How to Pivot Your Business During Crisis: A Leadership Coach's Coronavirus Strategy

Vance Crowe [00:00:00] A usual weekly meeting on Friday mornings where we talk about how are our businesses doing, what are we seeing out in the world? And in the last couple of months, that has changed rather dramatically because we went from talking about speaking in the agriculture world. Both of us do this. You run a, a very successful coaching business and help people think about how do I get to the next level? And we have shared a lot of just similar interests, but from a very different direction. You're from the rodeo world, the rodeo queen world with showmanship and horseback riding. And I come much more from the farming kind of big biotech world. So we've had a lot of crossover and have found these conversations to be very interesting. And I thought instead of us having our General Friday check-in, let's do a podcast and fi find out how are things going out in Colorado? What, what is Coronavirus 2020 look like for you and your family?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:00:56] Well, I was talking with my husband yesterday and we're like, wow, this has been a full four week, four weeks of lockdown for us. And that just blew my mind that for a month, this is the way we've been living. And it's, it's going okay. You know, I think that this has really forced us to have to look at each other in ways that we've never had to. I've had to engage with my kids in ways that I've never had to. And you know, if I try to say, is it all good? Is it all bad? You know, I am feeling overall pretty positive about it. You know, it sucks at the end of the day that you don't have the freedom to operate the way you want, but we're doing all right. And, you know, Colorado has been, I think, you know, obviously one of the hot spots, you look at all the news and we've got the big cities, you know, New York and all of that happening. But Colorado, when you look at the graphs, it's dark red. And so I think that there's, you know, a lot of, I don't know, a lot of leadership that's being shown by our small businesses that just blows my mind, which is super cool. I've seen our governor really step up and provide some leadership when we need it. So I think Colorado's doing all right, despite the crazy numbers.

Vance Crowe [00:02:07] And so, as a person in agriculture, what did you do to prepare when you finally started taking Coronavirus seriously? One, what made you take it seriously? And then two, what were your first actions once you realized, Hey, this is not gonna be like a snow day or a long weekend, this is gonna be something different.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:02:24] Well, I think that you were definitely somebody that helped me to see that this wasn't, you know, a fluke or, you know, something that was gonna be just a week or two long. And that, you know, we needed to prepare for the long haul. And so I remember after, you know, one of our calls about a month ago, I went out and I bought, you know, just some staples like rice and things, because I didn't wanna not have those supplies in the event that I needed them. And I remember I was on Twitter later that day and I saw a quote that was some, somewhere along the lines of, you know, you can do nothing or you can prepare and then not need it, and which, you know, which kind of path do you wanna be on? Do you wanna be caught with your pants down or do you want to like, be ready? And if you don't need it, you're like, oh, well cool, I I, I have some extra stuff that I'm gonna have and it's gonna be all right 'cause I'll still use it. So yeah, I went out and I prepared food wise, I made sure that I had things for the kids to keep them entertained. I made sure that we had a plan for the barn, like horses are a big part of my life and my horses about three miles up the road. And I knew that we were gonna have to have some kind of a strategy around how do I keep my family safe and still be able to take care of our animal, right? And so, because

Vance Crowe [00:03:40] Multiple families come down to those barns, you have like a lot of people in your neighborhood kind of thing,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:03:45] Right? And it's a small barn, so that's where we're really lucky in that respect. But I didn't, again, wanna just show up and not talk about it. And so I had some of those tough conversations. I talked with my husband and said, you know, we need to get on the same page. And at first he was like, I think you might be freaking out a little bit, Sarah, when I told him like, I need to go to the store immediately. And he was like, whoops, really? And but then, you know, he really, he followed my lead in that respect, and then he started to do what he needed to do for his job because he didn't work from home. You know, it was easy for me because I do, and this is, you know, I have small kids and I've worked from home with them here in the past. And so I didn't see that as such a, a challenge, but wanted to make sure he had the capacity to make sure he was gonna be cool from his, you know, employment standpoint. You know, just small things I feel. But at the, you know, I look back, I'm like, so happy I did.

Vance Crowe [00:04:40] So you are a powerful speaker, and I find very few people that I think use more energy than I do on a stage, but you do, you're like a, I don't even know, a sorcerer. You just grab the energy and then give it back to people Hugely amplified. So you being in person is, I don't wanna say everything, but it is a major component of how you are valuable at a conference and why people pay you to travel all over the country to come speak to their audiences. What has happened to your business since this, since the coronavirus?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:05:15] Well, I definitely have not booked as many speaking gigs, I'll tell you that. I have one that I've definitely, you know, I'm super excited about and it's in July. And so I had to change my contracts right immediately and say, all right, how do we deal with this force mayor or major, or whatever you wanna call it, right? And saying, you know, if this isn't gonna be a possibility, what are we gonna do? So that we're both gonna be in service to one another, right? And so it's not just gonna be, Hey, well we're canceled and go figure that out. So that's definitely shifted. I've also found that I've been doing some, an increased amount of private coaching because I have a lot of small business owners that I work with, and they're panicked. They wanna know what can they do. And it's been interesting. I have several that sell things that are makers, and they're not seeing a massive impact to their business right now, right? They're still selling, people are buying things, right? But they're worried about, well, what's gonna happen in three months or in six months? You know, that longer term when people are starting to close their purse strings from, you know, that kind of perspective. I've had a lot of podcasts requests that I wasn't seeing before, because people are desperate to have conversations that matter. You know, I don't, and I'm shocked by that. And they wanna talk about, you know, things that they didn't wanna talk about even a couple of months ago. And so I'm digging the fact that we can finally talk about things like the cattle markets and the mental health of people in ag, and what do we do to really show up versus, you know, shrink back and just kind of crush your fingers and hope it all works out.

