Small Animal Veterinarian Brittany Kennedy on pet diets, vaccines, end of life | Vance Crowe Podcast

Brittany Kennedy [00:00:00] I'm Rosea Mosby. We are vegetable growers in the middle of an urban, rural interface home to over 4 million people near Seattle. And you are listening to the Vance Crow podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:10] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. This week's interview is with Dr. Brittany Kennedy, a small animal veterinarian from the St. Louis area. Dr. Kennedy came as a friend of a friend. I had actually never met her until she showed up at the front door of the podcast studios, and so I had no idea where this conversation was gonna go. I had checked out her Instagram, which is filled with wonderful pictures of her with dogs and cats and goats and traveling all over the world. But I had no idea what her personality was gonna be like and really how candid she would be. And as a person that's doing interviews, I, I am always very, very reluctant to interview somebody that I've never even met or heard their voice. And it's because sometimes people have an expertise, but their ability to get it out in a relatable way is limited and it makes the conversation more difficult than it necessarily has to be. But that was not the case with Brittany Kennedy. She came in gregarious and excited and happy, and yet was completely willing to talk about really controversial subjects in her area. We ended up talking about which kind of pet foods does she trust? How are human beings dealing with things like immunizing their pets when there's a fear of vaccines growing and spreading in the world? And we talked about the future of veterinarian medicine and what goes on in the mind of a person that is asked to care constantly for other people's animals. And it really marks up their heart, kind of hurts them. And she calls it compassion fatigue and what weight that is putting on people that are in the profession.

Vance Crowe [00:01:46] The interview was fun and exciting and very fast moving, but you're gonna get in about an hour and 15 minutes and you're gonna notice that we wrap it up, we end the interview, but there's still a lot of time left. And what happened was we get to the end and Dr. Kennedy said that she would be willing to try out this new VR set that I'm borrowing from my buddy Travis Liebig, president of St. Louis Bank. And, and she tried it out and, and had a great experience. I even got a little bit of film of her kind of ambling around in this new virtual reality world. But then when we got done, I realized because I pulled up Twitter that before she had showed up, I had asked Twitter, Hey, do you have any questions that I should ask a small animal vet? So while she was exploring in vr, I opened up Twitter and realized, whoa, there was an explosion of questions. People from all over the United States vegans to cattle ranchers and everything in between were asking questions of this small animal vet. So we actually sat back down, we talked about her experience with virtual reality, and then we went through some of the questions. I'd never done anything like this before, but it was such an entertaining and engaging experience that I'm really glad to share it here. So I'm gonna head into the interview. If you miss last night's book club where we were reviewing all quiet on the Western front, don't worry about it. I'll probably post that interview here as soon as I can get the data together. But if you wanna join February's book club this month, we're going to be reading a book called The True Believer by Eric Hoffer.

Vance Crowe [00:03:19] Now, the True Believer is a book about how mass movements get started, who joins them, and what does it take to make that motion of joining a group move into the world of mass movement. It is a fascinating read. I had read it probably 15 years ago, always held it in my head as one of my favorite books, if not my all time favorite book. But it never gone back to revisit it and now revisiting it 15 years later, it speaks to me in a way that it had not spoken before. I see what they're saying about how these movements get started in a way that I didn't before. And that may be because of my own personal experience. But I also think that you are gonna see this too, because I think we've seen mass movements growing much more rapidly and in a much bigger way than we had maybe in, in earlier in our lives. So I hope you check out that book. It is the True Believer by Eric Hoffer. Not to be confused with the Nicholas Sparks book. We're gonna head into this interview with Dr. Brittany Kennedy. I really hope you enjoy it. And if you're interested in following her on Instagram, she has a fantastic Instagram. It's just Dr. Brittany Kennedy. One final note, if you've never watched the YouTube channel of of the podcast, this may be the one that you wanna flip over and try it. I took some video of Brittany actually doing the VR and watching somebody interact when they've got the head screen on and they're kind of moving their arms around. It's really interesting and it will probably signal to you that this is a big deal. If you've never seen anybody inside of a VR headset, you really should because you'll see that they are completely taken over by this new world that they're living in inside of that headset.

Vance Crowe [00:04:57] So if you've never checked out the podcast on YouTube, check it out. It's just Vance Crow and I hope to see you there. So thanks for joining. I'm so glad you're here. And let's head on over to the interview. Brittany Kennedy, welcome to the podcast.

Brittany Kennedy [00:05:22] Thank you for having me.

Vance Crowe [00:05:24] So this is one of the first for me. I did not know you at all. And actually the person that referred to me to you, I barely knew either, but I actually met your sister at a tech event here in St. Louis. It was St. Louis Bank was sponsoring this kind of launch code event, which is this group that teaches people how to code. And your sister was there 'cause she's highly into the world of tech here in St. Louis. She was really, really interesting, very sharp. And I was like, instantly you should be on the podcast.

Brittany Kennedy [00:05:53] And

Vance Crowe [00:05:53] Then she got really bashful and she said, no, that's not really my thing. But then all of a sudden she lit up and she said, you know who you should talk to instead is my sister. And that is you? Yeah. A small animal vet here in St. Louis. So welcome to the podcast. You're the first veterinarian I've ever had on. Thank

Brittany Kennedy [00:06:12] You for having me Vance. It's an honor.

Vance Crowe [00:06:14] So what, what does a small animal vet do all day?

Brittany Kennedy [00:06:18] Basically, I diagnose, treat, and care for animals. A lot of people think that I play with puppies all day, which I do love. It's a definitely part a perk of the job. But basically the animal doctor, that's what I am.

Vance Crowe [00:06:34] And did you know from a very young age, I want to go be a veterinarian.

Brittany Kennedy [00:06:38] I did. Yeah. So it was kind of like my dream my entire life. And I, in high school, I actually started shadowing veterinarians and just trying to figure out if this was really what I wanted to do with my life. And I would come home with all these stories from my family. You know, my sister would sometimes be a little grossed out by some of these stories, but I absolutely loved it. And then when applying to colleges or being a veterinarian was kind of at the forefront of my mind. And a lot of people told me, you know, you might wanna not consider doing this because you work really hard. You know, you, the debt income ratio is something to consider. And just going into a kinda eyes wide open from a

Vance Crowe [00:07:27] Business perspective, they were, they were saying, Hey, this might not financially be a good decision for you. Correct. You could use your intellect and do do better for yourself.

Brittany Kennedy [00:07:35] Yes. So I gave up that dream for about four years and I actually went to business school and graduated from the University of Missouri with a business marketing degree. And about two years into the program I kind of realized like, no, like I really need to be a veterinarian. This is what I'm being called to do with my life. And so I met with my advisor of the business school who helped formulate a plan to graduate on time with my business marketing degree and also applied to veterinary school. So that's what I did. I graduated with the marketing degree and, and applied to bus to veterinary school, which was quite a involved process.

Vance Crowe [00:08:19] Yeah,

Brittany Kennedy [00:08:19] I,

Vance Crowe [00:08:20] I know a lot of people in vet school and it's, I, I get a chance to travel around to a lot of the land grant universities

Brittany Kennedy [00:08:28] And

Vance Crowe [00:08:28] I've met a lot of students in land grants and they had to work insanely hard to get there. Yeah. As I'm thinking about this, you switched two years in and then still made it in in time.

Brittany Kennedy [00:08:38] Correct.

Vance Crowe [00:08:38] You probably gave up a lot of your like social life to be able to make that happen.

Brittany Kennedy [00:08:43] I mean, it was definitely a lot of work for sure. So the veterinary school likes to see lots of shadowing hours. So they like to see 400 hours of shadowing, large animal, 400 of equine or horses, and then 400 hours of small animal or dogs and cats. So it was, so

Vance Crowe [00:09:03] What do you, what do you think of that? I mean, like, if you're going in there with, I wanna be around puppies and kittens and all of a sudden you have to be managing pregnant like cows, that's a, that's a totally different world.

Brittany Kennedy [00:09:15] It was really, really fun for me and very helpful in helping me decide if this was really what I wanted to do because it's just absolutely fascinating animals, the difference of anatomy that, you know, a horse from a cow cow to a dog, and you learn all of that in veterinary school. So I, I was really thankful for that shadowing time. And I kinda just went for it, guns blazing. The application was probably 20 pages long with three or four essays and there's an interview process and it was definitely, you know, kind of reckless abandon going after that passion to, to do what I'm doing now.

Vance Crowe [00:09:54] And the people that had tried to dissuade you, were they shaking their head no the whole time? Like uhoh?

Brittany Kennedy [00:10:00] I think once they realized how much I loved it and how driven and just passionate I was about doing this with my life, I think that because it is so hard to get into veterinary school, a lot of people say that it's harder to get into veterinary school than medical school even. Yeah. It's

Vance Crowe [00:10:17] Occurred. Yeah.

Brittany Kennedy [00:10:18] And so I think they just didn't want my heart to be broken. And then, you know, maybe once they realize that now it's everything that those people said trying to dissuade me couldn't have been further from the truth just about, you know, working long hours and the income and all that. I mean, I truly, when I go to work now, I just absolutely love what I do. I love being able to help people and I just really feel like I have a sense of purpose with my career path. Whereas I think if I would have not gone after that, I, I would've always wondered, what if, you know, I would've

Vance Crowe [00:10:54] So, so describe for me when you're in college and you said you have this pull, right? I never had that pull, so I don't actually know the experience that you're talking about in that way. What did it feel like? What like,

Brittany Kennedy [00:11:06] I think it's kind of like when you think that you're gonna like maybe marry somebody when you know, you know, and that's kind of what it was like for me. It was always like I was in, you know, thinking, oh, this is what I wanna do. And then it just literally, like, I have a very vivid recollection of like, one night in particular I was praying and just, it was like, this is what you have to do with your life, which is, it's kind of surreal actually.

Vance Crowe [00:11:32] And was it something that you ended up like being okay with you wanted or you were you like, oh no, now I have, I, I have two years in and now I'm gonna have to go tell these people. Or like, I mean, you were so excited that you just blazed right through it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:11:44] Super excited was like the primary feeling. Definitely a little scared, but mostly excited.

