Sara Krenski; Exercise instructor & Montessori advocate on learning to enjoy exercise in community

Sara Krenski [00:00:00] One child said something out loud, you know, loud and another child was like, like, can you, can you please keep it down? And I was like, what? What is going on? Why are these children acting like adults? And you know, and then later on they were fold, they were folding the napkins after lunch. And it was like, these children were so independent and grown up that I, I was like, sign me up. Say like, we want an independent child. This is amazing. I'm Miriam Hoffman, a full-time college student living in Carbondale, Illinois. And you're listening to the Vance Crow podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:32] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today is the final installment of the exercise series and I interviewed Sarah Krinsky, who runs a bootcamp here in St. Louis. Sarah comes highly recommended from people that I really respect. And one of the things that I think is so interesting about the exercise program that she runs is that people have been a part of it for 10, 15 years. And that kind of longevity is one of those things that keeps people from exercising. Oftentimes people will start with some high aspirations. Maybe they do it for a run or two or three, maybe they stay for three weeks, but then it falls off. So I really wanted to talk with Sarah about how do you have longevity? How do you lead a group? What is it about her personality that allowed a group to just keep coming back? And you'll notice during this conversation that I struggle to get her to talk about herself because she is so good at seeing the potential in other people, at seeing what's possible and not seeing the walls that keep them from getting to where they're going. That when they pass through things that they never thought that they could do, she's not surprised. And so it's hard for her to really have a deep look into her leadership style. But we have a great conversation. We talk all about why people are motivated to exercise, what gets them going through it. And then we move into a conversation about Montessori schools and about how she has turned her marketing and communications career into a totally different direction.

Vance Crowe [00:02:05] And now she goes and helps Montessori schools get started around the country. And she talks all about what the philosophy of Montessori is. It was so impactful that I am now going to be reading the book she suggested and really looking into this philosophy. And I know for a fact that this will generate conversations inside of the Articulate Ventures network, which you've probably heard me talking about before. But this is a group that is growing and it's a group of people that are trying to get together in a community. They come from all different walks of life and they're saying, this is what I hope to accomplish. This is a dream I've always wanted to reach and I didn't know how. And so I'm gonna just put it out here. And what you notice is that people form into little groups and they say, I can help you with this part of it. Maybe I can help you figure out your accounting challenge. Hey, maybe I can help you by giving you feedback on the thing you've produced so far. And what is building here is something so far beyond what I think anything else that's going on in social media. So if you've been one of those people that's like, I wanna get off of social media, but this is my contact with the outside world, then I would, I would encourage you to go to Network Articulate Ventures and take a look at this group and see if this is something that you would wanna do. Even if you aren't able to name the dreams that you have, just getting around a bunch of people that are striving to try and make their lives better to try and add things into the world starts to become inspirational and you see what other people are capable of doing and it makes you wanna do a little bit more yourself.

Vance Crowe [00:03:41] So you would be welcome to join if you're a person that likes conversations like the one I'm about to have with mam Sarah Krinsky. Then I hope that you would consider joining the Articulate Ventures Network. So go to Network dot Articulate Ventures. Thanks. And we're gonna head into this interview with bootcamp instructor, ma'am. Sarah Krinsky, welcome to the podcast.

Sara Krenski [00:04:04] Thanks for having me, Vance. I'm excited.

Vance Crowe [00:04:06] So you are one of the most well-known bootcamps in St. Louis, which is an interesting thing because I am in the middle of doing exercise week and I have asked around with people that know a lot about exercise and your name came up not once, but twice as somebody that I should talk to. So I got you on here and I'm really excited that you're here.

Sara Krenski [00:04:27] Thanks. We, my husband and I have both been teaching bootcamp for, for quite some time now. So we've, we've got to meet a lot of people over the years and it's, we've been doing it for over 15 years, so, so hopefully the reason you know is because we've met so many people and they've been in class and enjoyed the experience.

Vance Crowe [00:04:44] You know, it's funny, when the term bootcamp first came out, I was like, completely repelled by this idea, right? Like, who on earth would go put themselves in that position to do it? So what is a bootcamp and why do you term what you're doing that way?

Sara Krenski [00:05:01] I think we, I think first of all I should do is clarify the difference between the bootcamps that we run and maybe other bootcamps. 'cause when bootcamps, the fads start off about 15 years ago, and it was very drill sergeant like, where somebody would stand up in front of the class and yell at people. And that is not the type of bootcamp that we run. There are, there is a need for that. There are people who are very motivated by someone just yelling at them, degrading them. And if you need that, that is, that is your thing. And more power to you. There are bootcamps in St. Louis that operate like that. They're also very well known in the community. Those instructors stand up in front of you and yell at you. So be it. If that's what you like, that is, is not what we do. Our bootcamp is, I, the instructors are the drill sergeants. We have bootcamp names. The people in my class call me ma'am. The people in my husband's class call him, sir. But we're doing all the exercises with the people in the class. And so we're up in front of the class yelling, you know, let's do 25 bodybuilders and we'll, we'll count it like a military style class, but it's more of encouraging people like, come on, you can do it. And, and making it fun. There are a lot of health dynamics that go into the class. We do not use any equipment in our class. These are all very bootcamp style exercises. So if you were joining a bootcamp, like a military actual bootcamp, if you're doing jumping jacks and pushups and crunches and running it's variations of that Monday through Thursday.

Vance Crowe [00:06:31] You know, it's interesting you brought up the idea of nicknames or like that people call you, mam, when I heard about this philosophy that you guys have or this practice that you have, I think it was like, at first I thought it was kind of funny and then I realized, wait a second. Maybe this allows people to take on a persona that allows them to be a different person than who they are in their normal life, right? Somebody that thinks I'm not an exerciser, but then they show up at bootcamp and now they take on this persona. Is that right?

