Former US Ambassador Exposes How 30% of Food Aid Gets Stolen by Warlords

Kip Tom [00:00:00] You know, we, we know one thing for certain. When people cannot feed themselves, they lose hope. They'll migrate twice within their own country and then they'll go outside their borders. Once they go outside their borders. They're subject to human trafficking Number. Numbers are nearly 21 million people a year. 21 million people a year. Get human traffic.

Vance Crowe [00:00:22] I'm Bruce figure, a veterinarian living in Sylvia, Kansas, and you're listening to the Vance Crow podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today we speak with Ambassador KIPP Tom. Ambassador Tom is an interesting character. He was a farmer of a large amount of acreage and probably one of the most preeminent farmers in the United States for some period of time. And then after I left Monsanto and kind of moved on in the ag world, I didn't hear much until my friend kept, Tom was appointed as ambassador for the United States to the food systems programs that are at the un. So when I found out he was coming back from being an ambassador, I reached out to him and said, Hey man, let's talk about what your experience was, what you saw out there. It's very interesting I person to interview because he both knows deeply about farming and is also in this diplomatic world that I touched for a little while, but then decided to leave. So I had a great conversation with him. He let me buzz some tough questions past him, and he did a great job. This is a very interesting interview. We're gonna get to that. But last week you probably heard me talking about the VR workshops and field trips. These are getting exciting. And one of the things that happened after the last time I talked about this was I had some conversations with some businesses that were like, yeah, but what is VR right now? What's going on with it? Is it video games? We don't really have a need for that. If it is it like conferences. We don't think our people have enough VR headsets that they're gonna attend a conference.

Vance Crowe [00:01:54] And so I said, well, why don't we just go take a look at it? And people have been shocked by how advanced VR is. And most of my point is not that I know what the future will be. The point of these presentations and these field trips that we're doing with VR is to show you all of the different directions that VR is heading in. And I would say that many of them are going to come to fruition. It won't just be one or two paths through vr. VR is going to be a central component of the way we interact with the world. So if you're interested in checking that out, go to Articulate Ventures slash vr and request a meeting. We can talk about doing one of these workshops for your business or organization. Also, if you are out there, you're thinking, I've been on these Zoom calls, I am finally coming to the realization that Coronavirus is gonna push Zoom calls well into the future. You might find the class that I put together on telepresence really helpful. This class is designed to teach you how to set up lights, where to put your camera, how can you have a low cost, but high quality microphone. Really, how can you use telepresence like buying a new suit or a new dress if you're interested in that. It's a pretty inexpensive class. I put it up a couple of months ago, and it has really helped a lot of people get better at the way they present themselves online. And I think when you look better, you feel better about it. And those meetings are a lot more fun when you know how to make your whole system work. So if you're interested in checking out one of those telepresence class, go to store Articulate Ventures. And finally, in February, the Articulate Ventures network has decided that we, after doing our cold water showers this month, we are going to do a sleep competition.

Vance Crowe [00:03:35] We have an entire point system set up for people trying to get more than seven or eight hours of sleep every night. So we've set up this competition and it is a big one in the network. People are excited about it. We're gonna start it in February. And if you wanna participate with us, you should think about joining the network by going to Network dot Articulate Ventures. There. You'll find a way to sign up and you can join this eclectic group of people from around the United States that are all pushing themselves to try new experiences, figure out how to communicate more effectively, and are excited to meet people from all over the country with different perspectives. But one thing they have in common is they like the guests that come on the Vance Crow podcast. So if you're interested, come join the network. You'll have a blast. It is Network Articulate Ventures. All right, without further ado, let's head to the interview with Ambassador Kip Tom, ambassador Kip. Tom, welcome to the podcast.

Kip Tom [00:04:28] Well, it's an honor to be with you this morning, honored to be what part of the show, the blog, and hope we can get the message, the things that I've learned over the past 20 months in Rome, Italy. Get that exposed more to those around the world and understanding what goes on in food and agriculture and our global supply chain. So back to you.

Vance Crowe [00:04:48] It's interesting, right? You are one of the most preeminent, or were one of the most preeminent farmers in the United States. I mean, people knew who Kip Tom was. And then I looked up and you're an ambassador flying to Rome with fancy suits on talking with all these dignitaries. What in the world was it like to go from being farmer extraordinaire to guy running around in the Diplomatic Corps?

Kip Tom [00:05:12] Well, first of all, I don't think I'm any different than most American farmers, and I don't think we're preeminent. There's many good farmers around the United States. I just happened to be very fortunate to be a part of a, a family, a business that started very small in the Midwest, back in the fifties. Family settled here in 1837 and was able to live the American dream, the American dream, where you worked hard, you leveraged the, the resources you had, you took risk and you had a vision of what the future looked like. So I, I would say there's a lot of American farmers that are like that and their use of technology and their use or their ability to run a business. But in terms of going on and serving as an ambassador to the, the Rome based UN agencies, it was an honor for me. But I was very focused on making sure that my time there was well spent. I think we've lacked a strong voice over time, really getting the effective policy guidance and making sure that we had an impact not only on food security around the world, but the ability for food to be traded around the world as well. Making surely lift up lives and prove livelihoods for everybody.

Vance Crowe [00:06:21] So I don't think most people realize how, at least the American diplomatic world works. And I'll just give a quick rundown to see if I understand it. My sense is that there is a bureaucracy which people can apply to. They get a regular job, they take some tests, and they can go up through the diplomatic world where they could be anything from being a passport agent at an embassy to being somebody that specializes in something like U-S-A-I-D. And then there's another component, which is the a the appointed side of the ambassadorship, which is to say, you have a new President, Donald Trump. He now gets to come in and say, I want somebody that is going to be my voice in the rest of the world. Is that an, an accurate representation of the diplomatic world?