Vance Crowe [00:11:51] And then, you know, you, you had a chance to shadow people so you had an idea of what it would be like to be a veterinarian, but I would imagine that many people would either hide the eyes of a kid in vet school about like, it's gotta take a toll on a person to be the one that another person is coming in and handing their pet to and there's no hope for it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:12:13] Yeah, I mean, there's definitely difficult days and you know, hard aspects of the job, but I didn't really feel like with shadowing that people were trying to hide that from me, really. I really did feel like I got a lot of really, really great hands-on experience and I am such a hands-on learner, so it was just awesome to kind of be a part of that. But I did shadow some other jobs too, so I feel like anybody in, you know, thinking of a career change or that is maybe in high school, not really sure what they wanna do with their life, I feel like shadowing is really great for anyone thinking it, it

Vance Crowe [00:12:52] Would show you what it was

Brittany Kennedy [00:12:53] Gonna be like,

Vance Crowe [00:12:53] Anything. Yeah,

Brittany Kennedy [00:12:54] That's right. Yeah, because I actually spent some time with a physical therapist one day and that wasn't for me. You know, spent time with a meteorologist one day and just trying to figure out like in high school what I wanted to do with my life. The veterinary thing was always there from like, probably the age of like four or five. But I mean, going through that journey, trying to figure it out, it's really not easy. And

Vance Crowe [00:13:15] You were thinking about something though that I think we're probably about the same age. You might be a little younger than me, but the, I think we're, at the time when I wasn't thinking about how much college would cost or how much money I would make out of there, that wasn't really what I was thinking about. But you were motivated by that, or at least it seems like you were aware of it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:13:35] Aware of it in the sense that unfortunately for veterinarians and in my profession, there is a pretty high debt to income ratio. So there, I think we have like the number one or number two suicide rate in, in any profession. That

Vance Crowe [00:13:56] Was one of the questions to me asking

Brittany Kennedy [00:13:58] Ask you about, which is really, I mean, it's absolutely heartbreaking and I, there's so much that goes into kind of the work life balance and just having that sense of purpose, but also having like a, a well-balanced life and not taking everything So personally when something like a case doesn't go the way that you expect it to go, or, you know, there, there is a lot of pressure for sure with, well, you're just going into work every day.

Vance Crowe [00:14:34] I mean, the thing that you're describing is kind of surfing on the edge of chaos because in order for you to be able to really help an animal or a person coming in with a hurt animal, you have to have some care and compassion for it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:14:46] Yeah. But

Vance Crowe [00:14:47] If you go just a little too far, you've fallen in the water and get swept away.

Brittany Kennedy [00:14:52] Absolutely. Compassion fatigue is a really big thing in the profession. And I, I mean, there's no simple answer for it at all.

Vance Crowe [00:15:00] What is, what, what is something you do when you become aware that your compassion is being altered?

Brittany Kennedy [00:15:08] I guess I just try to, I, I, maybe it's a bad thing, but I, I feel like I've gotten pretty good at like compartmentalizing. So leaving work at work, while that's really, really difficult to do, if there is a sad case, I mean, or just a rough day, you know, letting myself feel those emotions and have how I try to make it a brief, like little cry. I mean, if I have a really sad euthanasia that gets me choked up, like I do cry and letting that sink in, but also trying to focus on, okay, the next room is a, a puppy that I am, you know, and just really, I don't know, living the moment, but also having a life outside of work. I really enjoy spending time with family and friends. And

Vance Crowe [00:15:55] Your Instagram is killer. You look like you are a world traveler. Thank, thank you. I mean, when I, when I pulled that up, I was like, whoa, she's going to all kinds of cool places and not just like driving your car up there, you're like hiking up mountains and staring over vistas. It's

Brittany Kennedy [00:16:08] Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So my Instagram, Dr. Brittany Kennedy, I try to share lots of pet tips for owners and, and just my day-to-day life outside of work too. But there's, I I think there's a lot of misinformation for pet owners, especially with like grain-free diets and oh, there's so much with

Vance Crowe [00:16:28] Market. Oh, let's talk about market. Yeah. Oh you,

Brittany Kennedy [00:16:30] The, these companies, you know, really wanna sell something to people. And so having a voice coming from a, an expert, a veterinarian, like I, that is really why I made the Instagram account. Oh,

Vance Crowe [00:16:41] You have no idea. So I have traveled all over the US even into Canada and talking with a lot of animal producers, cattle producers, and we've been talking about the makeup of pet food because not only is grain, that's like companies like Purina are one of the largest grain purchasers in the world, but they also buy meat products. But there's been a movement inside of the pet industry to start having like vegan dog food,

Brittany Kennedy [00:17:10] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:17:10] And the cowboys are really upset about this, but I've had no way to ask somebody, alright, let's talk about dog nutrition. Should they be eating vegan diets and what's going on with the amount of grain in pet food?

Brittany Kennedy [00:17:23] So it's very interesting because the marketing of pet food definitely got way ahead of the science and the research behind it. So the FDA recently came out with a study about grain-free and basically what we call boutique diets, that they are causing something called dilated cardiomyopathy, which is a heart condition in dogs that are eating these grain-free diets. So it's very controversial. A lot of people that feed their pets these grain-free diets, they are tried and true. They're very, you know, they're convinced that this is healthy for their pet. And

Vance Crowe [00:18:04] What is a grain-free diet? It's not an all meat diet then, is it? What is it?

Brittany Kennedy [00:18:08] It's a, it's grained free, so they put different food products in, like there's some kangaroo diets and all these different,

Vance Crowe [00:18:17] Oh,

Brittany Kennedy [00:18:18] I didn't know about that. Yeah. So it kind of got ahead of the research. So really my recommendation when it comes to dog food is the tried and true companies that have been around forever, Purina, Royal Canaan and Hills, they have tons of research and studies that back up what their food is and the products that are in their food. So that is really, you know, I feed my dog Purina one sport and I have a golden and a husky and you know,

Vance Crowe [00:18:47] I feel so vindicated right now. You have no idea how vindicated I feel because my wife is very sensitive to whether our dog likes or doesn't like the food. And we are now, we move from Purina of which like, I believe great dog food, lots of research. Like I visited their offices all the way out to these boutique things because if it makes my wife a little bit happier to like try and seek out the dog food, but I then I'm not gonna fight her on it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:19:14] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:19:14] But it does seem crazy.

Brittany Kennedy [00:19:16] Well it's interesting because as a veterinarian, having that conversation with clients, because it is controversial, is very, you know, you kind of do, people

Vance Crowe [00:19:24] Get mad at you.

Brittany Kennedy [00:19:26] You kind of have to pick your battles, I feel like, with people. So I don't, if they don't seem receptive to my recommendation, all I can do as a veterinarian and as a professional, professional is to offer my best advice. So if people, you know, don't want to accept that, it kind of is what it is. I don't take

Vance Crowe [00:19:44] Personal

Brittany Kennedy [00:19:45] Responsibility first. You're not stopped

Vance Crowe [00:19:46] By their house and

Brittany Kennedy [00:19:47] Drop a dog. No. Yeah. So that's kinda how I feel about the whole food front.

Vance Crowe [00:19:53] And is the same vaccine fear that goes on with human beings, does that go on with dogs as

Brittany Kennedy [00:19:59] Well? Yes. Really it does. And that's another kind of controversial topic is over vaccination of pets. So the things that we vaccinate for are the most lethal diseases that we see in pets. They're common and they are heartbreaking when, when these things happen. So vaccinating, you know, I'm a big proponent of doing vaccines, you know, and it, it is very similar to the controversy in vaccinating children. But then you find these,

Vance Crowe [00:20:30] What are people worried about? What do they, what do they think is going to happen if they vaccinate their dog?

Brittany Kennedy [00:20:34] Honestly, I do not know. I think that they, I I don't know what their fears are with it, because there really isn't research out there to support kind of these notions. I, I guess it's a, a lot of personifying the animal and treating that pet like a human. And so, because there are concerns about over vaccination of children and people, maybe that's why they're concerned. It's just, I don't know.

Vance Crowe [00:21:05] So this is a bit of an aside, but in that vein, I, I, when the coronavirus started coming outta China, I started watching YouTubers that are Americans living in China, or Americans that used to live in China, just to give a sense for like, what do you think is going on behind the headlines?

Brittany Kennedy [00:21:21] And there

Vance Crowe [00:21:21] Was a guy that got on and he said, if you're really worried about coronavirus, you know, that's killed a few people in China. And it's, you know, there's a few people in the US that are infected with it. That's not actually the problem. The flu, the influenza virus has already killed 8,000 people here this year.

Brittany Kennedy [00:21:38] And

Vance Crowe [00:21:39] Because people haven't been vaccinating their kids against measles, that actually is on the rise here. So if you wanna do something about like global public health, go get your measles booster.

Brittany Kennedy [00:21:49] Absolutely.

Vance Crowe [00:21:50] I'm all for

Brittany Kennedy [00:21:51] It. And no one did it. I I,

Vance Crowe [00:21:52] I got up, I was like, you know what? He's right. I i, I don't, I've, I I'm good for getting the booster, let's go do it. Yes. But

Brittany Kennedy [00:21:58] It would

Vance Crowe [00:21:58] Never have crossed my mind

Brittany Kennedy [00:22:00] Yes.

Vance Crowe [00:22:00] Because like, we sh this should be gone by now, but people are not vaccinating.

Brittany Kennedy [00:22:05] Exactly. It's fascinating. It's

Vance Crowe [00:22:07] Fascinating. What what do they teach you about in vet school about being able to handle these kinds of situations where you're like, I have the science on my side, you're saying something that you don't know is actually going to hurt your pet, but I've gotta somehow pick my battles. But did the vet school give you psych classes?

Brittany Kennedy [00:22:25] No, I took some psychology classes in undergraduate school, but you know, in veterinary school we learn just basically the, the health, I mean, there's one business class I think, but most of it is about the health of pets. But it's really interesting in learning about the health of pets is that there is a notion called one health, where basically it's a collaboration of veterinarians, human doctors, physicists, and all these scientists coming together and collaborating because there are so many disease processes and illnesses that overlap from animals to people. And so there's a lot of research that can be done, clinical trials and things like that with pets and how that can help not only pets, but also people too with the advancement of medicine.

Vance Crowe [00:23:21] I was down at the University of Florida, their, their veterinarian school invited me in, which has both like large animal and pets. And they were saying that they were getting protests around doing experimental surgeries.

Brittany Kennedy [00:23:34] And

Vance Crowe [00:23:34] They were like, people were saying, you shouldn't operate on these dogs and these optometrists, they, they had figured out things that you could do with the dog's eye to be able to repair blindness. And they're like, if we don't experiment, then when your dog comes in and we'll be blind, we can't help it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:23:48] Exactly. I mean, it really does help everyone. It's, it, it's the advancement of medicine, you know, having kind of this crossover and, you know, do you want your beloved dog when the, when your veterinarian graduates? Do you want your beloved dog to be the first one to have, you know, the first spay that that doctor has performed. I don't know if that's it. Right.

Vance Crowe [00:24:13] You don't.

Brittany Kennedy [00:24:14] And, and there's the veterinary school collaborates with shelters and so they will do like their spas and neuter that kind of thing for the education of the student. But it's also good for the pet too, to be able to be adopted out after having, you know, that procedure done.

Vance Crowe [00:24:31] It's so important. And I think people overlook this to have our education systems be able to, to test their skills in the real world. Like we can't shelter people and we can't say there's no way to do experiments. Like one of the things that surgeons often do of human surgeons is do operations on pigs

Brittany Kennedy [00:24:51] So

Vance Crowe [00:24:51] That their first time that they're opening up a human, that they're using a scalpel isn't on a, on a human being, it's on a pig. People lose their minds over that.

Brittany Kennedy [00:25:00] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:25:00] But but the alternative is not good.

