From Kenyan Village Without Electricity to Nurse in Oklahoma: Samuel Maondu's Journey

Samuel Maondu [00:00:00] Because we don't have electricity, we don't have refrigerators, so we don't keep perishables in the house as the crow flies on the Vance Crowe podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:10] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today's episode, it's probably different than every other episode I've ever done because this was actually a reunion with a person that meant a great deal to me at a very important time in my life when I became a Peace Corps volunteer. You get dropped off in the middle of a village in you don't know anybody, you don't speak the language. You don't know how to do. Really simple things like how do I go to the bathroom when there's no flushing toilet? Or how do I live in a world where I only know some of the words to describe what I need or what I want? And I met this young guy that always had a smile on his face. He was so deeply curious about everything that I said. And the interesting thing was, while he was always so agreeable, so happy and congenial, he was deeply curious. And so we would sit for long hours because we didn't have the internet. There were no cell phones that you could just whittle away time. And we talked and we got to know each other. And in many ways, he became a brother to me. We shared music, we talked about books. He would go jogging with me. And we spent all of this time learning about an entirely different culture that at the time was almost like going back thousands of years in time in order to see how do people live when they only have a few of the luxuries of modernity. So while they had a car, the the gasoline to drive it was so expensive that you could only do it in little s spikes. You would walk everywhere you went, every meal had to be prepared fresh from the start because you didn't have things like refrigeration.

Vance Crowe [00:01:48] I ended up leaving the Peace Corps rather promptly. I, I got really, really sick after I was living in another location away from Samuel, and I never had a chance to really follow up and catch up with him. And since then, he has made his life completely transform from a boy that I met that was barefoot and didn't have a electricity to now being a nurse in Oklahoma. And I think in this moment that we're all going through right now, it is a tremendous joy to see a man figure out how to find his place in the world, how to pick himself up and carry himself so far beyond his dreams that you'll hear say, I didn't even have this dream that I'm living now. This is a phenomenal conversation. And I have to say that I was probably my least good at doing the interview because I found myself being so full of emotions that it was difficult to keep myself focused. I felt a sense of joy being around Samuel that is difficult for me to put into words. And you'll see at the end of this interview that I crack up a little bit and I ended up getting a chance to talk to Samuel for a while after this interview. But you'll see that it is something truly profound to hear a man succeed and achieve his dreams, and then look around and say, Hey, everybody, stay focused. Control what you can control and make things happen. So I am so excited to invite you into this conversation with somebody that has meant so much to me that I can barely put it into words and, and to have this exploration into the mind of somebody that came from a completely different world than all of us.

Vance Crowe [00:03:31] So I hope you enjoy talking with my friend Samuel. Samuel Maondu, welcome to the podcast.

Samuel Maondu [00:03:51] Thank you very much, Vance. It's a pleasure.

Vance Crowe [00:03:53] It is a, it is a moment of sheer joy for me to see you because we lived together for a very important point in my life in Kenya, and it was an experience that I had. And then once I left Kenya, poof, it was gone. And it isn't until now that we are reuniting and I, I feel a sense of unbridled joy like I've not felt in years.

Samuel Maondu [00:04:16] I'm excited. I'm excited to see you too.

Vance Crowe [00:04:19] So let's talk a little bit about where you're from because I think a lot of people hear about somebody being from Africa or from Kenya and they don't have any sense for what that means. And because I had a chance to live there, I know that the first time I ever met you, you didn't have shoes on. You were walking around outside with no shoes on, which was like people all around were doing that. Tell me about the situation that you were born into in Kitui, Kenya.

Samuel Maondu [00:04:50] So I think one thing, Vance, is that I think when you grow up in a, in a place whereby it's remote and you dunno the world around you, everything seems normal to you. And until you count of you come out of that situation, you move to the, around the world, that's when you realize how things are different. So just a little bit of me, I come from Kenya, Kitui County and I was, I'm a second born in a family of six. So I went to my, I did my primary school education in the village. Then after that I went to high school just within the county. It's one of the top most performing high schools in the county. So I was an average student, but I liked, well one thing that I liked most was the subject that I liked most was physics, chemistry, and biology. I didn't like Swahili, but you know, we speak Swahili in our country, but I didn't like Swahili. Okay, well

Vance Crowe [00:05:57] People don't know that the Kenyans don't speak Swahili natively. You, you spoke Kaku, right?

Samuel Maondu [00:06:03] No, I speak Kikamba,

Vance Crowe [00:06:05] Cucumber,

Samuel Maondu [00:06:06] Cucumber. And we have kiku in our country. So we have so many tribes. We have like 43 tribes in our country. So that means 43 languages spoken in our country. Then we have this national language, which Swahili, that's what most of the people speak then. But in school we have like English as a primary language of instruction. So when I cleared high school, but that was back in 2005, that's when I came. And 2006 I went to meet, I, I came and met you when I was doing my computer and you really taught me a lot. I remember that book you gave me the Utopia.

Vance Crowe [00:06:46] Oh, Thomas More. Yes.

Samuel Maondu [00:06:48] Yeah, I read that book diligently and I remember I met some notes about that book. And I, even after that, I even used to make reference to that book because after we parted, I think we parted in September, 2006 and in January, 2007, I, I was back in the village and there was a a a primary school, no, a high school that was starting, but they didn't have enough teachers. So they chose me to be one of the teachers to just teach the students. And I was teaching chemistry, agriculture and English. I think that's where I started perfecting my English skills and my English speaking. So that was back in 2007 January until up to 2000. And up to September, 2007, I was teaching English.