Kip Tom [00:07:04] I would say it's, it's, it's very close to it. You know, I, I I want to take and, and say thank you to all the many people that are in a foreign career service that chose to represent the United States around the world and in the United States, making that career path where they go through the process of continual education and make sure that the United States is represented, whether they're serving in a mission in Chiang Mai, Thailand, or Rome, Italy, or Bogota, Columbia. We need to have good representation everywhere. And the United States does this best in class of, of most countries around the world. As far as the political appointees like myself, yeah, it was an honor to be chosen by the administration and serve our country. But in the role that I served in was very bipartisan, one that would, Democrats and Republicans alike understood the importance of food security and making sure that the US voice was being heard there. So it was an honor for me to serve our country and continue to look for other ways to serve it as well in the future.

Vance Crowe [00:08:06] So you show up in Rome, you're a guy that's been a farmer. You've been involved in politics in, in the United States. What is it like, are you prepared for the world that you're about to enter four years ago when you're appointed?

Kip Tom [00:08:17] Well, first of all, I never been much of a part of politics till probably about 2015. I did never ran for office in my life. I did run for, for US Congress in 2015, 16, and, you know, lost by a few points. And we've got a very good person serving in that role today. But this opportunity came up about a year and a half later into the administration, understanding that we had a vacancy in this role. And it was an honor to go there and serve in terms of understanding what to do. You know, the, the United States does a really good job of taking political appointees and educating them with a process. What's expected of an ambassador. You know, what is the protocol? How do you represent yourself in the public? How do you represent yourself when you get into policy meetings and understanding, sometimes you're gonna be on one-to-one meetings with maybe a leader of a, a a different country from around the world. Could be a prime minister, could be an ambassador. How do you best represent our opinions, our views, and making sure that we do the right thing for diplomacy. So they have what's called Ambassador school. A lot of us always think that, or we, I had the misconception that it was more about protocol, how to pick up your spoon, how to place your silverware, how to, you know, greet people, things like that wasn't part of it at all actually. It got into a lot of the components of how to behave as ambassador, how to expect what's expected of us once we come to Mission as we interact with other diplomats from around the world. And it was a very helpful course to go through.

Kip Tom [00:09:49] Lasted about a month in Washington, DC for most of it. But I What

Vance Crowe [00:09:54] Did you learn that you didn't expect?

Kip Tom [00:09:56] Excuse me?

Vance Crowe [00:09:57] What did you learn that you didn't expect during that class?

Kip Tom [00:10:01] It, it, you know, I, there weren weren't any really big surprises 'cause I was wide open. I, I, I think the one thing that probably set me back was the amount of bureaucracy that's involved in either onboarding to go serve in this role or what I'm doing right now, going through the bureaucracy of removing myself from United States Government Service. So that's the one thing I probably didn't expect enough or understand enough about. But the diplomacy, listen, I, I, I think you would be a good diplomat, obviously, doing what you do. You're used to interacting with people and talking with them and listening to their side. I think you always have to seek first understand and then to be understood. And I think that's a big part of diplomacy.

Vance Crowe [00:10:45] You know, I'm really excited to talk to you because I have a lot of respect for you. You're very well respected in the community. And my observations about the Diplomatic Corps. So I went to International Relations school. I ended up working at the World Bank. I was in the Peace Corps. I traveled around the world. My observation is that if you live in that diplomat world for too long, you end up actually being in an entirely different culture. You, you live in a, in a, in a strata at society along with other world leaders that are living entirely separate from, from the rest of the world. So I have always had a bad, since, since I was in Africa, and I watched embassy parties happen. I've had a bad taste in my mouth about the diplomatic core. What are your thoughts? Did you see things there that you were like, Ooh, th these people are not, they've been away from the United States for too long.

Kip Tom [00:11:39] Yeah, you do see that. I mean, that, that's obvious. And it comes out, it manifests itself in different ways with different individuals, right? It's, we're all, as human beings, we respond, we react, we accept things in different ways. I would say this is a, I always wanted to remember where I came from, my beginnings in my life of growing up on that small farm and, and then thinking back through before I would make decisions or before I would make comments, I would say to myself, how does this impact a farmer in the United States? Or how does this impact, impact our ecosystem of agriculture across the country? At the same time, focusing on those that are food insecure around the world and try to try to come to a consensus that we can satisfy both. One thing for certain is I run into a lot of these career diplomats, especially in Rome because it's such a technical nature. I mean, we've got, we're dealing with the World Food Program, the Food and Agricultural Organization, efa International Fund for Agricultural Development, ilo, the International Development Law Organization, ra, which does public law, and then, excuse me, private law. And then we have ecro, which teaches or helps with the cultural preservation around the world. Of course, most of the focus is on WFP, which is the, you know, the largest of all the UN agencies, but the largest one we deal with as well. And the Food and Agriculture organization, and then efa, which does the financing for small holder farmers and some commercial enterprises. But what you find out is in the diplomatic core, you get a lot of people from different nations around the world.

Kip Tom [00:13:13] They can't respond to a lot of the, the questions or the technical nature of things that come in front of us. And you always get this comment, I need to refer back to capital before I can respond. And then a few day, days later, you get a response where we knew what we wanted to say, we knew what our mission was, and we were very reactive. We were very, we were able to get our, our message across the line and communicate clearly to a lot of people. Now, did we find a lot of consensus of people agreeing with us? I would say this is where your challenge and diplomacy comes in is, you know, obviously we have a lot different view in the EU Green Deal, farm to Fork Initiative than we do US or ar Argentine or Brazil or, or Australia, New Zealand or UK agriculture. We're kind of at odds with the eu. So it's, it is trying to find that middle ground. Where can you find consensus and build that bridge to make sure that you have food systems that are successful. And unfortunately, we get a lot of debate in Rome, so this is where diplomacy comes in.

Vance Crowe [00:14:17] Well, that's a really interesting insight that you just had. I think most people in the, in the elite part of society believe that the US and the EU are always getting closer and closer and closer to working together and being on the same team. But to hear you say that there's a tension between those two, how would you describe that? Like, what is the goal that the United States is after and what's the EU after and what's the delta between those two?

