Lobbying 101: How Washington Really Works | Duane Simpson on the Vance Crowe Podcast

Duane Simpson [00:00:00] Everybody that listens to your show is represented by a lobbyist, whether they realize it or not, they, they, it's, it probably several of them, you know, if they're gun owners, there are several organizations that, that support the Second Amendment. If they, if they're opposed to guns. There are several organizations that don't, lobbyists even have a lobbying organization for lobbyists whose job is, is to go out and make sure that the rules are fair because no lobbyist wants to walk in the door and say, Hey, don't, don't restrict it. Right.

Vance Crowe [00:00:27] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. We have a former Monsanto lobbyist, Dwayne Simpson on the podcast. While Dwayne no longer works for Monsanto or Bayer, he actually works for a cooperative. He is a fascinating guy, and I think so often in the news and movies, we see a caricature of lobbyists, but we never actually meet him. And what you're in for is a open book about how DC works, about how lobbyists interact and what their role is. And I'm pretty proud to share this. I think it is an unusual look at something people feel like they know a lot about, but have never actually met a guy like Dwayne. We're gonna get to that in just a moment, but you're probably aware that I have written a book if you're a long time listener of the podcast. And it's on communications and negotiations for highly logical people. I'm gonna talk a little more about this book later in the podcast, but if you are interested in learning more about negotiations, storytelling, conflict resolution, presenting, then you can sign up to get excerpts of the book as we are editing it. And you can do it by going to Articulate Ventures slash book. Alright, let's head to the interview with Dwayne Simpson. Dwayne Simpson, welcome to the podcast.

Duane Simpson [00:01:44] Well, Vance is great to be here. It's great to see you again.

Vance Crowe [00:01:47] Yeah. So we know each other because we worked at Monsanto, and I think that one of the first ways for us to introduce you is that you are one of these dreaded feared lobbyists and you were working in large scale corporate America. Now you're working with cooperatives, but when somebody approaches you and they have a negative feeling about lobbyists, what do you say?

Duane Simpson [00:02:11] Well, I mean, lobbyists are the people you hire to protect you from the people you elect. That's, that's pretty much

Vance Crowe [00:02:17] What we do.

Duane Simpson [00:02:19] You know, I used to work in Monsanto, I was lobbyist for a while. I, I led their, their lobbying team. And at the time we were voted the most evil company in, in the world. We didn't walk around in black suits and ties. And I didn't have any horns in the top of my head or anything like that. You know, we, we were, most of the work that we did was done to help make sure that farmers had access to the tools that we were trying to provide 'em. So helping, helping other people get their voice in politics.

Vance Crowe [00:02:49] So, you know, people, I I don't think there's very many people that grow up being like, I wanna be a lobbyist, but

Duane Simpson [00:02:55] Tell me neither.

Vance Crowe [00:02:56] Yeah. So, yeah, so, so like, how does one get into this world? How does, how do you find yourself in the position where not only do you become a lobbyist, you become a lobbyist for this, you know, most hated company?

Duane Simpson [00:03:08] You know, it, it, it's a long story. I, I, I went to school in western Kansas and worked for a state senator running for Congress, but I didn't go to Washington when he did. I instead went to Topeka and I spent about eight years working in public policy, working in the Kansas legislature. And, and at some point you start thinking about your future. I got married and we were buying a house and expecting other people to win elections, to keep paying your mortgage is not a good plan. And I started looking around and went to work for a trade association. And you know, when you're at a trade association, you are lobbying on behalf of a large group of members who have a similar interest. One of those members was Monsanto, and they hired me away about four years into that. And so that's how I, I got to become a, a state lobbyist for Monsanto. And I spent 17 years with Monsanto and Bayer doing state federal PO policy lobbying, eventually had Canada, the us, Australia, New Zealand. And, you know, it just kinda one thing led to another. I di I certainly never planned to be a lobbyist. It just was something that, that came from the experiences that I'd had and had skills and, and knowledge and relationships that, that were valuable for, for others. And, and it, it continued to build one from one skill set on top of another.

