Canadian Podcaster Explains Why He Left the Trucker Convoy and Took a 2-Month Break

Shaun Newman [00:00:00] You go to a hockey game, you gotta take 12 pictures of it. I'm not against taking the 12 pictures of it pants. You go on a podcast with you, you know, I wanna take a picture of it, you know, so the world knows what's going on and I'm not against it. That's our world right now. But I also think you can't live through the camera lens. You gotta like, you just gotta live. This

Vance Crowe [00:00:17] Is Joseph Ring. I'm a cattle feed lot operator in Northern Illinois and you're listening to the Vance Crow podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. This is a very special podcast because we are talking with Sean Newman. Longtime listeners of the podcast know that Sean is a Canadian guy, he was a hockey player and working in the gas and oil fields when he started a podcast. The podcast grew and grew and grew. And as COVID restrictions came down harshly in Canada, some of Sean's podcast guests started talking about how they didn't think some of what was going on was right. Sean continued to pursue this and to look into it, and he really found himself inside of debates that he found to be completely bewildering. So he has continued to do his podcast to the extent where it has grown for him to do it as a full-time occupation. So we got to Sean on the day that he has handing in the keys to his job to begin podcasting full time. Now, what you'll hear Sean and I talking about is how we went out to the Canadian trucker convoy and got there and realized, you know what? It's time for me to head back home. The things that are going on, what's going on with our government, I just gotta get outta here 'cause it's just right for me. And he took two months off to get away from social media, to get away from his phone and to get his mind right for him to jump into this new venture. And we're gonna hear all about that. This is a very interesting interview. I hope that we don't get kicked off of YouTube for this because Sean has actually officially been kicked off of YouTube for some of the interviews he's done, I think completely erroneously, but hey, that's the game.

Vance Crowe [00:01:56] So we're gonna jump right into the interview, but you will hear me referring to Legacy Interviews. And if you are interested in having me interview one of your loved ones, you can go to store dot Articulate Ventures to book your own interview no matter where you are in the world. Also, Sean and I talk about books and book club and if you would like to join our book club, it is free to anybody that wants to join. All you gotta do is send me a DM on Twitter and I'll send you the link. This month we are reading the Mandibles, which is a book that is actually not Lindy, it's not very old. It is instead trying to describe for people what would happen if the US dollar lost its reserve currency status. It is a wild ride, a dystopian novel about the future, not unlike some of those nuclear bomb stories that went on in the sixties, seventies, and eighties. And I think that if you can get over the idea that the, the frame of the book is actually making you confront a completely different world, it will open your eyes and make you see what's going on around you in a whole different way. So if you're interested, we're reading the Mandibles for the book club, which is the last Sunday of April. We'd love to have you join us, and if you wanna link just to DM me on Twitter at Vance Crowe. Alright, without further ado, let's head to this interview with my man, Sean Newman. Sean Newman, welcome back to the podcast.

Shaun Newman [00:03:19] You know, like normally I would, I would square away like 17 hours for you. V like I I I really enjoy our chats and I've had lots of people talk about listening to us, to yahoos go at it and, and really enjoy it. So it feels a little under the gun this morning. 'cause you'd think my first day of full-time podcasting, I'd be like, oh, here we go. Right? But it must be the nerves. It must be whatever it is. 'cause things are rolling along and well, I'm happy to be here, so thanks for having me on.

Vance Crowe [00:03:47] Well, it is an exciting time because you were on the Canadian trucker convoy and you were, I was following along with it. If it weren't for you, I would've known almost nothing at all about it because the media would just give you a 32nd shot, but then something happened and you were like, Hey, I'm taking off from the convoy. I'm heading back home. I'm gonna pause the podcast for a while. And it was a little bit of a media blackout. So I'm excited 'cause your podcast is coming back. And I thought, let's get him on here. Let's talk about what happened and what, what's gonna be new with the podcast coming up. So yeah,

Shaun Newman [00:04:23] What

Vance Crowe [00:04:23] Happened on the trucker convoy, man?

Shaun Newman [00:04:25] Well, it's, it's, I don't know man. It's, it's hard to explain. Let's clear up some, some rumors. First, I didn't get fired from my job. I didn't get drug off by the Gestapo. Nobody told me to stop. I stopped myself, right? Like there was a lot of different people who put up some theories on what happened to me. And, and none of them happened. It, it was Sean talking to Sean and Sean decided it was time to stop. And I don't know, there was, there was a, a lot that happened in Ottawa from my eyes, all of it was, I didn't realize that level of humanity existed. Now, I, I gotta clarify, I don't go to protests all the time, right? Like, I'm not the guy at the front of the line. So this was a first for me. So that could have been part of it. But the reason for stopping was I just, I hit this point where I clearly understood, like, you got people saying words like, famous in one hand, right? If you stay there, you're gonna be famous. And I was like, well, I didn't come here to be famous. I, I came here because I believed in what they were doing and I wanted to see it for myself. And then along the way, I mean, I do this, so I was like, well, let's talk about it. Let's see, meet some of the people. Let's, you know, like CBC isn't, you know, Canadian television isn't covering this. And they were saying some really weird things on the, the radio and, and on the news stations. And I was sitting there seeing it firsthand. Like, I, I don't see this. Like, I just, so then I started interviewing more and then I started interviewing people that I normally wouldn't interview. Like, I started walking up to people that looked kind of sketchy bands, like, maybe this person is here for bad things and then they turn out to be the nicest human being on the planet.

