Living with Williams Syndrome: Heightened Senses, Trusting Everyone, and Feeling Others' Emotions

Rachel Nau [00:00:00] There's joy. It was joy. It was just astounding feeling of, I'm looking at my own self, like how is this even possible? How you know? Like I'm Jeremy Ash, a retirement community CEO living in Eureka, Illinois, and you are listening to the Vance Crow podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:30] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today is a special interview. It's with a young woman that I have known since she was born. Her name is Rachel now, and she is the little sister of my oldest friend Jake now, and she has a very rare condition called Williams Syndrome. Rachel reached out to me a few weeks ago and said, Hey, I know you have this podcast and you have a group of people out in the audience that I think would benefit from learning about this rare syndrome that I have. And so we arranged a time and set it up and my whole time coming into this interview, I've been a little bit tense about this because while I've talked to people that are heads of state and Olympic level athletes and people that are making scientific discoveries, it's a whole nother thing to have a discussion with somebody that you've grown up with and to actually inhabit the way that they view the world, to be able to see what caused them pain when they were growing up, what things did they have to overcome and what makes them unique because of this syndrome that they have. So this is a conversation that will be at a totally different pace than some of my other interviews and yet it's insight and the way that it will make you feel as you listen to it I think is one of those rare occurrences and I'm really glad to be able to share this with you on the podcast. Before we get to that, I want to mention something that the Articulate Ventures group that I run is doing.

Vance Crowe [00:02:05] I have come to understand that there are a lot of people out there that would love to have a private interview of their grandparents telling them about the values and where they got them or of a young child, maybe six years old, talking about how he views the world and what he wants to be when he grows up. So I've decided to offer this as a service between now and Christmas time for people that would like to have some loved one or even yourself interviewed to explore who you are, what you think about, what you know about, and we'll keep those interviews private. We'll load them up on a private drive and you'll be able to download them for Christmas or other holidays and give them to people. So if you're interested in having me do a private interview with, you know that I only have a few open slots. I think we were figuring about 12 between now and Christmas time. And so if you're interested in doing that, I hope you will visit store dot Articulate Ventures where you can book one of the 12 slots that we have between now and Christmas for a private interview for you, maybe a child, maybe a grandparent, but somebody that you wanna capture their thoughts and ideas and ways of thinking and their voice and how they look when they're talking over this visual medium that we do here on the podcast. So if you're interested in that visit store Articulate Ventures and otherwise enjoy the show with my friend Rachel. Now Rachel now welcome to the podcast.

Rachel Nau [00:03:36] Thank you Vance for having me. It's a blessing and honor to be on new podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:03:42] You know, very rarely do I get emails from people that I'm so excited that they wanted to share their story because oftentimes when people write me an email, it's because they want me to help them sell something or they want me to help them get an idea out that's theirs. But you reached out to me a few weeks ago and said, Vance, I have a special way that my brain works and I wanna talk with people about it. And I was wondering if your podcast might be a good spot for that. And I was delighted to hear about this, but I think it's a little rare and a little unusual. So I wanted to give you a chance to talk about what you reached out to me about and what you, you wanted to share with people that they probably don't know very much about.

Rachel Nau [00:04:28] So what I have is Williams syndrome. So that is one out of every 20 to 30,000 people that have it. And it is extremely rare, not very well known worldwide even it's not very well known. So wind syndrome has to do with the chromosome number seven and it was deleted. So that means it wasn't even there when I was formed. It just wasn't there. And so that's where the genetic of that comes zone came in. And so I, you know, there's, with my history of my childhood, there was many pieces that I couldn't quite fit together. Like I would wake my parents up in the middle of the night saying that there was a storm coming and the sky wouldn't be dark or anything and my parents would send me back to bed and 30 minutes later there was a storm.

Vance Crowe [00:06:08] I didn't know this, I

Rachel Nau [00:06:09] Could hear it.

Vance Crowe [00:06:11] Wow.

