Canadian Podcaster on Trucker Convoy, Media Censorship, and Raising Kids in Modern Times

Shaun Newman [00:00:00] And in Canada, we want to force people into a box where you only get to talk about a subject from this point of view. And if you go outside of that, we're gonna monitor it and stifle it. And Canada's passing legislation that's gonna do that.

Vance Crowe [00:00:13] I'm Bruce,

Shaun Newman [00:00:14] A

Vance Crowe [00:00:14] Veterinarian, living in Sylvia, Kansas, and you're listening to the Vance Grow Podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Well, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see my disheveled hair and my, what do you even call this flannel shirt. That is because my dear friend Sean Newman flew in from Canada last night and we were up late drinking beer, talking about hockey, eating pizza, and knew that before we got on with our day today, that we should sit down and record a podcast interview. So you are in for a very interesting conversation with what I call a frontier man, a guy that is living in an outpost of Canada, having some of the most interesting and engaging conversations with controversial figures in the space of economics, what's going on in Canadian politics and even comedy. This conversation is a good one. We explore all types, sorts of subjects. And because I'm sitting with a fellow podcast host, I got to just sit back and relax and really talk about deep things. You'll notice we get into some areas where we talk about subjects that are a little uncomfortable, and several times throughout the podcast we say, Hey, if there's something we said that you don't agree with, make sure you reach out to us and let us know. Talk with us. That's the value of us putting out these ideas is because you are listening to them. And if they strike ideas or you come up with something you want us to hear, it's great. If you'll reach out and tell us, we're gonna go to the interview in just a moment. But if you want to get a legacy interview in before the holidays so that your family can watch it, go to Legacy Interviews dot com.

Vance Crowe [00:01:51] There you can sign up to have me interview your loved one to talk about their life stories, their childhood, their career, marriage, parenting, and the legacy that they wanna leave behind. I interview them right here in the studios, or if they can't get here, we can always do it over Zoom. So if you'd like to learn more, go to Legacy Interviews dot com. And now without further ado, let's have a conversation with my Canadian friend, Mr. Sean Newman. John Newman, welcome to the United States.

Shaun Newman [00:02:21] Is that how you started

Vance Crowe [00:02:22] Every single one? Yeah, because back in the day when I started, I used to have just one single camera and I was like recording my sound on this little box and you try and connect the sound to the video.

Shaun Newman [00:02:35] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:02:36] And so I needed a way to do that. So I, we used to pound on the table and that became like the, the system, right. You know, like it's hard to break habits, but I kinda like those Right. That's like a, the thump thump. It kinda gets me in this,

Shaun Newman [00:02:47] Yeah, it starts it off

Vance Crowe [00:02:48] Podcast. Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:02:49] I dunno, I I listen to ac DC so

Vance Crowe [00:02:52] Before your podcast.

Shaun Newman [00:02:53] Yeah. It's a old hockey habit, right? Like before a big game you have pump up music

Vance Crowe [00:03:00] And

Shaun Newman [00:03:00] Some people like to get real calm. I remember Braden Holt be talking, I mean goalie who won the Stanley Cup with the Washington Capitals talking about how he needed like to calm down before a game. I'm the opposite. I love to ramp up and you'd think for a conversation you'd do anything but try and ramp yourself up. Except it's like, old habits die hard. So I listened to AC CDC for those about to rock. We isolate you. I think that's how it goes.

Vance Crowe [00:03:22] So that's like interesting because is that your goal is to be electrified in this, in the conversations you're having with your guests? I mean, do you wanna be like, let's go?

Shaun Newman [00:03:32] No, but it gets my mind to like, we're going, it's time to perform, it's time to engage. It's time to zone in on what they're gonna say because listening to somebody for an hour and a half people might be like, oh, if it's interesting, it's so easy. But to quiet your brain down to actually focus is difficult. So by having a routine of playing a song that gets me going and gets me in the mood to do what I'm doing to perform in my, you know, no, it's not about getting up, it's about getting the brain on the right track of this is okay, it's time to go.

Vance Crowe [00:04:05] You know what, when you're talking about getting ready for the moment, one of the reasons is you have an experience that's not everybody has had, which is you're about to go play a sporting event that you really care about and there are a ton of fans out there and they want you to perform and your teammates are all excited. And it's more than just that middle school basketball game where mom and dad are in the stands. This is like people cheering, banging on glass, you've gotta deliver. I don't think most people know what the moments before something like that is. Even like,

Shaun Newman [00:04:35] Oh, I guess I just take it for granted, right? Like, I grew up in a culture of, of team sports. I got to play at the, for the most part the highest levels. And that's just what it is. Like, I mean, for

Vance Crowe [00:04:49] The most part, the high, I gotta call you out because I was telling all these people my, we were dropping my daughter off at her school today and she had told everyone that a hockey player was coming to visit her and they were like, oh, Vance hockey player. I'm like, oh, NHL.

Shaun Newman [00:05:00] Yeah, Vance. Vance n Hhl. He's six foot eight. He's larger than life.

Vance Crowe [00:05:05] He's

Shaun Newman [00:05:05] Missing his teeth.

Vance Crowe [00:05:06] Sean

Shaun Newman [00:05:06] Shows up five foot seven teeth all in, can't even pull him out anymore.

Vance Crowe [00:05:10] Yeah. And played in Finland or

Shaun Newman [00:05:12] Something. Yeah, domesticated. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:05:14] So when you play, when you say I played at the highest levels, for somebody that doesn't know anything at all about hockey, what does that mean?

Shaun Newman [00:05:21] Well, so I, I played at the highest levels all the way till at a high school, right? So you have, you know, like it's all tiered, right? So if you played any sport, even I assume like baseball, you have like tier one or double A or whatever they're gonna call it. Yeah. Traveling team, traveling team, whatever. I played on those teams until high school. And then when you're in that age group, the highest level in Canada is the WHL Western Hockey League. That's called tier one or Yeah, tier one I believe. And then right underneath that is junior A. So after high school I played always a step below the top. I'm a small guy, you, you get to see it here firsthand. So everywhere I went, although I was a good hockey player, they said, you're too small. I got cut from so many teams saying You're too small, you're too small. If you're four inches taller, hey, I don't know how many times I gotta tell you Vance, where I just wanted to swat the coach and be like, if I'm good enough, let me play. And let's see. So I played junior A, so it was a tier below. And then in college, instead of division one, which I think all your listeners in the states would understand, I played division three, which in hockey there's division one, division two, division three, but division two is more club hockey. So division one and division three are the two divisions where all the best go to, for the most part. I, I don't wanna say that's true across the board, but division three is recognized as like really, really good hockey and a lot of junior A players go graduate from there and move into division three.

Shaun Newman [00:06:53] So that's where I played. And then I went over to Finland and signed my only pro contract where, you know, like I I say like I, you know, I laugh when people think I, I played in the NHLI didn't, and I don't even want to conflate it, but I did sign a contract, I did get paid to play, I did get to go see a different country and experience all that head dog

Vance Crowe [00:07:12] And people are buying tickets Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:07:14] To

Vance Crowe [00:07:14] Come to this game because they wanna be entertained by watching a, a sporting event where people know what they're doing.

Shaun Newman [00:07:20] Yeah. But I mean, you can go back in Canada to like high school hockey and people will pay to go see that certainly more in the playoffs in times like that. But like, I mean junior a all through junior a, they had to pay to come see us play. And I dunno, that's just part of the hockey culture.

Vance Crowe [00:07:39] I didn't even really understand anything about this like moment before a sporting event until I got married. And really I didn't understand it until after my wife and I had been married for years way after. I know I never saw her swim competitively,

Shaun Newman [00:07:53] But

Vance Crowe [00:07:53] She would talk about like, you got a big race that, you know, everybody is hanging on. How fast are you swimming through the water? You've got this adrenaline as like a mediocre athlete. I never experienced that. Like nobody was ever like, oh man, dance has just gotten into the water. Onto the ice.

Shaun Newman [00:08:09] I should have brought you the smelling salts. Yeah. They pass around smelling salts before hockey games. Right. Because you you'll watch any player

Vance Crowe [00:08:18] Players. I've seen people do this. Yeah. But it really does like jolt you.

Shaun Newman [00:08:21] Well. Well I tell you what I'll bri then when you're down in Canada, when you come up to Canada, I'll have it in the studio. I'm gonna add it into one of the things I do before a podcast. 'cause I think it's awesome. It's just part of the culture of hockey.

Vance Crowe [00:08:33] And so for me, the understanding what it's like to be ready before a moment didn't come until I started speaking and I started having audiences of like, you know, first, you know, 50 people and then a hundred and then 500 and then a thousand and you're standing off on the wings and you've been thinking about what you're gonna say for the whole plane ride. But now you're about to go on stage and you've gotta handle the fact that you've got this adrenaline going on because if you don't slow your heart rate down or get in pace with it, right? It's either calm yourself way down or amp yourself up enough to be able to handle this. I didn't understand what you're describing was something that would've been relatively well you're

Shaun Newman [00:09:12] Performing again. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:09:13] Exactly. But I'd never done that when I was younger. You did it as a young person. I didn't do it until I was 30 years old.

Shaun Newman [00:09:20] Well, I I, I said the last time in Calgary, or when I was in Calgary and was on stage about a month ago, to me it was like an epiphany of like, my stage used to be the ice surface, right? And you understand, and, and you know, you get all these nerves exactly what you're talking about and you get through the first shift and they kind of abate and you're, you're, you're good to go for the rest of the game. That's changed into the, the stage now because I've been hosting different shows here and the same nerves happen and I joke about before the podcast, I get the same nerves before anytime I step in front of a camera and I enjoy that feeling. I didn't, I never thought I'd get that feeling again. It always came from hockey. And what you're talking about is, is performing you, you're, you know, you're putting put on the spot and you have to perform. And for, for people listening, they don't tune into Vance because he's got, I just kinda like whatever and he mumbles and whatever. It's 'cause you get on and you talk about interesting things and people wanna hear that. They wanna have their, you know,

Vance Crowe [00:10:21] And just like in a sporting event, if you can come out and be in, in pace with your adrenaline, right? If everything's hooked up, you get to go score a goal real fast. You get to go, you know, really knock somebody down on their ass right out of the gate. Same thing with performing. If you can match your adrenaline with your heart rate, with your nervousness, and you can start that opening story and the glory of getting that first laugh, right? Like you, you, you're talking, you maybe have been talking for 15, 30 seconds, but if you get that first laugh, you're like, got 'em now let's go, let's take this somewhere.

Shaun Newman [00:10:55] See, and I like, I I was saying you, I just did the comedy show, right? I'm not a comedian, I'm a guy that likes to see people lean in. I love to see that they're actually engaging with what I'm saying because if they're distracted, if they're talking, if they're on their phones or something, obviously I'm not doing my job, right?

Vance Crowe [00:11:12] Yeah, that's right.

Shaun Newman [00:11:12] Like, and so where I sit, I, I dunno, maybe someday I'll be the, the keynote speaker of, of not one of my shows, but of whatever. But right now I'm just the, the mc, the host and I guide people through an experience. And so for me performing is making sure that their experience is well worth the ticket they paid for. And I gauge that off of certainly this last time laughter was one, but engagement, which is seeing body language play out in a crowd.

Vance Crowe [00:11:40] Well you are in a, so you just did the Sean Newman presents where you brought in longtime podcast guest Quick Dick Mc dick and then twos. Yes.

Shaun Newman [00:11:49] Which

Vance Crowe [00:11:49] I don't know that my audience would know who he is, but I actually have become buddies with him in my own mind. 'cause you guys have a weekly show that you do.

Shaun Newman [00:11:56] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:11:57] And I was telling you, I don't really give a shit about Canadian news that you guys are talking about. I just like that you get on with this guy once a week and wrap on about like, oh, can you believe that Canadians are doing this and blah, blah blah. But you got these two guys together and got people to pay for tickets. Hundreds of people came to your event and you put on a comedy show.

Shaun Newman [00:12:19] I don't know, I I, to me none of that seems like that earth shattering.

Vance Crowe [00:12:23] Oh, that's nuts, man. That takes real balls because

Shaun Newman [00:12:25] You could

Vance Crowe [00:12:26] Have been like, because you could have been like, Hey man, everybody come to my show and nobody shows up or four people buy tickets and then you gotta be like, Hey guys wanna do a comedy show for four people? But that wasn't what happened. You risked, you know, some amount of embarrassment you brought your friends in that you think are funny. But you know, can they deliver when they're on stage? Like you took some gambles there.