Shaun Newman [00:06:01] And you're like, I just don't get it. And so the night I stopped was I come home from, or going, going back to the hotel, I guess from being around like all these wonderful human beings, right? You're around like families, kids, truckers, moms, grandmas, just all walks of life, all colors, all creeds, you name it. It wasn't just one type of person that was there. It was, it was rather stunning to see what, what, what showed up. And I sat down, I watched the C, B, C, and this was the whatever day it was. I can, you know, the, those days melted together. But I sat and I watched the CBC talk about what was going on. And they used words that were just, I, I can't even remember them all. I was just like, how, how am I getting this so wrong or so right? Doesn't matter. And our national media is talking about it, like, this is an insurrection and, and using words like that and traitors and, you know, so I just, I had a moment where I, I sat inside my brain. I know how our conversations go, where I sat and I, I really had like this deep moment of like, is this how far my government's willing to go to keep a narrative going. Like, they're not even willing to come down and talk to these people and understand why they're so frustrated.

Shaun Newman [00:07:35] And so I just, I stopped, I just, I, I didn't think anyone needed to hear from me anymore. Like you could see, like, use your eyes, you could see the thousands of people using their videos, their Twitter feeds, everything. Like Sean Newman didn't need to be the voice of what was going on there. The people need to be the voice. And they did a very good job of it. And I just took a step back because I didn't want to become, and I, I'm not saying I would've been, but there was people telling me, oh, you'll be famous after this. I'm like, well, I don't, I don't wanna be famous like I something why I came here. And then the next person would say, well you're gonna be a traitor, right? They're gonna take you away. Well, that's a pretty hard thing to reconcile. You know, me, I got a young family and everything else. And so there was just a lot that went on in Ottawa. And for the most part it was beautiful. It was, I didn't realized that level of humanity existed and I hit a point where I just, I didn't know what to do. And sometimes when you don't know what to do, it's just best to just stop and let the people think what they wanted to think. But it was me who put the, the brakes on so I could kind of regroup and, and move forward.

Vance Crowe [00:08:39] I mean, when I was watching all that go on, I was thinking as you were getting engaged in, I was like, this is one of those things where you, you can follow what's going on. You can find that you're curious about what are these people's intentions? What are they thinking about? But if somebody wants to draw a wide enough circle around you and other people that have other intentions and drag you into that net, you could be there. And it doesn't matter whether the net they have is accurate or not, they're just trying to lump groups of people in to say, these people are bad or these people have bad intentions. And so I was definitely concerned for you as you went. And when you decided to back out, I thought, you know, there's gotta be a reason here. And it didn't necessarily have to be one that was clear cut. It didn't have to be like, oh, I was getting in trouble or something. It could just be time to go. I saw enough,

Shaun Newman [00:09:32] Yeah, it was, well all the people that he arrested, I met them all. Or you know, I've interviewed them or Right, like I, I watched a, a Fifth estate, which you know, is kind of like 60 minutes, something along that lines. And they interviewed a bunch of people from the convoy and I'm like, oh, I've interviewed that person. Oh, I've interviewed that person. Oh, I shook hands with him or I know him, or whatever. And you're just like, I just, I don't know, I don't know if I got too close to the sun or not. Like I fully, I can't sit here and act like I know the full story of everything. I was certainly wasn't there for five weeks. Like I was there for my time and in my time what the CBC was saying, then what lots of people in our country were saying just didn't match to what I saw. And I tried to find bad people. Like I tried to like find like the person wearing the Nazi flag or you know, like it, all these stories that came out. And what we found, like what I found was the complete opposite. You know, like they talked about defecating on the war monument or people doing things to the Terry Fox monument. Well I went there at like 11 o'clock at night 'cause I was like, well, you know, 'cause people out there picking garbage at one in the morning. And I thought that was pretty cool. I'd talked to a 20 year vet of the Ottawa police force and he said, you know, the one thing that's interesting about these protesters is he goes, is I've never seen protesters pick up garbage before. Like it's, that's just strange. And they go out at one in the morning and pick garbage. And I'll tell you this, after about day four, I don't think they needed to do that anymore because everybody was doing it.

Shaun Newman [00:11:06] Like, was it the cleanest place on the earth? Well, no, it's, I mean it's, it's a street, but it was dang close. And like I went out to the Terry Fox monument 'cause I was like, you know what? Like maybe I should go see what's going on there. Well then people started camping by it 'cause they made sure nothing was gonna happen. 'cause everything that happened, nobody really thought was gonna happen. And then, you know, a few, whatever they are, you know, whether they were put there or whether it was somebody wanting to do something bad after like day four, like all that was cleaned up and was taken care of and garbage was being picked everywhere in the city. Like you wanted, you were hungry vans, you just walked down there. There was so much food, there was so much goodwill. They didn't care what your background was. They wanted to feed you. And there was families coming after work from in Ottawa to sit there and cook all night. And like kids and families and like, and then what did they portrayed as like a bunch of white men who were there being pissed off because they were, you know, the vaccine mandate? No, the vaccine mandate on the truckers was a thing that broke the camel's back. They were tired of people telling 'em what they could and couldn't do with themselves and their work and everything else. And so they drove there. And along the way I would say that it started as maybe something to do with the truckers. They were just like the, the tip of the spear. Like once they started going, they galvanized an entire country of like, holy crap. Yeah. Like I'm angry, I'm, I want to do something. This feels like something that could work. And then when they got there, everybody knew if you step at a line, they're gonna put a camera on it and they're gonna try and paint this as something that it's not.