Rachel Nau [00:06:13] I could hear it coming and I was frightened outta my wits and I could hear it just thundering away like crazy.

Vance Crowe [00:06:23] So that's very interesting because when you describe that a chromosome has been deleted, I have no idea what that means, but I do know that you have a heightened sense of sound and noise and pressure and your experience of that is that you can hear things more clearly.

Rachel Nau [00:06:44] Oh yes. Yep. I can hear things like if someone was to even whisper something and they like if I'm not even passing them, but I'm in a totally different area than they are, my ears are hypersensitive enough that I can hear them.

Vance Crowe [00:07:09] So what is it like to have, you know, hyper, hyper ability to be able to hear

Rachel Nau [00:07:18] There's good with it and there's bad with it too. Like if the thunderstorms come, I don't sleep well if there's fireworks going off, I don't sleep well if, you know, if there's loud noises my ears just hurts and they tend to hit the roof some. So, but the good is I am get to hear music, I get to hear the beauty of what God has brought into my life. And you know, I definitely say it's a blessing but it's also very difficult at times too.

Vance Crowe [00:08:08] So you and I have known each other for your entire life. Our two families grew up together and I remember that you were always one of the most outgoing people that I had ever met. Like you have this sense of wonder and excitement to meet other people. Is that a part of William Syndrome or is that just a part of who you are?

Rachel Nau [00:08:33] That's a part of bullying syndrome. What they identify medically is called over friendliness. So they identify the factor of you just wanting to be friends with everyone, just wanting love all people. And that's part of the William syndrome factor is the overly friendliness and that it has its good parts but it has its unknown parts. Meaning that I don't always like for strangers and not knowing if there's some unsafe or not safe and not, go ahead, sorry. Well

Vance Crowe [00:09:33] I was going to say because many of our interactions happened in high school, which you know, there's one thing to say when you're a small child and you might trust an adult stranger that you shouldn't trust. But when you're around children it's, or other young people having trust when you should be more, you know, kind of cautious. You don't really know if the kids are embracing you or or making fun of you. How was the experience of being a high school kid with so much outgoingness and wanting to be so friendly in an environment where kids aren't always nice to each other?

Rachel Nau [00:10:10] It was very tough for me. There was a lot of people that did not understand or were not caring about me. So there was a lot of different issues that I faced with high school. But like the first year my brother Jake was there, he was a senior in high school, all his friends, he told them about me and they all took me under their wing. Basically if something happened to me, if I was in trouble with someone or being made fun of or whatever, they would step up no matter who it was, they would step up and defend me and help me get through that situation. And that was always something that even from Matt when he was younger, he used to walk me home from school and I don't know directions. So if you were to tell me to go a certain direction to get to this certain place, I wouldn't know because that's just part of the ster.

Rachel Nau [00:11:45] Even getting out of the car in a parking lot, going into a store and then trying to come out and find the car, my mom can go one way, I can go another way thinking that it's the total opposite direction and she has to usually turn me around to get me to where the direction of the car is actually at.

Vance Crowe [00:12:11] It's so interesting that you say this, Rachel. I had a guy on the podcast about a year ago who was got into a fight and he hit his head on the ground during the altercation and he lost his ability to have a sense of direction and he talked in great detail about how we all take for granted that we know where we are at in the world and that when you don't know where you're at or when you can't follow directions, then you're constantly in a state of being lost or constantly in a state of needing other people to support you through the world. What has that been like for you? Is that your experience?

Rachel Nau [00:12:53] Yes, it has been, you know, going through the high school times, I had a lot of different experiences but I was very blessed and so blessed to have a couple of really good friends that have really helped me through some really tough, tough times. And Jody Dennis is one of 'em actually called, there's several of 'em that were kind of there throughout my high school years, but Jody and I and Ashley Gaul and I have really pretty much kept in contact as well as a couple other people too. So it was really good to have that support system when I needed that to happen. I, go ahead.