Sara Krenski [00:07:01] Yes and no. I think, I think it, it serves a couple verses. One, you get a name on your first day, you stand up in front of the class, which that's intimidating anyways for people to stand up in front of the class. But you, you get in, you stand up in front of the class and I say, tell us about yourself. Where are you from? What do you like to do for fun? Have you ever been to prison? You know, just silly things to get them, to get them loosened up. And, and people yell at other names. Sometimes they're super inappropriate, sometimes they fit along with what they do as a career. They're just, it's just to have fun. And then you have a bootcamp name and that is, that automatically makes you part of the group. And now that we're talking about more though, and you're talking about this other persona, it doesn't make me think that when people show up to an exercise class, any type of fitness class, it can be intimidating just to, just to show up. If you're not, if you're not into fitness, you may think like, maybe I need to lose a little weight first, or maybe I need to start walking first. And I think even after the first day, that bootcamp name kind of gives you a different persona of like, well, this is who I am in class. I can be this, it doesn't actually matter if I wasn't in shape before, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't able to run a mile or whatever it was that was making you angsty about showing up for an exercise class. But the real, the real purpose was to make people feel like they're part of this group. Because that's really the goal there. I mean, they making everyone feel comfortable, making them feel accepted. And if you're up in front of the class and people are yelling at silly things at 5 45 in the morning, you instantly realize like, okay, like this, I could do this.

Sara Krenski [00:08:34] These people are fun. This is gonna be a good, we're gonna have a good time.

Vance Crowe [00:08:37] So who is the type of person that shows up and, and is willing to put themselves through having a name to them and like, who does this?

Sara Krenski [00:08:46] Everyone, everyone. We have such an interesting group of people. Let's see. So it, it really is all ages. I, for a long time, I would say I was probably the youngest person in the class for, for quite some time. And the range is we, gosh, we have one gentleman who had shown up, who showed up. He was over 70 when he started. And, and that was, you know, that's not typical. So that was unique. We have other people who are middle aged who think I just, I wanna, I wanna be able to drink wine or eat candy and not have to worry about gaining weight. We have people who are CFOs of banks, we have business owners, we have people who are stay at home parents there. It's, it just runs the gamut. We have people who are iron men and iron women. We have people who can't even walk a block without taking to stop, you know, stop and rest for a minute. So it really is a whole hodgepodge of people who just come together and, and find joy and working out in the morning at 5 45 before going off to work or doing the things that they do throughout the day.

Vance Crowe [00:09:51] I think one of the things that was interesting that struck me about your particular bootcamp or your exercise program that's different is the longevity of it. Because you're talking, the people that I spoke with were like, I've been doing this for 15 years, I've been doing this for 12 years. And you think about there aren't very many things, very many habits or very many, I mean, maybe drinking or vices we take on for that long, but there's not very many positive direction things that people take on in that way. What do you think is, is making the longevity possible?

Sara Krenski [00:10:24] You know, when when you had sent me an email inviting me to be on the podcast, it really, it made me stop and think. And there have been lots of times where I'd stopped to think about about the community that, that the class has created. But really when we started off these boot camps, the goal was never to keep this going forever. This is not my full-time job. This is not really even a part-time job or my husband's job. We, we have, we have day jobs, we have careers, we have a family. We thought this was a fad that would last for about five years, and heck, if we can make a couple extra bucks doing it great. Like it, it really was just a, a thing that we, we both fell into and it was fun and, and we thought it'd be done within five years when the craze for bootcamp was over. The thing that evolved is that you have this fun group of, you have this group of people who are having a good time doing something that is not intrinsically fun. Like you don't think of exercise. It's like, oh yeah, I'm gonna go work out. This is got, we're gonna have a blast. But I think because of the comradery that developed in the class and the relationships that were developed, the motivation shifted and it became, it did it, it evolved into a community versus versus just a exercise class that I signed up for that I'm gonna attend for six weeks. I think initially when people signed up, they think I'm gonna, I wanna just get in shape or stay in shape. And then they became friends with people in the class and they felt like, oh, I have to show up so-and-so's expecting me to be there.

Vance Crowe [00:11:56] Yeah, there's something really deep about shared experience, particularly through suffering, right? Like if you endure something with another person and like, you know, like the, the way you fall in romantic love, right? You, you go through something difficult with a person and then you look and you're like, it was really fun that we went through that awful thing together. Or, you know, friendships that are created around that. It makes total sense to me that suffering would create, joint suffering would create a kind of bond among people.

Sara Krenski [00:12:25] Yeah, I, I agree. I, one thing that I think was, is the best example of that is, so what happens is we have all these people who come to class and lots of times they get really fit and then they become runners and sometimes we just, we lose them from the class, but they start becoming part of a different group of go campers who are now running on Fridays and Saturdays. And they may not be coming to class anymore, but we still see 'em on Fridays and Saturdays running. And, and one example is that of that is one woman who had started class, her name is Sweater. And I, and I asked her ahead of time if I could share this because it was my favorite story or experience from the last 15 years. She initially signed up for class because her husband's cancer had come back and it was the stress, it was gonna be a stress reliever for her. And she, she wasn't, she wasn't super outta shape or anything, but she wasn't the type who would go sign up for a 5K race. But after her husband passed away, she came back to bootcamp again and she said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a marathon this year. And I don't know if she actually agreed to the rest of us saying, okay, we're gonna do one too. But there were about 16 of us who said, well sweater's gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. And there were people who signed up for this marathon, marathon, Tucson, and we all went to Tucson did this marathon. And these were people who could not run a mile before and suffered through the, the heat of Arizona to run the, I mean, people ended up in the hospital 'cause it was so hot. But it was such incredible experience to bond over so much pain of running this marathon.

Sara Krenski [00:13:56] And again, that was the start of some of our, our trips together as friends was through

Vance Crowe [00:14:04] That. So as the leader of a bootcamp, you're in an interesting position, right? Because you need to show up every time. You not only need to show up, you better be there early and, and like you've gotta keep things going. You're helping other people overcome what, what people in the Articulate Ventures network, the group that I'm kind of head of, we call the voice of resistance, the thing that says, ah, you can stay in bed today. Ah, you don't have to go run. Oh, you're a little bit, but you as the leader, you don't get to hear the voice of resistance when it comes to, to bootcamp. So what is the experience like for you day in and day out, knowing you have to be there?

