Mike Sansone Apartment Developer on the changing tastes of housing, business and grit

About this episode

Mike Sansone, a young multifamily real estate developer operating in St. Louis and Nashville, joins Vance to discuss the mechanics of deal-making, the psychology of community opposition, and the long game of building trust as an outsider entering new markets. Sansone frames COVID-era risk through the "Stockdale Paradox" — believing you'll prevail without knowing when or how — and argues fears about rent non-payment were overblown compared to real damage on the capital/lending side. A large section covers how fragmented municipal government (St. Louis's ~90 jurisdictions) versus Nashville's single metro government structure shapes development speed and tribal local opposition to new projects. Sansone credits his immigrant grandfather's grit as his central motivating legacy, describes an "abundance mentality" toward deal flow, and predicts remote work and video-conferencing will permanently reshape apartment design (soundproofed work nooks, coworking amenities). The conversation closes on journaling, handwritten letters as underrated relationship-building tools, and hedged predictions about police defunding.

“You take a business that's local in nature and you almost make it tribal... you could spend a couple years attempting to rezone the property... to potentially have a group of citizens rise up against you.”

“Certain people's minds are completely made up... it doesn't matter if you're able to rationally prove to them that that can happen. If their argument before you sat down in that room was, you're gonna devalue my home, oftentimes they take that position no matter what.”

“It's, it's definitely an interesting time for us... there's so much fear from a lender's perspective or an investor's perspective. And that creates a lack of opportunity for people like me to do new projects.”

Key moments

• Sansone distinguishes rent collection (fine) from capital markets fear (real problem) in explaining COVID's actual impact on his business (money).
• Sansone explains Nashville's single unified government structure versus St. Louis's ~90 fragmented municipalities as a key reason development moves faster there (institutions).
• middle ~35-38%: Extended discussion of how local development fights become "tribal" — some residents' minds are fixed regardless of rational argument, and developers must be prepared for lawsuits and organized resistance (mob).
• Sansone describes constantly having to "reconvince" strangers he's "not evil" as an outside developer entering unfamiliar communities (trust).
• Sansone credits his grandfather, an immigrant with no money or English, as his primary motivational legacy and benchmark for grit (legacy).
• Vance and Sansone discuss "abundance mentality" vs. scarcity mindset in deal-making, and the discipline needed to keep pushing even when things are going well.
• Sansone predicts apartment design will need soundproofed nooks for video calls as remote work becomes permanent for a subset of industries (windows).
• Vance's story about handwriting notes/letters ("the ink is the equivalent of my soul") vs. email, echoed by Sansone's appreciation for physical letters in professional relationship-building.

Notable quotes

“If their argument before you sat down in that room was, you're gonna devalue my home, oftentimes they take that position no matter what.”

“They don't know me. And so I have to kind of reconvince folks oftentimes... that I'm not evil.”

“I won the genetic lottery. He did not... that would be a disappointment to him and his legacy.”

“We also have to have maybe a little nook in their individual apartment unit that has good sound quality and soundproofing.”

Predictions made in this episode

• A meaningful subset of industries will remain permanently remote-first, and this will drive demand for apartment features like soundproofed workspaces/nooks and stronger coworking amenities.
• Organizational communication will become flatter and more direct (less hierarchical "waterfall" cascades), a trend already underway before COVID but accelerated by it.