Former IndyCar Driver on Calculated Risk, Fatherhood, and Running a $300M Insurance Business

Robby McGehee [00:00:00] And I really believe that if I die doing it, I dying, doing what I love. I mean, the, the biggest, the biggest and the only difference is, is having children. I mean, you know, then all of a sudden, your life is not first as the crow flies on the

Vance Crowe [00:00:13] Vance Crowe Podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. I interview Indie racer Robbie McGee. A couple weeks ago, I had a chance to attend a dinner with Robbie, and I was really very interested in the way that he responded to questions and the way that he thought about the conversation going on around him. And it was only later that I found out that he was an indie car racer, and I became quite interested in his calculations of risk and danger. And it turns out Robbie is actually a very successful insurance agent that actually brokers very large deals for multimillion dollar hotels and other types of property. So it's interesting to think about the type of person that could take so much risk and be able to handle danger, and then turn that into a business later. So you'll hear Robbie and I talk about ideas like how do you take adrenaline and channel it into attention and being able to handle these split second decisions that you have to make. But we also talk about things like how did he become an athlete? What keeps him driving forward? And we even talked about the Peter Thiel paradox. That was an interesting part of the conversation, and a lot of it had to do with the way that Robbie is. If you're in a conversation with Robbie, you find out he just kind of wants to ask you questions and be engaged. So he's one of those guests that I will definitely have back because he was just as interested in me as I was in him. And you could tell that it sparks the conversation. We're gonna get to that interview in just a second. But if you're the type of person that enjoys hearing about people from all different walks of life, different ways of thinking, and even different opinions about how things are unfolding around us, then that's what's bringing you to the podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:01:57] And you may be interested to meet other people that are also involved with the podcast. So I've started the Articulate Ventures Network and people that want to support the podcast financially get invited to this network. And there are classes you can take that will help you become a tangibly better speaker. But even more than that, it allows you to interact with people from all over the United States and Canada, and really probably quite soon, the world where you get to hear what their opinions are about things. You get to see talks that they've put together and put up on YouTube, and you get to give them feedback and learn from what others in the network would say could help somebody become better. We have comedians, we have students, we have speakers that go out and do this all the time. And we have people that are really shy, and this is a bit of a stretch for them, but they found that this kind of community allows them to get better at the one thing that makes us human, our ability to communicate with other people. So I'm really looking forward to the type of person that wants to support the podcast and meet the rest of the network. Every edition we've had has made the whole tapestry much more interesting. And if you're the type of person that's looking for a community, this may be right for you. If you're interested, check out Articulate Ventures and see how you can sign up. And there'll be a link below. If you enjoy this interview. Don't forget to like it because hitting that just shows it to other people. And make sure you subscribe and hit the bell because this is the type of thing that allows other people to see this content, and it allows us to build a bigger network of people that are interested in hearing perspectives from all over.

Vance Crowe [00:03:33] So I'm going to stop talking and get to the interview with my man, Robbie McGee, the Indy car racer. Robbie McGee, welcome to the podcast.

Robby McGehee [00:03:49] Thank you. Happy to be here.

Vance Crowe [00:03:51] You're the first race car driver I've ever met, and as soon as I think of race car driving, I think of people that are adrenaline junkies. Are you an adrenaline junkie as a indie race car driver?

Robby McGehee [00:04:04] You know, I mean, I think that's a, that's, that's what a lot of people would originally think, just because you're, you know, you're, you're, you're out there doing 230 miles an hour around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but there there's a lot more that's calculated behind it. I think that, you know, the common, the the best race car driver is gonna be someone that has, let's call it the nerve. There's many things you could call that, you know, along with the train skills and mental understanding of what's gonna make you go fast. Just going out there and putting the floor pedal of the metal's gonna, you know, a not even gonna give you the fastest lap time, it'll feel fast and b you know, put you into a wall hurts yourself. So, so yes, to some extent it's definitely adrenaline. And I don't know if there's anything that people that like to do stuff like that, we'll, you know, we'll try to ration it away like maybe I'm doing now. But it, it's definitely the adrenaline is there, but it's under very controlled measure, you know, with, with a, with a, with a fast operating, you know, kind of brain response time to, to be able to keep up with it.

Vance Crowe [00:05:08] So what is the operating system of a person? Because in order to be a race car driver, you have to have started. You, you can't start when you're like 22, be like, oh, okay, now I'm gonna go be a race car driver. You have to be, have been pushing the limits. How did one, how did you even get into this?

Robby McGehee [00:05:25] You know, it's interesting because a lot of people would say, oh, your dad must have had you around cars. And, and that's not it at all. It was actually my mother, my, my mom grew up in Anderson, Indiana. Her father, my papa was, he, all he did was race. He was, he was the guy and he, he, he, he, he took my mom and her sister, they didn't have any brothers to pretty much every single race, you know, small dirt tracks, you name it. And they, they, they, they, they just just went to every single one of 'em and, you know, when she was growing up. So, so when I was growing up, you know, I was five years old and we would wake up on the day after, or the day before Memorial Day, the Sunday, and it was a holiday watching the Indianapolis 500. We would get up, you know, we'd talk about it the night before we'd wake up, we'd sit as a family and, you know, we would watch it. And, and I saw guys like Bobby, er Al, er, AJ Foy, Johnny Rutherford, poncho Carter, and these guys became my heroes. So it was, it, it was a full day event for us, you know, and it's just, at that point, I knew that's what I wanted to do. There was a slight break where I wanted to be a, a Navy fighter pilot after I saw Top Gun. And I, I actually

Vance Crowe [00:06:41] Didn't, we all

Robby McGehee [00:06:42] Pursued that pretty hard. I tried to, you know, I went and looked at the Annapolis and I went and looked at the Air Force Academy, but I had, I had bad eyes, so I, I'm very nearsighted. So you could, at the time, everybody wanted to be a fighter pilot, and they, they had plenty of them so that, that didn't work. So, you know, I started racing cars where I could wear glasses. And then prior to the 19 99, 9500, my rookie year, I had Lasik dun, because it wouldn't work out too well if I were going 220 and a contact lens flew out, you know, and I couldn't see. So, but, but that was really all I ever wanted to do when I was, when I was eight years old, I believe in 1981, I rode it, and I can't find it for the life of me, but we had, like when I, when I was racing in 1999 for my rookie indy, they, they did a bunch of, they did a bunch of replicas of it. I wrote on that cursive paper, remember the paper with the dotted line in the middle to teach you how to write? And it said, you know, when I grow up, I wanna be an Indianapolis racer. I wanna go 200 miles an hour. I wanna be car number 15. My favorite driver are AJ Foyt and John Johnny Rutherford. You know, I wanna go faster than a plane. And then I, then there was a little construction paper cutout of a black IndyCar, and it was, you know, kind of, you know, it, it was a poster. I've got, I, I definitely have one somewhere, but, so, so, I mean, it's been in, I, I feel like it's, it's definitely in our blood through my, through my mom's side of the family. When we turned, when we turned, or when I turned 15 or 16, my dad sent my mom and I for Christmas to a Skip Barber Racing school at Indianapolis Raceway Park.