Vance Crowe [00:13:58] Well I, I was going to ask, you know, you had said in the beginning that Williams syndrome is very rare. I remember a few years ago when you met the first person that that, that I could recall that also had Williams syndrome. So what was it like for you to meet a person that experiences the world in much the same way that you do?

Rachel Nau [00:14:20] It's interesting you asked me this question because today is eight years since I've met her. Her name's Kimmy and she, we were at a Kohl's and out shopping, my mom and I were, and I watched this young woman go around the Julie counter just like I do and if you know me, I kind of like the sparkly things. And so she was doing the exact same thing I was I was doing, but I took one look at her and my jaw literally hit the floor.

Vance Crowe [00:15:12] You knew just by looking at her.

Rachel Nau [00:15:15] Oh yes. Vance, if you get online and literally like look at people that have ly syndrome. Identical. Identical,

Vance Crowe [00:15:28] Fascinating. And so what was it like to see someone that was like you for the first time?

Rachel Nau [00:15:35] It was amazing and I, I was like, oh my goodness. I was like, this is crazy. And so I couldn't approach her not knowing if she knew because sometimes like I didn't know for a very long time. And so I didn't know if she knew. Sometimes people are born with ones, they're born with one syndrome, but they don't really know that. But so I went to go find my mom and I told my mom, mom, there's someone in this store identical to me. She has one syndrome, I know she does. And my mom said, well where was she with anyone? I said, I didn't see anyone with her. And so I went looking for her, couldn't find her anywhere.

Vance Crowe [00:16:42] Oh my gosh. This had to be so much tension.

Rachel Nau [00:16:44] Yes, Yes it was. It was. And I was, I probably went around that store three or four times and then my phone went off and my mom was calling and answered the phone and I was really sad and upset 'cause I couldn't find her. And my mom said, wait, where you at? And I told her where I was and she says, turn the corner. And I turned the corner. There was my mom with Kimmy and her mom Kimmy and I took one look at each other. We both started to cry, we hugged right away and it was amazing. And

Vance Crowe [00:17:30] Tell us about that feeling because Rachel, the experience that you had there is one that is universal in the sense that we all feel alone in some way, but totally unique in the fact that most of us aren't searching for one in 20 or one in 30,000 people all around the world. So when you say you're hugging and you're crying what's going on inside of you?

Rachel Nau [00:17:54] There's joy. It was joy, it was just astounding feeling of, I'm looking at my own self, like how is this even possible? How, you know, like there was a million questions going through my head as we were both, you know, hugging and crying and I, so it was just a beautiful experience for me just to know like there's someone out there that has it and that I could relate to on a different level.

Vance Crowe [00:18:44] So after you guys have the initial, you know, shakeup of, of finding someone like you, what are the first conversations that you had with somebody that could have the same subjective experience? I mean this supersedes your parents, your siblings, your friends.

Rachel Nau [00:19:01] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:19:01] So what did you guys talk about when you first got together

Rachel Nau [00:19:06] Got, well we food fans, it was food.

Vance Crowe [00:19:13] Tell me more.

Rachel Nau [00:19:16] Kimmy and I, so we would, after the first initial meeting, we set up more times of course the get together. When we did that, we would meet at a restaurant and it was kind of a family restaurant and she would ask me, what are you gonna order for lunch? And I would look at her and I would say, well I'm gonna order Belgium waffle and I'm gonna order cheese curds and a hot chocolate. And she'd look at me, she, she would say, yes, that's exactly what I'm going to eat too. We eat the same food. We literally knew.

Vance Crowe [00:20:03] And do you think that's as a function of you both being very similar or do you think most people with William Syndrome would've ordered that same food?

Rachel Nau [00:20:14] I think most because it was rarity for me to have someone that would order the same thing. And even after we got together, it was the same thing

Vance Crowe [00:20:28] That

Rachel Nau [00:20:28] Even after that.