Shaun Newman [00:12:38] And so everybody there, I've never seen so many people from, you know, like you got Quebec there. I, I come from West, we're taught to not hate Quebec, but definitely not love Quebec. They were some of the nicest people I ever met. And I couldn't speak half the words, but we all got like, okay, there's garbage on the ground, you pick it up, there's somebody who needs help across the street, you help 'em, there's homeless that need fed, you feed 'em. And that's how it went. Somebody needs a shower, you invite 'em up to your, your room to have a shower. Like it was, I didn't realize the level of humanity existed. And honestly, the fact that our government keeps trying to portray it as something that's not really, you know, the word i I keep using and it is probably not the right one, but it's, it's a real mind fuck. Like, it's just like, what is going on? Like as a prime minister, you should have been, I'm not saying you should have invited all the truckers in, but you should have looked at that and been like, okay. And that's what gives fire to all the conspiracy theories because instead of that they've painted it as like, oh, these people want to destroy our country and it's made the Canadian flag look bad and whatever. I've never been more proud of the Canadian flag in my life. The f Trudeau flags. I think we all could agree that you can't rally around a negative symbol, but like, that's how people felt. And if you can't recognize that, like, I don't know, I'm just disappointed in all our leadership across the board, but I'm just, you know, I'm just a minion vets, like I'm, I'm nobody special, you know that I'm just a guy who follows his heart and, and where it leads him sometimes is good, sometimes is confusing.

Shaun Newman [00:14:17] And Ottawa was, I don't know, was surreal.

Vance Crowe [00:14:21] So let's talk about it because you know, once the cameras got turned off right once, once they started arresting people and people went home, then there was the Ukraine and everything just dissolved. So nobody even knew that anything was going on. What was the experience like of driving home? Now you've got some time behind the wheel, you've got your own thoughts to think about and then you get back home. And what, how was the world different when you got back there?

Shaun Newman [00:14:47] Well, I would say being in Ottawa was like being in a bubble and time just didn't matter, right? Like, it just didn't matter. I've heard, I talked to a photographer from Toronto and he was down there, he'd come up, he just wanted to take some, some pictures and he was a super nice guy. And you can imagine me Vance, I'm, I'm a bubbly guy. I'm bouncing around talking to everyone and he's wearing a, a full be of clave, right? And his minus whatever in Canada. But I look at that and I go, this guy's out for no good. So I walk up to him 'cause nobody else will. And I just start talking to him pretty soon. He is got his, here's this lovely man, he is just cold, right? And I'm like, you know, we get talking back and forth and he, I thought he, he, he said it really well 'cause he had tons of friends going like, like is it dangerous? There? Are you safe? And he's going safe. Oh, this is the safest place on the earth. And he goes, it's kinda like going to one of your best friend's weddings. And you go there and everybody's so happy and loves in the air and whatever. He goes, except instead of every being drunk, they're punch drunk. They're like so drunk on happiness. Everybody's just walking around with big smiles and high fiving. And he goes, there's, you don't need the drinking and the drugs and everything to, to ha like it's here. And so I I think when you left that bubble and you came out of it, you realize the real world was still there. Like, and I like you come out and you're like, oh yeah, right? Like life is still going on. I come home and people are still depressed.

Shaun Newman [00:16:20] People are still like fearful of, you know, what's gonna come here over the next little bit. And are you, that was interesting.

Vance Crowe [00:16:29] So so what about the, the changes that came? I mean, did vaccine mandates come down? Are you guys still wearing masks? How's it going there?

Shaun Newman [00:16:37] No. Yeah, so like, it, it did a lot. There's no, the QR code right now in Alberta, Saskatchewan's gone. The masks are gone except for in like maybe doctor's offices, that type of thing. The one that's really interesting is the federal one, right? I'm still not allowed to fly across our country, take a train, right? Like so

Vance Crowe [00:17:00] 'cause because of not being vaccinated Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:17:02] You're

Vance Crowe [00:17:03] Not allowed to get on a plane.

Shaun Newman [00:17:04] Yeah. In our country.

Vance Crowe [00:17:07] I did not know that.

Shaun Newman [00:17:08] Yeah. It's, it's, this is like, Canada has got to a point where if the truckers don't go, I don't know where we're at. People are, yeah, they're, they're, they're frustrated and their government isn't listening and allowed whatever it is keeps telling 'em more and more, more. And there's a quiet majority of people vaccinated, unvaccinated. That was what was beautiful about Ottawa. It wasn't just one type person. I mean, geez, I got my YouTube channel removed for interviewing one of the drivers and he was a vaccinated driver. I was like, like this is, we're getting to like insanity here where you can't talk about anything anymore. But yeah, no, you can't

Vance Crowe [00:17:48] Happened to that. What was the experience like? You, you interviewed somebody and, and YouTube took you off the air. I mean, that was astounding. I figured it might happen. 'cause you were talking in areas that they're like, ah, you're not supposed to be, but you know, that, that came to mind. Am I gonna get booted off just by talking to you here? You know, have you become radioactive in some way?