Robby McGehee [00:08:16] And that was really the, that was really the start of it. So,

Vance Crowe [00:08:20] And then you're in the, I was, that was gonna be my next question, which is, you know, you're raising kids right now. Amazing. And at some point your family said, you know, most people, they drive cars and they're being taught how to follow within the lines and how to, how to be a normal driver. And at, at some point, your family decided we're gonna tell Robbie that he doesn't have to follow the regular rules. In fact, there's a different set of rules that you play over here, and the game works differently. So I, it, it's very curious to me about what is the experience of teaching a 16-year-old that they don't have to drive like other people do.

Robby McGehee [00:08:57] You know, it's really, you know, it, it, it, there is a negative side to all this. So, I mean, I, I, I went to racing school. I had this idea that I was something different than a normal kid driving on the street. And as I look back, I, you know, it kind of, it, it mortifies me some of the things that I probably did that, you know, w would w that I regret that had I not gone on to be a professional race car driver, I, I would've, you know, if I ever saw a kid doing that now, I'd chase him down and I'd, you know, I, I'd teach him a lesson.

Vance Crowe [00:09:24] Like, what, what were you doing?

Robby McGehee [00:09:26] Well, I was, I was speeding. Like if the speed limit was 35, I went 60. I mean, it was just, you know, I, I was, I was, I, I didn't drink or do any, you know, and when I was a kid, I never, I never did anything that would get me in trouble other than, other than driving cars fast. And, you know, so I would maybe even toy with the police and I mean, and they would get so pissed off. And I, it was, you know, again, I look back, I'm a huge supporter of the blue now, so I'm like, I, what a jerk I to, to, you know, to, to be acting like this. But I would just, you know, I I, we would, we would just go out and, you know, race, and then we'd see cops, we'd slam on the brakes, and then we'd, you know, it, it was, you know, they, they, I probably, I, again, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I was 16, I think I got 17 speeding tickets.

Vance Crowe [00:10:15] Whoa.

Robby McGehee [00:10:15] Yeah. It, it's, it, my, I had one of those attorneys that you could pay 50 bucks and they would amend it, and he, he fired me, said, you're not taking my name down with yours. You know, so, so again, this, this is the, this is the negative side of this. And had I not gone on to, you know, to, to do this as a living, I'd be incredibly embarrassed and still embarrassed, you know, about it. And, you know, and I'm gonna raise my kids very differently in the sense that I'm not allowing them. And of course, my parents were mortified. They, you know, I, I'm, I'm the, the, the, I remember the Ladu police chief called their house and, you know, said, you guys gotta do something. He's not harming anybody, but he is speeding all over the place. And, and, and, you know, and I think,

Vance Crowe [00:10:54] What is the speed, right? Like when you think about why you were pushing the accelerator, I mean, as a 16-year-old kid, I pushed the envelope, right? I went out and in the snow, did donuts in, in church parking lots and, and definitely drove down in ditches and all that stuff. But like, there was some point in which I just didn't wanna push it any further. What was driving you to push it further?

Robby McGehee [00:11:16] It's just, I mean, now this is where you might get back to the adrenaline, and it's just raw because you're untrained at that point. It's just the feel of speed, man. It's, you know, it, it's, it, it, it, it, there's, there's something that's addictive about it. I mean, you get the feel, you get the acceleration, and it's just some, it's just an area. I mean, some people, why do people skydive? Because they, you know, that's as fast as you can possibly go. You know, why do people, you know, ride motorcycles, which I, which I did that for a little bit, and I, you know, lucky I'm still alive from that whole several years of my life. But, but it's just a, it's, it's, you just can't help it, man. If it's there, you tap it and it's, and it, and it's a feel that you, that, that I would get on the inside. And, and I, I don't so much get it anymore, you know, but I, I, I get my, I get my, my adrenaline out of, you know, winning business deals and, and, you know, different, different things now. But, you know, it's just one of those things. Did you feel

Vance Crowe [00:12:11] Full when you were racing? When, when you were racing? Did, did you have, I mean, you are now going as fast as a car will allow you to go. You just have to be in concert with other people. So as you're drinking this up your rookie year, or as you, as you raced more, did it feel satisfying or did you want more?

Robby McGehee [00:12:28] No, it felt really satisfying. So there's a lot I'll give, just go a little bit o off the track and talk a little bit about, you know, racing paths to get to where you go. Like a lot of, a lot of drivers, you know, grow up wanting to race Formula One, because Formula One is really kind of the pinnacle worldwide, you know, racing. The, the, the pinnacle in the US is the Indianapolis 500. And I was always really satisfied with that. A lot of the guys I grew up racing with, they went to Europe, they moved there, they, they, they, you know, they, they rented flats and, you know, drove for teams in Formula three. And I, I just had no interest in doing that, man. I wanted to go to the Indianapolis 500. 'cause that's what I grew up, you know, I just shared the story with you, what we did on the, on the days. And, and, and that was, that was all I wanted to do. So I focused on, I'm going to do what it takes to get to the Indianapolis 500. So, so, you know, coming up through that, I don't remember what the original question was, but you know, I, I was focused on getting to that one race. Okay. So, yeah. So when I got there, I remember the first time I'd ever been on the track was, you know, we, we, I went up a month before I was gonna qualify and got on the, the, the bus that drives you around with the museum tour, this, a tour that everyone was on, anyone who wanted to go could have gone on it. And, and you got in line, you got on this bus and you're going around on this bus full of 20 people. It's like one of those rental car van buses or whatever you would get on. And it's like, holy crap, this course is narrow. And you start three wide on that. So that's the first thing I thought, like, what did I get myself into here?

