How to Keep Elderly Parents at Home Instead of Nursing Homes: Costs, Care Options, Design

Ryan Whittington [00:00:00] So, you know, I, I, I feel like, just like that, we'll be gone, but there'll were people here before and there'll be people after. And if, if we can exist in a state of happiness, not that, that's always pure pleasure, because as my son who just came home from PSR last night told me that the struggle is really where we find the happiness. It, it lets us know what we're happy about. Hi, this is Jack Leba baseball player in second grader from St. Louis, Missouri, and you are listening to the Vance Grow Podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:33] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today we are on part three of our five part Memento Moori series where we explore the idea of if you contemplate that you will die one day, how does that change how you will live? Today we sit down with Ryan Whittington, who runs an in-home care company designed to help older people stay in their homes rather than go into a nursing home. This is a wide ranging conversation that might prompt you to think about having those difficult conversations with your parents or what it would feel like to be an older person whose independence might be etching away. We'll get to that interview in just a moment, but many of you know that we conduct a Legacy Interviews in this studio right here where I record private conversations describing a person's childhood, their career, marriage, the parenting that they did, and the legacy that they hope to leave behind. And then we package it up in a video that you can share with your family or potentially hold it for some time in the future so that your ideas and legacy can be passed on. If you're interested in having me interview you or one of your loved ones, go to Legacy Interviews dot com to find out more. Alright, without further ado, let's head to the interview with Ryan Whittington. Ryan Whittington. Wi welcome.

Ryan Whittington [00:01:49] Thank you to the podcast. Thanks. Glad to be here.

Vance Crowe [00:01:52] So if you were retiring, you're, you and your wife are all done. You're gonna go off into the sunset, you're building a home. In what way would you construct this home to make it so you could stay there as long as possible?

Ryan Whittington [00:02:07] Well, I would build it as a ranch for sure, and I would probably focus more on the single level than any other level. For instance, I, I don't know that I'd go to the expense of building a basement because going down is almost just as hard as going up. And the clients that I work with and serve, they, they do best on a single floor ranch style house.

Vance Crowe [00:02:35] What else? Things like doors and things like that, would you wide them out so you could get

Ryan Whittington [00:02:39] Journeys through there? Yeah, yeah. I would probably consult with a, a specialist. I, I'm not a a home specialist, but I would work with somebody that would be able to make those kind of rec recommendations. But, you know, in the, in the world of home care, we focus on having the ability to get a walker through a wheelchair, through equipment, through, so certainly wider doorways, no steps. If I could avoid steps, that would be good. And a lot of light, actually light, when a room has a lot of light, natural light, it's easier for someone that's older to be able to see what's going on. They lose a little bit of that light depth perception. And so, no kidding. So if you can angle or configure the house best to have as much light as you can.

Vance Crowe [00:03:24] So you are in, in-home care, which is different from people going into a nursing home. How do you describe in-home care to people

Ryan Whittington [00:03:32] In-home care is receiving all the care that you would be able to get at a facility, but in the comfort of your home. And so when people are asked where they'd like to grow older or receive care, almost a hundred percent of the time it's at home. So we've come a long ways with what you can receive at home as opposed to, you know, even 20 years ago. And basically if you wanna stay at home, you can't, it's just a matter of being connected to the right resources. And often that includes financially being able to prepare for, for staying at home.

Vance Crowe [00:04:10] What is the comparison? I mean, I would think if you're in, we just last week had a guy on that was talking about teaching college kids what it's like to age. And he mentioned that most of the time nursing homes are actually more expensive because you're amortizing the price of all of those capabilities among the patients. It,

Ryan Whittington [00:04:28] It definitely can be, there's a tipping point, and I usually use about 12 hours a day for care. If you need more than 12 hours of care at home per day, you start getting into it being more expensive than a nursing home. So most people need care way before that. They just need a little bit of help each day or a couple days a week. And if that's your situation and you decide to move to a facility, a nursing home, you'll definitely overpay as opposed to having care come into the home for just a couple of hours. But, you know, the most of the clients that we serve or that we work with that are receiving care 12 hours a day or more, it's, it's more of a lifestyle decision than it is anything else. So they're staying at home and they're financially prepared to do that because of things like, they don't, they don't want to deal with the noise of other residences, other people in the building. They don't want to deal with having to go down to a cafeteria to eat. So they much prefer the care at home for those reasons.

Vance Crowe [00:05:29] So when somebody gets engaged into in-home care, like what's the first step? When do people start realizing I need it or my parents need it, and then how does that go?

Ryan Whittington [00:05:40] It's usually an adult child, probably the adult daughter that notices that mom or dad is slipping in some way, whether that's their memory or they actually have slipped and fallen and they find out on their weekly phone call with mom or dad that they went to the doctor and they were surprised and concerned. And so they fly into town and start talking with mom and dad and through that conversation they realize, wow, my parents just aren't nearly as capable as they once were. We do get calls from the actual user, the actual client of ours, the 80, 85-year-old client. But it's rare. They often are, they don't see themselves as needing the help. So it usually happens when, when that adult family member calls, and again, it's to an agency like ours, it's usually because they're looking for a professional approach and sometimes we're just a, a pass through to connect them to a elder attorney or to a, a care manager or to some other professional that can help them plan.

Vance Crowe [00:06:43] So talk about your firm. What do you guys do? How are you located?

Ryan Whittington [00:06:46] So we are just lo we're in the St. Louis area. So we serve the St. Louis metro area, not Illinois. They have a different set of regulations and guidance in Illinois. So we're in, in St. Louis County. And we employ caregivers that have the skills to go into homes and provide direct care, hands-on care. So yeah, so the way that happens is the family calls us, we set up a time to go out and sit down across from the kitchen table with, with the client and their family members and just talk through their situation and how we can best meet their needs. And for most of our clients, that's anywhere from four to six hours a day up to 24 hour care. And those services can be as basic as well. During COVID, we heard a lot of people talk about just being lonely from being isolated. So they needed, their parents needed companionship, they just needed someone to talk to because they don't get out anymore. And that, that's huge, that you can't replace that with technology or a bot or anything that, that just human interaction. So it can be everything from just basic companionship all the way to end of life care. We hear a lot of clients call us and tell us that they told their mom that they would always keep her at home at end of life, and now it's time and, and they wanna make that a possibility. So,

Vance Crowe [00:08:05] You know, I, I'm the daughter of two girls and just last night my daughter was woke up in the middle of the night crying. Right. And like, it's really rare

Ryan Whittington [00:08:14] And

Vance Crowe [00:08:14] You go in there and you're like tired and you're like, you don't really have anything to be crying about. You're just, you know, upset. But I, the thought that it gave me was one day, Vance, you'll return to the point when you can't just get out bed or you can't just, and it was really like a stupefying moment for me. Right, sure. Where you realize like just how powerless you are when you lose your ability to be able to Yeah.

Ryan Whittington [00:08:38] Get

Vance Crowe [00:08:38] Out of bed, things like that. Sure.