Brittany Kennedy [00:25:02] Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Vance Crowe [00:25:05] So some of this seems to me to be something you mentioned earlier, which is the anthropomorphization of pets and animals. Where do you think the line is drawn between humans and animals? Like what, what is your, how, how do you think about that?

Brittany Kennedy [00:25:22] I think that the human animal bond is profound. I mean, there are things about the human animal bond that we don't even necessarily understand yet as human beings, dogs can pick up things like the cancer, you know, I, my cousin was saying his dog could basically sense when his wife was pregnant. I mean, there's all these things that, you know, it's almost like dogs have this sixth sense about what's going on. And cats too. I'm also a huge cat person, but, well,

Vance Crowe [00:25:53] Cats are different, right? Different cats are different, like wild animals that have just been kind of, you know, co-living dogs, right? So one of the things that I say at a, at a talk that I give is that we've had agriculture farming

Brittany Kennedy [00:26:05] For

Vance Crowe [00:26:05] 10,000 years. And that's typically when they denote that, that's when civilization began. Because once you have, once I can grow enough food for me and you now you can specialize and do something else and we can trade.

Brittany Kennedy [00:26:16] So

Vance Crowe [00:26:16] 10,000 years was agriculture, it was 15,000 that we've had dogs domesticated. So they're actually deeper embedded into us than farming and vegetables are.

Brittany Kennedy [00:26:27] It's absolutely amazing. It's so mind blowing to think about. But I think, I mean, I think the, it, it's fascinating and I actually kind of, it's very encouraging part of like my profession that people are greatly involved with their pet's lives and care so much about them. I think like the dog clothes and, you know, just the, the advancement of medicine and the care that people are getting now, the way that dogs and cats are such a part of a family now. Whereas 10 years ago even, you know, they may maybe weren't necessarily like that. They were getting the table scraps that the family wasn't eating, you know, that kind of thing. And so I think it's awesome. What do you think

Vance Crowe [00:27:10] Is spurring on that, that change? Because it is rapid. I have a friend named Brian that does small animal pharmacy and he said we've had to really think about what our flea and tick medications are because now people are sleeping with the dog in the bed, right? So it's one thing to have like, you know, rufuss sleeping out by the barn, what kind of flea and tick medication, but now it maybe get rubbed all over your face, so it's gonna change the way you medicate this dog. Why, why is this change going on? Like, what's happened?

Brittany Kennedy [00:27:39] I think it has a lot to do with like millennials and how people nowadays are having children later in life. You know, maybe their profession is taking off and they're settling down later. That's

Vance Crowe [00:27:51] Exactly us.

Brittany Kennedy [00:27:52] That's my thing. And so, yeah. And so they really like, their pets are their children, they are fur children. And

Vance Crowe [00:27:59] You know, that's a term that really frightens a lot of people living out on farms that raise cattle and pigs because they fear that people having that anthropomorphization of their pets means that they start turning the lens and saying, we should treat livestock that way too, and we shouldn't then eat them.

Brittany Kennedy [00:28:17] Hmm.

Vance Crowe [00:28:18] Is this something you encounter? Do you meet a lot of people that think in this way?

Brittany Kennedy [00:28:22] No, I mean, for PETA people maybe, you know, but whenever like you're going through the interview process of becoming a veterinarian and things, I mean they're, they really do try to weed out people like that because it really kinda, I don't know, shuns and just, it's just not,

Vance Crowe [00:28:43] Well it's in it's intransigent, right? It won't, there's, it's inflexible and you're going to school because you're gonna learn, right?

Brittany Kennedy [00:28:48] And there's

Vance Crowe [00:28:48] Gonna be things about, hey, this is how we think about taking care of a sick animal. This is the amount of pain that we can expose them to, to allow them to get better. Or this is the trade off we can make. And if you have somebody in there that draws a line and says none of that stuff is acceptable, it's hard to work with them.

Brittany Kennedy [00:29:04] Correct. And that's why I think practicing medicine, when you think about the term practicing medicine, that really, what is what it is? It's a practice. There's not a whole lot of, I've never thought of black and white in life, but also in medicine. And so, you know, if there is something it, I always tell people, you know, your pet better than anyone. And so if somebody's coming to me, for instance, for a second opinion, I think that that is wonderful that there being such advocates for this family member that they care so much about to really seek out, you know, what, what could be a different thought process or you know, a different step maybe,

Vance Crowe [00:29:44] You know, that's very egoless, right? Like that's, that's like saying my feelings won't be harmed if you go look into somebody else's way of doing it. Like let's just get the pet better. That's

Brittany Kennedy [00:29:54] Absolutely, that's,

Vance Crowe [00:29:55] Have you always been that way? Are you, are you the type of person that can let things roll off you?

Brittany Kennedy [00:30:02] I guess? I dunno, I, I just guess I kind of approach medicine more as like an art form versus like a science. I mean it's definitely both, but also just kind of thinking outside the box because really there's not, there's not always a right answer. I don't know. And

Vance Crowe [00:30:18] So tell me about those, what are those situations that you get into that you're like, you know, there isn't a clear path here, but we need to take some path so this is the way we're going.

Brittany Kennedy [00:30:27] Well, especially with like dogs with more elderly or debilitating diseases or really diseases without like a whole lot of hope. Cancers and things like that. Things like clinical trials or like if you had an older dog who was really painful with arthritis, that kind of thing. And just really kind of affecting its quality of life, you know, maybe we have that dog on three different medications and it's still not, it's still acting really painful. You know, trying some more alternative type options. Things like animal chiropractic, animal acupuncture, underwater treadmill, physical therapy, things like that that are maybe not super conventional, but just kind of coming up with all the options. There's things like laser therapy, there's a cold laser that basically you can put over a source of pain and it decreases the inflammation, pain and swelling in that area. So just really pres presenting the client and the owner with all the options that they have so that it's their choice

Vance Crowe [00:31:34] Is, so this is really interesting to me because you have talked about, you know, I wanna know what the studies say on food, and then you're talking about when we get closer to the end of the dog, now we're willing to try more experimental things. Are these things backed up with research or are you saying, hey, we you've gotta try a path or the path is the dog is, is gone?

Brittany Kennedy [00:31:57] Kind of the latter More so, I mean, as far as research and stuff, there's not a ton of research out there for these kind of alternative approaches, but it is an option for people. And I guess I, my big thing is just letting the owner make that decision and having kind of all the, going into it eyes wide open, having all the options presented to them versus saying, okay, this is exactly what we need to do. This is the only option because that's really hardly ever the case.

Vance Crowe [00:32:28] You know, if I had been standing outside of this conversation without actually having to think about your perspective, I would've been like, well that's like selling snake oil, right? You're, you're, you're taking advantage of people that are really sad. But then I think about you actually are having to take care of people that are really sad and are trying to figure out is it in the best interest of the dog to do an experiment That may not be true. I'd never actually thought of it that way before. It's,

Brittany Kennedy [00:32:57] Yeah, I mean we definitely, as veterinarians, I feel like we are treating both the pet and also the owner because there is so much emotion that goes into it naturally, you know, taking care of a, a family member. And so if the option is, okay, we can try this, maybe not, you know, kind of alternative medicine or we can euthanize the pet, I mean, I think, and that it has to be the choice of the owner.

Vance Crowe [00:33:24] This is a tremendous weight of, I mean this, I I I understand where you're coming from because otherwise if you don't present those options, you're, you're dropping something on them.

Brittany Kennedy [00:33:35] Correct? Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:33:37] Wow. We, we had a greyhound, I married into it, right? My wife had a Greyhound when I met her and then I, I married into it and the dog ended up having a series of problems that pre-meeting my wife. I would've been like, I'd never let a dog go through that. And then all of a sudden you're like, no, there's this human bond that's going on there. Going to a vet clinic and seeing the same vet is way more valuable to me than if I have a cold. And I just want to know, do I need to get some strep stuff because this person, we have to communicate about my dog. And if they're just a random person, it doesn't feel the same for whatever reason.

Brittany Kennedy [00:34:13] Exactly. Yeah. I mean there's a level of trust that's definitely built there over time and being a veterinarian, I mean, at the very first encounter, usually within like the first five seconds, I mean this, the client has an impression of you and you want it to be a good impression, but also having those continued relationships, one of my favorite things about being a veterinarian is being able to follow the animal from puppy hood a lot of times to senior hood. I mean, imagine if we were going to our doctor and we were seeing our pediatrician from the day we were born to, you know, old age. Like that just doesn't happen in, in human medicine. But it, having that relationship with the owner and the pet and just, I feel like I have like over a hundred dogs and cats at this point because I really do see these pets like my family members too. And I love being able to help them and help people.

Vance Crowe [00:35:11] My wife the only, like, she had a really interesting question that I wouldn't have thought of.

Brittany Kennedy [00:35:15] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:35:16] She said, okay, what is up with the vets that sit down on the ground when your dog comes in and they let your dog lick you in the face? She's like, I don't even let my own dog lick me in the face. Why would a, why would a dog, you know, let a strange dog do it? Do they know something about dog licking that I don't know. And I was like, I don't know,

Brittany Kennedy [00:35:33] I'll ask. That's hilarious. So I do that. I, I mean on the ground for sure, maybe not necessarily licking the face, but I think that there's veterinarians as a whole just love animals and there's something so intimate about a pet licking, whether it be the owner or a vet or anybody in the face. I mean, that's like, it just, it's a moment, you know, they're giving you a big old kiss, a old slop kiss. So,

Vance Crowe [00:36:03] And, and what other, I mean there's very few other circumstances where you, a human being with a wild thing ha just has a, just licking you in the face because it's just saying, I want to be your friend. I want to be your friend.

Brittany Kennedy [00:36:13] Exactly. Yeah. So I think that a lot of times owners like that too. I mean there's in the, there's a whole science around the exam room. It's interesting that having like a table in between the owner and the co and the veterinarian, it kind of sets up that barrier of communication. And so really trying to be like on the same level as the person you're speaking to or, you know, being, making that eye contact and, and removing the, the barrier. So getting on the ground if the owner's on the ground too or you know, the dog, like just really approaching and being approachable I guess is,

Vance Crowe [00:36:52] I mean it sounds like you have a psychology PhD, I mean like this is, so do you, do you find that this is just a part of becoming a veterinarian is that you have to spend so much time with people that everybody gets better?

Brittany Kennedy [00:37:05] I think so, yeah. You kind of learn as you go and you try to pick up on body language and you try to figure out what people like. So for me, a question in the exam room has been, should I wear scrubs in a lab coat? Should I wear professional clothes in a lab coat or no lab coat? It's kind of interesting hearing different people's perspective and I don't know if there is a right answer to that, but in the veterinary profession right now, there's a, a movement called fear free. So basically having it be a super, super positive experience for the pet and not having that intimidating approach to where if the, the pet is, you know, crouching down or trying to hide. We're really trying to get away from that as a profession. So using things like tons and tons of treats because if the pet is getting, you know, cheese at home, we want them to have a high dollar reward so that they really feel like they belong. And, and I don't wanna be the place where pets just come to get their shots all the time, you know? Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:38:08] You want 'em to be wagging their tails when they come in, make sure they're

Brittany Kennedy [00:38:11] Happy. Right, exactly.