Robby McGehee [00:14:01] This is insane. And these cars are big cars, and, and you start three wide, so there's not a lot of room there. And then I got up there and I did my rookie testing and you know, it's just, it's one of those things where everything around it and surrounding it is, I, I miss that so bad. I miss the lifestyle because it's like, you know, it was a very different mentality when I'm leaving, I travel lot for work now, and, and I know I'm coming back and I'm, you know, and, and it's like, it, it's just kinda like, I, you know, every now and then I've got three triplets that, you know, that are 11. So it's like, okay, I get to leave the house for a little bit, get catch a break sleep one night in a hotel. But then it's like, the minute I get there, I, you know, I miss, I come back. But, but, but when I used to leave to go racing and I had no kids, but I dogs and I would just kind of pet my dog and say, I hope I see you on Sunday, or on Monday when I return. Because, because you're going out there putting your life on the line. And I, I know three or four people who, who who've died that I was friends with, that were racing with and around me. So it was, but then I

Vance Crowe [00:14:58] Were you coing of it. So, I mean, like, it's one thing. It's like, that's something that's most people, they never, ever confront their mortality, right? And they're, they're maybe working in a job where they're going into State Farm every day and, and just trying to bring home money for their family. But, but the idea of having a concept that in a, in the blink of an eye, you could be gone. Most people don't face that. You are facing it as you're petting your dogs. Did that stick with you? Yes. Do you still have that sense of mortality?

Robby McGehee [00:15:27] No. No. I don't. I mean, because I was doing, you know, I was doing, you know, something that I, that, that could easily kill me, you know? But here's the thing, when you're young, you're kind of like, you know, what if I, if I die doing, and this is what I told people, and I really believe it, if I die doing this, I die and doing what I love. I mean, the, the biggest, the biggest and the only difference is, is having children. I mean, you know, then all of a sudden your life is not first.

Vance Crowe [00:15:52] That scares the hell out me. 'cause I got kid, I a child coming in August, and I, I've been running around doing what I wanted to do for a long time. So my mortality was not all that important before.

Robby McGehee [00:16:01] Well, I mean, you, you can measure it. I mean, you know, you can, you, you can certainly measure the things you do. You know, I'm already scared, you know, everyone's saying, are you getting your kids in, in go-karts and getting them going? And, you know, my mom, who is still my biggest fan is, you know, she's pushing towards that. And I'm like, please stop. They're, they're really good at hockey. I got 'em playing baseball. They're on these select sports teams. They've got great coaches, they're athletic kids. Let's just, you know, and I never really had much of that. I, I, you know, I, I did play some sports when I was a kid, but, so I, but I didn't, but, but I didn't play anything that I could go to college on or, you know, play super competitively in high school. So I think that I want to try to keep them focused on that, where they're, you know, where, you know, where there's certainly risks with hockey and such. And every doctor I've ever seen said, don't let your kids play football or hockey, but whatever. It's like the alternative is that they go racing. So the, the football or hockey is gonna seem a lot more,

Vance Crowe [00:16:56] Man, this is hilarious. This is like the funniest thing in the world, that the, that the race car driver, the one that his mother brought him up, is now like, no, no, no. Leave, leave my freshest children alone.

Robby McGehee [00:17:07] Yeah, it's definitely a different perspective.

Vance Crowe [00:17:11] One thought that I have about sports that I'd really not thought of until all of them were canceled is that when you're feeling this adrenaline and you're going around that track, it's a different experience for somebody to watch the Indy 500 on TV than it is for them to be in person. Because in person, they may literally watch a car fly straight into the wall, blow up, see people die, right? You're right on the edge of chaos. And that allows people to resonate with a level of excitement and deal with risk at a, at a societal scale where they're not the ones in peril when we don't have sports. To be able to be that, that synchronization with people getting so alert and so caught up in a moment, it seems to me that that transfers into society and that, and that by not having sports, we have this kind of internal, I don't know, angst or something. You've been there where people, thousands and thousands and thousands of people are cheering you on. Is this assessment, right? Is this like a societal catharsis that people have by going watching sports?

Robby McGehee [00:18:14] I think so. I mean, I think you can definitely say, I mean, anyone who says they've watched IndyCar or NASCAR or whatever on TV and think they've seen it is, you know, I've always just said, you know, you have to go see it, man. If you've never seen in Indy 500, or even here in St. Louis, now the, the, the gateway race is back and stronger than ever. If you've never seen it, go watch it. 'cause it's nothing, it's nothing like what you would see on tv. I mean, you gotta think there's a combined, you know, 30,000 horsepower out there, you know, pedal to the metal operating cars going, you know, 190, 200 miles an hour on this track over here. I mean, if you, if you haven't seen it in person, you haven't seen it. And, and, and even if, even as a casual fan, you, you, you're, you're, you're over there, it's like, holy crap, this is a lot right here that's happening. And, and, and it's, and, and, and you gave it the absolute best. I mean, wow, that was a good analogy. I mean, on the edge of chaos. I mean, because because you're one, you know, you, you're, you're, you're, you're one small fractional way of somebody messing up and, and, and creating complete chaos that could, you know, that could, that could severely injure people in lives. And, you know, and, and, and even in the, you know, even in the, in the, in the grandstands, I mean, you're not safe. We've learned that the first race I ever went into was in Charlotte before the 19 99, 9500. There was a car crash, a wheel flew off a car and killed three fans. And it, they canceled the race. That was my first ever race in an IndyCar. And so, and they canceled the race after like 60 laughs. So, so it's, it's, it's a, they thank God they fixed it. And that was a terrible, terrible event.