Vance Crowe [00:04:31] So how is, I think most people when they think of lobbying, they think like, okay, I'm gonna take politicians to dinner and I'm going to update my constituents about what, what's going on in Congress. But how is lobbying different than what the general public thinks of it?

Duane Simpson [00:04:49] Well, first and foremost, most of the things that the public thinks about have been illegal for a very long time. You know, I can't just go call up a, a state senator or a US senator and take 'em out to dinner and drinks and, and whine 'em and dine 'em and, and, and slip 'em a piece of legislation. So, you know, I, I'm sure there were were days that people thought were the good old days where that maybe did happen. But, but that's not how it works today. Today a lobbyist spends a good portion of their time, whether if you're a federal lobbyist, just getting to know the people that are responsible for public policy. So if you go into any congressional office, there's a staff member and they'll have a portfolio of agriculture environment, armed services, healthcare, and then another staff person who has, you know, transportation and, you know, you just name the issues. They, they've, there's big group of them and they're new relatively on the hill. Some of 'em have been there a long time, but they don't know everything about everything. And a lobbyist's job is to understand who they are, what their boss cares most about, and then to help them understand the issues. And then when you have a public position on an issue to try to see where you can find alignment and, and see, look, your constituents agree with, with our members, and here's where we can find alignment and agreement. And you try to help negotiate those deals. But a lot of, a lot of a lobbyist job is probably very boring to, to tv.

Duane Simpson [00:06:21] But, you know, if I ever made a TV show, it wouldn't be my day in my life because it, it's, it's, it's, it's really just getting to know people and, and providing a lot of information. You're just trying to help people understand facts.

Vance Crowe [00:06:34] I think I have a pretty cynical view of politics. So when I think about going and talking to, you know, a a legislative aid or a, a director of policy for some politician, I kind of think like, aren't the politicians being told who to vote for? And what, like, is there freedom to vote? Do they vote away from their party? Is does anything really matter in this way?

Duane Simpson [00:06:55] You know, there's, there are moments where leadership will say, Hey look, we're not going to pass a farm bill before the election, or we're gonna pass the farm bill out along party lines before the election because we're not ready to, to have the negotiated settlement yet. Those are a necessary evil. That's part of the politics, right? I mean, our job is to work with whoever the American people send here. And you have to understand that they have to get elected to do that job. And so sometimes politics has to play into it, but from a policy perspective, they have, you have to, there, there's a lot of freedom. You know, within, within the two caucuses, there is a, a wide variety amongst Republicans, amongst Democrats on individual issues. And so you take an issue like E 15, you know, that is an issue that breaks both parties. You, you have people that are not part of either political party that are, or that are supporters and opponents in both political parties. And, and that's okay. You just have to find your friends on this issue where they're friendly and when they're on a different issue, you find, you know, which ones will be friendly there and it's not always the same people.

Vance Crowe [00:08:13] So if you can't wine and dine people, you're not sliding over the legislation to 'em. When

Duane Simpson [00:08:18] You

Vance Crowe [00:08:18] Meet a legislative director, what's that like? I have to imagine you are one of many people that wants to meet with them. You're in competition.

Duane Simpson [00:08:25] Yeah, I mean, it, time is the limit is the limiting factor, right? People ha their job is to know the issues, be able to answer any question that their boss has and, and be able to make recommendations so their boss can ultimately make a decision. So, so their number one thing is time. Your job if you're walking in and trying to compete for that time is to show relevance to their district. And the relevance to their district is, you know, I've got a member of mine that, that, you know, employs 2000 people in your district, or, you know, we've got seven co-ops in your district that, that are, are relevant. Or if you are, you know, and my previous employer, you know, we sell, you know, we, we have a manufacturing facility in your district or you know, 30 million acres of, of, of corn or sold in your state or what, whatever, you know, you have to bring that back to them so they understand there, there are voters in my district that care about what you're about to tell me, and so I'm gonna take this meeting.