Vance Crowe [00:38:12] That's a good point.

Brittany Kennedy [00:38:13] So the lab coat is kind of interesting because some fear free, it's, they prefer like a blue lab coat and so now they're, because it's supposedly emotionally better for the pet to have a blue lab coat. So I try to get away from the white lab coat thing, but again, it's, it's just kind of interesting how that's gonna evolve through the years too.

Vance Crowe [00:38:35] Well it, I guarantee you right now there are cattle ranchers either riding in their truck or doing something in their barn that their eyes are rolling into the back of their their head,

Brittany Kennedy [00:38:45] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:38:45] Because they're saying like, what they're animals. And we get in there and we get like, I, Jared McDaniel is a good buddy of mine, cattle rancher out in Oklahoma, he's gotta take care of 500 ca cattle. Like he's grinding,

Brittany Kennedy [00:38:56] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:38:57] No time for should I wear the blue web going to the white lab going?

Brittany Kennedy [00:39:01] Exactly. I mean I think there's definitely a place for it and overall I think it's really great advancement for the profession and people like it too most of the time. But yeah, there's definitely a time and place for it.

Vance Crowe [00:39:13] I mean, I like thinking about the fact that if you go to a vet that they're thinking about that that's a good sign, right? It's a better sign than they're just doing what they've always done. What do you, what do you see as far as the type of illnesses that we now treat in animals that maybe weren't treated before,

Brittany Kennedy [00:39:31] Before compared to when?

Vance Crowe [00:39:34] Maybe, I don't know then since you began and how long have you been a vet?

Brittany Kennedy [00:39:38] I've been practicing four years now.

Vance Crowe [00:39:40] Oh wow. So your experience sounds to be so much bigger. That's, that's amazing. Oh,

Brittany Kennedy [00:39:45] Thank you. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:39:45] You sound like you know what you're talking about. I mean, thank you.

Brittany Kennedy [00:39:47] At

Vance Crowe [00:39:47] Least your ability to interact with the people. So maybe, I guess where like the, the thing I'm asking about is do you keep people dogs alive with cancer and, and like what level is that getting to and how much, how much is going on there? There

Brittany Kennedy [00:40:04] Is a lot going on there. So at least in St. Louis, so there's an oncologist out in Ville, it's a satellite clinic of Mizzou called Mizzou Cancer Center, and they have board certified oncologists. So in the veterinary profession, there's people that are general practitioners that we learn everything in veterinary school from cattle, horses, small animals, and then general practitioners are like me who go into the workforce. But then there's also every specialty that there is in human medicine, there's also for animals, oncologists, radiologists, internal medicine specialists, orthopedic surgeons. And so with regards to like cancer and things like that, if a client was wanting to pursue that option for chemotherapy, I would refer simply because I am not comfortable hand handling like the chemotherapy drugs I can, but it becomes, well it

Vance Crowe [00:41:02] Makes sense like bio, somebody that's doing it all the time is gonna be way better. And if they're focused on it all the time, their specialization's a real thing.

Brittany Kennedy [00:41:09] Right? Exactly. So I would refer them either to Mizzou for an oncology consult or, or the satellite clinic in Ville. But we do see that all the time. There was actually a, the Super Bowl is tomorrow and there was a commercial that an owner had paid for like $6 million for their dog to be on this Super

Vance Crowe [00:41:35] Bowl. I saw that. What was that? I didn't even see that. Yeah, so that's gonna happen. That will have happened on Sunday. So Correct. This podcast will run a after the Super Bowl.

Brittany Kennedy [00:41:43] Yes.

Vance Crowe [00:41:44] So what is going on with it?

Brittany Kennedy [00:41:46] They, I guess this dog had maybe a 1% chance of living and the veterinarian referred it to one of the veterinary schools who treated for cancer and the dog did great. The cancer shrunk and now, I mean it's on this Super Bowl commercial that I think it's wonderful that this owner, you know, paid $6 million for this commercial to air on the Super Bowl. Some people are saying, well, you know, he should have spent that money on like a shelter or just donated that money directly to the veterinary school. But if you think about his reach with the Super Bowl by donating this money, and if other people see this commercial and are inspired to donate even $1, I mean that is gonna have a huge impact, a way bigger impact on the

Vance Crowe [00:42:31] Veterinary school. I know we're talking about it right now, right? Like we are talking about it and there's gonna be oncology school like, so University of Florida has an oncology program there and they say the thing that holds us back is more money to try new equipment, right? Like that's what we need to be able to do it and we can advance and keep your pets alive longer. So if somebody decides they wanna spend their $6 million on that, then go to it. That's

Brittany Kennedy [00:42:54] Great. Yeah. And it's just great for veterinarians to have some positive publicity sometimes too, because I think some people think that veterinarians are just in it for the money and they don't necessarily care about pets and, and that's all that negativity kind of feeds into the, you

Vance Crowe [00:43:13] Think people think that

Brittany Kennedy [00:43:13] The suicide? I think some people do.

Vance Crowe [00:43:16] Wow.

Brittany Kennedy [00:43:18] I mean it's rare that I come across that I feel like in my own personal life, I definitely, I mean

Vance Crowe [00:43:23] Think wouldn't really struggle to think

Brittany Kennedy [00:43:24] That you think that. Yeah, but I think that some people do. Yeah. Maybe some people had bad experience going to a vet. And if that's the case, I mean, I think some people think that they're stuck with whatever vet they've been going to because that veterinary clinic has their records, whereas they can literally go anywhere they want. So if you don't like the veterinarian, you're going to go somewhere else.

Vance Crowe [00:43:47] I think I've been out of the world, I remember when our Greyhound got sick and then you're there and there's all this experience. But now that we have a healthy dog, you know, we, my wife does the regular checkups and then we're out of there. But whatever my vet wants me to pay to make sure it's got heartworm and doesn't get like ticks, I'm good. You know, tell me, tell me how much it costs.

Brittany Kennedy [00:44:08] Yeah. Every client should be like you. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:44:11] I mean like, so what do you think of the costs of, of getting vet work? Like how are people get upset about it? They think it's too expensive.

Brittany Kennedy [00:44:20] Some people do. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:44:22] I mean it's gotta be an interesting thing on how does Yvette set their prices, right? Because you, you are in a free market, there is a cost to services and in order to keep a dog alive, there's a cost to it, right?

Brittany Kennedy [00:44:35] Yeah. I mean, I just think about the cost of like human medicine and how expensive everything is. You know, you go to the emergency clinic for one thing and you're looking at hundreds, hundreds or thousands. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a lot. So I mean I think that the, the cost kind of is what it is. And I don't know,

Vance Crowe [00:44:57] Is there insurance for, for pets?

Brittany Kennedy [00:45:00] There is insurance. It's becoming more commonplace now than it used to be. There's some different insurance options for pets. So I always tell people to kind of read between the lines when they're looking at insurance companies because based on the breed, sometimes the insurance company will exclude the most common things that that pet is likely to get. Oh

Vance Crowe [00:45:21] No.

Brittany Kennedy [00:45:21] And so it definitely becomes a little bit of a, a game. But I'm all for pet insurance. Absolutely. Truepanion is usually a good one too. If people are looking for pet insurance.

Vance Crowe [00:45:34] I think that Bayer, which just recently bought Monsanto, I believe that they have some kind of pet insurance that you can buy as a function through your work.

Brittany Kennedy [00:45:42] I think a lot of companies are offering that now. I've heard that quite a bit, that people are being offered pet insurance through their company, which is awesome.

Vance Crowe [00:45:52] The thing that more businesses should do is offer dog daycare.

Brittany Kennedy [00:45:55] Yeah, absolutely.

Vance Crowe [00:45:57] Like, I mean like that is like giving everybody a 25 or $30 raise right there. Right,

Brittany Kennedy [00:46:02] Exactly.

Vance Crowe [00:46:03] So, so the rise of dog daycares, does this bring up the rise of doggy influenza and other kinds of problems or it's just the way you have

Brittany Kennedy [00:46:12] To go? I think a lot of the boarding facilities do take appropriate measures to ensure that the pets that are coming there are healthy. So overall, I don't think so. But dogs do travel quite a bit more now than they used to, especially like on planes and things like that. So I

Vance Crowe [00:46:29] Didn't even think about that.

Brittany Kennedy [00:46:30] Yeah. Yeah. So there is more of opportunity for disease spread and things, but for the most part, I mean by vaccinating you're helping prevent those kind of issues. And now with more people getting veterinary care even than they used to, all that kind of comes into play.

Vance Crowe [00:46:47] Wow. We've talked a lot about dogs, but one thing that I don't understand is why do people keep cats? It's, it's, it seems like I don't, I don't have anything against them. I just don't. I have no connection with a cat. I would never want one in my house.

Brittany Kennedy [00:47:02] I have two cats. I love, love, love cats. They are totally different from dogs and you kind of have to take them for what they are. So cats are not dogs. Dogs are not cats. My cats are super affectionate every night they snuggle, they pur, they are just like, they kinda act in a weird way like dogs when they're like begging for food sometimes. But no, I, cats are a great family pet to have because they're not, they don't have the upkeep necessarily that dogs have, especially for people that travel a lot or super busy lifestyle. I mean, cats are wonderful, wonderful companions. Yeah. You

Vance Crowe [00:47:44] Don't have to take them to cat daycare.

Brittany Kennedy [00:47:46] Exactly. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:47:47] Yeah, that's true.

Brittany Kennedy [00:47:48] They're super easy to care for overall. I mean they, they kind of take care of themselves, whereas dogs are quite a bit more needy I would say, as a whole.

Vance Crowe [00:47:56] I never thought about that. Did you have pets growing up?

Brittany Kennedy [00:48:00] Cats are so I did, yeah. I had every kind of pet growing up. I had chameleons and birds and rabbits and dogs and cats and turtles and pot valley pig and oh yeah, I had all kind,

Vance Crowe [00:48:11] You have a certain kind of parent that would allow all of this craziness in your, in your house. Did you live out in the country?

Brittany Kennedy [00:48:17] No,

Vance Crowe [00:48:18] No,

Brittany Kennedy [00:48:19] No. I lived in just a normal standard suburb neighborhood. And I guess my parents, they were just super encouraging for whatever it was that we wanted to do with our lives. So they were just always kinda, they didn't mind.

Vance Crowe [00:48:32] Wow.

Brittany Kennedy [00:48:33] I know it took quite a bit of convincing. One of the cats, I remember my grandma would take us for a birthday outing to get whatever gift we wanted. And so one of these outings, you know, my grandma, what do you want for your birthday this year? And I must have been 12 at the time. And so we ended up going to the pet store and getting a cat because that was what I wanted.