Robby McGehee [00:19:45] 'cause those people just showed up not knowing that they could die, you know? But, but at the same time, you know, it, it is just awful. There's, there's, there's no other way to put that, but it is a, it is, it, it's an event that people go, there's a ton of adrenaline in the, in the audience. When I watch Indy 500, even now just on tv, I still go up usually once a year for it. I mean, when they play back home in Indiana, I mean, I got goosebumps all over the place when they, you know, when these gentlemen, lady and gentlemen start your engines, it's just, you just, it, you can't really describe it till you've been there. There's 550,000 people. I mean, they're bigger than, you know, many cities in the United States, in, in the Indianapolis motor Speedway. It's insane. I mean, it is the only way to do it. So I would highly encourage anybody that has, has, has thought about it, it'd be kind of cool. Maybe flip it on tv, make it a bucket list item, go to a track close to you. Watch it, because it's, you won't, I don't think anybody would regret it, because it's not what you're seeing on tv. On tv. You know, there's one camera angle that makes the cars look fast. And that's the one they put right outside the turn, you know? And you see the, all you see is, but, but, but when you see it in person, it's like standing there watching an airplane go pa past you at full speed. I mean, it's, it's just wild.

Vance Crowe [00:21:00] When you're in the car and you are flying down the track, are you aware of the crowd,

Robby McGehee [00:21:07] The, the crowd? So it's interesting you ask that. So the crowd, you know, you're, you're there all months practicing and all you see is just, you know, you're inside this like gray, you know, gray grandstand, you know, surrounded by gray grandstand. So you obviously can't see the grandstand. It's just a blur, but it's all one color, then all of a sudden on race day. And, and what's really important in racing is your site picture, you, you, you, you mentally set, here's where I'm gonna turn in for this corner. And you set it off of things around the track. So you've got a site picture, and that's what's so important to race car drivers. And your sight picture is your brain operating 230 times faster than any normal individual's brain, because you can all of a sudden snapshot what you see. And that's where I'm gonna turn in. Well then all of a sudden on race day, it's technicolor, man. All you see is color. So, so while you may have the same little, you know, cue to turn in, it's, you know, everything else in the site picture is very different. And I'll compare it to, you know, what I heard another driver compare to. It's like you look at like, you know, one of my closest friends is Jim Evans. He's talked to me about, you know, hitting baseballs. He is looking and he can see the stitches on the ball all the way past him, all the way down. So he knows what the ball's doing. By looking at the stitches as it comes, it's that exact same concept, translate it into, I'm gonna race car now, and here's my sight picture. If I stand up at the plate and somebody throws a, a, a major league pitcher throws a pitch at me, I'm probably not even gonna swing the bat before, before it's in the catcher's glove. Not to mention I can't see the damn stitches. I mean, you know, so, so it's, it's really a comparison like that. So there's definitely other athletes and other sports where, where you have that same kind of mental capacity going on.

Robby McGehee [00:22:40] But, but, but racing is, is, is is a very physical, you know, I've heard people say race car drivers are, they're not athletes, whatever. It's, it's massively physical. But

Vance Crowe [00:22:48] Why you're in a car, you're just holding the steering wheel. Why do you say that? It's, I mean, is it 'cause you're putting GForce on yourself as you're coming up a bank or what

Robby McGehee [00:22:57] You're, I mean, let's just put it this way. In a typical race, you lose about five or six pounds of water weight. You're putting about three and a half to four lateral g-forces on, and I don't know if you've had an exercise where that you've ever been involved with personally where being mentally drained is actually more tiring than being physically drained. And, and when you got the combination of both, like, I'll give you an example. Eddie Cheever, who's buddy I raced with him for years, actually raced in one of his Red Bull cars back in 2002. He was talking about how do we compare racing to others? So, so football, you get to go for 30 seconds or whatever, then you get a break and you get to go for 30 seconds. Racing is, is imagine sitting in a chair reading a book with small print, having somebody sitting there shaking the chair like this, going crazy. And if you, you miss a word, somebody hits you in the head with a baseball bat, you know, that's, that's, that's the cost of missing a word. Because you're taking, you're in a vehicle moving two football fields per second. And if you mess, mess up or Miss Q, you hit the wall and there's nothing, you know, they've got all the safer barriers. They call it the soft wall. Nothing soft about it. It is, you know, it, it's gonna cost your team owner a half a million bucks every time you hit the wall. And you're lucky to be alive after you every time you hit the wall, because if, if you're, if you're awake, which is good, it hurts like hell, I, every time I happened to me, it's like, okay, I'm still awake. So

Vance Crowe [00:24:19] You hit the wall.

Robby McGehee [00:24:21] Oh yeah. I mean, I've got, I broke my back, I broke my legs. I've had five concussions. I started smart. I, I started with a pretty high, high iq I think when I got into this, and I dunno if it's the, you know, the, the hitting the wall or the, the, the, the bud lights that I like to drink, but I probably don't have as much mental acuity I did before I started, but I have had five concussions, so I've, I, you know, it, it is what it is. I mean, it's, it, even with all the safety nets in there now,

Vance Crowe [00:24:48] So you're in an interesting position because you went from being one of the most high risk professions you could have, you know, they don't even include you in on the statistics, right? It's not like they're like race car drivers. They get pulled out. 'cause everybody's like, yeah, those aren't normal people in our, in our actuarial sciences. But you then are involved in insurance, which means you have a fundamental, a business understanding of risk. So what do you think that, that you're like, what, what is going from a race car driver that was handling risk to now being a businessman that manages risk? What, how does that work?

Robby McGehee [00:25:24] Well, I mean, you know, the first thing everybody thinks of, or I think about it, and it's kind of funny, the movie along came poll with Reuben Feer, you know, it's like managing risk. Everything he does in life, he says, you know, my odds are here. My odds are here. So that, that's not really what it's like at all. I mean, I work, I work with construction and developers and health insurance and you know, and it's, it, it, it's not a career that I went on and said, Hey, I'm gonna do this. But it's a career that my father was in for 40 years. He still is in it. And, you know, and what is

Vance Crowe [00:25:50] It? I only know vaguely that you do like some type of very specialized

Robby McGehee [00:25:55] Insurance, insurance and risk management. We're an insurance broker. We, we aren't the insurance company. So we don't, we don't underwrite the risk. We, you know, we're, we are, we're the sales force for, for, for most insurance companies, most insurance companies do not have their own sales force like a State Farm. They would, they're, that's what you call a direct writer. But we worked with the Chubbs, the travelers, the Zurich, and, and, and they're, they're big insurance companies that utilize the broker network to, you know, to provide coverage. So, so what we do is, you know, we, we, we, we, we find, we source the client. We, we learn their business and you know, then we bring our product. And frankly our product is, you know, there's, there's a lot of people in our business. It's, we got a business full of mediocrity, which I love because it makes it easier to stand out. But, but we all sell the exact same insurance product, but our real product is our advice and our service. I, I, I went in, you know, my, my my dad who's been obviously a huge mentor, and I, he's still around and I, I still, you know, I i, I still call him when I run, you know, when I get perplexed on, you know, running a business. And, and he is super helpful, but he just, he, he always told me this and I remember it, and it served me very well. You know, there's three things, three real things that matter in our business. It's honesty and integrity, knowledge of your business and, you know, willingness to serve. And that last one is, is what I believe has gotten me, you know, has helped propel us. And, and the, and the willingness to serve is, is, I think he got that, you know, from from, from being in the army, you learned it.