Kip Tom [00:14:42] The, the Delta's pretty significant right now, be very honest with you, and we've, we've worked on this a long time. And so is the USJ Economic Research Service, they, they've looked at the EU Green Deal, farm to Fork Initiative. They know the systems we have in place in the United States. And I'll say this, the, the goals of the EU Green Deal Farm to Fork initiative are, are some of the same shared goals that we have, you know, lower in our, lower our carbon footprint, have less impact on the environment and, and animals and our ecosystems. Making sure that we can provide safe, nutritious food for people around the world that's shelf stable. A lot of the same goals. But at the same time, our, the way we want to get there is different. If you look at the EU Green deal, for instance, they're wanting to set aside another 10% of land. Well, the United States has already set aside nearly 200 million acres since the late eighties. So we've already done that. We've already set aside land, really not bringing new land into productivity. They wanna lower the carbon footprint. We've accomplished a lot of that already, and we're gonna accomplish more. If you look at the dairy industry as an example, the dairy industry's gonna be carbon neutral by 2050. They plan on being 25% carbon neutral by, I think it's 2030. So they're making inroads. But crop production's doing the same thing. The data analytics that we use on our farms data, make sure we don't apply any more fertilizer or pesticides than we have to. There's all kinds of things we've been doing to make sure we achieve these goals. We are stakeholders in our environment, we're stakeholders in the resources we have here to use that.

Kip Tom [00:16:15] We transfer from generation to generation to continue to feed this world. But the Euros and, and the United States and the United States along with Canada, oftentimes Brazil, Argentina, the UK at times, and certainly Australia and New Zealand, we're lined up and we're, we're not falling in bed or falling in line with the EU Green Deal. At the same time, the Euros are going across Africa, Latin America, Asia, and saying, you need to be a part of this system and embrace the standards that we're wanting to be going to almost 50% organic by, I think 2025 or 2030. I forget what the date is, what that's, and at the same time, understanding that productivity is gonna go down and not use it. Bring any new land into productivity. So it's, it's, there's a misunderstanding here that they don't understand it. If you lower productivity, I understand food waste needs to go away. Let's face it, you know, we waste 30% of our food in the world today. Whether it's from the farm to the, to the, to the place where it's processed or it gets to the customer and then to the customer. There's waste. But there's ways we can get this accomplished. But, you know, the system they're wanting to go to, we're not gonna feed the world. In fact, I'll say this, it's the EU Green Deal. Farm to Fork Initiative is an indulgence of the rich. It's indefensible scientifically, and it is indefensible morally. And that is the most important one to me. And that's why we've been standing up against it. At the same time, it will affect trade around the world too.

Kip Tom [00:17:49] But my number one goal when I was in, in, in Rome, was to focus on the people who are food insecure, the most vulnerable. And the system they're promoting will go nowhere to feed our growing population around the world. Africa as a continent alone is gonna double its population by 2050. They can't feed themselves today. You know,

Vance Crowe [00:18:09] To me, to me the, the, the idea that you would waltz into Africa and tell them that they should use less efficient systems is akin to evil because it is the sowing of suffering where it doesn't need to exist. And if you had some kind of moral compunction against GMOs, okay, fine, but the, but the stultified nature of organic seems to me that that would be a very aggressive move to put on a continent that is clearly waking up and is going to have so many mouths to feed that we can barely comprehend it.

Kip Tom [00:18:41] Yeah. So certainly, I mean, it, it, it is clear that, you know, we look at the organization, the Food and Agriculture organization in Rome under its past leadership director Graziano was more falling down this pathway of agroecology, which is what the, the EU Green Deal Farm Fork Initiative is trying to solve the, the, the issues that we have with our $8 trillion food supply chain in the world today. And, you know, they, they were trying to cut out. They wanted to make sure everything was grown locally. But we all know that, you know, if you have a drought locally, obviously you're not gonna have food. There is a reason our food systems have become complex, but yet they are able to move food around the world and make sure people have food to eat. I know in what we do at the World Food Program, the ships we have on the ocean water, that in moving food that, you know, we might see a change in the demand and all of a sudden with a click on a phone, a few few snaps, and we got that ship headed another direction to get food there. So there's just different elements that EU green deal that just don't make sense. One thing for certain, and the USDA economic research service indicated that there would be upwards of $1.1 trillion of societal we welfare occur if it was fully adapted around the world. Now we know that's not gonna happen. It's not gonna be fully adapted. But even if it's half that, even if it's a third debt, $1.1 trillion, we've already doubled our, our budget, what we put into the World Food Program in the last four years. United States is a $3.7 billion in the World Food Program of their eight, eight and a half billion dollar project.

Kip Tom [00:20:17] Right? Eight, eight and a half billion dollar budget for a year. This next year we're looking at 11 billion. We have to create resilience and capacity building. 'cause we cannot afford to continue to just give humanitarian aid away. We need to hold countries responsible. We need to give political leaders the will and make sure they have, they are committed themselves to use their resources to feed themselves and using science to bring along the way. Now, one final thing, and I'll turn it back to, to you. It is, I am not against organic. I am not against those that want to use regenerative farming practices. I believe all of 'em should exist, but let's make sure that we don't block one over the other if someone

Vance Crowe [00:20:59] Or then people go hungry because, because that raises the prices so much because you've created such a low supply that demand can't be met.