Vance Crowe [00:06:57] Yeah, I think the most interesting part to me about the ag industry is, so you and I have talked many times about the Overton window, the ideas that are acceptable in a society, and then you have a catastrophe, and suddenly what everybody did as normal is no longer necessarily available. So now you have a whole bunch of ideas that used to be radical or even unthinkable that are allowed to come into society to test. And what I have observed is there are a few people that are starting to accept the world is going to be dramatically different. And in fact, we live in a post coronavirus world, but there's, most people are still in the, well, eventually we're gonna get to a post coronavirus world, but we're still in the old world. And, and so you're watching them use the same model of thinking that they were using pre for post, as opposed to saying, it's probably going to be wildly different. Where would you say you, you fall on that category? I haven't made the, the, the traditionalist seem very good, but where do you think you fit on that continuum?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:08:04] Wow, I was talking to somebody the other day and I'm like, man, I feel like I'm riding the fence, right? I've got one foot on either side. And that's a dangerous place to be. You have to pick. And so if I had to say, I think I'm in the future, and that's one of my strengths, right? One of the things I do with my coaching clients is I say, you know, what are those things that you're just naturally born with that we can maximize? And futuristic and input are two of my top. And so I'm already thinking, man, what's that next thing gonna be? What's that next golden opportunity? And the kind of opportunity I have right now is to focus on my own mindset. And so I'm working on, you know, what do I wanna be when I get to the other side? Because I think you're absolutely right. What we did a month ago though, that that way of thinking, it's gone, it's changed. And so although we might not have that full actualization, that, you know, everything is different, it's period. And so I'm headed that way.

Vance Crowe [00:09:00] So you were talking about two different, or about contracts and how they're changing. Two for me, that have changed, that have been really interesting. One I've mentioned before is that the Arizona beef producers, cattle producers, we were at a difference in price. And so they came to the idea, we came together like, I need beef and you guys need a speaker. Why don't we just work it out that you just mail me beef from various farmers on the lead up to this talk, and if you cancel it, then we'll just stop doing beef deliveries. So you're paying me as we go, and if for some reason I can't go, then I'll just buy that beef from you with, with a check if for some reason I can't make it. So everybody wins there. And, and it's an interesting and kind of fun way to do this. And I had another company that said, Hey, we wanna still book you we're willing to pay the deposit, but if you can't come, let's move this virtually. But we know that one hour virtually is not the same as one hour on the stage, so could we do it in a series of workshops? And I'm like, absolutely. This is great. We'll figure out what problems you guys are facing closer to the time and then we'll change it, right? So the people that have have been the most flexible and the most, like, let's think about things in different ways, are all finding cool ways to do business, which I think is the future.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:10:19] It is. And I was just watching Trevor Noah last night, and I loved seeing that the Waffle House decided that they're gonna start selling all of their mix online for the first time ever. And they sold out in one day and it was like, man, like they never would've done that before. And how cool that they pivot and ran with that, and now they're never gonna stop that, right? At least if you know, you asked me. And so yeah, you, you've gotta shift. And one of the biggest pieces of advice I have for entrepreneurs right now is that however your pricing structure was before, you cannot hang your hat on it. Whatever your product offer was, stop, reevaluate, and you better shift that because it is not gonna work, right? And so it, that means that's probably the most painful

Vance Crowe [00:11:05] Thing is you're saying that you're like, Ugh, I, it took me so long to work this out, to find the right balance to make it work with all of my different clients, and now I have to go reevaluate. I don't want to, like, that's

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:11:17] No tough

Vance Crowe [00:11:18] Because

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:11:18] I'm in love with my product, right? I, I worked hard to build it and, you know, it worked. I've got proof and all of that. But again, things have changed. And so my current coaching packages like different, right, the service delivery, you know, the way that we're talking with our people that we're gonna, you know, that organizations we're partnering with very different. Yeah, I, I didn't wanna talk about doing things virtually like I did it and I like it to some degree, but if I was given the choice, do I get to go and touch people live or online, right? I would always say, I wanna wanna be there in person, right? But now, like that's just not something that I need to worry about. I need to worry about serving, serving, serving, and in the way that makes the most sense for that person in front of me or that organization in front of me. So change your stuff, man.

Vance Crowe [00:12:07] Who do you see right now doing a good job of pivoting? You mentioned the Waffle House, that's a really good example, but what else are you seeing out in the world where you're like, Hey, that was an unexpected way to change and look what's happening or, I'm excited to see what happens.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:12:22] I think there's so many, there's a spa that I love going to up in Evergreen, and they have retail delivery now, and I was like, a spas doing retail delivery. How sweet is that? Right? I saw that. Even your, your friend that runs Strange Donuts, just yesterday I saw that they're doing bread baking kits and I think that's cool,

Vance Crowe [00:12:44] Right? Oh yeah, I didn't know that.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:12:45] Donuts over here. I'm like, but now you get, you buy a dozen and you get a couple of loaves of bread and the mix and all of that, and I think that's really, really critical. I saw some people putting together Easter basket, you know, kind of kits for families, because obviously I don't wanna run out to the store and grab all of these things. And so the creativity in the way that service is being delivered is blowing my freaking mind. And you know, just a simple thing, you know, having the insurance world, it's where my husband lives. They're all now doing their work on Zoom. And I think that that's a small thing. And everybody knows that Zoom's working or you know, some kind of virtual ways to, to deliver service, but it's freaking awesome. Like how cool is that? So

Vance Crowe [00:13:33] I mean, and it was interesting because Matt Ridley was on the other day. He's a man in his, I don't know, late sixties, early seventies. He's a member of the House of Lords and he was talking about how coronavirus forced everyone to become technologically proficient. And if you're that guy that was too manly or burly or you know, too old to be able to figure out your camera phone, well now you're out, now you're out the game. Get

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:13:59] Over it, right?