Robby McGehee [00:27:28] You know, you're gonna, well, I guess there you're gonna do it or you're do it no matter what, but it's just willingness to, to, to spend time. You know, you just, just, Hey, I work for you. What can I do to help you? I'm here to help you type thing. So, so that's really it. I mean, it, it's not a super complex business, but it, you know, it, it, it can be, you know, on a lot of the, you know, there, there, I, I shouldn't say that. There's a lot of very complex things that, that we work on and do. But, but the reality is, you know, we're, we're an insurance broker. If you, if if you have a company and you need insurance, that's what we do.

Vance Crowe [00:28:03] It strikes me that you have an interesting view on the nature of human beings, right? Because you've been around a bunch of people that have all decided they're gonna strap themselves into cars that can go as fast as airplanes or, or try as hella hard as they can. And then you also are in a position where you're meeting with people that have built something and they want to protect it, right? And so between those two divides is basically everyone in the world. Everyone wants to build something and protect it, but not everybody is willing to strap themselves in. And even some people that are willing shouldn't be there. What do you think that you know about human nature that the, the average person wouldn't?

Robby McGehee [00:28:43] That's a, you know, that's a, that's, that's a tough question. I mean, I, I like to, I always put myself in the position of, of, of kind of who I'm talking with. I mean, so, you know, so I'm, I deal with, we deal with a lot of different people. We do, you know, I like dealing with business owners because I am one. And, and when I, you know, and when I, when I'm going to help them, I say, well, here's what I do, you know, and just like when I go to my financial advisor, like, you know, Hey, what do you wanna do? I wanna know what you're doing. Like, because, you know, I want, you know, I want to know how you do it because you obviously have money. And I want to know how, what, you know, how you protect it. And, and, and I typically find, find people in that role. And, and I hope, you know, and find other, you know, clients that are, that, that, that do things and live life kind of in operate business in a similar manner that I can, so I can go to them and say, I'm not just trying to sell you something, this is how I do it. And, and, and for example, like, you know, I, when when I'll tell people not to insure something, like, I mean, if I were me, I wouldn't insure that even though I don't make any money and I don't really care. I mean, I wouldn't insure that if I were you or I would take the really high deductible option, you're never gonna have a loss. Just buy a high deductible. Ensure the risk that you can't afford to lose. Like if you can afford to, if you can, you know, if you lose, if, if, if you have a, a $5,000 couch, it gets ruined and it's not gonna put you out of business or change your day in a terrible way. I mean, sure, it's a bummer. Don't insure it. Like don't spend the money on it. But if, you know, if, if, if your house burns down and now you got a million dollar, $500,000 problem, you better insure that.

Robby McGehee [00:30:17] 'cause then that, you know, that's, that's gonna change your day. So I just try to, you know, I, I don't know that racing or, or or anything I learned there really, you know, comes into it. It's every now and then I'll run into a person that, that loves to talk about it. Because race fans are very select, either are or you aren't. And when you, when, when, when we find one that is, you know, we'll call to talk about insurance or construction or rebuilding or whatever else, and, you know, spend the first 15 minutes talking about the Indianapolis 500, which I, I, I love doing that. I don't know how much it helps me in business, but I certainly enjoy the conversation. This,

Vance Crowe [00:30:48] That's a surprising answer, probably very, very honest. My, my sense is that people, as you were saying, you know, like you had kids and all of a sudden your calculation on what is risk and what is dangerous and what is worth it, all of a sudden starts changing. And I know that I've felt the, the pull where you're looking at insurance and you're like, you know what? I don't know. Just, just in case, I'm gonna keep stacking that on there. And to hear somebody say like, Hey, I, I give advice where it's, you don't need to ensure that. It's kind of a fulfilling feeling for me to hear you say that.

Robby McGehee [00:31:21] Well, I mean, look, I mean, we're, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're big game, you know, we're, we're in for, we're in it for the big picture. I mean, ultimately people are gonna need insurance. Different people need different insurance. I mean, we, you know, we, we do everything from, you know, from a person trying to insure a home and a couple cars, you know, all the way up to, you know, our, our, our, our biggest deals are, you know, $400 million, hotel, construction, you know?

Vance Crowe [00:31:44] Oh, wow.

Robby McGehee [00:31:44] Condos in it. So, so that's, so that's really what I do, dude, you're

Vance Crowe [00:31:47] Straight up on, you are straight up outta outta your mind if you think that that's not high risk. I mean, like anybody talks about numbers like that you're talking about more than what we would value a plane full of people at, you know, like the, that's, that's, that's a huge amount of money.

Robby McGehee [00:32:01] It's huge risk. And without trying to get too detailed on it, what I typically do, my, my specialty and, and here I'm where a boutique shop in St. Louis, and every time I'm competing, I'm competing against Aon and Marsh and Willis, the, the three largest that are 300, 3000 times the size of my, my, of my shop, even though we are part of a bigger conglomerate now. But, and, and, and, and what, what my specialty is, is, and it's not so much, I don't, I do 80% of our business outside of the state of Missouri, we are all over the coast, and the coasts are where there's really high construction defect litigation. So, so, so I, so basically, essentially, I, I provide and put together programs for the insurance that would go on a $300 million condo slash hotel construction building. And then three years later when the people have already moved into it, and, you know, there's a leak that causes somebody to get, you know, mold and, and, and get sick from mold and, or there's subsidence, the whole building sinks. And it comes back to, to, to faulty construction three years after it's done up, you know, most states can say up to 10 years after it's done, everybody who built it is still liable for it. So, so that's really what I specialize on. Those are my, those, those, those are my specific ones. But you know, what, if, if you, if somebody calls me and said, Hey, Robbie, can you help me with my house or my boat? I'm like, yeah, sure. I mean, that, that, that, that's easy. That's not what I look for. But so, so we're, you know, I I, my specific, you know, specialty and is, is, is with large developers, large contractors, and, you know, and we, and of course we do plenty of business in St.