Vance Crowe [00:48:53] Oh my God. Were your parents so upset when you came home with a cat? They

Brittany Kennedy [00:48:57] Weren't upset with me. They might not been. Of course you were 11. They might not have been happy with my grandma, but,

Vance Crowe [00:49:04] 'cause how are you ever gonna, you just the grand your grandma made like a what like a 12 year commitment? Right.

Brittany Kennedy [00:49:10] It was amazing. Best grandma ever.

Vance Crowe [00:49:13] Wow. Yeah. And then other things, you were the one going and begging for a potbelly pig like

Brittany Kennedy [00:49:20] Yeah, so the potbelly pig, when I was doing the shadowing at, in college, one of the receptionists had this potbelly pig that she couldn't keep. And so I was like, well, I'll take a potbelly pig. And so at the time I was driving a two-seater stick shift Miata and drove from Columbia back to St. Louis with the potbelly pig in the passenger seat with the top down. And I think the truck drivers are kind of looking at me like, wow, that girl is crazy. But it was my brother's birthday, I was going back to St. Louis for a concert and I was like, here Jimmy, like here's the potbelly pig. Like it was just, we had so much fun with that pot belly pig and it just kinda became, you know, part of the family to it went outside with the dog and

Vance Crowe [00:50:08] Wow,

Brittany Kennedy [00:50:08] I, you know, pigs are really smart.

Vance Crowe [00:50:10] Yeah, I mean I, I actually helped take care of a pot belly pig when I was, I don't know, maybe 13 or 14 years old. And they are really smart. Like they, they if, and like that's a funny thing about smart pets because you think like, oh I want a really smart pet. But really smart pet means they can get outta the things that, that you try and put them in, they can figure out how to open stuff. Like they can get into way more mischief.

Brittany Kennedy [00:50:31] Oh yeah. Like my parents have a golden now who opens the door and lets himself outside and inside and gets into a lot of mischief because of it.

Vance Crowe [00:50:40] So changing the subject, but we mentioned before your Instagram you seem to go on some really interesting and exciting like adventures and trips. When I look at somebody that's doing that kind of travel, I always wonder like, how do you get it in your head that that's the place that you want to go and then you just line up a trip and go there.

Brittany Kennedy [00:51:01] I guess inspiration, talking to other people, looking at pictures online and just trying to figure out where you wanna go. But yeah, I definitely love to travel and camp and hike and do like outdoorsy type stuff. Snowboarding and water skiing, so, yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:51:19] And where was the last cool place you went?

Brittany Kennedy [00:51:22] I was in Sedona last week. My brother was getting married in Phoenix and so my husband, who's also a veterinarian, we drove up to Sedona and hiked around for the day. And when we graduated veterinary school, we also did a trip to like the Grand Canyon and we hiked to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back up in one day, which most people don't do that. I wouldn't recommend it. It's

Vance Crowe [00:51:46] Kind of dangerous.

Brittany Kennedy [00:51:46] Yeah. It ended up being like 19 or 20 miles in the one day. But it was amazing. We had so much fun and I, you

Vance Crowe [00:51:54] Gotta be in pretty good shape for that. You, you're, you like running and walking all the time? No,

Brittany Kennedy [00:51:59] No. I think with work though, I walk a lot. I probably walk two miles a day just with work going all over the place. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:52:07] You're definitely not sitting at a desk all day.

Brittany Kennedy [00:52:08] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:52:09] Wow. So your husband's a veterinarian. Did you guys meet in vet school? We

Brittany Kennedy [00:52:13] Did, yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:52:14] Okay. What is something that's unusual about being married to another veterinarian that people wouldn't think of?

Brittany Kennedy [00:52:21] I think people probably think that we talk about work all the time and we really don't. We mostly talk about just normal stuff and if there is like an interesting case or something odd that happened, we'll talk about it. But most of the time we don't really talk about like veterinary stuff.

Vance Crowe [00:52:38] So doctors often, or at least like I had a cardiologist on here and he has to read medical journals, you know, regularly to try and keep up with what the science is. Is the same thing going on with veterinarians?

Brittany Kennedy [00:52:50] Yeah. So we do continuing education. There's requirement to kind of keep your license. I think it's 10 hours, every state is different with that. But I really enjoy going to conferences and things. And that's kind of another way that I I get to travel a lot is because these conferences, I mean they're in places like Hawaii or Florida or things like that. And so it really is kind of a work trip, but also just enjoying learning new things and listening to presentations and things like that.

Vance Crowe [00:53:21] And what is the highest achievement that a veterinarian can get to? Is it that they, they become speakers at these to, to present their new research or what, what's the

Brittany Kennedy [00:53:32] Status in that? Is definitely an honor for sure to be able to speak at that. I don't really know particularly like what I, I guess every person is different with what they're trying to do with their careers. The dean of the veterinary school at Mizzou is a, a dear friend of mine and a mentor and I, and she's definitely somebody that I look up to in the profession. But there, the interesting thing about the ve about veterinary industry is there are so many different avenues you can take. You can do public speaking, you can do research, you can own a clinic, you can work for corporate, you can, you know, travel. There's all different kinds of things that maybe people don't think about. And even like food animal industry, there's veterinarians that inspect all the produce that work consuming. I mean it, there's a whole lot of stuff. So I think that that's a very rewarding thing about the profession is if you wanna switch it up, you can.

Vance Crowe [00:54:29] And I mean, I guess that would be the case for why it's good that vet school has, you go from being able to treat cows and, and horses and cats and dogs and mice. Do you also see, like the challenge, do you think people maybe should specialize or do you like having it be that so encompassing, you know, instead of saying, Hey, you're gonna do small animal vet, so I'm gonna just study that, but get really good in that area? That's

Brittany Kennedy [00:54:53] A really tough question because I think there's definitely pros and cons to both. You know, part of me does think that if I have always wanted to do small animals, dogs and cats, that I would just kind of track that way in veterinary school to do what I'm doing now. But also on the flip side, I definitely feel like I am more well-rounded knowing about cattle, knowing about horses. I'm not, I wouldn't be comfortable enough to like treat a horse or a cow if now if I wanted to because there is so much of routine. You kind of

Vance Crowe [00:55:33] Right. Being

Brittany Kennedy [00:55:34] Four years the things small animal. Yeah. Yeah. You do it all the time. I feel like I'd have to relearn everything. But I think it is, it's definitely both. I, I'm glad I got the education that I did. I feel like I am very, I was very prepared to start my career.

Vance Crowe [00:55:53] So I asked you this when you walked in, but have you have not used one of these?

Brittany Kennedy [00:55:59] No.

Vance Crowe [00:56:00] So I don't know for sure that it'll change veterinarian world, but I think that it likely will.

Brittany Kennedy [00:56:06] Okay. Because

Vance Crowe [00:56:07] It, it would take too long for this thing to boot up. But when you put this thing on, right. Have you ever used anything with VR at all?

Brittany Kennedy [00:56:14] Like,

Vance Crowe [00:56:14] Have you ever used the Google cardboard and you could put your phone in a little thing and you can look around? Do you, do you have any sense for what this is like?

Brittany Kennedy [00:56:22] I don't think so. So the crazy

Vance Crowe [00:56:23] Thing about this is you will go to, we can do this afterwards. You put this thing on your head and once it's booted up in every direction you look, it is the, it's the simulation of what's going on in here. So it is the equivalent of having your mind transported somewhere else. Wow.

Brittany Kennedy [00:56:38] And

Vance Crowe [00:56:39] It is so completely encompassing that like, I flew through a Salvador dolly painting. Right. Wow. Where they have a statue and they're just, I am just in a video. Or you can go to Tahiti and get in on a surfboard and be inside of a wave. But you could also use this for having somebody put their pet in front of a camera and have it walk around and you could see its gait. You could see how it would move because it is like, you are right there.

Brittany Kennedy [00:57:07] That's awesome. Yeah. I think going back to your question about how medicine will change over the next 10 or 20 years, I think telemedicine is going to be a very interesting aspect to watch because there are things like this, different tools and I know even with my own insurance, being able to call a doctor and just have them call in my prescription, it's awesome. It's

Vance Crowe [00:57:32] Amazing. Right? And it, and it does cut out those stuff that you don't need to be in person for. I think that even outside of just medicine and I, I think this is going to have a bigger impact on the world than email. Or even Google did.

Brittany Kennedy [00:57:48] Wow. It,

Vance Crowe [00:57:48] It's going to be so profound because you could be sitting in a tiny apartment in Shanghai and suddenly be transported to the mountains of Sedona and be able to look all around and then pop it off and then it's gone. And I think it's gonna change what it means to know something. Right? Like think about how when you went to Sedona and you climb up on those rocks, there's a chance you'll fall down or get lost or you won't get back in time. In order to have that experience, you had to have some risk.

Brittany Kennedy [00:58:18] People

Vance Crowe [00:58:18] Will be able to have experiences minus the risk.

Brittany Kennedy [00:58:22] Wow.

Vance Crowe [00:58:23] Which like, I think that's gonna change the way people think about things. What do you think?

Brittany Kennedy [00:58:28] I think it's fascinating. I think I would have to try it to see exactly how it works because I am such a visual and hands-on learner. But it sounds amazing.

Vance Crowe [00:58:38] My wife doesn't like it because it makes her seasick, but it doesn't make me seasick.

Brittany Kennedy [00:58:43] It might make me seasick.

Vance Crowe [00:58:45] We'll try it. I'll I'll see what you think. Because I think like, so I took this over to my in-laws last week and it, I felt like it was that experience. You know, the first time somebody walked in and showed you a computer, did you ever know life with before a computer?

Brittany Kennedy [00:58:58] No.

Vance Crowe [00:58:58] You only had computers in your house, like since you were growing up? As

Brittany Kennedy [00:59:01] Far as I can remember.

Vance Crowe [00:59:02] Wow. So that's a difference. So I was, I'm just a little bit older than you and I can remember we got, my dad brought home an Apple, two Gs. And I remember the first time at booting up we had to learn how to use a mouse because you didn't, you didn't know how it would work. And like, so they had you play this game and then by the time you were done you're like, oh, okay. That's how the cursor works. So I love showing this to people because it will be something you will remember for the rest of your life. You'll be like, I remember the first time I saw that.

Brittany Kennedy [00:59:28] That's awesome.

Vance Crowe [00:59:29] And children will not have any idea what it was like to watch television on a, on a flat screen on the wall. It will be like, why did you do that? That seems silly.

Brittany Kennedy [00:59:38] Yeah. That's awesome. I'm excited to try it.

Vance Crowe [00:59:42] So you caught me at a very, like, I'm very excited about this 'cause it just got about a week ago.

Brittany Kennedy [00:59:46] That's awesome. I do feel like with diagnosing and treating animals, because our animals can't talk and tell us what's wrong as veterinarians, we rely so heavily on the physical exam

Vance Crowe [00:59:59] Touching it.

