VCP: T Chevéz Mathews on the election & the new American progress aesthetic

Guest [00:00:00] And then just recently I was kinda like, I'm gonna be more disciplined about this and I'm gonna listen to the whole discography of somebody like Miles Davis or something and treat it like a book where I like would actually sit and listen all the way through and then go on to the next thing. And so that way I wasn't just like, yeah, just doing shuffle all the time.

Vance Crowe [00:00:17] I did that and I, I did it with Vampire Weekend.

Guest [00:00:20] Okay.

Vance Crowe [00:00:21] And I, all of a sudden was like, this is like musical drugs. This is like, they're like, by doing this as an album, I find myself getting into the rhythm of whatever it was that they're doing. And it was way deeper than like, oh, I'm just constantly listening to all of my favorite songs that I can think of. And I'm, I think there's something really important to this.

Guest [00:00:44] Yeah. I mean, music is, is, is important. And I think it, it affects people in ways they don't really even maybe recognize. But, but yeah, if you're intentfully listening, it's very different than just kind of casually listening.

Vance Crowe [00:01:00] I had a, an interesting experience in that I went for the last few years where I really, I went from being like a kid that loved having music around all the time, or young guy to, I don't want music around at all. And my wife like was like, this was not the person I married. Like this was not the deal I made. Because anytime she'd turn on music, I'd be like, turn it off. I can't handle it. Then I went on the ketogenic diet and I lost a bunch of weight and all of a sudden when I would listen to music, I could hear the music in a way that was pleasing to me. And it was, it is like super bizarre.

Guest [00:01:32] Interesting. And

Vance Crowe [00:01:33] That's what then led me to albums. And then that led me to being like, oh my gosh, this is like a drug. Because it's, it's like listening to something that gets me in a different mind space. And I think there was something to, like, whatever was going on with my own blood chemistry was, was really keeping me from being able to spot patterns that make music enjoyable.

Guest [00:01:54] Interesting. That reminds me, and I don't know if it's at all related, but you know how they were saying, and I think JD Vance had said this maybe on like the Rogan podcast or something, but like, how basically do, well he wasn't talking about diet, I don't think specifically, but like how people with like more testosterone tend to end up being more conservative. And I wonder if testosterone and hormones affects how you maybe interface with music. I don't know.

Vance Crowe [00:02:21] It seems almost certain to me. I thought that same thing when I heard him talking about it, it seems entirely certain to me that that not only would, does it impact like, can I hear new music? Like, 'cause music is all pattern spotting

Guest [00:02:34] In

Vance Crowe [00:02:34] This very subtle way. Right? I don't wanna be reductionist about it. Right. There's something else going on. There's like lyrics and there's the melody,

Guest [00:02:41] But

Vance Crowe [00:02:41] There's, for me it was, I, my body could handle the new energy being put into it in a way that I could do something with it. Whereas for the, after I had a child and I put on a bunch of weight and I was just like, barely hanging on. Right. Like you do when you're a new dad. And like, I, I just shut out music entirely 'cause it was not pleasing to me at all.

Guest [00:03:03] I, I wonder though, like, 'cause my wife and I used to listen to a lot of mu and that's how we kind of, before we got married, we bonded over. But over time, like, 'cause we, you know, we were into like all sorts of stuff, but at that time I was listening to a lot of like punk and electronic stuff and, and she, after we had kids, she could not listen to noise or punk anymore. Like it just drove her crazy. And I didn't know if maybe it was like overstimulation. And so just like hearing that stuff, which is like, I can't handle it. So she went way softer with music. And I actually don't listen to like, any punk music anymore either. But yeah, maybe more experimental stuff. But I still like hard stuff. I still like metal and everything, but I, I also wonder, I don't know, I I was just kind of chalked it up to maybe I'm just getting older and so my tastes have changed. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:03:52] The plasticity of your brain, I've definitely heard it like, as you get older it's harder for you to spot those patterns. So like new music doesn't feel as comfortable.

Guest [00:04:00] Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't listen to nearly as much new music, but I, and this is where I've had conversations with folks who are younger too, just to maybe make sure it's not just an aging thing, but like, it seemed like music got really stale for like, I don't know, like it didn't really seem to evolve a lot after the two thousands. You know, there was some interesting stuff that was being made in like the 2010s, but it didn't feel like pop. Like if you listen to Britney Spears Toxic Today, it sounds like it could have been released today. And that song came out like in, I don't know, 2002 or something. And, and I don't, maybe it's like production and technology, but it sounds the same. Like you're, it doesn't sound old, like, but if you think about it like that was 20 years ago. If you're like, it'd be like if you're in the eighties and you're listening to something in the sixties, completely different sounds in all fronts, right? It would be unrecognizable. But today music is not like that. Like

Vance Crowe [00:04:57] I think that the, the environment for the competition around music really changes. So I went to Seton Hall University and they had a radio station there that back in the day was hugely popular because it was where if you could get your music on, I think it was called K or WSHU. And if you could get your music on there, then all these people in Brooklyn could hear it. And so it was really avant-garde, but there weren't that many other stations that were playing it. So there was like, can you as a radio station differentiate yourself who your DJs are, their own interest in music and creativity and, and now the centralization of it has to have really altered the landscape for the competitive nature of art.

Guest [00:05:41] Yeah, it's, it's interesting we're having this discussion too, because the pop music, it seemed very stale for a long time and then all of a sudden, not to say that there wasn't good stuff coming out, but it didn't seem to evolve at all. And just because I think they've like kinda like nailed the, the formula or something. And so why veer from that? But now with this whole Diddy thing, like the industry is collapsing and so I also kind of wonder if like pop music is going to collapse as well. What

Vance Crowe [00:06:15] Do you mean it's collapsing?

Guest [00:06:16] Well, like the whole industry is corrupt and pretty vile and, and so it just, it like with, it just seems like the industry is falling apart now. Like there's like, you don't need and you haven't for a while, but you don't really need like the middleman anymore. But then also like all of these, like, I don't know, I, I think like the Diddy thing, seeing this kind of industry kind of, you know, crumbling because of the, the corruption and people just feeling like cattle and not having the, the rights to their music. I, I think it, it feels like that industry is becoming obsolete or at least the in institution is, is falling apart. And so I think that's gonna change pop music because people don't want to deal with that anymore and those channels are gonna be less desirable.

Vance Crowe [00:07:08] So when you say the Diddy thing, like, I've followed this because I think there's something really important culturally that's going on there, but when I talk with my friends, they're like, I don't know, I didn't follow it at all. He got in trouble. What is the Diddy thing?

Guest [00:07:22] I mean, just him being like the Epstein of like the music scene. I mean it seems like he was, it seems like he was probably a fed and trafficking people, you know, using dirt on people from these crazy parties that he was throwing since the nineties. I mean, he said apparently he's got footage of everybody since like 95 or something, you know, at these. And everyone went to these parties like, you know, Barack Obama, you know, Kamala bunch of, you know, not just politicians obviously like entertainers and, and and actors. But yeah, I mean he's, he, it just see it, see it's weird to see that there's like these kind of Epstein type of people in all these different industries and they're all getting busted for whatever reason. I don't know. I'm not sure why. Now maybe people are trying to protect their interests and like they're the fall guy.

