Former Pro Hockey Player on Meditation, Dreams, and Connecting People Who Don't Know Each Other

Shaun Newman [00:00:00] But I read te read Tim Tam's book, who I just interviewed. And in his, in his book, he said meditation was like immediate. And so I tried it and it was immediate, like I was stressed out one day. Hell, you saw me before we started here. I was stressed out and it just calms you down. And, and for me, that's a really, really good thing. Now, I'm Jeremy Ash, a retirement community, CEO, living in Eureka, Illinois. And you are listening to the Vance Crow podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:30] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today we interview former professional hockey player, now prolific podcaster, Sean Newman. Sean is a hell of a nice guy and one of those people that jumps into life with both feet. If you look into anything that he's working on, whether he is raising money, and I mean hundreds of thousands of dollars or organizing bike rides across Canada, he's one of those people that just makes you feel like not only I should be doing more, but I wanna do more. So I have a blast of a conversation with him. We talk about everything from novels and books to dreams and what it was like to be a hockey player that traveled around the world, and is he going to let his kids play hockey even though there's concussions and fights and all those things. I absolutely love Sean Newman and his podcast. So if you're done checking out this podcast, go check his out. In particular, our Vance Crow podcast Listeners might like the one with quick Dick mcd. Dick Quick, Dick has been a two-time guest on my podcast. He's been a guest on Sean's podcast, and he is that magic link that brought the two of us together that Sean and I talked quite a bit about in the end. So before we get to the interview, I wanna mention that Sean talks a couple of times about the book club, which this month we're reading Jurassic Park. And if you would like to quickly finish up that book, we're gonna talk about it on the last Sunday of the month. You can learn more by going to Vance Crowe dot com slash podcast and check out the, the link to the book club.

Vance Crowe [00:02:06] And he also talks about the Articulate Ventures network, which is a place that Sean joined and is now a full member of where we get together, we practice speaking, we share ideas, people put up business problems they're facing, they are writers', workshops. There's all kinds of things. And really it's a place where we've set it up so that you can have a little bit of shelter from the storm and be around people that are trying to achieve their goals and want some other people around that can help them. Whether it's by giving them real candid, direct feedback or just being a celebratory person that wants to support other people striving for great things. People like Sean are there. And I hope you will join us to know that it is open to any and all. And the only place we ever talk about it is here on the podcast because we're not trying for growth, we're trying to find people that really wanna be a part of a group. And I think that could be you. So consider going to network dot Articulate Ventures to sign up for the network. All right, without further ado, let's go to my interview with my man, Sean Newman. Sean Newman, welcome to the podcast.

Shaun Newman [00:03:14] Well, thanks for having me. V I'm I'm honored.

Vance Crowe [00:03:17] Well, you are a hockey player, turned podcaster, turned a giant philanthropist. You're able to generate a lot of energy to get people behind on charity. But let's start with hockey 'cause it's something that I know nothing about. If you are gonna explain the game of hockey to someone that has never seen ice before, how would you do it?

Shaun Newman [00:03:39] I, I would say it's something similar to, to soccer except on ice with a frozen puck. I mean, the rules don't go hand in hand, but you kind of get the general gist, right? We're trying to stick the rubber puck and the opposite ends goal and the team who scores more wins.

Vance Crowe [00:03:59] So you went all the way up to playing professionally. And I think the only people that do that are people that are willing to dedicate a huge amount of time and energy and their soul into it. Looking back on everything that it took to get where you got, do you have any regrets?

Shaun Newman [00:04:15] Oh God, no. No. They were, some of those were the best years of my life. Hockey showed me different parts of the world that if I'd been just, you know, traveling, I, I may have never got to see. Plus, when you play hockey for a town or a city, you're there for long periods of time. So you kinda get a feel for different parts of the world and what makes their cultures and people tick. And, you know, hockey and and essence taught me about teamwork and leadership and, and taught me some very valuable lessons. Introduced me to my wife. I mean, no, I, I hold, you know, even the success of the podcast has come from my hockey background. And so if anything there no regrets. If anything, I'm very thankful to the game of hockey and old, old timers tell me all the time now that it's my time to give back. And I didn't under, I didn't understand that Vance, until you get a little bit older, and I'm, I'm saying this now as a, as I close in on 35, what they mean is they, after you're done playing, there's this like window of opportunity where you can coach and mentor kids and, and essentially pass down those lessons that hockey has given me. And now you can give it to the next generation. And that's the culture of hockey. And it's, it's, honestly, it's a beautiful thing.

Vance Crowe [00:05:43] How far did you get in your professional career?

Shaun Newman [00:05:45] No, honestly not that far further than a lot of people. But like, you know, I think most hockey fans, you know, you're in St. Louis St. Louis Blues are the NHL. Well, if you're comparing me to the NHL, not even remotely close, that was a drop in the bucket compared to that. But I still got to spend three years in junior a, which is, they call it considerate tier two here in Canada. Very good hockey you play from, you know, was essentially 16, 17 to your 2021. And then I played four years of college and not division one, division three, but once again very good hockey in Wisconsin. And then I went over to Europe for, I call it a cup of coffee and got to play in Finland for about half a year. And it was, you know, two steps below their top league, but still very good hockey. And so I went far, but I mean, was I close to playing with Brett Hall and Wayne Gretzky and Al McInnis for the St. Louis Blues back in the day? No, but I had a lot of fun doing it.

Vance Crowe [00:06:56] Hockey's one of those sports that now that everybody talks about things like concussions, you know, it used to be when I was in high school that everybody wanted to play football and they, you know, wanted to participate in this tradition. But now I know very, very few adults that want to put their kids on a football team because of the fear of concussions. That does not appear to me to be what's going on in hockey. It doesn't appear that people that played are now worried about their kids. Am I missing something? 'cause I'm not actually acquainted with a hockey world.

Shaun Newman [00:07:27] Concussions is a huge dilemma problem across a lot of different sports. Certainly in hockey it's there, but I played all my life and I don't know, maybe one concussion maybe, but I can't remember getting a concussion. Not, you know, I mean,

Vance Crowe [00:07:46] Not that you would, but

Shaun Newman [00:07:47] I just mean like, I never got my bell rung hard enough where that happened. Now there's certain guys that yeah, have had several have to leave the game because of it, but you know, football's a sport that's helmet on helmet, helmet on helmet after play, after play after play where hockey, you know, there's big hits, but even the big hits, it's a, now it's even more of Anness game where it's speed and skill and the hitting just has taken a back seat. And everybody always looked at the fights and said, that's where the concussions from come from. I've been in a handful of fights and never ever had any issues. And so to me, concussions are, yeah, they're sure they're relevant in hockey and they're trying to help reduce as much as they can, but lots of the concussions in hockey come off harmless plays. And so as a parent, I'm not concerned about my, my kids ever playing hockey. I, I think the, the value of playing the game greatly outweighs the risk.

