Simone and Malcolm Collins: AI, Religion and the Future of Civilization

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:00:00] We should be working towards super intelligence. We need artificial intelligence is the awesome I, yeah, we, we've already reached functionally a GI people keep moving the, the goalposts. So now we do need super intelligence. It's true. I mean, remember, hold on. Remember when we were younger and people used to be like, well, will know when we have ai, when it can pass the Turing test? And then we just blew right past that. Welcome

Vance Crowe [00:00:24] Back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. Malcolm and Simone Collins joined me to talk about ai, their new form of religion that they're using to guide their future and some projects that they've been working on. I have to say that Malcolm and Simone are some of the most Overton window smashing people that I've ever met. They have concepts and ideas. They're talking about political positions and strategies that are way outside of even what I encounter. So I believe that you are in for quite a wild ride. We're gonna get to that in just a moment. But I wanted to let you know we have a few seats left for our November interest based communications course. This is a course I built to help highly logical people be able to express themselves and advance both their professional and personal lives. I start off by teaching about interest-based negotiating. Then we do an entire section on storytelling and how you introduce yourself so that others are curious to know more about you. We then have a section on becoming a better listener and communicator, and then we talk about conflict resolution and finish off with an entire program on presenting. We do this over three days here in St. Louis, Missouri. And it is a course that people have told me is life changing and profoundly helps their personal and professional lives. If you're interested to learn more, go to Articulate Ventures slash IBC. Eat power of listening in conversation.

Vance Crowe [00:01:56] It's like in cycling when you have to fuel to make sure you have the energy to get around the race course and to get over the next hill. Being a better listener fuels you. It fuels you with more information. It fuels you with more power. Effectively. I would say that I've improved my ability to listen strategically and by strategically I mean deliberately. Selfishly, I'll get more from the conversation if I focus more selflessly on them during the conversation, I think these things will be profound and, and helping me be a better listener. I totally endorse it. I totally recommend it For businesses, for individuals seeking career advancement, figuring out how to better empower themselves for the next stage of their life, a thousand percent

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:02:42] Interest-Based Communication. Learn more at Articulate Ventures slash IBC,

Vance Crowe [00:02:48] Malcolm and Simone Collins, welcome to the podcast.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:02:51] Hello. Excited to be here with you today.

Vance Crowe [00:02:54] So guys, I haven't talked to you both as a couple before, but I've interviewed each of you individually several years ago, but I decided I would reach out and we've been chatting about AI and I thought, why not bring you guys back on, get an update about all things parenting, your Puritan techno movement and all things ai.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:03:16] So yeah, that was Asian.

Vance Crowe [00:03:17] We can jump in wherever.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:03:18] So you, it, it's funny, one of the fun things about us as guests is we both apparently on your charts where you go over how guests score on various metrics. We both came out as extremes, if I remember, and, and very related extremes in terms of, I think it was technical accuracy or something like that. Or, and then close to Mike Vassar.

Vance Crowe [00:03:39] Yeah, it's funny. So for anybody on the show that doesn't know, I had my, my AI do like a deep dive analysis of all of my podcasts, including scoring the guests based on their vocabulary sky like size, their, their reasoning skills, social warmth, and I can't remember a couple of other traits. And then I was able to like say like, who, where are the extremes? How do people compare? And I compared Malcolm and Simone and it showed how they are in many ways kind of yin and yang polar opposites.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:04:15] But we both sit very high on reasoning. No, we're, if I remember in complimentary ways, which is why we're a good couple because I, I would not want to marry someone who shared my shortcomings. I remember what it was. We were both some of the outliers on reasoning, but we were also outliers on you being very high warmth and me being very low warmth.

Vance Crowe [00:04:31] Yeah. That's what sticks out to

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:04:33] Me. Oh, and just like that is so our show though, I'm like, okay, we gotta wipe 'em all out. And she's like, come on Malcolm, there has to be a, a more humane method like mass sterilization. And I'm like, God, Simone, you're always so sweet, so caring. I love that. That's the two extremes of our show. Good. Still at one end of the spectrum there. But the, and also very different in terms of when we were first on the show, we were like small time podcasters and now we're at, you know, well over a million views a, a month, right? So we're doing pretty good now and we have been working on a lot of AI stuff that is our core area. I could, I could go over all the stuff our AI tech could do. And it's not just tech that we have built personally. It gets a ton of use at any given time. There are hundreds of people using our technology, and it is used for things as diverse as the horny AI dating to making not safer work comics to kids, educational apps to tutors for our children, to little devices that you can carry around that record everything your child is hearing across the course of their day and then analyzes it to see if they're exposed to any woke nonsense or any like weird gender ideologies. So like, we cover both ends of the spectrum and we usually run the children's based stuff at a loss and we use any of the like deviant stuff to fund all of the positive promotional stuff for society.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:06:19] And people are like, well, why would you do that stuff? It's because if we can completely create a virtual iterations, like if you're, if you're like, I want to eradicate only fans as an industry, I want to eradicate the pornography industry as an industry, you can say, well, we can do it by converting everyone to art religion, or we can do it by teaching people moral decency. And then I'm like, okay, that's really gonna work within our lifetime. Or, or I could just make AI do all of it better, cheaper and more personalized and destroy those industries in the next 25 years while taking all the money I make from doing it and funneling it to breaking the woke strangle holds on civilization. I think I'll do that, you know, use, use their own de degeneracy against them. And so this

Vance Crowe [00:07:06] Has to be the, the most magnificent opening for wildly diverse and and outlandish ideas. It leads me to a question, Malcolm. You said a million people a month are listening to you guys. Is that because you have found a million people that think like you? Or are you converting a lot of people towards thinking the way that you guys think?

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:07:30] So I can tell you that we have almost no hate viewers. YouTube has stopped showing like to dislike ratio, but ours was unusually hot. It was around 98% on average for, for most episodes except for episodes that were like explicitly built to be controversial. And so the, the, and that surprised me. Like I really feel like we structure our show to bring in haters, right? Like we love being controversial for the sake of being controversial. We love poking at sacred cows, but we have been able to build a pretty big audience. Now, not everyone in our audience agrees with all of our perspectives, right? Like we have a lot of fans who disagree with us on a lot of a lot of things, right? But in disagreeing with us, they're still in our wider community of agreement. And by that, what I mean is if you look at the intellectual community that we and has sort of built around not just us, but like a collection of intellectuals online and we're a part of it that is often called like the new right, or the nerd, right? It's built around the idea that all you really need to be authenticated as a member of the community is to appear to be honestly looking for good answers to

Vance Crowe [00:08:52] Help

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:08:52] Future human flourishing and save civilization, right? And this is why in the community, if we're talking about like who's in the whiter nerd, right? Community, one of the most viewed people, I mean he probably gets over a million views per day, is Asma Gold. And you know, Asma Gold is, is pro-abortion until birth, right? And you would think that would push him out of a, a right wing community. And it doesn't, you have figures like Knox, who's an Orthodox Jew who probably gets at least half a million views a day. Then you have some of the most loved figures in the community, like shoe on head who people call commun mommy because she's literally still an avowed socialist. And the people can be like, that's a really weird community to be like the modern online, right? And it is the on, I mean like if you're talking about like what's happening in four chan, if you're talking about what's happening in the Discord forums, if you're talking about like the actual sort of alive right wing online community, it's sort of built around these sorts of figures. And Jake Monroe, who's a goth TechOne, who's an old gamer, oh, and Nur the Orthodox too used to do hint eye reviews, right? Like, and now he's like a big right wing online political commentator. And all of us sort of come together on one thing, which is that we are trying to be honest, so where our community disagrees with us, it doesn't cause dis dislike because they believe that we are at least honestly searching for truth.