Shaun Newman [00:18:07] I don't know, Vance. Like, I, I take a step back and I go, am I extreme? I don't, I don't, I don't feel extreme. I feel pretty normal. I just want to talk about what I want to talk about. And the interview that got yanked was Chris Barber and here's this father truck driver sitting on the side of the highway in, in the United States. And I don't even know what we talked about, honestly. People go back and listen to it. Like we we're just talking about this idea of this trucker convoy. 'cause it's before the trucker convoy leaves. And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, this is interesting. Right? Okay. And then he is like, you know, and all the money and I'm like, oh, there's a GoFundMe. Oh, that makes sense. Okay. And my head was about to ask, well, where's the money gonna go? And he goes, the money we use is gonna go to fuel and maybe some hotel rooms after that. It's all going to to veterans. And I was like, oh, that's, that's beautiful. Oh, that's great at, I'm glad you guys thought of that. Right? And I don't know what else we really talked about. A guy should really go back and listen to it, but I thought it was the most harmless interview. I mean, obviously the trucker convoy happens and I mean, it was the largest thing in the world at the time. So like the one interview Yeah, I get what it means on a larger scale I guess, but like YouTube just banned the entire channel and didn't, like, just basically was like, you know, you're going against our guidelines. I'm like, your guidelines have something against protesting. Oh, I didn't, I didn't know that. Oh, okay. You know, like if I've become radioactive, that's because my government doesn't want people to talk. That's it. Like, I haven't done anything.

Shaun Newman [00:19:38] Like I, you know, like have I had some people on that have been a little bit more extreme than others? Sure. But I mean, come on. Like, we gotta give our heads a shake here. And I mean that as, as a populace, if we're gonna let our government dictate what we can and cannot say when it's in a pretty, like, I'm not getting people to go do anything insane. I just want to talk about what's going on. And then to me, if that becomes dangerous, we got a real problem and I feel like we do have a real problem.

Vance Crowe [00:20:08] Yeah, I mean that's at its core. I was talking with my executive producer about talking with you and I've had a couple other guests that have gotten themselves in hot water, whether it's on Facebook or YouTube. And at the end of the day, as long as you and I are having a conversation where we are talking about how do you feel about things, how do you see the world? If somebody wants to ban me for it, it's good to know that now. Because to censor yourself and to put yourself in a position where you're like, ah, that guy got blacklisted and I don't want to be a part of that blacklist, then you are participating in that game the exact same way that the people that are instituting it because you're, you're at least singing in, in harmony with them. So for me, you know, my my executive producer, we were like, come what may, you know, you need to have conversations and we need to be proud of what it is that we say and how it is that we conduct ourselves. But I mean, I've heard many, many, many hours of your interviews and I've never heard you calling for anything. In fact there, if there's one thing I would say, it's, it's, Sean's always like, I'm just asking questions here. I'm just asking questions here. And I don't think you're being cute. I don't think you're, I don't think you're faking your way through it. I think you're actually asking questions and the more that you've gotten answers back, you're like, Hey, wait a second, has everybody heard that? Has everybody realize that that's what they're saying here because that's, you know, this is a, a fundamental change to the way our government is working, the way our people work.

Shaun Newman [00:21:28] Isn't that journalism? I don't know. Like, I'm not sitting here saying I don't have biases. 'cause I mean, I certainly do, but I would also argue, if you go back like three years ago and listen to me when I first started to now I'm open to just about anything. Like I'm, I'm really open to like hearing different thoughts and opinions and whatever else. I think that's the whole point of it. But like, I don't know man, like where we're going right now is just like, it's good to be back on the air. I took two months off fans and I just needed to, I, I needed to answer some questions with myself, right? One was like, do I really want to do this? Like, do I really wanna do this? Because I really enjoy this. I really enjoy sitting across from people like yourself. I mean, it's always fun to go on somebody else's show, but I love being the conductor. I like being just asking the questions and seeing where my brain goes because I don't follow a script. I, I try to like zone out the world and really focus on what the, the person's saying and, and if that takes it where I, you know, I didn't foresee it going so be it, but for two months I, I really had to dig because I was like, you know, if you don't wanna do this, that's fine, right? Like nobody, you know, people be upset, whatever. But after two weeks my lag was twitchy and I'm like, it's time to get back going. And I told myself then, nope, you gotta wait. You're gonna give this the time. You need the time. And here I sit, it's been almost two months and like I'm itchy. Like I, when you text, I'm like, yeah, let's go. Like it's, it's time to get moving again. Because in the course of two months, like there's people still in jail in Canada for the trucker convoy and like, listen, I can't sit here and spec, like I gotta do some, some digging on it.

Shaun Newman [00:23:07] But like, to me that seems crazy, right? You got the Ukraine, Russia thing going on, you got gas prices here just going astronomical. You got things going on. You know, you're gonna have a leadership review in Alberta here coming up. And there's some funky stuff going on there. Like there's just, there is stuff going on. The two months didn't slow down, it just sped up and it's time to get going again. 'cause people need to know what's going on. I want to know what's going on.