Vance Crowe [00:08:13] What's interesting to me about this is, this is all just conjecture 'cause it's not like we've seen these, like even one of the videos leak where we're like, see that is that, and now you can extrapolate that this happened to all these other people. It's just like, it appears as though there's

Guest [00:08:30] A lot of anecdotes of people who are like, yeah, I saw some stuff and I, you know, I'm not never came back. I mean there's a lot of guys who's been speaking out about Diddy for a long time, but it seemed like he had immunity and, and that was just like the way the industry was, you know? Yeah. After one o'clock things get crazy, you know, so people just kind of put up with it. But there's guys who didn't mess with Diddy, you know, like I think 50 was one of those guys. Katt Williams was always railing on Diddy for stuff. But yeah, I think people just thought it was normal and that was just the industry.

Vance Crowe [00:09:02] And do you think this was his like mechanism for staying at the top of, of the pop music world?

Guest [00:09:09] Seems like it. Yeah. I mean it was one way. I mean, it might have also just been like an evil person, but yeah, I mean definitely had control and then especially he's got dirt on people, then he can manipulate things even more. Like, oh hey, now you owe me. So

Vance Crowe [00:09:22] It's also interesting that like, you know, these are videos presumably of like sexual acts

Guest [00:09:27] And

Vance Crowe [00:09:28] How much that being the like achilles heel of so many people, right? Like, like that whatever it is that it's, it's being seen having sex in whatever way with whoever is enough to allow a person to be completely controlled. Alright, we're gonna get back to the interview with Tyler in just a second and he is gonna finish up some of his thoughts on the whole craziness with the P Diddy stuff, but we don't stay there very long. In fact, we get into this concept he calls the American progress aesthetic, which is really all about how the world is feeling more hopeful and more excited about what we can build going to Mars inventing new things. It is a really fantastic conversation, but I wanted to take a couple moments just to talk a little bit about, you know, why do I sound so different? I just got done with a retreat this weekend and I did a lot of talking. I think I picked up a cold. So that's, if you're wondering why my voice sounds so funny. Also, I'm really excited about the holiday season for Legacy Interviews. If you are new to the podcast, Legacy Interviews are where I sit down with your loved ones to record their life stories so that future generations not only can hear those stories, but what we do here that's so special is that we help your loved ones to relax, to forget that the cameras are here and to allow them to really show up as they are to laugh as you know them, to be emotional and to share things that they really deeply care about.

Vance Crowe [00:10:59] And that's what we do that's so special. So if you would love to capture your loved one, go to Legacy Interviews dot com and fill out the contact form From there, one of our team will help set up a meeting between you and me and we can chat about who is your loved one, what is it that you're hoping to capture, and which package is right for you. From there, we will send you a gift package for you to be able to give your loved one. And it does everything from explaining what should you wear, what is the day gonna be like? And it has all these great thought starter questions. Who was your best friend growing up? How did you handle a rough situation at work? Just the kinds of questions that get people thinking and actually gets them pretty excited about their legacy interview. And then after we do the legacy interview, it takes us about three to four weeks and we will send you your video that you can watch with your family if you sign up to do a legacy interview. We still have some times in early December that if you got the interview guest here, we could potentially have that all set for you to watch with your family over the holidays. So if you're considering doing that, go to Legacy Interviews dot com. Alright, let's head back to the conversation with Tyler and his thoughts on the American progress aesthetic.

Guest [00:12:16] Well, it must be pretty foul too because like no one really cares about gay stuff anymore. And so like now maybe an artist has a, a, you know, an identity that they have to preserve and so they can't be seen as like a degenerate or something. So it makes me just kind of wonder like what kind of like foul acts were happening and because like we already know, like Hollywood's crazy does a bunch of like, you know, crappy, you know, dirty stuff anyway, so like, what was it, it must have been really kind of degenerate for people to like be like, no, this can't be released. You know? Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:12:47] I mean I can understand with the Weinstein stuff that, that you'd be like, Hey, there are women that their mystique or their image is that they're, you know, something beautiful and, and by really putting these women in terrible positions and then having them say like, yes, I'm willing to make this trade, that, that would make, that would ruin the, the magic on on screen. So you'd say like, but like rappers and stuff, like, they must have really been doing dark shit for that to be something that would allow you to control them.

Guest [00:13:19] It it must be, I mean, you know, I I would, I would say also for rappers, like there is a strong masculine culture within rap, right? So I think if you did gay stuff, that is probably gonna hurt people's image, right? So that makes sense from the rapper side of things, but I also just wonder maybe there's just like a lot of manipulation happening and that's probably where it gets dark is like, you know, maybe it wouldn't matter if, you know so and so did something with someone else, but the, the way it's maybe set up is maybe dark. And that's probably where it gets weird.

Vance Crowe [00:13:53] And so where does this lead, do you think that there is gonna come a day when we find out what happened with these Epstein tapes, with Diddy tapes? Or is this just like, I don't know, like how, how does this go?

Guest [00:14:05] I don't know. We got Trump in office. He says he was gonna release some stuff with Epstein at least. So I, I have no idea. It could, it could also just be, we just completely, you know,

Vance Crowe [00:14:14] Memory Holy memory.

Guest [00:14:15] Holy yeah. And we just forget and we're like, okay, yeah, we already knew Diddy suck. Anyway, moving on. You know,

Vance Crowe [00:14:20] You know, speaking of memory holding, I have found that people do not remember that when Trump got into office that cities burned. Like people are like, nah, that didn't happen. I was just with some people from California this weekend, and they're like, I don't think that happened. I'm like, no, you could hear the, the shit from my house where I was living the first time. Like, there were like, it got bad.

Guest [00:14:42] Yeah. People

Vance Crowe [00:14:43] Do not remember that at all.

Guest [00:14:45] It is really weird and I don't know what that is. I'm like, is there a spell cast over us? Or like, is technology just, you know, making us so brain rott that we can't remember something longer than a year past? Like, people literally don't remember. Like yeah, Trump's first four years. I mean, you know, even here I have people, you know, people are now like, oh, we're gonna lose all of our rights, all this stuff. I'm like, guys, like, he's already been president. Like none of that stuff happened before. Like why would it happen this time?

Vance Crowe [00:15:14] I remember him walking from the White House to the church that's like outside the, the White House grounds and them like there being dangers that it was gonna burn down and like, oh yeah, DC like I had friends living in DC K Street had all their windows busted out and you don't hear anybody talking about that. And that was my first thought is like, oh, if he gets elected, I wonder which cities will burn and how will that work? Totally.

Guest [00:15:38] Yeah. No, I thought the exact same thing. I was like, if Trump wins, we're gonna see a lot of these cities burn and and I thought it'd be worse than before. And then it just seems like the energy is just not there. Like there people are like, oh, there's a vibe shift. And I'm like, no, I think this is like a timeline shift. Like this is so different for whatever reason. I think there's a few reasons why, but like I think that the, the left that just lost the energy, like, you know, there's the protests that were set up, you didn't really hear anything about 'em, there weren't very many, I didn't hear about any cities burning. I saw some riots, but like then they got broken up by the police and everyone just kinda like walks away with their heads down. And I'm like, this was not the case. You know, in 2016 through all the 2010s, like there's just a total different energy.

Vance Crowe [00:16:29] I think that part of this has to do with the way the Israeli Hamas situation broke, where the left all of a sudden was like, we are not supporting you if you, you have to be on the side of Hamas on this one, or at least the Palestinians. And so the left, which traditionally used that as like a, a way for them to consolidate power it all of a sudden shredded their power. And now like that, that group of people, it's hard. I heard Rogan saying it's hard to go from, we are trying to preserve, you know, dead babies and, and cities turned to rubble to like this o you know, the Trump pushing back on that.

