#284 | Elizabeth Schlesinger; Estate Planning, Rights of Children, Wealth Transfer

About this episode

Vance continues his "Memento Mori" Halloween series with estate planning attorney Elizabeth Schlesinger of Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner in St. Louis. The conversation is a dense, practical walk through what actually happens to a person's wealth and decision-making authority after death or incapacity: the mechanics of death certificates, the three categories of assets (individually titled, trust-titled, beneficiary-designated), the difference between revocable/living trusts and probate-bound wills, and Missouri's lack of a "rule against perpetuities" that allows forever trusts. Schlesinger repeatedly frames estate planning as values transmission rather than pure asset transfer — clients decide not just who inherits, but when and under what conditions, effectively "passing on your values around wealth to future generations." She covers child guardianship (a recommendation in a will, not a binding directive), incapacity determinations (which can differ for financial vs. medical decisions), and the emotional/cultural discomfort many families have discussing money and mortality — arguing that open communication while people are alive prevents blindsided, high-stakes decisions after a crisis. The back half goes deep on tax mechanics: the ~$12M/$24M lifetime gift-and-estate tax exemption, 40% tax on amounts above it, "estate freeze" strategies using irrevocable trusts, minority discount valuations for fractional gifts, and the step-up-in-basis rule that resets capital gains basis at death — creating a real tension between minimizing estate tax (favoring lifetime gifting) and preserving the step-up (favoring holding assets until death). She closes on why she chose estate planning as a specialty and the personal, "quarterback of the family's legal life" nature of the work.

“Missouri as well as several other states recognize what's called no contest clauses, which you can put in your will or trust to essentially say that if you contest to the provisions of my estate plan and you lose, you're cut out.”

“How can you impact it from beyond the grave?”

“It's like a, a little control freak to be determining who inherits what and when after your death. But a lot of people have certain stipulations that they wanna put on inheritance.”

Key moments

• **[00:01:44–00:03:38]** Death certificates: which assets require an "original" with a raised seal, and how the document is actually generated (physician attestation, funeral home assistance, delays with autopsies).
• **[00:06:02–00:07:50]** The philosophical hook: a dead person "controlling" the world through estate terms — passing values, not just assets, via conditions on inheritance.
• **[00:09:44–00:10:52]** Why legal marriage status matters enormously — 1,200 federal benefits (pension survivorship, Social Security, medical decision authority) flow from the legal designation alone.
• **[00:12:22–00:14:50]** Missouri has no rule against perpetuities — trusts can run forever, contrasted with states' 360-year perpetuity limits and Disney-copyright-style extension analogies.
• **[00:29:17–00:29:58]** You cannot legally bind child guardianship in a will in Missouri — it's only a "recommendation" the probate court usually (not always) follows.
• **[00:38:20–00:42:04]** No-contest clauses ("if you're gonna shoot at the king, don't miss") — voided in Florida but enforceable in Missouri, and how they signal capacity/lack of undue influence.
• **[00:51:37–00:54:37]** The $12M/$24M lifetime exemption, 40% tax above it, and the special (unexplored) exemption for qualified-use farmland — directly relevant to Vance's ag-audience farmland-inheritance question.
• **[00:54:49–00:57:26]** Estate freeze strategy: gifting appreciating assets now (e.g., $1M of stock that becomes $3M) to lock in a lower taxable value and use minority-interest valuation discounts.
• **[01:00:56–01:06:25]** Step-up in basis at death vs. carryover basis on lifetime gifts — the core tension driving whether to gift now or hold until death, and how tax law "upheaval" every administration keeps reshaping the calculus.

Notable quotes

“If you're gonna shoot at the king, don't miss basically.”

“Individuals can pass about $12 million of assets... without incurring any transfer tax... amounts that exceed that exemption are subject to tax at 40%.”

“It's a little control freak to be determining who inherits what and when after your death.”

“Assets that are individually held get their basis reset at death, it's called the step up in basis.”