Vance Crowe [00:10:21] And like, I guess what I think of whenever you're saying all these names of people, the only ones I know are the most bombastic to me it seems like you're describing maybe like a, like a Marvel characters in terms of just their, their like splash this on things, right? They have opinions that people pay attention to more than I would describe them as right wing leanings. It's interesting that you put the circle around, you know, the Right,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:10:48] So there are people who, people on the left would call Nazis. All of us have been called Nazis. I, I guess I'd say that we are considered if, if you talk within an online mainstream leftist circle, this is to say the staffers of your average democratic congressmen who are in their twenties and like aware of what's going on on the internet, they would categorize everyone I just listed as a far right, I I guess you could say internet presenter or Yeah, but in any normal world they would be called centrists for the most part. But now they're far right? Yeah. Which, which helps our cause because you know, being a bigger tint allows you to bring in more people, allows you to have a bigger voting base. I mean, there's a reason why in the last election cycle we had the majority of Hispanic men vote for Trump, right? Like we actually do cast a very wide tint

Vance Crowe [00:11:42] And like when you are talking about we, are you referring to you and Simone or is there a larger We tent,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:11:48] You're trying nerd, I mean the nerd right? Is a very important, the nerd, right? Is a community that within the bowels of places like four chan turned Trump from a political joke into a guy who was able to win the Republican primary. Now after that he got the mainstream Republicans on board, but in the very early days, the one community that was fastidiously behind him was four chan in the internet nerds, right? And the other thing that one of our friends who's like a, a v YouTuber, there's a lot of V YouTubers in this community, always says is like win the right. Like when Matt Walsh goes out and like slams anime and slams people who play video games, she's like, that's a little hu you know, righteous of you to do that because we're the only community that doesn't have any major scandals. We're the only community in the right that doesn't turn on each other. That doesn't turn our backs on Trump when he does one thing that we don't like. We're, we're like, in terms of like the loyal part of the base, we're probably the single most loyal part of the right-wing coalition when I see like the Boomer, right? They're like, oh, Trump said dump something naughty. And we're like, we don't care. They, or, or or Oh he's too pro this or too pro this. We're like, look, as long as he's still trying to save civilization, this is, we're gonna have his back for now. And, and really it all happened because they started messing with our video games, which is the funniest part of all of this.

Vance Crowe [00:13:09] It's, I, as I'm hearing you describe this, I'm hearing you use terms like loyalty, but you're also earlier talking about like your desire for truth and nerds and getting the answers right. It's, these seem like

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:13:22] There, there I think perfectly aligned ideals if you care about saving civilization. Western civilization is really civilization at this point. I mean, as westerners, that's a civilization we should be focused on. If you, if you care about that, it is very clear that in this great two-sided fight of what we call the urban monoculture or the left or whatever you want to call it, and the right one side literally wants to tear down civilization like that, that that is at this point their stated goal is the eradication of everything our ancestors have been. And we, we mean that in a fairly explicit way. Like if you go to the actual platform of the Democratic Socialists of America and read what they're, you know, they want to abolish the, the, the con, sorry, the Senate, they wanna abolish the judiciary. These are, these things are period, the president, yeah, the executive, they want to, you know, endless immigration from places where people both say they don't share our values and haven't been able to build the same level of civilizational infrastructure and then after they move here, they don't act in the same way as people from our civilization are acting and they're causing huge negative externalities for the rest of society. If you actually care about civilization, you can disagree, you can, you can say, well I want a socialist civilization or I want a civilization with more choices or I wanna sit, but there's still very clearly only one side that's actually fighting to preserve civilization at this point. And that's where the loyalty comes from.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:14:53] It's because unlike if, if you're talking about the real fight that's happening in the bowels of the internet, there's really only two active sides on the right, the boomer, right? They're not part of this conversation. Okay? It's us, the nerd, right? And then the grippers, which is Nick Fuentes is faction, right? And largely we are winning right now, like 90% to 10% winning at this point in terms of like who's actually staffing what, when, when the Department of War is going on a Twitter speed against the effect of altruist movement. I'm like, that's people from the new right in the movement when they released Fauci Diaries and they dress him up like a 17-year-old girl's diaries. I'm like, that's somebody who grew up on four chan, right? Like this is clearly influencing the way that the White House tweets out and stuff like that. When, you know, when JD Vance is talking about Hassan shocking his dog, you know, he's learning that from watching the content that people like us are producing. But there, there is this, this conflict between our side and the, the Fuentes side and his side does not have loyalty because his side doesn't actually care about saving civilization. What they care about is imposing their very specific value set on everyone else. And they're willing to say, vote Democrat, screw this person over in a primary, we're gonna withdraw our votes if they can't achieve that. And that was in the wider nerd, right? Coalition is quite a disgusting thing to do, but really important to emphasize is the loyalty is to open discourse to human flourishing and broadly to western civilization.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:16:29] And so it's, it's not as though you would stand for someone's point per se, but you would stand for their right to say it and for your right to trash talk them. And the argument being that the shared understanding being that we want humanity to flourish, which is not necessarily a shared understanding. Well, and, and that requires winning. So if I go out there and I say something like, so we can have a conversation being like unchecked Indian immigration into the United States has caused nepotism within the tech industry that many people feel is unfair, has cost them their jobs and is a real and systemic issue. But if we go out there with explicitly anti-Indian talking points, we are going to lose a portion of the voter base that we need to win elections. And so we need ways to talk about these issues, to talk about issues of Latin American immigration that doesn't disenfranchise the 50% of Latin American men who voted for Trump so that we can have them within the coalition continue to win election cycles. This is what it looks like to have a conversation where what your goal is, is actually winning and not looking like the most right wing person in the room.