Vance Crowe [00:07:44] You know, I remember the experience of the two of us meeting and we didn't actually live in the same house you were from the family structure that I was from. So there was a family, Nicodemus that took me in and his wife and it, and they, they treated me as one of their own. And you were a cousin and I remember you coming over and you were a little bit younger than me, and I found that because you were younger than me, you didn't have the same hangups about not being good at English or not knowing how to communicate something. So when we would talk and we would hit an idea that neither of us, I didn't know the Swahili for it or the kamba for it, like I just, I I I was struggling. You and I could pantomime out and work out things. So we bonded really closely together because when you're out in a strange land, you don't, you don't have anybody. Did you experience that when you moved to the United States? Who did you find to help you get connected to culture?

Samuel Maondu [00:08:39] In fact, I think this preparation started back in Kenya because I joined an agency and we knew because of change of of geographical places, I knew there would be like a kind of a shock because of the, of the culture. So when I came over, I came over in, in the 26th of January, 2019, that's when I flew over to the US and the NJZ like accommodated us. They had to take us through a program, a cultural transition program. And I think that one prepared us very well to, to face the, the life outside the H agency. And after that, that's when I came over to Oklahoma City.

Vance Crowe [00:09:24] So you're in Oklahoma City

Samuel Maondu [00:09:26] From not only Oklahoma City, but in Oklahoma, Lawton, Oklahoma,

Vance Crowe [00:09:31] You're in the state of Oklahoma, which like there are people in the United States, they've never been there. I mean to them Oklahoma is as far away as Kenya is because it seems so barren and desolate. So when, when we, when we met, I remember there was a very distinct experience we had and I have never known how to feel about this, but I remember that I had a CD player and I pulled it out and I had CDs, but it required batteries and I wanted you to see it. And 'cause you had seen me listening to music and, and I shared it with you and I remembered thinking, is this a bad thing? Because I'm giving him access to a technology that requires batteries and at the time batteries cost like $5 for a a pair and that'd be the equivalent of more than a day's worth of work. And so I didn't know if I was exposing you to something to then take it away because even if I gave it to you, the only way you could keep doing it was to have batteries. What do, when looking back on that time, how do you think about that moment? The first time we're putting on headphones and listening to CDs and things like that.

Samuel Maondu [00:10:37] I think it was a wonderful experience. And the other thing I think just like I told you, like when you're not exposed to the, to the life outside your cocoon, sometimes you may not, it may not, the reality may not be, may be may be not that immense. So when you gave me that thing, because I, I was not working by then, it like didn't come to my mind if it's going to cost me some sense, it didn't even hit me. So I just took it the way somebody would take it.

Vance Crowe [00:11:12] I've always wondered, I've, I've always, I I mean I've actually carried this around as a weight because I never knew. And now that you've come to the United States, I think, oh this is magical. But at the time I, if I recall correctly, you were studying computers and you were going to a place where the comp, they didn't even have computers and you were studying computer programming.

Samuel Maondu [00:11:32] Yeah, we had, we had like three computers by then and we, we had to share computers. I think that is the, the way we have back in Kenya whereby the, the, the, the, the, the, the financial, we have those financial challenges and then we just have to share the little that we have so that we just get moving.

Vance Crowe [00:11:54] How do you explain to people the conditions that you grew up in? If you were gonna explain it to people that have never been to Africa, or if they have, they've only been a tourist but they haven't actually been in the villages, what is it like to grow up in a place with no electricity or running water? What, what's the experience like?

Samuel Maondu [00:12:11] And I know most people cannot relate to this, but I grew up in the village whereby the way you mentioned, you know, there was no electricity. We had to walk like some miles to go and get some to go and get water and we used donkeys to carry water back to our homesteads. Early, early in my life, the way you mentioned we, like when we were young, we used to play in the mud outside. We don't, most of the time I think because of our weather, we don't stay inside most of the time. So during the day, most of the time we are outside and we are playing. There be it's rainy, be it is very sunny. The children are playing outside shoeless and basically most people go in the village like we go with three meals a day, like just take breakfast, lunch and then dinner and that's it. There are also people who are very unfortunate and some of them grow maybe a day without meals. But our family, I think our family, my dad was very hardworking and used to provide for us. So I was fortunate enough to grow, to grow up in a family whereby we were provided with breakfast, lunch at dinner, and we were go, we, we were, our dad was able to take her to school because I went to primary school, I went to high school and I went to college and each one of us, the six of us were able, we, we had that opportunity to go to, to up to college to get that college education, which is wonderful

Vance Crowe [00:13:52] To an American. What you're saying sounds obvious, right? Like all children do that. But what most people don't realize is that when I was meeting you and you would be dressed in your white shirt and you'd had just come from your computer programming school that many of the other kids your age had spent the last seven or eight years herding goats. So in the morning they took breakfast before everybody else and then they, you know, gathered up the goats and took them somewhere where there were green things and then they were allowed to to roam around and eat and then the boys would gather them up and bring them back and that, and that was all instead of going to school 'cause they were helping their families.

Samuel Maondu [00:14:28] Yeah, it happens so often. So we do have families whereby we have guards, we have cuts and we have ship and basically because they can't employ somebody to, to, to watch over these guards. There are too many or some, some families have too many gods, too many, too many cutters. They usually rely on the family members that most likely is the kids. The kids in the morning, they take the girls, the cuts out to the, to the field for grazing. Then they come back late in the evening. So some children don't get that privilege of going to to, to to school. But right now I think the, the, the situation is changing. These are that prime free primary school education and some people, some people are taking this opportunity to, to take their kids to school.

Vance Crowe [00:15:21] It's one of those things that at the time I remember thinking like, this is an outrage, you know, all of these kids should be in school, but as you dig in deeper, you find that the, there's no point in American culture where a 12-year-old is deeply reliant on right, like where the whole family, if that 12-year-old doesn't guard the goats and doesn't take care of it, then the entire family suffers. And on and from an American perspective that seems like, oh, you're taking that kid's childhood. But on the other hand, I think there is something to the way that that knitted together the fabric of the community where every kid, even when you were a child, participated in the success of people surviving or thriving. And now when I see childhood in the United States, I don't necessarily think that our way is better. It's just different because by making a child be a child, you count them out of the fabric. You say it's not important what you do day to day until you're 18 or 20 or or older. But in Kenya you could be nine years old and you could be fundamental to whether or not your family eats.