Ryan Whittington [00:08:40] It, it is. And I'm, and I'm only 44 and I have more of those days now than I used to, you know, just feeling like, gosh, I'm just not who I was. And so when you get up into the seventies, eighties, I, I would tell you that the number one thing you should do is be nice to your daughter or your daughter-in-law

Vance Crowe [00:08:55] Because

Ryan Whittington [00:08:55] They're gonna be making the decisions for you.

Vance Crowe [00:08:57] Is it the daughters?

Ryan Whittington [00:08:58] Yes. Yeah. It's, it's, and if there isn't the daughter, then it's adult, you know, the oldest son or, but usually it's the daughter.

Vance Crowe [00:09:06] Why do you think that is?

Ryan Whittington [00:09:08] I think that they're the, I think the daughters are most interested in seeing success for their parents. And frankly, they're the ones that everyone in the family look to. I think that just by default, I don't know if it's because families feel like the daughter can quit whatever she's doing and help mom or dad, but usually that's, that's what we see is that the daughters or daughter-in-laws are calling us. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:09:31] I feel like in my family, I'm the middle of seven that the daughters are better able to talk with my parents about things they don't want to talk about than, than I am. I think

Ryan Whittington [00:09:40] That's, that's probably true. My wife is one of four and she's the oldest daughter and she has definitely been the caregiver for her father. And I think she just has that ability to organize things. She can organize well, she organizes everything, but she certainly organizes his care and kinda gets the other siblings to pitch in where, where she can, and I think that that's why she's, that's why she's in charge of it. But yeah, they call us and, and we go in and we come up with a plan and sometimes that plan is, Hey, everything looks okay for now, but you should plan in a year and two years and three years. Here's, here's how you can plan to start with a relationship with a caregiver and it can grow over time. And that's again, another benefit of being in charge of what's happening in your own home.

Vance Crowe [00:10:26] The challenge about what you're doing it seems like is that it's certainly, it's one person's decision. 'cause eventually somebody writes the check, but there's a lot of people involved in does dad really need help? Right. Or, you know, do we really need, how does that go? How do you navigate that? Yeah,

Ryan Whittington [00:10:41] We, we really have, we're serving two clients, really the client at home that we're helping hands on the caregivers there, but the family is usually in charge of other things and ultimately is helping decide whether or not we continue to do business. So we do that through identifying who that family member is at, you know, who's our family contact, and communicating with that person and communicating with the client. And we keep 'em all in a, in a, we have a portal within our scheduling system that everyone in the family can see the care notes, they can participate in how that care is being delivered. And we just do our best to make sure that that's all communicated ongoing. I

Vance Crowe [00:11:20] Mean, as you're saying this, I'm like, oh, of course, you know, my daughter's daycare has like a place where I can log in and

Ryan Whittington [00:11:25] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:11:26] See the photos and, but I, it hadn't dawned on me that your industry would clearly, you know, use technology.

Ryan Whittington [00:11:31] You know, what's interesting is that that bond between the caregiver and the, the client at home, it's as strong as, and sometimes stronger than that family bond between the client and their children or adult, you know, their, their kids because it's a pretty intimate space. Usually it's the caregiver's providing care that family members often don't want to because it's personal care. You're, you know, you're, you're dealing with someone in the most vulnerable positions in, in the bathroom, in the restroom, in the shower. So that bond is, is strong and we work really hard to enable that to continue throughout our care. And so family members usually look at that as a positive thing and they're really only talking with us if they see a negative, if they see a challenge there.

Vance Crowe [00:12:19] So the caregivers that you bring in, you get, you pair people up, you find the right personalities? Yeah,

Ryan Whittington [00:12:26] We, we have a pretty open hiring process, so we're looking for people with experience and often those experiences are very different, one person to another. But we go through a matching process essentially when we are matching a caregiver to a client. A good example is a client would come to us and have an advanced level of dementia, meaning that they may try and wander outta the house, or maybe they no longer speak because they've, their dementia has left them in that position where they, they can only communicate through movement or other forms. We're gonna look for a caregiver that has that experience already and introduce them into that situation rather than someone that's very green or doesn't have the training. And so that's what families rely on us for, is to be able to match and have a good success long term.

Vance Crowe [00:13:13] How in the world do you find people in today's day and age that have that skillset and wanna do this work?

Ryan Whittington [00:13:21] Well, traditional routes for sure through, you know, the job postings, but most of it comes through other caregivers that we, we already employ. And so we promote our services through them. You know, caregiving is one of those positions where you, the, it's underscored by just a level of compassion and caregivers really have to feel that they're helping someone that, that they're making the difference. And we allow for that. We allow for that avenue to match them up. And it's hard finding caregivers these days, especially coming through the pandemic. And as you know, we're a, we're a face to face situation, so Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:14:03] There's no, as

Ryan Whittington [00:14:04] Soon as COVID work from home, right? No, there's no, so as soon as COVID hit, we, we were right in the middle, just like hospitals and everyone else of how are we gonna handle this? And we were fortunate to make it work, but the reality is, if a person isn't good working face to face with another human being, they're probably not a good fit for our, for our type of industry. So we really look at when we're hiring people, those communication skills, soft skills, and make sure that they have that compassion.

Vance Crowe [00:14:31] What level of education do people need to, to do the sort of work you're hiring them for?

Ryan Whittington [00:14:36] Well, officially we require a, a high school degree or GED Ultimately, most of our employees have gone through some other state run training, like a CNA program or a home health aid training program. But if someone comes to us with no training, we're happy to provide the training and then even connect them to some of those state sponsored training programs. We, our industry, frankly, is in the position where we can't, we, we don't have the ability to not bring on people with compassion and then train them up. We need more people in our industry because the, the level of need is going up and the number of caregivers available is going down.

Vance Crowe [00:15:13] Let's talk about that. Yeah. What, how, how big is the need getting,

Ryan Whittington [00:15:17] Well, I don't have a, a figure for you, but I would say that, you know, we were talking a little bit earlier, baby boomers are just now entering the marketplace for needing in-home care. Yeah. This

Vance Crowe [00:15:26] Is wild, right? Yeah. You think of them as being much older, but if they're so, such a big part of the population, right? That big balloon

Ryan Whittington [00:15:34] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:15:34] Hasn't gotten care yet, so they're gonna be

Ryan Whittington [00:15:36] That's exactly right. And our workforce has largely depended on the baby boomers as being caregivers. So they're switching roles from being a caregiver to needing the care. And that's a double whammy in, into our industry. So we are looking for ways to connect with younger generations to be able to show them the benefits of being a caregiver and, and how they can help support that system. So we still employ a lot of baby boomers that are, you know, maybe retired and they're looking for some part-time work or through caring for their family member. They realized that they just loved caregiving and so they're, they're working for an agency like ours. So it's a, it's a, it's a tough sell because it's not your it know banker po it, it's a position that, again, you get a lot of benefit from that's outside of financial pay. It's just the, the market doesn't demand a huge salary.

Vance Crowe [00:16:38] Yeah. It seems to me that like, in addition to the things that are obvious, you're wiping people's bottoms, you're helping them in the shower is really just intimate on a level of like, just being in someone's home, I mean, is a, is a level of intimacy. It's, it really probably takes somebody that has not just caregiving, but some level of personal confidence, right. The ability to go into a totally foreign place.