Vance Crowe [00:20:31] And so now it's been eight years with a friend that you have that kind of shares the experience. Do you feel like you've learned more about William's syndrome because you're able to say, is this just something about who I am or is this something as a part of of the, the makeup of our genetics because you have another person to talk with.

Rachel Nau [00:20:52] Oh yes. Kimmy has taught me a lot. One of the things Kimmy taught me about was I have always been attracted to sparkly things. Don't, didn't, you know, didn't understand why. I had some people that would come to me and say like, you know, you're a Christian but yet you choose to wear all this sparkly stuff and we know you got more and why do you do this? You know, like just really hardcore, just

Vance Crowe [00:21:34] Judgment, right? Judgment for something that you are attracted to.

Rachel Nau [00:21:39] And I couldn't give them an answer at that point in time because I didn't have one. And so then when I met Kimmy, she said that part of our makeup is being drawn to sparkly things. That's part of us as Williams syndrome people.

Vance Crowe [00:22:03] Well it's interesting if people are just listening to this, they wouldn't know that you're wearing a sparkly necklace, your earrings are sparkly and there even seems to be sparkles inside of your sweater. I don't know if that's the thread or what that is, but you do sparkle And is, is it because it's something that attracts your eye? How do you, how do you think that that generally works?

Rachel Nau [00:22:25] I, I think I'm upside down.

Vance Crowe [00:22:27] You flipped upside down. We'll have to flip that thing around again. There we go.

Rachel Nau [00:22:38] So I'm sorry, repeat the question.

Vance Crowe [00:22:42] So what is it about sparkly things that the two of you like? Is that what everyone with Williams syndrome has a love of sparkly things?

Rachel Nau [00:22:51] I think so Vince, it's part of who we are.

Vance Crowe [00:22:56] So tell me about the work that, do you wanna tilt your camera down a little bit so we can see you better? It's okay if we need to take a pause to, to fix it, but that looks a lot better. So Rachel, what do you do for, for work? How do you spend your days

Rachel Nau [00:23:16] Before the virus came out? I was working at a thrift store Ventures unlimited thrift store where I've been working for 10 years.

Vance Crowe [00:23:32] 10 years. That is a long time to be working at a at a place. What did you do at the thrift store?

Rachel Nau [00:23:38] I ran the cash register, I helped with the customers. I organized different areas, vacuumed, cleaned, I did lots and lots of, you know, learning there too as far as my abilities.

Vance Crowe [00:24:04] And when you learn a new task, like learning the cash register, what is the process like for you?

Rachel Nau [00:24:12] It can be a little bit hard for me. I am not someone that, like if you were to give me like this is one part of the cash register, this is the other part of the cash register. Like there's three different increments to something. I have to, for my own means, be able to learn one part first and then go on to the other part. Because otherwise it gets, like if my mom tells me to go do three different things at once, I'm like, oh, because I, you know, 'cause my brain can't handle that. My, I can only do one thing at a time. So the learning process with the store was one thing at a time, but then I eventually built up to where I could do more than one thing at a time and help out more on a deeper level

Vance Crowe [00:25:17] When you watch other people that can pick up on something. So if you were standing next to a person that was learning the cash register and they could learn three things at a time, how does, how does that feel for you? Because I think that one of the things that is difficult for people to understand is things that come easy for one person but don't come easy for another. It's hard to understand the person that it doesn't come easy for. But the reverse is also true. So what is it like for you to see somebody else adapt so quickly whereas it's takes a longer time for you?

Rachel Nau [00:25:54] Well it is hard, but at the same time for me, I can watch someone just get it like that and they understand and they know what to do and they're right on top of it. But it's hard in my perspective because I have to have time to process, process what they're saying, process what they're asking, process, how to deal with that particular thing that they want me to do. But if someone just gets it like that, then I just kind of have to acknowledge that okay, they're getting it, but it doesn't necessarily matter 'cause I will eventually understand it myself. Like it's one thing I don't do is drive. I have not been able to drive. I tried in high school but it didn't work out. But like that for me is hard because then I have to fully rely on my parents or a driver or a friend, someone to help with transportation.