Shaun Newman [00:12:49] I guess I just, I don't know. I I can't figure out if I'm naive or what I just, I, I mean certainly I felt the pressure, but I think in no matter what you start the first time you start it, that's the risk you run across the board. It doesn't matter if you're putting on a whatever show or a, you know, you're having a meal for whatever. Like, I, I mean, I'm being very broad there. It doesn't matter what you start, start podcast, right? People are so afraid just to try something because of what other people will think. And certainly I want a full house and certainly I want it to be packed. I want it to be fun. I want it to be the talk of the town and everything else. But sometimes just getting an idea outta your head is the best thing to do. Because I had an idea, I wanted to see if it played out. I wanted to see if it worked and it worked. And I'm like, oh, that worked.

Vance Crowe [00:13:33] So what was what? So you're, you're standing up there, people have had a dinner, now you're introducing quick Dick Mc dick. Yeah. Did he, did he tell you, Hey, I'm gonna do this and this and this, and what do you think? Or how do, how do you guys arrange this? They

Shaun Newman [00:13:44] Made fun of me because I'm the ti they call me the time cop because I told quick dick, you know, he normally goes on for an hour and a half and I say, you got 45 minutes and don't like, I'll let you. And he is like, okay, right. And he's kinda laughing. I'm like, no, like I don't like to waste people's time.

Vance Crowe [00:13:59] I'm gonna hook you. Are you, is it like that?

Shaun Newman [00:14:01] I, I mean it wasn't that

Vance Crowe [00:14:03] I'd have to you, but you'd have to handle it and you were telling him I will handle it.

Shaun Newman [00:14:06] Yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna have, like, there's probably in an audience of, we had 200 and change people there in that audience. There's probably 10 people that you could talk till four in the morning and they would not move. But for most people, they gotta pee. They got attention spans, they're hungry, they want to drink, they

Vance Crowe [00:14:24] Drunk, they get taken with their kids, right?

Shaun Newman [00:14:25] A hundred. And and so you gotta be respectful of, of their time. And I'm no different. I come to somebody's show, I want them to stick to a schedule. You build me a schedule stick to it. I'm not saying you gotta be on the minute every time, but understand that my time is valuable. And so yeah, they, they made fun of me as being the time cop except one of the, you know, when I asked for feedback after the show, lots of people appreciate that because I don't know how many things I've gone to over the past like five years where it's supposed to be an hour show or an hour talk and it turns into an hour and 40 minutes and you're like, oh my god. You know, I grew up going to church and the church we went to, it was supposed to be, I don't know, an hour and 20 minutes and it, and it would go ban anywhere between an hour and 20 minutes to three hours. That unknowing is like, has been driven into me. I can't do that anymore.

Vance Crowe [00:15:16] Oh, I'm in total agreement. In fact. So I gave a talk just last night right before you showed up at my, my house and I was preparing for it and I always tested out with my wife and she was like, oh, you should add that in. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. We are about cutting things out. I wanna end five minutes before people think I should end.

Shaun Newman [00:15:35] Yes. Because

Vance Crowe [00:15:35] It is way, way, way better than end five minutes after people think you should end. And you know, if you talk about 10 or 20 minutes after, you know, you might as well take all that goodwill that you

Shaun Newman [00:15:46] And throw it out the door.

Vance Crowe [00:15:47] Yeah. Light it on fire. Right? Like, because I hate the guy that does it to me, that makes me sit there because of my social good graces that I'm not going to embarrass him by standing up and walking out because I need to go to the bathroom or, because I am just not interested.

Shaun Newman [00:16:00] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:16:01] So I hate that guy and I never want to be him.

Shaun Newman [00:16:03] Well, I mean, so to me that's like really important. The other thing is, is I don't do a hot mic either, right? So you, you've been to events where they take questions from the crowd, right? Oh yeah. You walk around, you give a mic to, I dunno, Trish and, and Trish tells a 15 minute story, oh,

Vance Crowe [00:16:21] This must be a Canadian thing. I would never hand that microphone.

Shaun Newman [00:16:25] Well, I, Jordan Peterson, first event I ever went to and watched him well before he was, he was on his rise, but he wasn't, they did a hot mic. And I was like, well, bravo to you because you're taking away from what I'm here for the person who paid to come to the show. And that is to hear you speak. And there are more creative ways to facilitate getting you to speak more with questions from the audience than giving out a hot mic.

Vance Crowe [00:16:49] Yes, I agree with that a hundred percent. In fact, when I would go to, to do these like hostile audiences, right? You're talking about people that hate Monsanto and you've just given a talk and you've maybe won over 90% of the crowd, but there's still 10% that love to see you light up on fire. When I asked for questions, I would do the Ben Shapiro move where I'd say, if, if you wanna have a question and you don't agree with what I've been saying up here, go to the front of the line, right? And then we would have a, a dialogue. But I tried very hard not to do it as a microphone thing. Sometimes the, the, the coordinators of the event would have a microphone for other people. But it's because those,

Shaun Newman [00:17:28] How was that, how was that experience having somebody in a live event try and call you like

Vance Crowe [00:17:33] A drug, like a, like a drug? You

Shaun Newman [00:17:35] Enjoyed that? Oh,

Vance Crowe [00:17:36] Because, because I somehow in this situation became a, a spokesperson for the most hated company that people could imagine. And, and when someone would come up to the microphone and they would ask a hostile question if they were right about what they were bringing up, I wanted to know that, right? If they knew something about GMOs or about pesticides or about whatever that was negative that they could show me, then I would love to be like, I didn't know these, are these assholes really doing this? Is this a terrible thing that they're I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me that. So, because I wasn't sitting there being like, I have to defend my mothership, Monsanto, it, it made it so we were actually in a dialogue. And if what they did was they stood up there and they said something crazy, right? Something like, you know, your GMOs are getting out into the wild population and this is causing this and this and this. Then I can work with them to explore, how did you come to these ideas? What are you concerned about? What do you, and get them to actually think in front of this crowd and not embarrass them. Give them a chance to walk away feeling like they learned something. And if you can do that, you've built a bond not just with the, the the person that you're talking with, but the entire audience. And, and that facilitates a discussion that you can't have any other way. Because very rarely in our lives, maybe a few times at work, you know, you really dust up with somebody. Do we really get into head-to-head, face-to-face conflict?

Vance Crowe [00:19:08] And most people, when they get into that face-to-face conflict, they want to get out of it, right? They're like looking for a way to move around it. But the real thing that is valuable is in the sparks that happened because of that. And I was getting an opportunity over and over and over again to see those sparks and to learn what do I know? What do they know? How can I make this work? It was, it was like taking a drug fully en en embrace, engaging everything my entire mind.

Shaun Newman [00:19:38] Those experiences are uncomfortable. That's why, I mean, you wanna move past it. You wanna be around people that agree with you because then, you know, but in saying that you learn a lot about yourself when you put yourself in situations where your ideas are challenged

Vance Crowe [00:19:56] And we were talking about your, your presentation and you're putting somebody else up on the stage, right? You're putting quick dick up there. What is it like to hand the mic over and be like, go ahead, do your thing. And how did he do?

Shaun Newman [00:20:10] I thought both guys did really good. It was the first time 222 minutes or twos had been, had ever done stand.

Vance Crowe [00:20:15] Yeah, I saw a photograph of his face show up on social media

Shaun Newman [00:20:18] First time for that first time he'd ever done standup in front of, well before he, at first time he'd ever done it. And so I thought, quick Dick is almost a professional. Oh, he is a professional now, right? He tours around doing comedy and although he's jokes about bombing, he's really good. He's very charismatic and you know, he is a likable character, if you would. And

Vance Crowe [00:20:44] Isn't he playing like multiple characters on the stage? Like, didn't you tell me that he

Shaun Newman [00:20:48] Like Yeah, well he, he, he has a, I don't wanna give away too much, but he, he has a, a a bit or whatever where he talks to his, his younger self from like the nineties or something, you know, and tells him we're gonna get famous being quick off, quick, Dick mc dick. And he goes back and forth. It's just like, it's really easy

Vance Crowe [00:21:03] To

Shaun Newman [00:21:03] Fall along with it and it's hilarious. Right? So like handing off the mic, we were talk, you know, when it comes to Sean Newman podcast or Sean Newman presents, I'm entrusting my self of interactions with people across the podcast that they can represent what I believe. Well and so quick, Dick twos are two guys that I've brushed shoulders with, you know, through the podcast that I really respect. You're another one, right? So it's like, I trust when I hand the mic over, they're not gonna do something silly that, you know, all of a sudden smears Sean with a, with a, you know, a blemish or whatever, you know. And so it, it was, it was awesome. It was easy, it was easy to hand the mic over to quick Dick. I've literally watched the guy now for what, three years. And a lot of his thoughts are my thoughts. He just has a different way of articulating them. And so to have those two guys, no, it was easy. Like I, I got to sit back and, and enjoy the audience. For me it was less about what quick Dick was saying and more about how the audience reacted to quick Dick. 'cause that's what I created. I didn't create what cre

Vance Crowe [00:22:16] His bits you were creating. Hey, I brought the people together, I

Shaun Newman [00:22:18] Facilitated. I

Vance Crowe [00:22:19] Think that's something I'm realizing about you. That's like your superpower that I, I don't know that I can actually name it, but you are extraordinarily good at bringing people together and, and in particular when they don't really know why they're coming together, but they feel like they wanna be a part of the thing that, that is created by you.

Shaun Newman [00:22:40] I appreciate that. I, I, I don't know, I, I see things that matter to me. And certainly when I started the podcast, I quickly like realized, man, I really like this. But if that's the Sunday or the, you know, the ice cream cone, the cherry on top is doing the live events, like putting together something where speakers are willing to come and do it for me and then people are willing to pay for it, is like in my wildest dreams, I'd never thought that I'd be able to facilitate that and actually create something that, you know, people enjoy. I love being, I'm not that, you know, I look around your studio, I'm not that detail orientated on, on certain things, but when it comes to that show, I'm anal and I, I, I, I, and I'll give you, I'll give you some idea. So we're setting it up first time we did it in March and I probably spent an hour on stage placing chairs in what I thought where I wanted to be. And then I sat in each chair and talked out of each chair. I made sure there wasn't weird sounds. I made sure sight lines made sense. I made sure when I sat and then I got a group of people to go sit in them so I could see it from the, from the crowd. And to me, all that really matters because you're creating an experience and the experience needs to have a feel, a look. And every single detail really, really, really matters. Because if too many little details go wrong in a show, that's what sticks out and that's what ruins the entire experience. And so normally I don't, I don't, you know, like let's just take a chord running along the floor.

Shaun Newman [00:24:15] It's like Whoopi do. But in that, it really matters to me because the audience gets to see everything, it get to see the entire, it sounds to

Vance Crowe [00:24:24] Me like that's empathy. Like, it, it sounds to me like that's you being able to place your mind in or somebody else's perspective in your own mind and inhabit it. And it's not like you, you feel bad for 'em or anything. You're like, Hey, how will this feel? And not only for the person sitting in the chair, but you're also mental modeling what the person in the audience is going to experience by the way that person in the chair is sitting. And the only way you can do that is if you're able to map

Shaun Newman [00:24:55] Your

Vance Crowe [00:24:55] Consciousness onto what other people are conscious of. I

Shaun Newman [00:24:59] Don't know if I've ever thought of it that way. I've always put it in the scope of I need the performer to walk in quick. Dick walked in and went, holy crap. He, he's a guy who performs in all these small towns and nothing against small towns, but it's hall, after hall, after hall. Maybe they got a stage, maybe they don't, you know, it's, it's whatever tablecloths thrown on. And I'm, I'm making a mockery of small towns. I come from a small town, I understand that a hall is a hall is a hall. I want to give a feel. A big city. Like, wow, this is upscale that people can still pay for. And a performer doesn't get all the time. Right? A quick dick doesn't get invited to I, what's the big theater in St. Louis?