Ryan Whittington [00:17:01] And, you know, it's like watching a paint or paint. When you watch a caregiver navigate that situation when they're in the home, it's not their home. They're in this with this family that's not their family yet they can enter and just provide the confidence that everything's gonna be okay. It's amazing to watch.

Vance Crowe [00:17:20] Yeah. My, my mentor Pete, he's over a hundred years old, he finally had a full-time caregiver come in and you realize really quickly, like, I want to have a good relationship with this caregiver. I want him to understand that when I call, this is what it means. I want to be in a position where we can relate to one another. It's a really important thing.

Ryan Whittington [00:17:39] It is. And and for many of our clients, they'll have multiple caregivers. So when you think about one caregiver, that's great. That person gets to know you real well and, and you provide that care. For many, it's, it's a group, maybe even five caregivers. And so as an agency, one of our tasks, one of the things families hire us for is to get those five on the same page so that it's continuous care and it's not one person's good, the other person's not as good. We really work on that communication. So it's again, amazing to watch caregivers come together to care for this other individual and just the way they deliver that care. It's, it's, it's pretty special.

Vance Crowe [00:18:16] So you've been in this business a long time. Did you do caregiving?

Ryan Whittington [00:18:20] I did when I first started. So we're we, this is a family business. My mom founded it 35 years ago this year. And when I, when I first came into the business, she was pretty adamant, thankfully that I'd be a caregiver first to really understand what we provide and, and how we provide it. And I'll never forget being a caregiver. And again, I did not go to school for caregiving. Most of what my training is came through working at Seniors Home Care. And I cared for a family member over in Kirkwood. They were, it was a couple, they lived not too far from me actually. And so I would work in the office during the day and then I would go caregiver for three hours, three days a week each or three evenings. And it was about this time of year, actually, now that I think about it exactly this time of year, I had been working there for about six months and I asked the family what their plans were for, for Halloween and they explained to me that they weren't going to participate in Halloween because it just wasn't, they weren't able to get the candy and get to the door. And I felt like that was a shame. And, and they had told me that actually for the last three years, they weren't able to do that. And I thought, wow, you know, it, it, I know handing out candy at our, in our neighborhood's a big deal. All the kids come around, you get to see your neighbors, probably neighbors you don't see ever or for all year, but you get to see them then. And so I just floated out the idea, how about I come over on Halloween and they were, I could tell touch, but very concerned that then I wouldn't be able to spend Halloween with my kids.

Ryan Whittington [00:19:52] And I went home and talked to my wife about that and we both agreed that if I could do this for them, for this family, it would be so much, I mean, we're gonna ha we would have more halloweens with, with my kids. And we did. And they ultimately said yes. And we got, we had such a great time. We got a bowl of candy, we opened the door and there were so many neighbors that came by and just, they were excited to see the life in, in these cli in, in these these neighbor's eyes and be able to show off their kids and that they hadn't seen for three years. And, you know, that for me was really the experience that solidified that I was in the right

Vance Crowe [00:20:26] Industry. Wow.

Ryan Whittington [00:20:27] Just you can give so much that you don't even think about throughout the day. And it doesn't have to be caring, it doesn't have to be wiping bottoms, it doesn't have to be all the medical stuff. It can just be simply being there.

Vance Crowe [00:20:39] Yeah. And allowing them to be present in the, in the life, in the culture that, that is their community all around. Right. I mean you're, what you're saying really resonates with me. 'cause last year was the first year I ever did Halloween

Ryan Whittington [00:20:48] Okay.

Vance Crowe [00:20:49] As a parent. And you realize like children are the way you stitch community together. Yeah. Because your neighbors who you might only see as like the guy that doesn't kid his dog to stop barking all the time, right? Yeah. When you bring your children around, there's like this level of humanity. And we went into a place where they had in-home care. Okay.

Ryan Whittington [00:21:09] And

Vance Crowe [00:21:09] The woman was laying on a gurney and like you could tell like, this is a really big thing for her. My daughter doesn't, doesn't know to think that it's awkward or anything. Right. And like I so I, to be able to allow people to function in the culture without just isolating them. Yeah. I mean in some ways it's probably not fair to say, but in some ways going to elder care away from home feels a little like going to jail.

Ryan Whittington [00:21:34] Oh, it can for sure. He, here's the other thing, Vance, I, I, I grew up, so we've been in a, my family's been in this elder care world forever. And so I grew up going to nursing homes at Christmas time singing carol's. It was just what we did. And I give a lot of that credit to my mom. She's a nurse. She's, she was the founder of the company and really the the builder of, of the, of the foundation. And I believe that there's just a, a definite need for those younger kids to be comfortable around older people. Most kids you talk to aren't they just, they're not exposed because we take a lot of the elderly and we put 'em in facilities or ship 'em off or whatever. So any chance that, that I, I would say any chance that you get to include your grandkids or the neighbor kids around the elderly and just let them become comfortable with that's aging, that's helpful. That, that helps us all out because that's what's gonna happen. There aren't enough facilities, there aren't enough workers, there aren't enough anything to meet the need that's coming up for the people that are gonna need the help, which will mean it's gonna take the community, it's gonna take the families.

Vance Crowe [00:22:44] Yeah. Without the, there's an older woman, she might be listening to this podcast that, that lives just, just above our house, like her driveway's above ours and she comes over and just holds our infant child and let's my wife run around and get work done.

Ryan Whittington [00:22:58] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:22:59] And you think about like, I didn't grow up around that. Like I, I was, I lived in Africa before I really was ever around old people as like a regular thing. Of course we'd go see my grandma. Sure. But like, it's a part, it's a change in our culture that I don't think anybody could have ever predicted would happen. And it changes the nature of how people relate to one another. And, and like just the last podcast we did, it shows people that have, are so distant from people getting older, then the only thing you have to do about, the only way you perceive getting older is through this like fear. That's right. I don't wanna be like those old people that are shut away in the nursing home's.

Ryan Whittington [00:23:33] That's right. And, and I would say the same is true for my own kids. You know, I, as much as I say what I just said, I look at are they interacting with, with the elderly as well? And I think, I think so, but I'm always looking for other ways to do that. My kids are big into boy Scouts and so we would write cards at Christmas time or different holidays and deliver them to the, to the nursing home. Most people in the nursing home don't have anyone visiting them. So that when they get those little notes, it's, it's awesome. It's, it's great for them. So I think that the more we can do that, the better. And that in another way happens with our caregivers. You know, it's a, it's an industry where again, people are allowed to be compassionate and that's pretty special. You know, you mentioned a minute ago about it's scary to think about a nursing home. And one, one thing I would say is it's scary to think about moving somewhere for your last time when you think about all the houses that you could move to as a, as a younger person. And you've got really the ability to do any of that at any time. When, when your adult children or someone's telling you that you're gonna move to a facility, whether that's even the nicest one in, in St. Louis, there's still some finality to that. There can be. And that's scary. There's, yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:24:51] It marks the, the last chapter or something and

Ryan Whittington [00:24:53] People

Vance Crowe [00:24:53] Don't imagine like, I'm wants do, wants that and then I'm gonna go out and do something else. Nobody wants that. Nobody

Ryan Whittington [00:24:56] Wants that. Even even someone that's aging. So I I would say especially someone that's aging 'cause it's like one less thing. You have the ability to control,

Vance Crowe [00:25:07] You know, you talked about you got a a sent away at college and he's gonna come back. What age do kids start having to deal with the conversation about their, about their parents? Do they, is it while they're in college? Is it in their thirties, forties?