Kip Tom [00:21:07] Absolutely. I mean it, you know, I, I've met so many small holder farmers, they've just given up. They've given up hope. You know, we, we know one thing for certain, when people cannot feed themselves, they lose hope. They'll migrate twice within their own country and then they'll go outside their borders. Once they go outside their borders, they're subject to human trafficking number. Numbers are nearly 21 million people a year. 21 million people a year get human trafficked. This is where some of 'em come from is when they're migrating because they've given up hope. They can't feed themselves. They get involved in extremism. You know, secretary Pompeo was very good at communicating that message is we need to make sure that we create resilience and capacity or bring in humanitarian aid because we don't need growth and extremism. 'cause that growth and extremism causes the, gets us to the point where we don't have our national security, whether it's ours or whether it's some other friendly nation out there. We've gotta have that. So it's important upon us, it's behoove of the United States to make sure we play our role in advocating for food systems that can let these people stay at home, produce, run their families, create economic benefit, improve their schools, their healthcare systems, their their lifestyle, and give children young people hope. And we haven't done that.

Vance Crowe [00:22:23] So you are one of those people that worked under the Trump administration and now there's a whole bunch of people that say anybody that was under the Trump administration should not be allowed to be employed or they should be pushed out of society. Have you felt any of that? Or is that just news rhetoric?

Kip Tom [00:22:41] I, you know, I, I think it probably depends. You know, I haven't felt it, I'll be honest with you. I haven't felt, I haven't seen it anywhere yet. Maybe it's going on, I don't know it. But I have heard about it. And I hope that's not the case. I mean, I think we're a better country than that. There's a lot of good people working inside the Trump administration that have, have the best interest of the United States in mind. And I hope that they're not ignored for future opportunities for themselves to give back to our country and, and deliver to the private sector at the same time.

Vance Crowe [00:23:12] So when you go to be an ambassador, what is it that you personally are hoping to achieve while you're there? And when, when you spent your time there, did you achieve what you set out to do?

Kip Tom [00:23:25] Well, you know, when, when you arrive to post, you know, you have a lot of ambitions, you have a lot of objectives you want to accomplish. And, and I had some pretty far reaching when I kept my eye on those goals. And I'll say this at USUN, our, our embassy for a small staff running the second largest, or excuse me, having the oversight over the second largest set of budgets for international organizations for the us we were busy and we kept our eye focused on really trying to improve food systems, improve the accountability, the traceability, excuse me, accountability and transparency of these UN organizations, making sure that they were operating fairly, but at the same time, they're delivering on the results. You know, we talk about efficiency all the time, but we need to talk about effectiveness. And my goal was to make sure that not only were we efficient, we were effective, but we would stop measuring outcomes by how much money we spent. We measure outcomes by the results. And this is where we, we talked about that a lot. And obviously I, I served along 194 ambassadors and permanent representatives at the Food and Agriculture organization. Now you talk about complexity in understandings of agriculture and what they believe is a, a food system that works. There's a lot of variety there. And it was a lot of work. But one that it was an experience for me, I would never turn down again. I, I really enjoyed it, appreciated the opportunity. It was an honor to serve. But we did accomplish a lot of our goals.

Kip Tom [00:24:57] And I think we're on the trajectory. Would I have liked to have more time there? I was only there 20 months. Yes. I would've liked to have more time there. I think we could have seen further, but some of the names I'm hearing of potential candidates to go serve in that ambassador's role. I'm pretty confident that we're gonna see that continued momentum to help advance food systems that can feed that hungry world and make sure that United States trade remains strong at the same time.

Vance Crowe [00:25:26] So you went from being a farmer to then being an ambassador. So suddenly you have power, or at least the perception of power and people are coming to you looking for things. What was the experience like of being in a position where people saw you as somebody that could radically alter either their position or the position of their country or of their overall political situation?

Kip Tom [00:25:49] Well, you know, the United States is well respected in terms of understanding our, our commitment and contributions to these different UN organizations, whether it's a world food program or f or any one of 'em. So it's, there's, there's a money component that kind of gives you the power. But the, on the other hand, it's our commitment, our our, our personal commitment. It's our commitment as a nation to really standing behind our values to make sure we do have impact on lives. And I think it, it takes a little while to get that, that point across there. But we did it very early on after my arrival there with different events we held at the residents and our communications within the organizations as we held meetings. But we didn't abuse our power. I really don't feel we did. I, I felt that we communicated strength and we communicated our values of what they were, and we give 'em a little different perspective. They weren't used to hearing what we had to say about whether it was GMOs or use of fertilizer. That argument had been going on for a year, excuse me. That discussion had been going on for years. But there was very little pushback on, you know, not using fertilizer, pesticides, those things like that. So we had a voice and we were very effective with it. And I, I, I believe it will continue our, our staff at USUN, our folks in poly or poly econ department, our folks at U-S-A-I-D and the USDA are all very strong voices and I'm, I'm, I'm sure that we're gonna continue that message there.

Vance Crowe [00:27:24] So you earlier mentioned agroecology. Could you describe what that is and where did this push come from for, for agroecology all over the US and really all over the world?

Kip Tom [00:27:35] Yeah, so agroecology in itself its own definition, it is, it, you know, obviously it means working with the, the environment ecology, agriculture, protecting the environment, all those things. But it's been co-opted by those, mainly in the European Union. A few countries in Latin America, a few in Southeast Asia that believe that we can grow crops without really taking care of the crop. You know, just dropping a seed, any seed from a prior crop in the ground and without a whole lot of care of giving it nutrients or, or dealing with the pests that are gonna be invading, whether it's a, an insect or disease or giving it to the nutrients it needs to sustain, its its life and produce a crop that's abundant for people. Agri college goes against using any, anything that's synthetic at all. It goes against using GMOs. Crispr, Cassie, you know, CRISPR Cass nine technology has not been accepted by agroecology. I would say it, it's, it's, it's foundational roots probably come from the European Union, probably more specifically from the France. From France. They've really promoted it on this ideological system that what candidly is gonna fail and it's gonna fail miserably and it's gonna cost lives. And we have, we've tried different, I'll be straight up honest with you here, we've tried different ways to counter their voice in this. And we've been pushing back very hard, very vocal. We've also said, let's get together, let's talk, let's see how we can work together and you can go ahead and promote ecology, but we're gonna promote this system as well too.