Vance Crowe [00:25:42] Oh, he will, he will, sure. The Fox Theater. Yeah,

Shaun Newman [00:25:45] Sure. Some people, someday he will graduate to that level. Maybe he's already graduated to that level. I want to give every performer the opportunity to feel like they've graduated to that level. And so for the performer, they leave going, wow, that was like, I'd gladly do that again. And to the audience, they get to walk in and be treated like they're at that theater when in fact they're just at a small venue in Lloydminster or wherever, hopefully the next ones go. And the attention to detail, the, the, the feel of like, this is kind of grand. And they become my best salespeople because they leave going, wow, that was something, the people that didn't come to the first s and p presents, some of the things I heard was like, oh, I'll definitely, I didn't realize that's what it was gonna be. I like, I I wasn't sure I didn't, you know, and it was the first one and I understand. So I had to like knock it out of the park, so to speak. And I did, it sold out. It was a like, and I created something that I hoped people would leave and spread the good word. And I saw that in the second one because people who bought tickets to the first one bought tickets to the second one.

Vance Crowe [00:26:48] Oh man. I mean, that's when you're in the territory. Have you ever heard of a, a guy named Kevin Kelly who started Wired magazine. He has a paper that's worth looking up called the Thousand True Fans. And he's like, look, everybody's focused on scale and you know, getting really big. But really if you have a thousand fans that will, that trust you enough because you've built up this relationship that if you put something out, they're willing to plunk down a hundred dollars, a thousand times a hundred, you can live on that. Right? And that's a, that's the, the, it only happens when instead of focusing on like, I want to go out and get as many as I can, you focus on like, I'm gonna deliver for these people. And as long as I deliver for those people, then our relationship works commercially.

Shaun Newman [00:27:34] Yeah. I really like that, Todd. I

Vance Crowe [00:27:38] It's worth reading the whole paper because I'm just giving you the very high level. Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:27:41] And he

Vance Crowe [00:27:42] Basically describes, you know, the, our ideas about what a business should be have been changed in some way that's not wrong. But it often leaves aside the craftsman, the person that, like everybody

Shaun Newman [00:27:54] Wants to have millions of views. And I, I ask you Vance, what does a million views do?

Vance Crowe [00:27:59] I I don't actually wanna have, I mean, if it happened there, there'd be benefits. But we talked about this before. I wanna be niche famous. I want the people that I wanna be talking to, to be the people I'm talking to, the, the guy listening to this podcast right now. I want him to know that if he sees me somewhere or he has a thought and he wants to drop into my dms, that he can do that. But I don't wanna walk down the street and have people

Shaun Newman [00:28:22] You don't wanna be Matthew McConaughey.

Vance Crowe [00:28:23] Yeah, I I, yeah, it's exactly right. I have no interest in that, but I want my people, the people that are listening to us right now to be like, yo Vance, I saw this thing, or I read this book, or I, that's what I want. So a million views, the only thing that that gets me is a deeper gravity. Well, to find the person that was washing dishes while I was talking with Sean Newman and, and realize like, oh man, I remember what it was like before a big game and let me tell Vance about that. That's what I want. And I

Shaun Newman [00:28:50] Want voice famous. So, you know, like you got the cameras and everything set up and I'm like, at times I'm like, I don't really care. I don't know. I don't care if people see who I am. One of the best

Vance Crowe [00:29:01] Part of that's 'cause you're not very good looking.

Shaun Newman [00:29:06] Well, I beg to differ, but hey, that's, that's me. That one of the coolest stories I got as I was walking through the casino in Lloyd, and I mean, it's my hometown, fair enough. But it was like one in the morning I was there, this was before I quit my, my previous job. And I was just talking to the customer, like, you know, like this. And a woman looked up, no idea who she was. She goes, who? Sean Newman? I'm like, yeah. She's like, oh, I don't recognize you, but that voice can. And I was like, oh, that's, I mean, that's a high compliment, right? Like,

Vance Crowe [00:29:35] I like that

Shaun Newman [00:29:36] To me. I'm with you. I don't, I don't, I don't wanna have to worry about going to the grocery store and being mauled, right? Like Chris Barber, I just had him back on. He was the leader of the Freedom Convoy that went to Ottawa, one of the leaders I should say. And he was

Vance Crowe [00:29:52] The terrorists that were doing horrible things in Ottawa. That's

Shaun Newman [00:29:55] Right. Yeah. I

Vance Crowe [00:29:55] Don't want to get kicked off YouTube like you did. You had that guy on YouTube and got kicked off.

Shaun Newman [00:30:00] It's true. And he talks about him and his wife going out right now to like restaurants and things like that. And there's not an occasion where he doesn't have to stop and take pictures with people. 'cause they all recognize him. And that's, you know, Chris Barber, you're, your audience can be like, who? And it's like, well, if you're in that world, he is a superstar and he is this humble giant of man, you want a giant of a man in your studio. He walks in and he looks like Paul Bunyan, like he's just this big man and just gentle, super kind, thoughtful. But he talks about his wife being like, you know, is life ever gonna go back to normal where we can just go up for a meal, a date night and not have to be worried about signing autographs and taking pictures with random strangers and whatever else. And I'm like, I agree with you. I don't want that.

Vance Crowe [00:30:44] Well, your your thing about being voice famous, I like that term. That's a good, good term because one of the things I learned by being in radio is that it is way, way more personal that people hear your voice than they see you. Because when you're right now, like somebody's got earphones in or they're driving down the road and it's just speaking,

Shaun Newman [00:31:05] Speaking into your brain,

Vance Crowe [00:31:06] Yeah. You're talking to your like whispering right into their ear, right? And there's very few times, the only time somebody you can hear somebody is if you're close enough to be able to do this. And, and the experience of listening to you and, and twos on there, right? I'm driving down my car, but in my imagination, we're all three sitting there, we're all homies, right? Is

Shaun Newman [00:31:25] It, that's

Vance Crowe [00:31:26] Even as much as I argue with twos and I'm like, what? Oh, he's such a blow hard, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm still like, but what's he gonna say next? Oh, is he gonna give Sean some shit about it? You know what, you

Shaun Newman [00:31:34] Know what, you know what joke he opens up with at, at the, I'm not gonna say anything offensive, so let's talk about trans people.

Vance Crowe [00:31:40] And you could like, oh man.

Shaun Newman [00:31:43] Right? Like, and if you know who Tus is, I mean, like, it just fits his personality. But but

Vance Crowe [00:31:47] That, that voice, right? The thing that I have, I hadn't seen a photo of him and I hadn't seen quick, quick Dick without his beard Yeah. Until he did that contest. And in fact I was like, oh, I wish I hadn't seen it. Right? He looks like a turtle. But, but like, I had built a relationship with that voice and that voice I have a relationship with. And as soon as you put imagery to it, right, all of a sudden that relationship changes doesn't necessarily get any, any better or worse. Better. Yeah. It's just, it changes. And so your voice famous thing I agree with, it's, it's,

Shaun Newman [00:32:19] Well, one of the other things I do, Vance and I don't, I I, I don't know how everybody interacts with their audience, but I have my phone number on every single episode I do, which people think I'm insane for. 'cause they're like, you know, bots or, you know, or, or hate mail or whatever. And, and to me it's been a, an eye into my audience, another connection, a way to interact with me that, you know, to listen to one person but then to share your thoughts with me. And actually, like, it's probably one of the smartest things I've ever done, is allowed people, if they enjoy the show or hate the show to let me have it. And that gives me an eye into what they're thinking, what they enjoyed, adv an episode, maybe what they hated Advent episode. Maybe they hate me and that's fine. And that ability, I I,

Vance Crowe [00:33:06] I do that through Twitter dms, through Facebook. But I would be reluctant on the phone because have you had anybody that actually hates you that, that spends part of their day trying to harm you, trying to harm your family?

Shaun Newman [00:33:23] I can safely say not. And everybody warns me about that. And I'm a firm believer in the good of humanity. And that may be naive and there may be somebody down the road who will wanna do just that. But the way I conduct myself, I'm not worried about it.

Vance Crowe [00:33:43] Oh, but it's a real thing.

Shaun Newman [00:33:44] I know, it's

Vance Crowe [00:33:45] So fortunately I have a wife that like, very supportive and I've been able to build up a thing where there's no such thing as firing me. Like you, I mean, you can fire me from one single client or one single thing, but like, I'm, I'm unhirable but I had a person, multiple people, but one in particular went out and wrote articles in Slate Magazine and put out articles about how horrible I am.

Shaun Newman [00:34:09] I guess I just come, I come back to, I'm not hiding from anyone. I literally have my name on the show. I'm literally open on any dms. I don't try and hide from Twitter, Facebook, whatever. So to add one more thing in there with my email and everything else is like, I'm pretty open no matter which way you want to go about it.

Vance Crowe [00:34:25] I think that my

Shaun Newman [00:34:26] Point, the day, the day that I graduate into this realm where I need to put some stop gaps in to, you know, like, to get, you know, there's certain famous people out there. Let's take Matt McConaughey, I'm sure he is, got eight rings around him where you gotta pick a lock and then, oh, there's the next one. You gotta pick that lock because he needs that in order to function. You have a little sanity. I'm just not there.

Vance Crowe [00:34:46] I have a good friend that she's been on the podcast before. I'd love to have her on again sometime named Julie Kelly. And somehow along our path, when Julie Kelly and I were running around doing stuff in biotech, somehow we pissed some dude off, right? Some scientist dude. And he started threatening us to the extent where he published my address and, and tried to tell, he was trying to like rile people up that, you know, this, that guy banned what was baseball to this day. I, I think he was like slightly a deranged guy. I, I don't, I don't really understand. And like the more I looked into like why is he upset, the more I was like, there's a darkness here that I don't, that I'm not. And and when somebody starts doing that and you're like, I don't know if I'm going, like I, I actually had to be escorted because of the, the police home from work by a police officer. And like, when that happens, you're like, okay, we're playing with real, real bullets here.

Shaun Newman [00:35:45] So when I hear you say all that, I'm like, that's why I'm probably naive. I haven't graduated into that experience maybe.

Vance Crowe [00:35:54] Or maybe Canadians are just super nice and you don't have to,

Shaun Newman [00:35:56] Or maybe I live in as you joke and outpost and I'm like, you wanna come all the way up to little old Lloydminster and come to my doorstep around round bite.

Vance Crowe [00:36:04] If you did come to St. Louis, that's why it was a problem. He was making these threats while not being here. And then he showed up here and then it was like, okay, now what are we gonna do? So I had some of that naivety and part of it probably was that I was working for Monsanto and there's that, but like, so now all of a sudden Julie Kelly, who's up in Chicago, is getting called by the police to be like, Hey, he might come to Chicago next. Right? So once you have that experience and then you have somebody write articles about you and they're literally trying to be like, I have CC'd tweeted at your employer and emailed it to them, these articles that I've written about you. Like, that's when you're like, okay, there are people that want to harm me. How am I going to handle this? That's why I really hope I stay niche famous, just small enough to have my, my people reach out to me, but not big enough to ever have anybody think that they can derive value from harming me.

Shaun Newman [00:36:55] Yeah. I hope I never get to that point. I, I dunno,

Vance Crowe [00:36:59] You're probably actually a more likable person than I am though. I I you're very li like, people want to see you and the things you're doing succeed in a way that I feel that way. I wanna see your stuff succeed.

Shaun Newman [00:37:09] Well I appreciate that. I don't know. I are there, is there evil in the world? Yes, absolutely. If there's good there is evil, I mean, or bad or whatever you wanna call it. And is it lurking around the street corners? I'm sure it is. But if I approach the world that way, I just think that's a very dismal way to approach the world. I, I wanna put, I mean, it sounds corny to say out loud, but I, I wanna approach the world with positivity. I believe positive. One of the things I used to say all the time, I haven't said in a long time, but I'll bring it back out. I think positivity spreads just fast negativity. And so even if some drained lunatic searches me out, I hope that it doesn't change the way I look at the world for the rest of the time. 'cause I, I just got a lot of hope for people.

Vance Crowe [00:37:58] For me. It, it definitely did.