Samuel Maondu [00:16:27] Sure. That's very true. That's very true. The other thing I remember like the first born in the family, like when the, the, when the parents are not there, the first born in the family used to prepare the family meal. And I remember sometimes because my elder brother is not there, I had to take that responsibility and prepare a family meal before the others come from where they are and they come back to the house, they need to find that there's something to hit. And by then,

Vance Crowe [00:16:55] Well, and people don't understand what you're really saying there, right? Because they're imagining you go to the refrigerator and you pull out some leftovers or you turn on the sink. Sink or you yeah, flip on the stove if you're preparing a meal for the family. Talk about what that actually entailed. How, what was the starting point? Like

Samuel Maondu [00:17:11] In fact like a, an actual family meal would be like, we never used because we didn't have electricity. First thing we don't have gas. We used to have firewoods and we have a, a kitchen whereby like kitchen is not in the same, in the same building as the, the main house. So kitchen is somewhere separate and you have a, a fireplace, not like the fireplace that we have over here. We have a somewhere where you're going to put the firewoods. Then we had, we, we have to put pho and every other thing now for the source of the food usually come, came from the community. We didn't have, because we don't have electricity, we don't have refrigerators, so we don't keep perishables in the house. Things like the vegetables. We have to source them every day from the market. And also from our, our our our the the our fields, like we used to cultivate vegetables, the cows and everything and the tomatoes, we usually get them fresh from the field. So you would go gather them, bring them to the house and prepare a family meal.

Vance Crowe [00:18:24] And how long did that take you?

Samuel Maondu [00:18:26] That's in fact that would take, if you're preparing dinner for the entire family, that would take like the entire afternoon. Like during lunchtime at one, your mom had to tell you, you know what Samuel, today you're preparing dinner for us. So you have to get ready, your mom is going to give you cash, you just have to go to the shopping area, go buy some necessities, come back and prepare the, the family meal.

Vance Crowe [00:18:52] In my family, Nicodemus had had a house where there was a well just outside of our house and that was a huge advantage over having to walk to a river or having to go to somebody else's well or community well. But I remember in the morning volunteering to try and bring the, the well water up and we had a servant girl that was out there and she was, she was definitely distinct from the family, but she was a member of the larger family. And I remember the couple of times that I volunteered to drop the, the, the bucket all the way down to the well and then bring it up. And you do that once or twice and it's kind of novel. But if you think every single time I'm ever gonna wash a dish every time I'm gonna make sure everybody has a drink of water, I don't just turn on the faucet, I actually have to lift it out of the the ground. Yeah, just the act of having a gallon of water took real work in a way that an American, the, their experience of gathering water is turning a knob and, and like, I don't know what what do, how, how would it be for you to go back now that you know what it is to turn a knob and have water ready access?

Samuel Maondu [00:20:04] I think the thing is because I think it doesn't make any difference, but the thing is I know I'll experience some challenges because right now water is readily available here with me. It's clean water and we still have to get like in our family right now because it's only my parents who are there, they don't go to get water from the river, they just have to get somebody to go and get water for them. And I think it should be a nice experience to go back there and the experience again, like the things that I used to go through childhood, I admire to go back there and do that thing again. But I know I can't do that thing for long because I know it's tiring and I know I love to source for an outside person to go and be getting water for us going to the market and getting some food for us. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:21:01] It's, it's, it's one of those things that on its face it looks like that's bad. Just like I was talking about the kid that is a goat herder and the more that I look around what's going on in today's society, one of the things that I'm realizing is that we are so disconnected from our community that when coronavirus hit, I just had my groceries delivered to me. I had my water come to me, I had my electricity come to me. And so it was possible for me to live in a community but be completely isolated from it. Whereas in a place like Kenya that's not possible. You, you must rely on other people and the interface with those people can never be just through the internet or something like that. You have to, like you were saying, you you, you have to have a good enough relationship with the person that you bought tomatoes from yesterday to be able to go buy tomatoes from them tomorrow. And if you don't, things break down really quickly so people are forced to be a better part of the community.

Samuel Maondu [00:22:01] That's very true. That's very true.

Vance Crowe [00:22:04] And how did you find Oklahoma or the United States? Were you welcomed into a community? Did you find a place for you to, to be able to integrate?

Samuel Maondu [00:22:13] You know every, every person like every, because I work in a hospital, every time I tell my patients like I come from Kenya and I flew over last year in January, they usually ask me, how did you come to Oma? And I usually tell them that my agency sent me over here and I love it over here. One thing I need to confess is that I think 99% of the Americans that I've worked like that have socialized with, they're really nice people and I think that makes it good for me. Some of my patients tell me your accent sounds very nice and I think they're very accommodative and that I think that thing alone has enabled me to get to re socialize very fast in this community and I love it over here. It's good, it's a good place to be.

Vance Crowe [00:23:02] When you say you love it over here, what is it that you mean? Like what is it that sticks out to you that makes your heart, you know, beat up or, or makes you think about like being glad to be there?