Vance Crowe [00:08:41] Yeah. It, it almost seems to me that there's way more tradition that remains in hockey that just doesn't exist in the same way in American sports the way that it did maybe just 10 or 15 years ago. Not, not just with hockey. I mean, it seems like in the US people have transferred to different sports. So if you were a football player before, now you're encouraging your kids to play soccer. If you were playing soccer now you want them to run, you know, like further and further away from what they're doing. But when I watch hockey players, it seems like it is a quintessential part of their becoming a parent is when they strap their kids on skates and, and start teaching 'em how to move around the ice.

Shaun Newman [00:09:20] Two years old, we had our oldest in skates and you know, he didn't skate by any stretch of the imagination, but yeah, I, I don't know, but I kind listen, I up here in Canada, it's, it, it's life hockey is life, right? Like I I, there are sports that are definitely gaining a lot of traction in Canada, but in small town, you know, I'm right on the border of Alberta, Saskatchewan, where for eight months of the year it's cold, you know, for probably six or seven months of the year, you can literally pick any pond you want and go skate on it. It's just, it's a, it's a pastime that's ingrained in our society and it's, it's just every kid tries their hand at hockey. Some are better, some are worse. And, and for the most part, I mean, what it provides kids is an opportunity to be a part of a team and around like-minded individuals. And, and I don't know, it's an unreal sport.

Vance Crowe [00:10:13] It, it strikes me now that I've gotten to know a lot more Canadians over the last few years I've gotten to travel there, I've gotten to meet you and several others that fighting is a part of hockey. Like, it's one of those things that when you meet Canadians, you don't think of them as fighters, but you, you know, people like you had said, watch hockey, hoping that something's gonna spark off a fight. Why is fighting a part of that game the way that it isn't in other sports?

Shaun Newman [00:10:41] It's, it's funny, you can take the nicest individual Vance, right? Put Vance Crowe walking around, is he gonna go club somebody? No, you put a set of skates on him and lots of people talk about how the mentality changes, right? There's a, there's an aspect of respect in, in the game. And so if you aren't abiding by, you know, so-called respect, one of the ways to solve that is to drop the MITs and dust them up and, and do that, right? It's another way of showing you're sticking up for your team and you're a part of the team, right? Like somebody gets run over or some guy's being rough on your players and, and you wanna stick up for 'em. It's just part of the game. Now I will say like, fighting is quickly, not that the old guard wants to see it go anywhere, but it's quickly leaving the game. There's hardly, you know, as, as much fighting as there once was. But yeah, it's, I don't know, it's a, it's a form of like, how, how far back do you go back and gladiators were a thing and people showed up to watch them duke it out, right? Like it's part of our society and it's just a form of the game that was culturally accepted and has now just got a little bit of a taint to it. And they're just trying to find a way to gracefully let it slide away into the past. And, you know, if a guy drops his mitts every 10th game, that's okay, but we really don't want to encourage it, right? And we really don't want anybody getting hurt from it.

Vance Crowe [00:12:09] The other day I was strumming through Twitter and there's this guy named Rob Henderson who I've had on the podcast, but he's just this great, he, he tweets all these psychological papers and ideas and one of the ones that he posted was a psychologist saying, we've all stood on the edge of a mountain with another person and had this inkling of an idea, I kind of wanna push that other guy. And when I first read that, I was like, no, that's why I don't like to stand on the edge of a mountain with somebody else. But then you start thinking about other scenarios, really, the psychologist was saying, we have this demon inside of us or this nature that says that's some chance for you to take advantage of this other person. You're much stronger and they're much weaker and you could do something. I don't know if other people feel this, but I definitely like, have had that. Like I could just, you know, grab this guy and crush him, but then you're like, no, what am I doing? Why am I thinking this way? And that kind of is what hockey seems like to me. Like, you know, I, there's a guy skating on there and if I clip him, he is going to go flying across the ice and hit the wall.

Shaun Newman [00:13:15] Well, I don't know, it was, it was, that's one way to win, right? Hockey is a, just like any other game, you wanna win, don't you wanna win Vance? Don't you wanna see your team win? Well, one of the ways is you be the meanest, toughest sons of bitches out there and you walk in anyone's building and you show them no respect. And if they want to go, you drop the mitts and you beat the crap out of 'em. And, and that that's the way it's right and in the game for a long time that was accepted. And so, you know, instead of building skilled teams, you'd have a few guys that could put the puck in the net and the rest of your team was built to withstand the other team's grit and determination. Right? And that's, that's fine. But now the game is changing. It, it really is. It's not nearly like that anymore. But I don't know, like you talking about battling with your inner demons on whether to be good or bad. I think we all got that. Like absolutely we do.

Vance Crowe [00:14:09] The, the, the striking thing, when I was looking into you, I was doing some research 'cause I was like, man, Sean Newman has this podcast and if you listen to it, he asks some of the most interesting and interested questions I've ever heard. So I was like digging through the internet and one of the things that I found about you was there, there kept being people like Sean Newman hockey player is a Taurus. And I was like, what in the world does his horoscope have to do with anything? Is this like a are you familiar with this?

Shaun Newman [00:14:38] No. So

Vance Crowe [00:14:39] There's a bunch of people that talk about you are a Taurus and that your style was very much that way. You are loyal and strong, but then when the anger comes out, you are like a raging bull. And that, that that's the, you know, the mechanism that you used. And I thought, I didn't realize that as astrology was so closely tied to the game of hockey.

Shaun Newman [00:15:01] Well, you're the first person to bring that up, Vance. I, I've never heard that. I, it maybe like

Vance Crowe [00:15:08] Two pages into a Google search where you, where those stuff come up for you. Just so you're

Shaun Newman [00:15:12] Aware. Well, I, I appreciate the first couple comments and I, I know I've inherited my father, which is you put skates on me and I just put Vance here on my team. I'm protective. I i I wanna, I don't want anybody get hurt and I wanna make sure that, you know, we pull together as a group. The quickest way to pull together as a group is to stick up for one another, right? It shows camaraderie and it brings everybody tight. And then as soon as you do that, nothing's gonna break you. And you go into, you know, I put in quotes war because it's not actual war, but it, it's a form of competition where you're all with a common goal and a common cause. So yeah, I mean everybody, all my good friends know me as, as an emotional guy. I'm guided by emotion and I think probably a lot of us are, we like to, I like to control it a little bit 'cause I don't wanna burst out all the time, but that's funny. Taurus. Yeah, I'm a Taurus. I I don't know that that's a new one.

Vance Crowe [00:16:11] You know, when you talk about being on a team and the, you think about being a professional player, right? Where players get moved around and suddenly you went from the team that you were against to now being a team that you're on. W was that a difficult transition to like switch up or, you know, because somebody else is deciding which team you're on and how your loyalties lie. How, what was that like? I've always wondered that.