Ryan Whittington [00:25:24] You know, I I would think it's a little older than that. I would say probably more like 45, 50. That's been my experience. Certainly there are exceptions to that. Most people don't have the conversation at all. And that's somewhat the problem because again, everyone wants to be independent and they want to let their parents be independent. So, you know, it's, it's, it's hard and, and time passes so quickly that before you know it, your parents are 75 and you think they've got everything handled fine and you visit and you can tell that mom is just not making sense and dad's been covering for her for the last year. And so now you start saying to yourself, gosh, what I'm gonna need to do something. And then you start going through fear sometimes because you don't know do they have the money, do they have the resources? Am I gonna need to move? Are they gonna need to move? So

Vance Crowe [00:26:21] Am I gonna alienate them if I ask them? Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:26:23] Right. Yeah. If I bring up the subject, are they gonna be upset with me? So, you know, when will someone need to start thinking about that? I, I don't think it's ever too soon. I know a lot of social workers that would tell you start planning for your own aging now even in your thirties, especially from a, a state and will perspective, powers of attorney, that's never too soon to start planning for that. And I, I think it could also make a difference on how your family has helped handled other situations that have come up throughout life. You know, if your family's been a a very open family about everything, we're probably having that conversation a lot sooner than the family that's been split up for quite a long time and really only meets at holidays. So,

Vance Crowe [00:27:13] So what do you, what advice do you have for people that know they need to have this conversation? Not necessarily 'cause it's dire right now, but like what should people know about starting that conversation?

Ryan Whittington [00:27:25] Well, certainly even though it can be hard and painful and scary, just start it, you know, just call your parents and start it, start the conversation and come from a place of compassion. I would probably call and, and say something like, mom or dad, you know, I, I've really been thinking about you and, and I had a friend tell me that they were dealing with some tough stuff with their, their parent. And I just wanted to call and see if we could have a discussion around how you'd like to age again.

Vance Crowe [00:27:56] I like that. How'd you'd like to age? How

Ryan Whittington [00:27:58] You'd like to age because you're in control of it until you aren't. I mean, you as a, as a younger adult or even, you know, when you get into your sixties, seventies, you're in control. You're in way more control than when you fall and you're in the hospital and you're on, you know, meds and you can't make those decisions. Then again, it's, it's your adult daughter or daughter-in-law or, or if they're not available, it's your son. So how would you like to age? It would be a pretty open-ended question. It's probably gonna call catch 'em off guard. But even if, even if that parent doesn't open up to you with all their bank accounts and all their, you know, financials and how they, you know, whether they want to be resuscitated, do not resuscitate or any, even if they won't, maybe you can encourage them to seek out a professional that can help them.

Vance Crowe [00:28:47] So what is, when, when people sit down at that kitchen table, what are the things that they're thinking about and what are the things that you think, ah, maybe you should be thinking about these things?

Ryan Whittington [00:28:57] Sure. Well, when we're sitting at the table, there's us, something's usually happened. So it's usually someone's coming home from a, a rehab facility or coming home from a hospital and they can't care for themselves. So we're often focused around that one-on-one personal care. If I was thinking about planning, I would think that most of our clients or most of the people that we're talking to the elderly person, they're scared that they're losing control. I mean, that, that would have to be what I imagine that they're thinking about. And so as much as you can reinforce the fact that we're not here to take away your control, we're actually here to give you control through writing down or planning out what you want, that's where you should focus. And I think that really can be powerful with a, with an estate attorney, with a elder care attorney. People often think about attorneys as expensive and they can be, but it's almost like an insurance policy. It ensures that you're gonna be able to do the things that you want to do. And so that's a, that's what I would say is a good, good starting point.

Vance Crowe [00:30:05] Yeah. When we'll have an estate attorney on next week and she, you know, talks about like, Hey, you've done all this work to amass some amount of property or wealth and the, by sitting down with an estate attorney and figuring out what's the end of my life and then how am I going to handle the, the afterwards, like no one will ever resent the parent that thought things through. Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:30:26] It's a gift.

Vance Crowe [00:30:27] But the parents that like thought, you know what, I'm gonna live, I I don't have to worry about this for five or 10 more years. Right. That you can really leave your family in a situation where they don't know anything. Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:30:38] You can And and that's not always financial. It can be, but you know, the medical decisions, if you haven't stated what you want and there are multiple children involved, they may each have their own idea of what you want. And it creates lifelong rifts in families because you, there are situations where one of the family members is making the decision and they question whether that was the right decision for the rest of their lives. So it really can be impactful to lay out. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:31:14] And having different discussions. Right. Well I thought dad wanted this exactly. And no, I dad told

Ryan Whittington [00:31:18] Me, well on Thanksgiving, you know, four years ago he told me that, you know, they didn't want that and the other, the other kid wasn't there, so obviously they didn't hear the conversation. And it's all after, it's all in a time of pressure and big decisions needing to be made and that's a hard time to make any kinda decision. So it really is a gift.

Vance Crowe [00:31:38] So help me to understand, you know, right now we've mentioned somebody to keep you company, somebody to, you know, help you bathe or go to the bathroom. But really like, what are all the services? Like what are all the ways that somebody could care for an older adult that people might not think of?

Ryan Whittington [00:31:54] Sure. And when, when we go in, and it's interesting you talk about this. So there's usually a resistance from the client's perspective to the care. And so, you know, the, the daughter calls us and says, my mom needs help. My, my dad, my mom needs help. And we go down and we sit across the table and they just say they don't need help, they don't need anything. So when some,

Vance Crowe [00:32:17] How do those conversations

Ryan Whittington [00:32:18] Go? Well, it's tricky. I would say usually I tell the adult child, make us the bad guy. Make us the person that you can say, yeah, you know what they, they sound like maybe you don't need them, but let's give 'em a try. So we usually start with a, let's give 'em a try. And the the client usually sees the benefit and, and keeps the services. And in those situations, I would describe our service more as a personal assistant. Someone that can take someone to the muni or to the opera or you know, do some outings, maybe go through the mail or help pay some bills more, again as an assistant. And then as you move up into care and as the person's abilities decline, we help a lot of clients that have issues with their vision. And so, you know, they, they need some help getting around the house or they maybe need help preparing meals 'cause they can't navigate the stove anymore. So the the, the services start to increase at that point. And if you think about what you would do as a, as a, a family member to go over and help your parent, that's exactly what we do. And you'd really probably do anything you needed to to help them be independent. And that's exactly what we do where we kind of, where we draw the line is the safety of the client and the caregiver. And an example of that is, you know, we don't lift our clients because people's backs get hurt. And you probably wouldn't either, you probably would actually as an adult child because you'd do anything for your parent. But if you thought about it, if you knew you were gonna hurt yourself, you'd probably figure out another way.