Sara Krenski [00:14:41] I think you're using the term leader strongly here. I think most of the people in class with it is, I am leading the class, I am there every day. I am coming up with the exercises every day. I'm trying, you know, I am trying to make the experience enjoyable, but it, I think the term leader would be laughed at if I said that in class. But I, I get paid to be there. Let's be like, not that we're making tons of money off this exercise class and you know, we, we tried to, you know, have a, you know, a big holiday party at then every year, a party at the end of every session. And it's, we're not doing this at this point to make money. You know, we do make money, but it's not tons of money. But I do get paid. So I don't think twice about like, you're not gonna think like, oh, not gonna go work today. Like that doesn't cross your mind. You get up and go to work. That's what you do in, in this day.

Vance Crowe [00:15:32] I think you're tricking yourself. I, I think, I think because you, you're, you're doing two ends of the, of the, of the thing against itself. You're saying, well, it's not that much money, but we do get paid, but the money is what motivates me. But if I was like, is the money motivating you to show up? You'd be like, no. So like there's something there that you've done that has allowed you to short circuit that voice of resistance. And I think it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing there.

Sara Krenski [00:15:57] I think yes and no. I, I mean people expect me to be there. I I'm gonna be there. I think another boot camper, I was reaching out to folks prior to this just to get an idea of what keeps them motivated because my, it was all speculation. I don't ask people why they show up to class. I don't ask them why they keep coming. Some of that information is extremely personal and it's so individualized and I know it evolves over time. And, and Stub had mentioned, look, people expect me to be there. I don't want, I don't wanna let them down at the same time I don't want other people to let me, let me down either. So I expect you to be there. I don't think seeing me there every morning is motivating people. I think seeing people like LDB who is a little drummer boy who hasn't missed a day in an entire year, not a single day of bootcamp, which that's, that's, that's crazy. He's paying and he hasn't missed a day. I get paid and I haven't missed a day, but I also get paid to be there. That's my, it's my, it's my company. I I should be there. It's expected. It's not expected that everyone in class while I expect him to show up every day, they don't show up every day. I think it's the other people in class that inspire people in class. And I don't always think they know they're inspiring other people. So if it's either someone who obviously has a goal and is showing up every single day and is getting stronger or losing weight that you're getting faster or it's someone who show up and just by looking at 'em, you, you can tell they, they show up to class. They can't do more than 10 pushups at a time, but then by, you know, two or three sessions in they can knock out 20 pushups.

Sara Krenski [00:17:30] That is incredibly, it's like seeing people running. If I see a really fit person running down the street, that's great. If I see somebody who, who has extra weight on them, I think that is far more inspiring because it's hard to run when you're in shape. It's a lot harder to run when you're not in shape. So I think having the different mix of people in the class is an inspiring different ways. So, so

Vance Crowe [00:17:53] Yeah, I think I totally agree with you. And I remember before I was in shape, before exercise was something that I used to do when I would see heavyset people running, I would be like, ha, look at them, they look so silly. I bet they'll quit, da da da da. Not actually having the conversation with myself of like, Hey, you're not out there running. And then when you go out and do it and you know what the experience is like of running when every single step has to be a conversation with you and, and as Mark Spock says, your conversation with pain, right? It's you having to say every single step doing it and, and not knowing will it ever get easier, right? Like, because for me, I don't think exercise had ever been easy. And not that it's easy now, but I don't have the same pain. And so when you look at a person that is enduring that pain at, at least as somebody that was outta shape and got in shape, you're like, yes, go, go. Just keep going. You're, you're on the path and there's something important to recognizing that.

Sara Krenski [00:18:54] Yeah. And I, I think oftentimes, and I don't think this goes just with fitness, I think this could be applied to work as well as that people have or anything in life, these preconceived ideas of what their limits are or what's possible. And it could be someone, you know, like the sweater example of, you know, sweaters sign up for a marathon. Well I'm not sign up for a marathon. Whereas like had sweater not sign up for one, a whole bunch of the other people in class would've never could even considered that they could do that. Or, or we have somebody named Espy, she likes to stitch and stands for a stitching babe, but not babe, maybe a different word. And you know, she'll yell out, we'll be doing something and she'll say, how about we do 300, like just jokingly. And I say, okay, let's do 300. And people are like, oh, sb I'm like, it seems crazy. It is crazy until we do it. And then like a higher number is what becomes crazy and you know, the 300 number is achievable. And so I think even things like that, seeing that in class, you're like, well there are things that are possible that people just, people just don't know. I think there's so much potential there that people have built these fictitious walls that don't even exist. And I think people overcome those walls in bootcamp.

Vance Crowe [00:20:09] There's something I think that's interesting about the way that you formulate your concept of leadership, right? Because you're talking about not being the drill sergeant, not being the person that stands out in front. You're like, oh, they wouldn't even consider me the leader. And yet you're gathering people together and so it's like a leadership from behind or it's some sort of like potential herd gathering or something. But I'm, I'm really deeply interested in this and I don't have a great question to get you to open up about it. But I want to a like, I wanna figure out is this just an intrinsic part of your personality? Did you, are you modeling what you saw someone else do?

Sara Krenski [00:20:47] No, I I think it's more intrinsic. I think it's more like being the captain of a sports team or being, you know, or a trillion squad or whatever it is. It, it, it's more of being on the same playing level of everyone as everyone else and coming from to them as a peer versus as an authority figure more of like more of like a servant leader than a, than an authoritative leader. And I think that drives, I think it makes it more relatable in general. So I think if you go to a fitness class and the person who's leading the fitness class, I have nothing against people who work in the fitness industry. I think that I would end up, I that could be an option if, you know, my other career fell apart or something, I could totally get into that. But I think people work in the fitness industry, that is their life. That is what they do. That is their, that is their passion. That's a huge part of who they are. I show up for bootcamp that is one hour of my day. I go to the rest of my life. I do my other real job the rest of the day and so do the people in the class. And I think it's, it builds that, it makes it a little bit more relatable and it, and maybe more achievable. 'cause they're thinking, well she, you know, she's, she's just gonna go onto her actual job after this, just like I am. She's gonna get up at five whatever time, show up, maybe even run before class and then come to class and then go to work. So it's not like I don't, there there there's less pressure because it's because because it's more relatable. Maybe I don't, I don't know.