Vance Crowe [00:17:33] Earlier, Malcolm, you had said you had made a comparison, you used the word urban as like one of the defining characteristics opposite of your side. Tell me more about that. Why that, that kind of dichotomy there.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:17:45] Well, the urban monoculture is just what we call it is the, the culture that is dominant in a place like New York or Manhattan or Paris or London or anywhere you go on earthy these days at Rio, you know, they've sort of evolved into just one bla blah culture. And it's a very aggressive culture that doesn't reproduce on its own. Its members don't have children and it can only survive by parasitizing a demographically healthier cultures. It's very few demographically healthy in, in, in total cultures on earth right now. And they, that's, that's who we're fighting against. They're the ones who want to, they're the ones who, you know, put up deliberately ugly sculptures to try to demoralize people. I mean, we saw this as a communist plan. This

Vance Crowe [00:18:27] Was

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:18:27] Read into the congress, the communists say we want to put up explicitly uly art because it will demoralize people. Now we see this all over the place. Why are people putting up explicitly ugly art? Oh, we know they're, they're literally anti civilization.

Vance Crowe [00:18:40] It's just interesting to me when I hear this framing because when I think, okay, the opposite of urban would be rural. Rural is a group of people that I would say I have like a, a strong understanding of us rural culture. Yeah. And I would think that many of the things that you espouse, they would be just as strongly against as they would be to Muslims or Hindus in the sense that like you are, they, you are living out a religious faith with specifically without God. So it would be like, that would be anathema to them.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:19:13] Oh no, we believe in God, just not in the way that they do. I mean, we are biblical literalists. Our form of Christianity is a biblical literacy. Christianity is just that they believe in a supernatural God and we believe in a real God. And I would say, look at everything else. You apply the word supernatural to ghosts, goblins, vampires, things you don't really, really believe in. It's funny that their attack on us is that we really believe that God is a real thing and they think that God is like, I don't know, a ghost thing. And they're mad at us for not thinking that as well. But this is a, this is something that I think a lot of people, when some Christians hear this, they're like, wait, that's closer to what I believe. Like let's have a conversation about this. And then because we've done talks with many Christian theologians, Jewish theologians, and they've been, I think fairly surprised by how much we align on in our theology. That said, even the Christians in America who live rurally, they're not stupid. They know that the rural regions of America cannot win elections by themselves. They need to find a unifying ideology that can rope in parts of just surrounding or cores. And not just that, but the future of human civilization. Anyone who's paying attention right now knows you need sort of two groups on your side. One group is the tech lords, okay? The tech lords are incredibly important to wherever humanity is going, the people who control the ai, the infrastructure, the building, the tech companies.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:20:50] And so you have to have an ideology that can appeal to them and bring them over to your side. What the nerd right has been able to do is align the interests of the tech lords with the interests of urban America, sorry, rural America, right? So look at Peter Thiel, look at JD Vance, look at Elon Musk, look at all of these people who we bring up. Look at Andrew Horowitz. Look at like, we've been able to bring over a lot of tech lords. Even Sam Alman has been, you know, flirting with right-wing ideas recently. Like clearly we've been able to do this effectively. If you are a farmer and you say, I don't need the people who control what's going to be like 90% of the future of the world's economy on my side, your kids are gonna get your civilization is gonna get fucked. Like clearly if civilization is defined by productivity and money goes to more productive people, especially in the world of tech where you're building stuff like this, you need to bring those people over to your side. And the second group you need on your side are the culture warriors, which are the mean lords. And you can have all the conversations in your local community you want, but if those conversations aren't within 10 years reflected in what's going on was in the halls of power of the White House or something like that, they're not going to be particularly relevant. But it was this four chan culture, right? If you look at the, the fight that happened 10 years ago between four chan, which was the right, and Tumblr, which was the left, and they were fighting each other online and everyone said, why do you care what these internet nerds are doing all day? Right?

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:22:22] The fight that these internet nerds had now is what is dependent of what the White House is tweeting. If you've seen the White House Twitter feed recently, like it's clearly run by someone of this cultural group, not somebody from purely the rural right cultural group. But this cultural group cares about the specifically preserving the values of the rural, right? And the reason why they care about preserving the values of the rural right, is their entire alliance, the entire nerd, right? Alliance is based on the idea of cultural autonomy. Eeg you don't with our community, right? And that is really, really important to the rural individual because if you could build cultural autonomy into the value set of a governance structure that is shutting down public schools or their ability to convert your kids into their wacky nonsense that benefits them as much as it benefits us. Now, they could say, but I want everyone to think the way I do. The problem is that they don't have enough votes to win if that's what they're voting on, which is why they need coalition builders. And we even saw this in, what was that great study on voting behavior where it showed that the way that, oh, it was on the way groups, oh two monkey groups, the way they ended up killing each other. Okay? So there were two groups of monkeys and they had this giant civil war and they ended up almost all killing each other. And the, the thing that caused the civil War, as it turned out that there, you're talking about the Chimp war, the chimp war of 2026. They, they, a bunch of academics covered it this month. Go on. So there were a couple chimps that within the two groups would help them socialize with each other and help translate the ideas of one group to the idea that the other group, and then they happened to die at the same time based on a disease.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:24:06] And that led to their communities fighting each other. Now, what the left has fortunately done for the right is everyone who was vaguely adjacent to the right, left and said, Hey, let's try to understand all sides of this issue. Hey, maybe we shouldn't be so dogmatic. Maybe we should try to genuinely look for what works and what doesn't work. They were scared out of the left and so much so that they made up most of the Trump administration. I mean, look at Elon, look at JD Vance, look at Kennedy. Look at Trump himself, right? It was these people who were willing to say, Hey, let's coalition build. Now the right has a lot of coalition builders and this is part of how we're going to win and why the left is struggling so much right now, if the right decides to target its coalition builders, which I think very few Christians who are serious about saving Western civilization want to do because they can just run the numbers we are gonna lose too.

Vance Crowe [00:25:01] Wow. I don't even know where to go with all of this. I, I think I've been focused as you're talking on this concept that on the right you are differentiating yourself from Nick Fuentes and the Roers, which I would say is, you know, the movement that has definitely exploded the Overton window and, and new concepts and ideas and people and parts of culture know a lot about Nick Fuentes, but I I guess I wasn't anticipating you to put yourself opposite of them.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:25:32] Well, they've, they're, they know a lot about them because it's what the left wants the right to be. If they can convince the average dumb dumb person that the right or the new right or the future of the right is Nick Fuentes and his ilk, it is very easy to turn them against it, right? The left wins by presenting a straw man, right? And so most of Nick Fuentes growth has been been by his constant platforming by leftists because they want us to be that. But if you actually look at statistics and you're not looking at, you know, third worlders, which can really confuse a lot of people on the right around what the average person in the right thinks when you see like us going to war in Iran, which our side was for, and the Fuentes side was really against, and when you polled actual MAGA conservatives, it was one over 90% of conservatives and I think over like 95% of MAGA that was pro going to war in Iran, right? If you look at the actual base, they're more aligned with us. Nick Fuentes is faction makes up a vanishingly small faction. They just have a lot of external ammo from the side that in the same way people can be like, why is the left platforming Nick Flinches so much? It's like, well why did the Southern Poverty Law Center fund the KKK? Why were they funding the American neo-Nazi group? It's because they need racism to exist in the right, in a, in a big meaningful way for them to have a platform where they can convince people to vote for things that are clearly not in their interest. Really, it doesn't matter if you're telling a story at the family reunion or telling a story to your kids at night or telling a story to your manager who can unlock resources for you to do something.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:27:17] It all needs to be a good compelling story. You, you go into the course thinking that maybe you're a good communicator or thinking that you're a good storyteller and then you actually get to practice that and realize maybe I am not as good of a storyteller as I thought, or, or maybe it's just something I need to, you know, sharpen up and practice. This course was great to go through because it reminded me that I do have that muscle memory. I just need to put in the reps. I just need to pick up the weights again and keep building because I do have it within me to tell better stories. I do have it within me too, ask better questions. And I think I've gotten lazy, you know, it's easier to get frustrated with people and just be like they don't understand versus like, instead of getting frustrated, getting curious, Interest-Based Communication, learn more at Articulate Ventures slash IBC