Ryan Whittington [00:33:49] And so we start talking with people about Hoyer lifts and sit to stand lifts and these different devices in the home that can help everyone be successful with that aging at home. So, but meal preparation's a big one. Nutrition is an area where often people as they age will cut back on healthy foods. They'll, they'll start to do the microwave dinners, they'll start to eat out more and start making some of those bad decisions. So we can come in and caregivers can crack open the old recipe book that they used, that the client used for their whole life and start making those recipes again. And all of a sudden now it's, it's more like home. You know, it's more like it used to be. Oh,

Vance Crowe [00:34:29] That's fascinating.

Ryan Whittington [00:34:30] So the soup that you always made for your grandchildren, now you can make that again. And so there's all those little intricacies that come along with having someone eat one-on-one in the home.

Vance Crowe [00:34:39] And then of course you'd build such a deep relationship, right. If a person can be dedicated to you to learning about not only how to make the soup, but like, when did you eat the soup? What does this remind you of? These sorts of things. Sure.

Ryan Whittington [00:34:50] And, you know, and then the rest of the family start hearing about that and they're more likely to visit and just be the son or daughter or the grandchild or grandson when they know they're not coming over and mom and dad's gonna corner them and ask them to do something, they can just come over and have the soup. They can just come over and have the meal and enjoy the Thanksgiving or whatever that is. There are many times that our caregivers work right through all the holidays. And so they're just there to help out. They're, they're there to make sure that their client that they've been working with forever is comfortable. And if they're a person that needs help in the restroom, that caregiver's there to help them out. And then they can kind of fade into the background and let them be family, be family. So,

Vance Crowe [00:35:27] You know, as you're talking about the resistance, like I remember when we decided we were gonna get my parents a housekeeper because we were like, look, my parents are still living in the house. They raised seven kids in. Okay, this is not a small house. Right, right. And man, the pushback we got from my parents about that until they finally got it right. Yeah. Then once it was in there,

Ryan Whittington [00:35:48] Yeah. Then

Vance Crowe [00:35:49] It was like, oh gosh, why didn't we do this years ago? Well,

Ryan Whittington [00:35:51] And again, I, I'll go back to, that's just kind of the power of a caregiver, knowing how they're helping someone and the conversations they'll have with the, with the, the client at, at the beginning it's all very new and it's very transactional. But as those caregivers and those clients have their conversations and get to know each other, it's a little bit like dancing. You know, you get to know each other and what the next move's gonna be and you already anticipate what it's gonna be. So you can really build a, a really neat relationship. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:36:20] So what is, what are the costs of these things? How do, how do people afford this?

Ryan Whittington [00:36:25] Well, and, and I and I gave you a little touch on the different services. So just again, to be clear so that progression can really work from companionship and just talking through care all the way up to hands-on care, including being present and available at end of life. We have a lot of clients that express to us that they wanna keep their mom and dad at home through the end of life. And of course hospice, we're not a hospice company. And hospice will come in and provide nursing oversight. And what

Vance Crowe [00:36:53] Is hospice? How would you

Ryan Whittington [00:36:54] Hospice I would describe hospice as an organization that helps certainly the client at end of life be comfortable, but also in many, many ways helps the family ne negotiate and navigate this dying process. So not all hospice people are gonna die tomorrow. That's how it's looked at though. You know, most people hear hospice and they think, gosh, I would, I don't want hospice 'cause I don't wanna die. Well, you know, everybody's gonna die. And hospice is a fantastic organization that is very supportive of the family. And their whole goal is helping someone be comfortable at the time of death. And sometimes if, if you're very religious, that can have a religious tone to it, but other times it can just be about your pain and, and just the disease that you have. So it's, it's a fantastic and and I encourage all families, what,

Vance Crowe [00:37:51] What's the line where, how do you decide, hey, it's time for us to take a step back and them to take a step back?

Ryan Whittington [00:37:56] Well, it's interesting. So often, almost exclusively what happens is nobody steps back. We just run parallel to each other. So hospice is provided by nurses and they come in occasionally, I would say. So they come in for like one hour blocks throughout the week. And of course families have their phone number so that they can come in at any given time. When we're there, we're usually there for 12 hour blocks. So long periods of time because we're there for comfort, we're there to assist with, you know, the bed bathing or any kind of continence care helping somebody maintain their dignity as they're going through this dying process. And hospice nurses just aren't able to do that. They could, they're just not there long enough, one or two hours a day. So there usually isn't a pullback, it's usually just that hospice layers on top of our services hospice is provided and paid for through the Medicare program. So families aren't paying any out-of-pocket costs for hospice.

Vance Crowe [00:38:50] So this is like, when you say hospice, this isn't like a, a noun describing some kind of service. Right. This is like an actual proper noun. This is like a, like a

Ryan Whittington [00:38:59] Hospice is a, is a, there are many hospices in St. Louis, there are many hospice companies and families can choose to work with all different one and it's a service they provide.

Vance Crowe [00:39:09] Okay. Yeah.

Ryan Whittington [00:39:10] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:39:11] And so as we were, we got here by talking about like, what does this cost like, right? How does somebody decide what's right for them? Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:39:18] And when we're talking with families, we're always encouraging them to maximize anything that they have already paid for health insurance, Medicare, any kind of long-term care insurance, any of those things. We wanna identify VA benefits, we wanna identify those first so that they can use those and maximize those. Our services are all privately paid for, so we can build long-term care insurance, but otherwise it's, it's a not cash. 'cause we don't work in cash, but it's essentially a family writing a check for our services. And so that, so if a family isn't prepared for that financially, there is a Medicaid route and Medicaid in home care services can help someone and we can connect families to Medicaid companies. We don't participate in the Medicaid program, but again, we can, we can really navigate them towards someone that can, so for us privately paid for, it's essentially 29 to $33 per hour. So it's an hourly service. Minimums are usually in the range of four hours per visit. And it's usually three or four days per week is a minimum. So we're working with clients that want to have us out for a block of time throughout the week. And that price structure is pretty standard. I would, you know, it's a pretty good measure in St. Louis for what you'd pay. I

Vance Crowe [00:40:41] Mean, it's actually shockingly less expensive than what I expected.

Ryan Whittington [00:40:44] We hear that often.

Vance Crowe [00:40:45] Yeah. I I was expecting you to be like,

Ryan Whittington [00:40:47] Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:40:48] $60 an hour to, you know, and I'm sure, sure. Yeah.

Ryan Whittington [00:40:51] It, it, it can be, if you're looking at more of a specialized nursing, like actual nurse and costs have gone up just like everything else, they will probably go up again next year. But I agree if, especially if you're just needing those four hour blocks three or four times a week.

Vance Crowe [00:41:10] Yeah. And I think about like the peace of mind if you're making it so your 80-year-old father Right. Has an easier load and that, that way when you see him on Sunday, he's not, you know Right. Tired and I mean, what, what wouldn't you be willing to pay? Exactly.