Shaun Newman [00:38:00] I know, but you, but you had Monsanto, you had Jordan Peterson, you had all these things. You had the Twitter mob, you had all these things come. I just, I've never interacted on social like people, I would say I am as boring as it gets on social media. I don't go on social media to rile people up. And to be successful, you need to have opinions on social media because people are attracted to hard opinions. And I'm just, I'm working my way along this adventure, if you will. And maybe someday when I'm 40, or maybe someday when something horrific or grand diose happens in life, all solidify an opinion. For now I am on the path of trying to talk to as many people as possible, pull so much out of it. Because I think for the first, I've said this lot to you, I think for the first 30 years of my life I was on autopilot and wasn't paying attention to shit. So now it's time to dig into all the things that matter in the world and try and figure out how they work, how it impacts me, how it impacts my family, how it impacts my community. And I've always gotten further ahead by approaching the world with love, kindness, positivity. And with my audience, I feel like they protect me as much as anything. And having open accessibility to me just hopefully builds a connection even more. 'cause they have some of the greatest ideas under the sun and I want them to be able to access me and, and, and move along. I mean, if some drainage guy wants to find Sean Newman, I should put this on airwaves, but it's like whether my number's there or not, it's not that hard of a thing for somebody who's that

Vance Crowe [00:39:36] Oh,

Shaun Newman [00:39:36] Absolutely wants to come after you. It's like, well, I mean everything about me is on social media.

Vance Crowe [00:39:41] I think the thing for me was that I wanted to be that positive. Everything's going good. And when I ended up having to confront the reality of it being dangerous and still kept going, that to me is like that, that's the right way of to go.

Shaun Newman [00:39:59] You think it's scale. And what I mean by scale is, is like I come from a very small community now Lloyd is 30,000 roughly people. But Hillman is this tiny little farming community you live in St. Louis, how many people live in St. Louis?

Vance Crowe [00:40:17] Oh, I mean the metro area is over a million for sure. Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:40:20] So a million plus, like I was saying this about, you know, getting involved in politics, I'm kind of jumping around here, but I look at Canada and I, I truly believe that there's still impact as small as I am to be had on whether it's local governance or provincially or even maybe federally. Federally I think is a little bit much. I gotta be honest, I think provincially, you know, where I'm from in Western Canada, I think the population is small enough. You know, like Saskatchewan giant province has just over a million people. So to me, I look at scale and I just go, maybe I am naive, but I look at it and I think that what you deal with is different than what I deal with. I

Vance Crowe [00:41:07] Think that, I think it actually is maybe not so much about scale. 'cause the people that I'm, that I've run into conflict with aren't here. Right? They're out in the world. Right. They're not in St. Louis. I think that I have a particular, like I poke at things, right? And, and, and I'll do it naively or I'll do it where I'm letting myself be naively. Like, I remember when I did that Jordan Peterson thing when, when it started to like get hot, I was like, how could I have known? And my buddy was like,

Shaun Newman [00:41:39] You knew.

Vance Crowe [00:41:40] You knew.

Shaun Newman [00:41:40] Yeah. Right?

Vance Crowe [00:41:41] And like, I don't think I knew consciously, but the, the, the whole reason I brought him to the American Farm Bureau was 'cause the president of the farm bureau said, Hey Vance, we're looking to do something a little edgy this year. And I was like, oh, he's asking for edgy. He doesn't know how edgy this is gonna get, but this'll be a lot of fun, right? And by being drawn to that electricity, that's, that's what did it. And it's, I I don't go out on, on Twitter and go like, oh, you moron, or you whatever. Like yeah,

Shaun Newman [00:42:08] Absolutely. I, but

Vance Crowe [00:42:09] I definitely am willing to poke on things that I think what's going on. But

Shaun Newman [00:42:14] I, I poke, I just poke differently. I poke in a two hour interview. And so people gotta be willing to give up their time. And I find the people that wanna learn, don't get me wrong, I mean, we got an anti hate network in Canada that is actively searching out things that they disagree with.

Vance Crowe [00:42:31] What is that? An anti hate network

Shaun Newman [00:42:33] That is a government thing

Vance Crowe [00:42:33] Looking for,

Shaun Newman [00:42:35] For hate speech and everything else. Are you serious? Canada's not like, you know, you joke about Sean, I I get offended, I get offended when we joke about me getting removed from YouTube and I'm like, some radioactive guy, go listen to my 300 plus episodes. I'm about is level headed. I think as, oh you

Vance Crowe [00:42:54] Just, you are literally just asking people, what do you think?

Shaun Newman [00:42:56] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:42:56] And they're on all sides of things.

Shaun Newman [00:42:58] And in and in Canada we wanna force people into a box where you only get to talk about a subject from this point of view. And if you go outside of that, we're gonna monitor it and stifle it. And Canada's passing legislation that's gonna do that. And so we got Annie hate network. They're actively searching out things that they deem to be fringe views or misogynistic or racist or you stick whatever word you want on it, it ain't good. So who knows, maybe I'll be doing the Sean Newman podcast from St. Louis soon enough. I have no idea. Right. Like it's, it's a strange world. We're we're, we're creating up north,

Vance Crowe [00:43:32] Where does this go? Like, I remember when Jordan Peterson was talking about the, this stuff and he was like, oh, there's doom. You know, this is what got both of us, I think to read the gula Capella go, right? Like, is it really going that way or is that the way to get everybody to pay attention? Just like we had an election here la last just the other day. And people be like, save democracy by voting for me. Is that what's going on with the worried about the hate group or it or the anti hate group? Or is that really, is this headed in a dark, dark place?

Shaun Newman [00:44:04] I I don't, I don't know if I went back a hundred years and maybe a little less than that and women were fighting for their right to vote, would I be sitting there going, this is a bad idea, right? Like, look at where this is leading. I have no idea. I sit now and I go like, I'm happy women get to vote, I'm happy. You know, like everyone's being treated equally. So the argument becomes now can you push the pendulum so far that it, it, it goes beyond everyone's equal into this world that is make believe and that's what it feels like we're pushing to, we're not talk, we're not allowed to talk about. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:44:48] I'll tell you, the Overton window just on what you are saying has shifted. And let me tell you why. You know, we were talking, we were heading down to the studio about the things you're not allowed to talk about, right? That, that there are, there are certain things that society has just decided like, nope, this is the line. And if you have any opinions on the other side of that line, you, we don't even talk about it. And one of them would be a line you just used, like, I'm glad we're all equal, right? In the US the way that you used to vote was whether you were a property owner or senators were appointed by their legislators. So instead of people having a popular vote for your senators, what you would do is you would vote for your representatives and the representatives would say, okay, we're gonna choose this businessman, this banker, this accountant, this attorney, this whatever. And he's going to go represent us for six years in the office, but he's not elected. And so property owners put the representatives in and then the representatives said, we're gonna send that senator. If I went out and tried to offer this as where we should roll back to, in order to have a more peaceful, peaceful, productive democracy, people would label me a hateful person that doesn't want women or, you know, poor people or o other people to have the right to vote. So that's an idea that we don't even talk about. And most people don't even know that senators, when the constitution was set up, weren't elected. But people don't talk about this 'cause we want everybody to be equal and have an equal share in our democracy.

Shaun Newman [00:46:17] You think the things that we want to talk about, lemme see if I can spit this out the right way. People don't wanna talk about that. Or the structures that be don't want us to talk about it. Because to me, I think people wanna talk about some shit and the structures that be don't want us to talk about it.

Vance Crowe [00:46:42] How, how does the structure want or not want something?

Shaun Newman [00:46:45] Well, structure's ran by human beings and a structure has control. So a human being is exerting their ideas and beliefs onto their control group. And over time these structures have fallen from maybe many hands into a few hands. Does that make sense? Did I,

Vance Crowe [00:47:06] Yeah. I mean, I actually would say the opposite. I think it's gone from being in a few hands to being in many hands that is the mob, right? Like we are now. So you're talking

Shaun Newman [00:47:16] Social media.

Vance Crowe [00:47:17] Well, social media. Any, any way because it, it, we never used to be able to centralize our government in this way, our news in this way, right? Like that everybody could be looking, looking at the same thing. One of the, the things I point out is it used to be, imagine if you were a king, right? You have a castle and you have a place where you can address all the people around you. It used to be that the loudest that the, the most people that you could address would be the people that could hear your voice with no amplification, no written word, no social media. Yes. So it used to limit an individual's power to the volume of their voice and the structure of the room that you could bring people into. And now a kid could have a twitch stream, a a Twitter handle, a YouTube channel that gives them more power than the most powerful king for hundreds and hundreds of years as far as how many people can hear their ideas

Shaun Newman [00:48:12] As far as breach. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:48:13] Sure. And I think that that has changed the nature so that the structures are not run by a few people. They're run by mobs of people. They're run by what does the, the group want?

Shaun Newman [00:48:26] You know, I, I'd love to write about this and then actually try, but here, you know, this is what we're doing. We're trying to get out some thoughts. I think it's an illusion of power then.

Vance Crowe [00:48:35] Okay.

Shaun Newman [00:48:35] I mean we all know about algorithms and everything else. I was just listening to, I think it's Robert Epstein, does that sound right on Joe Rogan? Talking about how Google manipulates, how people think and how it's a mind control machine because they've studied and structured things on, you know, he was talking, he was just talking politics, but just on things they suggest just on the Google machine and how it manipulates how a person thinks. And when you hear things like that, I just, I, I come all the way back like I don't wanna get to it in the weeds. I mean, I love going into them, but like, I really think, you know, we think social media, it's, it's, it's a way to get around structures, but at the same time, the powers that be still control a ton of government influence all the major media outlets. I mean, geez, they, they have censorship on the YouTubes, the Twitters, the Facebooks. So when a guy like me talks about common things that aren't that big, sure people can find it, but they throttle, they remove ideas, they censor. And so you go, well, it's ruled by the mob. Yeah. It's ruled by the mob. They choose.

Vance Crowe [00:49:51] I I accept that. I, I agree with, with that. And, and if you control the powers of how ideas get out to the mob, then you ultimately do control the mob. It's, I think that Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, as much as I admire SpaceX and I think, hey, it's pretty amazing that he's built a car company. You know, like, and you know, there, there used to be thought that you literally couldn't build a new car company. I think that Twitter is actually the greatest grab of all time, probably Got it. Super cheap, right? 25% of the American population is on Twitter, and he now is going to be able to be at the helm as ideas like neurons in a brain are flying across throughout the world. And it's, it's a game changer, right? This is kind of where you start being like, are we in the real world or are we in a movie? Because this was a plot twist that he took that over. And it seems like he has the opportunity to give the middle finger to the technocrats that run YouTube and Instagram, Facebook, and all of these other things.

Shaun Newman [00:50:55] Yes. I mean, don't get me wrong. One man in control of something that powerful scares the shit outta me, right? Like, 'cause I mean like, if it aligns with me, I'm like, oh, it's gonna be great, but what happens if it, you know, like what happens if it doesn't? And he is got this huge ability to just tailor. But I mean, we can put that towards anything. I mean, Zuckerberg on Facebook is a prime example of, of,

Vance Crowe [00:51:19] I've already given over to the idea that Elon Musk will become dramatically more powerful because he's already got a huge headstart on getting rockets into the space where they're going to be able to go out and mine asteroids. And when they bring an asteroid down to earth that's filled with platinum, he's going to be more wealthy than all of the wealth that exists right now on earth. And I think he's already won. 'cause how are you gonna catch up? You can start your spaceship company now to go out and mine asteroids. So for me, I'm kind of like, all right, well let's see where this mega Gajillionaire wants to take the world. 'cause he's already won. It's like watching a chess game that you already see have played out.

Shaun Newman [00:51:58] And he's got a little Donald Trump factor to where he actually, you know, for a lot of people when he went on Joe Rogan and was smoking the cigar and smoking weed and all that thing just has a human factor in a weird way. 'cause he is an eccentric guy that people enjoy. Like they, he, he lets loose a little bit. And a lot of people these days do not do that. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:52:21] It feels like you're getting behind the curtain

Shaun Newman [00:52:22] A little bit. Like, and yet that's probably strategy by him too. And you just, you know,

Vance Crowe [00:52:29] Speaking of people behind the curtain, did you follow this Andrew Tate guy at all? Has this hit you?

Shaun Newman [00:52:35] Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. What

Vance Crowe [00:52:36] Is your take on Andrew Tate?