Vance Crowe [00:14:00] Get over it. So you've gotta get over it. And you've started seeing grandparents figure out how to use their phone. Like all the stuff that was a nuisance before for them to try and learn. Now people are learning, now people are figuring out what are my usernames to these various things. And it's interesting to see how the knock on effect this will be, because my hypothesis has been that for young kids, this virtual world is not as difficult as it is for adults. If you had dropped 18-year-old Vance into this world, you know, back in 2000, it would've been hell on Earth in my house. But you think about a kid growing up now, they're used to Minecraft and virtual reality and video games. So seeing their friends virtually was not nearly as jarring, I think for, for kids, as it was for people like us,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:14:46] Right? You know, both of my kids are in school, and so they're now using Google Hangout, they're, you know, using apps more than ever to learn. And man, if you haven't gone to the Chrome Music Lab, that is amazing. They can make all sorts of sounds and rhythms and visuals on the screen. So there's some really neat learning that's happening. And so, yeah, I think that they're cool, but they miss still the people. And so just this week for the first time, my son got to see his kindergarten class and it was the sweetest thing to watch his face. And he was typing in the chat and he said, I'm so glad you guys are here. And so they just are craving that social connection, and I'm so thankful that they can still see each other and talk using that kind of technology. It's beautiful.

Vance Crowe [00:15:33] What's your perception of how the ag world is viewing coronavirus? Are they happy under the quarantine? Are they ignoring it? What, what's your view from Colorado and maybe give a little bit of background on how do you know, how are you connected with ag right now?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:15:48] Well, I work with several different ag organizations, and again, a lot of the people that I coach come from the ag world, whether it's a cattle association or it's, you know, farm bureau, something like that. And so I'm having a lot of conversations, not only just in the United States, but in other parts of the country or the world. And I find a divide. I find that there's those who are really stepping up and leading and really trying to have the conversations that matter. Like what do we do in the branding situation? What are we gonna do in sale barns? We cannot stop the flow of commerce, right? And so I think that those, those people, like, it's so good. And the content that I'm seeing coming out is fantastic. But then as I'm having conversations too, I hear the, yeah, well we've been social distancing our whole life, right? And so we're good. We've got it. And you know, our freezers are stocked because this is just the way that we live. And so I don't know why everybody's panicking. And so there's a lot of judgment that's going around, I think for those that are, you know, getting toilet paper and things and they're like all those idiots out there. But the thing that's really weighing heavy on my mind are those that think that it's immune. Like it's not gonna come to me. It's, it's a big city problem. And I think that in rural America, we're starting to see, you know, trends where, you know, it's obviously there, shocker, shocker. But until somebody's personally impacted, I think that some people are just like, yeah, this is a bunch of bull and we need to get back into business. And that scares me. You know, there's, we don't wanna talk about it, but we've got an older population when we talk about ag.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:17:25] And so I was talking with somebody from Arizona just yesterday and she said, you know, I was traveling, I had been out of the country and so I've been in quarantine for the past, you know, couple of weeks. And I'm just now coming back to the farm because, you know, my grandparents lived there, my parents lived there, and I was terrified that I would be the one that would bring it back. And you know, she said, I met some resistance. And they're like, why don't you just, just come on over, you know, come and give me a hug. You know, why are you having to do this? It's like, wow, you know this, it's a big deal. I think now that the markets are freaking out, people are maybe thinking a little bit differently, but I'm, I'm worried Vance.

Vance Crowe [00:18:02] And so the other day I saw, I I, so I am all about people pushing new ideas into society right now or listening to as many as you can because the old system was set up and it worked for what we had. And now new systems are gonna grow up. And I am definitely not the picker to be like that system over there. It should change and we should just get rid of it. I do not have enough insight, but I am open to hearing what as many different people are saying. And one of the things that I noticed, so I tuned in on an r af thing the other day, and they are still talking politics as though the way to solve the beef problem that we have right now, which is grocery stores have to carry it. People are having high demand, they wanna stock their freezers. There's only so much capacity. These producers, these packing houses have to worry about our workers getting sick and the, and the product. So I decided to stop in and listen to this R calf thing and thought, Hey, what a great thing they're gonna be talking about important issues. And they weren't, they were talk, I mean, they're important issues, I don't wanna say that, but the, the way in which they're going about solving today's problem seems like way disconnected from what I think is important. Where are you at on that?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:19:22] I think that there are some organizations that are using Corona for their own political agendas. And I, I'm really sad about that because I don't think that country of origin labeling, for instance, has anything to do with our markets right now because our consumers are not demanding it. And so you can slice it and dice it anyway that you want, but that's just not the case. People just wanna have beef in their mouths right now. And so I hate that we're even like trying to go down that road 'cause that's not what matters right now. I think that a couple of thoughts. I love that this is forcing people to be more entrepreneurial. The amount of people in my world that are now trying to figure out how to sell direct is astounding. And I'm so excited because that's what people want, right? They want that personal connection. They wanna make a good economic return because I mean, that's life. We wanna have that kind of opportunity. So that's cool. But I also recognize that you can't avoid the political side, right? The policy is required to shift the masses as much as I hate it. And so you have to have both. I also think that nothing's gonna change right now, no matter how many letters we're gonna write to Washington DC officials or how many Facebook lives we do. Like, I don't think that it's that big of an issue until people come together.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:20:56] 'cause we've got this voice saying this, another voice saying that this voice saying another thing and it looks so disjointed, right? So I think Vance that all big breakthroughs require break widths and this stuff is breaking. And I might not be that mad about it because there's gonna be something that's gonna come out on the other sides that that's really beautiful, honestly. So I don't know, that wasn't a really great, like yeah, great answer. But