Samuel Maondu [00:23:13] You know Vance, I know there's something which was circulating in the news the other day that you know, I don't know if you have an idea how many people want to come to the United States. So many of them and I, I remember the other day like there is something that was circulating that people, for the pregnant women, they just want to come over here, deliver their babies over here. And we know when you deliver a baby here in the America, that becomes an American. That's a privilege they want to have. That's what they are looking for. So, so many people want to come over here, but there, there are a lot of challenges. Like for me, even when I was in Kenya even would've taught me one day I'll come to America. That was not in my dream. I remember this thing started back in 2016 October. My schedule was like the same because I graduated from school in, in December, 2013. Then after graduating I started working in January 20, no it was December 23rd, then January, 2013 I started working from January, 2013 to October, 2016. It was like the same schedule, just wake up every day almost at the same time, use the same route, go to work, do the same thing all over again, then go to break. We used to take our breaks at 10, go to break at 10, either evening, go back to the house and it was the same schedule.

Samuel Maondu [00:24:48] Same schedule. And some people usually say they don't like schedule and that is me. I like they don't like routines and that's me also. So in October, 2016 I wanted to do something different. I've always wanted to go back to school, but financially I was unstable. So that kept me from going back to school. So in 2016 I went, I wanted to do critical care, I went to a nursing school, talk to them, they gave me an admission letter to do critical care. But the schedule for the classes was crazy. It meant like I have to resign from work and start my studies in critical care, which did not resonate very well with me because I was financing myself. And in Kenya is different because here people have student loans. In Kenya it's way different. Like we don't have student loans. The only people who get student loans are those like you have to be a very high performing student and that is straight from high school before you go to to to universities or colleges. And it's only in the universities, not in the colleges. That's the only time you can get a student loan. So for me, I didn't get that opportunity to get a student loan though I'd passed to go to the university. So in 2016 when I got that admission letter to go and do critical care and I was not able to finance myself, I had to look for an alternative. I've always been studying all along since I, I graduated.

Samuel Maondu [00:26:20] So what I decided to do is there's this agency and they are helping poo to study, basically to prepare for the NCLEX. NCLEX is the exam, the examination that nurses have to take after they are done with their studies and they need to do the NCLEX for them to be licensed to practice as a, as professional nurses. So I took that opportunity. I didn't take it basically to come to the us I took it because my schedule was boring. Like my routine, my routine was boring. That's the reason. And I needed something that is going to push me beyond my limits. Like if I knew, if I enroll with them, like if I register with them, they're going to make me do assignments every day, every week. And that is going to push me beyond my limits and that's what I wanted. So yeah, there I was doing, doing assignments every week, submitting the assignments under with that alone, in July, July, 2017, I went to India start for my exam. And you know the funny thing because I used to see my life like if I have failed somewhere in my education. So I took everything with seriousness at this PO at that point in time. So I went to India and I didn't want to fail in this exam, I just wanted to

Vance Crowe [00:27:43] You're saying you went to India?

Samuel Maondu [00:27:45] Yeah, we didn't do it like in Africa. We don't have a center whereby we can do NCLEX, we don't have a center.

Vance Crowe [00:27:52] You left Kenya and went to India to take a test to become a nurse,

Samuel Maondu [00:27:57] To beca like to be licensed to practice here in the us

Vance Crowe [00:28:03] Okay, keep going.

Samuel Maondu [00:28:04] I know that sounds crazy but I went to India in July, 2017, sat for the exam and I did only 76 questions. And the funny thing is that I did 76 questions for five good hours. I know some people do the okay in NCLEX you are, you are only supposed to do seven, five questions and they are going to grade you with that. Some people take the take 200 questions, some people take the maximum 265 questions, but they are only going to take the last 75 questions to grade you on that. So my question was if they need only 75 questions to, to grade me on that and I have the rule six hours to do the seven, five questions, why do a hundred questions? I just need 75 questions, grade me on the the first 75 questions and that's all I need. So I took my time, I had to read question, reread it again, read the answer, read it again and choose the answer. And at the 76th questions, I think the computer just started giving me survey questions and when they start giving you survey questions, you know, my mine is done. Like they're not going to give you any other question which is going to be to count in the final grade. So a lady walked to me and she told me, you can finish your exam because I was doing survey questions by then. So after after that I flew back to Kenya and in three days I got an email that I had passed and that's when reality hit me.

Samuel Maondu [00:29:45] I'm going to the us. Before that I didn't know I even got to the US I knew like I'm still going to be here in Kenya, like I'll be there in Kenya.

Vance Crowe [00:29:54] So this is gonna sound like it's changing subjects, but I don't mean for it to, you said something that really resonates with me. It's actually why I joined the Peace Corps. It's why you and I met was that you said I was bored with my routine and there's a psychologist named Carl Jung talks about how it is your curiosity, it is what you're interested in. That is the inner Damon, the voice that you have that tells you where you need to go in life. And if you're not interested in something, it it means that you're, your basically your soul is not drawn to to taking it. And so you, you choose a different path. Do you feel like that, was it with you, was it a voice that was saying like, this isn't enough, there's more for you. How, how did you translate boredom into moving forward or moving up?

Samuel Maondu [00:30:48] I think this thing started like in our family, our family is different the way I'm saying like, I was born in a village. Our family, the family itself, it's way different than the family which neighbor us. Like my elder brother is an engineer, is a chemical engineer. My younger brother is a manufacturing engineer and the the the the brother, we have four brothers. The last, the last born of the brothers is doing, he is taking another course right now, but he went to university but he was not able to create. But he is taking a different course right now. Our sister, we have two sisters. Our the youngest sister is a, is a nurse, just finished bachelor's of science in nursing the, the last year. And the the, the other sister is a, is a teacher. So our family's a little bit different. And when I remember when I was growing up, our dad, this a face she used to use, it used to use like going an extra mile. Like everything that you do, you have to go an extra mile for you to be different from other people. So that is the thing that I grew up with. I remember I have a scar here because we are, I was trying to cut grass one day and then I, my dad was there with me and with

Vance Crowe [00:32:13] A machete.