Kip Tom [00:29:14] 'cause it, it's gonna take both of 'em to meet the challenge of feeding a growing world. It's gonna be nearly nine and a half or potentially 10 billion people like 2050. So let's work together on this. Let's stop using all our energy. And so we've tried that approach, but with very little success, it's more pushback of, no, we're gonna keep pushing only agroecology. So yeah, it's, it's practiced in the United States in places. But the reality is, I think there's so many people that, that wanna embrace it. They don't really understand the total demand for food in the world today. You know, I have, you know, I I embrace all, like I said, all food systems, ecology, organic, regenerative and Foley commercial crops, but they don't want accept ours. But yet you'll have people in, for instance, that does a rooftop garden in New York City that really think they're the solution for the feeding the world. Well there's certainly, I, I embrace that. That's good. Feed your, feed your floor on your building if you want, or feed a couple floors or maybe the restaurant that's down below or in within a block. That's all good. But I think a lot of people lose sight of the amount of food it takes to feed the 7.8 billion people around the world today. How, how do you make it shelf stable? How do you make sure that it's something that you can put on an ocean vessel and get somewhere, you know, granted, yeah, we'd love to see more of it come back locally and we can continue to do that. But you need to produce all crops. Everyone's diet's different, right? Somebody that lives on an island of newie in, in the Southwestern Pacific has a diet that's much different than somebody that lives in Germany or the United States or Argentina.

Kip Tom [00:30:52] So you need to make sure that it's in the context of local, the food pro production that takes place. And it fits in with the systems that they have in their ecology.

Vance Crowe [00:31:03] A lot of people were worried about mass famine when coronavirus hit and now all of a sudden workers can't go out and they're very afraid to be farming. Did that actually happen? Are we seeing increased levels of starvation because of COVID?

Kip Tom [00:31:19] I think I, I I think you're seeing more of the indirect impacts of COVID affecting lives more than anything else. You know, if I look at food systems in the United States, let's, you know, we know what happened in our livestock processing plants. Yeah, the pig, the poultry, it was a people issue, right? And I think since then we've seen some changes come about and they got back up. But, you know, people looked at that and they said, see, the US system is flawed. They've shut down. They can't produce poultry meat or pork or beef or things like that. But the reality is that supply chain, that person that was producing the young pigs, that a person who was producing the, the, the fattening of the hogs, the person that was then processing them later, that's a supply chain is very coordinated. But it was very resilient. It came back up and running as soon as they got past this people issue at the processing plant. And that same goes for poultry, same goes for the, for the beef. I think a lot of our systems came back up and were successful. I think there's still some issues probably pending because of the amount of human resources it takes and a lot of our vegetables, for instance, and the Southern United States or in the San Joaquin Valley in, in California, that there's still some issues there. But I'm convinced that the American innovation will come along and figure out how to get it done and still be the main supplier of those food stuffs. What I'm gonna say is, is that the indirect impact of COVID is probably gonna kill more people than COVID has in country or incontinence like Africa.

Kip Tom [00:32:51] In Africa, from March of 2020 till sometime in the summer, we had recorded there was over 350 million new unemployed African workers, 350 million, that's the size of the United States unemployed all of a sudden. So people that were making, you know, were, had a job making some money, could buy their food resources, now don't have a job. So we're in there with humanitarian aid. Now, like I said, our, our budget is extremely stressed. Executive director will David Beasley, the World Food Program has been diligent going around the world, trying to raise additional capital to bring in, to make sure that we can feed and meet this crisis. We, we see it as almost as probably the worst humanitarian crisis since World War ii. And it's because of the indirect impacts of COVID. When I was in Sudan a week and a half ago, a person came up to me and they were translating for me, but he said, basically he said, I would rather die of COVID than I would a starvation. And the same goes for my family. I would just, I, I can't, I can't imagine, you know, we're, we are starving now, we're living on three to 400 calories a day per person. And they're slowly losing weight. And believe me, we're pushing as much food in there as we can, but we can't meet at all. And we got, you know, we got situations in Yemen, we feed 12 or 12 and a half million people there. We've got Somalia, we got Syria, we got Syrian camps in, in Lebanon right now that we're feeding.

Kip Tom [00:34:23] So it's, it's just, it continues to grow at the same time. We're running out of capacity, running outta money. And this is where the food and agriculture organization of the past failed, failed miserably in creating resilience capacity. 'cause these countries, Nigeria, Nigeria, Sudan, all the way across the Sahel and on South could have been feeding themself, but instead they haven't built those systems up. The other issue

Vance Crowe [00:34:48] Is that because we're giving them too much food in, in the sense that they, the leaders can, don't have to put resources towards food production because they're getting it from donations.

Kip Tom [00:34:58] Part of it, part of it could be that we, we continue to encourage leaders like we were last week in Sudan is, you know, you need to open up your, your, your policy and allow innovations to come in. One of 'em was bring, allow GMs to come in. You know, I met with farmers large and small and they said we have, we're using genetics that are 40 years old. We have extreme amounts of fall, army worm, we have now the desert, locust, African desert locusts, but yet we're not allowed to use pesticides. We're not allowed to use GM crops. That is itself is creating part of starvation. This is where the French and a lot of Europeans have been going across Africa and saying, you don't wanna allow GMs in, you don't wanna allow the use of pesticides or fertilizer. And this is why Africa remains a food insecure connet. It, it's unexcusable it shouldn't have happened, but it's where we're at today and I'm convinced we're we're getting the traction out to make the difference. That's one of the things I'm doing in Sudan right now to take global leaders of, of different agricultural organizations, people involved in supply chain from from the Farm gate to value add production and get involved in Sudan. Especially since we've signed Abraham Accords, bringing in that investment activity and making sure we improve food security.