Vance Crowe [00:21:22] I mean, it's just an interesting, I think that everyone is using Well, no, I, okay. I think that this kind of goes back to our original comment about they're either the traditionalists or the futurists and the traditionalists are oftentimes the people that are saying the sickness is so bad that we just gotta hunker down. And, and once we get that solved, then we'll move into the new world. But not until that's solved. And then you've got the futurists that are over here saying, Hey, everything's different. The rules are up in the air, let's go run around and do new things. But you have to have that backed on. Our system was the most efficient system ever created in the history of time. And yes, it has some challenges. Like I can't just go fill up a freezer full of beef right now without taking away beef from all of my other neighbors or out competing them for it. So I want some alternative system. But the system we had delivered beef to us consistently for 50 years safely, 60 years, whatever it was. And so it's an interesting time to be saying, I want change when the system that we had brought us a lot of really amazing things,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:22:29] Right? We've got the safest, most nutritious, wholesome, I mean, on demand system in the freaking world. Like we are so, like we don't, we don't know how good we've got it, right? But when we start hearing stories about farmers and ranchers who aren't making any money, in fact they're in the red like all the time. Like that's, that's weird. When then you see the profits on the other side, you know what happens when the beef's in the box, right? That just fundamentally is, is doesn't make sense. We gotta take care of our people. And so the humanness that we bring to it, the logic that matters. And so the supply chain is long for our food. We gotta figure a way to make it stronger, not longer.

Vance Crowe [00:23:17] One of the, the things that I, so the other day I posted on Twitter about how I'm seeing people talk about price gouging and how terrible price gouging is because you're watching prices go up and people have demands, and so they don't want price gouging, but the flip side of that is prices going up forces it. So you can't just say, well I have money right now. I'm gonna buy up as much of these goods as I can. Instead, if the price goes up, it means I have to really want that thing in order to spend money on it. And so I think there's a huge percentage of the US population that doesn't understand, if you demand that prices stay the same and yet supply doesn't go up and demand goes up, then you have shortages. And so I don't know how we handle this, but if you have this discontinuity, like you're talking about, there's a ton of demand, there's supply lacking, or I mean, we've kept our, our grocery stores pretty full, but I, but right,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:24:16] But

Vance Crowe [00:24:17] Not as full as I would want right now. So we've gotta let prices float, I think, and I'm worried that there are people that don't understand economics enough to not want prices to float,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:24:27] Right? Well, and that just comes back to, again, we don't know how good we have it. We've been allowed not to know about the economics, even from a producer standpoint, right? I've just been able to decide, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do and I can just buy some of this and then I'll just put it to market. And you know, that's, it's worked, you know, we've allowed a lot of mediocrity if you ask me. And that has now come around as gonna bite us in the butt. And so it's forcing people to start to figure out all the dollars and cents, thank God. So

Vance Crowe [00:24:57] In a totally different realm of your life, you are in the rodeo queen world, the one where it teaches, well, you tell me, but one, what is the rodeo queen world and what's going on now that people can't get together when that is a hyper social activity?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:25:14] Totally. I think people are having massive withdrawals from their, their sports, you know, just like baseball or football. The rodeo athletes feel the same way. And so I work a lot with like the Miss Rodeo America organization and you know, if you know anything about that, each of the states have their own queen, right? So there's a Miss Rodeo, Texas and Miss Rodeo, California, miss Rodeo, Idaho, and these girls are selected and they have one year to go and promote rodeo, and that's their job, right? They're the spokesperson, they're the influencer, if you will, that goes to schools and hospitals and radio interviews, and they're out there riding for the brand so that they can fill the seats of that arena, right? And so we can put on a fabulous show. And so right now, these girls that have worked their whole lives to get to that pinnacle point where they could, you know, be their state queen and then ultimately Miss Rodeo America, who has won the biggest contest of all, they're sitting going, Hey, wait, like this is what I've been waiting for my whole life. And so I think that it's been neat. It can, going back to the creativity factor and what are people doing to, can go to the future? I'm seeing a lot of engagement online. And so there's story hours. A lot of girls are reading, you know, ag themed books to kids or horse themed books and saying, let's have a conversation. There's some that are now podcasting when that never was, you know, a part of their world and they're really focused on their sponsors, right? Everybody is worried about, again, the economic piece. And so they're using this platform and the time to really share the love of the people who give them trucks to drive and horse trailers and gas to put in their vehicles and outfits to wear, you know, hats, boots, the whole thing.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:26:56] And so think that they're sad just like all the seniors in high school. Like they're missing their, their, all those final things that crowning achievement. But they also know that they've gotta find ways to raise money. You know, we've got stock contractors that aren't bucking stock, right? We've got,