Shaun Newman [00:16:34] So you're asking when you play for a team for X and then after year or two you switch to the next team. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:16:40] You're traded or you're, you're moved on. Like you gotta, so now you're playing with a different set of colors, one that you used to hate.

Shaun Newman [00:16:47] So one of the things, I don't know if I hold, put a feather in my cap or what is I, I never got traded. It's funny that the Taurus comment there, right? Like, I find myself extremely loyal. So belief is a, a funny, has a funny impact on people. And it's been one of the things that I've learned from doing the podcast is as a young guy, I was told I was good enough to play better hockey, but no team ever believed in it. So people would tell me you could play good enough hockey, but when it came to try out and get cut and all that, all the coaches said the same thing. You can't tell this maybe sitting over their van. I'm only five seven, let's call it a pretty small guy. And in hockey that gets overlooked very quick. And what I found in hockey, specifically hockey players, is when a coach believes in you, we want you, we want Vance Crowe to come play with us. And this is why that statement is invaluable. Like, I mean, they will run through a brick, I'll run through a brick wall if if that's told, just take our relationship Vance. I didn't know you from a hole in the ground. What was it like two months ago? And, and now look at how much I'm interacting with you because you go, I really like what you're doing. And I'm like, I'm sure. Like, that's great. And so that belief is very powerful. So when you talk about switching teams, I, I put a feather in my cap every team I went to. Sure.

Shaun Newman [00:18:17] I had moments where maybe I wanted out, maybe I wanted to go somewhere else, but I never did. I played for every team through junior three years. My max was three years. I played all three years for the same junior team. And in college, four years never switched in pro I only played a cup of coffee, but same team. And when I came back to Saskatchewan, nine years with the same team l eight years with the same defense partner until he got into a pretty bad accident and could no longer play hockey. And so that's how I function. I think that's probably how a lot of people function now. So switching teams, you know, it's all about the leadership of the group, the locker room, everything else. 'cause you know, I, I hopped in Vance Crow's group and it's a really interesting, it was a really interesting dynamic that immediately makes you wanna pull for it. And so in my world, all the teams I've ever been on, for whatever reason, maybe I have some of the part to play in that you get in there and you see the good, you follow the good and that leads you to where you want to go.

Vance Crowe [00:19:23] I completely agree with you about people seeing things inside of you, making those things be able to come out. And the example I always talk about is I had a mentor named Pete, he's 101 years old right now. And when he has another birthday, every time he has a birthday, there are so many people that call him, and I've literally been at his apartment when this is happening. He has to hold two phones, he holds one and he's talking and then he has to say, hang on, I'm gonna take this other call. And he does this and the re it like switches up and starts talking with this person and says, Hey, I gotta let you go. And everybody knows that they're just a part of the gears that make up the machinery that is Pete. But when I look at it really deeply and say, how did he do that? It was because every single person that he talked to, he believed in 100% people that I would write off and be like, Pete, what is your deal? Why do you, this person is like, you know, a waste of time, but he would see things in them and bring it out. And I, I actually, I think that in you, like you, when I listen to your podcast, that is actually what you do. You believe in people so much that it allows you to be interested in them in a way that I think is deeply uncommon.

Shaun Newman [00:20:34] Well, a I appreciate that compliment that that's a very, I hold that compliment probably in some of the highest I've ever heard. I don't know any other way to be Vance. So I can't remember what I'd read a while back and I can't remember who the hell wrote it or said it, but it was about, you know, it is just the way I look at life. There's, there's two ways to, to live life, right? Po I always say positivity spreads just as fast as negativity you choose. And when it comes to people, I believe firmly everybody's capable of good. And that's the way I approach everyone is that they, they're all living their life. I think they have something in them that can, can, can be pushed that way. And I think you can learn from everyone. It doesn't mean that I'm, you know, if if you, you fool me once so to speak, right? Like, okay, that's fair, I'll take that. And I add that in the docket too. But you know, in the podcast, if you approach everybody with the, the mindset that they're not complete scum of the earth and that they want to do good and, and everything else, you'd be amazed at what they'll, what they'll say and, and what they're thinking about and the lessons you can pick up from on it. I gotta ask with Pete, have you interviewed him?

Vance Crowe [00:21:48] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so I've interviewed him twice and like, basically by the time we got done with the second one, he was like, all right, I'm done. I don't wanna talk about myself anymore. And that's totally Pete, like the, the thing that makes him who he is, is that you only get snippets of Pete because for the most part he's curious about you. And I find that he's almost like a psychoanalyst like from the Freud school in the sense that he's very rarely giving you advice. He's very rarely pulling up his own stories. He's just asking you the things that you should be asking yourself. And when I like really try and help another person, and I'm, and I get away from my own ego that I'm like, oh, I know what you should do. You should do this thing. And I just channel the inner Pete, the, the voice that he's left indelibly in my brain. I find that my, my help is a lot deeper because it's really not about, I think most people know the answers to the questions that they have. They just need somebody to ask them so that they're willing to take the time to really enunciate what it is that they already know

Shaun Newman [00:22:56] A hundred percent. Like sometimes you know the answer, you just don't wanna admit it. 'cause you know what it means you have to do, right?

Vance Crowe [00:23:04] Yeah, there's there. So right now I'm, I'm waiting with bated breath. I've written this company that's in Spain and they do this virtual reality psych program where you go in, you get to choose your psychologist, and you go in and you talk to that, that figure. So you've got your VR headset on and you walk in and you sit down and then you talk with the person, and then you wait a day and you come back and you put the headset back on. And now instead of being the person that is coming to the psychologist instead, like, you know, you are now Freud and you are listening to yourself, and then you have an opportunity to give yourself feedback. And the initial studies that they've published on this rate, that the, the, the difference, the impact is actually higher than when people go to train psychologists. So just listening to your own problems and giving advice to yourself is vastly out competing people with years and years and years of psychotherapy training. And I, so to me, this is like something that's obvious, but I'm really glad somebody's proving it. So I'm really trying to get on there, study to see if I can't bring that to a VN and, and let all of us try it out.

Shaun Newman [00:24:16] That'd be, that would be absolutely, like, that would be a lot of fun. When, when I, when I first came back, it's a question I should probably ask more of the, the hockey guys that I deal with. But there's this common, when you've played, you know, anywhere between, up until you're 20 years old to call it 40, let's say it is an average lifespan of a hockey career when all you've done for all those years is push yourself and traveled and played in cities and played hockey. And that's all, you know, when you come out of it, there's like this, this void of like, now what? And I say all the time when I first got back, you could do anything, right? Like you have the world by the nuts, so to speak. It can go anywhere you want, but that's almost overwhelming. And so when I first came back, I, I, I started work with my, with my brothers and my dad's company and just, you know, as a job, I just needed to make some money. And it was like two years in I realized like, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. It has nothing to do with family, it just has to do with the work. Like, it just doesn't get me outta bed in the morning. And so I hired a career coach, which I mean, a career coach has become uber popular now and lots of people are doing it the time it was like, it was kinda, I was outta my comfort zone. But what I found amazing about the entire process was basically it was a sounding board because she really didn't say that much.