Samuel Maondu [00:32:14] No, we used something we used and because dad was there and we used, that was a phrase that we grew up with, like going an extra mile after the work, we had to do something else extra just to make sure that we achieved that thing going an extra mile. And because I wanted to go an extra mile and I was tired, I cut myself here. So this car reminds me that going an extra mile in everything that I need to do. So in high school I was an average student. My brothers, they were way much smarter. I was an average student, but I liked chemistry, physics and biology. So I was good in those subjects. When I cleared high school, just as I mentioned to you, I didn't got, I didn't get a, a passing grade whereby I could get a student loan to go to to university, but I qualified to go to university, but I could only go to university as a self sponsored student. But that was way much expensive. Our family could not afford that. So I chose to go to a college, a college whereby just do here in America they call it an associate degree. So in Kenya we call it a diploma. So I went to do a diploma in nursing that was a little bit cheaper than going to the university. So when I went to to when I joined nursing school, I, us, I saw it like if my life had failed somewhere in my life and I had to meet this deficit at that point in time.

Samuel Maondu [00:33:48] So I was very hardworking when I was in, I was doing my nursing, I was in my nursing school after the three and a half year course I remember the la the, in the, in my final year I was awarded as one of the best senior academic student in the department of nursing. Basically because of the things that I was doing, I was very active in both in clinical area, I did the class. So I was the best senior academic student after that. I think tho those things, because of the things that happened when I was in high school, I wa I didn't me get that passing grade to get to be financed, to go to to, to university like my brothers. That the thing which was like the driving force for me in everything that I was doing. And that thing enabled me even after school, I had to stay in books. And I think that's the only thing that the, that's the thing also which enabled me to start this program and be successful. You know, things, things that I'm doing. And when I came over here, I joined, like I had to take online classes for my bachelor's of science in nursing. So the dream that I had like for 2015, I did it in 2020.

Vance Crowe [00:35:05] I, I hear your story and like you're pushing on in this like the scar of your hand. And it's one of those things that everyone wants to have this passion and, and I, I can distinctly remember when I met you in Kenya, you have exactly what you have on right now, which is this smile and it's this smile of like, it doesn't really matter what's going on around me, I'm excited to just be here. I'm interested, I'm, I'm curious and I, I don't know, there's something about that that transcends boundaries and languages and all of those things. Like if you're staring across from somebody and they're smiling and they're yeah, anxious and interested in what you have to say, I don't know, it's like the best part of humanity and it didn't matter that we came from worlds apart. I mean our genetics spread apart in, in, in radically different ways. And then when we came together it was smiles that that

Samuel Maondu [00:35:57] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:35:57] Made us connected.

Samuel Maondu [00:35:59] And I think that's okay. Sorry. No, go ahead. Okay. I think that's me. I think irrespective of the situation, I think I wear this smile. I remember when I came over in January, 2019, I remember there's a time my I hire had this, this, this person whereby like he was my transition specialist at one time. I had an appointment with him. It was I think scheduled for 10 30 in the morning. But I went there 10 that one one minute late and I, that came to my mind the way the Americans like keeping time. When I arrived there at 10, that one minute late he was, he was not in the office. So it's like when it hit 10 that, and I was not there, I think he stepped outside. So I stood there at the door waiting for him because I didn't want to leave without seeing him. And I knew I was one minute late. So when I was waiting, I waited for him for around four minutes and then he came and when I saw him, that was the smile in my face and he was like, Samuel, you are smiling and you are late. I was like, I'm sorry I was late. Like one minute I was one minute late. Yeah, you are late and you're smiling. I told him, yeah, you may cons misconstrue my smile with what is happening right now. But that's my nature irrespective of the situation. That is whatever is happening, I actually wear this smile and that's me.

Vance Crowe [00:37:31] Yeah, the the time thing that was so hard for me in Kenya because you know, you'd arrange a time and to an American it is time is money, time is energy, time is relationships, it's, it was. And then I'm all of a sudden in a place where if I try and assert my desire for you to be on time or for everyone else to be on time, then I end up resenting everyone around me because they are much more concerned with, I'm talking with somebody right now and I don't wanna break off talking with this person to go talk to another person. And they're not thinking of it in terms of I'm wasting that other person's time. They're just saying we move at this pace that's just a different one than in the United States. Did you find that hard to adjust to in the United States? The way that, that we feel time is valued differently.

Samuel Maondu [00:38:22] In fact, what I did, I just had to like change my schedule and like I had to fit in this the, the in the time system, the American, the, the, the time system in America, like the observe time. So even at the workplace, like I just have to prepare in advance if I'm sleeping, like because I do night shifts, if I I'm going to sleep, I have to set an alarm for me to get up in time, get myself ready and go to work. Like I think this coming to America has also taught me about observing time because I know nobody wants you to be late and being late. That may mean you are rude and I don't want people to perceive me as being rude to them. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:39:11] So there are some experiences that I had in Kenya that I've, I've only ever really thought about them from myself and I never circled back and actually spoke with a Kenyan about 'em. And these are kind of sensitive topics because they're gonna deal with the, the raw nature of being a human in a place like Kenya. And so, you know, we can answer this in whatever way that you want, but one of the experiences that I had while living in our small village was that they had the sensation that people were robbing some of the stores. And I remember that there were a group of boys that were ended up being hired to like stay up at night and wander the streets to make sure that there, there was no more danger, nobody was gonna rob them. And eventually that group came to a conclusion that it was two men from another town or this is my very rudimentary understanding because people wanted to protect me from it. They were trying to, particularly my home stay father was like, no, I'm gonna pull you out of this, you don't need to be here for this. But my understanding was that they decided that it was two people that lived in a village over that they had a story in their head that they had been released from jail and, and so they went and got those people out of their house in the middle of the night and brought them back to the, the villages and put tires over them and poured petroleum or kerosene and lit them on fire. And it was so jarring to me that that would happen until I realized there are no police.