Robby McGehee [00:33:36] Louis, you know, it, we banks, our, our mutual friend, we do their bank and, and, and, and, and have great people on that as well. But, but what I, you know, what I wake up dealing with mostly is, is usually related to some sort of large construction.

Vance Crowe [00:33:51] So if people aren't watching this, they're just listening to it. They don't know that you look jacked, dude, you're like 40 something years old and you look like you're in great shape. What do you, what do you do? Like that's, I I think there's, I think it's always good to ask people this because it's not an accident, right? And it's good to find out what are you doing, just like the, the financial guy that's done well with money. It's good to know. How did you get that? Good? I always wanna know what does somebody do to look Jack like that?

Robby McGehee [00:34:18] Well, I'll tell you. And it's, you know, just to give a little background on that. So like, I'm a guy that I don't, I I, I'm not fearful of it. I accept it and I love it, but, but I'm not, I I, I mean, I still play video games every single day with my kids, with my friends. I still, I, you know, I, I, during the Corona downtime, I mean, I, I somehow now own seven pinball machines that I work on myself and I play. I mean, I'm, I'm, I so, so, so being young and keeping the mind young is really important to me. And part of that is keeping, you know, the body young. And, and I, I, I wouldn't say it's, this is intentional, but you know, I've, I've always, I've always trained. I used to train two or three times a week, maybe, you know, two times a week and looked fine. I mean, just, but I just said two or three years ago, I'm gonna train every single day. And that's either swimming Peloton, which I, which if you get on and follow me on Peloton, you'll know that I'm slightly lying about that one because I haven't been on it in a while. Because, because, you know, I, I'm, I go on the Peloton when I can't leave the house. When we were stuck inside the house and nobody was going outside, I was on the Peloton. I, I, I've been doing some really cool agility type training, which isn't up, split up my, my, my training. But, but I'm, I'm just training every single, every single day, five

Vance Crowe [00:35:45] Week when you decided to do that. So I, I, I did something similar, right? Where I was like, Hey, I've never been a runner. And so last year I decided, well, what would it take to be a runner? And I decided I'm gonna run 500 miles. 'cause if you run 500 miles, by the time you're done with that, you're

Robby McGehee [00:35:58] A runner.

Vance Crowe [00:35:58] You're runner, right? And so I kind of thought that, and the thing that having a goal like that, the same way that you're saying I work out every day, is that it gives you something to push back on. The voice of resistance. And the voice of resistance is that thing where it's like, Hey man, you know, you worked out kind of hard yesterday. Your knees hurting a little bit. Maybe you should sleep in, or maybe you should take a day off 'cause you don't want to go too hard. Do you have that voice of resistance? Do you have to fight that?

Robby McGehee [00:36:22] Yeah, and I mean, I, I, I work out with trainers. So, so here's, that's the other thing. Like if I, if I skip, I'm letting them down. So, so, so I think that's a, that's a, that's a huge deal. When we were not allowed to leave the house, I was, you know, sure, I'm, am I gonna go swim a hundred laps or 50 laps today? I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. Ah, man, I'd rather sit here, but, but I just make it a part of my day. And it's like, you know, and even if I'm busier now, which I am, and you know, I, I, you know, I sit here, you know, dealing, you know, we got a certain thing we're dealing with now with our, in our company that, that keeps us all busy. But I just make it part of my day and I'm not gonna schedule a call in, like, if I have to end a call because I've got an appointment, I'm, I'm going. And it's, you know, and it's, and, and, and, and I, and I do it. And I'll tell you something that most people wouldn't likely know about me, which is kind of just funny. And and some people might find, you might remember what, when we had that dinner together. But I'm a major sweet tooth. Like I eat dessert. Me too. I absolutely have no control over, you know, I can try, you know, during the day I can go to lunch and I can order like a chicken and broccoli and, you know, I'll put hot, spicy sauce or whatever on the chicken to give it something. But man, like, you know, when, when, when my wife Norma cooks, you know, it's usually kids type stuff, like butter noodles or whatever. I'm gonna absolutely crush that. And then if there is a pint of ice cream in our freezer, I'm gonna crush that too. And if there's Oreos around, they're gone. So I've, I've asked her very many times, please don't buy this stuff in our house, to which she still buys it.

Robby McGehee [00:37:54] And I still stuff You got

Vance Crowe [00:37:55] Kids, man. You got kids.

Robby McGehee [00:37:57] I know. So I, and, and, and I'll, I, I, I can't even try to help myself sometimes if I, if I'm laying in bed at 11 o'clock and I know that there's Oreos in the house and I'm like, I'm kind of hungry, but I'm half asleep. I'm like, the Oreos are gonna win. I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go pork all pasta milk in, in and eat Oreos, it's like outta bed. It's like, why would I do this? But I mean,

Vance Crowe [00:38:14] I'm the same way, and like, the only way, the only thing that I have defend that off, and it's, in particular, if I have smoked a little bit of weed or something, like there's no chance that I'm gonna be able to do that. And so for me, what I've done is I, I do one of two things. I either just get out a bowl of frozen cherries because you, I, I can't chew cold things, so I just can suck on 'em down. And so I get that sweet tooth that's really good. But the other thing that I do is I brush my teeth because I hate brushing my teeth. And so if I brush my teeth, then I'm like won. Oh, if I gotta go have another cookie, or if I go pour myself some honey nut cheers, I had brush my teeth again.

Robby McGehee [00:38:54] Yeah, I know those late night smorgasbord coming home, man, I'll just open start opening the kids' yogurts. I'll open bowls of cereal, I'll have lunch meat. I just line it up like I'm gonna knock everyone any time.