Vance Crowe [00:22:15] Yeah, I mean I think of as you're talking about it, I think about the experience of being in football in high school and having coaches that were outta shape that couldn't run sprints and were just, they were, they were, you know, telling you how great they were in high school and now telling you that you had to go do these things and you being like, Hey, you're not out here doing this. And there's something to that because I think it creates an, in our minds a model that a coach is a person that stands up in front and does what we talked about in the beginning that yells. And there's that, there's a place for that, but it likely doesn't have the same longevity. You don't see a lot of people that have been yelled at for 15 years that, that wanna keep going back for that sort of punishment.

Sara Krenski [00:22:59] And let's, and let's be clear, I am sore at the end of like, when we have a hard workout, I am complaining just as much about, you know, about the workout or cursing myself later in the day of like, oh, I hate that ma'am, when I, when it hurts to sit down the toilet or walk down the stairs. 'cause my legs are so sore. So I am feeling the pain that they are feeling. And I know we talked about how there are all different types of people in the class at different fitness levels, it doesn't matter. We're gonna keep pushing until we can't keep going. So even if you have to stop and take a breath at, at, you know, 10 reps and then jump back in and when we're at 40 reps, so be it. But I'm gonna try to do all of 'em just because why not?

Vance Crowe [00:23:38] And so what have you learned about helping people keep going when, when they're just starting out? Like what do you know about the, the person that's struggling on every step or on every rep?

Sara Krenski [00:23:52] I don't know. I mean I that's a, that's a good question. I think being able to pull from the experience of the class and just giving other examples. Giving them, you know, if you're running with them or walking with them or whatever it is saying like, you know, when I started this class, so I started the class as a participant in the Webster Rose class and I teach the Kirkwood class, but when I started the class, I didn't even show up to the, to the Thursday class 'cause I was so sorry I couldn't get outta bed. And I think being able for them to see like, oh, she's instructing the class and she was in that much pain that she didn't even show up to class. Okay, maybe may, maybe I can do this and then give me another example as of, you know, so and so, you know, ran a 12 minute mile when they started class and now they can run a seven minute mile. So just, we're all approaching this at the same location, at the, you know, at your own level. Do what you can. And you know, we stamp, I stamp at the front of the class the first day of class and give this whole first day speech. It's the exact same speech that I've given every session for the last 15 plus years. And one of the rules is give a hundred percent and a hundred percent. And I, and I clarify a hundred percent looks different for everyone, but why in the world are you gonna wake up this early pay money and not try your hardest and and your hardest is gonna look different than my hardest And no one's gonna make fun of your fitness ability. I think that's a big piece of this class is no one we take ourselves. I think, well not everyone, I think a lot of people in the class take themselves serious who don't, we don't take the class serious we're it's too early, it's working out, it's hard.

Sara Krenski [00:25:28] Life is hard, let's have fun.

Vance Crowe [00:25:31] Yeah, there's, when I think about the pushing through the times when you're able to do something over the long term, it is one of those things where you need to take it seriously, but not so seriously that you are punishing yourself for things or saying that you're not good enough. And I remember as being like a young person when I first, when I would try and exercise and never be consistent, it was because I was always like, well, a real person that exercises runs 10 miles, right? Well, a real person can do. And then when you're just like, Hey, I'm just going to get out here. The getting out here is actually what matters. And then you do start at mile, it's gonna be 30 degrees out and I'm gonna be running, I might as well run fast. But the, the, I think that the biggest hurdle, at least for me was to just figure out a way to just keep showing up.

Sara Krenski [00:26:22] Yeah. I, I think there are several people in class who feel like that, that the hardest, that the hardest part is just getting outta bed, getting out. As soon as you're there you can do it or not do it. Like you could just socialize. There are people who come to class barely work out, but talk to people the whole time. And that's, that's fine too. I think that's kind of what makes the class unique. They're funny. It, it's entertaining for the rest of us, but just, just showing up. Just, just be there is you are doing more than the person who didn't get outta bed. You will like yourself more later in the day for doing it. You might be a little bit more tired, but you'll feel better about yourself.

Vance Crowe [00:27:00] So you mentioned a couple of times the word career, and I've been thinking a lot about this word, right? Like for a long time the part of the American dream was you have this career and it is fulfilling and it's something that you do. And I'm starting to wonder if one, if a career is fulfilling for everyone or if it's something you have to do, but there's, there's something odd about this word. And since you've said it twice, I thought I would just bring it up. When you say career, what do you mean?

Sara Krenski [00:27:32] That's a good, i I really mean like my day job, the thing that pays the bills, the thing that I, you know, I I try to work hard during the day and achieve more things and just always do better and better. But I would agree with your point about, I don't think everyone enjoys their job always fulfilled by their job. But to, I, I am, I am one of those people who finds my identity and my career and my career shifts. I've had a, I've had a huge shift in, in career over the last, you know, six years or so. I, I'd always worked in marketing and communications for nonprofits and I loved it. I, I love working. I I and I, if I didn't love it, I'd move on and do something different. If, if I didn't like the, if I didn't like what I was doing at the time, at least I loved the people, but I've always, even when I was younger, even when I was a teenager, I loved working. I found it very fulfilling. I found it, it helped me build independence and I shifted. I had a whole shift in career from, you know, marketing communications for nonprofits to this, this Montessori world through, you know, we had child and through researching preschools, we did more research on preschools than I did on colleges and fell in love with Montessori education. And through that, you know, ended up shifting my entire career to launching a Montessori school and now working for a Montessori organization that is opening Montessori schools all over the world. And that is a, never had I planned to shift my career in that direction, but I think obviously I think my career is, you know, what pays my bills. I, I need, we do need to make money.

Sara Krenski [00:29:02] We do need to, you know, pay our bills. That's important. And at the same time, I don't think you should work somewhere. I mean, maybe now isn't not the time to be preaching this type of message because it's COVID and people are losing their jobs. But, but at the end of the day, if you're not fulfilled, if you don't feel like you're fully contributing to society, you're not growing as an individual. I, I don't, I don't know why you would stay in that position, but I know everyone has different motivations and drivers and that's not what everyone's looking for. But, but that's how I would define career.