Brittany Kennedy [00:59:59] Yes. So I mean, nose to tail, eyes, ears, mouth. I mean, we look at absolutely everything with a physical exam. And so to not be able to cul and listen to the heart rate and see what the lungs sound like and know, you know, you can tell owners to check the temperature on their dog no problem. But can you teach an owner to listen to their dog's? Heartbeat. That's

Vance Crowe [01:00:24] A great point.

Brittany Kennedy [01:00:25] Know if there's a murmur or arrhythmia. I don't think so.

Vance Crowe [01:00:28] That's a really good point.

Brittany Kennedy [01:00:30] But this definitely could be helpful for like what you were describing with monitoring gait or especially if there already is a diagnosis, trying to assess how it's advancing or progressing for things like that. I think it's absolutely gonna be helpful.

Vance Crowe [01:00:45] So do you have a system, like a checklist of things that you go through? Like how do you make sure you do a thorough exam of a dog when every dog's different? Every problem is different. How are you doing that?

Brittany Kennedy [01:00:59] It's a, it's a nose to tail process. You know, you start with the eyes, you check with the palpebral where you touch the eyes and a menace to see if they can see. So you basically move your hand kind of towards their eye and see if they're blinking it. If they are, then they can see. If not, then you know, you could be dealing with a blind pet. And then I go very systematically from the literally the nose to the tail, checking the teeth, seeing if there's dental disease, checking the ears, if there's any sort of an ear infection, looking at all the coat and fur feeling if there's any kind of lumps or bumps anywhere, seeing if there's any, you know, fleas or things like that. And all this is coming into the process, feeling all the legs, joints, seeing if there's any areas of pain along the back, seeing if there's any neurologic defects, listening to the heart and lungs. All of that really comes into the physical exam process. Which, it's kind of funny because when I go to the human doctor, I'm like, why aren't you looking at me? I mean, they, they don't, they don't really look at you. But the difference is in human medicine, we can tell them where it hurts, what's wrong, and they can really focus and hone in on that one particular thing that we came in for. Whereas with pets, they, they can't tell us that where it hurts. And so we have to be, be advocates for that animal. We have to identify things that maybe the people don't even realize are, are going on.

Vance Crowe [01:02:25] Wow. I mean, that would force you into a sort of holistic care.

Brittany Kennedy [01:02:30] It is

Vance Crowe [01:02:30] That that that a, that a doctor that doesn't look at you doesn't have to do. That's interesting. Yeah.

Brittany Kennedy [01:02:35] I, I think prevention is the best medicine, especially like heartworm disease. It's amazing how many people come into the office and don't know about heartworm disease. Which is it, it's lethal. So dogs get heartworm disease from one mosquito. If one mosquito bites your dog, it can get heartworm disease. And they, I didn't realize that what it sounds like it's worms. They get about a foot and a half long. They live in the heart valve and it causes congestive heart failure. So once a dog comes up positive for heartworm disease, we can treat for it. But we're basically, it takes about six months. We're giving the dog a series of three injections that's like a chemotherapy drug where we're trying to kill the worm without killing the dog. Oh my God. So it's a super painful process for the dog. And it's very expensive. A 40, 50 pound dog. It's, you're looking at a thousand to $1,500 to treat for it because it does take six months. And because the injections are very expensive. So you can prevent for seven years of the dog's life, the cost of one heartworm treatment. So with prevention, I mean prevention is absolutely the way to go. And there are lots of, unfortunately in St. Louis, I mean heartworm is running rampant. I think last week we diagnosed seven dogs with heartworms.

Vance Crowe [01:03:49] That's shocking. People

Brittany Kennedy [01:03:51] Have to, you know, either pay for treatment or the dog's gonna die. Or some people will get rid of their dog if they can't afford it. But I mean that's kind of the reality of, of the situation with heartworm. And so prevention, I'm all about prevention.

Vance Crowe [01:04:04] And are there other things that people are not preventing? I mean a heartworm, that's just something you feed your dog like a little chewy thing, right?

Brittany Kennedy [01:04:11] Yeah, so there's oral prevention, topical, or there's actually a one year injection, which is my personal favorite. It's called Pro Heart 12. And so there's four big things that we prevent for in dogs. Heartworm is the most important one. But we also prevent for fleas, ticks, and internal parasites. Those are kind of the four things. Heartworm being the most important one. So even with the heartworm prevention and you give the prevention every 30 days, but if we forget by, you know, two days, three days, if our dog gets bit by a mosquito in that period of time it could get heartworm. Oh

Vance Crowe [01:04:45] Wow. It's that sensitive.

Brittany Kennedy [01:04:47] Yeah. So that's why the pro heart 12 is really great to make sure that we have that on board with the injection and we don't have to remember to give it every month.

Vance Crowe [01:04:56] So you're a very upbeat person. You also appear to be somebody that is industrious able to get things done. Right. Do you find it frustrating when you have patients that didn't do preventative care?

Brittany Kennedy [01:05:10] I, it's sad more than anything.

Vance Crowe [01:05:12] Okay.

Brittany Kennedy [01:05:13] Because of the reality of, you know, that kind of being a life or death thing for that pet. But I don't really get frustrated, kind of going back to, I can make my best recommendation, but I don't take things personally when somebody decides to not go with that recommendation. 'cause I feel like I've done all the best that I can to do my best and I'm able to sleep at night with that.

Vance Crowe [01:05:38] Well, I think that's good. I mean, you've gotta find a way to do that. And, and it's in everyone's best interest. If the veterinarians that they work with have a good way to balance their life.

Brittany Kennedy [01:05:47] What

Vance Crowe [01:05:48] Do you think you've learned about the loss of a pet that that would be important for other people to know?

Brittany Kennedy [01:05:57] I think it's about quality and not quantity. When it comes to quality of life. There's certain, there's some checklists out there and things like that that people can go through. But I usually tell people, you know, are they having more good days than bad days? Try to think of two or three things that your pet enjoys doing. And once they can't or don't enjoy two out of the three things, then I start thinking maybe it's time.

Vance Crowe [01:06:25] That's really good.

Brittany Kennedy [01:06:26] Yeah. So just enjoying the time that we have, but also whatever that person decides to do, it's really their choice.

Vance Crowe [01:06:36] And do they look to you to say, what would you do

Brittany Kennedy [01:06:41] All the time?

Vance Crowe [01:06:42] How do you respond to that?

Brittany Kennedy [01:06:43] It's really a hard question to answer because I had a golden retriever who was 13 years old and I knew he had cancer for about a year and a half. And just, it was lung cancer. It was not a good prognosis. And he passed on his own when I couldn't be there. And I think there is something so beautiful to be able to be present with the animal. It's normal to feel the, all those emotions when you lose a pet. The grief process is very involved and profound, but also different for every person.

Vance Crowe [01:07:21] Oh, I, so I was in Toronto when our dog, the Greyhound lady died. And so my wife was on the phone with me and I was not prepared for like, how much that was going to impact me because like, oh yeah, I had married into the dog. It wasn't, and so then I was sitting there being like, could, should we make the dog endure more pain just so I can get home? That doesn't seem right. Yeah. And then you had to do it on the phone. Like it was just, I, I was unprepared and if I had heard somebody else telling this story, I'd be like, just get over it. You know? But like, your wife is there, your dog is there. It's so sad. It

Brittany Kennedy [01:08:00] Is. And

Vance Crowe [01:08:00] I don't think that, I think that you're right. I think we've had 15,000 years of human dog interaction that makes that hard. Right? Which is what makes you say, I want to go get another puppy again

Brittany Kennedy [01:08:12] And

Vance Crowe [01:08:12] Keep doing it over and over again.

Brittany Kennedy [01:08:15] I think if I was passing from some incurable disease and if I was, you know, had no hope, how would I wanna go? I would wanna go with people petting me, giving me all the food that I want, telling me I'm beautiful. Like I think that the euthanasia is a very peaceful process and it's, it's very humane for the pet.

Vance Crowe [01:08:40] That's a great way to think of it. Good for you. You have, you have an extraordinary outlook on life. Like you're very sunny and you have this positive disposition, but you have a very low ego, at least in the way you're describing these things. What is the foundation that you gathered? You know, you said, I prayed and, and I got this answer. Like, where do you have this foundation for this egolessness and this kind of sunnier disposition?

Brittany Kennedy [01:09:07] I don't know. I've always been like that. I don't know if it's personality or if it, if there is some discipline maybe or if I've cultured this outlook in some way. But I, I do think having good mentors and people to support me and my dreams and aspirations, I would say that's a huge part of who I am.

Vance Crowe [01:09:30] And as you think about books or thing, like things you've seen on YouTube that you thought, hey, this is a good message. I think more people should either read this book or hear about this way of thinking about raising your pets. What, what would that be for you?

Brittany Kennedy [01:09:46] Well, my Instagram of course. Oh yeah. Well that's a

Vance Crowe [01:09:50] Good point. Fair, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah.

Brittany Kennedy [01:09:52] No,

Vance Crowe [01:09:53] Well I read a book by Temple Grandin. Well I've read most of it that dogs make us human.

Brittany Kennedy [01:09:59] I Temple Grandin is my hero. Really? I really like Temple Grandin. Yeah, she is amazing. She really revolutionized veterinary medicine in a lot of ways, especially with regards to cattle. So

Vance Crowe [01:10:14] Yeah, I know her pretty well. We, we like we we see each other at conferences. She's gonna come on the podcast.

Brittany Kennedy [01:10:19] I wanna meet her. Oh

Vance Crowe [01:10:20] Yeah. She said when she comes through St. Louis, she'll be on here. She was on Jared McDaniels podcast. Yeah. Okay.

Brittany Kennedy [01:10:25] I definitely want to meet her. That's like on my bucket list of things to do is to meet Temple Grande.

Vance Crowe [01:10:30] Well it's, it's easy enough to find her because be she shows up amazing shows. So I've been invited to the North American Meat Institute, which is where you have the cattle, where they go to the slaughterhouses. And these are people that get together at a conference to try and figure out what is the next most humane thing that we can do. And we have limits on how much we can do 'cause we have to pay for new grates or new lighting systems or new whatever. And she is there sitting in the back and people are reading off new amendments and how they're gonna build their plan. And if she doesn't like it, she marches right up to the microphone and says her thing. And then there are other people that have a deep expertise. It is fascinating to watch. So I don't know if you can come to a meet institute meeting I would love, but if you can, you should.

Brittany Kennedy [01:11:11] That would be awesome. I would love

Vance Crowe [01:11:13] That. Well I'll, I'll let 'em know because it's something to see somebody that has her way of looking at the world. How did you find out about Temple Grandin?

Brittany Kennedy [01:11:23] I think I watched an her Netflix video, just the story kind of about her life.

Vance Crowe [01:11:29] The Claire Danes one,

Brittany Kennedy [01:11:31] I think that was the one.

Vance Crowe [01:11:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Brittany Kennedy [01:11:34] Yeah. But she, she spoke at A VMA, which is American Veterinary Conference in Florida this past year about animals, the humane na, you know, how to take care of and all that humane. So she is amazing. She's really been revolutionary for veterinary medicine.