Guest [00:17:07] Yeah. So there's a fracturing that happened there because they couldn't, like, the, the more, you know, in institutionalized version of the left there had to stick with the Israeli side, whereas like their followers were, were more on the Palestinian. And so there was a fracture there that really hurt the left from like the elite standpoint. And so yeah, it just, it was just, it started to crumble there. 'cause it was kind of like, yeah, they were fighting against each other all of a sudden. So that definitely, I think maybe woke some people up even to say like, oh, hey, maybe maybe these people are a little more entrenched with dark money than we thought, and that maybe caused some questions

Vance Crowe [00:17:47] And maybe people funding the protests and and to of Trump when he first got elected. Now, don't want to give those people piles and piles of money and, and stacks of bricks to throw through windows,

Guest [00:17:58] Right? Yeah. I think the money's gone. Yeah. They're not getting funded anymore and so there's no money, so there's no one, there's nobody there to kind of rally the troops. And so it's just, yeah, I mean, you know, I think people are just tired of all this stuff in general. Like it's, I mean, how long can you stay furious? You know? Like it's it's not very healthy. It's not very fun. And that's like most of the people I talked to, you know, that had flipped sides over time, which is like, it was demoralizing and nothing ever really changed.

Vance Crowe [00:18:30] Yeah. And that was the promise of Biden, right? Biden was coming in, being like, all right, all right, all right, we're gonna bring it back to normal. Everything's gonna go back. And instead it was, as soon as he got in, things got turned way up way hotter.

Guest [00:18:43] Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, the inflation thing I think was a big thing for maybe more normal type of people. They were like, I just want, you know, minorities and, and Normies were just like, I don't wanna have to pay for a lot of, you know, expensive groceries anymore. But,

Vance Crowe [00:18:58] But I mean, if you're being honest, the, the Trump was the one that kicked off the inflation. He's the one that during COVID was like, Hey guys, we can turn on this printer and send everybody checks. And I mean, like you could, you could say, well, he had his hand forced because the, the left was shutting down the economy,

Guest [00:19:15] But

Vance Crowe [00:19:15] Like inflation started before Biden and Right. And then it got blamed on him. Yeah.

Guest [00:19:20] Well, I, no one ever looks really that far beyond like, what's happening in the very moment. So, but you know, I think like culturally, I just think that there is also this thing happening where, and I'm trying to think of what, where this came from really, but like my sense now is that there's like this really in, in intense like pro-America vibe that's going on where people are like excited. They're like, we want to, we want to, we wanna launch rockets, we want to get to Mars, we want build ai. You know, there's this very like American progress aesthetic that's been coming up and you know, with all of the, and I think a lot of it's been accelerated, no pun intended by the, by the Silicon Valley types who have like transitioned over to being red over the last few years because, you know, they're pro progress, pro technology innovation and the left was like deceleration. And you know, you've got all these accelerationist guys, they don't wanna be held down by this and they wanna see America flourish. And so there's this big push for like, you know Yeah. To see progress happening. And that was with what, and that's what the Wright wanted. And so there's this te there's this teaming up basically of, of Silicon Valley and the right, and, and it's exciting. You know, it's, I mean, I think everyone knows this already, but Elon Musk played a huge role in that. And it's, he brought back this like American aesthetic of greatness because I think the, the rocket coming down and getting caught by the, the, you know, little chopsticks or whatever they call it, that was huge.

Guest [00:21:03] And I think that was also a cultural turning point where they're like, holy crap, like this guy did it. And

Vance Crowe [00:21:08] Yeah, it's just not, it's not just rockets going up and down. It's not just putting a car up there, like all those things. Somebody on the other side would be like, wow, we were kind of already doing that. Right? Like, he just took it a little further catching a rocket falling out of the sky. Nobody was doing that. And it's like, so mind boggling that it looks like something you would only see in like a Christopher Nolan film or something, it seems like beyond anything that you could have imagined. And then they just did it right in front of us.

Guest [00:21:34] Yeah, I mean, it makes you feel proud to be an American. And, and also it's cool about it is that it was an entrepreneur, like, what's more American than some guy an immigrant, you know, coming and making America great in this way where yeah, it feels like the sixties going to the moon, you know? And I think people want that. They want the pride of being an American not always feeling guilty about being an American. And so, and

Vance Crowe [00:21:57] I think people had given up on the idea that we could do great things, right? It was like, eh, you just can't do great things anymore. And then you start going back and being like, and maybe we didn't do great things before. Maybe we didn't land on the moon. Maybe none of these things were, you know, you start questioning like, if we can't do it now, if it takes longer to build the Golden Gate Bridge today, then it did before they had the internet, maybe we really can never get back there.

Guest [00:22:21] Yeah. I think that's, and I think a lot of it, yeah, there's, there's probably a few things at play. I mean, I think regulation does play a big problem there. The bureaucratic state really slows all this stuff down, discourages it, and then, you know, 'cause yeah, people were like, you know, teal says like, you know, there was just like, you know, we, instead of like having flying cars, we had 140 characters, whatever it was, but like, yeah, I mean, everyone was just building like advertising platforms for like 10 years and yeah, it wasn't interesting or exciting. Some guys got rich, cool, Uber exists great, you know, like, yeah, those are nice, you know, little perks of modernity, but like nothing to rally behind,

Vance Crowe [00:22:58] You know, actually you just sparked an idea in my, I mean, like, the, the, they, you're right, they were selling attention, right? Yeah. We created these machines to sell as much attention as we could, and all of a sudden Elon Musk made a place where if you, if your attention was worthwhile, he could put it to work. Yeah. Like, if your attention on how to build this thing, you know how to do it. Like all of a sudden there's a place for you. And by the way, he's gonna cut out all the bureaucracy, like who doesn't wanna work in a place where they get to come into work and like make things move forward. But most of the people I know, including myself when I was at a corporation, 95% of your time is spent just surviving the bureaucracy. And if you're lucky, you get 5% time to build anything at

Guest [00:23:42] All. Right? Yeah. And I think that's the exciting part right now is like now, you know, everyone wanted to build some like app and now everyone's like, well, no, I wanna build a rocket. And so, which is way more exciting and probably beneficial to humanity in general. And so, yeah, so you have this, this like pride in America as being this great country, and I mean, it really, it, it does drive where the world is going. And so that feels exci. Like, so what now we're tapping into is, you know, not just American excellence, but like, we're also carrying on this tradition of like the western, all of western culture, you know, like we are now bringing that forward, like this huge lineage, thousands of years of advancement of western, of western civilization is now being brought back and like we're carrying the torch forward again. And that's, I think that's what's most exciting. And that's why I do think this, this 250 year anniversary is actually gonna be really important culturally for America. And, and there's folks like Lomez who are, you know, on Twitter or on X who are talking about this and like, they're like, you guys can't screw this up. Like this is aesthetically and culturally very important and, and if it's done right, it's gonna like set the stage and the tone for like where America and the world is going. And so I think that's really an exciting thing to be a part of. You're gonna have, like,

Vance Crowe [00:25:10] I find myself being a little embarrassed, like as you say that I'm like, I guess I didn't even realize we're at the 250 year anniversary.

Guest [00:25:18] Yeah. I forgot too until someone brought it up and I'm like, oh wow, that's so what is that? In a couple years? So it's, or not even a couple years. But yeah, I mean that's what's gonna be really interesting is you have this reenergized sense of what it means to be an American. You've got this 250 year anniversary coming up, you're gonna have World Cup Olympics in America. I mean, there's like a moment for us to like really shine as like, you know, just driving the world's like, you know, just like the energy is gonna be insane and you got a Trump America, which you know, already this very pro-American, you know, vibe to the campaign. I mean, it could be really fun and exciting re regenerate.