Vance Crowe [00:29:32] Yeah, I mean it's been an interesting thing because for a very long time I had the mantra of like, your job should fulfill you. And for me, I've been very fortunate that if I don't like the job or don't feel fulfilled by what I'm doing, I've got many, many other options. But now I'm starting to question that idea. Like, I think there are some people that finding their work to be fulfilling is really important, but there are other people that the work just has to get done so that the other things that they do find fulfilling are, are available to them. I could be totally wrong, but it's been something where I, I think that that like, we have this idea that has become so deeply enmeshed in our culture about careers that I think it maybe has hijacked our thinking about the fullness of, of life, right? Like you're talking about how much fulfillment people get out of, out of bootcamp, right? And that I, and so I don't know, I I don't really have a point here other than it's something I'm working on and I, I think that my intrinsic idea about the value of a career is not automatically correct.

Sara Krenski [00:30:35] I don't know. I think it can change too. I think it could change on your situation. When I was, when I was thinking and preparing for this interview and thinking about bootcamp, I was thinking about like, there's this this practical idealism of, of the idea of working out, like you wanna push and push and push it, but at the end of the day, like we have real life things going on. Work might be really stressful or you might have a family situation going on. And guess what that working out like setting that goal to to, you know, lose a certain amount of weight or run a certain pace or whatever the goal is. It's, it's actually not a priority right now. And I think the same thing can happen at work of like, I have this great, you know, I concept of what my career should be or wants it when I want to be. And you know, then you have a baby at home or COVID hits and, and the world shuts down or your business is gone. And I think then it does become a, a matter of, okay, let's shift our priorities. Let's, how do we put food on the table? How do we, at the end of the day, maybe it is just a job, but that doesn't mean it can't be fulfilling. And it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean you can't, I think Dr. Montessori always said all work is noble. No work is what's not noble. And so e you know, if you're used to being a bank, CEO and now you are, I don't know, a teller or you're, you're working at a restaurant, whatever it is that would be in your mind, shift your perception of what you thought you were going to do and what you're doing now, it doesn't matter. You could still make a difference. I feel like you could, it could still be fulfilling and when, when this period in time changes to something else in your priorities shift or you have time for your priorities to shift, that's a luxury that some people don't have.

Sara Krenski [00:32:18] Then you,

Vance Crowe [00:32:18] Yeah, I think your, your idea about noble work, that's actually probably the, the thing I'm hitting on with the career. I wouldn't have thought of it this way, but I think that the orientation around career or striving oftentimes gets people to overlook the fact that doing things with great care, doing the details with great care is actually what the value is, right? Like achieving to get to whatever spot you think is going to give you fulfillment is actually missing the point, right? And so I, I think it's, there's just something important about this that I don't really understand and I think that it's been very good for me to be questioning is it the achievement or is it the journey? And I think that you have figured out, at least with your bootcamp, that the journey is act you found a way to make the journey of being in shape actually enjoyable.

Sara Krenski [00:33:09] Yeah, I think. But I also think that could, I think you pull that into most aspects of life too. I, I don't, I think I hope, and I at the same time, I mean maybe I, maybe I look at work my, my day job differently than I, than most people do. I don't think all people fully enjoy going to work and I don't think they're motivated to, to find a career in which they love or do something which they love doing. I am. So maybe that's, that outlook is just a little different. But I agree. I regardless of if it's something you're passionate about or not, you should, you should give a great care. You should treat the people around you with kindness. You should, you should go above and beyond because you can. And you know, Dr. Montessori had this concept of maximum effort. You know, you look at a child and they run because they can and they're gonna run as hard as they can. Like when you see kids running, they're smiling. You don't usually see adults smiling when they're running, but you kids are like laughing and they're running as hard as they can. You know, a kid will try to lift something, something super heavy because he can or thinks he can. And at some point that, that I, the concept of maximum effort, we, we, I feel like we'd lose it into adulthood and, and like should, you should just try your hardest because you're able to like, that is, that is a gift. And I think real, like per perception is a big part of, of all this, of realizing like we are, we're lucky.

Sara Krenski [00:34:40] Like we have the ability to get up and go work out in the morning. Our hearts are healthy, our bodies are healthy. We, we are why let's do it because we can. You should, you can, you know, that's

Vance Crowe [00:34:50] You you were reminding me, I have a younger brother named Jordan and he used to play soccer and when he would come off of the field when he's like in first grade or second grade, his face would be so red covered in sweat, like having gone as hard as he possibly could and his face was on fire, you know, just so happy. And I think about like, I can't imagine do doing exercise and having that feeling and I wonder what the switch is. I'd never actually considered that. You could as an adult try to cultivate that.

Sara Krenski [00:35:23] I don't, maybe it is just looking at, instead of just looking at with this narrow lens of like, ugh, I have to go work out or ugh, I have to go work. And maybe stepping back and just thinking like, yeah, I can just go work out. Like I think even if you are lying to yourself, I, I'm not lying to myself, but I, I do think sometimes I do think sometimes it takes that for some people to lie to themselves of like, to change that perspective of ugh, to like, I get to out like I am fortunate, like if I'm running a marathon and I'm at mile 21, 22, I, you know, I start, I start smiling to convince my brain because it, it does trigger something in your brain where it's like, oh, she's happy 'cause she's smiling. She must be ha you know, she must feel good. And it's, it's like lying to my brain to convince myself like, I feel good. I like this is, I'm gonna make it like I feel good. I don't feel good at mile 21 and a marathon. I don't know who feels good at mile 21. I feel awful at mile 21. But if I can convince my brain like trick myself, then it changes the perspective. It changes, it changes the whole experience.

Vance Crowe [00:36:30] Yeah. Mark Spewak really it, when I interviewed him earlier for this series, he really had some ideas that really blew my mind. And one he called the three quarters problem. And the three quarters problem is when you get three quarters of the way through something you've already gotten past all of the, Hey, I'm gonna do this, and now, oh, I'm doing this. And now you're just at the point where it's like, I'm in the middle of doing this and yeah, I could probably finish, but I'm, I'm not good enough or oh, it's too hard or oh whatever. And it's right before that point when you get to the last five or 10% where, where people are cheering for you and every, but, but most people give up on themselves for that three quarters area of the problem. And that's what he's saying a coach does is try and help you get through that. And your thought about smiling through that or trying to find that is a really good mental model for me to try to try and think about because it's there how you're having all these conversations in your head, right? Like when you're running a marathon, I've never run a marathon. I'm guessing you probably hear several different versions of, of ma'am in your mind. Is that right?