Vance Crowe [00:39:04] And I think that that's the funny thing for, for people like you and me, like, I have figured out that I don't have the ability to force myself to go work out unless it's a part of routine. I don't eat well, unless it's a part of a routine. And any one of those things where I start cheating on the margins, where I'm like, maybe I can get away with this. Like, I tried this cool, fun trick on myself where I let myself buy some honey nut cheerios, and before you know it, that's what I'm eating, right? Before I go to bed, I'm just shoveling Honey nut Cheerios in, I I'm same as you, man. Like, get it outta here. Because if my mind doesn't have the option to use it, it won't. Right? And that's the only way I can manage that kind of stuff

Robby McGehee [00:39:40] There. There's no question. So I mean, that, that's an area where, you know, especially during this time where we're stuck at home, it's, you know, when you, when you're training five times a week, you can afford to do that. And it doesn't really, it's not gonna stick on you. So, so, so I, you know, I, I, the, the, the, the exercise part is just routine. Man, I don't have a choice. I, I leave my house every, you know, I I, I, I'm gonna do it no matter what, no matter what's happening. It doesn't matter if the world's exploding around me, I'm doing that. And, and I just did that. And then, you know, five months later it's like, holy crap. Like I got, I think I was four 14% body valve. I've never been that low in my life. All 14 of that percent is right in my gut, but I mean, I'm still not there yet. But, you know, it's, it, it, it, it makes a difference. I mean, there's, there's, there's a reason it works, you know? And then of course, as you know, once you've, once you see the results, it feeds off of itself. It's like, wow, this worked. I mean, you just gotta go in with blind faith for the first, you know, 3, 4, 5 months, but then you're seeing the results. It's like, wow, this is awesome.

Vance Crowe [00:40:41] Yeah, I'm, I'm fond of telling people the, so I was, I don't know, two 50, and then I decided I was gonna go work out. In fact, my father-in-law took me to a psycho, a spin class, and I thought, oh, this would be so easy. And after 10 minutes I wanted to throw up, and he was just plugging along just fine. Yeah. So I realized like, Hey, this is a problem. And I started working out, but I did the audio book of Atlas Shrugged, and by the time I finished it, I had dropped 40 pounds and had the habit of working out. And so that's what I always tell people, like, find some chunk where you're like, I'm not gonna judge myself for how well I'm doing until I'm at the end of this, and then we'll figure it out. To me, that's the only way to make it work.

Robby McGehee [00:41:20] Wow. That's, first of all, congratulations. That's huge. I never knew you were two 50. I've, I've only, I think I've seen you in person two times and you're pretty tall and thin. So I, that's, wow. Congrats.

Vance Crowe [00:41:31] It's only by, by luck. Don't bring these Cheerios in here. So, so one of the things that I wanted to talk with you about, and this is something I don't ask everybody, because it's a difficult question and it really will challenge you to, to say something that people aren't gonna agree with. So the question is, the Peter Teel paradox, and we've talked about this a little bit, but is what is one thing that you believe is true that nobody agrees with you on?

Robby McGehee [00:41:56] And you sent that to me last night, and I sat and thought about it, and I'm like, and, and, and, and the fact that I'm having a challenging time coming up with it, I'm like sitting here thinking, man, maybe I am sitting in my own echo chamber. Like all my friends that I politically debate argue about accused me of like, man, I just, yeah. I wish I could say, I think the earth is flat, but I know it's round. You know, I mean, like, I, I just, I, I I, I, I've just had a really challenging time thinking about that. I mean, like, what do most, what, what have most people said or what, do you have an example or what, like, well,

Vance Crowe [00:42:28] Mine, the, the one that, and so for me, they hit me like a meteor, right? Like I, I, I think that you have to have this question on your mind so that as you're working out or as you're focused on something, you know, you can have an idea and you can decide, is this something I wanna pursue or not? But a while ago I had the idea that I think that East St. Louis is one of the saddest places on earth. Like, it does not fulfill the human innate desire for people to have productive work, to have, to have the ability to progress and move yourself forward. And I think a lot of that has to do with the politics of the state of Illinois. So my point of view is Missouri ought to put together a pile of cash. And when Illinois finally hits the skids, and they can't afford to pay for all the things that they have to pay for, we offer to buy that entire area all the way out beyond Cahokia mounts. So a lot of people don't realize that Cahokia Mounds is one of the great, yeah. Indigenous culture sites in the entire world. There's these mounds, there are these pyramids that are the largest in the Western hemispheres. They're, they're awesome north of Mexico. They're, it's amazing. And it, it was an old culture that was here that disappeared. And I think we should be bringing back the value of the Mississippi River, the industrial corridor that's right there, and create a space where people that wanna start businesses or do things that are normally reserved for some other place to be done there and, and allow a human experiment of freedom and liberty to try different types of businesses there that we're not trying right now. And I think that we'll see that regenerate.

Vance Crowe [00:43:59] And you could end up having East St. Louis look like Brooklyn looks onto Manhattan, where you're on one side of the river and you've got a beautiful side, and you look over at the other side and it looks beautiful too.

Robby McGehee [00:44:09] Yeah. I mean, I've actually never thought about that, but I can tell you now, one of my closest friends has a business gateway Motorsports Park, where we just talked about the indie racing stuff.

Vance Crowe [00:44:19] Oh, that's right over there. Yeah.

Robby McGehee [00:44:21] Yeah. And he has, he's been very successful over there. And you know, I, I think a lot of where his success is coming from, is it that used to call, say it, the Madison Illinois IndyCar race, and nobody showed up. He has made that a St. Louis asset and, and he's pulling from this side of the river to go over there and use that. I, I think you're right. I mean, it's, it, it, it's pretty despair. I mean, it's, you know, I'd never thought of a, of a concept like, like you just said, but I certainly wouldn't argue on that. I mean, I, you know, that's, you know, I, I think, I think we probably need to, you know, I get our own downtown in shape first. I mean, I, you know, you hate to be That's

Vance Crowe [00:45:01] A fair point, that's a fair point from this

Robby McGehee [00:45:03] City where, you know, we're top two on murder, everything, you know, everything. And now we're in the news for, you know, we're always in the news it seems like for, you know, kind of ridiculous sort, you know, sort of reasons. And I, I don't mean anything ridiculous,

Vance Crowe [00:45:17] But I'll tell you that I think that the idea of St. Louis is actually a transcendent idea. And, and so I grew up north in, in Peoria, Illinois, the center of of Illinois, and there's like a dividing line between are you a Cubs fan or are you a Cardinals fan? And nobody was a White Sox fan. I don't think I met a White Sox fan until I was in my thirties.

