May Never Eat Red Meat Again because of a Tick Bite! Two women living with Alpha Gal Syndrome

About this episode

Vance interviews Debbie Nichols and Candace Mathis, co-founders of "Two Alpha Gals," about living with Alpha-Gal Syndrome -- a red-meat and mammal-byproduct allergy triggered by lone star tick bites. Both women describe years-long diagnostic odysseys (unexplained GI pain, joint pain, brain fog, a removed gallbladder that didn't help) before being properly tested, and the ongoing struggle to be believed by doctors and even ER staff mid-reaction. They detail how deeply hidden mammal derivatives are -- in wine and beer (gelatin/blood clarifying agents), refined white sugar (bone char processing), lotions, and even some "vegan" products via carrageenan and agar. Vance opens by referencing a Davos-style speaker who suggested deliberately spreading Alpha-Gal to reduce meat consumption/fight climate change, which the guests call "infuriating," describing the disease's real severity (anaphylaxis, mast cell activation, cardiac effects) rather than a convenient dietary hack. They discuss the science (a carbohydrate/galactose immune response, not a protein allergy), unpredictability ("any-time syndrome" rather than "every-time syndrome"), overlap with Lyme disease misdiagnosis, and a side tangent on exploding deer populations (more deer in the US now than in Columbus's time) as tick vectors. The conversation closes on the mental-health toll -- mourning lost foods and rituals, EMDR therapy for reaction-related PTSD, and their business plan to fund research, build community, and reframe the diagnosis around joy rather than deprivation.

“They didn't believe me that I was having a reaction to something I hadn't known that I had consumed... They didn't believe me, but I do have this test. So I felt like I could say, yes, I do. And so when they took my vital signs, they're like, oh yeah, you're having a full anaphylactic reaction.”

“We would love to see labeling, but that's not gonna happen until we continue to increase awareness... we also need to increase funding for research for Alpha-Gal... the legislative isn't going to happen until there's a certain number that they see as critical to do something different.”

“This hit my radar screen when there was a guy that stood on some fancy stage, looked like something like Davos, and he was talking about this Alpha Gal Syndrome, and he suggested that everyone maybe should get it, and that way we could eliminate animal agriculture.”

Key moments

• ~5%: Framing hook -- Vance cites a Davos-style figure suggesting the syndrome could be spread deliberately to curb meat-eating, setting up the guests' pushback.
• ~19%: BUBBLES — the "girl boss"/elite-conference framing of a serious disease as a lifestyle tool, contrasted with lived severity.
• ~30%: Diagnostic-odyssey stories — years of GI/joint/cognitive symptoms dismissed by multiple specialists before a correct blood test.
• ~40%: Hidden-ingredient reveals -- wine/beer clarifying agents, bone-char-refined sugar, "mind-blowing" for both guests and Vance.
• ~46%: CRAFT — building "Two Alpha Gals" as a content/resource business (dining guides, recipes) reframing the diagnosis around joy.
• ~54%: TRUST peak — cruise-ship medical staff dismissing a woman's self-reported anaphylactic reaction until vitals confirmed it.
• ~62%: Deer-population/tick-vector tangent -- more deer in the US now than in 1492, floated as a partial solution (more hunting).
• ~68%: INSTITUTIONS — calls for FDA-style ingredient labeling and research funding, blocked by insufficient case-count thresholds.
• ~90%: Mental-health arc -- EMDR therapy for reaction-related trauma, mourning lost foods/rituals as part of the diagnosis.

Notable quotes

“They didn't believe me... but I do have this test. So I felt like I could say, yes, I do. And when they took my vital signs, they're like, oh yeah, you're having a full anaphylactic reaction.”

“Refined white sugar is actually refined using cattle bone char. Did your mind just blow?”

“He suggested that everyone maybe should get it, and that way we could eliminate animal agriculture.”