Vance Crowe [00:27:12] What is that? A stock contractor? What do you mean?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:27:14] So a stock contractor is who brings the Bronx and the Bulls and all of the calves and steers that, so the livestock to the rodeo. And so like, that's where we got our horses from the old rodeo company. And so this is their livelihood, that's all they do is travel every week practically to go and bring these horses so the cowboys can compete and you know, have this opportunity. And so what are they doing? Like they're not bringing any money in, right? Those cowboys that, that was their job being on the road all the time. They're not rodeoing. I, you know, one thing that I saw that was really cool, they, the Ranch House designs is an organization that serves cattle people. They're starting to have online cattle shows. And that just, I, it blew my mind. I thought, how creative is that? And so I've been seeing in the rodeo world that people are trying to figure out, well, how can we have some kind of a contest where there's money, you know, to be won, but it's virtual? And that's hard because all arenas are different. The stock is different. And so to create a level playing field is very hard, but they're trying to figure it out.

Vance Crowe [00:28:20] And the reason a rodeo is so intensely interesting is because you are watching somebody ride the wave of chaos, right? You're watching them on the edge to say, are they gonna get bucked off? Are they gonna make it around those barrels fast enough? Are they gonna be able to loop the rope around the, the hooves of that calf and, and tie 'em real fast because you don't know what's gonna happen. It's the chaos, the unknown that makes those exciting. And so being in person with other people all hanging on that moment is what makes that a valuable experience. And so to be able to convert that, I bet there's gonna be a lot of people that fail to convert it when they try and do it online. But somebody will succeed, somebody will

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:29:03] Figure it out. Somebody's gonna, that's right. Well, I'm even loving, I think the Colorado Rockies are super amazing in the way that they market and just last weekend they strung together. It was the opening, opening day, you know, it was supposed to be opening day. And so they went and they took all of the best opening day innings and strung them together in a game like a, a virtual game. And so you saw all these different eras and players and things that cave. And so I, I think in the, you know, when I can't have it, we're finding still neat ways to go back and pay homage to the old greats and saw Magic Johnson talking yesterday and he was, you know, just encouraging people to stay home again. But he was like, go and pull some of those NBA classics out and, you know, let's go back and, you know, just notice those killer dudes from way back in the day. And so, well

Vance Crowe [00:29:57] It's interesting. So this, this guy Jay Delsing, who I've had on my podcast, he's a PGA golfer. He and I have become really good friends after the podcast, we even went and did like those sensory deprivation tanks. We went on a field trip to go do some of those. Like I, I, I love this guy, but I was talking with him, what do you do if you're a former professional athlete and you're at your house? He's like, oh, I've started doing deals where I don't remember what it was, it was like something obscenely cheap. I don't want to quote it. It was less than a hundred dollars. I was surprised. And he was like, I'll sit online and watch you do your golf swing and I'll help you like work on it. So you could be,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:30:33] Inro was doing that.

Vance Crowe [00:30:35] Was he really?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:30:36] Yeah, totally.

Vance Crowe [00:30:37] It's amazing, right? So it's like, call up this professional golfer you've seen for years. They, they are sitting at home just like you are and they'll help you on your golf swing. Now there are other people, they don't have the time or attention to do that, but if you do, what a great way for a professional athlete to keep their time busy and to make somebody else's time valuable.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:30:55] Yes. But Vance, I have a question. Did you see now that there are NASCAR drivers that are getting paid to play their NASCAR video game for people to watch? And so, you know, I've got this bush driver here and this guy over here, and so people are watching these guys that they normally see drive real cars. And so they're doing this, but then I don't even remember the guy who it was, but he got mad. He got like so mad 'cause he wasn't winning and he signed off and he was like, screw this, I'm done. And so he stopped the game, but then one of his biggest sponsors saw that, came back and said, you're done. We are not gonna sponsor you anymore. And I was like, no way. This isn't even real life. This was a virtual game. And they're like, yeah, it's about character though, and I don't want anybody representing my brand that's gonna act like that. And that

Vance Crowe [00:31:51] Blew

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:31:51] My mind. I was like, dude,

Vance Crowe [00:31:54] Wow. I mean, and, and here we are, right? This is why the new digital medium of having conversations like this is, is so, so much more real than what a lot of people are giving it credit for. I think that in the traditionalist way, this is not the real world. This is something that happens on digital. I can't feel it, I can't touch it. But for the people that know how to get to these places, to get to new podcasts, to find the Twitter conversations that are valuable, it's like we've entered an entirely new world and you, everything looks black. It's the fog of war or the dark of night. And so you have to go out and find these communities. Yesterday on the podcast I had this woman named Kate Crosby on, and she mentioned a topic that she and I talk about a lot called the Whale Pod. And you and I have talked about this and the, the interesting thing about a whale pod is that the pod of whales don't actually all have to be together in the same location. They can use their ability to communicate thousands, hundreds of miles in the ocean through their sounds and communicate about what's going on in different places. And sometimes they all come together, but a lot of times they're really far apart. My whale pod includes you out in Colorado, Lyle Benjamin up in Montana, all these people that I'm reaching through the podcast. It's an interesting thing to figure out, what are you actually seeing on the ground right now? And the fact that people are actually socially distant yet are incredibly close in this digital world, is that whale pod concept.