Vance Crowe [00:26:02] What do you think about that? Because I think that the, when people look at the world of like, what happened when Trump got elected, it depends on what bubble you're

Guest [00:26:10] In. Yeah, sure. Yeah. That

Vance Crowe [00:26:11] Like, 'cause I think there are a whole lot of people that are like, yeah, everybody I know was down, they were, you know, upset. They were, they're worried, they think, you know, these bad things are gonna happen and then you see the other side and they're sharing memes and it is excitement and you're watching Bitcoin's price explode, and you're seeing people be like, I would happily sign up to go taking acts to the, to the federal bureaucracy.

Guest [00:26:33] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:26:33] So like there's very definitely whichever bubble you're living in is what you see as the future. Yeah,

Guest [00:26:40] A hundred percent. Like yeah. To be fair, yeah. And not everyone shares that kind of American, you know, optimistic viewpoint. And, and I'm, this is, you know, I wasn't a huge Trump guy either from a policy perspective, but I think that even aesthetically what he's doing for the country is very important because we are like in our fall of Rome era, you know, like it felt like we were in a country in decline and you're like, wow, okay, I'm coming to grips with like living in the fall of Rome or something. And you know, and population de decline. It just felt like you're like, dang, this kind of sucks, but now you're like, oh, well maybe, maybe this is the chance to rebound. And maybe it is, that'd be maybe a first in history for an empire to turn back around. Maybe we're going into our Pac Romana era and we're still in the decline. I don't know, but it feels really good right now. And so yeah, like I, you know, I do feel like it should be, you know, you know, I wanna make sure that I'm like cognizant that, and not everyone feels the same way culturally, but I think this is the op I guess for me, like, I'm thinking like in a hundred years from now, how will people look back at this? And I think it'll be looked back at as a, a moment of prosperity. And so I don't even really care about, I think it looks, looks like,

Vance Crowe [00:27:56] Like if we go back to 2020, there were very few people that were like, and now a new century is dawning when, when Biden got elected, right? It was like, all right, maybe now things won't burn. Right. Whereas you look around at the world now, people are like, we have the potential to completely reshape things so that the future can be, you know, let loose so that prosperity can, can flourish. And I don't, I didn't, I don't remember that from 2020, but there also might have been the bubble I was in,

Guest [00:28:25] Right? Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely in a bubble as well, and I been becoming maybe even increasingly so in a bubble because it seems like a lot of the people I knew before that were more progressive have become more right leaning. And so, but I, I don't know, I still, I still stick to it that I feel like this will be an overall good era, and that's what I'm hopeful for that will like wreak, that'll kickstart America back to being this kind of cultural leader for the world. I mean, even look at some of the news headlines that have come out where like, you know, they're like, oh, well, you know, we're up to, we'll come to the table to talk about the end of the Ukrainian Russian war. Like, we're gonna come to the table to kick out Hamas. Like all this, the guy was in the, wasn't even, he was president-elect for two days, and already people were like coming to him saying, Hey, all right, we're ready to talk. You know? And that's exciting. I mean, I don't think anyone really wants to be in these war anymore. And so I'm just, I'm just heavily optimistic that this will actually be a net positive for everyone involved. Even for the folks who think that he's, you know, going to ruin America. I think they're gonna hopefully look back and say, no, actually this was good. Maybe they don't even like everything he does, and I'm not gonna like everything he does either. But I feel like there is a, a, this is a powerful moment because America was, was in decline. And I know a lot of people were like, well, we shouldn't vote for him because we want unity, and if we have him, it's gonna cause disunity on the left. And I, but that's what we got kind of with Biden, it's like, well, okay, so we got this guy in here and nothing really happened, you know, no one really felt more optimistic about America.

Guest [00:30:02] And so,

Vance Crowe [00:30:03] And it was as clear as it could possibly be that the president does not run the country.

Guest [00:30:08] That was, so that became very obvious to me.

Vance Crowe [00:30:09] Like everyone had to, and I remember I was talking with some of my friends from California who were, you know, Biden fans, definitely voting for Harris. And I was like, yeah, but let's talk real quick, like, who is running the country right now? And they're kind of like, well, you know, like, like

Guest [00:30:24] We forgot he existed. He got memory hold.

Vance Crowe [00:30:26] Right, exactly. And the, and the, they were like, you know, well if something comes up, the, you know, whoever is right behind them will take care of it. But like there, it's, it's the bureaucratic state that just the inertia of, of whoever is in these unelected positions running the country. And now it is undeniable whether you're on the left or the right, there was nobody at the top there. No. Or if they were, they were in the shadows and not at the forefront.

Guest [00:30:50] Yeah. I mean, it did, it that was, that was great because it did help people realize that the present wasn't really calling the shots and things could be run without him. And that's what I'm hopeful for and that's why I think people are excited about the Elon thing is because hopefully, and will he be successful? I don't know. But I think everyone is kind of, I shouldn't generalize everyone, but I think it'll, I think most people don't want a bureaucratic state, you know, because that's where you get Yeah. You don't get progress with bureaucracy.

Vance Crowe [00:31:20] There's nobody that would look at the structure of the USDA and be like, yeah, you know what, we need some more. I mean, some people will say, we need more regulations. Sure. Or we need more, you know, people over here. But they don't understand that like, oh, the whole thing keeps growing exponentially. The the wider the circle gets, the faster the circle can get wider. And like, this is something that when you, when you go and look at what's been built, nobody says like, oh, this is an optimized system. It's all, it's just insane inertia. Yeah.

Guest [00:31:50] There's nothing excited to be proud about, but like how big we built the regulatory or bureaucratic state, there's no sense of like, pride of being an American because we have the most, you know, careful country, you know, and, and it negatively affects people. I mean,

Vance Crowe [00:32:06] I'm, I'm super suspicious of RFK Junior, like he's got a whole bunch of positions that I think like these could be very dangerous. But he was on a stage the other day and he was like, yes, you know, my first act on day one is gonna move, is gonna be to move HHS Health and Human Services to Guam. And I was like, yeah,

Guest [00:32:26] I

Vance Crowe [00:32:26] Like that idea. Why don't we move them to Guam, move the USDA to the middle of Nebraska. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not talking about like Omaha, I'm saying like middle of Nebraska.

Guest [00:32:35] That'd be great.

Vance Crowe [00:32:36] Kearney Nebraska should be the new head of the USDA.

Guest [00:32:40] I love that idea actually.

Vance Crowe [00:32:42] And then, because what people don't know if you haven't lived in DC is that there are, is an entire class, several classes of people, and they function as like a theocratic state or something, right. Where, where they, they can continue to live there. And I've said this before, the, the people that are running the bureaucracy are the people that they move to DC and then while their friends got married and had kids and then realized DC's too expensive, so they left DC so then they're there a little bit longer and then the new crop moves in and the same thing happens. And so that those people that either didn't have children or maybe were gay and weren't going to get married, they now become the ruling class in DC and it becomes a massive part of the bureaucracy. And like if you, like, if you move those offices out of DC, you will crack that system. You will smash it because all of the networks that are set up there to make the system run in ways that don't show up on an org chart can't move to Kearney Nebraska.