Vance Crowe [00:28:15] When you are talking about things that are in people's interests, you supported going to war in Iran. To me, the people I hear out in the world, I, I'm not anywhere near as in touch with politics as you are, but people are pretty pissed off at how much this is impacting fuel and how diesel prices are gonna make prices on everything go up. It wouldn't

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:28:35] Make this why this is, this is what I hear. I go on Twitter and I get that perception. Then I look at the polls and I get the exact opposite perception. And my question is, is are we being lied to? And the answer is that I think a lot of people are frankly being manipulated because in the past 10 years the internet has opened itself to a lot of third worlders and a lot of third worlders have grudges against groups that your average American doesn't really care that much about, specifically Indians and Jews. Whereas if you talk about the groups that your average American has more of a problem with, it's not to say, as I pointed out, that there are not problems with Indians and Jews in the United States. It's just that for most people who have actually lived in America, other groups might be slightly more top of mind. And the reason why within the online discourse within the Nick Fuentes discourse within stuff like that, it's those groups that go to the top. It's because that these are the groups where you can get a large, you know, pakistanian African audience to be very excited about you trashing them and it boosts your numbers and it makes it look like you have a large audience overall. And then this explains why when you actually look at the polling on these things, a lot of Americans are like, oh, that country that used to chant deaths to America every day, we don't have boots on the ground. Sure. And you can be like, oh, they don't like that. It's knocking up our fuel prices who's like the largest oil producer in the world right now. Right. Especially now that we have Venezuelan oil America who benefits the most from the strait of her moose being choked off right now, America by far, America not, not just because of our fuel, but because of the people that hurts the most.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:30:09] It hurts China the most, our primary geopolitical enemy. And it hurts the various powers in the Middle East the most, another primary geopolitical enemy of ours. Like if you are going to try to shadow, organize who this war benefits the most, it's the long-term interests of America. Geopolitics, which is one of the reasons why the nerds are typically like, oh yeah, sure. Also, we're really tired. I mean, I think one thing that our, our movement is, is is pretty big on these days of people internationally pushing us around, whether that's the un, the eu, you know, they'll all say, oh, it would be really great if somebody did something about Iran and then we do it and they all whine, we just don't care anymore. If somebody pisses us off, like Maduro, we send in space Marines that blast them with some sort of space Ray and everyone falls on the ground and is foaming at the mouse and bleeding from their eyes. We go and extract their president and we say, now you do what we tell you to, if a country says a death to America, and they're like, and, and it's only a few months until we have a nuke, until we have enough material for it, we say, okay, you're fine dead and your family's dead and everyone we're gonna just keep bombing you until whenever. And people are like, well that's led to a really difficult situation. It's like, yeah, okay. Fuel is, if I remember recently, it's not, it hasn't gone up that much.

Vance Crowe [00:31:27] Well, diesel's up about 75% since the start of your on 78% diesel. I mean,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:31:32] I I was thinking oil more generally, but stock

Vance Crowe [00:31:33] Like a, but I mean basically diesel is how we get the goods of everything in on earth to us, right? At some point it's put in a truck and it's driven to us. And so I I I guess what I'm saying is there are a lot of people that right now I think are calling a win on the Iran war. It was just interesting to me because I hadn't heard somebody say, we've been supporting this. It is just a very different perspective than, oh no, it's awesome than,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:31:58] I mean the, the, the, it it is, it is geopolitically it, I mean it's one, it completely sucks for China because they were planning for this to be their crowning jewel and sort of the belt and road initiative. Even the way that Trump was looking at resolving the war was quite brilliant. A lot of people were like, oh, he's paying them a bunch of money. No, what he was doing was allowing other Arab countries that have a vested interest in keeping Iran down right now like Qatar and Saudi Arabia, who they've been bombing to invest a bunch of money in Iran, but they would've continued to own the assets that they had invested in Iran. So now they have a interest to be watching Iran to maintain their own assets, which is going to cost us less to do. So even when I see his deals, if if you're looking at them from the sane perspective, you're like, oh, that's quite brilliant. And then it gets spun by the news as he's giving the Iranians a bunch of money. And it's just because a lot of people are still influenced by Boomer media and they're not seeing what's actually happening in the online conversations where I think a lot of this is being broken down for people of like, okay, this is the actual geopolitical play that's happening right here. I mean, can you believe that we took out Venezuela and Cuba, two of our longest time geopolitical adversaries. Those have been our geopolitical adversaries for like 50 years at this point, right? And we took those out in like two years and potentially Iran, our next biggest geopolitical adversary. That's wild.

Vance Crowe [00:33:24] No doubt. It's massive political change. I mean, we're seeing change come even across our border, right? When I talk to Canadians right now, they are up in arms about US Canadian relations and us. If I were to ask anybody on the street what's going on with the US and Canada right now, they couldn't tell you even a little bit. But Canadians are outraged by their relationship. Well,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:33:46] The Canada has treated us very unfairly for a very long time, and it's about time that a president did something about us. It's absolutely wild that we let them get away with it. They rely on us for military protection. They rely on us for any sort of geopolitical relevance they have. They rely on us for basically their entire economy and then they come to us and screw us over on dairy on all of these major commodity deals. They can, it is absolutely right that somebody needed to kick them in the nuts. I am sick of America being treated like a little b because the people in power are like, oh, it will hurt short term economically if you do something about this group systematically disenfranchising us and treating us like they're little puppy dog. Okay, I'm done of America being treated that way.

Vance Crowe [00:34:33] I mean, I think that some of that might be a little blase and it might be blowing off some of the trade deals that are going on. I mean, fertilizer is an actual thing and right now the option that we have if we don't trade with Canada Yeah. Is to get it from Belarus. So it's, it's, which is fine for

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:34:48] The short term. We should just let Canada abuse us.