Ryan Whittington [00:41:23] Exactly. And you know, when you think about, we talked a little bit about facilities, we talked about home care. When I talk with families that, that call about our services, I often say home care is a great option to try. It's usually a good long-term option. But if you think about what you're gonna do by moving someone and the disruption that causes to their household, and now they have to make choices of what furniture they're gonna take to a new facility. And, you know, there's a lot of disruption there. If you start with home care and coming into the home and you're not doing any, you're not disrupting all of that other parts of their lives. They still know where the light switches are. They still know where the couch is. They still know, you know, the, the doors in and out. They feel safe in their neighborhood. And if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, you can still move. But if you go straight to moving, it's hard to go back to the home care part. So it's for, for the cost you talk about, it's, it's a pretty good value and there's a lot of support that comes from our office in the form of being able to talk to a nurse, other social workers and things that just come along with that hourly service to make sure that everyone's safe. We do a, a home assessment. We look around to make sure that there's everything's in good working order. And that's just again, a added service that we offer.

Vance Crowe [00:42:39] So when you think about getting old, what is old to you?

Ryan Whittington [00:42:47] Old is, I mean, personally for me, old is not being able to move.

Vance Crowe [00:42:53] Okay.

Ryan Whittington [00:42:54] I, I enjoy an active lifestyle and I feel like while slowing down as a natural part of aging, I really picture myself if I, if I'm in a position where I can't move as an older person, certainly anything can happen to us as a younger person and, and you can't move. But that's what I think about as, as old now I do like to the idea of having a sharp mind. So even if you can't move, if you're able to read and have a sharp mind. So I guess maybe I would add on not being able to move and dementia. 'cause dementia really robs you of all those things that, you know, throughout your life. So not being able to remember your family members and your surroundings would be a, an unfortunate part of, and not everybody gets dementia, but that, that to me is what feels old.

Vance Crowe [00:43:47] And when, what, what age do you start thinking, ah, you can say you're old.

Ryan Whittington [00:43:54] I see a lot of active 90 year olds.

Vance Crowe [00:43:56] Wow.

Ryan Whittington [00:43:57] Yeah. So again, I, I think a lot of it is a mindset when I talk with our older clients about what they attribute themselves to being able to grow old is, my grandmother would've told me that or did tell me that it was her nightly glass of chardonnay. So that, that helped her. She never got a flu shot, but her chardonnay helped her stay healthy. And yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:44:22] My buddy Pete j to Jim Martini all the time, it's like a critical part of

Ryan Whittington [00:44:25] Right. And you know, I believe her, I believe she's, she's passed. I believe her, but I also look at her lifestyle and she walked every day reli religiously. She read the paper every day. And even at the end when she couldn't see, she acted like she read the paper.

Vance Crowe [00:44:40] No kidding.

Ryan Whittington [00:44:40] She just, it was, it was who she was. And so when I think about your mind staying sharp and your body staying active, those things combined with maybe the, the gin every night really are what I think can lead towards that, that longer life. And I, I would also say that she was generally happy. She was a happy person. She didn't let a whole lot get her down. And I think that there's a lot to be said for that.

Vance Crowe [00:45:05] Yeah. I think there's something about optimism is it, it draws people towards you. You know, if you're an older person and you've figured out a way to stay away from, from the pessimism that makes it difficult for you to be around. Right? Right. Now all of a sudden you have this vibrant social circle. People check in on you more frequently, you just, things get better. Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:45:24] And you really are bucking the trend of thinking about that's just the old guy over there sitting. He's, he's grumpy. I agree. Yeah. That, that mindset. I had a, I was just remembered. I had a client that I talked with last Friday, and when I called him, he must have known it was me. 'cause when he answered, he said, happy Friday, Ryan. You know, and, and you don't get that a whole lot. You don't get the, the optimism and the just positivity. And I think that that goes a long way. I I do see that with, with our clients that are, have, have lived to be into their nineties and and beyond

Vance Crowe [00:45:59] Because you're around it more. Do you think you have more fear of getting old or less fear of getting old than other people?

Ryan Whittington [00:46:06] Well, I know personally, I don't fear getting older. It drives me to do a lot. Now it drives me to have meaningful re relationships, take the time to do things with my kids and with my friends. And I'm sure many people do that. But I don't, I don't fear getting older. And it probably does come from being around a lot of older people, active older people, people that I would call friends and that, that I can see have still great quality of life into their nineties and over a hundred got, we've got clients over a hundred right now and it's just amazing to watch them and their families interact and just do they complain about the pains that they have? Sure, definitely they do. But you know, they're, they're able to see those great, great-grandchildren and be proud of them. And so I, I don't, I don't fear it.

Vance Crowe [00:47:09] Yeah. I was at a, a funeral home today, just, I was talking with some people there and it, it was, it was a surreal experience because you're looking at the sale of the memorial thing. So they have like a necklace you could have made from the fingerprint, you know, so somebody could wear that or your casket could be pulled by a Harley Davidson Right. To try and celebrate this thing. Sure. And I, when I'm looking at all that, it is like really spooky at first. Right, right,

Ryan Whittington [00:47:38] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:47:38] But then just like the, the purpose of the series, memento Mori that we're doing here, then all of a sudden you're like, okay, well I want to, I want to delay that longer and so I'm going to not take a chance. Like, I was driving home, it was pouring down rain after going to this funeral home, and I was going to like swerve over to try and get to an exit ramp. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to. Do you feel like the calculus of like, what is dangerous or what is, is different in your mind?

Ryan Whittington [00:48:14] I don't know. I mean, I, I, I don't know. Maybe it's like you said, I, I'm around aging so much that I, sometime I, I, I guess I just take for granted that I'll age and, you know, hopefully that's true. And I really do mean what I say about, you know, embracing your family, letting them know what they, what you want and, and how you want it. Because that's really what'll hap that that'll be the decisions that that'll be made. So, I don't know, I just, I I I feel fortunate to be able to meet with so many families and help them navigate this. It's usually their first time. And, and, and that's powerful for me.

Vance Crowe [00:49:00] What do you think is the meaning of this life that we're leading? Hmm.

Ryan Whittington [00:49:06] That's a good question. I'm not sure I've ever been asked that. I think it's happiness. I think that I, I, I am a believer in, in fa I'm a faith-filled guy. And I, I believe in, in God and I, I believe that there would be no reason for us to be here other than happiness. And so looking for that each day is, is what continues to keep me focused on growing even with my own kids. And, and so, you know, I I I feel like, just like that we'll be gone, but there'll were people here before and there'll be people after. And if, if we can exist in a state of happiness, not that, that's always pure pleasure. Because as my son who just came home from PSR last night told me that the struggle is really where we find the happiness. It, it lets us know what we're happy about. And so I think communication, interpersonal relationships is, is a big part of that.

Vance Crowe [00:50:18] What is PSR

Ryan Whittington [00:50:19] Oh, it's, it's the, so we're Catholic and he doesn't belong or he doesn't go to the Catholic school? He goes to public school. Oh,

Vance Crowe [00:50:26] Okay. And

Ryan Whittington [00:50:27] So when you're a public school, you go to PSR, which Paris Parish School of Religion.

Vance Crowe [00:50:34] Ah, we used to call it CCD. Okay. Alright. Catholic catechism something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan Whittington [00:50:38] So same thing. So he's in eighth grade and he's, he'll be confirmed soon and we're just talking about what they learned. So I I was impressed that he remembered that.