Rachel Nau [00:27:29] So that's difference.

Vance Crowe [00:27:32] Yeah, I mean I think people like me take for granted that we can drive because it means I can at any time decide I'm gonna go 30, 40, 50 miles away and I, I could just make it happen. But for you, you would have to have a lot of foresight. You would have to get someone else to agree with you. That would be a big challenge.

Rachel Nau [00:27:52] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:27:54] So talk about the, the way that you developed friendships, because one of the things that I remember about you as a child is that because you were so loving and because you were so interested and excited about other people, it made it so you were kind of always excited and open to meeting people, but that they were going at a different pace than you. So what has it been like to live in a world where you're trying to build friendships with people that are moving along in the world much faster than, than the pace that, that you're more comfortable at?

Rachel Nau [00:28:32] Well I think I have learned that the pace doesn't matter so much as what does matter is that person's willingness to befriend or to welcome me, to accept me. I think that's the most important part to it for me because there has been people in and out of my life just as well as I'm sure for you, you've had people in and out of your life where, you know, the friendships change, things go different directions, they're not the same anymore. But what I have learned is that each person God puts into your life for one reason or another. So if they're there to help you through something or you're there to help them through something or you're just, you know, trying to do the best that you can with who you are as a person and try to give that to that person,

Vance Crowe [00:30:02] That makes a ton of sense. And I think seems very reasonable. Like in a way that most people, that friendships are easy and they can keep up at the same pace, don't necessarily appreciate I, I know for me, I listen to the way that you have patience and I think I wish I was as comfortable with myself as Rachel appears to be because it seems like you are much more accepting of what is you, you almost sound like a, like a Buddhist, but I know that you're actually a Christian and why don't, would you mind sharing with us like your belief in God, where, where does this come from and and how has this helped you navigate the world?

Rachel Nau [00:30:47] So my belief from God is, first of all, I was raised in a Christian home. My parents both, they're Christian. So my parents really taught me a lot when I was younger and even up until now about God and how God wants to touch our hearts and touch our lives and help us get through different things that we may end up going through. When I was a freshman in high school, I, the relationship with God really started then. So I, I had CYMI had all these different youth groups going on, but I didn't really like, even though I was raised in the Christian home, I didn't really have that deep connection and I knew he was there with me, but I just didn't understand my connection with him at that point. But then going through the testing, which I had to go through for the Williamson at that point in time of freshman year and actually had to get a heart scan done too, which was really scary for me as a person, a young person going through that.

Rachel Nau [00:32:52] 'cause I didn't know if there was something wrong with me. I knew nothing at that point. And so I was praying a lot during that time that everything would be fine, whatever this was that I didn't know of would be okay. And so when I went through the test, got that all done, then I eventually started that building of relationship with God. One thing I have learned that is something very important with the relationship is to always put him first and to make the time to do that in the morning, right when I get up from getting going, you know, just have that time with him and to know that he's got me and I have to continually put my trust in him no matter what is going on. That's how the relationship that I have with him, there's, I'm sure just like you have had tough times, I've had tough times.

Rachel Nau [00:34:28] But just to know that he can help through those tough times and that he can strengthen me when I feel weak, when I feel alone, when I feel vulnerable, when I feel upset, when I feel sad, he's, when I'm going through something he's always there. And

Vance Crowe [00:35:05] Go ahead. So this is, well this is a little bit of a personal question, but it's one I've been asking a lot of people recently, which is when you hear the voice of God, whether that's through prayer or the voice in the back of your head, what is that experience like? Is it something that's obvious, you're like, oh, that's, that's what God is trying to tell me? Or is it like, I think this is what God is trying to tell me, but I can't, I need to listen harder? How, how does this work for you?