Vance Crowe [00:23:33] Well, and when you say that you're thinking about, you know, coming back after two months, you aren't just being like, oh, I'm gonna start doing my podcasts on nights and weekends. Now you're actually pushing all the chips in you, you really believe that this is a direction for you to head in. So you're making a categorical life change. What are you able to talk about now with that life change?

Shaun Newman [00:23:52] Well, so like today I hand the keys in and it's, it's full-time podcasting. So what I would say about it is I've wanted, you know, since I started, I, I think probably you can agree since I started, like this is something I'm like, man, can you imagine full-time podcasting? What a job that'd be like, that'd be tons of fun. But I would be lying if I didn't have the other guy in the head going, so you're gonna give him up a full-time job with great benefits, you know, like a comfortable lifestyle. And at today's world with gas price and everything, you know, like one thing your listeners will, will, will chuckle at or what, whatever, maybe they'll raise your eyebrows. It's like company vehicle and company gas card. Well, I tell you what, that's a huge expense right now. So to walk away from it all, not to mention the group of guys I was working with, the company I was working for, like they were just really good to me was a difficult decision. But I come back to the same thing every time. Vance, if I live to be 70, which I hope, and this failed miserably, I'll never regret it. I'll never regret trying. And at 35, I think I put myself in a position where I got about nine months, I got 20, 22. And if it doesn't work, I will hang my hat on the wall and I'll go back to the oil field or whatever job and I will, I'll be, you know, I, I will, don't think I'll have any regrets if I don't try, I'm gonna have regrets. I'm gonna think about this for the rest of my life. And so yeah, it's gonna be three times a week.

Shaun Newman [00:25:24] Monday, Wednesday, Friday, that's where I'd started out, 2022. And I just, you know, I wanna push the envelope. Like I just, I wanna go out and get some people, I wanna have some fun and I wanna talk some people that got some things to say. And I think Canada needs it, like Western Canada doesn't have enough. We focus too much on the United States, you know, to get our entertainment, to get our politics, to get everything and heck to even get our sports, right? Like sports might be the one thing we do better than you guys when it comes to hockey. But other than that, like everything we watch your guys' entertainment is like entices all Canadians. And we have smart people here. I think we've proven that and we got talented people here and we got things going on that greatly impact our lives and nobody's talking about it. And so we gotta do a better job of that.

Vance Crowe [00:26:13] Yeah. You know, one of the things you guys have that I think a lot of Americans wanna have, my audience is largely comprised of people in ag, so I think they resonate with you, but you have community, right? You've got people that decided to sponsor the show that are right there in your community. And I think that makes a huge difference. What is gonna change about your podcast now that you are a full-time person? I mean, of course you'll do more podcasting, but does something change about the content? Does something change about the questions or how hard you can go in the paint?

Shaun Newman [00:26:43] No, no, I'm going hard in the paint. I'm, I I I'm gonna be the, I want to tell like, to anyone who's listening, it's gonna be the same thing. The only thing I want to be very careful of is that I don't get caught in a rabbit hole, you know, for, you know, like I talked about COVID nonstop for probably eight months now, in fairness, it was pretty hard to talk about anything else because here everything was shut down, everything everywhere you went, it was a QR code, this mask that, you know, like, it, it was wild. It was, I never want to go back to those days. And so I would say probably the one difference, you know, in the first week is, is two buddies who used to do a podcast called War on Weakness. They're both local, they've both been on the podcast multiple times. That's gonna be my first episode. And then Dan Belford is the, the RCMP officer who got arrested in Ottawa. He is gonna be my second one. And then my third one is, I'm gonna go back to something from the past. We're gonna do a little sports, we're gonna have my brothers on and do a brothers round table. And that's gonna be my first three episodes. And like moving forward, I just wanna make sure that I have a little bit of variety I don't think anyone can live on, no matter how good the information is. Vance, I don't think anyone including myself can live on like, just like how bad things are. I think we gotta remind ourselves like we, there's, there's still a lot of good things going on. And to have some laughter and some smiles and talk about things that aren't politics or worldviews or man, like, there's so much more to life than just sitting there arguing about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and what dumb thing he did today.

Shaun Newman [00:28:22] Doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it, but we can talk about other things as well.

Vance Crowe [00:28:26] Yeah, I posted two different episodes lately. I did one where it was a talk that I had given that I had, I, I got the recording of it and published it. And then one where I did a virtual reality museum tour, I met with an artist and we like walked around there and I got more letters from fans saying thank you for the break. Like, I love the information. We're talking about Ukraine, we're talking about COVID, we're talking about these things. But man, it is nice to have your, your brain just kind of be able to, to plug out of whatever the fashion layer is, the thing that everybody's trying to get you to pay attention to and to go deeper and to, and to think about things about your own internal voice, your own internal life. And I mean, one of the things that drew you and I together was that you have a really rich life, cultural life. You're reading books, you care about all kinds of parts of sports and community. I think it's really good that you do that because you, you're so much bigger than just an all COVID all the time thing. But I I I'm glad to hear you're fully aware of that. I don't think it was ever a danger.