Shaun Newman [00:52:37] Honestly, I don't know if I, I don't know if I've listened, watched enough to be like, this is my take. Every time something gets framed, I question who's framing it. So I'll g I'll give you an example that's more in my wheelhouse. Jeremy Mackenzie, raging, dissident, knowing anything about this guy. So he's a Canadian who kind of, he's been on Alex Jones several times. Canadian military guy who started a, a show, the Rage where he goes on and he has like a live stream for three hours where he just tears apart everything. He's a big comedian. Bit crosses the line into like, he just goes a little bit too far, probably wants a show, but other points, he's just like bang on, bang on, bang on, bang on. He's in jail right now and he's been on the show twice. And he has been framed as a terrorist for Dallan creating a diagonal on. So Dallan, he drew, it's this fictitious country, you're

Vance Crowe [00:53:43] Totally getting me kicked off at YouTube. Keep going.

Shaun Newman [00:53:47] That goes from right to left. And it, he drew it on paint. Anyways, it's a black flag with a white line. And it's was all the states and provinces that were kind of against, I think it was back then, mass mandates. Anyways. And they, he and it's VP is a, a goat that snorts cocaine and like, it's fictitious, except now it's been framed as a terrorist organization that he is the head of. And I'm not saying he is,

Vance Crowe [00:54:15] Well this is like the Pepe flag, but for Canada. For

Shaun Newman [00:54:18] Canada. So he's in jail right now and he's been in jail for, he hasn't been able to make bail and he's been in jail now, I dunno, three weeks, four weeks. It's been, it's been a while now. It isn't just because of that, right? He's done some things that have not helped himself. He's, you know, he got drunk on a, on a rage cast with a group of his buddies and said he was gonna, he joked about raping the leader of the conservative party's wife.

Vance Crowe [00:54:44] Okay, that's not good.

Shaun Newman [00:54:45] That's not good. And I would agree. I'm like, that's, that's like well over the line. And if I ever get him back on, we will talk about it because I'll be like, you know, you're not helping yourself out. So anyways, where I'm going with this is when I talk, when I bring back the Tate, I talk about Mackenzie. It's like, who's framing it and what are they trying to achieve? So I don't know the full story behind Tate. I haven't listened to enough, I didn't know a huge chunk of the story about Mackenzie in our country. And I go, there's more to this story than what the, the mainstream or even the people that get so angry about one thing he said,

Vance Crowe [00:55:22] I relate to this Tate guy in the sense that he is saying things that I don't, I think he's a lot like Peterson, he's really smart, but he doesn't know what he thinks until he says it out loud. And he is talking about things that people don't wanna say. And sometimes in order to get people's attention, he rattles it up by being like, I don't want a woman airline pilot because if we're in a terrible disaster, you know, is she gonna be able to handle it better than a man? Well, I don't know, but I want a man there. Right? And then that like, really alienates,

Shaun Newman [00:55:53] Right? Well then, well, and then that draws everybody in, right? And

Vance Crowe [00:55:55] Then he's got some point that you're like, well actually the truth of the matter is if I'm in a, in a, if my wife and I are driving home and it's snowing like crazy in a blizzard, I'm not gonna be like, honey, would you drive us home? Here are the keys, right? I'm going to drive us home. It's my responsibility to get my wife and my kids home. And there's a point there, right? There's a point there that people don't want to talk about because there may be some uncomfortable nuance with should I drive or should my wife drive that, that, that, that even now, you know, I'm hearing people, I'm hearing I, I got a lot of women listeners, a lot of ag women listeners that will, that, that are hearing this right now, being like, fuck you, I could drive in the snow better than you. And, and

Shaun Newman [00:56:41] There are gonna be women that can,

Vance Crowe [00:56:43] Right?

Shaun Newman [00:56:44] I I know a few of them,

Vance Crowe [00:56:45] But a lot of them, they can't. And that's the thing that Tate brings up,

Shaun Newman [00:56:49] Or, or,

Vance Crowe [00:56:50] And this is just one thing,

Shaun Newman [00:56:51] Or it just from my side, even if they can't, I still feel as a husband and a, a family man that it's my re responsibility to protect my family. Right?

Vance Crowe [00:57:00] And what,

Shaun Newman [00:57:00] And I don't, and I shouldn't feel guilty for that.

Vance Crowe [00:57:03] And, and you, and to even assert it, right? There are people out there that wanna say like, no, no, no, no, no, we shouldn't even talk about this. One of the things.

Shaun Newman [00:57:11] Yeah. But, but those people that don't wanna talk about anything, they're the biggest dangers to society we have. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:57:17] That's right.

Shaun Newman [00:57:18] There's no bigger, that's censorship. That's trying to get people to group think where they actually don't talk about what matters. That's why in my opinion, we're where we're at in different parts of Canada, at different parts of the world, is because for so long they framed it, this is what you get to talk about and everybody thinks like this and you'll find out, no, that's not true at all. And now they try and frame it as white supremacy or misogynistic or racist or whatever word they wanna try and, and put this in. It's like, no, people just wanna talk about some things.

Vance Crowe [00:57:50] So here's one of my edgy I thoughts and I don't know, I would be very interested if you fit this category, reach out to me on my dms or my, or my Facebook, like I actually wanna talk with you about this. Is that one of the most fundamental changes to American culture, I'm not sure if this is going on Canada, but I'm guessing it is probably the western world, is that in our country right now, 50% of the women over the age of 35 don't have children. And so you think about like, that's never occurred before. And there are women out there that are saying, you're right. Because it used to be that the only way I could be valuable is if you put a baby in me and I was raising them and I was stuck at home. And you met my wife. My wife is an excellent physical therapist. She, she is at, at the very, very top of her game. Maybe what may, maybe having children would've interfered with her ability to help other people. Like the birth control allowed women to not have to only be vehicles for babies and to be able to do this. But it has changed the nature of our culture such that I, I think it's like in the United States, 35% more people that were women without children voted for democratic candidates, Democrats. And so you think like that's a huge voting block of people that are operating under the same political principles, maybe because they don't have children or maybe because the reason they don't have children is the way that they think about things.

Vance Crowe [00:59:23] And this is changing not just our culture, but our political system and what we vote for and what becomes legal and what becomes illegal and you know, who becomes in charge and who gets the power. And it's happening because of birth control. That happened in what, the sixties. So

Shaun Newman [00:59:37] I continue to find myself in this little, as my prime minister would say, fringe group of, I have rural background. So once upon a time, majority of people had rural background. You go back to the twenties in Canada, it was

Vance Crowe [00:59:53] Yeah, 80% of the population limited. Yeah. Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:59:55] And now it's flipped. It's 83% in Canada live in cities. So if you have rural ideas, I'm already in the minority. I come from, you know, ideas that guns are not the worst thing under the sun. 'cause it lends itself to where I'm from. Oh, that's a minority idea. Or at least that's what it's portrayed as. I come from a family that ate eats meat. Well, that's starting to become this fringe idea. You know, I come from a, a land of oil and gas that's become a fringe idea. I'm in the fringe on everything. And when you talk about women not having children, I, I like, I'm all for women getting to decide and, and having that ability and having things open in workplace and everything else. But we both know this, one of the most important things I ever did in my life was married. I don't think people understand how big and important a decision that is. And in society we treat it like it can just be thrown away. Which I mean, if there's no kids involved, sure. But if you approach the biggest decisions of your life, like it could be thrown away. How are you approaching life in general? That's one thing. Two is kids were probably the best decision that I had zero clue what I was getting myself into. 'cause how can you possibly know? But there's so much meaning in that and it's only going to grow over time as they get older. Hopefully, God willing. And so like coming back to this women, that 50% over 35, like I don't know what that does to society. I have no idea.

Shaun Newman [01:01:27] But there's so much value in raising children and having children and what that does to a human being that instead of promoting we're not, we're just promoting that because you get to have your life and go work in one of the ivory towers. That's where the meaning of life is. It's like, no, that's why Jordan Peterson and people like that are starting to, or, or have risen the fan. 'cause they're trying to point out that some of the meaning in life fans is just the simple things. It's not having $10 million in your bank account. It's not like whatever that is. Certainly, I I love having something that's impactful to me. And, and my wife is a career driven woman and I love that she's found that. But we still love having kids and that is like really, really important. Family is my number one thing. If coming to sa St. Louis was going to pull away from that, I wouldn't to come. If getting uber famous is even possible and I lose my family, I won't do it. Because that is the most important thing. And they have to be there. And

Vance Crowe [01:02:28] I, I just gave a talk last night about the lessons I've learned from Legacy Interviews. So I don't talk about what people say in the interviews, but I talk about like, hey, there are patterns that emerge here. And one of the things that I say close to the end of the talk is some of the stories you should consider telling your children. This was at a very prestigious country club. People that have been very, very successful. They're paying a lot of money to be a part of this more than most people's yearly salary. Just to be a member of that club. And one of the things that I talk about is, the best question I ask during Legacy Interviews is, what should your children know about success? And what that's really all about is to say, most of the time people talk about what is it, what does it take to be successful? Right? But the real question is what's, imagine you get successful on some domain, money, career, whatever. What is important about getting there? Like what was worth sacrificing weekends, evenings time away from the family were versus what was not worth sacrificing your marriage and affair, drugs and alcohol

Shaun Newman [01:03:38] Evenings, weekends away from the family.

Vance Crowe [01:03:41] It could be right. Right. And that's one of those things that most of the time when you're a young person, you're so focused on, can I succeed that you, you maybe can lose out on this whole vision. And so if we're talking about people that are living in totally different paradigms, 'cause once you have children, you are locked into the future paradigm in some way. Because it's not just like, well when I die, you know, we're gonna wrap it up and see you later. I'm sending my daughters out into this world, so I want a situation where they can get work if they want to, that they can marry who they want to, whatever that is. Society is really, really changing its definition of what is successful right now. And I, you know, how destabilizing is this?

Shaun Newman [01:04:27] I was gonna, you know, I put a lot of value in, in family and being around them being present. 'cause I understand how impactful those years are. In saying all that, I also wonder when the time comes that, and you get called to war and I I don't mean like, I don't mean actually. Well, I mean it could be in an essence like going to actual war with bullets flying and bombs going off and everything else where you have to leave your family for the betterment of your family because there's, you know, like my father at a point in his age, right around where I'm now for the, for his family had to leave and had to go work away from home for a lot of days. And even then, while he was away from me, he was teaching us different things even though he wasn't impacting us every single day. And so I, I guess I, I'm curious, you know, what point, and does a man or woman I guess maybe get called away to war? And I'm just using that as an analogy and does it happen to every single one of us?

Vance Crowe [01:05:50] I don't know. You know, you, you sit here and I, my immediate reaction is to say, man, I hope I don't get called away to war. But you know, who gets called away to war? People that are needed, people that have something to, and I

Shaun Newman [01:06:01] Wanna be clear, I don't mean more going off to Iraq.

Vance Crowe [01:06:04] I, I I recognize like,

Shaun Newman [01:06:06] I mean it could be like the call, it could

Vance Crowe [01:06:07] Be the convoy, it could be the con

Shaun Newman [01:06:08] It could be call, it could be that it could be for somebody, their call is to go into politics. It could be for somebody, their call is to, I don't know, become involved in a community project that instead of being around on every single weeknight, now they're gone for, you know, if they were gonna be around a hundred percent of the time, now they're only around 40% of the time you under, like,

Vance Crowe [01:06:28] That

Shaun Newman [01:06:29] Can be your call to go out anyways.