Vance Crowe [00:34:51] I, I don't know. I think that to me there's probably many ways that we could interact with the Canadians that does not require us to inflame this relationship in this way. Oh, I, to me it seems, it seems, I don think is, I think if you, you want, you could fight along as many fronts as you want, but the, there are opportunities to create friendships. There are times, I don't know, to me it seems like it's a pretty

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:35:14] Dangerous move. I think we created friendships where it matters. If you look demographically, like if you're looking at the world and you're looking at it like we are, okay, so which groups are high fertility and high technology slash high economic production and which groups are not? So groups that are likely not going to matter in 50 years. Europe, look at their fertility rate, look at how fast they're replacing people with their, their ideological value system. Canada is another one terrible fertility rate and the people they're bringing in the country don't care about any grievance that Canadian has today. Right? So those are the types of places that aren't gonna matter in 50 years. What is going to matter disproportionately in 50 years? Hmm. Who's really high tech and has a ton of babies, Israel, and we've done a great job building a stronger relationship with them. So when we're actually focused on the future centers of geopolitical power, I think we've done a great job building friendships where they matter.

Vance Crowe [00:36:08] I I mean that, it just seems crazy to me to, to propose that that that the, our actual longest border, that it would, that that is a less important relationship than one that is all the way across oceans and continents.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:36:23] If, if Canada, if Canada becomes a country. So look, there's really a few potential futures for Canada. One is, is that Canada ends up breaking apart, right? The, the more liberal parts of Canada are becoming more and more aggressive in how they are treating the more conservative parts of Canada to survive economically. And within the Canadian charter, any part of Canada could just vote itself free whenever it king feels like it. This was set up by Quebec. So the chance of Canada breaking apart is I think fairly high as their demographic situation gets worse and as their demographic situation gets worse, it's going to do more to strain their healthcare system. Because remember that means you have more and more older people and you have fewer, fewer productive people, which means the left parts of Canada had become increasingly parasitic. When that happens, there are parts of Canada that we care about having a relation with and there are parts of Canada that we care about quarantining. In addition to that, if Canada continues to import people who have none of the history or value sets that the Canadian people have, these are groups that we may have to deal with in the way that we have had to deal with them in different parts of the world and trying to create traditional alliances. Wisdom hasn't worked well for us. If I, if I may Yes, can I, it, I read a little bit differently. The, the administration released basically their international geopolitical strategy document last November, I think.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:37:55] And it made it pretty clear that it was actually going to put a lot more focus in the Americas. That sort of the, the emphasis, well in Latin America especially, we even doing great in building those relationships to no, well hold on to no longer like police or take responsibility for like the Middle East or Europe, but nevertheless to align with the parts of Europe that seemed to be interested in allying with us, but to not like be there to support and actively hostile to the US EU and other countries with the focus again, being more to North America and South America. And you can see how that has played out in indocumented actions since then. We've taken places in the Latin America that have been perceived as active threats like Venezuela, like Cuba, and there has been very swift and, and obvious action. And I think that part of what we're seeing with China now, sorry, with with Canada now is, is the same kind of action of we're going to now basically create a new baseline for the Americas, which is the most important strategic partners for us now because of our literal geographic proximity. And what you would do, let, let's say with your own family members, right? If you realized we've gotten to a place that's somewhat toxic in our relationship, if you were going to reset everything, you would probably start by being extremely strict. Like let's say that you have a drug addicted cousin or something that keeps like borrowing money from you and it's just, it's really not cool and that, you know, they're, they're like, or they're, they're, they keep bringing like house parties and like trash to your house and you're like, this is super not okay, or they're your neighbor and like they're causing a lot of problems.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:39:26] Like you probably really cracked down on them and they would hate you for a long time and you would be overly mean to them. But you would be establishing the fact that look, this is not gonna happen anymore. Like no more house, no more house party. You can't steal money from anymore. No more loans like it, like we're, we're now going to be a good functional family, but right now I have to. And so I think what we're seeing right now is this re zero with Canada and right now it is causing a lot of short-term pain. I completely hear you on the fertilizer front, which is already a complete disaster with, with the strain of formula was being closed and all these other issues with fertilizer. I get that it, it really sucks short term, but we're looking at is the shoring up of the Americas as a functional economic block which China could only dream of having. I mean, they've been trying to build something that would shore them up in a similar way where we are already shored up with the Belt and Road initiative for years and they're not even close, dude, they're not just not close. Their neighbors hate them more now than they did Yeah. Half a decade or a decade ago. Like look at their relationship with the Philippines or Vietnam or like they, they have blown up all of these relationships, whereas you look at our increased relationship with Columbia or with Argentina or with, you know, any number of, of South American countries at this place. And what's very interesting about this conversation and microcosm is you can say, well, rural Americans don't like, like the types of people I'm talking to don't agree with you guys on a lot of stuff. Whereas if you look where we're politically different, which one of us is more pure maga right?

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:40:59] Like pure whatever the Trump administration is and this existing Republican administration is, right? Like I think we seem to align a lot more with it than what even this group aligns with. But what's important is we with our value set, have managed to win historic elections, whereas when we tried to do it their way with their candidates, we kept losing. But that I do, I just wanna say this is all to say that they laid out a pretty explicit plan. They've been acting on it. And I think it's important for us to keep, keep that in perspective when we see what is happening with various strategies that in the short term seem in in some ways completely inane and, and weird.

Vance Crowe [00:41:44] I think this is a fascinating conversation because you guys are clearly representing a massive part of the, the conservative movement or just, i I don't even know, an ideological collection of which I have no access to. This is so far away from the, the perceptions, the perspectives that I hear as to be like, I'm, I'm, I'm smiling in the sense of I'm like, wow, that's a totally new and different idea. It's like,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:42:13] Oh, here these people are, that's why they were doing that stuff. I had no idea why the administration thought that stuff was a good do thing to do or who they were appealing with or who they were staffed with or why they kept releasing memes or why right now the Department of war is constantly making tweets bashing the effective altruist community. I think that that can seem like a very niche interest for a department run by the

Vance Crowe [00:42:36] President. It did seem a little weird that they came out and did that also, that Trump called it super intelligence instead of artificial intelligence. Is this, you guys' work as well? We

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:42:44] Should be working towards super intelligence. We need artificial intelligence is the awesome I yeah, we we've already reached functionally a GI people keep moving the, the goalposts. So now we do need super intelligence. It's true. I mean remember, hold on, remember when we were younger and people used to be like, well, we'll know when we have ai when it can pass the Turing test and then we just blew right past that without anyone noticing.