Vance Crowe [00:50:49] Yeah. I mean, I, I certainly don't remember CCD having anything to do about the struggle, but I actually think that is correct. Right. Like, it seems to me that there's almost nothing I value that it wasn't a struggle either to attain or to keep. Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:51:04] And

Vance Crowe [00:51:05] I think so much about your younger years is about how do I get right? Sure. How do I get there in that struggle? But when you get a little older, all of a sudden, a whole lot of value comes from like, Hey, I got this great marriage. Sure. What do I gotta do to keep it? And that struggle being not one of conquest, but one of endurance or something, which is maybe, maybe something deep in the, in the, in the experience of, of life.

Ryan Whittington [00:51:32] And it could be one of the reasons why most of the older people I talk to are thankful rather than angry. You know, they're just thankful for everything that they've experienced and continue to experience rather than resenting or, because I, I mean they really, more than anything realize how short life is. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:51:54] That's true. The, the, you know, I have a friend Michael Ring who always says, resentment is a map. Right. It shows you the distance between where you think you should be and where you are. Right, right,

Ryan Whittington [00:52:05] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:52:05] And I can't imagine a more horrible prison than to be in your old age and feel resentful about something. Right. So there's gotta be something to the clearing those types of things up in order to have a life that's good at the end.

Ryan Whittington [00:52:19] Sure. Yeah, I would agree with that. And again, fortunately, most of the families that we work with are coming to us in a place of happiness and strong bonds. And the ones that aren't, you can see it stands out the, the, the adult child that really hires us because they didn't have a good relationship and they're obligated to, to hire us. And I would agree, those are, those are situations that are probably difficult for sure on everyone.

Vance Crowe [00:52:53] Yeah. That, I mean, it's interesting to think about the, like, I've been very impressed with how this is a positive thing that you're describing. Like, because I think so much about getting old is like, delay it as long as you possibly can. Right. But when I hear you describe what the services are and like how you can do it, like I think about my own parents and think about like, man, what, what do you wanna do more than to repay whatever this existence is? And, and I you think about like, well, when you're a kid, you're like resentful of like, oh, mom and dad didn't gimme X or Y or Z Sure. But as soon as you have kids, you're like, whoa, yeah. However they did this, I owe them.

Ryan Whittington [00:53:32] Right. Yeah. No, it's, it's a good chance to, there's a role reversal there, you know, the adult children taking care of the parents and you know, if, if you can allow yourself to be a caregiver for your parent and enjoy it, and there's a way that you can be on the same page with that, it's, it's, it's special. It's, it's definitely more positive than negative. Again, I, I, I think some of the unfortunate challenges that exist in that are things like dementia and just chronic diseases like that because it just robs the ability for that special time.

Vance Crowe [00:54:12] What is something about dementia that you've observed? 'cause you've been around it that most people don't know about?

Ryan Whittington [00:54:20] I

Vance Crowe [00:54:20] Know virtually nothing about

Ryan Whittington [00:54:21] It. Okay. Yeah. Well it, it can present itself very early and most people probably dismiss it. So in the form of, well, so that's true. And now there are more resources than ever. Mainly right here. Wash U is a huge study center for Alzheimer's, let's just say. And, and it just progresses fairly rapidly. It's different for everyone, but it's just amazing how, how quickly it can progress. And you often think about how it affects someone's ability to remember things and their mind, but it does have a very big physical impact on people as well. It's just

Vance Crowe [00:54:59] Oh, it does. Yeah.

Ryan Whittington [00:55:00] Because their mind is controlling their body. And so when your mind can no longer control your body because of that disease, people start declining physically as well. And so that's a big thing to be prepared for.

Vance Crowe [00:55:13] Yeah. Pete, his wife passed away from Alzheimer's and I remember him talking about like how he tried to care for her until one day he had let her walk to church and he looks outside the window and he can see she's walking the wrong way. And, and him being like, she would never have chosen to do that. She made that path. Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:55:33] You know,

Vance Crowe [00:55:34] Thousands of times. Yeah. And that being like a really right jarring moment for him to be like the person that was there isn't there?

Ryan Whittington [00:55:42] Well, yeah, that's, that's for sure. And, and the other thing that I would tell you that most people wouldn't realize is that a, a person with dementia is gonna require twice, three times or four times the amount of care and support than someone that's just growing older and needing assistance. And that is often put on the family. So it's just that much more important to be having those conversations before there's a problem around how do you wanna live your life? Let's talk about what resources, let's talk about what that looks like. Let's talk, you opened with what would I design my home to be? Let's talk about your home. Let's talk, talk to your parents about their home. Is it the home that you grew up in? And it's two stories and beautiful, but they haven't been on the second floor in the basement for the last 10 years. And, and what's that gonna look like as you start needing help?

Vance Crowe [00:56:34] Yeah. My parents started putting in banisters and I remember at first I was like, what do we need all these things for? And you're like, oh yeah,

Ryan Whittington [00:56:40] It

Vance Crowe [00:56:40] Makes it so they can keep going, right? They've got a few more years down there. Right.

Ryan Whittington [00:56:44] And there are so many great resources now. There have been for a long time, but just in the form of universal design and, and designing a home. It doesn't have to be a new home. It can be a, a retrofit to a, a current home. But designing a home so that it doesn't look old, it doesn't look like it's for old people. It can benefit kids, it can benefit just everyone. And, and being able to introduce those resources so that families can plan is, is enormous.

Vance Crowe [00:57:13] So huge farmer audience. A lot of people living out in rural, there's probably people right now in a combine or a grain truck right now, and they've got kids that maybe normally would go into nursing or something like that. If you were gonna make the pitch for talk to your kids about be being a, a caregiver, how would you make that pitch?

Ryan Whittington [00:57:34] Well, I think it would be important to expose them to caregiving, even if they are ultimately going as a, going to be a nurse or a physical therapist or occupational therapist. So many opportunities along the way of being a caregiver as you're learning those things because you don't really know until you experience being a caregiver that that's really what you wanna do. And so I would say teach your kids to be open to caring for someone even if ultimately they don't go that route. And, and I, I believe that over the next 10 to 15 years, the caregiving career, the force, the workforce behind caregiving will accelerate. The cost that I shared with you will go up, but the, it'll go up to create a stronger industry of caregivers.

Vance Crowe [00:58:21] Man, you're really positive. That's exactly right. Right. Like if you need more, if the prices go up, people can provide. Right. And as the number of people that need it go up, you probably see competitors like you were talking when we sat down before we started.

Ryan Whittington [00:58:34] Sure. Right.

Vance Crowe [00:58:34] Like all the other industries that'll kind of come in.

Ryan Whittington [00:58:37] Well the, you know, the worker that we're talking to is maybe also working in the hotel industry. They may be working in retail and not quite realize that this is really their passion. And so introducing them to caregiving is our goal, is our, our charge as an industry. I am optimistic, I'm positive on that. We talked a little bit offline about the whole idea of Uber and how Uber has created this culture for I want to get somewhere now and, and I'm just gonna jump on this app and I'm gonna be there. Yes, I'm gonna pay a little bit more, but it's convenient. I'm gonna give up that personalized experience with my neighbor giving me a ride or my son giving me a ride. But, but I'm not gonna have to bother them. So I'm just gonna jump on that is will be a necessity in our industry as well because there just the, the workforce demands flexibility and the traditional approach that we have as an agency, we will have to change ourselves. The traditional approach where we hire someone, we tell 'em to go there from eight to eight and they go there, that that'll still be around. But there's just so many more people that wanna say, well, I only wanna work on Tuesdays and Thursdays this week between five and seven and if you can't offer me that, I'm not coming to work for you to capture that market. I, I believe that there will be an app, I imagine an app that an adult daughter in Texas can jump on about their parent in St.

