Ukrainian Citizen Describes Life During Russian Invasion: Real-Time Account from Western Ukraine

Valentin Manher [00:00:00] Nobody wants to die. Right. But not, not nobody wants to be a slave. Right. And we have an expression in Ukrainian. I will say that in Ukrainian and then you can translate it. Arabia der postcard.

Vance Crowe [00:00:19] Pri. Yeah, I Is Grow podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today we're doing a special update. I spent a lot of yesterday evening looking through the news reports and trying to discern what's really going on in the Ukraine. I noticed that Western media would only show very small clips of what Putin was saying in his perspective, and you would hear vague assessments of how many people were killed, how is the war going? And very rarely did you see a regular person talking. I've always thought that the internet would've wildly opened up our ability to stave off a war. You could contact the people living in a war zone and you could say, what is it that you want? What is it that's going on around you? But when the Iraq war happened, that just never materialized. And in fact, what we saw where there were a lot of people that spoke their own language and lived within their own culture talking about these things, but you didn't see cross border. Well, in this particular situation, I happen to be fortunate because the executive producer Ben Anderson, is well connected in the Ukrainian world and in fact is studying the Ukrainian language. And so yesterday when we started saying, Hey, maybe we should interview somebody from over there, he was able to go to his network and find a really interesting young guy that has graduated from college, has hobbies that include traveling and hiking and orienteering up in the mountains of Romania.

Vance Crowe [00:01:53] But he lives and works in Ukraine with his family. And so we got Valentine man her on the podcast, and we just asked him questions that a guy that's living in a new war zone could help us to understand what is he seeing? What are the Ukrainians really feeling? So that that way we could get past what mainstream media wants us to hear and hear it from a citizen. We're gonna maybe do some more of these as the world unfolds. You know, we don't like to go into special coverage because we wanna just be up the graph focusing on long-term issues. But because this has such a large impact, not just on the lives of Ukrainians and Europeans, but ultimately has a potential big impact on the entire world, for the rest of history, this is worth watching. So if you have ideas on special guests that we should interview, if you know a Russian, if you know other people in the Eastern European area that have been affected by this, know that we're very open to interviewing them and and interested in giving them a chance to explain what the world looks like from their perspective. You will notice very quickly that Valentine is a sweet guy who is very intelligent and we're really glad that he came on to discuss his perspective. So without further ado, let's head into this interview with Valentine Manhar. Valentine. Manhar, welcome to the podcast.

Valentin Manher [00:03:20] Thanks a lot. Thanks for inviting me. Inviting me.

Vance Crowe [00:03:23] Well, these are unusual circumstances. We just got introduced a few moments ago, but you are actually living in Ukraine, which has been invaded by Russia depending on where your perspective is. Why don't you just start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what's going on where you are right now?

Valentin Manher [00:03:42] Okay, so I'm a Ukrainian, I born here in the Western Ukraine. I'm 27 years old. I'm graduated from university like three years ago. My degree is like IBC cryptography and land management. But now I'm, well, I chose other things. I'm teaching, well, I'm tutor actually, but I'm teaching Ukrainian language and Russian like on one of the famous platform for like professional teachers and, and tutors. So I, I meet a lot of people like for the last two, two years, like of my experience and I, in the past I did a lot of hobbies as like orienting like hiking and once hitchhiking. So I travel a bit in Europe. Well, it's a bit for me, a little bit about me.

Vance Crowe [00:04:51] So where, where are you living right now?

Valentin Manher [00:04:54] I'm living in Western Ukraine. This town where we are saying city, it's around like it's called, it's a near two Romanian border. So it's so close to the, it's, it's on the west, it's a western Ukraine.

Vance Crowe [00:05:15] And so where you're at, have you heard explosions and seen soldiers and,

Valentin Manher [00:05:19] And people like this? Fortunately not, but a lot of like my friends and people to whom I know, like who are lived in Kyiv, they moved from there. So one of my friend from university moved from Kyiv. He saw the Russian, saw the Russian I Aircraft, no, it's like planes

Vance Crowe [00:05:45] Aircraft, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Valentin Manher [00:05:46] Aircraft. He saw the aircraft and like the first time he saw that it is Ukrainian, but then he noted that it's, it's Russian and they like put the bump in the, in the, on the north, like in the Kyiv region. So, and he decided at the time he decided to move from Kyiv to the western Ukraine, like around 400 kilometers from Kyiv. Well we, for now we have a lot of refugees from other parts of Ukraine, from the north, from east. I don't even know from where people are like, like running, like in who, people who want to escape this world, like families with children. And in my hometown, a lot of people trying to, like, a lot of volunteers try to help how they can like bring some food mats, like the thing that you co that you can cover when you, when it's cold.