Shaun Newman [00:25:48] It was a safe space where I could say whatever I wanted to say, hear myself say it out loud and go, well that's a weird thought, but, and then try and make sense of what you've said and then do it. So what you're talking about there is exactly that. And instead of just having somebody voice prompt you, you now get to criticize what or critique what you've said. I think that's brilliant actually. It's, it's why writing is so powerful, isn't it? So you could write it out, expend the effort of writing on something and then see what you've written and go, huh, there's something there, or that is absolutely weird. Why would I ever think that? And you can just almost immediately expunge it from your mind. Like, oh, get that outta here.

Vance Crowe [00:26:29] Yeah, I think with writing, it's one of those things that when you start to develop the habit, it's not like your life transforms immediately. But what happens is if you've started to do it for a while and then you stop, all of a sudden you notice the absence of it. And it's like one of those things that like, it's really hard to put your finger on how getting those ideas down, how like putting them out there or or making them concrete is really gonna benefit you and it changes you. So indelibly such as a, like a part of who you are that you can't really detect the change until you're like, oh, I don't have time to write. And then you find yourself being like, chaotic and moody or I don't know, that's the way I feel, you know, like unable to get myself unstuck. And then I start thinking like, oh, I need to go do something more drastic when really the answer is no. Just get up 10 minutes earlier and write, write your shit down

Shaun Newman [00:27:24] A hundred percent. Actually, one of the things I gotta credit to you is by bringing me into the, the book club. I'm already a part of a book club, and so when you're like, you wanna come, and I was like, do I have time to read another book? Like I gotta be honest, like four years ago I was hardly reading anymore. I, I'd loved reading growing up, but, you know, kids and work and I mean, I don't have to explain it, it's, it's, it's a time commitment, but I'm like, you know what, I'll give it a shot. And so I forget what her first book was now, but it was good. And then the next one was Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court. And I was like, we're gonna read this really? And then I read it and I was like, actually, that, that was pretty good. So when you suggested Jurassic Park, I was kind of like a, I didn't realize there was a Jurassic Park book, but two, I was like, like the movie, the Hollywood movie, why would we read that? And what Jurassic Park has proven to me, and I kind of heard about this and I just, I don't know if I didn't open my eyes to advance, was, is like, there can be really profound things and like, not the simplest, not that Jurassic Park is simple by any stretch, but like dinosaurs coming back to the world is a pretty simple sci-fi idea. But in that book, there was a couple ideas that were just like, wow, that's pretty cool. And, and I'd I've read like Jordan Peterson, a couple others talk about art and, and how people get across their ideas through their own form.

Shaun Newman [00:28:56] And I didn't understand that until your book Jurassic Park, well not your book, but the club deciding to read Jurassic Park and you know, like what a what a just a, I can't even put my, my finger on it. It just, it just hit me over the head reading Jurassic Park, how in my mind, a very simple book, A cool little I'll listen along and the dra dinosaurs will be back, could have these ideas that are just so I had to, I had to write 'em down, finish the book, and then go back to each one of them separately to like just dig into 'em a little bit more and be like, huh. Yeah, that's good.

Vance Crowe [00:29:34] Yeah, I'm, I'm right now really into this author named Eric Ho and I'll have him on the podcast. He is writing, he writes all about consciousness and one of the things that he points out about books is that in a movie you have to infer what the, the characters are thinking based on their actions that are overt. So if you have a character that is like really angry, they have to show anger and they have to show it vividly enough that the entire audience can get it. But, you know, human emotions are really complicated. Sometimes you show emotion when really what you're feeling is fear. So how does an actor, how does a movie show the both the emotional state of what the action is and also the thinking that goes behind it. Whereas in a book, you can add in those lines that add the layers of complexity into what is going on with that character. And so for the first time only in a book or in somebody telling you a story, can you leave your conscious observation of the other human's behaviors and actually inhabit the consciousness of other people. And that's one of those things that once you start to, once that starts to click in reading books becomes like more than just the two dimensions on the, on the, of the letters on the page. And, and far, far more interesting than the movie or the television show.

Shaun Newman [00:30:58] Absolutely. Well I just, I go back to, I just didn't realize you could pick up so many good things from a book like Jurassic Park. I always assumed it had to come from, you know, I'm a big fan of Jordan Peterson. Really, when you read that book, you have to put your mind in his mind, you know, he's guiding you along this path where it's gonna be like, oh yeah, that is a good idea. Where something like DSS Park comes in like these, you know, Malcolm giving these long intellectual rants, so to speak, but in there is absolute gold. And if you, you know, in the movie, I I, I almost wanna go back and watch a movie 'cause I remember his character and I remember him having some pretty good, you know, him being one of the best characters in the movie, obviously. But I don't remember ever going like, wow, that was a really good idea. And maybe that's because you're caught up on the visual and not paying attention to the exact words that are being used. But in a book, it, it is just so evident and right there.

Vance Crowe [00:31:57] Yeah. And in the, in the movie, they cre you know, in order to be able to get the masses to be able to understand what's going on, they have to put it into like a, a hero's narrative arc that is simple enough for everybody to get on. So you've got the archeologist that you know, doesn't really like kids and the kids are following him around. And then, you know, that, that brings up this kind of, should I be stuck digging up bones of the past or should I be, you know, thinking about maybe getting married and having children? Whereas the book that is not there at all, like, I mean, yes, he takes care of the kids, but the, the, the nature under which you can have the hero's journey and all of the different characters arcs are far more complicated. And Eric Hoel, I, I heard him talking and he was saying, you know, that you can do this with television. And the Sopranos are actually a really good example of this. They were able to figure out, to show the consciousness of Tony, what's going on with him. I don't know, were you a Sopranos fan? Did you watch this show?

Shaun Newman [00:32:54] I'm gonna be honest, I only watched like handful episodes. I've never actually watched it through.

Vance Crowe [00:32:59] So that's a, that's an addictive show. But one of the reasons it's so addictive is by having a therapist for the mobster to go talk with you now can get into his consciousness. Now you can start understanding, hey, he showed that he was really angry, but really he's conflicted or he's worried about his mother. And so there are, there are ways to make a movie match up to what's going on with a book. But like the book can do it so much easier. You know, you can, you can say, oh, she shifted un you know, uncomfortably as she listened to him, you know, try and seduce her and all of a sudden you're like, wow, I understand all of these different motives and these different things. Whereas in a movie, you have to like zoom in on her shifting uncomfortably. The guy has to be really overt in his advances in order for you to understand it. And if you're not, those movies get pushed aside, like the coach that doesn't believe in you and, and, and you know, the art house film that nobody understands 'cause the director was being too subtle.