Vance Crowe [01:06:31] But this is in, in, you know, when you make that decision on who to get married to, you couldn't possibly be ready for all the decisions you're gonna make with this person or how badly you're gonna need them or how much you are going to need them to be forgiving or patient or whatever. And it's amazing to think about the being called off to war. The only way you're gonna, your family is gonna survive That is if you chose the right partner and without the right partner, you're just, you're a solo act and you're, you're floating off in the universe

Shaun Newman [01:07:01] And it's for your kids. For my kids, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to impart on them how important that decision is. Because for me, I don't know if I understood how important of a decision that is. I think I kind of like figured it out kinda along the way. Like I didn't have a sit down chat with mom and dad where they said like, listen, you better make sure about these things. And I remember going to the Catholic church, my wife's Catholic and them talking about kids and money and religion I think were the three big things that you need to talk about. And I remember thinking like, yeah, I talked about some of these things. You're an idiot. And yet here I sit, I'm, you know, I, I've talked to you about this off air, about religion and, and the world unseen. I'm broaching that subject right now. And it's one of the things I would say that I'm weakest with my wife in, in talking about probably a lot of us are because it's, it's kind of like the, how do you broach that subject? It's a tough one. Money's easy I think not for everyone. And certainly kids, you either one of 'em or you don't. All right. But yeah,

Vance Crowe [01:08:06] I think you actually probably this is a good thing worth thinking about, right? Which is, which of those areas are you good at working with your wife on on? And which are the ones that you should be working on, right? Like, which are the ones that you need to focus on? Because it probably changes over time, right? And, and you know, you think about, my wife and I were married for almost 10 years before we had kids. And now that we've been married for 10 years, more than 10 years now, and I'm 40, this is 25% of my life. You think about those people that got married when they were in their early twenties, right? And they, by the time they're 40, they've spent 50% of their life with this person. They have actually grown up with this person. And in these moments and whatever you came to that relationship with whatever you thought about God or how you thought you were gonna raise children or what money was even gonna be available to you right? Now, all of a sudden these things are different. So you gotta get realignment. I don't think you ever get to be like, we shipped it. Well

Shaun Newman [01:09:07] None of that's static. Yeah. Like you can have a million dollars or take the money. You could be in a financially stable position and in the last two years have lost your job, had a kid get sick, where you gotta throw everything at trying to figure out the best possible. So you could go from having money to broke. You

Vance Crowe [01:09:27] Could have a partner that had something happen that disarmed whatever, made them great and is no longer there,

Shaun Newman [01:09:32] Rode on a plane. You know, like, I can't, I can't help myself if you get stuck on me, be beside a plane. I I love talking to people,

Vance Crowe [01:09:38] You and me both.

Shaun Newman [01:09:39] So I, I sat and talked to this lady and she was I think late forties and her husband and got Ms and I, so I was like, how's that going? I mean, like, I don't mean to pry, I just like, you know, to me that would be extremely difficult. Not because I'm gonna run away and go find someone new because I'm like, my vow is to my partner and I, I wanna, you know, through thick or thin. Well what does thick or thin mean? You know, like you can plan in your twenties or your thirties or whatever you, you cross, you know, and, and decide to make that choice. But like, nothing's static. We're all getting older. Kids throw so many curve balls you can't even begin to imagine.

Vance Crowe [01:10:17] Yeah. 'cause you don't really know how your partner is going to be until,

Shaun Newman [01:10:21] Until you get into, until

Vance Crowe [01:10:22] It at 3:00 AM and the baby won't stop crying. And both of you need sleep. 'cause both of you got stuff to do the next day. And now you're like, are we fighting over this? Is one of us gonna win? Or are we finding a way to cooperate? And man, you don't know. You don't know who you are until you've

Shaun Newman [01:10:37] Gone through that. So how do you prepare your kids for something as monumental of a choice like that, which you can't even begin to explain.

Vance Crowe [01:10:45] Well, when people used to say this answer that I'm gonna say it seems so cliche, but it's like you just have to be the man that you want your daughters to wanna fall in love with and your sons to wanna be like. And the only way you can do that is proof of work. It's to actually do that. And I, you know, I have some regrets about how I treated my twenties, right? I, I dated a girl and got broken up with and it really tore at my sense of self. 'cause I was totally head over heels for this. Like the first, you know, love that you have in college or whatever. She breaks up with me and I start being like, oh, well you may not like me. You may not want to be with me, but I'm gonna go show you that I can get all of these other, you know, women to find me, you know, interesting and exciting and wanna be around me. And I don't think I was a very good person during that time. And I am rightfully afraid that my daughters will one day fall in love with that Vance. Right. The one that was But they might running around but they

Shaun Newman [01:11:50] But might need to.

Vance Crowe [01:11:51] Yeah. But maybe they maybe not. Listen,

Shaun Newman [01:11:53] I don't

Vance Crowe [01:11:53] Know that, I don't know that anybody would be like, man, am I glad I dated Vance Crowe back in the his twenties?

Shaun Newman [01:11:58] Well that, that can be fair. But like I I,

Vance Crowe [01:12:02] I take that back. I don't, I don't think my ex-girlfriends are like, oh he, you know, was totally unfair to me or treated me horribly. But I I just, I wasn't seeing them for them. And that's what I,

Shaun Newman [01:12:12] I had a moment in my twenties where I treated women like dirt. 'cause they stick to you like mud. And, and the reason why is I'd been walk. I was the nice guy. I always have been. I mean, I'm, I don't,

Vance Crowe [01:12:24] I constantly make fun of you about it. That's right.

Shaun Newman [01:12:26] And I had a stretch in my late when I was 19 to probably until I met Mel, where I was a dick. And it was a choice because I was tired of women walking on me and I was done with it. And so I told him not what I thought. I didn't hold back and I was a dick. And

Vance Crowe [01:12:43] I

Shaun Newman [01:12:43] Have no regrets on that because I think it's another stage of life that Sure could I have been the nice guy the rest of my life. No, but there's times you gotta stand up for yourself. There's times when a good looking woman doesn't just get to have, you know, everything and, and, and then, and then, right. Like, that isn't the way the world works. You have to treat people with respect. And I certainly don't want to go back to that Sean, but I li I lived that life for, for a stint as well. Like where I just, yeah. I'm tired of the like no,

Vance Crowe [01:13:16] When I was in the middle of this, right, the excitement, you're like dating somebody, seeing if you can get them to be into you. And, and it was fun and exciting and I remember being like, why would you wanna be married? Like, look how fun this is. You get, you know, if this one ends, it doesn't matter. A couple weeks later you're gonna meet some other, you know, really attractive, interesting person. And then when you get to being like our age and you're married for a time, you're like, god almighty, don't make me go back to that. Whatever happens, I do not want to go back. Because the value of having a partner that's your worthy adversary or compatriot or whatever, the person that can balance you out. Like it would be awful to be without it. And so you think about going back to your thing about what happens when life takes changes and you know, your wife gets MS or you know, becomes disabled or something. I hope that I can find a way to be poetic about it because Pete, you know, his wife Millie raised their kids and she, Pete was my mentor, a hundred year old mentors. Yeah. Spent all this time with him.

Shaun Newman [01:14:22] I fascinating interviews actually. If nobody's ever listened to them. Thank

Vance Crowe [01:14:25] You. I I agree. I mean like, he's just a brilliant man. He gave me that one interview. I've tried to do more and he is like, I've said everything I'm gonna say. So that's a hundred year old man with lots of wisdom. One of the things that he told me,

Shaun Newman [01:14:36] Is he still alive?

Vance Crowe [01:14:36] Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Shaun Newman [01:14:37] Do I get to meet him?

Vance Crowe [01:14:39] If you want, we could go out to New York and meet him. Sure.

Shaun Newman [01:14:41] He's in New York.

Vance Crowe [01:14:42] Yeah.

Shaun Newman [01:14:43] But

Vance Crowe [01:14:43] I would plan a trip to go out there. I'm I, I gotta go to New York for some other stuff, so maybe we should think about that. So, but anyway, Pete said to me, Millie getting Alzheimer's was sad for me, but it wasn't sad for her. She just, you know, her memories were drifting away. And the best part about it was she took care of me for 80 years and I got to take care of her. And I think, see

Shaun Newman [01:15:07] I really appreciate that sentiment.

Vance Crowe [01:15:09] How can I be the sort of person that views the crisis poetically like Pete? 'cause it's not gonna play out the same way that Pete's did. No crisis is gonna happen. But what made Pete be able to survive that crisis was he found a poetic way to understand what was happening.

Shaun Newman [01:15:25] Yeah. I, man, I I I, I said on stage with quick Dick and Tuesday asked, you know, one of the questions from the audience is what's, who's impacted your life the most? And so I got to, my wife is in the, in the audience and I got to say it and everybody's like, oh. And then they made jokes about me trying to get laid and everything. I was like, no. I'm like, I'm like literally dead serious. You know, she's been luck, fate. I don't know what the word is. Somehow I stumbled into the right woman or she stumbled. I don't know. Because finding that has been, has been better than words can describe. And I love going deep into subject. So I mean, obviously as we sit here and talk and, and, and roll around ideas, she said probably the best compliment that she did not realize. She said to me the other day, Vance, and I was talking about the Bible. I can't, I, you know, I started reading the bible again, just trying to, here's this old book of knowledge. So I started reading it. Anyways, it's

Vance Crowe [01:16:34] Pretty Lindy, right? It's been around for a long time. That's right. Probably be around for a long time.

Shaun Newman [01:16:37] So I was explaining, I was asking her about, you know, some ideas and it was about heaven. And she said something along the lines of, honestly, I don't know if I really care. I was like, oh, well why is that? She goes, well, every day that I'm with you and the kids is, is heaven. Like, and I was like, wow, that, that should be put on a postcard. And you know,

Vance Crowe [01:17:01] What a good woman, right? Because that sort of thinking is a choice.

Shaun Newman [01:17:06] Yes.

Vance Crowe [01:17:06] It's, it's like we think of it as, oh man, you know, you're lucky Sean. 'cause you found a woman that wants to be in love with you. But you choose that, right? You choose is the suffering that I'm going through by being up at 3:00 AM or dealing with diapers or doing whatever. Is this something that I love or is it something that I resent and it's your, it's the thousand actions that you take every day that allow you to love it as opposed to resent it.

Shaun Newman [01:17:34] Well, and I gotta be on like marriage or any relationship isn't is a roller coaster. You're gonna have your ops and your downs. And one of the best things that Mel and I have done in our relationship, and I would say to anyone who is, you know, wherever you're at, is communication, right? Like, we talk, we talk a lot and at times it's uncomfortable times. I do not agree, but that puts us on an even playing field. 'cause she knows where I'm at and I know where she's at. And I, like you think my wife wants to hear me talk about,

Vance Crowe [01:18:10] Oh, my wife didn't listen to my podcast. She's like, but I mean

Shaun Newman [01:18:12] Like, I know, but like about all these difficult subjects and yet if you don't talk about 'em, you're hiding from like Trump. So if you're, if you're, if you're, I'm not gonna give marriage advice. I, I would just, in my life when I'm struggling in our marriage, our relationship, we talk about it because that uncovers what's actually going fuck on.

Vance Crowe [01:18:36] The best thing that happened to my wife and I was, we were getting, we're getting married, we're going through the planning of the wedding and we started having conflict in a way that I had never dealt with conflict before. Because it used to be if I'm dating a girl and we have a little bit of a fight and she doesn't wanna resolve it the way I wanna resolve it, that's fine. I'm just gonna go date someone else. Right? But now you're preparing to get married to this person, right? And like you heard my wife say this morning, we only knew each other for six months before we got engaged, right? So we're starting to have these conflict and I'm like, oh crap, what am I gonna do? I'm actually not that good at arguing with a woman that I can't just leave. Right? So we did this, I I got advice from a guy at the World Bank actually who said, you should go see an Imago therapist. Are you familiar with this imago therapy? Imago therapy is this fascinating style of, it's really a style of communication. You have a a if, if you and I were doing Imago therapy, a therapist would be sitting right there. But you and I would be looking at each other. And what we would be doing is just talking and listening. So you would say something to me about something hurtful I did to you. You know, you, you didn't pick me up at the right time and dah dah, dah, dah. Instead of me being like, you told me to pick you up at 1130 and then you changed the time and you know me telling you, well, instead I say, I'm hearing you say, Sean, that I was supposed to be at the airport to pick you up and that really pissed you off that I wasn't, is that correct? And then you start to say like, yes or no. And then I say, is there more that therapist here is if I start to jump in and start to fight with you while you're telling me what I'm supposed to be hearing.

Vance Crowe [01:20:14] If I'm not just repeating back and showing I've heard what you have to say, then she throws the flag and we start again. And then you tell me it again and I repeat back for you what I heard and you do this. And then eventually it's my turn and you have to repeat back what I'm saying. Oh, well, you know, I feel like you're always relying on me and you, it's

Shaun Newman [01:20:31] Forcing you to have a conversation.