Vance Crowe [01:11:54] That book Pets Make us Human was like shocking to me because it wasn't just like, this is how you should pet your dog and this is, it is, it's helping you understand when your dog takes these actions. This is what it's trying to communicate to you. And I'm not very good at it, but I definitely took a lot more time to try and observe what my dog was doing and how it was expressing an idea. And it was really, really neat. I mean I, I think that's probably a skill you have.

Brittany Kennedy [01:12:24] I think maybe not being so aware of it, but yeah, you kind of pick up that kind of stuff in day-to-day life when we see some dogs that come in to the exam room that are more aggressive. And so trying to keep that a fear-free process for them, whether we need full on sedation and a lot of owners with aggressive pets, they know that, you know, this is what we're gonna have to do so that it's safe for the owner, the veterinarian, the animal. And we try to do everything in one full swoop so that we don't have to revisit the matter. But yeah, being, being bit by a dog is probably one big fear that I have.

Vance Crowe [01:13:06] Have you been bit by a dog?

Brittany Kennedy [01:13:08] Mild little nicks, but not anything severe. Knock on wood.

Vance Crowe [01:13:12] That's pretty good.

Brittany Kennedy [01:13:12] I like my face. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [01:13:14] That's pretty good. Is it common for vets to get bit

Brittany Kennedy [01:13:18] It, not if they're being safe and reading the body language and using sedation and doing fear free stuff. It's not, I, I think that taking those precautions and being more on the preventative side and just reading the situation before it elevates.

Vance Crowe [01:13:38] What, what do you know about pet body language that other people maybe wouldn't know? 'cause they don't see as many dogs as you do.

Brittany Kennedy [01:13:46] They're dogs. Being aggressive out of fear is something that I think people don't quite understand. They will have their ears more back kind of hunched down in the corner. And if they're afraid, you know, that's kind of why the food and treats and positive reinforcement really comes into play. I'm also a big proponent of veterinary visits just for treats. You know, just bringing your pet into the veterinary clinic to get treats and pets and love so that every time they go there, they're not just getting a shot, you know?

Vance Crowe [01:14:19] Oh, that's interesting. Do people do that?

Brittany Kennedy [01:14:20] Oh yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:14:21] Really?

Brittany Kennedy [01:14:21] Oh yeah. All the time. Because

Vance Crowe [01:14:24] Otherwise when they need their dog to be calm and patient, they're, they're freaked out.

Brittany Kennedy [01:14:29] Yeah. And it becomes a bit more pricey too if you have to do like the sedation and things. There are certainly some pets that regardless of what you do, they're going to need sedation or need a muzzle or things like that. But most of the time we try to tease the pet into thinking that it is, you know, I'm just going to the place where I get all the treats all the time instead of having it be, you know, a painful, if they're only going to the vet when they're painful, whether it be they've have a herniated disc in their back and they need pain meds, they're limping, they're getting a vaccine, you know, that kind of thing. We want it to be a positive experience for sure.

Vance Crowe [01:15:09] So speaking of, you know, like those experiences that a pet could have that would be not positive for them, things like declawing and the different practices, do those still happen? Are those still going on?

Brittany Kennedy [01:15:21] So St. Louis just outlawed decline in the city. Other countries have outlawed dec decline. It does still happen. Things like decline, ear cropping, tail docking, those are all more cosmetic elective procedures that, you know, for, especially with Declaw, if it is a matter of keeping the pet in the house or having that pet end up in the shelter, you know, declawing is definitely controversial, but it definitely does happen. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [01:16:00] I mean if I had a cat, if there was any chance that it would stay there, it would have to not tear up your furniture and, and if you have that, then yeah, you're right. The option if you can't declaw is getting rid of the cat.

Brittany Kennedy [01:16:12] And

Vance Crowe [01:16:13] So in the state of Missouri though, in other parts you can declaw.

Brittany Kennedy [01:16:16] Yes.

Vance Crowe [01:16:16] Wow, interesting. I didn't realize there were, what drives a city to, to make a pronouncement like that?

Brittany Kennedy [01:16:23] I don't know. I don't know what,

Vance Crowe [01:16:26] Because it seems like it would drive up the very thing you don't want, which is more cats in your shelter.

Brittany Kennedy [01:16:32] I think with it being in the city, those people that do wanna delaws still will maybe just go to the county. So I don't really know. And also, I don't know if it's really enforceable. I haven't heard anything about how they're enforcing it. So I think it kind of is more a political move maybe than anything.

Vance Crowe [01:16:49] Oh, that's interesting. Wow. Well I cannot thank you enough for coming by and talking all about pets. This is really great. And your sister was a hundred percent right that you would be fascinating. And I've never met anybody like you before, so this was great. And so thank

Brittany Kennedy [01:17:06] You Van,

Vance Crowe [01:17:06] Thank you so much. And I'll look forward, we have a podcast party every once in a while from the people that are guests and I'm sure there are a lot of people that would like to meet you.

Brittany Kennedy [01:17:14] Awesome.

Vance Crowe [01:17:15] But if people wanted to look you up, tell me the Instagram one more time.

Brittany Kennedy [01:17:19] Dr. Brittany Kennedy.

Vance Crowe [01:17:20] Brittany Kennedy. B-R-I-T-T-A-N-Y.

Brittany Kennedy [01:17:23] Kennedy. K-E-N-N-E-D-Y. Yep.

Vance Crowe [01:17:25] All right, well thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Brittany Kennedy [01:17:28] Thank you. So how do I, oh, I picked it up. How do I pick these? I don't know. I've never used this game before. I was just, it was, I had set it up and then that is so cool. What I feel like I'm oh, this. So if I keep walking, what happens? I'm like in,

Vance Crowe [01:17:57] Okay. Okay. So we got off the, we got done and, and we decided that you would try out the vr. Yep.

Brittany Kennedy [01:18:06] There's

Vance Crowe [01:18:06] Amazing. And while you were doing that, I flipped open Twitter and it has gone absolutely crazy with questions. And so you were like, well why don't we just hop back on and answer some more. So I'll definitely ask you some more questions. But first, what did you think of this?

Brittany Kennedy [01:18:20] It is crazy. That is so cool. Basically everywhere you look, it's 3D. There's objects you can pick up and interact with, and when you look up, there's thing, I mean, it's just awesome.

Vance Crowe [01:18:33] It's

Brittany Kennedy [01:18:33] Like a real did

Vance Crowe [01:18:34] When I told you about it. How close was I to being correct?

Brittany Kennedy [01:18:39] It's because I'm such a, a visual learner. It was hard to fully understand exactly what it was until I experienced it. But it's amazing

Vance Crowe [01:18:47] That that's what I think. I think there's no way to be able to explain it with words. Right.

Brittany Kennedy [01:18:52] What

Vance Crowe [01:18:52] You're capable of doing there. And you did the mildest of things, right? Like you weren't flying through the air or going under the water. Like, and, and what the crazy thing was, as soon as you put it on your head, you could figure it out. It weren't like ambling around being like, how do I do this? What was going on? What were you doing inside of your little dream here?

Brittany Kennedy [01:19:11] I was picking up cans and like opening a printer. It was like, kind of like a game room slash lab that I was in. And there were stars and robots and tv

Vance Crowe [01:19:25] Isn't this like trying to describe a dream? Yeah. Like, like to another person where you're like, I don't know, there were elephants. Yeah. So then there was like a kangaroo that came by.

Brittany Kennedy [01:19:33] Yeah. It's awesome.

Vance Crowe [01:19:35] So would you recommend that people go out and, and at least try it?

Brittany Kennedy [01:19:38] Absolutely. I

Vance Crowe [01:19:39] Think it is going to radically change society.

Brittany Kennedy [01:19:42] This is really awesome

Vance Crowe [01:19:42] Society. So let me pull up the Twitter and let's see what we got here. Have you ever dealt with a parvo dog? And, and actually the question is from Dwayne Faber, d Faber 84 have, has she ever dealt with a parvo dog and then question her career choice

Brittany Kennedy [01:20:02] Parvo? So parvo is interesting. So it's a, a virus that puppies get and it is something that we vaccinate for. So this is one of the, the core vaccines, the symptoms that we see of these puppies coming in are bloody vomiting and diarrhea. And it usually has about a 50 50 prognosis whether or not they're going to make it, it's really sad for sure. It also can be super rewarding when that puppy is reunited with its family and gets to go home. So it didn't make me question my career choice at all. It, it's really exciting when you get to reunite that family with that puppy. So

Vance Crowe [01:20:41] Yeah, my, I have a family member that had a dog that developed parvo and it was the saddest thing ever. Yeah. Because she was in the vaccine window, it just didn't quite work out and

Brittany Kennedy [01:20:50] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:20:51] Alright, let's see here. Where do you think the vet practice will go in 20 years? And now I'm gonna re-ask you that question. Now that you've seen vr, do you change your answer? Is it any different than what you thought?

Brittany Kennedy [01:21:02] I think we kind of touched on it earlier, but I do think that the telemedicine is gonna be a big advancement in human medicine. You can call in your doctor and have them prescribe medications now. And so using things like text message, having people, if there's a skin lesion, take a picture of that skin lesion and consult with a veterinarian and maybe they can prescribe something before, during, or after. Or also to reassess how maybe a wound is healing. Things like that.

Vance Crowe [01:21:33] And I would imagine that in like rural communities where you don't have a vet because they're in the bigger cities. Yeah. That, that would be really, really helpful.

Brittany Kennedy [01:21:40] So nationwide right now there is a huge veterinary shortage.

Vance Crowe [01:21:44] Oh, really?

Brittany Kennedy [01:21:45] Everywhere. So it's really, it's kind of a complicated reason I think, I think it has a lot to do with owners wanting more advanced care for their pets. Maybe not as many people are going to veterinary school for whatever reason there are because it's so competitive and difficult to get into. Maybe more people are going to try to become a human doctor, things like that. But there is a really big shortage. There are, I think I have a list of like 35 or 40 clinics in the St. Louis area that are trying to hire a full-time veterinarian and can't find an associate.

Vance Crowe [01:22:26] Wow.

Brittany Kennedy [01:22:26] So there's, I think it's like less than 1% unemployment rate for veterinarians. So the, the job market is very good.

Vance Crowe [01:22:32] Does it pay well then?

Brittany Kennedy [01:22:34] It does.

Vance Crowe [01:22:36] How, how? Well, how much does a starting out veterinarian, you know, like I'm, I'm sure it's different depending on your location, but is it, is it 80, 90,

Brittany Kennedy [01:22:45] Somewhere in that range? Yes.

Vance Crowe [01:22:47] Okay, interesting. So Nate Yeager wrote, he wants to ask about the growth of pet insurance and then you had, and then whether it was useful or not. So we did talk about that one, but Nate threw out a good question. Any other comments about the insurance? Oh, here's an interesting one.

Brittany Kennedy [01:23:01] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:23:02] Okay. So somebody else asked about mental health. How do you handle your mental health? Veterinarians also have mental health crisis on their hands. And I would love to know what they are doing to deal with it.