Shaun Newman [00:33:58] That's fair. I tell you what IIII just come back to some days I wonder if I live under a rock fence, right? Like, or if I'm just slow or if I've just never paid attention to it. And in the last, I don't know, it's just a different stage of life I guess. But in the last several years I've started to pick up on things that were right there all the time, but my brain just overlooked them all the time. And now that you see 'em, it's, you can't, you can't unsee it,

Vance Crowe [00:34:25] You know? So speaking of not being able to unsee it, I'm, I did a little bit more stocking of you, you know, I really wanted to make this interview go well. So I found your, you know, some of your social media, some of your Facebook, one of the things that I observed about your life is that you seem to jump in with both feet. You know, I see you dressing up for what assumed to be as like Halloween with your kids. I see you posing for photos where you get in the in, you're in the middle and you've got your arms raised and you're smiling. And it just makes me feel like, man, I wish that I could jump into life with both feet that way. That that's, that's what it appears to me that, that you do is that you just, you just completely, you're like, Hey, the water's cold. I'm gonna jump in and and embrace the fact that it's cold.

Shaun Newman [00:35:13] Isn't that the way you should live life? I mean, I would encourage everybody to do that. I think too often, and I, at times I'm, I'm the same timid with different things. But I mean, when it comes to life, the best way to learn is, is by getting in there and getting involved. Not by standing back and watching the game for, you know, a year, 10 hours, whatever it is. It's like, no, I wanna be in there. I, I wanna be involved even if I, I make an ass of myself. I wanna be involved. And I, I found, I went for a bike this morning, man. So I'm training for this, this bike trip. So I'm up at five in the morning and it is, I don't know what it is in Fahrenheit, but in Celsius it feels like minus nine. So it is cold. And I went, I went yesterday morning and I learned a lesson. I got turned around after about 12 minutes 'cause I couldn't feel my hands anymore. I was biking in shorts. That was a bad idea. So today I got a two on, I got a big jacket on, I got pants on, I never bike pants. And I got big gloves on. I'm like, I don't care. I am going to make sure that I'm warm today. And so I roll up to a light and I look over and there's like this guy staring at me at five in the morning. I'm like, who the hell is this guy doing? And I'm like, you know, for a second it kind of bothered me. And then I'm like, what the hell does it matter? Like, I look like a, a moron, that's fine. I know what I'm doing here. And, and away you go. And a lot of the times in anything in life, when you're the guy jumping in the water for, for the border city connects a few weeks ago where I pedaled into the water, right?

Shaun Newman [00:36:52] A lot of people be like, oh, I don't wanna do that. And, and maybe there was some embarrassment on my part of like, I wonder how the video looks or whatever. But at the end of the day, that's in my head, most people are looking at it going, oh, I wish I could just do that. And I think anybody can do that. They just gotta get over this like a little fear thing that says everybody's gonna judge me. Oh, screw what people think. Like everything's about trying to, you know, social media does it so well, I just look at all the, the negative co things that come with it, which is like likes and comments and whatever else. I just wanna live life. And if I'm having fun with it and you know, who doesn't wanna dress up for Halloween? Just 'cause I'm a grown ass adult doesn't mean I don't wanna strap on, you know, I did Oscar the Grouch one year with the wife and the kids and, and the kids think it's awesome and they, they see it and they're like, yeah, that's awesome. And you know, I went to a dance class, my daughter's in dance. Do you think I feel comfortable doing like ballet, dance, whatever with my 2-year-old? Hell no, but I wanna be the dad dancing and not the one sitting on the sideline because kids pick up on that stuff. And I want my daughter to know that I'm here with you and I'm okay looking like an ass dancing with my 2-year-old or 3-year-old now, right? Like, I'm okay with that. And I don't know that that's the way I live life. I, I wish more people would live life that way.

Vance Crowe [00:38:17] Well, I think that's why you've been able to make a dent in the world, right? You, you set out to do a fundraiser where you were gonna raise $50,000 and then you did it. And then, then instead of being like, well let's lay raise $60,000, you're like, oh, the next year I'm gonna raise, what was it, $150,000, right? It was something crazy. And then you did it again.

Shaun Newman [00:38:39] I I gotta be very, you're talking about the live stream. So we did it for the hospital. I, the hospital's been very good to me. I'm sure the hospital's been very good to a lot of people,

Vance Crowe [00:38:52] But

Shaun Newman [00:38:52] The first year was, can you imagine this idea to raise 50 grand? Sean's gonna talk like this to people. And every once in a while he is gonna turn the screen and have somebody over here and I'm gonna talk to him like this and we're gonna see if we can raise money. And we raised 50 grand and everybody was kinda like, oh, guess that kind of works. So the next year, Malcolm rag key here in town, who's the, the CEO of the health Foundation said, let's raise 200,000. I, I like, I was like, what you wanna do what? And we raised 350,000 and I was, it was just like, I can't take all the credit for that. Hell, I'll take little credit for that. Like we had a great team working around, we had more irons in the fire to begin with and, and just the way the community pulled in was amazing. But what it does teach me is you wanna make an impact on the world. You wanna put a dent in the world, go do something and then, you know, do it well and tell people about it, right? Like, that's what we're doing with this bike trip where I've started out and I'm like, well, maybe I can, you know, we both know quick dick, I'm gonna do a road trip to quick dick. No, I'm gonna bike to quick dick and I'm gonna try and raise some money. And that's just keeps snowballing into, now there's a group of six of us gonna do it. And initially I was like, you know how if I raise 10 grand, great, well, we've already raised 35 and we haven't even stepped a pedal on the bike yet. And I'm going like, I'm trying not to stress myself out. Like it's fun. But it's like, holy crap.

Shaun Newman [00:40:24] Now you're, now you're starting to do something that everybody's gonna notice. And I appreciate the, the comment that you think I'm making a dental in the world. I'm just doing what I know best and that's trying to bring some smiles, some positivity with this bike trip. We're gonna try and help some kids out. And kids are near and dear to my heart. I got three of 'em and it breaks my heart every time I hear that kids out there don't get what they need. Like, I, that's tough.

Vance Crowe [00:40:50] Yeah, I I I'm struck by the fact that you actually take swings at things, right? Like, actually as I'm looking at all of your stuff, I think, man, I, I really want to, I, I really feel like a good example is just jump in the water the way that you do and how do you do it, man? I mean, you've got three kids, you're a salesman, you've also got a podcast. Like how in the world do you find the time and the energy and the sanity to be able to get it all done?