Rachel Nau [00:35:33] It's interesting that you bring that up to me because this is something that a lot of people don't know, but a lot of the time my, like when I go to sleep at night, sometimes I have spiritual dreams so I can see different things happening that relate to God. I've had so like a lot of different dreams that have been spiritual, very intense dreams too. So the it, it's amazing. It is truly amazing when that, when God just reveals himself through those dreams and I get up in the morning and I'll write it all down. These jeans are not just one page, they're like 10 to 12 pages sometimes.

Vance Crowe [00:36:47] Oh wow. That is fantastic.

Rachel Nau [00:36:51] And it takes me like two hours to write it down and I don't come outta my room until it's done and then bring it to my parents and show them.

Vance Crowe [00:37:02] Wow. And would you say those dreams have helped you figure things out or revealed things to you that you didn't know?

Rachel Nau [00:37:12] I think they have, yeah. I think it's God's way of not only reminding me that he's there, but that he has a purpose for whatever the situations may be. He has a purpose, but that he's gonna use me for his purpose or the ministry that he wants me to do.

Vance Crowe [00:37:41] This is fascinating because you use words differently than the way that I would, right? It's not natural for me to say God has a purpose for me or that there is a ministry, but the exact idea that you are talking about when I hear a dream or when I have that voice in the back of my head, it, it is, I have learned over time that if I ignore it, it's not going to go away. It's only going to get louder. And so I can't like it, it's almost as though you have a mission that you have to go on and whether you wanna go on it or not, you're gonna keep getting poked until you do the right thing.

Rachel Nau [00:38:17] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:38:20] Oh it, it warms my heart to have such a, to have such a clear conversation with another person about this. Because in fact Rachel, I would say out of all the people I've spoken with around the world, you have the best handle on explaining the way the voice of God comes to you. I think that's something very admirable.

Rachel Nau [00:38:41] Thank you Vance.

Vance Crowe [00:38:43] So when people engage with you, I know that for when I was in high school, I had no idea that you had Williams syndrome. I thought you were very nice, I thought you were, you know, just Jake's little sister that I always knew. But then when you put a label on somebody and you say they have Williams syndrome, does that, is that something that you think it's really important that people know that I have Williams syndrome so that way they know what's peculiar about me or what's kind of makes me unique? Or is it I wish that people didn't need to know that because I'd rather them deal without without them, without the facade of of a name or, or some kind of syndrome.

Rachel Nau [00:39:26] It's a to excited question, two-sided answer. Okay. So even if people did not know that it had Williams's syndrome, there was some that knew I did not feel fit societies normal. Okay. So I didn't fit up to what society's standards were as far as normal. So they didn't see me as a human being. Basically they treated me horrific. So I from point

Vance Crowe [00:40:15] In what way can I of view, can I ask what you mean? When you said people treated you horribly, what? How

Rachel Nau [00:40:22] Made fun of me called me names Just did It was bad. It was very bad.

Vance Crowe [00:40:31] Isolated you? Yeah.

Rachel Nau [00:40:32] Very, very, very bad. Yeah, there was times where I knew of different parties that were going on different things that were happening. Other people would tell me different things and I'd be like, oh you did that this weekend And it was like I wasn't invited, I wasn't, you know, welcomed, I wasn't included. And so that aspect of it is very difficult. But the other aspect is because it is so rare, even though the label, as you say is put on it, the fact of it being so rare is why I came to you through Facebook to connect with you to tell you that I have this and that I wanted to speak to you about it because it, there's not a whole lot of people that know about it. You know more about autism, you know more about downs, you know more about all these different special needs, but you don't know a whole lot about wound syndrome. And so I think that having that aspect of the rarity is means more to me than the label of who I am, you know, as far as the label of William Syndrome.

Vance Crowe [00:42:28] So as you think about what makes someone with William Syndrome special, you think about your relationship with Kimmy, you've already talked about I can hear things that other people can't hear. I like sparkly things, I'm really friendly and almost to the point of trusting people I shouldn't. What are some of the other aspects that we haven't talked about, about Williams syndrome that you think makes you unique from, from maybe ordinary people or normies?