Sara Krenski [00:37:37] Yeah, I, to be quite honest, I, I don't know if I'm just super like to a point of sometimes I'm overly confident in myself and thinking I can do something. So I don't tend to have that message of like, I can't do this or I'm not, I've never thought I'm not good enough. I don't, I don't see walls that other people tend to see. I don't even understand how people see walls. Like if, if someone else has done it well then I can certainly do it. Like I just, and even if I know, like, again, I'm not saying you could just go out the door and do it, but I do have conversations with myself. It does go from like, man, I'm awesome to like, oh my gosh, this is really hard. Okay, now I'm gonna start thinking about how thankful I am that I can do this. And I, the, the conversation shifts.

Vance Crowe [00:38:20] So is this intrinsic in you? Like, so I, I guess like the, the challenge of this conversation that I'm having is, your thinking is so different and yet so subtly different than most other people, right? So you're saying, I guess I don't really see walls or, or if I, if I run into that three quarters problem, I find thankfulness. Is that something that you, somebody taught you? Is that something people can learn or was that always the way that you were?

Sara Krenski [00:38:50] I don't know. I, I don't, I, I don't know the being excited about, about being able to do something. I'm trying to think back to like, in high school, I, I got to be on the soccer team. We didn't play sports growing up. So getting to play sports, you know, just as part of your education. That was, that was super exciting. And the fact I got to go to practice after school, I remember people being annoyed with the fact that it's like, we have practice today. You know, I was a freshman in high school, we have soccer practice. I, and of course they probably hate me 'cause I had zero skills, but I was really enthusiastic, like so enthusiastic that I got to be one of the captains. And it wasn't 'cause I was voted captain, it was because the coach is like, man, she is excited to be here.

Vance Crowe [00:39:33] That's awesome. That is the greatest.

Sara Krenski [00:39:36] I don't know. And it maybe it was, I, I don't know if it, I don't know if I was taught that or, or my parents always did. I don't know if they actually believed it or if I, they just told me it and I, and I believed that they believed it. I don't know that you can do anything you want. And sure, of course I can. Why couldn't I? It just, and I, and I think the same about other people. So when, when they say, well I could, I could never do that. I think why would they think that? Like, other people have done it, so of course you can do it.

Vance Crowe [00:40:06] So what was your experience of finding Montessori as a, as a education philosophy then?

Sara Krenski [00:40:13] Oh, so really it was all through my daughter. I mean, we, we visited, I don't know, a dozen preschools. My husband, my husband worked funny shifts at the time, so he could have actually stayed home with our daughter. And, and then, but she was, I mean she, she's the only child. So she needed to socialize. We needed her to be edu we weren't thinking about education. We were thinking about childcare at the time. She was two and a half. And we visited a whole bunch of schools and we came upon Faith Academy of Montessori, and it's this little caboose train station school in Webster, right there on the railroad tracks on Gore. And I walked in the door and there are 30 kids under the age of six, quietly eating lunch. They had glasses that didn't have lids on, like actual glassware that didn't have lids on 'em. That one child said something out, you know, loud. And another child was like, like, can you, can you please keep it down? And I was like, what, what is going on? Like, why are these children acting like adults? And you know, and then later on they were fold, they were folding the napkins after lunch. And it was, and these children were so independent and grown up that I, I was like, sign me up. Say like, we want an independent child. This is amazing. And I think just through that experience and getting to know Montessori more, you know, we were all in, we, we signed our child up, we attended the parent education classes, the head of the school who I, I now love, she is part of our family. We are part of her family. I will forever be indebted to her. Her name is Debbie Winter. She's amazing.

Sara Krenski [00:41:45] I am so grateful for everything she had. She's taught us and about, about humans. Like she really does believe she, you know, she took on the Montessori philosophy of there's so much potential that these small humans have. These are, these are the creators of men, these babies, these infants and toddlers are the creators of men. If we had higher expectations of what they could do at every level, think of what they could actually achieve. She had so much respect for these children out of what they can become. And it's so just, and that is what most Montessoris have. I don't think that's unique to Debbie. I think what's unique is, you know, you think of a preschool teacher of, oh, they're so sweet loving and she is pretty hardcore. I mean, she expects a lot of these young children. But at the end of the day, my child loves Debbie Winter more than any other teacher she'll probably ever have. She's in sixth grade now and she still says, oh, I miss Faith Academy. And, and she works so hard and she learned, you know, they're doing the, the Pythagorean Theorem in kindergarten. And it was, it was mind blowing. And not because they were drill sergeants, they're definitely not drill sergeants. There's, there's so much love and respect for the human child and what they can achieve that they're not saying, oh, because the state says you can't, and I don't wanna get into politics of education. But, you know, there are certain levels or these concepts, again, it goes back to this idea of these preconceived walls that don't exist. And these children are just sponges and they can just, they just soak it all up and, and we shouldn't limit them or say you can't do something.

Sara Krenski [00:43:23] At the same time, there's grace and courtesy in this. Like we expect them to be kind to human beings in addition to achieving great academic skills and all. It was very holistic, you know, and I think you could pair that with exercise classes as well. Like, it's very holistic. It's not, we're not just there to work out. We're gonna have, we're gonna enjoy each other's company, we're gonna have a good time and actually after class we're not hang out and go on vacation together. Like, it is more than just that. And I think that was my introduction to Montessori that happened after my introduction to bootcamp. And I think it just opened my eyes of, not that I didn't respect children by any means, but I never thought of like looking at a child and thinking, I have so much respect for you.

Vance Crowe [00:44:04] I knew it, I knew there was some reason why you were different. And I'm so glad we've gone down this path. Like you, like th this Montessori concept, tell me about it, gimme this crash course on how is it that they got children to do glasses and folding napkins like that's so outside of the norm. What is it that they do to, to instill that in children?