Vance Crowe [00:06:54] Okay. What, so let's, let's kind of start with what is your interpretation of what is happening right now? Were you surprised? My

Valentin Manher [00:07:03] Interpretation is, it is just, so at first I didn't expect that I saw that were will be continue on the Eastern Ukraine, but I was really surprised of that and this like, like intervention Russia attack, like sovereign country in this, like in the central Europe, like if we compare Ukrainian with Russia, so we have a lot of benefit like democracy, like democratic elections, a lot of free, we can go to the protests and the police will not capture us. And based off all of those things and Putin ambition, like we have eight years of war on the Eastern Ukraine and occupied Crimea. Everybody know about it, about that. And we didn't expect, we didn't expect that the Russia for a few months escalate those things like collected troops around the Ukrainian border. And it's like, it's a horrible things, what, what's happening now. So you, I can't imagine in 21st centuries to have a war in the big countries with the huge population that's one of the big, like the big countries in the world. Like, and this, I can say this word, you can like edit that like he's scu back. He's a fucking scumbag.

Vance Crowe [00:08:36] What do you think he wants,

Valentin Manher [00:08:38] He wants to like to invite Ukraine and to recover like Soviet Union. That that's his ambition. And he is saying, he's saying that Ukrainian, it's not a country, it just the part of the Russia, but it isn't true. It's totally isn't true. So everything, what's happened, like everything start from here. Like it's everything begin from the Kiev and like a lot of kingdoms that's called them like 1000 years ago. And

Vance Crowe [00:09:19] Yeah, I've been watching,

Valentin Manher [00:09:20] Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:09:21] I've been watching a lot of videos about, about like kind of the history, just trying to take a crash course. And when people look at the history of Russia, many of them say actually if you go back to like 900 ad Kiev was its own capital and was actually much more powerful than Moscow and was actually the, the, the cradle of this, the, this kind of civilization

Valentin Manher [00:09:43] There, there's wasn't Moscow, there's wasn't, there was nothing Kiev just that, that at the beginning. And based on the history we, this were not just start like eight years ago. It started like for many centuries ago when the Russian empire like in by the like some part of Ukraine and like forbid the Ukrainian language, we have like, like terrible history when the Russia like tried to simplify Ukrainian language and make it like closer to the Russian.

Vance Crowe [00:10:25] So you'd actually teach both Ukrainian and Russian. I've heard people say, ah, they're basically the same language. Do you agree with that?

Valentin Manher [00:10:32] No, I'm disagree. So I'll give you an example. So do you know how, what the language is like Spanish or Italian or French Italian, like based on the vocabulary they Latin languages a bit closer than Ukrainian with Russian. So Ukrainian closer with Polish language and with Illa Russian, which now is like almost non-speaking inus. So 62% of similarity that's a different ju is 62% of similarity. And we have a like grammar similar but the vaca a lot of vocabulary like completely different.

Vance Crowe [00:11:20] And if one could read Ukrainian say, would they be able to read Russian

Valentin Manher [00:11:28] One who read Ukrainian will be, so everybody in Ukrainian understands Russian language. Yeah, it's opposite. We, let's say that everybody who read Russian in Russia, if they will able to read Ukrainian language, they, they don't understand Ukrainian if I'm talking so fast and I'm using a lot of like different kind of synonyms.

Vance Crowe [00:11:54] So you're a young man and this is a war going on that may impact your future. What, how do you think this is going to play out? How are you preparing yourself?

Valentin Manher [00:12:08] Well for now I don't have like, I don't have a military experience or something like that, but we have a contract army, a lot of professional soldier soldiers, but we also have like territorial defense and say if they like, if they will call me. So if the people the government would say that I should do something for, for that. So then I should, for now I'm just, I'm here in Ukraine, so

Vance Crowe [00:12:46] Yeah. And what is the situation with the fighting? I mean I've definitely seen photography and video from it, but I can't understand any of it. So as I watch a plane go over as I watch a tank, I just have to trust that they say, oh this is a, a Russian tank as opposed to a Ukrainian tank. What, what is actually going on as far as like the violence?