Vance Crowe [00:09:27] And that does have an impact. I mean, having a factory or, or saying, you know, I represent this block of voters makes it so people are interested to sit down with you.

Duane Simpson [00:09:36] It, it, it changes everything. So it, it, it's, the, the best thing you can do is have your members or your voters come with you, right? So that's why in Washington, one of the number one things lobbyists do is they hold clients. So they, the, their clients or their trade association members come to Washington. The most important thing anyone can do is be the constituent in the room. If you're not gonna be the constituent in the room, then you need to have the representative of the constituent in the room. And so, but being able to say, I represent the people that, that vote for you on this issue, and here is what you need to know and here's the facts. That's, that's what what helps get you in the room. The second biggest thing is integrity. You have to build a reputation as someone who's never gonna lie to them. You know, that's probably the second biggest misconception is that people think that everyone in politics, you know, has a, a unique and a different relationship with the truth than your everyday American does. And the truth of the matter is, is that if I walked into a, a member of Congress's office and I misled them left out some very important facts or, or did anything of that nature, I'm never getting back in that office again. And, and that's, you know, and nor am I probably getting any office that they care about that, that we're their friends. And so, you know, you have to protect your reputation and your integrity at all costs. And so you, you know, sometimes you have to share with them, look, there, there's two sides to every issue. Here's the, here's the upside, here's the downside, here's why we think the upside's better. And, and, and that's those types of conversations.

Duane Simpson [00:11:06] If you become known as an honest broker, somebody with integrity, and that represents people in their district, you're, you'll, you'll get those meetings. And if you do it well enough, long enough, they'll call you when they have a question.

Vance Crowe [00:11:18] It's funny you brought up the fly-ins because, so I'm on the FCS financial, the farm credit board here in Missouri, and they're always like, Hey, we're gonna go do the fly-ins, we need the people to go. And, I mean, I like all the people that are there, but I kind of roll my eyes being like, what does it matter if I show up? And you're saying it actually does matter

Duane Simpson [00:11:36] And well, it, it gets the meaning. So there are two types of fly-ins. There are fly-ins that are designed to show the members of the FCS board, Hey, look at all the influence and the access we have, and that's meant to make you continue to pay them. And then there are ins that are meant to actually move a piece of legislation. And I'm not judging one way or the other on, on any fly-in you've been in, but you will know, if you've been to a few of them, what one you're on. I can tell you that there are fly-ins where you've got an issue and you're moved. If it wasn't for the fly-in, you probably wouldn't move the issue. And that that is, that is terribly important. And it helps cement that relationship between a member of congress, their staff, the trade association that, that you're, you're working for that, that you're a member of, and you, the local constituent, you bring those all together and that, that builds a long-term relationship. There are times when you're doing the fly-in, and the fly-in is really a promotional event for the organization. If you do, if you do that very, very many times, you won't have every many members coming to your fly-in. So they have to be meaningful, they have to have a real impact, or your members are gonna stop coming and, and frankly, the, the you're, you're gonna start not getting actual members of Congress taking your meetings when you come in.

Vance Crowe [00:12:59] So as I think about something like lobbying, it seems so complicated, so many people, so many groups, but when you're in DC and you understand it, are you able to discern, are there, is there a hierarchy to lobbying firms? Are there circles? How, how can one that's from the outside begin to understand the complex network of lobbying?