Vance Crowe [00:36:18] It, so I lived in Africa for a little while and you know, there's a huge section of it that just doesn't have enough water. They've, they've got desert conditions, but there is no place on earth that gets more terawatts of energy from the sun. And the fact that they are not food independent in the way that I think they could be has always baffled me and, and like on on, like, I would never want to be the person that cuts off food aid. So people starve. But the question becomes are there the, are the downsides of food aid always worth it? You know, when one of the big things that I studied in graduate school was what happens when we start delivering aid and then the people with guns end up getting it right and then they get to distribute it and then you're, it's essentially handing them money. Do you see very much of that going on right now? That, that the food that we're delivering doesn't actually go through the systems that we set up and instead has to be distributed through warlords?

Kip Tom [00:37:15] The simple answer is yes, and it's much worse than most realized. If you could take Yemen as an example, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna throw a number out there, but it could be of the, you know, 130 to $140 million a month, hundred 30 to $40 million a month that goes into Yemen for food security. Nearly 30% of that could be so siphoned off to the side and used to buy guns and armament to fight the battle between them and the Saudis. So, you know, it goes on, but it goes on Somali, it goes on everywhere. But we've done everything we can at the World Food Program. We've got facial recognition to make sure we're giving food resources to the right person. They're about ready to go to ear recognition. 'cause I guess it's better than the facial recognition, but they're doing everything they can to make sure they're giving food to the right people and not giving twice the amount or the wrong amount. So, but anyway, in Yemen, for as an example, we may load up a truck in Sauna and head it out through the country to go to some remote village somewhere to make a delivery. But some of those trucks are stopped 45 times to get to that last mile. And every time they're stopped, you don't know if it's somebody that's gonna shoot you or what. So they give 'em a little more food and they may not be an intended recipient. So there goes our aid. So it's, it's really difficult. And I I think you've probably seen what's been going on in Yemen over the past three weeks here in terms of

Vance Crowe [00:38:39] No, no, I have absolutely no idea what's happening in Yemen,

Kip Tom [00:38:42] Whether there's some, there's some discussions that's been going on about whether the Houthis would be designated as as a terrorist organization. So that's, that's taking a little bit of a different perspective of how we look at food aid there. Right now. Again, we continue to try to deliver as much as we can to make sure we're doing the right humanitarian thing to support the people of Yemen. 'cause the Yemenese have suffered a lot. But you know, like I said, this goes on in Somalia, it goes on Sudan, South Sudan, everywhere. But the World Food Program has really working diligently to create systems to reduce the aid, getting siphoned off into some of these other obscure channels that are used for other things besides solving hunger.

Vance Crowe [00:39:30] It's a pretty awesome responsibility to be, to be in the role that you're in, where people's lives hang in the balance as long as you and your teams can keep up the systems and the deliveries and the relationships. Did you have trouble sleeping at night?

Kip Tom [00:39:47] I think everybody has trouble sleeping at night. That's, that is involved with this. It it is, it's not about thinking about the child you fed today. It's about the child you didn't feed today. And that's what keeps you up at nights. It's what creates the emotion that, that upsets a lot of us over time because there's many that we're not getting to, you know, we're feeding 130 million people around the world right now in 85 countries. The World Food Program is, but we see that number almost doubling over the next year because of COVID, because of the impacts of COVID. So that's of extreme concern when we know that we have budget shortfalls, we need more money to not only make the humanitarian assistance work and, and feed people, but at the same time while we're there, let's create resilience capacity. But it takes the political will of prime ministers, presidents, those in government in these countries to allow technology innovation, other farming systems to come in. Nearly 70 to 80% of the places where we're delivering food aid around the world are in the midst of a manmade conflict. It used to be the end of the world food program went out and they delivered food aid when they had a tsunami, earthquake, volcano, eruption, whatever, those kinds of natural disasters today, it's all manmade conflict. So if we could have an, an impact on that manmade conflict, which we don't know it could have been caused because of hunger to start with. So it's kind of a vicious circle.

Kip Tom [00:41:19] But what we need to do, and I keep repeating this, is create resilience capacity, but it takes the political will of the nation's leaders to allow these technologies to come in.

Vance Crowe [00:41:30] Well, the political will is an interesting concept. One of the best books I read after graduate school was a book called The Dictator's Handbook, the Rules for Rulers. And it, it just did a very good job of outlining when you get to the heights of power in a small republic where, where force is a big component of it, change is your enemy because change means that some, some part of that system might not be in the same way. You may not be able to extract value out of it and then be able to use that value to distribute to your friends and to your political partners. And that's, it's one of those things where I went into the World Bank imagining that the world was much more simple, that there were good guys and there were bad guys. But as you play the game longer, you start finding out, well, if I was in his position, I think I might both view myself as the good guy and be willing to do many of the things that he's doing. And I think that that's one of the complexities about being in your world is that you have to, if you hold everybody to account by the standards of an Indiana farmer, they'll never, they'll they'll never match up, right? Because their worldview is just so different.

Kip Tom [00:42:41] Yeah, I I would say this, it it's, we have to find a place where we can make an example of a country that gets this right. And this is why we feel particularly excited about Sudan following the Abraham Accords. The agreement between Sudan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Israel, United States to where religious freedoms are, are now allowed. Everybody can coexist. We have a leader, prime Minister Hamok, that is very interested. He sees agriculture as the main pillar of rebuilding their nation, the first one that needs to be stood up. And so he's really excited about allowing innovation to come in, making sure that we can get the International Development Finance Corporation in, we can bring in the World Bank and we can really have an impact on changing lives. And I think once we, once we prove this concept and bring it forward where they're using GMOs, an example where they have fall armyworm in Sudan, all of a sudden all of some of these member states or these other countries around them all of a sudden understand that, hey look, it's working over there. But that, how did it happen? It's because the political leader of the country had the will and the commitment to stand behind it and push the corrupt behaviors and activities that's taken place in the past off to the side and understanding, doing what's best for their people. And that's what we need to continue to do.

Vance Crowe [00:44:07] From your firsthand view, a place like Africa, there is a lot of Chinese movement into the diplomacy world. Is China in the food game? Are they also providing humanitarian aid need?