Valentin Manher [00:13:11] Well Russia attacked from the south, from the Crimea, from the Crimea opinion, so on from the north where the, from the Ashian actually territory, they entered to Ashian and they attacked ki from Ian and Russian territory and the Ukrainian like army pretty strong. And they tried to defend the capital at first and on a lot of other directions. So they like there is the Russian law lost like seven aircraft, six helicopter. I check the information on the local like resources and almost I heard the last news I heard almost 1000 soldiers. Yeah. And they prepare, I heard the news that they Russian prepare like 400, like for 4,500 packages for their soldiers like for the diet like soldiers who died. And a lot of Ukrainian military like capture like they catch the Russian soldiers after, well they catch them and they film and ask them where are you from? What are you doing here and so on. Then that what's going on? And now it's key of the, well i i dunno a lot of specific vocabulary to explain some small precise things what is going on. So if you have any question you can like ask me that again if I didn't mention something.

Vance Crowe [00:14:48] So one of the things that I found interesting was I read Putin's the transcript of his speech after he had begun the invasion of the Ukraine. And at one point he refers to getting rid of neo-Nazis and people that have been propped up by the US government. To me this is an almost in, in like, I can't understand what any of this means to me that's like crazy talk. What what is the purpose of what he's saying and w how, how do you interpret it?

Valentin Manher [00:15:20] It's like totally propaganda. It's totally untrue what he is saying. The people who watching like, like people news, Deutsche German news or other like famous like New York Times or even Ukrainian news, they, they don't believe that's a lot of thing that he's saying. I think he's saying like it's like just for propaganda there is no just people, Ukrainian Ukrainians and Ukrainian army, they're trying to defense the country. That's it. There's no any nationalists and so on that's totally like untrue. It's totally like that is bullshit.

Vance Crowe [00:16:02] So who are, what are saying are who are these people that he's claiming have declared independence from the Ukraine and that he's going in to like liberate or support their, you know, I watched him doing a talk where he had some guy stand up at a podium and he said, do you support the sovereignty of these nations that have broken away from the Ukraine? And the the guy says, yes I do. What is he even talking about there?

Valentin Manher [00:16:28] Oh this man who answered to Putin and scares them. It seemed that he has scary Putin and agree with him by all of the his questions. Right, right. This man. So I don't know about him, I dunno nothing about him, but they, a lot of of them they just scary. They put in his like he is crazy, his purpose that invites this invite the country and show the whole world that this power,

Vance Crowe [00:17:07] I guess maybe shaped. And the question another way would be we are being told that there are separatists inside of the Ukraine that invited the Russians in. Is that true? Are there, are there people that wanted Russia to come in?

Valentin Manher [00:17:22] I think there is probably a couple percent who would like to, who wanted to rushing by like probably not more than 5%. It's not a majority like 70 or 80%. They, they don't want this imperialism, this Soviet union regime like here in Ukraine is just about this like separatist. It's just a propaganda that they are was independent and so on.

Vance Crowe [00:17:57] And what do you think Putin is going to do? Do you think he's going to try and annex all of the Ukraine into Russia and then you'll be considered a Russian in the future?

Valentin Manher [00:18:07] No, don't say that anymore. Nobody will not consider it the Russian. Yeah, because it's, yeah, he would like to, he would like to invade the, the half of the Europe, how it was in the past in the last century. If you learn the geography, pardon me, if you learn the history, what was what was in the last century? Now he is like Hitler, he is a Hitler who tried to like annex the part of the sovereign country as Hitler did in with Austria.

Vance Crowe [00:18:49] What is your interpretation of the fact that when, when the Ukraine was attacked by Russia, that the US didn't, you know, drop paratroopers in or that NATO didn't contribute? Were you expecting that other countries would immediately come to your aid?