Shaun Newman [00:29:27] Yeah. Well you've noticed this, right? Obviously I was reading books with you guys and I just, I've, I, over the past two months I've, I've been reading a little bit, but I used to listen to podcasts like every single day. I, I just turned it all off. I turned off all social media, I turned it, I turned it all off. The only way anyone was getting ahold of me is if they text or called me. That's all I wanted to do. And I did my first SMP presents and I took out anything virtual, so if, if anyone wanted to zoom in or anything like that gone, I, I I was like, no, I'm, I I want in person. I think you need. So

Vance Crowe [00:29:59] Talk about what that is. What is, what is the, the SNP presents?

Shaun Newman [00:30:02] Yeah, so it probably happens more than I think, but I just don't understand why we don't put smart people in a room, give them problems and, you know, give them a, a figurative whiteboard to write out the answers, the solutions and, and talk about things. And so the first one was a doctor, a lawyer, a politician and a media personality. And I put 'em in a room and put 'em on stage, let 'em all talk. And then I just moderated and essentially just got 'em to talk about the past two years and, and just talk about some things that we're trying to do in the suit, you know, in the future and, and possible ways out of it. And it was just, the idea is, you know, a group of people talking for a night pants. And I couldn't figure out if people were gonna be like, oh, that'll be great or, and that's gonna be the most boring shit in the world. And, you know, it's, it's an idea that was in my head and I know it's not an original idea, just something that I thought I could facilitate and be a good night. And you put a nice meal in it and you add some drinks and you allow people to meet and crowds and God, you just forget how after two years and nobody being together, like how good it is for people to be together and not have to worry about do I need a mask? Do I need a QR code? Do I need a negative test? Do I need to do this? Do I need to put hand sanitizer on? Do I need these 17 different steps? It was just like, come enjoy, interact, here's some smart people or relatively smart. I mean, you got me up on stage two and I don't put myself in that category, but you, you, you get these people up there and you just get talking and you talk about some things that people wanna hear about.

Shaun Newman [00:31:43] And it was a really good night. And I allowed the audience to direct where the, where the round table went for the most part. And that way they're involved and it just, I dunno, it felt like, it just felt like we're humans again. And I know that's like a, a poetic way maybe of saying it, but like for two years up here it just seemed like it was gonna get better and then get worse, and then it's gonna get better. It's getting worse and it's getting get worse, and then it's gonna get worse and then it's getting worse and it just wouldn't relent. And right now it, it feels better and I hope that's the way it's gonna turn. Now, obviously Ukraine, Russia, I mean, I mean my heart goes out to, to anyone who's in a war torn country and that's really taking the focus off what's, what's going on. But I mean, in our own country right now, yeah, like you can't travel, you can't, like, there's some weird stuff still going on and you hope that gets cleared up.

Vance Crowe [00:32:35] Well, I mean that's why it's so important to keep these conversations going. You know, I had a communications professor, probably the, the most important thing I learned in college came, I think the very first week of communications classes where the professor said, look, we've done a bunch of studies and we know that the media can't tell you what to think, but they can tell you what to think about. And that has been on full display Now, I would say because of COVID we can say the media will tell people what to think, but I mean the biggest thing that they have is what is everybody paying attention to, whether it's Ukraine or Will Smith slapping somebody, right? It's, it's, it's what is, what is the thing that we're all talking about. And can you

Shaun Newman [00:33:18] Believe that though, will Smith walking up and Absolutely just giving him five fingers to the face.

Vance Crowe [00:33:24] Oh, I mean, to me the, the, the slap there and not having immediate kickback and not having every single person say this was the wrong move, you know, to watch people come up and justify it afterwards, you hear these interviews, you're like, what do you think about that slap? And they're like, well, if he was insulting my wife or oh, if he was doing like, no bullshit, that's violence and violence begets more violent

Shaun Newman [00:33:46] To a comedian.

Vance Crowe [00:33:47] Yeah, this is

Shaun Newman [00:33:48] To a comedian at what point, like, it, it opened the door for like, and once again, like the, everyone's talking about Jada Pinkett and Ha or her condition and all that. And like, I'm okay, but I'm like, comedians go over the line all the time. That's what comedians do. And you just allowed on one of the biggest shows for a guy to walk up slap him and nothing happened. And I was like, holy crap. Like that's gonna open, you know, like Dave Chappelle's gonna be like, nah, not going on the stage tonight.

Vance Crowe [00:34:18] I mean, it goes to show you that. Yet again, people will justify violence depending on what their situation is. And this is the way that mobs become completely out of control because they come to the conclusion that our violence is the righteous justified Okay, kind. And how do you know, how do you, how do you define that line? Well, it's what do the big groups of people in the media tell you is okay, it's, it's the mob mentality. Things that have gone on, you and I've been talking about it since we first started, you know, doing these interviews, it's so out of control and that, that outburst is the worst one of all because anybody that defends that is, is delusional. That they're, that they are supporting a system in which that violence could be turned on you and have everybody say, well, it was your fault that you got slapped.