Kip Tom [00:44:21] China is a very small contributor to the World food program, very small. I think they're even under France. France commits I think 19 million a year. As I said, US is 3.7 billion a year. China's even less than France. I think they've had very low commitment. Now that's not to say they haven't put a lot of money into Africa. We know for instance, China's been very effective in, in, with contracting of natural resources throughout the continent,

Vance Crowe [00:44:54] Train lines and office parks being involved with the World

Kip Tom [00:44:56] Bank and doing loans to, to build infrastructure that maybe hasn't been as successful as it should have been. So there's been a lot of interest by China. There's no doubt they're probably the biggest player in, in investing in other things in, in Africa. Maybe not food security, but in other things, but not necessarily to the benefit of the African nations. And I think this is where we have a difference. So United States goes in with capacity and, and, and contributions and, and compassion. Whereas China goes in and brings money in, but there's always a hook, there's always something we want back for ourselves. And I think this is where, you know, they need to change their behaviors. At the same time, I think we need to look at aid a little bit differently. Not as though we should pull aid away, but I think we should look at it saying, listen, we've been feeding people in your, in your nation for four generations now. I can't imagine, first of all, being a young person growing up in a family that's been under four generations of living only on humanitarian aid. No jobs, no economic benefits, no real good healthcare, no schooling, no education. That's not sustainable. So this is where I think we, we need to look at of going in like we're, you know, planning to do in sedan, create the economic opportunities to bring in jobs to, to improve food security, to improve lifestyles and, and education, healthcare. So that's why I'm so excited about the opportunities in sedan. But we need to shine the spotlight on them as we show that success.

Kip Tom [00:46:30] But that's the way I think we need to look at AIDS saying, listen, you've got the capacity to do it. Here's your timeline. Start to make sure this works soon. We really do.

Vance Crowe [00:46:39] Yeah, I mean man, it's, I I would applaud anybody that would do that. 'cause I'm totally in agreement. So I, when I worked at the World Bank, my experience was mixed. There were things that I saw there that I thought if some, if they weren't doing it, nobody would and things would fall through the cracks. But that you also see that many of the times when they do the handouts, they're, the handouts are not ultimately bringing up capacity. So I'm completely with you, but I cannot imagine the political will that would be required to pull back on some of those programs if people didn't meet their criteria. I mean, we don't even pull back money when they don't meet their loan criteria. I can't imagine we would do it if it was food.

Kip Tom [00:47:18] Yeah, it's, it's, it is not gonna be an easy discussion. It's not gonna be easy to make it happen. But the reality is, you know, it needs, it has to happen. We cannot sustain a continent's gonna double its population yet can't feed itself today, can't even, doesn't have any economic opportunity. And I can tell you that not only will different countries around the world's own security and peace be at at risk, so will the United States of America. And that's why I say it's, it's, it's, it should be behooven of us to make sure that we hold these countries committed and and accountable to the dollars we're bringing in to make sure that their people are benefiting from it.

Vance Crowe [00:47:59] Yeah, I mean Norman Borlaug was the one that was kind of credited with, if, if people have empty stomachs, they're going to go to war. So you need to fill their stomachs in order to make them not that way. So let's turn stateside, you're returning back to the United States, to the place that is growing all this food. What are you observing about the US agricultural system now that you've been out and about in the world that you hadn't noticed before?

Kip Tom [00:48:22] Yeah, you know, the US system, it, it's, it's, it's always been the US agriculture production supply chains have always been evolving. I mean, a lot of people wanna look at food systems and we're, we've been having discussion around the UN food system summit very frequently for the past 10 months. But, and some people will look at the US food system and say, we need to reinvent everything. Well, the reality is, no we don't. As an example, in 1920, we had 2 billion people on the face of the earth and nearly 80% were living in poverty today. We had nearly 7.8 billion people on the face of the earth. And under 10% are living food insecure. So, you know, our food system in the United States has continued to evolve. It's gotta continue. It needs to continue. We need to bring in more digitization, we need to bring in more of the CRISPR technologies, GM technologies, data analytics. There's just so much that we can do to increase productivity, protect our environment. But one of my biggest components, and one of the things I see that is missing in US agriculture, and this comes back to producers, is we need to be more conscious of what goes on around the world. Because we do not just exist within our borders. If we think that's the case, if we think we're just isolationists, we're gonna be, we're gonna run into trouble down the road because policy that takes place in the EU that gets promoted across the continent of Africa or Southeast Asia will have an impact on trade.

Kip Tom [00:49:54] And that trade will have an impact on the crops that we produce in the United States. So I wanna encourage farmers to take more of a global perspective of what's going on in terms of policy advocacy and get involved. I mean, let's face it, in the past farmers say, you know, I don't need to worry about that. I'm gonna let the Corn Growers Association, soybean Growers Association, sunflower, canola, whatever, they're gonna take care of being my voice. Well, yeah, they will, they're gonna be out there in front. But you need to get involved too. You need to get involved with those organizations, but you need to educate yourself as well. This is, this is about the crops you grow, your family's legacy, the, the businesses you operate. And I think it's critically important that the American farmer understand this. And I think for the most part, a lot of us get caught up in our daily business routines of taking care and it's a busy life, right? But we have our own challenges here at home, but we need to take a broader perspective, and this is what I, one of the things I would promote.

Vance Crowe [00:50:56] So you are a large scale firm, a lot of acreage, and right now I see a movement in the US probably been going on for a long time, which is a move away from commod commodification. So people trying to move into things like agri ecology or organic, because they're saying, look, if I play the game by the rules of size, I can't compete because the margins are so small that I have to have economies of scale. And so therefore I'm gonna go into these niche things. What do you think the future of niche markets are for the American farmer?