Guest [00:33:45] Right. Yeah, no, I, I love the idea. I think it's great. Yeah. And it makes DC less, yeah, less. No, yeah. No one's gonna want to, there's nothing sexy about moving to Carney, Nebraska, you know, if you, you're career climbing. So Yeah. I I think it's a brilliant move and I get Yeah, and I agree with you. Like I'm not totally on board with everything that RFK and Trump, you know, even wanna do. But that being said, I think that this is an important move. It just looks like to be superficial, it also just like looked cool. Like you had this team of people RFK joining with Trump and then the JD Vance kinda like teal side. And then you had Tulsi the

Vance Crowe [00:34:29] Big Ramaswamy

Guest [00:34:30] Like, yeah, Ron Paul coming back from the grave. Oh

Vance Crowe [00:34:34] Man, oh man, that was so wild. And to see these tweets where you're like, somebody's like, you know, maybe we should audit the Fed. And then Ron Paul popping up and being like, I'm here. And then, and then seeing Elon Musk be like, yeah, come on. And you're like, oh my God, this dream, this thing that we would've all said like quietly and, you know, hanging out with our buddies may actually happen.

Guest [00:34:56] Yeah. It's kind of cool. So like,

Vance Crowe [00:34:59] And we're gonna find out on day one whether or not he's gonna live up to promises and people may be crushed.

Guest [00:35:05] And

Vance Crowe [00:35:06] Like this gets brought up in my circles is like if he frees Ross Ulbricht, like

Guest [00:35:12] Oh yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:35:13] Like that, that will be one of the biggest moments. And, and potentially if he, if he exonerates Edward Snowden Yeah.

Guest [00:35:22] You

Vance Crowe [00:35:22] Know, if he then says like, I am pardoning these people and we're gonna bring him back, then you're gonna know, oh, the deep state is actually going to get crushed. Right. And we are going to see a new era begin

Guest [00:35:32] That. Yeah. Also, very symbolically important. If those, if those two things happen,

Vance Crowe [00:35:38] Do you think they will,

Guest [00:35:40] I think Ross will for sure.

Vance Crowe [00:35:43] For people that very likely know, he was the guy that built this website called Silk Road, which is where you were allowed to do commerce outside of the traditional system. And were they using Bitcoin there? Yeah. And, and like it was like people portray it as this like terrible dark place where they were trading

Guest [00:36:00] Children.

Vance Crowe [00:36:00] Yeah. Trading in children and murders. But like, the reality is, is there's nothing like that like that, that most of it was like, my grandmother can only survive if she gets these kinds of medication. I can only get that in Mexico. Hey, in this way I can, you know, keep my grandmother alive and, and other things.

Guest [00:36:16] Sure.

Vance Crowe [00:36:16] And like he, all he did was build the website. He was not putting contract hits out, he wasn't trading children and they gave him a life sentence without the possibility of parole. And only Trump when he came to the libertarian community said, I will free him. And if he does, then, then it's worth the price of admission. Whatever else happens, it's worth it.

Guest [00:36:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It, I mean the whole thing is crazy 'cause it, the people that were, you know, thrown in jail for actually doing, you know, things on Silk Road that were illegal, got less time than he did, and he didn't actually do anything illegal. So, you know, we don't throw the inventor of mail, you know, email into prison for, you know, building the protocol because we know bad things happen over email or something. Totally, totally crazy. So yeah, I mean there's this, all this opportunity for these symbolically important things to happen under this regime. And so that to me is very, I think just, it's just gonna be really interesting and it just sets the tone for where America is gonna go. And I think that's what people are optimistic about is like the breaking down of these institutions that we're basically corrupted. And so now it's like, yeah, we can be proud to be American again. I mean the, yeah, I just, just the energy online is like, and in person it's just so different. Like, it's really crazy. I mean, you would not have had, you know, college students throwing parties for, you know, Trump in 2016. Like no, everyone would've hid that. You know, I don't know if this is true or not if people are reading into this too much, but there was that football game where they're doing the Trump dance at the, at the end zone. And I'm like, no one would've done that. You know, like, this is so different. And, and so I think, yeah, people are just excited. There's just a new energy. And I think, I think we're gonna, I think we're gonna see not only some interesting progress innovation wise because of, you know, Elon kind of, and I'm, you know, Elon does some cool stuff.

Guest [00:38:17] I'm not like an Elon fanboy, but like he does good stuff. And, and so him driving the interest in like exploration and like real innovation is really important for America. And now that's driving more interest in those, in those fields. And so I just, it just feels like this is like going to be another peak American moment.

Vance Crowe [00:38:37] I think one of the biggest things that Musk could do is clear the way for more people that don't have his ability to break through, you know, like he was able to break through things now it'll make it easier for Right. New innovators that have many of the same engineering talents he has, but maybe doesn't know how to do, you know, how to, how to work with the government in the way that he did. I mean, he figured out how to both get government money and fight the government at the same time, which is mind boggling. Most people can't do that, but they could be inventing the next spaceship or the next, you know, way we interact with each other in some deeper way.

Guest [00:39:12] Yeah. And if the peop, if the public gets behind that, and then the, your bureaucrats follow and if there's a, you know, some moves to deregulate a bit, I mean, yeah, it's gonna open up a lot more and there'd be more incentivization to go into these spaces because Elon's already, you know, kind of laid out a path through, you know, basically risking a lot of, you know, his own personal wealth and maybe even ha safety to do this. So

Vance Crowe [00:39:36] Yeah, I think about the, the worst thing that could happen right now is if Donald Trump just doesn't wake up, you know, like some, some night he goes to bed and has a stroke in the middle of the night. It's 'cause no one would believe it. Yeah.

Guest [00:39:50] Oh yeah. No one would.

Vance Crowe [00:39:51] And like, so he must live, right? Like, because now to die would, would throw enormous amounts of of tumult into the country.

Guest [00:40:00] Yeah. Yeah. No, I it would, it would be really bad for America if he died or was assassinated. That would just be not good. Like, I, I have no idea where we go after that, you know, and we do have a strong figure with Vance, but it's not the same thing. Like it's not gonna, it would cause no one. Yeah, you're right. No one would believe it if he died of natural causes. This would, you know, everyone's gonna think is, is McDonald's burger was poisoned or something?

Vance Crowe [00:40:26] People talk about somebody in the, on the left trying to find a way to stop, you know, the inauguration. Do you foresee this or do you think they know they've been defeated and and we're gonna go all the way and

Guest [00:40:39] Yeah, I don't know. There's a couple takes. Yeah. In some ways it does feel like the, the energy's been completely zapped. And so either there's this realization and then 'cause you know, the, the institutional left has been kind of distancing themselves from the woke for a while now. And so I think that there's either this, there's gonna be a rebuilding of the party and maybe they more align with like the accelerationist types. Maybe there's like a left-leaning version of this. Ultimately the future feels like it's gonna be right leaning no matter what. And so maybe they realign in some sort of way or, or they continue to try and fight it. I mean, 'cause like, you know, if you're threatening to, you know, do a, a Malay style or, or even X style like cutting of, of jo of government jobs, there's a lot of people whose livelihoods are at stake and they're gonna fight tooth and nail to remain there. Especially deep state folks. No one's gonna want all that stuff, you know, dirty laundry aired. So there might be a huge shift to try and just, yeah, maybe there's an attempt to still kind of ruin this stuff. I'm sure there are people thinking that way, but at the same time it also feels, I don't know, it can go either way. It, it just, but definitely the energy is not there. Like cities aren't burning. And that's what I definitely thought was gonna happen. And it wasn't, it was like these pathetic kind of protests that happen that were easily broken up by police and you see guys just like, you know, Antifa guys with their heads down, like walking away.