Duane Simpson [00:13:22] Well, first of all, everybody that listens to your show is represented by a lobbyist, whether they realize it or not. They, they, it's, it probably several of them, you know, if they're gun owners, there are several organizations that, that support the Second amendment. If they, if they're opposed to guns. There are several organizations that don't, lobbyists even have a lobbying organization for lobbyists whose job it's is to go out and make sure that the rules are fair because no lobbyist wants to walk in the door and say, Hey, don't, don't restrict me. Right? And so, so there's everybody has of their own has lobbyists. So that, that's the first thing. There are different levels, right? There are in-house lobbyists that work for companies, and when they walk in the door, they have a very specific constituency that they're working for. It's a constituency of one. And now they may at, when we were at Monsanto together, we were working on behalf of farmers getting access to our tools. But on the other side of that table, they were seeing a lobbyist for Monsanto, right? There are trade associations like where I work, where, you know, you have a constituency of a number of companies that have a, like a like agenda for us. It's farmer owned cooperatives that, you know, business, we, we work to promote the business and policy interests of America's farmer owned co-ops. That's what we do. And so those associations, corn growers, farm Bureau, national farmers union, cotton growers, soybean growers, you know, cattlemen, the, they all have a, something that brings them specifically together and then that allows them to represent that niche part of the overall economy.

Duane Simpson [00:15:02] And it, it could be accountants, real estate agents, you know, I mean, it, it doesn't matter teachers that, you know, they, there's lots and lots and lots of those, those, and then there are the contract lobbyists. Now these are the people that have probably worked in other parts of, of the, the, the industry, so to speak. And they work for multi-client, multiple clients. So they, they don't work just for a trade association or just for a company. They work for several of them. Typically they have an area or two of expertise. You know, they may be a defense contractor lobbyist or an ag lobbyist or a banking lobbyist or a pharmaceutical lobbyist because that's where their, their knowledge base is. And then they have a, a group of clients and that makes them even more and more knowledgeable in that space. Together. You put those together, that's pretty much what the overall universe looks like. And a lot of places use all three. So if you're a company, you have in-house lobbyists, you belong to trade associations and you, and you hire contract lobbyists and you use them for different things. So you'll use the trade association to build industry-wide policy. You'll, you'll focus on individual products at your company and you'll use your contract lobbyists for a specific intel or to help get a meeting that you maybe don't have a relationship with so that you, maybe you have A-A-A-C-E-O come into town and you're trying to get them in with somebody. And your contract lobbyist has a better relationship than anyone on your team. And so there are different types of lobbyists and they have different roles in the system.

Vance Crowe [00:16:33] Alright, we're gonna take a quick break to talk about a service I offer called Legacy Interviews. This is where me or my staff sit down with your loved ones to record their life stories so that future generations can know their family history. This is a perfect gift for grandma and granddad who live far away and you know that they have stories and a history that your children should know about, but they've never really had a chance to hear them. If you are interested in having me or one of our hosts interview your parents, grandparents or loved ones, go to Legacy Interviews dot com to find out more. Having the legacy interview, you know, really helps 'em open up. I was surprised at the depth the questions went into and to see very authentic answers. I was watching it and I was like, whoa, okay, this is like a new side of Jay that's coming out. I can see like how much excitement it brought him to share the things that he has a hard time talking about. I think in a day-to-day conversation, you won't be provoked to answer your questions like that. So when a company goes out to hire, like a contract lobbyist or, or whoever, what is that conversation like? Like how do you even set up fees? Is it working like an attorney, however many hours somebody's working for you? Or how does that work?

Duane Simpson [00:17:54] Most of the most lobbying contracts are done on an annual, like a retainer basis. You, you pay a, you know, a certain amount per year. And it's, and it's really based on, I I mean obviously in Washington, fees are higher than in the states. And in California, fees are higher than Missouri. And Missouri is higher than it is in North Dakota, right? So, I mean, it, it's, it just, it's a function of, of supply and demand. There are lots of lobbyists. So, you know, there you, but they're not all the same. If you're wanting to pay for that lobbyist that has, you know, the, the president of the United States on speed dial, that's not me by the way. You know, you're probably gonna pay a little bit of money to be able to get that person to, to, to use their relationship on your behalf behalf. The every lobbyist has different skill sets. They, and you're gonna pay a different price. And some of it is also is what all you're asking them to do. Are you asking them to monitor things for you and just keep you updated? Are you asking them to do, you know, analysis of what happened in the last election or bill analysis? Are you asking them to drive a specific piece of legislation and lead a coalition or do things like that for you? What you're asking them to do is gonna change how much it costs because it, it is, at the end of the day, it's a time, you know, it's a time issue is how much, how much of their time are you asking for them to, to, to dedicate to you and your team.