Robby McGehee [00:45:35] I actually finally met a White Sox fan. I'm like, where do you live, man? Because I've never met anybody that's a White Sox fan.

Vance Crowe [00:45:40] So, but I think that when you come to St. Louis, you start realizing that as far as our broadcast would, would be taken out so people could hear games. You had parents and their children or grandparents and their children listening to this sporting event. And every once in a while they would decide it's worth it to make the journey into the city, to to check out the sports and have dinner and then go back. And what you find out is that that entrance and then exit into the city is like a beating heart. And it's, it's like that explains what is St. Louis. And it's not just St. Louis proper and it's not just the county, it's a larger idea. It's an emerging mega region. And I think it has culture. And so I don't really want it to be the Illinois, Missouri divide or even St. Louis City versus county or any of those things. I want people to think about like, how do we make this area transcend the very thing that you're talking about, that when people hear about it, they only think about the bad things, but they don't realize that this is a place of culture and really interesting people like you.

Robby McGehee [00:46:42] Well, I, I, I think you're exactly right. And I don't know that we actually met that first night, but the first time I heard you speak was at the, the, the charity where the, it gets

Vance Crowe [00:46:51] The launch code event. Yeah, yeah. Spoke

Robby McGehee [00:46:52] To the launch code and you, you gave about a 30 minute speech about St. Louis and its history and what makes it so special. So it's very clear to me that you're very passionate about St. Louis and I, I, I asked Travis, I said, man, who is that guy? That guy? He's what a great speaker and what a great topic. So, so, so I really appreciated that. And now you're sharing this, it's clear that you're very passionate about St. Louis, I'm passionate about St. Louis. I was born and raised here. Half of my friends, you know, live in California, LA Hey man, when are you gonna move out here? It's like, dude, I'm never gonna move there. I love St. Louis, I love St. Louis. 'cause it's right in the middle. I love St. Louis. 'cause I'm rooted here. My business is here. And it's, it is such a great, a great city and great community, you know, surrounding it. And I think if you can translate that into what you were talking about to the, you know, to where, you know, where people are driving from the middle of Illinois to come see the Cardinals and eat dinner and such. I, I, I, I think you could really, you know, accelerate and grow St. Louis and make it as special as it once was because I mean, we, hell, we were, we were the gateway to the West. And it's that, that's, that's a big deal. And, and, and seeing, seeing ourselves in the news for the wrong reasons is, you know, is obviously not, not what we're looking for. So

Vance Crowe [00:48:07] I think the challenge right now, at least as far as I can see, is that people on all sides, and it's not one side versus the other, everybody's frightened. Right? And it's really easy to feel and inhabit your fear and say that the other people's fear is not okay. But if I were to try and find somebody that lives in St. Louis City that I could just talk with, I don't know how I would do that. It's easier for me in the world that I live in to find an indie car racer that is, is doing business all over the world than it is for me to find even people in my own neighborhood. And there's something about technology that is both opened up the world, but it's also divided in a way. And I, that's, that's some, that's a challenge that I wanna figure out with other people how to overcome that.

Robby McGehee [00:48:50] Well, I think it, I mean, I, I just listened to your podcast with, with our mutual friend Eric Schmidt, and you kind of talked about, you know, kind of technology and social media kind of being the dehumanizing aspect of, of, of our communication and, and it, especially when we're stuck in our homes. I mean, and it's, you know, I I I think that, you know, I, I don't know where to take it. It could be a three hour long conversation, but the reality is, I mean, when people get together and look face to face and, you know, and, and you start realizing, like he said that, Hey man, I don't agree with you, but I see you're a great father and a great family man. You know, it's all of a sudden you're, you're past all that crap and, and you just can't, you know, I, I have, I I, I do it myself. I mean, I'm, my, I tell my kids to get off their phone and then I'm sitting there going between Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and it's just like, what the hell am I doing? You know? So, so I I I think that that really, you know, I think there's a lot to be said about that, man, technology's dangerous. I mean, I, I think we all saw a Terminator man sky nuts around the corner.

Vance Crowe [00:49:50] Well, you know, you told me you have a, a piece of equipment around that I'm super interested in. You have the VR headset, and I know you have to go here in just a second, but

Robby McGehee [00:49:58] Sure.

Vance Crowe [00:49:58] I actually am getting a group of people together, whoever has a VR headset and, and meeting on Saturday. So just people, just to figure out like how does this thing work if you have a group of people? Yeah. So you'd be welcome to, to join us if you want, if people wanted to get a hold of you, if they wanted to see what you were like on Twitter or learn more about your business, what's the best way for them to get ahold of you, Robbie?

Robby McGehee [00:50:20] So all of my Twitter, Facebook, everything is Robbie IRL, which stands for Indie Racing League number five. So Robbie, IRL five, put an app sign in front of that and Google it. You'll get every one of my accounts. And forewarning if you, if, if you know, my, my personal stuff is on Facebook and Instagram, Twitter is usually me winning that, or, you know, trying to win the never ending argument on politics. Yeah. I'm gonna change your mind about politics, said nobody on Twitter. Yeah, right. So, you know, so, so Twitter, i, I, I'm more just kind of lurking and, and every now and then I'll retweet something, but I, you know, my, I got the pictures of my, you know, my kids, my daily life on the other stuff. And, you know, I try to keep the politics stuff outta that. But yeah, I mean, we're, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty active on all of it, and most, I think all of my accounts don't require, you know, they're public. So

Vance Crowe [00:51:18] Hopefully, well, Robbie McGee, there is going to come a day when you can sit across the table from me and we can do an in-person thing, but you are now my people. I, I really enjoyed this conversation, man.

Robby McGehee [00:51:28] Well, I, I really enjoyed it as well. I appreciate you having me on, and hope to see you soon, man.

Vance Crowe [00:51:33] Amen.