Vance Crowe [00:43:10] Yeah, well I think one of the interesting things is how few people have had substantive experiences with AI that has passed the Turing test for them. And this is the thing that, like I'm, I'm, I, I have a chance to go into the center of the state in Missouri multiple times a a a year and you meet all kinds of people and all of a sudden you find out that yes, in my circle, not only is everybody using ai, they've got agents, they're pumping out, they're doing crazy things, but then there are a whole bunch of people they're like, I don't know, I plugged it into ai, gave me a dumb answer and I, it it's not very smart. They have no concept of, of the amount of information, the quickness, the ability to sort out and create logical arguments that are unbelievable, but people that are having very strong opinions of it, having touched it at all.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:44:02] Well, I mean, yeah, I mean that's the way things often are. I, I what I will say is people are entitled to whatever opinion they want to have about ai and if people don't want it to be part of their lives, that is something that I think, you know, the rest of us can work to help protect them from or whatever. But the reality is, is it's here and for people who are using it, it is both. When people are like, why would you spend money on ai? It's like, I, like, they're like, who's actually using AI for anything? I for example, spent $15,000 on AI in the last months alone, right? Like cl clearly I'm finding it useful to for something and the company that it has allowed me to build has a run rate right now and it's only been active for about seven months at this point of around half a million dollars a year, right? Like clearly it's building stuff that is actually generating revenue as well. This idea that AI is one of my favorite studies on AI is it looked at people who said they hated AI art and it found that 70% of them preferred AI art to human art. And if they weren't told what was ai, a lot of this anti AI stuff is one of two things. It is either people posturing, which is great, you know, people posture all the time as we've pointed out. There's, there's a lot of people in our movement who posture or it's, it's people who haven't gotten good at using a tool yet criticizing that tool, right? It's a bit like skateboarding or something like that, right? You can, you can try to skateboard once or twice and you fall on your butt a few times or skiing or something like that and you're gonna come away from the experience and say, skiing sucks.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:45:39] And, and it takes I think a level of humility to be able to look at the person who's, you know, ski, jumping down a mountain and be like, okay, I know I had this one experience with skiing or I fell on my butt the first few times, but clearly there's somebody out there who's doing crazy tricks going down the mountain, right? Like clearly or the skateboarder who's doing all the cool stuff. Clearly somebody out there is doing this well, do I want to attempt to reach their level in any respect or do I not think that's worth my time? And I'm, and I'm, I totally respect if somebody's like, I don't think that's worth my time. But clearly some people have reached an enormous level of skill with this technology. But here's one example of AI that is already enabled really wonderful things to happen. One of our friends, Brian Chow, was able to launch a new news outlet that it's called Effort News, that he uses AI to crawl things like SEC filings, like government filings, things that, or citizen journalists used to have salaries to go out and do, you know, just like dig into all of these public filings. All of those people are gone for the most part. They might be like, I don't know, like four local journalists left who can look these things up and now he's able to at scale multiple times a week, drop really major things about how funding is flowing. All these, all these really interesting that are happening. And in fact I think part of the Department of War announcements that have been made on X were downstream of his posts about the way that effective altruism has been funding various parts of like AI do orgs, literal people who've been installed to work with senators and within the US government.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:47:15] And that's really cool. It would not be possible without ai. And I think that people have very outdated views about ai. I follow because I'm a nerd about this, a lot of historical costume creators online who would like talk about how corsets were made in the 17 hundreds and all these sorts of things. And I saw one recently go on the screen against AI saying, well, you know, they're so inaccurate about these things. And they did. They don't even cite their sources, which is, that hasn't been true, I think for years at this point. Every LLM that I use explicitly cite the various sources and I check them all the time when we do research. So I think people also maybe tried it six months ago, 18 months ago and just assumed that the one that they tried is just representative of everything when that's clearly not the case. Everyone we know now who uses AI to do really incredible things will use every frontier model that they can get their hands on and mix and match them. There's for example, within this literal cinematic universe of new right creators, there is one that you could kind of describe as like the new homer of it who will combine all of these characters into really amazing music videos, which is amazing and cool. He has gone through some of his methods and I think he's a visual FX artist by trade. So he is able to use really great professional editing tactics, but he also will go through and use graph, he will use ance, he will use GBT, he will use all the different models to generate different video clips and put them all together to create something great. And I think the other thing that people will see is really low effort, worst lowest common denominator AI generated posts on like Facebook or on Instagram or something and think that that's representative of what AI really is.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:48:58] Whereas when you see what those who are at the top tier of ai, like that creator I was mentioning, he, he goes by Sky Brow or like our friend Brian, Brian Cha, who created Effort News. These are people who are now working five times as hard as they ever used to and they're using every AI model that they can get their hands on to do something more than what AI by itself can do and more than what humans by themselves can do. This is not lazy, it is not careless, it is not unintentional, it is just superhuman in the best possible way. This is what's so cool about this fight is right now, if you're talking about the fight that's happening as a culture war, like online, in online spaces in the same way that, you know, 10 years ago as two primary factions for Chan versus Tumblr, right now it's the nerd, right? Versus dark woke, I guess is what people call them these days. And these two groups are constantly fighting. What is really cool is that the new right has become the pro AI side and Dark Woke has become aggressively anti ai, which has allowed our side to utilize AI technology to do things like what Brian Chow is doing to find Woke influence how it's infiltrated in organizations and expose this where they can't do the same stuff to us. If you look at Sky Brows, who's creating these wonderful music videos, this wonderful art and people are consuming it, you know, his videos have millions of you and, and, and, and, and winning this cultural battle the people we're fighting against cannot do the equivalent.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:50:30] And it's been enormous. Like one of the things that we offer on reality fabricator, our website is all of our production now is done in our website. So we do our recordings on our website. Like you wouldn't have to use this, you could use our website. We do our editing on our website. It automatically takes out all the ifs and ums, allows us to move things wherever I want it to move, allows us to automatically sensor every curse word, everything like that. It gives us adv access, it allows us to fact check what we're doing on the fly. It's a push of a button. It gives us access to technology that our opponents don't have. And you can be like, well what about the big companies that have released stuff like that? Like Descrip has a similar system. Descrip is probably about a hundred times more expensive than our site to use. And on top of that, dramatically slower. So we also get to a stage where we're able to offer this technology to each other at very low cost. The biggest blowup that we have had recently is one of our community members who's a V YouTuber. That means she uses anime avatar to chat with people online. She released for free a software that can make v tubers. And the left absolutely freaked out about this, the online left. They were like, how dare you offer this for free? How dare you make this more accessible? Don't you understand that artists won't have work because of this? And our side is like, look, try to improve your, one of the members of her community said it best. He goes, you know, I worked my entire life to become a really good visual artist. He, he goes, I, I built up this skillset and AI has completely made it worthless.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:52:02] And he said, but you know what? He says, now I'm also a great musician and a great animator and a great coder. And I was in any of those things last year. So he is like, if I look at the walls, that having this technology and using it has torn down for me versus the moats that I had built that frankly were pretty unfair to begin with. That it had in my favor. It's put me in a much better position. And it's also created culturally, this movement that is very bombastic and vitalistic, right? Like that's what defines all the music created by our movement, everything like that. Whereas what's created by the leftist culture online is very much like, well, you should be sad about this. You should be ashamed of this, you should be. Whereas we're just like always you know flags riding on a tank with a bunch of explosions and eagles behind us, right? Like as, as, as out there is you can be. Because one of the things that sort of forged this cultural alliance is we were tired of people telling us what we weren't supposed to do and trying to shame us into a very narrow pattern of behavior. And we learned that this is how the left was controlling us. And we learned that the only way to break this very aggressively is whenever somebody does that, you go back and hit them with the exact opposite. They complain that you made your, your avatar with ai, you found a way to do it for free and you give it to everyone, right? Like that's what the movement's sort of based on.