Vance Crowe [00:40:43] If these people don't find a way to get justice, if they don't make it so everybody knows that theft will be met with force, then you're gonna have this. But I always have this like weird sensation of justice and what's fair and what's right is this, do you remember this event and does this, does this fall into your recollection about that time when we were together?

Samuel Maondu [00:41:07] Exactly. Yeah. It falls in my collections. So what happened? I remember, I think that event only happened at that time when you were there and it has never happened again. And the thing is there are, there are, there are people. There are, okay, just like every else, everywhere else there are good people and there are bad people. So, and the, the way you know, the way ea in America, like the 9 1 1, you're going to dial 9 1 1 and somebody's going to show the police is going to show up. It's different in Kenya, like our 9 9 1 1 system doesn't work. Like you're just going to dial 9 1 1 and probably you're going to stay there for the next like four hours. Nobody's going to receive your call. I know that sounds crazy, but they ah, that's how our system is. So that being said, I think people took it in their hands, took the law into their hands. They had to protect themselves and it was like, because it's a community, they know who is a rob and who is not a robber. Like they were bad people. They knew who is bad and they knew who is not bad. At that time, I don't know what there was like, like that wave people from this community, from that community, there are people who are bad and they would just come together, go robbing people, go breaking stores. And it was coming to an extent that people were not, could not tolerate that anymore. It happened. So it happened where we used to stay that that place is is Angia.

Samuel Maondu [00:42:38] It happened in Angia. At the same time my home place, like in the village, the same thing was happening. So it was like in the entire county, the same thing was happening.

Vance Crowe [00:42:51] I never knew that. I didn't know it was larger than just our little village where we were at.

Samuel Maondu [00:42:56] Yeah, it was larger. It was larger because I remember that time when I left, when I was done with computer, when I went back to the village, I realized one of our, like there's a, there's a guy we used to to give some manual work in our family and I think we didn't know that he was one of the bad guys. Like the community went over him and they, they banned him.

Vance Crowe [00:43:23] And now being an adult and seeing that from a different perspective, how do you understand this? Do you, do you see it in the terms of right and wrong or need and not need? I I don't, I mean I I have no judgment here. I realize that the people there were dealing with a reality and they had to deal with it. But I just wonder how other people think about it because it completely transformed my life that moment when I could see that when people are afraid they will not stand for being afraid and and they can handle it for a little while, but they will eventually put themselves in a position to get rid of that fear. And I, I, I don't know, I've, I've always had this thing where that's an incomplete thought in my

Samuel Maondu [00:44:08] Mind. Yeah, so one thing I think our system had failed at some point because I think the, the police, they have that role. They, they are mandated to protect the community. And I think one thing is that they failed in that role. And I would say it was a good thing for the community to do and like take those people, ban them, put tires on them and they put car in and burn them. That was not a good thing because one thing we have law and because we have law, we should take these people. Maybe if we get hold of them, we take them to the police and the police owe them custody and they can be taken to the court of law and be face charges of whatever things they have been doing. So I think that is one of the things that should have happened. So yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:44:56] Well, let's talk, do you mind if we keep talking about the police? It's an interesting thing. I mean I know it's not you, it's more of like living in a society where I, I mean I I was kind of told like it's not that the police are bad, you just don't really wanna be around them. So if you see them, you just kind of wanna give them space. And I, I came to a different understanding. Like that's one of the things in the United States, at least as me and my position as the, as you know, the the Irish American guy. I never was afraid of the police when I was a kid. But when I was in Kenya after I left the home stay, there were times when police officers would say, Hey, give me Kiki Dogo, gimme just a little something for some chai. Some they were always like, it's because I have this role I can take a little bit from you. And it was very difficult for me to understand this

Samuel Maondu [00:45:48] World. Yeah, I think that that, that's one of the things I think which has made policy to policing in our, in our country to be a little bit of difficult, difficult because like if the police does something for you, they need something in return, which I think should not be working that way. Like it's different here in the us like you don't give money to the police. That's, that's not good. That's illegal. But that thing has been happening in our country. Like if you need something, you need the police to come and do something for them, for you. Sometimes behind the doors, behind the curtains, you just have to give the police something. But if they, you get caught in the hacked, like most, some people are facing the, the, the, the other side of the law and they're going to jail because of the same thing. So I think it's something which should not be happening. The other thing I think we not have as many police as here in the US and what do I say about it? Like pol the, the police that we have in our com in our in in Kenya, they're not as enough as many as the ones we have here in the us. So I think with that is one of the shortcomings that the police phase while they're trying to enforce the law.

Vance Crowe [00:47:10] Yeah, it was, it was an interesting time in my life because I, I think that in American culture, things just kind of work, right? You wake up and you're, you're a child and the police work and the teachers work and the systems all work. And so when you see systems that aren't already there or they don't necessarily work, you start saying, I have an appreciation that I can turn this knob and water comes out or I can get robbed and call a phone and this works out. And, but I don't, I I used to have this understanding that the US had things figured out and the Kenyans don't, but I look at the fabric of the family. Like you're talking about your brothers and I know Nicodemus, the, the man that was my home stay fathers is giant of a man. Someday I'll have him on the podcast if I can get him is he had a way of building a family, right? Of keeping everybody together, of getting them to work together in a way that I don't see American families today. So I I can't put it as like one side good, one side bad. It's just different.

Samuel Maondu [00:48:12] Yeah, it's, I think the, the, the Nico where used to stay, that's my KO's place. And I think there's a way like the, the, the way we raise our kids in Kenya, it's way different than the way kids are raised here in the us. Like you don't peg your kids. Like you don't take a stick peg, peg your kids here in Thek us

Vance Crowe [00:48:39] Spank, they call that here. Spank they

Samuel Maondu [00:48:40] Call it. Yeah, they, okay, so you don't do that here in the, in the us like in the hop, if you do it, do it in secret and maybe,

Vance Crowe [00:48:48] Yeah.