Shaun Newman [00:41:21] Well, you know, my, you know, my sanity side, because you just heard me before I started this, what I was doing, I stumbled upon meditation. I just literally, like in the last two weeks, I always look for things vance where, and I should have asked you this, right? Have you ever stumbled across something where you did it once and you immediately notice a difference? And I don't know if you have, but I read te read Tim Tam's book who I just interviewed, and in his, in his book, he said meditation was like immediate. And so I tried it and it was immediate. Like I was stressed out one day, hell, you saw me before we started here, I was stressed out and it just calms you down. And, and for me, that's a really, really good thing. Now I, as for everything else, how do I make time for everything? I don't know. I, I, I have a wonderful wife, like wonderful, I run everything by her that way. I never wanna lose my home life. And then as soon as that starts, I'm gonna pull back on so many things, it'll probably, you know, shake some heads of what the heck's he doing. But I never wanna lose that. And the base of me is my family. And as long as that's healthy, she supports in what I do. And so when I pass ideas by her, she's like, you're an idiot, but if that's what you really want to do, then go do it. Because a happy Sean is good for not only society, but for us at home. Your kids see it. I see it. And so she lets me get away with a lot that a lot of couples maybe don't.

Shaun Newman [00:42:54] But in saying that, I was up at four 30 this morning out for a bike back home helping kids out the door to work here tonight. I got a meeting at eight 30 at night and it is just, I don't know, I like being busy. I really like being busy. Do I need my down nights? Yes. But I don't need as many as maybe people think

Vance Crowe [00:43:21] Are when, when you say meditation, talk to me a little bit about what that means to you.

Shaun Newman [00:43:28] Well, I downloaded an app Headspace, and it's the one on Netflix who has the big documentary. And I didn't know that, and I kind of started watching on Netflix, but it's just, I don't, I don't know how to, I haven't dug into what meditation is or what it's supposed to do for you. For me, it's four minutes a day. I flick on the app, this guy talks to me in a soothing voice and he just says, you know, essentially breathe deep, watch how you breathe, focus on that. When my brain runs off 10 times, he brings me back in and it's just a way to refocus on what I'm trying to, you know, be impactful on in the next hour and the next five hours. And for me, that's, that's really beneficial because my brain can get going seven different ways where I don't accomplish anything actually. I just stress myself out and nothing happens.

Vance Crowe [00:44:23] Yeah. Meditation for me was the, the really forced me to have the realization that there are all these voices in my head, things that prompt me to do stuff. Stuff that dissuades me from doing stuff. Stuff that, voices that, you know, get me to give into my vice and that I don't control them. And that really gave me a very different feeling of the sense of self. Like who are you? If there are voices that say like, Hey, we should go do that, or Oh, you don't have to worry about that, or, oh, look what that person has that you don't have. And the fact that you can't just be like, quiet down voice, I'm trying to work here because you have this like, you know, sense of consciousness, this sense I am me. And yet there are these other things that participate in who, who, who me. Is that like, it really starts helping you to understand, like for me, meditation was the, the best imagery I can give is I thought that the vestibule was the entire cathedral. And then you start realizing like, wait, no, if I follow any one of these voices down to their different area, I realize this is an enormous building of the self, of which I know just the tiniest little aspect of, and I would never have gotten there had I not first had meditation where I started to realize like, there are these other voices.

Shaun Newman [00:45:51] Yeah. And you, you forgot one voice in there, the bitch voice, the voice that says you're tired. Why don't you just lay on the couch?

Vance Crowe [00:45:59] Or

Shaun Newman [00:45:59] It's cold outside. Why don't you just, you know, stay inside. And, and Jocko, I think it's Jocko Wilnick, he's the guy who, who probably has coined it lately in, in, you know, popular culture. But believe me, that voice talks to me all the time and, and recognizing it for what it is doesn't mean I beat it all the time, but I beat it more than I lose to it. And I agree with you, like you just got, you got different things going on in your head and it's, and that's okay. And meditation probably that's a, a chunk of its messages. It's okay, right? Like just recognize it and carry on with life.

Vance Crowe [00:46:41] Yeah. The Steven Pressfield says that that voice that's like telling you it's okay calls it the voice of resistance. And I have found that just by being able to name that voice just by, or the, you know, you called it the bitch, right? Like, just by being able to be like, Hey, whoa, whoa, no, get outta here. That's, that's not, we don't wanna do that. We the other voices wanna do other stuff that's not that. But I, I'm totally, I I'm, I'm with you on the fact that meditation was really important and I kind of ebb and flow on the different ways that I do it. And I'm glad to hear anybody starting it because it's like a hell of a, it's a hell of a drug man. I could tell you that

Shaun Newman [00:47:23] It is, you know, I was brought up in a, in a, I dunno, Christian family went to church all the time. Not a specific denomination, like, just like believe in God and read the Bible and be good to people and whatever. But what I struggled with probably, well I don't know into my adult life was I never talked to God. I don't even know, you know, how what the heck would that even look like? And if he did talk to you, would you think you were crazy? And like, whoa, that is a out-of-body experience per se. Meditation is the closest thing I've ever had to spiritual where it's just like, wow, you can feel that energy, like you can once a day, you can feel it. And I don't know what that is, but it's noticeable. And I look for those things all the time because I think too much in our, too much of the world is moving so fast you'd never even be able to, you know, stop and smell the roses per, per se. But there's very few things that if you did stop and did it, you could notice it immediately.

Vance Crowe [00:48:34] As you think about, you know, the, the prayer or the, you know, the greater the divine, any of these things. And you talked about wanting to pass lessons on your children, your 2-year-old daughter dancing. When you think about dying or no longer being here, what do you want to be remembered about you?

Shaun Newman [00:48:56] I don't, I don't know, Vance, that's a, that's a large question. I just want, I just want people to, you know, when I go, I want people to come together, probably have one too many beers, enjoy the night and, and celebrate it. I'm hoping I give him something to celebrate, right? Like that was, that was a hell of a life he lived and not, you know, he was taken too soon or, you know, all, or, or you know, like, man, that was, that was a long 10 years he had at the end it was like, no, I'd rather the other way. I, I would rather when I go, don't worry about if it was too soon or not. In the time I had, I gave it everything. And I hope for my kids, well I know this in my kids, they got part of me sitting there because everyone I, that talks to me about, my oldest has said he is identical to me at that age, which means okay, there's a little Sean already in the making and I can already see it in my other two kids. So that means all, like, Sean's gonna carry on, you know, not a obviously not me, but part of me is there. And if we can continue to do that, you know, like that's a lot of that. That's pretty cool. And as for, you know, when I'm gone, I just hope people enjoy the time that I had, I had on.