Vance Crowe [01:20:33] And it's teaching you that most of the time you're not actually listening because you, in order to listen to somebody in order to mirror back and say, is this what you're saying? You have to listen. And by me giving you an accurate representation of what you just said, I have to actually be thinking about what you're saying and you have to hear your argument that you just made to me from a different part of your brain. And so we start dialoguing this technique that I do with my wife called mirroring, literally changed my life in every aspect because it taught me how to listen to my wife and how to make sure she knew that I was listening. So we, I can't think of the last time there was yelling in my house over a over a disagreement and that it was that imago therapy is what made that possible.

Shaun Newman [01:21:19] I think. Yeah, usually yelling and you just gotta get to the, you gotta get to the bottom of it, right? Like usually you're yelling, you know, that's just emotion coming out. I

Vance Crowe [01:21:30] Are you a yeller?

Shaun Newman [01:21:34] No. At times with my kids, they can be stern voice, I guess parent voice because at times my kids are, they're vibrating on a different level and you have to snap them out of it. And I haven't found it. Doesn't mean I'm right, but at times that will snap them out of it. With my wife, no. Have I raised my voice? Maybe yelled? Oh for sure. Like I have, but I don't like to make a habit outta any of that. Usually my wife is a skilled, skilled arguer. Like, I mean, it drives me fucking insane because she is really quick and I need to chew on something. Just, I, I love the process. I love to think about it. And so when she gets me to a point of frustration, she can break me that way. And usually when I get to that point and do something that where I raise my voice, it's probably a clear indication to her that she's gone too far. But I mean, does it happen? No, not overly. And I would say over the course of time, 'cause we've been married eight years, but we've been together 15 going on 16. And I think that's something that you slowly learn. Combatant is the wrong word, but you, you know, you're, you slowly learn how each other operate. And I would say early on when I was coming outta my twenties where I told you what I thought I would say I probably yelled more then than I ever do now. But, you know, that's, that's time and learning and, and you know, my dance and the dance of, of life together,

Vance Crowe [01:23:13] We were married maybe five years or so and it was right around the time I was listening to Jordan Peterson, but my wife one time was like, I hate arguing with you. You always win. And at first I was like, no, I don't, you win too. And it dawned on me, I don't want her to have the experience of, if she's trying to communicate something to me that she thinks is important Yeah. That I somehow beat her because I'm standing on a stage, I'm arguing every day. I'm doing it professionally, right? Like my brain works this way and I am extremely disagreeable, right? Like, I don't mind the conflict at all. It was when she told me that, I was like, whoa, hold up, Vance, you are doing something wrong here. It's not her perception, you know, I think she actually did win arguments, but I was making her feel like she was the loser. And that Jordan Peterson woke me up to that and I was like, I don't, I I I don't know if you went and asked her right now, she'd probably still say, oh, Vance wins most of the arguments. But I've gone to great lengths to make it so I am not letting her win. But I'm being open to the idea that she maybe should win some of these arguments and maybe some of the things that I'm doing that are bullheaded, that she's like clapping her hands about, you know, maybe I need to like wake up and hear 'em.

Shaun Newman [01:24:33] I, I mean, winners and losers in a marriage isn't, isn't a good thing.

Vance Crowe [01:24:37] No, no. Right.

Shaun Newman [01:24:38] Like you're both in it together. And so, I mean, I don't know, I I'm, I just come back to, I've been extremely fortunate in my pick, you know, like I, but I, that plays out in like, I tell this story all the time. This is this, get us into a different topic with my wife. I, one of the things in the podcast is, is like this pattern spotting, right? Is this pattern I've seen about how and Christians and probably different religions hate when I use, well it could be god, it could be the universe. I don't know what it is. It's something some force creator, whatever word you want to associate to it. I'm right now where I sit, I don't have a definitive of this. Is it my wife when I say, you know, maybe I ran into her, maybe she ran into me maybe as luck. To me it's like, one thing I'm pretty certain on is divine intervention or fate or whatever you wanna call it. And what I mean by that is I went to two schools to look at their hockey programs. One was nationally ranked, every hockey player would've picked it in a heartbeat. I went there and I just didn't jive with the people. They weren't my people. That's, that's all I can say about it. The next school I went to didn't win a game the year before. Oh. Had the worst hockey rink I've ever been in. Like bar none. It was not a great hockey rink, but at a campus that I was just like, huh. And the people were great.

Shaun Newman [01:26:10] But I stayed for, I dunno, three hours. And I was like, Nope, I'm going back. I need to get back to this program here. And a giant snowstorm happened, but I was still, no, I'm going and I'm leaving the town and two ambulances go flying by and a cop car because there'd been a huge accident on the highway back. And I mean, it's blizzarding like, like nobody's business. You can't see anything. And I'm, I'm like,

Vance Crowe [01:26:36] Huh.

Shaun Newman [01:26:37] So I went to the payphone. Yeah. I didn't have a cell phone back then. Called the coach from this, this co from Northland

Vance Crowe [01:26:43] From the Less Good College.

Shaun Newman [01:26:44] Yes. From Northland. Yeah. Okay. And said, I think maybe I'll spend the night. And so I spent the night with what would turn out to be my wife's best friend's husband. And we hit it off and a group of people and I ended up not going to the college that everyone would've chose, ended up going to this place. I was just meant to be, I, I don't know how better I had the greatest time of my life. The day one I walked into campus, I was, I was late getting scheduled into the school. And so instead of being in the freshman dorms, I got pushed to upperclassmen dorms. And I was older anyways. I was 21 at the time. Right. And it, who's the first person I see walking in my wife. And did I talk to her? No, I was a dick to her. And like the story runs and it took, but literally she was like kitty corner to where I lived. We were that close. And it came off of a snowstorm that I can't even begin to explain that I was going back like hell or high water. I was going back until the two ambulances went flying by and I'm like, maybe that's a sign. And I didn't think that way. But now looking back at it, I certainly do. And so like meeting my wife, as much as I'm like, I had absolute control in that I did not have absolute control in that. And I don't, I don't know about love at first sight, but that's not what it was.

Vance Crowe [01:27:58] Yeah. For Anne and I, the, the story is divine, but in a, in a like a different spin. So I connect with this like, it seems like, 'cause Anne would not on almost any dynamic be like, what is Vance looking for as he's dating these women? It was not what Anne was about. Right. She was actually a Catholic girl that was going to church and was going to expect me to go to church with her, which was not on my like agenda. She was an athlete and what she wanted to do for fun was to go exercise. I wanted to go drink and then watch movies the next day or like, you know, be a lazy bum. And so now I've got this woman that like shows up late to shit and I'm on time, like a switch wa Swiss watch. She wants to exercise, she wants to go to church. But for whatever reason, I was just so drawn to her just so and dumb Vance that made all kinds of bad decisions throughout his whole life. You know, for whatever reason was like, I met this girl, I gotta get her to marry me. Right? I like whatever I, I've gotta do. And I, I have a whole story I tell about Pete and, and the interaction that I had with him. That's when I knew I went from being like, she's a really amazing woman that I like dating to being like, we should get married. Have I told you this story before? Is we went up to visit him. So it's of like the, the, you know, the pilgrimage from Washington DC up to New York. We go to visit Pete and as soon as we get up there, he is having a great time.

Vance Crowe [01:29:32] We have some drinks. It's Friday night, we have a good dinner. He, he gets to talk with Anne. Anne loves him. It's so wonderful. Wake up the next morning and Pete is already up, made breakfast and is like, here, eat your breakfast. 'cause you're gonna get outta here. I'm like, why would we leave Pete? We're here to see you. He's like, I want you to go to this art show. I'm like, Pete, I don't wanna go see some dumb art show. Like, and Pete was the one that had gotten me into art. So like, he, I, I couldn't be like, I don't like art. Like he, he was just like, go see this. And I'm like, I'm not gonna fight with him. So we'd, you know, get dressed up, put our coats on to leave and right as we're getting ready to leave, he goes and dear, would you mind waiting outside? And I'm like, what the fuck? You know, like, is he gonna tell me like, you guys can leave and you don't need to come back? Like, did she say something last night that pissed him off or, yeah, you know what? And and so she steps outside and I'm like shaking. He grabs me by the arm and he looks straight at me and he goes, okay, when you get to this art museum, don't look at the art. Look at her looking at the art. It's those eyes that she'll see you with. And this was such an amazing thing because I would've gone to that art show and been like, oh, look at that color. What do you think of the composition ma you know, trying to be impressive. And instead I was sitting there trying to understand which piece of art does she get drawn to? What does she care about? And what I've found was that she cared about things I didn't care at all about. But she was caring about, did this not, is this a giant piece of art that's really colorful, but did this take the artist a long time to do, did they have to really dedicate months or even years to making this?

Vance Crowe [01:31:08] Because then she cared about it. It was a craft. They weren't just throwing paint up on the wall. And I realized like, if I marry this woman, she's going to demand this of me, which is more than I will ever demand of myself and that will make me better. And that's when I was like, all right, we're I'm, she has passed the test. Pete was right. This is exactly correct. I'm marrying her.

Shaun Newman [01:31:30] See I got a brother who was married in, in under a year, very similar, maybe not same circumstances, but fast. And Mel always put the brakes. She was, she was methodical. And I, I actually appreciate it 'cause I, I was, after six months I was probably head over heels, but we were methodical and more so she was methodical in making sure that it was the right thing. And now I probably waited too long at the end, you know, and I did stupid things like go play hockey in Finland. Really put stress on a relationship to try and make it across the pond and everything else. I don't recommend that to people. And yet I don't regret it. I needed to go play hockey and get paid for it and experience that and put that

Vance Crowe [01:32:19] And say, I could have done this. This is the path I could go. And then you chain. 'cause you said the reason you didn't play paid hockey was 'cause of a girl.

Shaun Newman [01:32:27] Yeah. Well I, I, when I left Finland, I couldn't get, it was in the middle of a season. My niece was getting married in Mexico and I hadn't seen Mel in, I don't know, months. And you could, you could just tell like it, everybody has that moment where you understand things are going to change forever. And that was one of those moments where if I don't get on the plane and go see my girlfriend, soon to be future wife, not soon to be, that will fade and it will disappear. But if I get on the plane, I cannot come back into Finland. 'cause my paperwork still hadn't gone through. So I knew by getting on the plane, I was, I was calling it quits. I was taking all my stuff packing up. I had to go talk to the G and the team and be like, I know you've signed this company, but I'm, see you, I gotta go see about a girl. And it was the easiest conversation I ever had. But yeah, I I don't even, like, I, I have zero regrets on it and you know, if, if the world put me in a place to meet Mel, it was my choice to keep Mel, I guess is where I would put it. Right. Don't regret any of that.

Vance Crowe [01:33:35] That is poetic. That's a, that's a poetic way to look at it. I And how do you pass these lessons on to your kids, right? Like IIII think it's as much as I want it to be storytelling, you know, having them hear the Pete story, which they'll hear it so many times, the the, you know, by the time they're old enough. But I really think that the only influence you're gonna have over who your daughters wanna get married to is can they meet who dad was for us? And can you set that bar so high that only great men are even willing to, to, to try and, and you know, get in their good graces?

Shaun Newman [01:34:14] Well, yes, you have to, you have to model it for 'em. Absolutely. But then they gotta go out and experience the world themselves. And I think for any parent, including myself, especially when it comes to your daughter or daughters, that's gonna be extremely, for a man, I think that's like, I wanna be so protective. I want them to only ever date one guy and it'd be the perfect guy and whenever else, blah, blah, blah. But that isn't my wife's story. That isn't my sister's story. That isn't probably your wife's story, right? Like at some point kids need to go experience, they need to leave the nest, they need to go have their experiences, they need to, you know, for me riding across the country was, are you

Vance Crowe [01:34:53] Sure this isn't abdicating a responsibility that a dad should have? This is the thing that I have really been grappling with. And granted my daughters are two years old and three months old. So this is all theoretical.

Shaun Newman [01:35:04] My daughter's five. So,

Vance Crowe [01:35:05] So I, but I'm wondering if society hasn't told us like, Hey parents, it's a new age, you know, we, we did it and it's okay. And women need to go out and experience things when we really look at it and we

Shaun Newman [01:35:18] Say, so you'd rather stage marriage for 'em and, and, and do that. Ha have 'em be like, you're getting married to this one guy.

Vance Crowe [01:35:25] Well, I think that to say definitively that that does not have value is to overlook centuries of human practice that probably had summaries and it it went that way. It, you know, it's not,

Shaun Newman [01:35:40] Didn't, didn't back then the reason they did it was for the political world of games of, of tying yourself to landowners and kings and queens and tying families together and creating strong bongs that way.