Samuel Maondu [00:48:50] And then maybe if the kids happen to see it, you're going to be on the other side of the law and you're going to face the law. So in Kenya's different, like if, if I see my neighbor's kid who is misbehaving, I can discipline that kid and take that kid to the parent and tell the parent, this kid was doing 1, 2, 3 things and I've done 1, 2, 3 things to this kid and the parent is going to take over and maybe it's going to be bad. So we never used like want to mess around.

Vance Crowe [00:49:23] It's going to be bad. It's gonna, did you ever have anybody hand you over?

Samuel Maondu [00:49:27] Gosh, a lot. So many times. So many times. And this happened to like when I was in my primary school when I was school, I was in primary school. This happened so many times because we are kids, we used to misbehave. We are coming from school in a group of other kids and we come like, we are like misbehaving, beating each other, this kid here. And they'll go hide and sit, tell our parents what has happened and it was not going to be a good thing for us by the end of the day.

Vance Crowe [00:49:58] And what do you think of the, the differences, I mean now you are raising your child not in Kenya, but in Oklahoma, and do you think that you will be able to adapt your parenting style to fit the American culture or are there parts of Kenyan culture that you think it's pretty important that I make sure this part of raising a child is included?

Samuel Maondu [00:50:19] Yeah, I think the other thing is like when you move from one place to the other, usually, so there are some cultures that you don't live behind, like you just come with them over. And I think instead of thanking the child, there are some things that you can do. Like you can talk to your child, somebody can talk to the child, and if they're able to understand what is happening, yeah, they are going to understand they could and they're wrong. And if that's the most important thing instead of, I think the thing of using sticks and inflicting pain to chi to children, it just causes kind of a psychological trauma. And this trauma, I think it, it's not a very good thing because I remember, I remember when I was growing up because of that, I think our parents gave us that psychological trauma because of the discipline, the way they, they used the extreme discipline to make us adhere to what they are going to say to us. And I think that one also made us, made, gave us, gave us like fear, let me use the word fear. Like every time you, you, you like, like for me, for me, if I, I want to speak to to like large number of people, I will not want to face them because I think there's, that, the fear in me also, like it makes me to become nervous. And I think that that's the, the confidence in me is not there. And I think this thing started way back when I was young and so the psychological trauma and everything, I think it adds up and gives the child kind of a, a kind of a kind of a lack of confidence to face things and they're not sure what is good and what is wrong.

Samuel Maondu [00:52:07] So I think it's not a good thing. It's good to talk to your child, let them know this is good and this is bad, and if you do this thing which is bad, something bad is going to happen to, maybe the law is not going to be good on you. It's going to be harsh on you. Let them understand that so that when they grow up they know what is good and what is bad and they can choose their path.

Vance Crowe [00:52:28] I had never thought about how that trauma like would last or how it would seep into other parts of your life that you could be a great orator, but you're afraid that the judgment of the crowd or make a mistake and there will be pain inflicted on you. And even if that shouldn't be a one-to-one connection, a child that makes, that doesn't even know when they're an adult, why they think that they just do.

Samuel Maondu [00:52:51] Yeah, sure.

Vance Crowe [00:52:53] So another experience that's really different in Kenya that I didn't appreciate at the time, but now I'm, I'm hyper interested in is the role of religion in, in what people do and in the churches that they go to. And in Kenya it appeared to me that it wasn't do you go to church? It was which church do you go to? And, and the the concept of God was much more embedded into the culture, but it wasn't held up as like, okay, everybody getting yours. I, I don't know, it was just different. What, when you look at religion, how do you describe the, the Kenyan belief in God versus say what you're experiencing now?

Samuel Maondu [00:53:35] I think, I think for the Kenyans and the Christianity, I think, let me say religion, because we have the diversity there. We have Christians, we have Muslims, and for the Christians we have different kind of Christians. They come, they are, they're they're Protestants and they, there are others. So I think religion is way much like, it's completely embedded in our culture and some people, because I think there, there some people lose hope in life and, and and, and some even think that when you become like a Christian, you become a Christian, you read the word of God, you trust in God that things are going to be different for you. So I think what that aspect also makes some people become Christians and be so much committed to what they're doing in Christianity. I would say much about, about religions for now because I know not very much religious person. Very, I know my mom, my mom is a pastor right now and yeah, pastor,

Vance Crowe [00:54:49] Oh, I didn't realize that. I didn't meet any women pastors in Kenya. That's unique.

Samuel Maondu [00:54:53] Yeah. My mom is a pastor.

Vance Crowe [00:54:56] Wow. You know, my my recollection of of the concept of God was just different. Like in the United States we contain that into either when you're with your family or when you're with the people with your church. But when, when I was in Kenya because of the way that, you know, you had a, you had a group of people that kind of integrated you into the community and the Peace Corps is the same way. You, you meet and you're having classes and you're learning about culture, but you would get to have these experiences where you would go to where there's a women's group and the women's group to make a little bit of money would plant little plants in, in sacks. So you could create a hedgerow or you could create some vegetables or whatever. They would sit there and they would sing and they would, and they would use the singing as a way to make sure their timing worked out well. So they could all work in community, but the concepts of what they were singing about was God. And they were talking about things that were all around them. And, and it, it became like the same way that songbirds are all around you and you don't necessarily hear them unless you're listening for them. That's how permeated God and the concept of religion is to Kenyan culture. You can hear it in the music even when it's not religious music. You can hear it in the way that people talk about things. And it was, it was something that you don't see here. Now, if you tried to put that into the tapestry of American culture, people would be deeply resistant to it and push it away.