Sara Krenski [00:44:27] Everything, you know, they start, they start very young, so everything builds on stuff. So at a time when, let's go back to like infancy and, and I, I wanna preface this with, I am actually only Montessori trained at the adolescent level. Montessori training is incredibly intense. And there are diff there are like, you can be trained at the zero to three, the three to six elementary or adolescent level. So I'm, I'm only trained at the adolescent level. So I know that what I'm going share here is, is just based on my training. But even if you start back infancy, you know, you go into a preschool and they're putting them in chairs and locking 'em down because that's, that's safe, right? Like if you have to turn away the child's safe and that, well actually, if we just keep them all on the floor, if their mattresses are on the floor, if they're, if everything's down low and they are still safe because they're not going to fall off, you know, fall off a table or off a chair, they actually have the freedom to move. There's this whole freedom and responsibilities thing that goes on throughout the whole spectrum of, you know, of life of they are, they're trying to develop how to move and like all these little pieces of their body and their, and how they speak and how they, you know, use their hands and their feet and they're all working independently. And then they all can, they come together to work as one and then, and then, and then you can move on to the next stage of development. So after every the child, you know, learns how to move, and if you walk into a real Montessori classroom, you'll see like the mattresses are on the floor because I don't need to tell that child when they can go to bed or when they can wake up from a nap, the child's tired.

Sara Krenski [00:45:57] They will actually, if you prepare the environment for them and remove the hurdles, you know, remove the things that are locking them down, but keep it safe. I mean, I'm not saying let's, let's, you know, I I just, you, I mean, don't take away the safety piece that is key for, for any child, but you do need to remove the hurdles and give them a chance to develop and, and that development comes at any stage. So then they go into this, this three to 6-year-old range. And look, we've already at age two, they're already using like shock glasses as baby glassware. So the environment is prepared for them. We're not gonna give them an adult glass. They can't even hold their hands, aren't big enough to hold an adult glass. But they can hold a shot glass and guess what they're gonna spill? They're probably gonna spill a hundred times until the day they don't spill. I mean, and then it's like, oh, I get it. There's, there's these built-in corrections of if they spill, guess what? They get wet. Like it's, it's self-correct. If they drop a glass on the floor, we have to clean it up. Like it, it's just what happens, you know? That's just a matter of fact. You're not giving them a bottle of age two. You're not.

Vance Crowe [00:47:08] And so by removing, I guess this is an interesting concept because if you remove the feedback mechanism for a child to find out like, oh, if I tip the glass over too far, then I get wet. If you remove that by putting a lid on it, then the child doesn't know what, how far can I tip this glass? Right? And all you're doing is extending the amount of time before they have to come to that realization.

Sara Krenski [00:47:29] Exactly. And the same thing. So even so by the time they're three or you know, four or five, they using it glass is no big deal. And guess what? If they spilled the spill buckets right over there, you've already got the spill bucket lesson. Oh, I loved when we got the spill bucket at home. It was the great, like I'd take photos of my child using the spill bucket 'cause she'd already gotten this bill bucket lesson and really like, let's be honest, she's not gonna do an awesome job cleaning up this an orange juice spill on the ground. It's gonna be let's, it's probably still gonna be sticky and when she leaves, I'm gonna clean it up again. But in her mind, like, oh, I made a mess, I can clean it up. And, and, and there's no preconceived idea of like, I'm three, I shouldn't have to clean this up. No. It's like, I made the mess. I should have to clean it up. It's my mess. And that's building that independence and awareness for self and courtesy for others in the classroom. And it just builds on that. And even like with writing, like they, they have 'em wash the tables, but they have 'em wash 'em in this motion because guess what, when they start doing cursive, which is what they learn in Montessori, they're using this motion and everything builds on each other. And, and really she, Dr. Montessori, if you read more even about the, the way she took material, she took abstract math and turned 'em into materials and it's just, she's, she's a genius. There's so many parts, like I'm going over the life skills basic side of it, but the actual, the academic side of it is just mind blowing.

Vance Crowe [00:48:52] Oh, I'm, I'm hooked, I'm this, you've got me right I've heard a lot of people talk about Montessori, but nobody has given me this understanding of it. And right now I have a three month old and I, in my mind I've been like, yeah, I got a good two years before I have to start reading these child development books. But now I'm like, you want, oh God, oh no, I gotta start now.

Sara Krenski [00:49:13] Everyone should read the Absorbent Mind. If nothing else, it's written by Dr. Montessori, if nothing else. Just to get a better understanding of what is possible. I don't, I don't know why we think these children, if this was a hundred years ago, we children did way more when they're younger than, than they do now. And I don't know, I just, I think, I think we'd all be better off if we, in every aspect of life, if we took away what is like, here's, here's what's expected and you don't need to go beyond that, or we don't expect you to go beyond that.

Vance Crowe [00:49:46] So I have been like, you know, I have this little child that I can now experiment with and it is nothing but joy for me. I have to like limit the amount of time that I'm I, because I have to go to work every once in a while. And so the other day I figured out when she is, so she will mimic my mouth motions and I can actually get her, prompt her to make sounds way before the books tell you that, that she really can. And so she started to like actually enunciate sounds and differentiate them. But what I figured out that was really magical was if I record her doing it and I play it back for her, she can mimic along with the recording at the same pace. It is astounding. Like I, I don't know how anybody gets anything done when they have an infant or a newborn around them because there's, it's so fascinating what they can do.

Sara Krenski [00:50:39] Our experiences with infants are very different. 'cause I can tell you I had a really hard time. We were, she, our infant cried nonstop. So to me I was like, why, why do people do this to themselves? Like, this is miserable.

Vance Crowe [00:50:52] Oh yeah. I mean, that's the other side of it. So like, you know, I'm getting like six, like five hours of sleep max. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm definitely struggling and it's the talking that makes it like, I'll do any of this for you, violet. Just give me a couple of words. Just keep going.

Sara Krenski [00:51:08] God. It, it is a good thing. They're cute, right? Like, and I, I always wish people, when they have new babies, I just, I hope they sleep well. I hope you have a baby who sleeps well, that is like the greatest gift ever.

Vance Crowe [00:51:20] I think that this must be a part of, of evolution or some kind of the bonding with the parents because there's no way that there was a selection pressure towards children that, that, you know, cried or had these problems. Those would've been the harder children to have kept alive. And so there must be something that happens through that bonding with the parents or through whatever is going on there that actually makes them more resilient. And so I'm trying very hard not to be resentful of the nonstop crying when I can't figure out the problem.