Vance Crowe [00:33:28] Who's in your whale pod right now?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:33:31] Ooh, you know, I've talked more to my parents in the past couple of weeks. I, me too haven in months

Vance Crowe [00:33:37] With me. Me too. Yeah,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:33:38] It's interesting. It, you know, it's my PI had a conversation with my old four H leader's daughter this week, and we again hadn't talked in a long time. And so those old, old friends, I find that I'm finding more connection with them, which is just interesting to me. But it's no different. My pod hasn't changed because of coronavirus. Honestly, it's still my farmers and ranchers that I love. It's my music people that I always talk with. Yeah. So it hasn't changed.

Vance Crowe [00:34:11] And have you started doing like date nights or anything where you get together with other family members? We, we've been doing it where Annie and I will have either her business partner and her husband over, or a few neighbors over, but it's just our video and us in a comfortable place. But we set it up so that the set looks like you're coming over to our house and we're coming over to yours. And it's not perfect, but it's still pretty fun.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:34:34] Yeah, we haven't done a ton of that. And I felt a little bit guilt that goes with that because I see online everybody posting snapshots of their zooms and things and I'm like, should I wanna be doing that? But I I, we just haven't, I've been really focusing that energy more for the kids so that they can have that. Like on Friday mornings my husband's coworkers have been rotating and reading books to the kids and so they have all of the kids from, you know, the, the group that works together getting online and think, oh,

Vance Crowe [00:35:02] That's a brilliant idea, kind

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:35:03] Of cool. It's been super, super fun. So I do it one on Fridays, it's five o'clock somewhere with my friend from the barn. And so yeah, a little bit. But I, I've been hearing on the flip side too, that a lot of people are having fatigue. They're like, wow, I didn't engage that much with people before and now like I feel like I'm doing it all the time and I'm kind of over it. Like this is too much for my, my senses I'm already dealing with a lot. And so to add that extra just seemed like too much. And so, I don't know, I talk a lot through, again, throughout the days I'm coaching and engaging with people, you know, online. And so I haven't felt the need to wanna do it as much.

Vance Crowe [00:35:40] I think the biggest quality that helps it so I can do as much video conferencing as I do is really caring about sound. I think most people don't realize that when you are on a conference call, if your is the, if your room is the one that you aren't wearing headphones so there's echo or you aren't close enough to a good microphone so that you kind of sound garbled or you're running too many programs on your computer so it skips and stops it. That's the stuff that takes people from saying, we are having a continuous conversation and this is comfortable and I like it and I can forget the fact that we're not physically there to, to something different where it's annoying and obnoxious. And so I, through doing the podcast for several, you know, for a year now, but also being in radio, I really care about sound. And if you wanna be the type of person that other people want to talk to on video, you gotta learn how to control your sound. It's worth looking up.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:36:36] I agree that quality of the interaction definitely matters. And I think that there's probably a subset of people like me that I'm an only child, I really enjoy my alone time and now I'm not getting as much as I really feel like I need or want. And so again, to add extra stuff, I'm just like, no. Like, I'd rather have that hour to go and like take a bath with no interruptions from anybody.

Vance Crowe [00:37:01] Well, and see this I think is for me an extrovert's dream. I'm like, I can call anyone I want anywhere in the world and they're just sitting at home and they're gonna answer my call. This is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:37:14] Right. You know? And from a business perspective, how cool is that? Is that I can reach people now that maybe I wouldn't have had access to in the past. That is huge. I've been hearing a ton of stories like that. Like I've been trying to get on this person's agenda for a long, long time and just now they've, they've been home so I've been able to to touch them. But on the flip side too, I hear that people feel like they've got all this extra time and there's, the other day I saw a post on Instagram and it was really interesting 'cause a lady was like, I cannot bear to look at my friend's Instagram feeds anymore that don't have kids because it's making me feel super resentful. And so she was just saying, you know, this is hard for me to have a kid, you know, on my hip all the time and to juggle the 82 meals I'm making a day. And so she was just basically sharing her frustration with, I can't look like that because it just makes me kind of sad about my own situation. And as a mom, I was like, yes, I feel that same way sometimes. I'm like, how does everybody have all this extra time because I'm over here dying, you know, with the, all the extra stuff I'm having to do. And so then I started looking at the comments and holy crap, people were just brutal saying, you're an asshole. You shouldn't have had kids. If that's the way that you feel and now you understand how I feel about all of your kids' birthdays and weddings and all the things I have to buy your family because you decided to have kids. And and I was like, oh wow, that is wild.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:38:48] You know, we're, we're so quick to freaking judge somebody else's situation because it's not like ours. And so anyway, like more time, less time, it doesn't matter, we're all dealing with shit. Somebody said, my mom always used to say, you know, your broken toe, is it any different than my broken finger? They both hurt. Yeah. But man, the judgment, you know, that is just crazy. Well, well

Vance Crowe [00:39:08] I think that there's a big part of this that we don't know what is normal. We don't know what is succeeding anymore. Like the rules on what is progress are all very different now. And so I think when we start hearing people complain about others, oftentimes it's, I'm afraid that my way of doing it isn't good enough. So the way that I'm gonna make sure that I feel good about where I'm at is by saying how terrible your way is and how my way is clearly the right one when it, it is exactly that thing that you're describing of, of everybody's got their own cross to bear, right? Like, my wife and I have a ton of extra time, but I also spend a lot of time wondering if my wife's, you know, pregnancy is gonna go okay. And if we're gonna get all the way to the other side. And, and so I, I mean like you could, somebody could try and trade places with me. I'm not saying I have it any better or any worse, but we've all got pressure here and it's better to come to the other person and say, I'm really interested in understanding why is having kids a challenge? What do you wish you knew? What were the things you figured out earlier that can help me as I'm going forward?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:40:17] Right? And that what you just described is empathy, right? And that's truly what we have got to focus the most around, focus the most around, you know, in leadership as we are seeing organizations make hard decisions in our own homes when we're, you know, seeing social media feeds that we don't agree with or whatever, if we could try to understand right, that seek first to understand, I wanna move and say, man, what is the emotion that they're feeling and why are they feeling that? And if I can't name those two things, screw you. Like, like you gotta focus on yourself, right? You gotta be able to do that. And if you can't, then you're not leading. You're just being, again, mediocre. You're just going for the low hanging fruit and that's a bat on you.