Shaun Newman [00:50:27] 'cause I'm, I'm loving every minute I'm here,

Vance Crowe [00:50:30] Man. That's the one of the most humble and like profound answers I think I've ever heard to that, that, that I think there are a lot of people that think, oh, I want my legacy to live on or I want the, the, you know, but we are all kind of clear if you get your name to live on past three generations, like yeah. That, that's about as far as you're gonna get. And so to have it be like people come together and they're, they're, they have a drink too many and celebrate the time. That is, that is awesome. I, I think that one of the gifts that you're giving your children and it's an investment and, and you're doing it for other reasons, is your podcast because like who you are comes out so clearly in these interviews, not just with hockey players, like, you know, I think you started out as a, as a hockey podcast and then wanted to interview some people with wisdom and then kind of spread out to some adventurers and just kind of different characters out in the world. But like your podcast is an amazing menagerie of, of interesting characters. What, what are you pulling outta that? Why is it worth the time and the energy you're putting into it?

Shaun Newman [00:51:38] Well, I enjoy talking to people as you can probably tell when COVID when COVID hit, I had about a month and a half where I was doing about a podcast a week, which to a lot of people seems like a lot. And I was going into a dark place and I, I don't know what I mean by dark place, I don't mean like, I don't mean like I was gonna do harm to myself or others or anything like that. I just mean like de depressed was gonna, you know, be more negative than positive, let's say. And so what I did was, is I kind of flipped that on its side and chose right then and there I was gonna do more podcasting. So now I've been doing two a week for over a year. And for me, the podcast is something that just I get excited for every single day, right? Like, I, I, I enjoy doing this. I enjoy, I never thought I could enjoy something as much as hockey until I stumbled on podcasting and interviewing people and, and finding different people. And, and so to me that's, that's what the podcast gives me all the time. It gives me lessons to learn and think about and, and then to research and force me to read and, and get better. And that's been the, I don't think that was the goal in the beginning. In the beginning it was like, let's have a fun and see where this kind of goes. Right? And you're right, it started out with a lot of hockey people, but I had the forethought at the start Vance to name it my name, so that it could never, ever, ever get classified or pigeonholed into.

Shaun Newman [00:53:17] It has to be one thing. It's going where I want it to go, which I probably think will make it, if it, it ever becomes bigger than it is, it's gonna take time because you're not doing the same interview over and over again. But for me, that's okay because now I get to take it wherever I want it to go. It led me to Vance Crowe. I never would've thought that. And if I'd done just hockey players, who knows, maybe I would've did Quick Dick, but maybe not right? And, you know, meditation, I would've never did Tim Tam shero, he's a, he's a jazz musician. And yet look what that's done for me. And I just, to me, that's what the podcast is doing for me all the time. It doesn't mean every interview is impactful like that, but when you culminate 'em over a year or two years, or hopefully, you know, the next 10, the impact will be pretty momentous, I would assume.

Vance Crowe [00:54:09] Yeah. It's, I I think you're creating a gravity well, where you're, you're there and other meteors that are flying by kind of fall into where you're at and can get into your orbit. And I mean, you're exactly right. Had you and I not met then there wouldn't have been a conversation between you and Rob Long and then the, you wouldn't have met Steve Barber and then the conversation that you and him had about Bitcoin machines I would never have heard. So like for me, it's one of those things that anytime you start getting like, I wish some objective measurement looked different, you have to like stop and say, yeah, but look at the crazy different things that happened in your life because of this. And it's like, I, I always get, I don't know if you're like this, but I get stuck in the Yeah, yeah. I know about all the qualitative things, but what I want is some numbers to look at.

Shaun Newman [00:55:04] Well, I was gonna say, the one you forget in that line of, of Rob or you to Rob to Steve is quick dick.

Vance Crowe [00:55:13] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Have I

Shaun Newman [00:55:14] Ever, have I ever, I maybe I told it when we, when we, when we first did, when I interviewed you, but when I first thought of you interviewing Quick Dick, I had doubts about that. And it's one of the reasons why Quick Dick, it has probably, I have no idea. But by doing that interview, the first one specifically, the first one, and meeting somebody like quick who me and him have had this weird relationship where we've never met in person, but at the same time, now I'm gonna bike to him and do a fundraiser. Like it's just, it's almost absurd to think about, but by me trusting my gut and going, no, I, I really wanna do this, and if it sucks, it sucks. So be it. That's fine. Has led me down this path of I'm gonna do Vance Crow, and if it sucks, it sucks, then that's okay. And look at, look at where that's gone, right? And I have done interviews Vance where, not that I'm not proud of 'em at the end, but weren't what I thought they were gonna be. And that's okay. They're just one in a long line, right? And then I've done lots like you or Rob that all of a sudden you're like, wow, that was good. And then it spawns into something else that there's no way I could have ever predicted what's going on. And it brings me, I gotta give you the quote from Jurassic Park that when I read it, I was like, I man, that's good. It's straight linearity. Did you the, ah, I'll read it.

Shaun Newman [00:56:45] And you, you can comment. All right. So straight linearity is an artificial way of viewing the world. Real life isn't a series of interconnected events happening one after another, like beads strung on a necklace. Life is a series of encounters where one event can change all the events that follow in an unpredictable way. And I read that and I wrote it down and I went, yeah, that rate there is exactly how I live life. So when you say jump in full on, it's like, I have no idea what this conversation is gonna bring. Maybe it brings nothing. Maybe somebody hears it and here's me talking, here's you talking and then reaches out just like I did to you. And you just, you have, there's no way to control that and there's no reason to even think about that. But I know that every day is gonna present opportunities like that that can take us anywhere we want to go. And that is a fun way to live life

Vance Crowe [00:57:35] That, I mean, you are describing like, ah, man, you, like, every once in a while I have a podcast where I just like, well up with excitement and I mean, I'm so glad you brought up Quick Dick Mc Dick because he's one of those guys that it was just like, I think I'm just gonna interview him and then boom, a whole bunch of other things exploded from that. But like, so in the network, one of the things we're doing this month is we're focused on what I call network theory, which is like how to connect your nodes to other nodes. And I think a lot of times networking gets put off in this idea of, well, I gotta make business connections 'cause somebody might wanna buy my product or hire me. But I'm, I think of it in this totally different way. And having watched Pete live this life where he is impacted so many people, your quote there really strikes it to me. So what we've been doing is every day I put a new prompt up, write a teacher that had a big impact on you, and just tell 'em, tell 'em what they did. Write a boss that you know, at one point taught you something that you didn't know. Write to people and make sure that they meet. Because if it weren't, if you don't make that connection happen, you don't know what will happen. And in all the way down deep in my soul, I know that if you, if if you or Miriam or Christina or Mike or any of the people in the network just go and connect two people that were not connected, you may radically change the future and you don't have any idea whether or not the connection when you make it was a good one. But if you try your hardest to make connections between people, spark energy, you are literally changing the world just by a simple email.

Vance Crowe [00:59:14] And the fact that you got over the, I don't know what to write or I don't know how to do it. So you saying that thing, man, like, right, that quote from that, that is quintessentially the very, very core of like the, the, I don't know, my, my inner damon, my voice that says Go do this. So this is like profound to me.