Sara Krenski [00:51:52] I think I, I I think irrational love for your child is what helps us evolve as humans because there is no way, I mean, who, what other analyst, what other animal is going to put up with all of this and care for a child for 18 years or longer? And if, if, yeah, just I irrational love I think has helped with human EE evolution.

Vance Crowe [00:52:16] I think it pushes the human mind, at least mine to be able to have the capacity for more patients than I've ever had. Right. Like, so you're sitting there being like, I, no matter what input I put into this child, the output that I want doesn't come. And no matter how many gradations or differentiations I do, the output still doesn't come eventually, most of the time human beings quit when that happens.

Sara Krenski [00:52:42] I agree. But you

Vance Crowe [00:52:42] Can quit.

Sara Krenski [00:52:44] I think having a child is the most humbling experience you could have. And I think, and like if it, if it doesn't break yet, it is going to make you hopefully a far more patient person. And, and I just, it was, it was extremely humbling for me as a, as an individual. I, I think most things come pretty easy. I'm very fortunate that most things come pretty easy. To me that was just so humbling. It did, it did not come as easy as it probably comes to most moms or parents.

Vance Crowe [00:53:16] Yeah. And I think that there is like, maybe just like, you know, we have this kind of mantra that everybody should, should wanna have a career and this will be so fulfilling. The aspect of of raising a child that you don't understand is that maybe 80 to 90% of it is you suffering. And that like, you just get these glimpses of, of times when it's not suffering that, that you're like, okay, that was all worth it. But like, I mean, when before they learn how to smile, then everything is input and you get virtually zero positive output. Like the only positive output you get is they're not screaming at me.

Sara Krenski [00:53:54] Well, and then I think the only thing, I think the thing that helped me is just like the same, I guess it's the same idea of like, just take into perspective here. Like, look, you have a healthy child. Like I realize we are super lucky. I realize I'm only sleeping two hours a night. And that is lucky compared to a lot of parents whose children are sick. And it and realizing like, hey, this is not gonna last. This period of no sleeping or, or colic or whatever it is, is, is not a real problem. It, it will pass. It's gonna pass. It has to pass.

Vance Crowe [00:54:25] As older parents, I can say one of the best things that I accidentally did for, for myself was that I was in shape. Like, and although it's much harder to stay in shape and I don't need as well as I was before, but, but by being older parents we're just tired all the time. And so by being able to, I, I think I was telling Annie this e every father should go do squats for some period of time before they have a child. Because eventually hit a point where you're holding the child and you're sitting down and you wanna stand up without waking the child up. If you've done squats, you finally get paid back for those awful lifts because you can stand up without needing to like put your hand down and bend over or do all these weird things. So it's the best pitch I can make for doing squats is if you ever have a child, it will pay off.

Sara Krenski [00:55:16] Yeah. Whereas we were like, she's sleeping. Don't move. Don't make it.

Vance Crowe [00:55:25] So if, if people are interested in finding out more about Montessori, you had mentioned a book. What book do you think that is? So

Sara Krenski [00:55:33] It depends at what level you wanna find out. Vance, I think you should read The Absorbent Mind. I think you would love The Absorbent Mind. That is a Dr. Montessori book. There's another book. I can't remember.

Vance Crowe [00:55:44] Why do you say that? Why, why do you think I would like that?

Sara Krenski [00:55:47] Because I think it paints the picture of what Dr. Montessori sa and the human potential of individual, it digs more into the theory of Montessori. Whereas like, if, I think if you're just a, if you are a parent who actually I don't have time to read about the theory of Montessori and really dig into this all, you know, the whole pedagogy, I really wanna know why this would benefit me. I think you should read Montessori of Madness and it was written by a, a father of children who, who, you know, he stumbled upon Montery school that he enrolled his children in and then he found out they can be independent children or individuals at, at three years old. You know, they, they can actually pour themselves cereal or make, you know, make food for themselves at that age or whatever. I think, I think for the lay person, Montessori Madness is a great book if, especially if you have young children. If you don't have young children anymore, I don't think you need need to read that. But if you really wanna learn more about Montessori, I think the Absorbent Mind is, is a wonderful book. Eye Open or any of Dr. Montessori's lectures, gosh, she has so many lectures that, you know, educating the human potential, that's another great, they're super, that one's super short. So anyone could read that one quickly. But you should just learn, I think it will open your eyes to human potential in general and maybe just give you a better perspective, not just of education, but humans human spirit.

Vance Crowe [00:57:09] Oh, I love the sound of that. And, and the, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna wrap this up because I think this has been a great interview and I think the thing that you just said captures what I think is so great about it is that you have a way to let the human spirit free. I heard from a lot of people that like how impactful your boot camps have been and the way that you lead them or guide them or whatever that is. And so I am now inspired, I will go read some Montessori books and I'm really glad that you came on to be a part of this exercise week series. If people live in St. Louis and they're interested in, in finding out about your bootcamp or your husband's bootcamp, where can they go to learn more?

Sara Krenski [00:57:53] So the, we run our boot camps through the rec center. So mine is run through the Kirkwood Rec center. We're not going inside right now because of COVID. We, we all prefer just to stay outside so we can socially distance. My husband runs his through the Webster class, I'm gonna throw out there, the Kirkwood class is a more difficult class.

Vance Crowe [00:58:12] And, and so are you guys planning on going through the winter? Will you do it in the cold, in the, in the snow and all that?

Sara Krenski [00:58:19] We, we do have class when it's cold outside, but usually we're in the gymnasiums when it's not COVID time. We could, we could still socially distance in the gymnasium. Right now we're just pushing it off as long as we can just for safety reasons. But it might be, it might get to a point where we have to go in the gym, but we'll see. I mean, you could just throw in some gloves and a hat. You'll be fine.

Vance Crowe [00:58:40] Amen. I love working out outside, particularly if it's cold. I, it's, that's my favorite. 'cause then to use mark sp walk's word, anytime you see somebody else doing it, you have this sense of unity with them. Right. Like, you're like, Hey, we're suffering together. Well ma'am Sarah Krinsky, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Sara Krenski [00:58:57] Thanks for having me, Dan. I appreciate it.