Brittany Kennedy [01:23:11] A lot of organizations, veterinary schools, conferences, things like that, they talk about mental health and mental wellness for the veterinary profession. I personally think too, putting the responsibility in the hands of the owners to basically just be nice to your veterinarian. And having people know that there is a, a, a very high suicide rate in the veterinary profession.

Vance Crowe [01:23:39] Both Is that true among men and women?

Brittany Kennedy [01:23:41] It

Vance Crowe [01:23:41] Is.

Brittany Kennedy [01:23:43] Wow. For both technicians and veterinarians, basically anyone in the profession is affected in some way. It's hard to have that compassion every day for people and be there a hundred percent for the, the client who, I mean, this is their family member and if something maybe doesn't go the way that I wanted it to or the owner wanted it to or what have you, it's, it's very easy to jump to blame the veterinarian and maybe say harsh things that it really does affect us is, you know, we're people too. Like it's it just being nice to your vet.

Vance Crowe [01:24:21] I I, I mean I really, my heart goes out here because I watch the suicide rate of men my age having climbed up. And I don't know any man that doesn't either know somebody or have a close friend that lost a friend to suicide and like a rise in it or a a or a profession Dealing with it profoundly like that is something that your heart breaks there. Right?

Brittany Kennedy [01:24:45] It really does. So there is a Facebook group for veterinarians called not One More Vet. And that stands for not one more vet in our profession, are we gonna lose to suicide? Because it has been such a widespread thing. I mean, every day we hear of losing another colleague

Vance Crowe [01:25:05] And you think like, we need these people to be able to care for our pets. Like the things that you're able to do, like the level of excitement and intensity and care that's not in me for other people's pets or anything like that. So you are a rare, you know, gem and so is your husband and all these other people because if you don't do it, there's no, nobody else will do it. This is awful. Yeah.

Brittany Kennedy [01:25:29] And even in talking about the veterinary shortage nationwide, that there's not nearly enough veterinarians to fill the job market and yet we are losing these colleagues to suicide. I mean, it really is heartbreaking. This Facebook group has, I think like almost 20,000 veterinarians in it. And people post and there's different hotlines that they can call and being connected and reaching out to colleagues and just being there as a support network when people need it because compassion fatigue and it, it's a real thing. I mean it's, it can be really exhausting at times.

Vance Crowe [01:26:12] So Andrew Smart Barnes Klein wrote and asked, how ethical is owning pets in an urban environment?

Brittany Kennedy [01:26:21] I think everyone should own pets. I I mean, from the standpoint of not being able to seek veterinary care,

Vance Crowe [01:26:26] I think probably it's more of the sense of you're taking these pets away from their natural. I I think he's, he, I, I don't wanna put words in his mouth, but I think he's being a smart ass because he's a farmer. He is out working in ag and I think he's saying there are a lot of people living in the city that tell us how to, how to run our animals to be more natural. And yet I don't think having pets in urban environments is natural.

Brittany Kennedy [01:26:49] Hmm.

Vance Crowe [01:26:50] But I mean, I disagree with that. I think pets are good in urban environments.

Brittany Kennedy [01:26:54] I think they're good everywhere. I think, I mean, the approach that cattle producers take towards their livestock is gonna be a cow is not a dog is not a cat. So the ranchers and the cattle people doing what their profession is, I mean, we need to support those, those industries too.

Vance Crowe [01:27:15] I, I agree.

Brittany Kennedy [01:27:16] I follow a veterinarian called Veal Vet on Instagram, and she is similar in age to me. She's a, a cattle veterinarian and she talks a lot about, you know, there's all this movement about like not eating meat. And she just talks about how that's really not having the impact that we want it to and that people should be consuming meat and they're really hurting the small rancher, cattle, rancher and these small businesses and supporting more, you know, monopolies out there.

Vance Crowe [01:27:53] Wow. And you, there are a lot of people that listen to this podcast. We'll be very glad to hear you say that. Although many of them would say that even the large cattle producers are are pretty good.

Brittany Kennedy [01:28:04] Oh no, I, I totally agree. I think absolutely they are.

Vance Crowe [01:28:07] So Kerry Cussin wrote, how often do people wanna provide medications or surgical treatments to their pet but can't because they can't afford it?

Brittany Kennedy [01:28:17] It's a very real, I mean, we deal with that every day. There are different options out there for that kind of stuff. So like some clinics will have a angel fund set aside where if the owner can't afford the care that their pet needs, especially if it's like a foreign body surgery, you know, the dog ate a squeaky toy and it's

Vance Crowe [01:28:42] Definitely a premature death.

Brittany Kennedy [01:28:44] Yeah. It's stuck in the intestines. It needs to have surgery. You know, the surgery, you're looking at 1500 to $2,000 a lot of times for the removal of this object. And if the dog doesn't have the surgery, it's gonna pass away. There are different programs out there like an angel fund and just calling around to different shelters, clinics, doing a GoFundMe, just really exhausting all options to try to get the financing for that. And again, kind of thinking outside the box I think is really good for, for that kind of scenario.

Vance Crowe [01:29:20] My good friend MB flip flops one who's my friend Miriam from down in the University of Florida, who actually is the one that brought me down to the University of Florida, asked, said something, ask her about the not one more vet movement and why suicide in our profession has skyrocketed in the past years. I, we kind of have already addressed this. Do you see this tide stemming? Do you see anything that you wish people, I mean, I guess you're talking about the hotlines and the

Brittany Kennedy [01:29:48] Veterinarians take their work with them. You know, we're supposed to get off at five and sometimes we don't get off till seven or eight because the emergency walked in as the last appointment of the day. And as a profession, we miss out on things, children's family members, events and birthday parties. And I mean, any vet you talk to has missed out on things because of their work. And I think having clear boundaries as a professional saying what it is that you need, not being taken advantage by people wanting free advice from a veterinarian, sending a text or, you know, I mean, it's, it's really tough with heartbreaking.

Vance Crowe [01:30:36] I get bet that's gotta be hard. It's

Brittany Kennedy [01:30:37] Heartbreaking.

Vance Crowe [01:30:37] You've got like half friends that are like, here, check this out. And you gotta be like, Hey, I can't bring this work home with me. I've gotta, yeah.

Brittany Kennedy [01:30:43] And we talked about like the starting income of, of new graduate veterinarians. Well, the reality is the debt of classmates of mine, the average was $150,000. So if you think about kind of quality of life for the, the professional, right?

Vance Crowe [01:31:04] You know, you're coming out, they're buried under debt and then they're trying to do this. I mean, there something has to change with our education system because the amount of debt that people have that they're taking on when they're young and they choose to take it on. But the way that this is ballooned, I I believe like it doesn't really matter how we got here. We've gotta solve this problem. Yeah.

Brittany Kennedy [01:31:26] And,

Vance Crowe [01:31:26] And I'm not sure how you solve it, but it is really important that we pay attention to it. Because if you're talking about this debt is crushing them, we gotta build a new university system or we gotta build a new way, a new path for people to get on so they don't have to take on that much debt in order to be able to make it happen. It

Brittany Kennedy [01:31:43] Is absolutely crushing, crushing, you know, you graduate with all this debt and you're basically being kind of like slave labor. I mean sure are you making an income, but the interest rates are average 7%. So even though you're trying to, and it accumulates while you're in school. So all four years while you're taking out this debt, it's accumulating. And so even if you graduate with $150,000 of student loans and you're paying that off, you're never touching the principal. So most veterinarians, even 10, 20 years out of school, really have a significant amount, a debilitating amount of student debt.

Vance Crowe [01:32:22] My, which

Brittany Kennedy [01:32:22] Is a huge part of quality of life.

Vance Crowe [01:32:24] And I, I mean it's an epidemic across our country. And my belief is it started in 2002 when they said you can't declare bankruptcy on your loans. Because What happened when that happened was now a bank has a risk-free borrower. So they want to pump that borrower up with as much money as they want as they can because there's no doubt that they're gonna get paid back for it. And then the administration and all of the parts of the university say, Hey, we can charge as much as we want because the banks will give them as much as they want. And so price keeps going up. The value of the education hasn't gone up. And you have people that are trying to live what they were told was the American dream, for whatever reason they took on this crushing debt for what this return is. But it's not a good situation. It

Brittany Kennedy [01:33:10] Isn't. And

Vance Crowe [01:33:11] I, I personally believe it creates political instability because you start having a lot of people that are in debt and they don't have a way to get out of the debt, even with a, you know, an 80 k salary. They start looking around for somebody that can help them.

Brittany Kennedy [01:33:24] And

Vance Crowe [01:33:24] That's, that's when things go sideways.

Brittany Kennedy [01:33:26] Absolutely.

Vance Crowe [01:33:27] Well, I've got another question for you. This is what I'm very interested to hear. This is Ryan Bettencourt and he wrote, what does she think of properly formulated plant-based diets for dogs?

Brittany Kennedy [01:33:40] Kind of goes back to the grain-free thing,

Vance Crowe [01:33:42] Right?

Brittany Kennedy [01:33:44] I'm a, I'm a big proponent of the big companies that have been around for 20, 30 years and they do all the research in St. Louis. We have the Purina and Royal Canaan facilities, which if you've ever been inside of them, they're absolutely immaculate and they put tons of effort into research and development of their products. So, I mean, there's always gonna be a new fad. You know, I'm interested to see kinda what the next fad is like the home cooked diets were a big thing and now they're kind of tapering off a little bit. There's always gonna be a food fad. But, so I like sticking to the tried and true and what is backed up by research.

Vance Crowe [01:34:22] I, this is a very interesting topic because the guy that asked you that is a CEO of a company called Wild Earth Pets, which is trying to make vegan dog food. And Jared McDaniel, who I've mentioned earlier, and Dwayne Faber, who I talked about before, we were up in Canada at a beef or at a cattle conference. And I was talking about how I think the disruption that's going to come to the animal ag industry is that you may be able to synthesize proteins that used to be in meat and be able to put them in things like pet food and that will cut out a certain percentage of the market. Now there are a lot of people that disagree with that, but I think that if people could buy synthetic dog food, like what they call slaughter free, they would,

Brittany Kennedy [01:35:07] I think so. Absolutely.

Vance Crowe [01:35:08] It's not there yet,

Brittany Kennedy [01:35:09] But

Vance Crowe [01:35:10] That's what people in the city would want, I think. Do you you agree with that?

Brittany Kennedy [01:35:13] I do. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:35:14] Well, that'll be interesting. Well, okay, so we have gotten to the end. There's a ton of people liking a bunch of the tweets that were out there, so we've answered them all. I am so glad you were here. Thank you. Thank you for trying on the VR set and then coming back to answer Twitter questions. This has been a blast. Tell your sister I said hello. And one more time, your Instagram handle is

Brittany Kennedy [01:35:37] Dr. Brittany Kennedy.

Vance Crowe [01:35:38] Dr. Brittany Kennedy. Thank you.

Brittany Kennedy [01:35:39] Thank you.