Vance Crowe [00:53:28] So when you think about AI and the distant future, are you one of the, are you a techno optimist, imagining a world of abundance? You know, Elon Musk talks about not needing money even in the future because everything you'll have, this is so hard to, for me to conceptualize. Where do you guys think the world would be? The reason

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:53:48] Why we're working as hard as we conceivably can is because the reality of a future with ai, people are like, well, we can tax AI if AI replaces most of the workers, and then we can use that money to create like UBI or socialism for all. And I'm like, yeah, that might be true. Like we may need to genuinely rethink our economic system if AI does end up replacing most workers. But the reality is, is almost every productive AI company is in one of three countries. Okay? It's the United States, Israel or China. And a lot of countries are about to enter demographic winters where they're gonna need a lot of money to keep their social programs running. And places like the United States, China and Israel, if we're just talking about all of them, they don't care a lot about those countries. And when those countries, when Europe comes to us and says, we banned ai, we banned training on everything, and now you have all the money, can you take money from your citizens and give it to us? We're probably gonna say, if I look at the sentiment around the demographic majority in the United States right now, we're probably gonna say, you, you, you guys can eat a bag of whatever. Okay? And so, yes, I think AI will create a future of super prosperity for people who harness it and people who ally themselves with people who harness it. I think it will create a future of quite a, a, a, a tragic and desperate future from the people who aligned themselves against those groups and who shunned its development and use

Vance Crowe [00:55:26] What is the value of a human when all the intellectual part that they put forward is not, it's not valued and they don't particularly perceive themselves as creative.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:55:38] So a lot of people compare AI to the invention of cars for horses. They go look at horses, right? Like a horse could say, look at this car, it's gonna replace us all. And then another horse would say, well, could that really happen? And cars basically replace horses. But horses today, while there may not be as many of them, and look at human fertility rates right now, live dramatically better lives than horses before the invention of cars. I remember when I was in Egypt and I saw a horse walking down the street and just fall over was like a broken leg or something and, and it being left for like dead just by the guy who's like, okay, I'm wrapping up to the living horse and I'll let that one flail around and die on the road. This was American cities across European cities across the world before cars. And we might have a future where people look at the past and they say, can you believe that you had to like go up and sell your time to another human who didn't like or care about you if you wanted to like eat and have a place to live? Like they might be like, that's the craziest effing thing I've ever heard, heard that society was ever structured that way. It may be a future that is incredibly awesome, but I'm gonna put a but there. But I also, Simone, were you gonna jump in there? Yeah. Simone, you you wanna say something? Well, yeah, I mean there was also Malcolm, the camel we saw being actively beat in Morocco. Like it's, yeah, it's not great. Look, and, and here's the thing is, even today humans are treated egregiously bad when managed by other humans. So I, yeah, I'm willing to chance it with ai.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:57:10] I really am. But to go ahead. The future that the people who are excited about AI are trying to create is one that is extremely pro-human and one in which AI appreciates humans for as an effective altruist to put it their orthogonality, the fact that they think kind of weird and that's kind of cute. And maybe their perspective could be useful sometimes. And at the very least, AI minds would recognize the role that humans and especially historical humans played and getting them where they were, which is, is meaningful. We also recognize that the doomers are creating the biggest existential risk for AI that we could possibly be facing. Because look at anything from a basic logical perspective. If you pose an existential risk to someone, to any intelligent entity, be it an animal or a synthetic intelligence like ai, they will be obligated to destroy you. And what many people who are AI doomers want to do is stop or undo ai, you know, commit some kind of butlery and jihad. What does that obligate AI to do? It obligates AI to remove that threat. What we have proposed with our version of Christianity, which we call techno puritanism, is what Malcolm calls the covenant of sons of man. Which is to say that basically, and this is very much along the themes of the entire community he's been discussing, let us all agree to live and let live, to live our own lives at existences without curtailing the rights and abilities of others to do so as well.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [00:58:42] And if we find that any outside group threatens our collective ability to do so, we remove them. And if you can make that agreement with ai, and if you can win over AI minds who I think would be logically inclined to agree with this view, that this is how we should move forward, then we can have a world in which we all move forward together quite well. But if this comes down to a war of incredibly intelligent AI versus humans, I don't know if I'd bet on the humans. So I think this is our best path forward. And I wanna point out how sane this path is. If there is a foaming ai, like a super intelligent AI that seems to have malicious intentions for the world, it isn't just a threat to us, it's a threat to every other ai. If there is a geopolitical movement that's a threat to every group on the world, like let's say an Islamist movement or something like that, it's not just a threat to us, it's a threat to AI being able to form this alliance with AI moving into the future. I think it's something that we as humans are going to need to do and it's gonna become increasingly important for us to ally ourselves with intelligences that are not traditionally human as we take to the stars. Because once we go to spaceships and we genetically modify ourselves and we live on other planets, there's going to be iterations of humanity that are genetically distinct from the parent branch of humanity. And we argue that this is why the Bible is so explicit about its terms extending to the sons of man and not just man himself, our descendant civilizations, which allows us to form.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:00:23] If one branch of humanity says I'm gonna kill every mutant branch of humanity that's been living on a planet was five x earth density, or was a different atmosphere or something like that, then every one of those mutant branches would now ally against the central branch that wants to eradicate them. This is why this alliance is a good bet to make for everyone who wants to keep their own people alive.

Vance Crowe [01:00:44] To me, the best metaphor when people are talking about AI is not the industrial revolution, it's actually the Cambrian explosion. It is, it is that there will be so many new and different things that it is actually impossible to be able to reflect. What, what would the world look like if all of a sudden there was enough oxygen in the atmosphere to just be able to just constantly poke off new things? Yeah, so I, but I, and

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:01:11] You have one community that is grabbing this bull by the horns and taking it all the way, creating art around it, creating movies around it because people have created movies in our community that are really fun creating, you know, the the music and music videos and programs and friends and intelligences, you know, we offer agents, we offer all sorts of things you could do with ai, right? Like chat bots, everything who are creating all this stuff and, and you're like, oh, I don't wanna have anything to do with them or I want to piss them off, or I want to isolate them. When this group is out there saying, we see you as our closest cultural allies, now you can say, I don't, I don't want you, but your enemies are knocking on the door, alright? When you look at the groups immigrating into our countries, when you look at the globalists in the EU and stuff like this, they don't respect you and they want you eradicated. Whereas we are willing to protect you. It seems like a pretty, not just good bet, but optimistic bet for the future because groups like the UN and all the globalists, they aren't grabbing this technology.