Shaun Newman [00:59:34] Well, it's the only thing I would add about what you're doing in the network is for anyone listening what you've just explained, the only thing I would add as a caveat is when you're connecting to people the way you're trying to do in the network is, and do it without trying to attract the, the good to you. What you're trying to do is give other people the best with nothing coming back to you. Because that, that would be like selfish, right? I'm gonna hook up Vance with this guy 'cause I can see where it's gonna lead for me. Now don't look at where it's gonna lead for you. Look at where it's gonna lead for these two people if you hook 'em together and see where it goes. Because that in itself may pay dividends, may not down the road, but you're trying to do good for somebody else. And when somebody does that for you, it's like talking to Steve about coming on your podcast was probably the easiest sell I've ever done for anyone. Because in the beginning, you hooking me up with Rob was just me asking, and you didn't ask for anything in return. It wasn't like, Hey ab, I'll do that, but I need this in return. It was just kinda like, and down the road, could you maybe pull that off? It's like, yeah, I probably could. And so that night I talked to Steve after we were done and and when you get people to sell you that way, other people pick up on that and they're like, Steve had no, no, he had no hope in hell. Right? He was like, oh yeah, no, I'll gladly do that.

Shaun Newman [01:01:07] 'cause that's just like the genuine feel of it. Instead of it feeling like a cheap sales call, like, oh, and by the way, I need to introduce you to this guy. Well why? Because he, you know, whatever that Kim, that Kim McConnell you, you introduced me to, I listened to his interview. He did, he had, he's been on one podcast and I listened to him and he thinks it's funny. He thinks he has nothing to offer. He was talking to me, he is like, ah, I don't know. I I don't have much doc. I listened to the interview and I was like, in probably 20 minutes spans. He had more profound things about sales and how to network and market that I've ever heard anyone say. And one of them was, was networking and just creating relationships, but not just relationships. Like good relationships where you want the best for each other, and that those are powerful relationships and you'll never know where they end.

Vance Crowe [01:01:59] I think I, so I have really been focused on trying to put myself in a position to have the best dreams that I can at night. And so this has actually been the first time in my life where I've had a carrot instead of a stick to not have a beer, right? Like, I'll be like, ah, the reason I don't want to have a beer is 'cause I might have a hangover tomorrow. Or, you know, like, oh, I might, you know, don't stay up too late because I don't wanna be tired tomorrow. But now I know, like if I really focus on getting good sleep, I have these dreams where when I wake up in the morning, the dreams themselves don't necessarily tell me what I should do. But I have these ideas where I'm like, oh, I should make sure that Kim and Sean know each other. I I should just do that. And I do it in the morning when there's like no resistance, there's nothing stopping me. And I just tap these things out. And I have found that listening to that little voice that says, oh, you ought to introduce this person to that person. I stop whatever I'm doing right then. And if I can't do it right, then I write it down. But almost always I do this. And to me it's like the people that do it will see their lives change in ways that they can't predict and they didn't know what they would want, but, but it's like so deeply important. It may be the one thing I can add into the world is to teach people how to do this in a way that like you're describing where it's, you're not doing it so that that way they then, you know, sell you something or give you something back. It's just, that's the, that's the, that's the thing that you were able to stitch together in the universe that will make the biggest difference.

Shaun Newman [01:03:36] I gotta, I gotta, I gotta quiz you now. What have you been doing to get better sleep then? Just not drinking before bed? Or have you found something that helps you dream more?

Vance Crowe [01:03:45] Oh, so yes. So this guy Eric Holl that I'm really interested in, he talks about one of the problems with modern society is that when you watch entertainment, you're basically tricking your brain into thinking it's having a dream. And so because you're, you're in the grooves of things, you already know the tropes that are already well understood to you. And so he basically says, the way that you can amp up your dreams is go expose yourself to art. Which he defines not as like, you know, what does the museum say is art, but really like things that you look at or listen to that challenge you, that require you to really be like, why is this something that a person put together? You know, why did they push those colors together? Why do those notes mean something to those people? And that by exposing yourself to art, you're actually like flooding your neurons with new information and the dreams are you pulling things that you thought you understood apart and reforming them into different patterns. And so then when you wake up, you have all these revelations that you, you would never have consciously done, but by the fact that you've put yourself in that position to have those dreams. So I, I try and look at art. I think if anybody wants to see a blog that really will challenge you, Plantables blog Rob Long, he posts art and, and complicated ideas. But if you sit down and just sit with them for a little while, they always generate dreams. I sign up for museums that put out art of of the day and I try and expose myself to that.

Vance Crowe [01:05:21] And I really try and kick out entertainment as much as I can. So YouTube is an addiction for me, and I have to stop myself from just tumbling down that rabbit hole. But I will, I kick out Twitter feeds that are entertainment and I try and add things that are, that are art that challenge me as much as I can.

Shaun Newman [01:05:40] Hmm, that's interesting. I'm gonna try that because I, who doesn't want to dream more and have those dreams where you wake up in the morning and you go, I can't put my finger on that, but there's something there and then you think about and you continue to think about it. I think a lot of people have had the dream where you wake up and something that was bothering you the night before or the week before you've got the answer to and you're like, how the hell did that work out? But that's interesting. I I will try that.

Vance Crowe [01:06:13] Yeah. The the biggest thing that the network did was we did, I don't know if you were in there this month when we did, we're gonna try and get the seven to eight hours of sleep every single night.

Shaun Newman [01:06:22] That's when I interviewed you and I didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

Vance Crowe [01:06:26] That was really, that was a profound one. You know, sometimes we try 'em and they work out and sometimes they don't. That one was really good. So that one I was like, I'm going to get eight hours of sleep minus whatever the baby time I had to wake up in the middle of the night for. And that was when I realized like, oh shit, if I get good sleep, I start having dreams, other things start happening. And so that, that was a really good one, Sean, I I, I promised you a time that we would let go and I'm gonna do that now, but I will have you on anytime man. Let's do this more regularly. If people wanted to listen to the podcast that I think is amazing that you put together, where would they find that?

Shaun Newman [01:07:01] Yeah, it's on YouTube or Apple, Spotify and just Sean Newman podcast. Sean with with a U.

Vance Crowe [01:07:09] And if people wanted to support your cycling to go see Quick Dick, where would that money go and how would they do it?

Shaun Newman [01:07:15] We're starting up a GoFundMe, so I would say look out for social media here over the next month and all the money is gonna go to breakfast programs for schools around the Lloydminster and surrounding area.

Vance Crowe [01:07:28] Well, fantastic man, nothing makes me happier than to have had this conversation with you. Thank you so much for joining me, Sean Newman.

Shaun Newman [01:07:35] Thanks.