Rachel Nau [00:42:58] I am extremely sensitive to the point where I can feel someone's emotion without them having to say a word or read their body language.

Vance Crowe [00:43:12] Really? Tell me more about that.

Rachel Nau [00:43:16] So I can sense like if I'm at work and I can sense my boss's stress, I can literally feel it. Okay. So I don't even have to say word to her, she doesn't have to say word to me. It's not necessarily even actions that she's showing or words that she's saying. It's just I can feel it in my heart and I know that she is stressed or that she is dealing with something that she's upset about. I can feel people's pain.

Vance Crowe [00:43:59] Rachel, I don't think I've ever had a guest on that I feel as connected to as I do with you. You are describing something deep about me as well. Like I can walk into a room and I can feel other people's emotions and I tend to push people to try and be happy because if they're happy then I can feel the happiness. Do you sense that same thing in you where you sense stress and you think I just gotta do something to make it so it's not so stressed because I don't want to feel this way?

Rachel Nau [00:44:37] Yes, but at the same time I know that the person has to deal with

Vance Crowe [00:44:44] What they have to deal with. You're much more accepting of other people.

Rachel Nau [00:44:51] In other words, I don't want to say, oh you're stressed and then get them more upset because, you know, but I, you know, I went through some, like within last I would say year or so at work, there was a lot of intense times. So I feeling someone's emotions and then not like I would try my hardest for this particular person who is a boss and I never could make her happy. Not one thing that I did. And so it was a really tough situation and I was really just coming home every time just miserable and drained. So sometimes I think it is okay for people to acknowledge that the person is stressed, but how do you help that person if the person doesn't want the help?

Vance Crowe [00:46:29] I mean that's probably the hardest lesson that I've yet to learn, right? It's, it's, i I get into a situation and I think, oh, I just wanna change this. And it's probably not for the better. It's almost selfish in, in the way that I, I want to change it, but I completely understand where you're coming from. If every day you're coming home from work and you feel like the person you're expected to please, nothing you can do is right. That's a, a another isolating sensation that nobody wants.

Rachel Nau [00:46:56] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:46:58] Well Rachel, as we wrap up, what are the things about William syndrome? If somebody met someone that they thought had William syndrome or somebody or they even told them what is something you should keep in mind when you're talking with someone with William syndrome?

Rachel Nau [00:47:16] You should keep in mind that they are human beings first and foremost. They do, yes, they have limb syndrome or even if, if it's someone with a different special need that does not define by any way, shape or form who they are. It is a part of them but does not totally define who they are. So they need to be treated with love, respect. They need to be treated with welcome arms. They need to be accepted just as well as someone else with special needs or any other human being. They need to be loved. And I think that's a very important part of it is that people need to understand that people who have special needs, they are normal 'cause God created them that way.

Vance Crowe [00:48:27] Well Rachel, I am so grateful that you reached out and, and offered to do this. It's something I would never have thought to do on my own. So I'm glad you were so brave to be like, Hey, I wanna do this. And, and I really think you, the things that you're talking about that highlight parts of who you are with Williams syndrome are actually things about human beings that we would love to cultivate in ourselves. We just don't like, I, I think for example, your love of sparkly things, I mean my wife Annie loves sparkly things, but she struggles to embrace it, right? But you don't, you say, Hey, this is who I am. I love sparkly things and so I'm gonna put sparkly things all around me. And I think that's something we can all learn from to, to embrace who, who it is that we are.

Rachel Nau [00:49:15] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:49:17] Well thanks so much for having, for coming on Rachel, and maybe we'll do this again sometime.

Rachel Nau [00:49:22] I would really love to, there's so much more information that I would love to share with you. More medical stuff. I mean there's lots of medical stuff with it and lots more information, so.

Vance Crowe [00:49:40] Well great. Thank you so much Rachel, and we'll be in touch.