Kip Tom [00:51:30] I, I think they're, I think they're bountiful. I think there's plenty of opportunities for those that don't want to go to larger scale. I mean, they may able run a niche opportunity to take it a large scale too. It's, it's the ability of them to create value out of that niche opportunity to sustain their business and make sure that they can continue to invest back in. What I don't appreciate, and this, and this goes for all forms of agriculture, is demeaning the other system. You know, for those that need to market their products and, and say why it's different than that produced by commercial means or using GM crops, it shouldn't be demeaning. Those of us that are using all these other technologies out here, because we, we all play a part here, but we're doing a lot of the heavy lifting. The commercial segment is the niche opportunities. They're good. I'm glad they're there. There's, I I've seen there, there's a, there's a, a farmer's union in Italy called quartered, and that's what they've done. They brought together in a co-op structure a lot of smaller farmers and helping them market 'em, brand their, whether it's their cheese or milk, goat milk or whatever product is that they're producing and helping them make sure they're sustaining their family business and they have no, no intent to grow, but they want to be able to make sure they can maintain their lifestyle. So that's fine. I mean, we, that's one of the benefits of living in the United States of America. It's a free country, free markets, but we need to, we need to call truce.

Kip Tom [00:53:02] It's it is time we start demeaning production agriculture, the large scale today, you know, as soon as you tag the word big or large to it, people just take, get fenced offended by it. And we need to stop that. We need to work together.

Vance Crowe [00:53:16] Yeah, there's like a weird, you know, you start putting an adjective on the way that the other guy is, and that adjective almost always puts you in the position of being somehow un unfair. Like they have an advantage over you or they're doing something not right. And I think one of the reasons that people do this naturally, it's not like they're taking marketing classes that are saying go disparage the other guy. It's that having a shared enemy is so good at getting everybody to the herd to come together and start fighting against something else. You've been out in the world, you came back to the United States. That seems very fractured. You know, the, the rural urban divide, I don't think has ever been wider in the history of time than it is right now. Do you see a good common enemy out there that can bind together the country in a way that we aren't right now,

Kip Tom [00:54:06] A good common enemy that we should come together with? I, I, I think the, the biggest thing is, is, you know, focusing on the, the enemy as I see it, is food insecurity around the world. Well, let's, let's go for the, the big targets and, and because it's, like I said, that is what is driving a lack of ability to achieve peace and security around the world. And whether you're producing something that's organic or commercially produced, our goals should be shared. And that is to improve food security. And that's, that's, that's the biggest issue that I see. And if I wanted to pick an enemy out, it's food insecurity and those that are standing in the way of allowing us to find a more food secure world.

Vance Crowe [00:54:50] Oh, there you go. It's the people that are standing in the way. I, that's an interesting, that turn on that,

Kip Tom [00:54:56] Believe me, I've said it many times in Rome and it catches attention, but it's, it's, it comes back to the ideologues that have very low understanding of what it takes to, to feed 7.8 billion people. And so what I said earlier, those idol ideologues that have this ideological view of food systems, it's, like I said, it's an indulgence of the rich, it's scientifically indefensible and it's morally indefensible. That's, that's what I see as a common enemy.

Vance Crowe [00:55:23] As we close out, Kip, I, you, you've been in a role that I think has an interesting experience tied to it, which is you are an independent person, you have your own thoughts, you have your own beliefs, and then you get put into a system where you are surrounded by people that all have competing interests, but you are not representing KIPP's beliefs, you're representing a nation, right? You're representing something larger than yourself. What did you learn about yourself by, by representing something bigger than you that wasn't always exactly the way you would've done it or the exactly the way that you would've wanted to shape it?

Kip Tom [00:56:01] You know, I don't know if it's to me individually, but, you know, I think I share things with other individuals and that's the, the compassion to see lives and livelihoods improved. There's no reason for people around the world to be living the way they are. And it's up to us to sound the alarm, to, to get involved and be advocates, to make sure that we, we do see a difference. And I think that's, that's one of the most powerful messages that we can say out there is I care. And it's, it's not about, it's not about so much for it. It is in fact, it's nothing about, for me as an individual, it's about what I can do for other people. And I think there's a lot of good people in the world that want to do that today, but just enabling their voice, getting them involved and helping them understand of just how can we do this together? And that's probably what I appreciate more than anything else. There's always gonna be arguments, different points of view, but we learn how to accept those and try to find the common ground or we can really have that impact. We have to get there. We, we've gotta stop the arguing.

Vance Crowe [00:57:09] So what's life gonna be like now that you are leaving the ambassador world? Are you gonna be a farmer? Are you gonna be out in the combine again?

Kip Tom [00:57:17] You know, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm keeping my options open here. I'm back living within five minutes of the farm. I've been there a few times since I've been back and you know, we've got a young team there that has been running it since I left. I think they need to do what they need to do. I'm here to support them in any way I can, but I'm gonna be looking for opportunities to make sure that I can have an impact, whether it's here in the United States or whether it's abroad, whether it's in food security or tech, or serving on boards and roles. I, I wanna have an impact on the future. I, it's, it's something I'm passionate about doing.

Vance Crowe [00:57:56] Well, Kip Tom, it is so good to, to see you again, to hear you talk. I, I have to say, I find you to be a, a man of integrity and a man worthy of respect. So I was so excited that we could make time to do this.

Kip Tom [00:58:09] Well, thank you for everything you're doing. You're, you know, the, the voice and your amplification of, of the message of individuals like me and others so critical that we need to get this out here for people to see. I, I think there's so much misunderstanding of who we are as a farmer or who the people in the supply chain are that are bringing us the tools to help us feed the world. And I think your engagement, your involvement, whether it's in your past career or where you're at today, is critical for us to make sure that we can change the world. So thank you for the opportunity.

Vance Crowe [00:58:43] The question that trips everybody up is what is your Twitter handle? If people wanted to follow you on Twitter

Kip Tom [00:58:48] At Kip Tom?

Vance Crowe [00:58:49] Alright. Most of the time people are like, I don't, I don't know. All right, I'll throw that in the show notes. Kip Tom, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Kip Tom [00:58:57] Take care. Pleasure talking to you.