Vance Crowe [00:41:00] So the guy that I had on the podcast just, it'll be released this morning, he and I met because he showed up on my Twitter feed saying, you shouldn't interview that person over there. That's a dangerous person. And so we had a back and forth and then we flipped over to DM where I was like, Hey man, like everything that you're doing seems like you're coming from a good place, but when I read the things that you're writing to me, I feel like you're trying to harm me. What's going on here? And he was like, no, I was just trying to get your attention. I'm trying to tell you this other way of thinking about it. And I was like, man, am I glad I did not go and smack this guy? I just went and asked him. We ended up having a good conversation so good that I was like, Hey, you should come on the podcast because you see the world so differently than I do that, like, you might know something, I don't know. And and it's made this experience of the podcast much richer, but that's what could change a whole lot of Facebook interactions is to look at somebody that's writing somebody and thinking you're attacking me. And instead saying, Hey, there's something I don't understand here and it seems like you're trying to get my attention. What can I understand?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:42:07] Right? And that's how I feel about the, the cattle markets and the way that people feel, right? Because you've got that, obviously there's a lot of passion, right? And,

Vance Crowe [00:42:15] And a lot of money. And a lot of money,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:42:17] Right? A lot of the stuff. And so it's like, well, how can I under at least understand like, why do you think that this is the issue? Right? If we could just be curious, and that's why I love horses, right? And I, I talk a lot about this and, and a lot of the speeches that I do is the horses have these big giant ears on top of their head and they're always like moving and like detecting what in the world is happening, right? Is there a cougar that's gonna come and eat me or am I cool and I can just continue to munch my grass? And life is good, right? But they're always moving in curiosity, right? Saying, Hmm, am I safe or am I not safe? Am I safe or am I not safe? And if we could just take that same kind of, hmm, I'm sensing I'm, you know, got my peripheral vision out, I'm trying to see all the things, life would be cool. So could we lead like horses feel a little more curious versus you're a dick.

Vance Crowe [00:43:02] So what, just to, just to kind of finish off, one of the questions that I ask everybody that I can think of is, what does the world look like in two weeks from today, it's April 10th, 2020, during the coronavirus, two weeks from today. What does the world look like?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:43:23] I think we're gonna have people that are gonna start moving out and not staying at home in two weeks because we're starting to see, you know, some benefit for what we've been doing. And so that scares me in two weeks. I think, you know, people are gonna start to doing things that are gonna put us at a, a greater risk. So that's my first thought. I think that in two weeks we're gonna see people outside more because the weather's gonna warm up even more, right? And so that desire to just get out and so that'll put us more at risk outside of that. I think we're gonna continue to see more people innovate and, you know, do creative delivery outside of Yeah, I'm, I'm not sure

Vance Crowe [00:44:08] What about hunger and people being fed that are at the lower ends of the, of the spectrum. Are you, are you thinking that in two weeks, will food banks be taking care of that or do you think, we'll, we'll go beyond that? What do you think's gonna happen?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:44:24] I think we're still gonna be having challenges with people and babies being hungry and schools, you know, the, that learning I'm, one of my biggest worries is like, sometimes learning isn't really a positive thing when there's all of this, you know, stress in the house. And even as I'm trying to work and my kids are like, Hey, I need help. I'm like, no, like, just figure it out, right? I'm trying, I'm in the middle of something. And so I think that from a mental perspective, people are gonna be at a, you know, if the emotions are gonna be even raw. And so I'm, I'm worried about the teachers and the, you know, pressure that they're getting. I've been really critical of our teachers quite honestly, because I know that they're doing the best that they're trying to do, but they're not instructing a whole lot, at least from my perspective. They're, you know, go and watch this video or go and do this app and I wanna see some true delivery. And so I'm hoping in two weeks we see that because they're noticing, you know, that this isn't the, the ideal kind of situation. Just to,

Vance Crowe [00:45:24] You know, one thing that

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:45:25] Using teachers don't,