Samuel Maondu [00:56:18] Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the way things are in Kenya. And I think it just, it's, it's, it's a culture. It's a culture. And things have been like that since, like when I was growing up, I remember our mom took us to church and the, like, the entire of our childhood, we were going to, to church. Going to church. We've learned how to sing. We learned how to socialize with other people. We learned how, like every day we had to read the word of the word of God. Like before we got to bed, our mom had to read the word of God for us. And she had to teach, give us some teachings with the reference to the word of the God. Word of God. And I think that is the thing that we've brought up with and everyone has been brought up with that. And I think that's why the hustle embrace it as a community. So it's something which is there. It's something which everyone embraces and it's something which is going there for going to be there for some time.

Vance Crowe [00:57:18] How is the development of Kenya going? Right. You know, when I was there, one of the ways that we would watch a movie, you know, they didn't have running electricity, so we'd walk down and take a car battery and we'd bring it to the generator. And if you paid a guy a certain amount of money, he'd hook your car battery up to a generator, fill it up, and then you could take that back to your house and plug your TV and a couple of lights into it. Is it still that way out in your village?

Samuel Maondu [00:57:43] It's a little bit different right now because even in our, in our village we have electricity, electricity supply. And I think with the, with the electricity supply, things are way much different because now you can watch tv. You not, you don't have to use the battery car batteries anymore. And you can charge your phones and everything. Because I remember by then, like if you, if your mobile phones runs out of power, you just have to walk somewhere, give it to somebody to charge it for you, then come pick it later in the day. That was the trend. It's unlike now, like power is there in the house. If you see your battery's going down, you just need to hook it to power and there it works.

Vance Crowe [00:58:30] Are you able to say what the Kenyans want? Like is there something that is like a national thing that you think the Kenyan people are striving towards or something, you know, like we have the American dream here and that that's, is, is there a Kenyan dream or is that a, is that not the right way to think about it?

Samuel Maondu [00:58:49] I think the, the only, like when I was in Kenya, I've never had something like this phrase living my dream. So when I came over here in the us that's when I realized, yeah, there's this thing living the dream and everybody's saying, yeah, I'm living the American dream. And that's not something which is in Kenya. Like everyone is just trying, striving to make their life to be a little bit way better. And people have different dreams. They, they, they want to do this, they want to do that, and they're worried. So we don't have a common, like a common thing that we need to achieve, but everyone in their, in their, in their own space, they want to achieve their own goals, which I think it's way much different from one person to the other.

Vance Crowe [00:59:37] So if you're living the, your Kenyan American dream or you're, you're living something out right now, but you're also in the United States at a very unusual time because there's so much tension and there are people that say the dream is, is blocked off from me. I can't, I can't get to it or whatever it, how are you seeing what's going on with the political turmoil in the United States right now?

Samuel Maondu [01:00:01] I think the, the other thing is I'm not affiliate, I'm not affiliated too much to the political, to the political world. I don't associate with it too much. And I won't tell you much about the politics, but I think the way you said living the American dream and there's a lot of things that are happening around, I think the thing is just to stay focused because I think in the middle of challenges, challenges make us like realize our weaknesses and with that we can fight our way back and to success. So the thing is Coronavirus is there. I know the way you see, there are also political things that are happening around that. There are also a lot of challenges coming from politics. The thing is just to stay focused. These are like, I came here to, to do something like make my life way much better than it was in Kenya. So that is the goal. Don't focus on the negative, focus on the positive things.

Vance Crowe [01:01:02] Ah, gosh. I love, love talking to you. This is so good. When, when you think about your dream, what is that? Right now, you know, you're, you, you've, you've, you've gone beyond what you even dreamed possible before. Yeah. So now that you're achieving it, what is your dream?

Samuel Maondu [01:01:19] I, I think my goal, like now I have a, I have a, a 2-year-old, I think I have a 2-year-old. We standing three years in November. I have a wife, what's

Vance Crowe [01:01:31] His name?

Samuel Maondu [01:01:32] His name is Leon, I think. I'll show you, I'll show him to you after, after, after the podcast. So, so I have a boy, I, I have a wife and those are, those are some of the things which are making me work hard for, for them. Like, I have a reason now to work hard and to get more money because of where we come from. We need to build our, we need to build ourselves, we need to expand our territory. And that's the goal that we're, that was, that's what I'm targeting at

Vance Crowe [01:02:05] Expand our territory. I love that. Like, you know, you think about the, what we used to go jogging every once in a while you'd be wearing your dress shoes coming home from school and we'd go jogging. And I always think about like, the area that you're physically able to jog around is kind of the territory that you're able to patrol and know what's going on. And I think about, you know, getting stronger, getting better. Cardiovascular system makes your territory expand 'cause you can run further. But the same is true of, of if my community is built better, then my territory expands and my community's territory expands. I, I think that's a really positive message. And I've not actually heard it put in that way. It's very insightful.

Samuel Maondu [01:02:45] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:02:47] So as is is your wife, is she a Kenyan?

Samuel Maondu [01:02:50] Yeah, she's a Kenyan.

Vance Crowe [01:02:52] And did she come,

Samuel Maondu [01:02:54] We come from the same place. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [01:02:59] Well I, you know, I, I really had no idea where this conversation would go. And I think you and I have a lot of just personal catching up to do, but I was really excited to sit down and talk with somebody that has come so far in life, man. Like, I, I can't even tell you that. Like, I, well, I, I, I, I literally cried when I found out you were in the United States. I, I, to me that was a moment of seeing a person transcend everything that stood in front of them. And like, you're the fucking man. You, you are the guy that like pushed the envelope and, and like, look how happy you are. I just, nothing makes me happier in the world than seeing you succeed.

Samuel Maondu [01:03:42] Well thank you very much Vance.

Vance Crowe [01:03:44] Well we, we should cut off and, and have a private conversation, but thanks for coming on man.

Samuel Maondu [01:03:49] Thank you very much.