Guest [00:42:11] And I'm like, oh, okay. That was it. You know? So, but what is the deep stake gonna do? I don't know. But yeah, I, it'll be interesting to see what happens here.

Vance Crowe [00:42:21] My, my mentor always talks about the reason you should pay attention to art is 'cause artists can see the future. Did artists foretell this, this election, do you think?

Guest [00:42:31] Yeah, I think so. I've been following this since like 2019 or so when it seemed like the avant-garde was going right or at least post left. And it was to me a huge signal. I thought it was gonna take a lot longer than it had been. I mean that was 2019 and now it's 2024. I thought it would be like at least 10, 15 years for this kind of stuff to like, you know, make its way into the mainstream and yet it's already here. And I'm like, wow, that was really fast. I guess you could say like the alt-right was like this proto version, but that wasn't really like the art scene. But it definitely influenced the art scene and, and culture in general. Like, you know, memeing culture really came out of, you know, the four chan side of things which have influenced the alt-right. And a lot of people came outta the alt-right. And I mean, the alt-right gets a bad rap and, and rightfully so. But it originally did start as a meme. It was really people just trolling and being transgressive. And then eventually like these things get taken seriously and then people would think that they're actual Nazis. So there was like some vile like stuff I don't like when the alt-right. But it originally didn't start off that way anyway, so that was like 2014 ish or so. And then you had this like slow movement of like, people being like, oh, well, you know, the left used to be this fun group of people who could make jokes and be vile and still like, you know, being part of the gag. And then they, it, you know, like, 'cause the left was like super cool with four chan in the beginning and troll culture and then they disa you know, they disavowed it and so it became a right thing and people were like, well we want the, you know, people, creative people tend just to follow where's the most freedom and you know, to express their creativity.

Guest [00:44:15] And so the the left kind of abandoned it in the 2010s. And so yeah, I think that's what was the slow progression until like around COVID and then you saw a lot of the artists that were on the cutting edge all of a sudden becoming more right-leaning and you're like, okay, this is very interesting to me. And then it just snowballed since then. And now to me it seems like all of the interesting art in music is coming from the right right now. Like all I know. I think another symbolic thing was like the, the like the whole brat summer thing, you know, that the, you know, Kamala campaign appropriated from Charli XCX, like that, that whole thing was totally manufactured. Like are

Vance Crowe [00:44:58] Familiar, are familiar with No, no, not at all. So,

Guest [00:44:59] So Charli XCX is like this pop star. She, she kind of came out like this hyper pop music genre in the 2010s, like really, you know, stylize, lots of production, like just hyper, hyper pop music and very like very hd, you know, glitzy. And it was an interesting kind of subculture or sub genre that evolved. And then, you know, Charli XCX is one of the names that became really big outta that scene. And, and then so the, the Kamala campaign, because it seems to be run by a bunch of like young millennials and, and Zoomers, it felt like were like, oh, brat, you know, this album from Charlie XX is cool. And that's when you saw the Green square with like the, like the fuzzy f you didn't see any of this? Nothing,

Vance Crowe [00:45:43] None of, I know I knew none of this.

Guest [00:45:45] Oh my gosh. It was, it was so obnoxious. Like, but like they were trying to like just become like culturally relevant. So like the campaign for Kaa, like had no, no like real aesthetic or like, there's no real solid brand or messaging. Like she would like flop. Like she would flip flop all the time. It seemed like

Vance Crowe [00:46:03] It was run by the, by the PR woman for Bud Light. Yeah. You know, like, like the person it

Guest [00:46:08] Just went all over the place. They had no defining, like no one can think of like, what was like one slogan she had? I have no idea. Like

Vance Crowe [00:46:14] Joy and happiness,

Guest [00:46:15] Joy and hap Yeah. At the end. But it wasn't that in the beginning. Like she kept kind of like flip-flopping and so she, so there was this very man, I guess this is when I realized like I'm like too online or something because like I couldn't escape this whole brat campaign. They did. So like, they were even like on the news stations, like, because it was so astro turfed, like her trying to be like tied in with this like cool Gen Z pop art. Although I think she's probably even like a millennial, but like, they tried to be tapped in with this like, you know, young crowd. And so they're like, oh, we're gonna take this really popular pop album called Brat from Charlie xx and we're gonna like say, oh, Kamala is brat. And that meant like, you know, fun and like doesn't care about what you think about her. And they tried to like, have this kind of like vibe on her that she's brat and what, you know. And so even like news stations were like saying, oh, like this is brat summer and they have to explain to their audience

Vance Crowe [00:47:03] Of

Guest [00:47:04] Boomers of like what it meant to be brat and like no one cares. It felt really fake and, and then like it got so oversaturated that it like, it like negatively impacted the term because everyone's like, like, no, no one wants it. Like don't say you're brat. It's just like

Vance Crowe [00:47:21] Annoying.

Guest [00:47:23] And to me like that can the campaign, you know, appropriating that. And then like Charlie xx even said on on X, like she's like, Brad Summer's over. But like to me, okay, so the reason why I'm going on on about this is that like, that represented to me like her and like Chappell Roan and all this stuff. Another like Z Gen Z artist, like they represent to me like the 2010s decadence and like this kind of like degenerate kind of culture. And with that being over to me, that signifies to me that like the 2010s is officially over. Like that, that style, that style of politics, that style of like aesthetics is over and like woke is symbolically dead. Like maybe it's not actually dead. Like, you know, there's still, I have friends who work in tech and they, they still have to be anonymous, but it's symbolically over and like that's gone. And like even the left is, like I said earlier, the left is distanced themselves from woke. Like that whole aesthetic and and style is over.

Vance Crowe [00:48:25] It's interesting that you're saying this 'cause like there was not beautiful art coming out of that, right? It was like one of the things that the left, at least the woke left was interested in was let's get rid of all the rules, right? There's there, let's just keep taking the guardrails off. And anytime you put in a rule it it that this doesn't help us. So it almost, you know, art that appropriating scribbles, right? Because rules, it's, it's beauty that happens within the rules or creativity that happens within the rules and conservatism. Is that right? Like, let's not change something unless we need to change something and there's something, I mean it seems to me like we probably will get really cool art coming outta this.

Guest [00:49:07] Oh yeah, I'm, I I definitely agree with that. I would say that they, they did get rid of some rules, but then they had their own other rules that really didn't make any sense or have like actual guard ra like they not nothing was anchored to Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:49:18] That's right. Because they were actually hyper rules. Specifically Hyper rules. Yeah, yeah, hyper

Guest [00:49:21] Rules. They were actually more ruley but like in a different way. And to me, like if that would've continued, we would've seen like what was the next thing beyond gender to deconstruct like humanity essentially. And I think that would've accelerated the transhumanism stuff. Whoa. And so

Vance Crowe [00:49:40] Say more about that. Okay, we're gonna take another quick break. We have just a few minutes left, but this is where Tyler is gonna talk about how when you have no religion, it actually leads to hyper religiosity. And it is a really insightful thinking and I think you're gonna enjoy it. But I wanted to quick mention Legacy Interviews. If you've been procrastinating this, you've known, ah, this is a loved one, a mentor, somebody special that I'd like to capture, then don't put it off any longer. Go to Legacy Interviews dot com, fill out the contact form and you and I can have a conversation about what you would hope to capture. The other thing is if a legacy interview isn't right for you, but you wanna support the show, one of the most important things you can do is to give us a five star review and definitely write some notes about what you you love about this podcast. We, in the last few weeks have been getting all kinds of letters and dms and it has been amazing. So thank you for putting that energy into encouraging me to keep going with the podcast, to keep growing it. And we've made some changes. I hope you love them. And I hope that will be reflected in these reviews. What happens with these reviews is that this is what shows people when they're looking around for a new podcast. If you're getting reviews, if you're getting positively rated, then Spotify, apple, all these places show other people, Hey, check this one out. And I can already tell from the downloads that because of your comments, because of your reviews, more and more people are seeing in that. And I am so grateful for it. It means so much to me. Alright, let's finish up by hearing some of Tyler's thoughts on hyper religiosity.