Valentin Manher [00:19:10] Well that's a good and it's perfect. It's many countries like uk, United States and nato, they help a lot by those like Javelins and others like military equipment that what they are sending that before that they prepare to that. And I expect that the other country who now like stop this system sweeped, I don't know a lot of about this system, but it will completely like that will be good for, for defense Ukraine to make like put in like more that's what I expect. I think they, well a lot of Ukrainians thinking why they are not doing those hard sanction. We're not expecting like some, like some troops from nato we're expecting the hard sanction to the Russia and probably land ize. I know I don't know a lot about that but I heard is something related with like unlimited like support with the, with the equipment with some like patron and so on. I dunno a lot, a lot about that. But it's one the Ukrainian last pre president Perko talked, talked about it.

Valentin Manher [00:20:41] So blend list, planned lease. If I, one,

Vance Crowe [00:20:45] It's an interesting thing. So I actually work as on a board of a small bank in the United States and I was surprised when they did a bunch of banking sanctions. We're going to freeze the assets. So if your money is already in our banks, you'll go to log in if you're from Russia and you just won't be able to get access to it. But the swift system is the ability for a company that's making a large sale to be able to basically confirm that the person they're about to, to wire money to agrees. Yes, I'm I'm the person you say that you, that you think it is and that we'll confirm receipt that this money has been sent. And so it's, it's a payment system but it's more of a communication system. And when they didn't take that down, it meant that Russia could still participate in the economy and the sale of things like fuel to Germany, which is an interesting thing because the Germans might really be upset that the Russia is invading the Ukraine but not so upset as to risk their ability to buy gas from Russia. Is is my interpretation of it.

Valentin Manher [00:21:50] Yeah, because the Russian, they are really scary about the, if if, if this situation will touch to each, each person in Russia, if the rubble will like fall and they will not able to like buy some simple things and they will go on the street and do this some protest. 'cause like just in this way they can understand what is going on because there is a huge propaganda, some like smart people who are not watching like those channel essential Russian channel. They're really sorry, they're, they are crying and but there is a, there is not a lot of people.

Vance Crowe [00:22:38] So how would you rate how your government has responded to Russia being invaded? Were they prepared in the ways that they should have been? And and how are they reacting now?

Valentin Manher [00:22:49] I think they re they reacting. They reacting pretty well. So I don't wanna judge the government. They are doing the what they can and it's the best thing. So we, like everybody should do something. Not just the government volunteer and the all of the nation, all of Ukrainians. So I'm not, I I'm not, I'm not going to judge them. They're, they're doing well. They prepare a lot of things. They accept the laws that people can defend themself like defense, territorial defense. So yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:23:38] So as you're looking at the way Russia has invaded, have they been rounding up civilians? Do are civilians worried about being caught in this whole situation? Or is it more soldiers fighting soldiers?

Valentin Manher [00:23:55] At the beginning, yes, but they shot, yeah, now I heard it. No, the on internet, there is a photograph by one of the photographer that man like standing on his like knees and crying on the do like, like civilian and crying and his car like destroyed and like everything around him destroyed. And in ki Kiev they like put the bombs on the civilian, like on the building. Now they are, they are, don't care. They're trying to destroy like infrastructure, like fights to fight with the army. With army and put the bombs to the civilian. They're doing what they want. They want to destroy everything. They want to scary at first. They want to scary and they want us to, to panic. In this situation

Vance Crowe [00:24:58] It seems like you have strong resolve. Do you have plans for what you are going to do? Are you going to stay put? Are you going to go seek family out or try and get to where friends are?

Valentin Manher [00:25:12] Well as I said before, we will try to help like refugees probably we can donate bloods that what my friend did yesterday, one of the one of them did that we can do that donate blood help refugees and people who want to leave who, who are scary. Like they can, they can leave, but the man from the young, from young 18 years old to the 16, they can't leave country. Now based on this, I don't know how to call this time when the government did this laws

Vance Crowe [00:25:59] Is there is that kind of a draft like where they're bringing people into the army that maybe weren't, didn't originally sign up, but now we need you. So we're gonna con they call it conscription where they bring you into the military?

Valentin Manher [00:26:11] Yeah, that's, well I didn't get the question really. Can you please say again?