Vance Crowe [00:19:25] So you mentioned that you are, well, why don't you talk about the organization that you're working with, farmer led cooperatives. What is it and why do they need somebody at in Washington, DC

Duane Simpson [00:19:36] Sure. So the National Council of Farmer Cooperatives has been around since 1929. We represent the business and policy interest of America's former own co-op. So besides advocacy, we do work around education for board directors, for legal tax and accounting people for hr. You know, we do a number of things outside of advocacy, but in the advocacy space, we focus on those things that allow pharma owned cooperatives to compete against in the current ag economy. So, you know, we co-ops came into existence back during the Gilded age. If you go back, you know, to the time of the trust, the railroad trusts, the, the big sugar trust, those places, they were taking advantage of farmers and farmers came together and they negotiated as, as a unit and they were able to get better deals for their, you know, the products they were buying and for the products that they're selling. And so cooperatives have been formed up and down the supply chain. We represent every type of agriculture in America. We have every part of the supply chain, all the way out to brands that you buy in grocery stores. You know, a number of dairy products are from cooperatives, but you know, things like wels, grape juice, ocean spray, the sun made raisins, the sun, sun suite, the, I mean, you name it, there's a number of products that are owned by cooperatives all the way through the supply chain. And when marketed direct to consumers, the idea behind a farmer owned co-op is today 11 point I think 8 cents of every dollar on the farm or that food dollar gets to the farm with the cooperative, that other 82, 80 8 cents, 88.20 cents, some of that can get back to the farm too.

Duane Simpson [00:21:24] So a farmer and cooperative has three things in common. They're owned by farmers, they're governed by farmers, and the profits go back to farmers. And so by owning different parts of the supply chain, they're able to compete in the global market. They're able to negotiate for better pricing, but they're able to keep more of those dollars that leak out through the supply chain on their own farmer balance sheets they pass through back to the back to the farmer.

Vance Crowe [00:21:50] And so as you are advocating for cooperatives, how is it different than advocating for say, just a, either a family owned company or

Duane Simpson [00:21:59] A,

Vance Crowe [00:21:59] Or a corporation?

Duane Simpson [00:22:01] Well, first of all, we tend to have a, a reputation of a, of a white hat. You know, we have, because we're farmer owned, the members of Congress, whether Republican or democratic tend to treat us as farmers themselves, as they would their farmers and their districts. They, they understand that we're an extension of the farmer directly. We're not profiting from the farmer, we're profiting for the farmer. It's main street versus Wall Street, if you think about it. So that gives us an ability to get indoors in a way when, when you work in the private industry, you, you just don't have the same level of access. It's harder to get in the door to have the first conversation. And so, so that's the first thing I'd say. The second thing is who you're working for. You know, everybody that I know that works in agriculture at the end of the day says they work for farmers. And, and I, I believe that that is true. That that is the why. That's why we do what we do. It's why I did what I did at my previous employer here, any profits that, that my members are able to make end up on the bottom line of a farmer and, and that that is a real, it's a real change. It's a sea change. Because when you work for a private company, whether it's privately held or a publicly traded company, profits go to the owners. That's, that's the capitalist system. It's the way it's supposed to work. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just the question of would you rather you're, you know, if you're helping one company or another, would you rather, and this happens whether you're choosing who you buy from or you're choosing between policy decisions.

Duane Simpson [00:23:40] Would you rather those benefits flow to your farmer and, and your district or to Warren Buffett and, you know, most members of Congress and their staffs would, would prefer to, to see those benefits make it back to the farm.