Shaun Newman [00:35:05] It's interesting because like I, people wanted to, people like Will Smith, I like Will Smith, right? So you wanna find the reason of like why it was okay for him to do that, right? Like, well, I mean you just stand up for his wife and you're like, well, but yeah, but right. And I find like when you take a step back from a lot of situations, you see that play out over and over and over again, right? Like you wanna I go back, I hate to bring the listeners will, I apologize to your listeners, but I go back to Ocean Wise Blatt and you won't know who that is. Ocean is a, a young kid from Calgary and the reason I bring it up is my first podcast back, it's been a hundred episodes since I had these guys on and we talked about Ocean Wise Blatt and Ocean Wise Blatt, the reason why his name is particularly relevant is it would've been a year ago there was the order for COVID distancing closed down the rink. So a bunch of kids were on an outdoor rink in Calgary and Ocean Wise Blatt, his video went viral when cops tackled him for skating on an outdoor rink during COVI. And I remember myself fans going, well, he should have just got off the rink. Like I that's what I was saying, a year, a year and a half ago, year and a bit ago. And that situation, I look back on it, I'm like, man, like even I can say to myself like, nah, you're like, nah, I don't think it's all right for cops to tackle kids skating on an outdoor rink, even in COVID. Like that's a bit ridiculous. And I think at this point we can all, for the most part admit that.

Shaun Newman [00:36:40] But you see that situation and those traits in people it trying to justify like Will Smith, was he right? And slapping somebody well in certain situations, sure. I I could, I could get behind, will stand up for his wife Absolutely. Live television while comedians just trying to make jokes at the start of a show that, yeah, I have a hard time with that one. But people will try and justify it because of their allegiance to Will Smith or their allegiance to, you know, standing up for your wife or their allegiance to whatever it is.

Vance Crowe [00:37:12] The only way to avoid becoming swept up into the mob is to have your own belief system. And if that belief system is like catered on, like, you know, well how bad was the joke? Right? Oh, well, you know how it's going to be so subjective that you will you place yourself in the position where you are going to get pulled into, you're gonna get sucked right into it. I think the same thing was going on with the Ukraine. Like there are people that had n could not find the Ukraine on the map and they're now putting their flags up and they're saying, th these are the good guys and those are the bad guys and maybe they're right, right? But you don't know that. And to do things like calling for the assassination of another country's president or calling for the, you know, like what we should do, send arms or send more money or do these things. You're like, you're getting involved in something that you don't understand and the only reason that you feel justified in it is 'cause all the people around you are doing this. And that is the mob. And the mob is the scariest force in all of the world. And it seems like ever since COVID started, the mob is getting worse and worse and worse.

Shaun Newman [00:38:21] Worse and worse and worse. Yeah, I would agree. I should point out to you, in Alberta, while Canada has the largest Ukrainian population outside the Ukraine, and then I believe in Alberta, we got, man, it's something like 250,000 Ukrainians. So it's interesting here because our Ukrainian heritage runs back pretty deep in saying that. I, I agree with your point though of like, once you realize it, like everybody wants you, like they want to pull you into these like feel good stories. It could be mental health, it can be, it can be. I mean the more the standup for Ukrainians, it can be Black Lives Matter, it can be all these different things. And it's very interesting to watch 'cause this is the trucker's convoy, how they didn't want you to be on that one. Like, no, this one isn't good. We're not, nope, we're not for this. Why is that? Well, why because they just want their lives back. Is that why? You know, and once you've experienced, like you were talking about, you have to think for yourself when it comes to these things. It's taken a long time and a lot of, you know me and you had a conversation about the inner dialogue that that's, that's a long time ago Vance. And to me, I've had to have lots of conversations now with myself about where I stand and how, and one of the things that came at Ottawa was I was not gonna be dictated by anyone anymore on how to think. And I think maybe for the podcast you're asking how it's gonna be different no matter how good of a guest I have, come on.

Shaun Newman [00:39:58] I, I think no matter what they say, I'm gonna remind myself along the way that nobody gets to tell me how to think. And that's been, I've been pretty adamant in that since I came home. I just, I've never been more self-confident and it took going to one of the most severe places in the world and experiencing lots of different emotions to find that. And that was an inner conversation with myself on where I wanted to be and who I want to be. And I think more people need to do that. I don't know how to make them do that. I I have no idea

Vance Crowe [00:40:29] The best, the best format to get people to see that it can be done is just to do it by example, right? Like, because to tell other people, oh, you ought to do this is a very different thing than, hey, I was among people that were, you know, holding me up on their shoulders. They saw what I could do for them and what they could do for me. And I could have become famous by being at this trucker convoy. I could have, you know, ridden this wave and, and probably had your, your, you know, a real avalanche going towards the launch of your full-time podcast. But because you were able to pull out and say, Hey, maybe that's the right way to go, but maybe it's not and I don't know what to do, so I'm going to pull out. That is something most people don't, don't do. And in fact, most people shouldn't put themselves in the position to be in a place like the trucker convoy if they can't listen to that voice when there starts to be doubt because most people, they, they're, they, the ability to be able to even talk to that inner voice is so limited that they, it, it's not possible to listen to it when it comes down to it.