Vance Crowe [00:26:16] Well, do you feel like the government is going to conscript young young men into the military, right? No,

Valentin Manher [00:26:23] It is opposite the y the people, not the young men, but the people who had experienced like 30 years, 40 years who been already experienced by war or just militaries, like servant stages come to this like department, military and they're staying on the line waiting for the, the command. What they will do, the people don't, the government don't need to like catch people and like force 'em to the military. For now we're hoping the professional army, not the amount, not the huge amount of people, but less amount. Professional army will defend the country. But other but other will like help them from the inside doing a a lot of different stuff. We're not talking about like to do like this, those things like, well I'm stuck.

Vance Crowe [00:27:34] It's okay. You're doing great man. This is, this is fascinating to me. And I have to say it's been very frustrating as a person that thinks like, oh well we have the internet, I can get any information about what's going on that I want. And what I find is that in the American news, or at least in the English speaking news, that there, it's, it's so vague as to be difficult to know what's really going on. So they'll say there are a lot of casualties instead of there's 10 casualties or there's 10,000, right? But if you just say a lot people in their minds just have to imagine whatever that is. And so there's, it's very difficult, it's a fuzzy view of what's actually happening there.

Valentin Manher [00:28:16] Well the like usual local or like American or like doing his job and back to home and they're trying to understand what is going on. Like simply a lot of people on the street, they are following the news. Unstop Unlimited. I think it's like you need to for a few hours to leave the phone and doing your job and follow the news, follow the commands, but still continue living the life you live before. That's hard to do. I'm Ukrainian tutor and it's like, not video it, it isn't video editing so you need to communicate with people but it's, it's what's hard. A lot of them who learn Ukrainian there or Ukrainians like from diaspora, if you know this word. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:29:14] They're people that have left the country and now they're trying to continue in in their Ukrainian so they can stay connected with the culture.

Valentin Manher [00:29:20] Yeah. And they, I impressed a lot that a lot of like foreigners, law Ukrainian. So it's a good example for even for Ukrainian to an So I'm continu answer answering your question. Now you can see I didn't see that, but a lot of people who joined to territorial defense with in in uniform a lot of refugees. So I didn't see them, but I think tomorrow I will 'cause I can stay here. I I was shocked. My mom, my mom called me at the early morning and he just, he just, he just like woke me up by call and I pick up the phone and answer what, what is why you call me? It's like so early you, she told me you didn't see what is going on. Like Russia invite the, the hair, the city on the north of Crimea and I was shocked a lot. I didn't. So I think he will not, he, I think he just carry the people, but he is, yeah. And what else? At first they put the bonds to this like strategical, like air reports. Where where is there some Ukrainian base and weapon?

Valentin Manher [00:30:52] They put the bomb there but the Ukrainian, how do you say or give, gimme a second. It's a good word. Lemme just look for this word. Okay. Intelligence.

Vance Crowe [00:31:18] Yeah. So it's like a knowledge of the other side. What are they doing? What are they thinking about? That kind of, yes. Yeah,

Valentin Manher [00:31:24] They they prepared to that they was ready. Yeah. And they,

Vance Crowe [00:31:31] What message do you think the world should take away from this? Do you think that Putin, so one of the things that you hear in the US is that if Putin could, he would march straight from the Ukraine into Poland and, and and continue on to try and grab more land. Do you think that's a possibility?

Valentin Manher [00:31:53] Everything is possible, right? Like to be the like optimist and to understand really what is going on. It's hard to do. It's pretty hard to do because Ukrainian army is isn't small con is isn't isn't small army at the beginning and experienced by war for eight year and prepared. So it's hard. But the, the united, I mean European union countries like Australia, USA and other democrat democratic countries, they should respond in like place sanction for support to Ukraine anyway because it's touched to everybody, even to you.

Vance Crowe [00:32:46] So you're saying you, you believe that people around the world should be really supporting the sanctions, anything they can do to get Russia to back down because if you don't get them to back down, they then this will continue to impact people even not living in the Ukraine.

Valentin Manher [00:33:01] Yeah. Especially with people in Poland, in Romania and Baltic countries. 'cause they, they are a small one and and so on. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:33:17] So there's a lot of talk about the, the fact that if the Ukraine had been a part of nato then that would've been one of those triggering events where you attack one, you attack us all. Why was Ukraine not a member of nato? If that would've, you know, preserved them in a situation like this.