Vance Crowe [00:23:55] And so it's interesting, your, your field is more than just the food. We talked about that, but it also includes energy. And to me, like I certain, certainly energy has always been important, but right now the emphasis on it, the attention on energy is hugely amplified. So what's going on with farmer cooperatives that are own electrical? Do they own electrical generation or is it mostly just transmission?

Duane Simpson [00:24:22] So, so my members are not the rural electric cooperatives. So, so there's a whole nother trade association, another lobbying group that deals with the electric, the electric generation. But our members do have propane. They, they do, they are involved in fuel. And so, so we, we are involved there, we've seen members that are expanding production capacity, especially around diesel. You know, these are, these are big investments. They're investments that are taking out of the hands of farmers because if they didn't invest that money, it probably would go back to the farm's ba balance sheet. But they're making those investments, those investments are obviously paying off at, you know, as prices go up. So they, as they're getting bigger profits, you know, you, we just saw CHS did their, their annual report and they had some, you know, some very high earnings that's gonna result in very high patronage being paid back to farmers. And so the, the good news is that when you're buying your fuel from a cooperative, your diesel fuel may be elevated and everybody's diesel fuel is elevated. And that's a hard thing for farmers to deal with. But if there are profits that are coming in through that as the fuel volatility drives profits, if you're buying it from a cooperative, you're gonna see that come back to you on their balance sheet.

Vance Crowe [00:25:39] So what are the big issues right now and

Duane Simpson [00:25:42] How

Vance Crowe [00:25:42] Much has changed as a result of, there's gonna be a whole lot of new people in DC coming up here in a couple months?

Duane Simpson [00:25:49] Well, you know, and as I said at the top, we, we work with whoever the American people send us, right? That's our job. The, the America people decide who they want to represent them. Our job is to work with them to try to, to enact good policy. The hundred 19th Congress isn't done. We, we still have to pass a farm bill. There's a number of other things we need to do. But I think that the biggest thing for agriculture that needs to get done here between now and January is to finish the farm bill. Because if we go into the next Congress without a farm bill, it, you're gonna have to start over. You are gonna have two new chairman running, running the system. You're gonna start from scratch. It's gonna, you're gonna lose months and months and months. And if then you're gonna get back into the whole discussion around nutrition dollars versus title $1. And as you do that, you may end up even getting a bto. And so we are so close to getting this finished that we should get this, get to a compromise, get this across the finish line. And I feel like we will, I think the four corners of the ad committee, the chairman and ranking members of the House and Senate, I think they are, are to where they're close enough that we will have a deal done. The question that that's in front of us is will leadership put it on the floor? Because there's a lot of things that need to be done. You need to fa do the National Defense Act, you've gotta do the appropriations act, you've gotta do the, the funding for, for the budget that it's gonna expire. There's, there's a number of things that have to get done before Congress is over.

Duane Simpson [00:27:22] So the biggest challenge for the Farm bill is getting time on the floor for next year. When you get the new Congress, you're gonna have different priorities. You know, Democrats are gonna be on the majority, both party, both chambers are gonna have sizable majorities. And so the priorities are gonna be different. I think that from an ag perspective, ag labor reform is one where there's still a lot of bipartisan support that you might be able to see something move. You know, there's all of the same fights that have been there for a long time, still exist, you know, how much enforcement is appropriate, amount enforcement, what, how do, what does that look like? You know, all of those things are still there and they're gonna have to be worked out. But I do think there's an opportunity to, to do something big on ag labor after that, you know, I think you'll see more opportunities on conservation programs. I think you'll see more opportunities around nutrition. I think you'll, you'll see, continue to see a conversation around, you know, ultra processed food de definitions and those types of things around what the food is that we eat and, and trying to make sure we have a healthy, healthy diet. So some of the conversation will continue, some of it, our worst stuff,

Vance Crowe [00:28:34] The Farm Bill one is, I'm, I'm surprised to hear you say this, I know there's a lot of energy going towards people saying, Hey, we've gotta get a farm bill. But to me, when I think of like a lame duck session, right, where you've got a whole bunch of people and the majority is gonna change, I, I don't know enough about the political situation to see how it is in people's interests to see that farm bill passed. Is it, how, how do you wrangle everybody up to be like, I know you're on your way out, but let's get this thing passed.