Shaun Newman [00:41:29] It's an interesting yeah, like career wise that may have been a really poor choice, right? Like it may have been, I have no idea. All I know is I, if you don't stick true to yourself, me and you have talked about this before, we've talked about this with a lot. It doesn't matter. You, you're never gonna be like if you stick true to yourself. That's like, that's happiness. Like I really think that's like a real key to life is just stick true. You don't wanna do something, just don't do it. You don't. I mean, and stick

Vance Crowe [00:42:06] True. I, I do these Legacy Interviews now where I sit down with

Shaun Newman [00:42:09] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:42:10] And they, and they record like their history. So yesterday I did one with a beautiful woman, she's like in her, I don't know, maybe early seventies, and she's been a psychologist and an executive coach. And I said, how do you know if your career has been successful? And, and she said, well, I know that it has, because people were transformed and the the things that they changed about the life, they changed their job. They changed how they operated in their job, they changed their relationships with people that cascades millions and millions of times over with the relationship that they have with their wife that's now better because instead of fighting their job, they're doing something they're at peace with. So at home is better. They, they have better relationships with the other people they work with. And she talked about how much of her impact came from things that she would never see, but she could, she could know definitively that it's like gravity, if you make somebody else transform their life or help them transform their life,

Shaun Newman [00:43:03] Isn't that something?

Vance Crowe [00:43:05] And that's you, man. Like that's, that's what you're doing. And whether or not this works out, which I I have a lot of confidence that you're gonna make it work and you have a community of people that wanna see it work. But as long as you stay true to yourself, that's, that's the most important thing.

Shaun Newman [00:43:20] And that's something that was one of the coolest things about Ottawa. I, I'd never fed homeless before and I, I, you know, like, do I want to like sure, like I wanna be a community, you know, me, I, I like being a community minded guy, but like, and in Ottawa, I got to feed the homeless. That is like a, everyone should do that, but everyone should do it without a phone over their shoulder taking pictures and talking about it. You should just do it to do it. Because if you do that, the, like, the gratification that comes from it is, I don't know. And I, I worry about our society right now. You, you go to a, you go to a hockey game, you gotta take 12 pictures of it. I'm not against taking the 12 pictures of it pants. You go on a podcast with you, you know, I wanna take a picture of it, you know, so the world knows what's going on and I'm not against it. That's our world right now. But I also think you can't live through the camera lens. You gotta like, you just gotta live and too much of us right now, you go anywhere and you want to capture everything and you're like, it's like, just enjoy it. And if you can be where your feet are, like man, the world is, is a fun place. And well

Vance Crowe [00:44:32] I have a, I have a, you know, little daughter, right? And it's so tempting every time she's doing something cute to try and capture it through the phone. But if you're watching it through the phone, you're not watching it in real life. And she's now, instead of seeing you watch her, she's seeing you watch your phone to watch her. And it's not the same thing. And it, and like, you could do it a few times, but you don't really realize what you're cheating when you do it all the time. And I am just as guilty as anybody else. 'cause I see that cute little smile and I'm like, oh, I want to capture this forever. But people,

Shaun Newman [00:45:02] Yeah, one of the, one of the, one of the things I've done, my wife and I talked about when I got home is I used to have

Vance Crowe [00:45:09] My

Shaun Newman [00:45:10] Phone and all my cards together, like a little card wallet on the phone, right? That way I'd never lose anything. But the problem was when we go on a date night, I bring in the phone and then it starts dinging at Ann. Pretty soon you're, you know, and she's just like, could you just, and I'm like, well, I got all the cards. So what I did was, is I never thought I'd do this. I hated a wallet. I went back to a wallet. So that when, when we go to like family things, when we go to for a date night, when we, you know, even when I go to my brother's house now or one of my brother's houses, I leave the phone in the truck and I just take my wallet in or I don't take anything. You know, if we need money, I need money and I'll find myself for the first 10 minutes, I'm a little fidgety, like, oh, we're, oh yeah, right? I left it. Oh, oh, but then you don't have the distraction anymore. And I find it crazy how many distractions we have in life right now. Like, and I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but man, one day I hope me and you get to sit across from each other and do this. It's cool that we can connect with anyone in the world via Zoom and all these different platforms I think is really cool for people to like hear it, but it's way different when it's in person, it's way better. And we both know that, but you know, distance and everything else and money and you know, like all these things. But distractions are a crazy thing. And part of the problems we have as a population is exactly that.

Vance Crowe [00:46:28] I started wearing a watch and I did not realize how much it'd be like, oh, I just need to know what time it's so I'm pulling on my phone, oh, now I see that somebody wrote me. Now I'm gonna click into that. And you don't realize just over and over and over again, speaking of watches, we are right up at time. You were so gracious to make this work today. Sean, if people wanted to catch your podcast, tell 'em, tell 'em where to get it.

Shaun Newman [00:46:49] Yeah. Spotify, apple, Sean Newman podcast Sean with a, with a U and yeah, Monday, Wednesday, Friday it comes out. This will be the first one. April 4th is coming. Quick. Vance, I don't know when this release is, but obviously April 4th, if it's later than that, she's already out and back on and rolling. And here we go.

Vance Crowe [00:47:10] Well, God bless you and good on you with your family doing something new and taking a chance, man. I think it's, it's good for the world, but I'm glad you're doing it.

Shaun Newman [00:47:18] Yeah, thanks man. Appreciate, appreciate you having me back on and look forward to reciprocating the favor here in April. I'll, I'll grill you on some, some deep topics.

Vance Crowe [00:47:28] It'll be a blast. All right, thanks man. Thanks.