Valentin Manher [00:33:37] Why Ukraine on the nato? Good question. The, so you know, we are 30 years independent country, right? But anyway, the politics and the all the pol like politics before they didn't do that. Probably the nation, the people before the, we had the first revolution like in 2004 when the pro-Russian like president, they like FALs ate, I don't know if it's the right word,

Vance Crowe [00:34:21] Falsified,

Valentin Manher [00:34:22] Falsified election. And we have the first revolution. And from that time people like the Ukrainian show that we're not like a Russia, we're not like Russia want, but we, we did what, what we did. So it's, it would be great to join the nato I think as a Romania and I don't know which year in two, in 1997 or in two thousands, but before this time we don't even, we, we wasn't, we weren't ready to that at the time when the Romania and Poland and other politic country joined that they did like their best good political reforms based on that they were, they were able to participate and join to the Nado. But we are not unfortunately as Georgia, as Moldova, you know, those countries.

Vance Crowe [00:35:39] So let's change gears instead of talking about the big grand pol this, but let's talk about your experience of this. If, if you don't mind, what are you feeling? Are you scared right now? Do you worry for your life or the life of your family?

Valentin Manher [00:35:58] More or less, of course they have like ins. So n nobody wants to die, right? But not, not nobody wants to be a slave. Right? And we have an expression in Ukrainian. I will say that in Ukrainian and then you can translate it so I can translate it as the slaves can be in heaven. Right.

Vance Crowe [00:36:30] So what about the rest of your family do, are they making moves? Are they, do you live near your family right now? Are they in other parts of the country?

Valentin Manher [00:36:38] Yeah, I'm with my family for now, but we are thinking, so I can go somewhere like out of the country, but my family, they can, so like my, my mom, my younger brother, my sister and my wife, so they can move. But there is a lot of lines to the Romanian Poland border. We have, I have a lot of students around the Europe who can help my family have some friends in Europe who can help them. But we have like a property, you know, we have like houses and everything here. Like my parents build, build that for, for years to live that now and escape from the country where you lived a lot of years people get used to live here. So a lot of people, like my wife's colleague, co colleagues, they moved to the neighbor country, European Union country, Romania. Well we're, we're thinking, we're trying to agree or we will do, nobody knows what is going on. And we put in hand head

Vance Crowe [00:38:08] When the United States was attacked on September 11th, all of a sudden I would look around at people and they weren't just classmates or strangers, all of a sudden we were Americans that, that felt connected. Do you feel that way with other Ukrainians now that you're facing war together?

Valentin Manher [00:38:29] Of course. And the question, how are you now? The question was like very spread sharing around like around us, around your friends, the question how are you, which actually mean I love you. We can interpretate that because you everybody like see each other and everybody, the people with whom you're didn't talk for a long time, they call into you, they asking how are you from, from the Ukraine? And everybody look united. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:39:17] Well as we wrap up, is there anything that you want people outside of Ukraine to know about what's going on?

Valentin Manher [00:39:27] I think they, I think they know what's going on, but that's a pretty important, that's like on the first step to the third world war. And I think the countries, European union countries, some of them really careful that they don't want to like do some step, they really, really careful I think because of that. And I want tell them if they will like ignore the thing that is going on here in Ukraine now it's war beyond, behind the door, behind their doors. So that's important thing to be in united to, to speak with the people, to ask the question, to support how they wants to do or like go to the like protest and force somehow the government to help. And because like, because it's a nation, it's like in democracy countries like people, it's one of the important, and I would recommend people, I would invite them and I would really want them to go like to the, like some government building and force to do like more hard things the best they can do. Well, many, many of my students ask me and support me and gimme an address that I can move to there.

Valentin Manher [00:41:04] I so I'm just saying thank you, thanks a lot and appreciate it. And a lot of them scary about that. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:41:18] Well that's Mein maner, the, I can, I cannot even imagine what it would be like to be in your shoes, but I can say most of the time we imagine that the internet connects us with people and, but we overlook it. But I'm so grateful that you were connected with me through the executive producer Ben Anderson, and you were willing to do this. And please know that anytime something goes on, if you wanna connect with our audience, I would gladly have you on again to discuss. So be safe out there and know you have a microphone here with us.

Valentin Manher [00:41:51] Cool. Cool. Thanks so much.