Duane Simpson [00:29:02] Well, I I think the people that are on their way out want to want to have a little bit of a legacy. So, you know, they're, they're willing to finish what they started. They, they put a lot of work. I mean, this thing is three years overdue. They, they don't want it. They don't want to have done all that work and then not finish it. So you, you think about the, the two ranking members both from Minnesota, you know, Angie Craig, she, she's not coming back to Congress unless she gets appointed to the Senate. And, but Amy Klobuchar, who's gonna go on to be governor, they wanna finish the work that they did. They, they worked on this thing and, and they, they put a lot of good work in negotiation. And 90 something percent of the Farm bill as it's come out as a partisan bill, 90 something percent of that has broad bipartisan support. There are only a handful of issues that are controversial in there. And, and I think they're getting those edges down to where they can reach a compromise. They, there, there's a real interest in getting it done. And if you're a Republican that isn't coming back again, you still want to be able to go home and say, hold your head up and say, look, we got something done here. And, and this is important for, for the people they represent. If you've been on the Ag committee, you've been doing this work for a very long time and, and you've been trying to get to the, get to the finish line, we are, we are, you know, I'm gonna mix a lot of metaphors here, but we're, we're on the one yard line going in and you know, I'm a Kansas City cheese fan. Watch, watch them not get it done at Denver on the, in the final minutes.

Duane Simpson [00:30:33] You know, that that would be a, that'd be a travesty if, if we don't get it finished when we get this close to the end and, and, and, you know, we either gotta get it done or my fear is if you don't get it done, you're not gonna pass it at all in the next Congress either because of the, because of the partisan makeup, you know, with the Republican president and Democratic Congress and all of the other things that the Democrats and Congress that are coming in want to work on, that they want to get the work from the hundred 19th Congress done so they can focus on the issues they ran on, on tariffs and on affordability and, and issues like that.

Vance Crowe [00:31:10] You know, Dwayne, I you use this term and I give a lot of talk, so I hear a lot of lobbyists come and talk to the groups that they're, you know, that I'm meeting with and they use terms like they've been working hard, right? These politicians or these people are hardworking. What does that actually mean? Right? Like I, it's hard for me to feel a texture like that. That's hard work, isn't it? Just like crossing something out or typing something into it.

Duane Simpson [00:31:36] Yeah, so, so the members of Congress themselves aren't, aren't the ones doing the writing and the, the, the crossing out. But, but they're the ones having those hard conversations, trying to figure out how to put a square peg into a round hole. You know, how far, you know, you have 435 members of Congress that all have their own idea of what needs to be in a house Bill. You got a hundred senators that all have their own idea of what needs to be in a senate bill and to get to, to two 18 and 60 to to be able to pass a bill. That's, it's not easy. And so if you are in the leadership team that is trying to pull all of those different perspectives together and you have people like me coming in and saying, Hey, here's something that's really important to your, your constituents and we need it to be in, and the house agrees and the Senate doesn't, you've gotta figure out, well what are we giving, what are we taking to get there? You know, people think that that members of Congress maybe don't work hard. They, they, they, I think they have some of the hardest jobs around because they're, they're in Washington, you know, Tuesday through Thursday with meetings with on, on every issue you can dream of. They have to have a position on every single thing, even if they're not an expert. So they're constantly meeting with people to understand an issue and learn studying. It's like being back in school. Plus they have to negotiate, you know, what, where their position is, what they think their constituents want.