Guest [00:51:15] I just recently read CS Lewis's Space trilogy and which like the last one was called that Hideous Strength, which is a really popular one of the trilogy. And most people don't even know CS Lewis wrote a space trilogy.

Vance Crowe [00:51:27] I didn't know that.

Guest [00:51:28] Yeah, he like wrote a sci-fi and the last one came out in 19 8 48. I think that hideous strength did. But essentially, if you boil it down, it was essentially him saying, and, and this ties into another kind of topical thing, was that the elites essentially it created this like inner circle. It was like very kind of like, you know, insider outsider club. And they were tapping into science in a way where they thought that they were discovering a higher intelligence, and they were, which were called microbes. And so they had this, they were basically like deconstructing the human and just saying that it like, you know, we don't have to be tied to humanity anymore. And then there's a, there's higher level of intelligence that's now informing us on what a higher state of intelligence actually means and how humans can evolve. And so they had this like severed head that was being used as a medium for this higher intelligence to tell them like things that, you know, to, to give them intel. And so they were so wrapped up in being like scientist, like scientist sm as a religion. They, they were so pro rational, pro-science that they actually made it a religion. And like they had all these like crazy rules and, and you know, kind of religious like ceremonial aspects to it at, to, to like where one moment where this guy was like trying to like accel accelerate into the inner ring of this group of, of intellectuals that they said that you'd like stomp on a cross. And he was just kinda like, was like, this feels really weird. Like why would I even, he's like, you know, I don't believe in this stuff, but like, why would I have to do that?

Guest [00:53:01] You know? And anyway, this came out in 1948 and basically he even like says in the book like, this is coming like 70 years later and like, here we are 70 years later or so, and like we literally have a religion of science and like these weird rules, like we, they came into a to break down these oppressive religious rules and the moral majority, but instead they created their own. And you know, the reason why so many people started to abandon the woke stuff was because it was a religion without the opportunity for redemption. And that's what the book was talking about that came out in 1948 that he was, that Lewis was predicting that was gonna happen. And so it's funny that that book came out because it seems to be getting a little bit of a resurgence because then even like Tucker came on and was saying, you know, I think we got nuclear power from demons, you know, and he's actually not like, people are like, oh my God, that's so crazy. But he's actually not that far off. Like a lot of the people involved with like atomic technology, nuclear technology did actually practice like eastern mysticism, you know? And like, you know, even Oppenheimer called himself like, you know, the bringer of death, you know, like, which was the, was it Vishnu that had said that like in the, in the Vedas or something? But anyway, there's this like the sciences are not divorced from religion. Like the jet propulsion lab at NASA was started by Jack Parsons who was an occultist. And he started like, you know, all he was influenced by what's his face. I'm drawing blanks on all these names and I'm also like, rabbit trailing really hard here, but like all kinds of occultic practices, Aleister Crowley had influenced Jack Parsons and that's what he literally started JPL.

Guest [00:54:47] And he was getting information from dark powers, you know, like, so, and a lot of these guys, Niels Bohr, like we're we're getting ideas and dreams, you know? And like, you know, it's, it's so fascinating how tied into the occult or Christianity, a lot of science and technology is, I mean Tesla, all these people were tapped into something and you know, and even artists, they talk about how like they become a vessel and they're like just kind of like, and yeah, like you were saying earlier, they're, they're prophets. Like, they're literally prophets. And like, that seems weird to us 'cause we think of like, you know, some prophet from the Bible, but that's like what a prophet is. Like, they're seeing things in part that no one else is seeing and they're, they're bringing it, they're pulling it down from the divine and they're giving it to the people and, but usually in a poetic way. And so this is, and this is what is exciting to me, I guess, is that for most of human history, the world had been enchanted. Like we believed in the divine, we believed in, in spiritual powers, we believed in the power of art. And not to just be some sort of like, you know, beautiful thing, but also like a prophetic thing. And we're start, I think we're starting to see that it happen again. And we're, the world has basically kind of gotten sick of this postmodern void that we've fallen into where they were like, oh, we'll abandon, we'll we'll abolish all of the rules. Everything is possible, but because now everything is possible, nothing is possible. And, and it resulted in nothing.

Guest [00:56:19] And that's where this whole meaning, meaning crisis started happening. And so what happens is people start to fill the void again with spirituality. And it could be paganism, it could be Christianity, but we're seeing that happen on both sides. Like you are seeing a return to paganism in some ways. And I think in the UK it's like one of the fastest growing religion is paganism.

Vance Crowe [00:56:42] Yeah. The last time you were on, we talked about this in, in terms of like how many women are into astrology

Guest [00:56:47] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:56:47] And how many witches there are, Wicca. Yeah. I think one of the things that frightens me about the right embracing religion and it becoming a part of the new pop culture, which I would include Tucker Carlson in

Guest [00:57:02] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:57:02] Is when you start talking about things like demons, it makes it very easy for there to be an us and a them and demons are not far from vermin, right? They are, they are the thing that you can say they are other and they are so much and other, they're pedophiles. They are these terrible things that are, it's not just that we could go out and stamp them out like we are now morally obligated to,

Guest [00:57:28] Hmm,

Vance Crowe [00:57:28] This moves very quickly down a rolls down a path where, where cultures can do evil things.

Guest [00:57:36] Sure. I mean, but they already were doing evil things. Like we, we already had a moral imperative to kill all Nazis and we, you know, what is the def definition of a Nazi? Like, well, it doesn't, you know, whatever you think is a Nazi Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:57:49] Whoever you disagree with Yeah. Whoever

Guest [00:57:50] Goes to the right of you. No how, no matter how far left you were. So you always, you always have like a moral majority. And yeah, you're right, there's always abuse in this stuff, but it doesn't mean that it's, it's it's fake or, or not important. It's just that we have to realize that there's always an abuse of power and we need to figure out how to prevent that from happening again. We don't want another moral majority that comes in and tells you what you can and can't do. We don't want a woke. Right. You know, and that's what I'm hoping to

Vance Crowe [00:58:18] Away from. And when I hear Tucker Carlson, I mean like, there's no doubt that he has a way of framing things where you're like, yeah, that's right. And oh, you've told me about things I didn't know about and I'm really interested in this and you're interviewing people that I would want to hear from. But when I listen to him and I am hyper aware of mobs, he sounds like his tone for things sounds like he's doing hypnosis. It, there's a, there's a simplicity to the words, there's a repetition, he's

Guest [00:58:45] A good orator, he

Vance Crowe [00:58:46] A good, or that like gets you nodding along with him

Guest [00:58:50] In

Vance Crowe [00:58:51] A way that makes me say, no matter what good you're bringing here, I'm going to continue to shine a light that this is dangerous because it feels like hypnosis.