Ryan Whittington [01:00:13] Louis and order up a caregiver for three hours on Tuesday and do that once a month. And they'll have, they'll have the confidence because they're used to that type of interaction on an app as opposed to the fa the actual 80-year-old is.

Vance Crowe [01:00:30] Yeah.

Ryan Whittington [01:00:31] But the daughter in Texas is used to that. And she'll get on and she'll see that that caregiver who she has no clue who that person is, but she'll see the reviews, she'll see the five stars, she'll feel comfortable doing that, and she'll order up that caregiver and then she'll give a review. The caregiver will give a review and that will grow. And, and that will be a way forward for that, that client. Well

Vance Crowe [01:00:54] You think about the Instacart that makes it possible to do groceries that way, that has really probably opened up a lot of people to be able to stay in their homes a lot longer. 'cause it

Ryan Whittington [01:01:02] Definitely has for,

Vance Crowe [01:01:02] That used to be the one thing the parent couldn't do anymore if they can't drive.

Ryan Whittington [01:01:05] But I'm still very optimistic on our place from a caregiver client relationship. And I don't think it will be replaced by that app. Just like Uber didn't replace all taxis or all transportation. So I still see our place for meaningful relationships, the oversight, the industry's place for that. I just see the making up the difference with, with technology.

Vance Crowe [01:01:32] That makes total sense to me. I mean, like to me, I think what you guys are actually doing will not precisely be a part of the gig economy. Right? Right. Because like you

Ryan Whittington [01:01:40] Can walk in our door,

Vance Crowe [01:01:41] You talk about somebody that's gonna come in and say, Hey, let's do trick or treating so you can meet your neighbors. Right. That's not gonna be the task rabbit. That's right. Doer. That's, that's something else.

Ryan Whittington [01:01:50] Yeah. Yeah. So, and I love it. I love how that can help certainly our mission at Seniors Home Care, which is to help people age at home.

Vance Crowe [01:02:01] So today was big day for you with, with your business. You wanna talk about that?

Ryan Whittington [01:02:04] Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. We, my mom and I have been business partners for 15 years now and 10 years ago we decided that it would make sense for me to have a succession plan to start taking the business over. And today marks the day we're actually purchased the remaining chairs of her interest in the company. So very exciting and a little nervous taking on a little bit of debt. But, but that's okay. I, I, as you can tell, I and passionate about what we do and am very optimistic about where we're gonna go. And I know she is as well. She and I are very close and talk often and it just for the, for the life of the business and where we're going, made total sense to, to do this.

Vance Crowe [01:02:52] Man. Congratulations. Yeah. You know, it's funny 'cause we met about 10 years ago in a Toastmasters, and I remember you talking about this and I mean, like, to have gone, the distance shows, you're practicing what you preach, right? You're having real conversations about things that actually matter with your family. Well,

Ryan Whittington [01:03:10] And it was important to us that this family business remain a family business in our space. There's a lot of mergers and acquisitions, a lot of companies being bought up by large organizations. And that's just not our culture. So look forward to meeting with, with my team, my whole company and, and sharing that great news with them. I I'm sure they're gonna be excited about that. I, I, again, our culture is very much family oriented and that's one of the reasons why people work with us. So yeah. I'm excited.

Vance Crowe [01:03:44] And now that you have the last of the shares, now it's finally yours. Is there some dramatic giant change you've been looking to make?

Ryan Whittington [01:03:53] You know, no, there's not, there will be changes, but we're gonna, my wife is also my business partner and, and she's gonna become a bigger part of the company and she and I have kind of made the agreement that we're gonna let things ride for a little bit. We, we have a great organization, a great service, great people, and we really want to continue that and then look forward to some other strategic plans that we can, we can take on in the next year. So,

Vance Crowe [01:04:21] So as a 44-year-old man that's taken this on your shoulders, right? You mentioned that you take on debt. Yep. You, you're buying it like what does, what does it feel like, right? Like what, how, what's the experience of being in this? It's another, it's not the final chapter, like moving into a nursing home. It's a different

Ryan Whittington [01:04:38] Thing. Yeah, it feels great and it feels exciting, frankly. I'm excited mixed in with a little bit of, of fear, but I think that that's good. I think that that's a little bit like that struggle. It keeps you going.

Vance Crowe [01:05:01] Yeah, that's exactly

Ryan Whittington [01:05:02] Right. And, and, but I would never let that fear hold me back, so I'm excited.

Vance Crowe [01:05:08] Well, Ryan, this has been an absolute pleasure. If people wanted to have, you know, you or one of your associates come in and talk with somebody from their family, how would they go about finding you?

Ryan Whittington [01:05:19] Well, you could certainly go to our website. It's seniors home care.com and seniors is plural. Seniors home care.com. You could Google us. We're very well found here in St. Louis. And our phone number, if that's what you're into by All

Vance Crowe [01:05:33] Means Yeah.

Ryan Whittington [01:05:34] Is 3 1 4 9 6 2 2 6 6 6. Again, we focus our area, our service area here in the St. Louis Metro area. But we make a lot of referrals across the nation. We're, we're connected to some other affiliates that we can, we can make a record.

Vance Crowe [01:05:47] So if somebody called and they were in Omaha, they could say, Hey, that's right.

Ryan Whittington [01:05:49] Gimme, gimme

Vance Crowe [01:05:50] Some ideas. Or how can I go about finding somebody? Exactly.

Ryan Whittington [01:05:52] Well

Vance Crowe [01:05:52] Man, congratulations on

Ryan Whittington [01:05:54] The business and

Vance Crowe [01:05:55] Thanks for coming by.

Ryan Whittington [01:05:55] Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [01:06:18] Thanks for staying to the end of the interview. As a special treat, we've included a small clip of a legacy interview that we did where the person knew that it was gonna be public. If you are interested in having us record a private legacy interview, go to Legacy Interviews dot com to find out more

Ryan Whittington [01:06:36] Sister-in-law or my sister-in-law, our sister-in-law. Now, Maureen was a friend of Gina's in, when they were at University of Iowa, she married my brother and told me that she had this friend in St. Louis that I should meet named Gina. I said, well, gimme her number. I, I was working in st I moved to St. Louis to work for Monsanto. And she said, well, I don't think I'll give you her number. I I want to introduce you in person. I, you'd probably screw it up if you called her. Correct me. And so it was six months before they came to visit and I just happened to say, Maureen, what about that woman you wanted me to meet? Oh yes, let's call her. So we called and asked, would you like to come to a baseball game on a Saturday afternoon? And of course she was busy. So the only time we could get together while they were still here to introduce me was on Sunday morning. And we said, well, let's go to Mass. And Gina, which is your church, it turned out it was the new cathedral. So we met in the back of the new Cathedral at the 10 o'clock mass in the fall of 84. So.