Vance Crowe [00:45:27] I think one of the things that teachers don't realize is traditionalists believe that we're gonna go straight back to the regular schools, but the futurists can say, well, if you're a really good online teacher, imagine if you could charge 25 cents per student, but you teach 10,000 students in a single day because you're really good at getting kids organized and getting them their paperwork. And you, I mean, you could reconstruct the education system right now in a way that you couldn't do before and allow for entrepreneurs where a teacher that is really good on top of it figures out how to use electronics and knows how to facilitate large scale education. You could upend the education system in the United States and who knows what that does to the future of the country, right? Because our education system is what is what tells everybody what's the constitution, who are the leaders, how does the system work? And if you then decentralize that and have it so you can deliver it online, the world starts changing in big ways. So whatever teachers are out there coming up with inventive ways to capture children's attention, deliver education, track it and make their parents happy with it, they will get all of the students,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:46:44] You know, I was thinking about that last night is, you know, how many, how many teachers can we really have, right? Like the ability, like not everybody's gonna get to be a teacher that wants to be a teacher because only those that did exactly what you said are gonna be able to, to be that. If you just wanna go and, you know, sit in the classroom and you know, read out of the curriculum book that's been prescribed to you, like, I don't, like, there's no room for that in the, the future, right? I saw a TikTok that made me laugh because there was a girl and she was like, wait, I'm supposed to have a place in my house that I've set up like a virtual classroom. Yeah, that's not what I signed up for. I'm not gonna do that. You're just going to get me sitting here behind the computer. And I just looked at her, I'm like, well baby, survival of the fittest, you better kiss your job goodbye. Because if you're not willing to be that inventive, then screw you. You don't get to be a teacher, right? I want those teachers who are out there figuring out, like the guys that's in his bathroom, in his shower with the dry erase marker teaching his science like that is cool using what you have. But I'm still trying to instruct and engage and not making excuses. But I also think, you know, I, I was having a conversation with my, my teacher about I want you to be online every day. I said, why can't we do Google Hangouts every day, not just a couple of days a week, what they're currently doing? And she says, well, because there are rules that I can't because there you have to have x percent of your kids that have internet, that have devices that can connect. And until that ratio happens, I am not allowed to go live every day.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:48:17] And I was like, that is bullshit.

Vance Crowe [00:48:19] And herein lies what, what, what people in the, in the post coronavirus world just won't put up with it. The people that stay in the traditionalist way will say, well, it's the only thing that's my teacher. This is how it works, and dah, dah, dah, the first people to move. Now you're gonna have a higher rate of mistakes. There's gonna be teachers that start and they seem like they're gonna be great and they just can't hold it together. But if you find a teacher that can do this, I mean, wouldn't you be willing to pay that person directly to make sure your kids were entertained and educated and their time was occupied? And would you care if there were 10,000 kids in that student as in, in that class, as long as your kid was getting engaged with and had their own peer group?

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:49:02] Oh baby, I would pay whatever.

Vance Crowe [00:49:05] And this is every single situation, every work environment, there are things that you can't change fundamentally. You gotta have people throw hammers, you gotta have people drill wells. You gotta have people come think HVAC systems. So a whole bunch of that's gonna stay traditional, but a whole lot of it isn't. And whoever comes up with the most inventive things, the earliest wins, all

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:49:27] It's anti average, right? Those who are willing to rise above will win. I was reading something the other day that only, I don't know what the, the number was. Like one in three people are only taking a shower like every other day today in this corona world and that another large percentage aren't getting dressed. And that just broke my heart. I'm like, well, who the hell are those losers? And I'm like, as I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm supposed to be about love and leadership and here I am judging them, but I'm like, that is not okay. Like that is not okay. Like we can't just take this as a pass and not care about who we are as individuals and our hygiene and like what in the hell, right? Things need to change. So here let's bringing it, this is a golden opportunity and

Vance Crowe [00:50:16] Like, and this is a harsh reality. They're not talking about it on the news that like, it's just not something people can say in general polite society, but there is a better than, a better than zero chance that coronavirus is a baptism that everyone has to go through except for the people that can completely isolate for 18 more months until you get a vaccine. So there's a reasonable chance that you have to get coronavirus, which means if you're socially isolating right now, the absolute best thing you could do is to eat as well as you can to sleep as well as you can and to get fit to run, to jump, to lift, to have everything in your system working in top quality. And frankly, if in we come, if when we come out of coronavirus you have put on 1520 pounds, the health system should look at you and say like, Ugh. You know, like, I don't know how you pay more. You bank in this priority versus other people. In the same way that we're saying, Hey, people that go to churches are endangering us. People that fall out of getting in shape or at least doing what they can. Not everybody can, but doing what you can, it only one hurts you. And then it puts a strain on the system. People shouldn't be walking outta here 15 pounds heavier, they should be walking outta quarantine. 15 pounds lighter,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:51:34] Right? Like we've only been in this, what, four weeks? I saw a guy the other day, he was like, I thought I would put on my work attire just to see how it fits. And dude couldn't even button the bottom button in his shirt. And I was like, what in the world?

Vance Crowe [00:51:47] Traditionalists. These are the tradition. The the Corona traditionalists. They believe that the world was coming back the same.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:51:54] It's scary. It's so scary. And so, yeah, don't do that. Y'all listening, go to the Zoom.

Vance Crowe [00:52:03] This has been fantastic. What if people wanted to connect with you on social media or learn more about your, about interacting with you? I mean, I can personally attest you've definitely changed my life and my career and so I think talking with you is infinitely valuable. So if people wanted to get ahold of you, how would they do it? Sarah,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:52:21] Sarah j bonk camp.com. Sarah Bon sj boning camp on Instagram. I'm on

Vance Crowe [00:52:27] Also Social,

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:52:27] Social network.

Vance Crowe [00:52:28] It's not, it's not intuitive.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:52:30] Gotta love that. German name. B-O-H-N-E-N-K-A-M-P-E.

Vance Crowe [00:52:34] Alright, I will throw that up in the show notes. Sarah, thank you so much for, for joining and I'm sure we'll have you back on. Be safe with your family and good luck out there.

Sarah Bohnenkamp [00:52:45] Thanks for having me.