Guest [00:59:01] Yeah. He's, well, he's like, he's charismatic and he's on the right side of, you know, of the energy right now. So it's like very fun to like, you know, be like, yeah, Tucker's cool, he's our guy. And yeah, he's, he's kind of like a priestly figure right now. And so I do think it is good and you know, like I I, I like, I'm excited about the energy right now about this Trump team and all this stuff pro-America and, but I am going to re you know, and I think it's fine to like celebrate a little bit and say like, Hey, maybe we course corrected in the right direction, but then it's also really good to be, continue to remain skeptical of people in power. And so that includes Tucker and includes Trump and Vance and all these guys and, and Elon. 'cause I think Elon could also become this kind of like weird side of this like transhumanist, you know, you know, direction of humanity that I'm not necessarily excited about. So I think people sort of remain skeptical, but also like say, Hey, there's good things to be derived from here and let's just make sure that we keep things going the right way. And that's, that's the whole point of that's what the people are supposed to do is keep these people in power in check. So even if, you know, even if you think the Trump team is your guys, we still need to remain kinda like diligent

Vance Crowe [01:00:15] Yeah. Not taking the governors off. 'cause you're like, Hey, I want my side to just run as hot and as free as possible. Right. So that way we can get as much done as possible, keep the rules in place, like try and make sure that the parameters aren't broken, but there's a tension there, right? Yeah. Because I wanna see, I wanna see a chainsaw taken to the larger bureaucracy. Absolutely. But I also don't want to give them free reign to be able to do whatever they want.

Guest [01:00:37] Right? Yeah. I think, I think they need to come and gut a bunch of stuff as fast as possible and, and like just, you know, like yeah, smoke out the, the snakes and everything that's in that's in there. But then we, we need to make sure, yeah, I don't know. We just need to make sure that we don't like fall in the same trap of like idolizing these people because yeah, there is going to be return to religion and they're, we're already seeing that a little bit. And so when you combine the two, it also Yeah, it gets very sketchy really quick. So, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't, that we shouldn't bring that back. I think that we, we do need to bring back a sense of a connection with the divine because that's where we get our source of like source self-worth. And you can tap into things that are, you can tap into things that are more innovative and, and more artistically, you know, interesting and new. That's, that's where I think art is gonna be coming in from, from and being the most interesting. It's the people who are tapping into the divine. And I don't necessarily even mean like making Christian art. I mean just like tapping into, I, I like, like the spiritual and the aesthetic to me is like very ingrained in humanity. There isn't like a secular and a pro and there isn't a profane and a and a holy, like all of creation is holy. And so like when we, when we tap into this stuff, that's when it gets more interesting is when you look for the transcendence that's already a part of like the human experience. Whereas before I think we were tapping into some like very human, very political stuff that just wasn't interesting.

Guest [01:02:15] And that's why it felt like so many people already had gotten ugly and, and not interesting because we were just like not tapping into anything new.

Vance Crowe [01:02:27] Yeah. For me, like, so I'm a creative in the sense of, I, I write talks and I have to communicate ideas to people and one of the things that I've, I've come to a conclusion of is that I can only be a transmission rod if I am on the path. Like, there are things that make you on the path and it's when you're awake and you're like, oh, I shouldn't make that decision. You know, which could be as something as simple as like, I probably wanna avoid alcohol. 'cause not just because like, oh, I'll feel bad the next day, but this is taking me off the path. Right? This is like away from it. And if I continue to do things that are on the path, then more transmissions come to me. And that that electricity that you get to transmit, which I think transmitting that electricity, the best thing my, my creative director for Legacy Interviews talks about when you are transmitting that higher energy, like you are your higher self, you are your best self, you're like giving something into the universe that is, you know, more than just whatever your physical body could do whatever you're at. And I think that that's one of the things that I'm excited about in terms of people finding faith because I think it's easier for them to say, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop and listen to the voice and that voice is gonna tell me how to get back on the path. And the more that I'm on the path, the more that I'm called to my higher self and the more that I'm able to contribute good things to the world.

Guest [01:03:51] Yeah, no, that, that makes sense to me. You know, for me, I guess the only caveat is, you know, obviously like I'm Christian, so for me I'm like, what voice is it that you're pulling down? And I think there's more than one. So, you know, that's where I'm kind of like, I'm excited about the return to faith. I'm also like, oh wow, okay. We're gonna see a lot of different faiths growing as well. So as a Christian personally, I'm kinda like, all right, this is gonna get very interesting. And, but I, yeah, I guess in some ways I'm also just kind of like, well, this is better than maybe, you know, debating about how nothing exists. So I don't know. It'll get more inter All I can say is I don't know where things are going other than I know it's gonna be way more interesting than it was like arguing with like, you know, Reddit new atheists like 10 years ago. So maybe we, maybe we'll see, maybe we'll see some biblical proportions of discussions happening in the next, next several decades. I don't know

Vance Crowe [01:05:00] If people wanted to read more about the stuff you're interested in, what you're finding, where, where would you send them?

Guest [01:05:09] That's, it's always a hard question for me to answer, but just because I'm so all, all, all over the place. I'm, I'm constantly on x just looking for signal and, and so I, I'm trying to

Vance Crowe [01:05:22] And what's your X handle?

Guest [01:05:24] It's t Chavez Matthews. It's, should I spell that?

Vance Crowe [01:05:29] I'll put it in the show

Guest [01:05:30] Notes. Okay. Yeah. But so, right. But I, I need to spend less time on there, honestly. But yeah, I, I would say I would, I would just, just because we brought it up earlier, the, the CS Lewis Space Trilogy is definitely a good read just because it's so on the nose of what's happening today. I would, I just bought a bible that has the dodo chronical canonical books in 'em. So I'm starting to read like some of these, like, you know, so there's like, the Catholics have these extra books that the Protestants don't have. And, and I've just kind of like started realizing like, Hey, what, what, what's the deal with that? And so I, I'm finding out these books are actually like, really good and, and most of the church read them up until like, until Luther. And so I'm like, okay, there's some interesting stuff to, to glean from there. So I've been reading that. I don't know why I went on that tangent there. I guess just, maybe just because I just bought that Bible, but I, and, and then, yeah, I'm at a, I'm actually at a total loss. Like I normally, I've got like a bunch of books lined up and this time I, I'm just going through a lot of friends books, you know. Okay. So that, that, that did bring me to the next thing. There's, as far if people wanna understand like where I think we're going as far as like arts. There's a book that my friend just released, his name's John King sp Piezo, and he released a book on passage press called something of the Springtime. And it's a, it's a book that I think is important, very important culturally because it's not this like so much of artists being like, tied to politics.

Guest [01:07:08] And I think that's actually not good. I think that's actually gonna make bad art. And I think it's fun to do stuff that's tied to politics right now, but I think we need to get out of that space. And I feel like his book is symbolically important because to me that's like a turning point to where it's just a book that has no hot takes, it's just good prose and like a return to having, like, making just like good art for the sake of good art is, is kind of missing right now. And I feel like that's what he's nailed with this book that he wrote. And so that's why I feel like it's a really important book to read. So that'd be the one I would, I would promote is, is that one,

Vance Crowe [01:07:42] And you have a Substack, right?

Guest [01:07:44] I do not super active on there, but it's the same thing as Teach of It's Sub Doub Stack. And I do some like weekly roundups just on things that I think are interesting culturally and just started, just started doing those, but,

Vance Crowe [01:08:00] Well dude, thanks for stopping by and hanging out for a little

Guest [01:08:02] While. Yeah, man. Always a lot of fun to, to chat with this stuff about this stuff. So thanks again.

Vance Crowe [01:08:09] Cool. All right. Yeah. How'd that feel?

Guest [01:08:12] Felt good? Yeah.