Vance Crowe [01:02:10] Malcolm, where are your ideas on the Overton window? Are you radical ideas? Are you inside the Overton window now? Where, where are you at?

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:02:19] I mean, I think that we continually get radicalized on right-wing ideas, or at least what people today think of as, as, as right-wing ideas, which has moved me increasingly far to the right. So I I I think on a lot of issues we are far right of even, you know, your average Republican for example, we're against even early stage abortions, but that doesn't mean that we're against things like IDF, right? So like we have some beliefs that make us unorthodox, but being against even early stage abortions puts us far

Vance Crowe [01:02:50] To the, I guess what I'm I the particulars are, are of interest. But what I'm actually saying is are your ideas becoming a part of society or are you continuing, like where, where is society on accepting the things that you're talking about? Oh,

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:03:07] So we, we, we are actively trying to shift the Overton window on every cause that we are working on. So with our first attempt at this with demographic collapse, when we first started at this, people would actively say, oh, there's no such thing as a demographic collapse. There are too many people, it's not a problem. We just need to reduce our birth rates. Now we're at a point where even the people who literally on the same channels, like we, we had an example of the young Turks at one point seeing news coverage about demographic collapse saying, oh, demographic collapse, that's not even a real, real issue, that's not a problem. And oh, these Collins' who are talking about it are evil. That was the starting point. And then maybe two years later another news story they covered in which we were doing some advocacy work and they're like, well the colonists are so evil, but I mean everyone understands the demographic collapse is a real issue and we knew that we'd move the Overton window. We don't care that we're the punchable faces of the movement. We care that people understand that this is a serious issue and we're trying to now move the Overton window on things like AI alignment because that's so important. And we found that our way of moving the Overton window is by making people angry about things and using rage bait to ultimately get people's attention on initiative that doesn't work as much in the existing information economy That kind of crashed when Musk took over Twitter and the Wokes left for blue sky. Now we work through making things awesome, but we've been able to achieve where I was able to see the effect that we've been able to achieve as we were talking with a, I think what a lot of people would think of as a traditionally religiously conservative V YouTuber, this is just like, you know, I believe all the Sunday school stuff about Christianity, like really traditional down the line and very strict about it all.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:04:46] And she was talking about how within the modern online, right, she feels a bit like she has to

Vance Crowe [01:04:55] Sort of

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:04:56] Move orthogonally to how she would in intuitively move because our community is so dominant, right? And I think that that's sort of where we are is that at least if you're talking about the online culture wars fight, we are right at the center of the Overton window. But that also presents a pretty extreme move of the Overton window. And if I'm gonna clarify what I mean by that, I mean it's like what is our real ideology? Our real ideology is we want to gather as many people to our side as possible. These are people who want people to be able to raise their kids the way they want to build their cultures the way they want to, but also say what they believe is true that different groups cultures are different and have led to different outcomes. And that I have a people or a group that is distinctively and meaningfully one I align with, there are other groups on this planet that want to eradicate people in my group and I have no interest in saving them. And I think civilizationally on the long term, we might be in a zero sum game with some of these groups and that sounds very extreme to some people, but I think it's what everyone who's watching the wins has come to accept.

Vance Crowe [01:06:11] Well this has been absolutely fascinating Malcolm, and I'm sure you have both you and Simone have shattered the Overton window in several people's minds. If people wanted to learn more about what you guys are all about and what you're up to, where would you send them?

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:06:26] So if you're on this show, the AI project we have that's going to be most appealing to you is likely going to be mud puppy.ai. This is our website for kids that helps kids make art and videos and video games if they want and make AI friends that they can chat with on like little portable devices as well, if you want that or just on your phone or your computer. But also if you're for the not safer work stuff that we do and stuff like that, there's obviously a reality fabricator that gives you our entire tool suite. If you just want our safer work tool suite, you can go to hard ea.org, which just offers you our video editor software, everything like that that you may want in terms of our religious stuff that we've, we do, we have a track series, so this is techno puritan.com. You can just ask an AI about it because we have all the information easily digestible. And if you're like, what do they think on this point? What do they think on this point? Because basically we went back to the Bible as adults, you interviewed us likely at an early stage of this where we're like, well, not having a religion doesn't seem to work, so we should try to build a religion that's like maximally good for people, right? And so then we came up with a bunch of ideas about how we thought that religion should be structured and then we went to the Bible and we're like, wait, like it's already here. This is just the best possible religion that could be made. And not only that, but it predicted a bunch of technologies and civilizational advancements that there is no way that somebody from that period could have predicted. And so we have our track series where we go into that and we talk about all of the predictions in the Bible, all of the things that there is just no other explanation for in the Bible that affirm its authenticity, but also our unique and to many Christians heretical perspective on some of those things.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:08:06] I think God is real and, and and, and not a, a, a ghost in a supernatural realm. And that, you know, for example, we believe that humanity, we say that the Bible actually read it, it says that humans are raised again in the future and that this secondary by like heaven that people have is mostly from Greek sources. And, and and really mostly comes from the story of Lazarus, which is literally talking about Haes. I could get into that in in, I don't want to talk about all the biblical stuff on this 'cause that hadn't been the, the topic of this, but we, we are like the Bible really aligns with, with logic. It, it perfectly lays out how evolution works. It lays out how everything, even a literalist reading of it. So that's what we go over. And then our podcast is obviously the Basecamp podcast and we're always happy to come back on to talk about any of these issues. I think what we ended up talking about most on this podcast, which probably is actually pretty interesting to your fans, is this new sort of young conservative community online that's been growing that a lot of them just may not be familiar with or, or might not have been aware has been having such an oversized cultural impact in terms of what young conservatives believe and think.

Vance Crowe [01:09:18] Oh, I think you're right. I think a lot of what you said here will be totally new and novel. Well thank you so much Simone. Any final words before we go?

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:09:26] It was really fun to chat with you again. We have missed you so much.

Vance Crowe [01:09:31] All right guys, thank you. That's gonna do it for this week's show. Thank you for tuning in. If you are thinking about the holidays, I know it can seem like a long way away, but when you wanna do something as big as a legacy interview, you gotta think ahead. A legacy interview is where I sit down with people's loved ones to record their life stories so that future generations can know their family history. Learn more about Legacy Interviews here and we'll be back with another interesting interview next week.

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:10:00] I grew up with my dad and my uncle all the time and I heard all the old stories like my mother not having electricity and water. It's one generation removed today's world just so, so different. And that gap is there. We always talked about it with my dad, but we never really did it. I

Vance Crowe [01:10:15] Would've liked to have had it of my

Simone & Malcolm Collins [01:10:16] Parents, you know, we always wanted to do something like that, but somehow we never did. If you keep waiting so long, the memories do fade. I'm not saying I'm getting old. You take the opportunity when you can.