Vance Crowe [01:35:52] Well, it could be that the thinking that you're putting forward of like they've gotta go out and experience is peasant way of thinking. And the I'm going to preserve my daughters for, you know, to try and make it so that they're their, they do only date

Shaun Newman [01:36:08] Remind the clock. Let's just take us two, right?

Vance Crowe [01:36:10] If

Shaun Newman [01:36:10] Your parents has advance, you're marrying Jodi from across the, the street. That's your, what would you think about that?

Vance Crowe [01:36:18] It it wouldn't work for me. It would've, it would've been bad, but I'm a man too, right? Like, maybe that would be really good for Jodi. Maybe, maybe that puts Jodi with, you know, the person that they can say. So I don't know that there's a universal thing here. I just know that we have an unquestioning belief that it's like if a parent tried to arrange a marriage here or you found a family was doing that, you'd be like, who are those ancient people? And it might be worth thinking about what instruction should I be giving my children and what expectations should I have for them? Because the expectations, if they live up to them, will make their lives better. And the expectation wouldn't be, I want you to go date 10 guys before you get married. That wouldn't be your expectation.

Shaun Newman [01:36:59] No, but I, I don't know if I'd ever phrase it in that I think you need to go get, you know, plowed by 50 guys. Like, I mean, let's cut the brass tack here. I just think like, my life has been shaped by my experiences. If I never left home, if I never got out from under my parents' wings, had to start thinking for myself. If I never experienced heartbreak and you know, how women treated the nice guy and I'm just, you know, I'm just, my experiences, if I didn't witness how the world interacted, I wouldn't be with the guy I am and I wouldn't have been able to be hopefully the husband I am to my wife now. And I think for, for my kids, that's gonna be part of the wisdom I pass along is you need to experience the world. I that that doesn't mean that you have to go to a retreat where it's a giant orgy and everything else, right? Like, it just, it means take respect yourself. You have to have respect for yourself and others, but along the road defining respect. You're gonna do some dumb things and that's okay. Don't kill yourself over it or beat yourself up on it because we all do dumb things. Like, I mean, that's how you figure things out. You know, how do you figure out the stove's hot? You touch it and then you realize maybe don't do that again. Well, when it comes to 18-year-old kids going through college and everything else, how do you realize 24 beers isn't right? Well, you do it 15 times and then slowly decide maybe that isn't the right thing to do. Some people never find their way outta that hole. I'm happy I did.

Shaun Newman [01:38:32] Like,

Vance Crowe [01:38:32] I think the thing that I, because I I had, you know, that that's what I did. College was a, a wild party for me. It was. And, and the reason that I got value out of college was because it honed my ability to communicate with regular people. And, but like, it wasn't the classes and that was just a horrible waste of money for how I, you know, embraced it. When I went to grad school, that was a good use of money. I was really paying attention then because I was really on the hook for it and I understood I was on the hook for it. But I sit here and wonder if the aristocracy wants the, the, the plebs, you know, it wants the, the, the peasants to be thinking, hey, do college and your kids have gotta run around and they've gotta, but they are holding their children to a different standard and putting them in different circumstances where yes, they get prepared for the world, but not by rolling around in the mud, but by thinking about things at a meta level, at a yes, you're giving up the instantaneous pleasure of hookup culture for this larger thing that may catapult you and your relationship and your our ability to maintain wealth within our family or maintain property or to build a family legacy that's bigger than the one that we have. I'm not saying I come from that, I'm saying I have to at least wonder, am I thinking about things like a peasant or like a king And I don't know, it's worth enter.

Vance Crowe [01:40:04] It's worth entertaining the discussion.

Shaun Newman [01:40:08] I think even the aristocracy kids are in a hookup culture. I think you're lying to yourself if you don't think that exists. I are there people that try and control it. Absolutely. The more you try and control, like, I don't know, I'm just going off what's worked for me and when I come all the way back to it, it's like, can you be a peasant, lowly person and make yourself into something that's successful? And whether that's just relationships, money, maybe all of it. I dunno. Yeah. That happens all the time. We live in the western world. You can do that. You can start a company tomorrow and be uber successful. I mean, and you don't need to go to school to do that. Lots of people do it with their own two hands. And I mean, when it comes to relationships and finding, you know, what your parents modeled to be what you wanted. If, if you, you came from a healthy family dynamic, maybe you came from an unhealthy family dynamic and you understand what you don't, I don't, I don't know. It's like the way I learned is by experiencing the world and I think my children need to experience it. It could be the wrong idea, could not be what the high ups in the Ivy Towers do. But honestly, I don't know if I give two fucks at times what they think because I think they have a corrupted view of the world as well. And so to me, I want them to go out and experience, I want them to, you know, they, they gotta figure out how to respect themselves first.

Shaun Newman [01:41:41] Some of that comes with figuring out what doesn't feel good. And, and as a parent, you know, it's easy to say that when your kids are six, five and three Right. It'll be tough when they get older.

Vance Crowe [01:41:50] Yeah. Like

Shaun Newman [01:41:51] Those are gonna be some tough years because, you know, it's, it's gotta be think of your parents or think of your, your, your mentors or whoever who have like, you know, once upon a time I thought 36 was old as shit, or 40. And now here I sit and I'm like, man, I got the world by the tail. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:42:09] We just got started. Yeah.

Shaun Newman [01:42:10] I'm just starting to learn things and I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, my kids are gonna be the same way. They're gonna hit 18 and they're gonna get I'm outta your rules. I'm going, okay. And how as a parent can you offer support and allow 'em to have a, an open path back to at any point, but still have enough independence to go out and make mistakes and not feel like every mistake is a, you know, is a death sentence, so to speak. Oh, that's gonna be, I went, I went three provinces away to do that. Right. Like, I moved a far way away from home. I wanted nothing more than to get out from under my parents' wings. I wanted, you know, and me

Vance Crowe [01:42:47] Too, it was the only thing that mattered to me was, was leaving, was getting out. And

Shaun Newman [01:42:50] Yet in saying all that, I landed with a family 'cause I had to bill it with family that were my second family and over time surrounded myself with all these great people. And when you're surrounded by great people, they look out for you. And all of a sudden, although you're three provinces away or maybe a different country away, you're surrounded by all these people who have the best for you. And I don't know how to teach that other than to maybe model it and how you teach, treat other people.

Vance Crowe [01:43:13] Well, and this goes along with my, I'm trying, I don't even know that I have a name for it. This is some somewhat just thinking as I'm speaking out loud, but like, how to think like a king, right? Or how to think like a, like a dynasty, right? Even if it's not that you wanna be a king to rule over things. You wanna be a good king. You wanna be the type of king that makes the, the world around you better. And, and to be able to build giant, you know, renaissance cathedrals and pay for the, the paintings to be done. Are there things that I need to be thinking about that are different? Because for a long time I thought, well the way I'm gonna raise my children is the way that my wife was raised because it really worked and it, and I see the impact that it's had, which is they're Catholic and you know, just raise 'em Catholic. And even though I don't believe what's going on here, we'll get 'em in there. We'll get 'em to Sunday school, we'll listen to the Bible. There's maybe some stuff that I don't really understand why this works, but it works. But I tried that and I couldn't stomach it because I didn't believe what they were saying. And I, I, I don't mean that other people shouldn't believe what they're saying. I'm saying I didn't believe it. And so now I'm trying to figure out how can I pass on the lessons, which is what the aristocracy was doing. They plop their kids in, in church or whatever to give my children the ways of thinking and behaving that allows them to transcend and not be, it's not that I don't want them to be peasants, it's that I don't want them to be a part of the masses.

Shaun Newman [01:44:50] Critical thinking, being able to think for themselves. I know when you're talking all, I think I, my brother gave me a book London and I'm forgetting the author's name and it, it breaks down London from, you know, before it was ever formed all the way up to where it is today. Oh

Vance Crowe [01:45:07] Yeah. 'cause that, that's an old city

Shaun Newman [01:45:10] And it follows like, I don't know, five, six different families. And what I find fascinating about it is every generation is the same, same thought process. They same. 'cause they come from the same bloodline and, and they just could go down. Now they're living in different times and some of 'em have hardships and whatever, but it's the same kind of character played out over and over and over again. And so, you know, what gives me a little bit of, I don't know if hope's the right word, but a little bit of peace of mind maybe is my kids are the product of me and my wife and they're gonna see a healthy relationship and they're gonna have that DNA in their blood that is gonna want them to read and put a, a ton of, you know, prestige on being able to read and think and have a, a place to, you know, discuss debate thoughts. Certainly for getting to know me, they're gonna have all these times that I

Vance Crowe [01:46:07] Yeah. All your podcasts,

Shaun Newman [01:46:08] Right? If they really want to, they can have, you know, hopefully by that time thousands of

Vance Crowe [01:46:13] Yeah.

Shaun Newman [01:46:13] Hours of content to just listen and find out what dad was really thinking. 'cause I'm wrestling

Vance Crowe [01:46:19] If they care to know,

Shaun Newman [01:46:19] If they care to know which

Vance Crowe [01:46:20] He be blessed if they were.

Shaun Newman [01:46:21] Yeah. And so like, I don't know, I, to me, you're right with aristocracy in that they, they pass along things, but I mean, take the aristocracy for what it was. They were the powerful people. So they, they, they learned to read, they learned to understand how the game works and how money and power and blahdi da da everything and emphasis on teaching a bunch of that maybe or that it, yeah, maybe. And some of us are still catching up because for a long time, you know, peasants weren't allowed to read the Bible or just allowed to read and write and all these things. They're very powerful tools. We just, now that it's become so prolific everywhere, we kind of just throw 'em this, oh yeah, I can read and write what not a big deal. Well, it's important. And then reading is important. There's lots of great ideas that have transcended time that if you can start to understand you can implement in your life and you can push along. That's, I mean, you talk about Lindy and you talk about these different books, there's there's ideas in there that will shape your mind and change the way you think and allow you to, you know, become a better human being. And by doing that, good things will happen to you.

Vance Crowe [01:47:41] Man, I can't think of a better place to wrap up. I was gonna say I could talk to you all day, but I am gonna go ahead and talk with you all day. So let's wrap up. If people wanted to find your podcast Yeah. Where do they go to do that?

Shaun Newman [01:47:54] Sean Newman podcast. Sean with a u, so S-H-A-U-N that throws people for a loop every time. And it's on Spotify and Apple pretty much anywhere you can find your podcast and if you're

Vance Crowe [01:48:08] But not on YouTube. But

Shaun Newman [01:48:09] Not on YouTube.

Vance Crowe [01:48:09] John was banned from YouTube.

Shaun Newman [01:48:10] Yeah. And we've started uploading back on a rumble.

Vance Crowe [01:48:13] Okay.

Shaun Newman [01:48:13] Not a big Rumble fan. Like you can't even find me half the time. And I, it makes zero sense. If there's one thing, if Rumble is listening, I'd change it. Just make it easy to find people on your site. I don't understand it. And

Vance Crowe [01:48:24] You're on Twitter

Shaun Newman [01:48:25] And on Twitter. Facebook, Instagram. Yeah. S Newman podcast. You know, I I'm not a confrontational guy. I, I I love having con I'm open to discussing ideas as we've seen here, but you get on social media platforms and sometimes I just, ah, it's for the birds. But either way, thanks for having me in. It's cool to finally get to see your setup and be here and, and meet you in person and everything else,

Vance Crowe [01:48:50] Man. It feels like we've been brothers a long time. Yeah,

Shaun Newman [01:48:52] It does. Yeah. It's, it's a weird, I'll say it one more time. You know, I talked about it with Quick Dick and Twos the weird world we live in where you can have such acquaintances through social media and technology, but nothing beats in person.

Vance Crowe [01:49:05] And that is why if you're listening to this podcast and you think, man, I would love to share this idea with, with Vance or Sean, hit me up, you know, get Sean's phone number from the, from his podcast episodes, find my dms on Twitter or Facebook and like, I wanna chat, I want to hear what you thought of the episodes. I want to hear where you disagreed with me. That is the power of this. Our gravity Well grows, we get to meet all these other interesting people. So Sean Newman, let's go get some lunch.

Shaun Newman [01:49:32] Sounds good.