Duane Simpson [00:33:07] They have to talk to their constituents to figure out what's best for their district. And, and then they have to try to make the deals work. And while they're doing that, then they have to go home and you know, the good ones, they go home and they meet with their constituents all through the weekend. When, when you and I are wanting to, to go to a kid's ball game or go go watch a an NFL or a college football game or something like that, they're trying to spend that time meeting with, with the people who put 'em in office and then they turn around and they come back. You know, there's not a lot of downtime for a member of Congress or for their staffs. And, and, and that's a good thing. I mean, I, I don't think I'm going to, I'm building any sympathy in your audience for members of Congress, but it, it is not an easy job. And no matter what you do, somebody's gonna be not happy with you. And they're going to, even, even if you do everything right, somebody's gonna run a campaign commercial against you that's gonna distort what you did, or just make something up out a whole cloth and they're gonna beat you up and try to tear you down and tear your personally down and tear your family down. And your family has to see that. Your kids have to see it. They go to school with people that see it. So, you know, this is not an easy thing to, to be involved in public service, you know, and it, and it is, it is, it's long hours. It, it's, you know, it, it's not well respected, you know, people, we don't look at public servants the way we used to. And, and so, you know, there's a lot of people that are cynical about politics. I, I can tell you I've known thousands and thousands of people who've served in government in one way or another.

Duane Simpson [00:34:45] And I would put on, you know, two hands the number of people that I thought that were not at least there for the right reason. Now, do some people lose their way? Sure. But the, the overwhelming majority, the high, high 90% of them came to Washington, came to their state capital because they wanted to do something for their kids, for their community around a specific issue. And they get focused on that. And that's, and they're up there trying to do good work. And, and the other dirty little secret of Washington and state capitals is they agree on a hell of a lot more than they disagree on. But the disagreements are what makes good news copy. And that's what makes, makes it on the cable news networks and makes it on the social media algorithms, the stuff they agree on. You know, those are the things where we can get, we can get a lot of things done.

Vance Crowe [00:35:35] I mean this like a jarring, how different your view is on than I think the general public, you know, you mentioned things like ads and campaign ads. I, I, I did not actually experience very many ads 'cause I pay a lot of money to have subscriptions. So you, you can't get to me on YouTube, you can't get to me on these various platforms. Like it's very difficult. But a lot of people just experienced months of endless calls and endless assaults on these political campaigns. What is the line between campaign ads and lobbying and this kind of nebulous world that's, it's not quite politics, but it's, it is politics. I don't know.

Duane Simpson [00:36:16] You, you know, as, as somebody on this side of the, of the business, I, I try not to pay attention to the campaign ads. I try not to pay attention to the text messages. I actually, when I left Bear to come here, I changed my, my phone because 17 years where I had been a member of, or a leader of a state government affairs team, there were probably 10,000 state legislators that had my cell phone number and had sold it to their, to their, to their campaign. And so I was getting, you know, I mean my phone would just go off at all hours of the day because it's different time zones with, you know, text messages. I tried to block everybody as fast as I could and they just kept coming me. So I just changed my phone number. I feel sorry for the St. Louis person who got it because, because because you, you're, you're on more list than anyone should be

Vance Crowe [00:37:06] On that would be a certain kind of hell wouldn't it? Like it would, it,

Duane Simpson [00:37:09] Would it, it would make you wanna, it would, it would, it would be very, very unfortunate to get that. But it, the way I look at the, the ads are, there's always a little bit of truth in them, in, in some of them, right? They, there's, but they're really about trying to get the big picture issue to sway The most effective ads are not the, you know, those evil ads where you have the dark, you know, the black and white image and the, the, the, the deep baritone voice telling you how evil someone is. The best ads are the ones that li use a little bit of humor and they, they, they break through the noise and you, you, you see something you haven't seen before. I think this one's ad that I think would win an award that they gave him, they may give him, I don't know, is the one that the, the Democratic candidate for the US Senate ran in, in Mississippi. If you haven't seen it, look it up. You know, Senator Cindy Hyde Smith, who is a great senator, she was being interviewed once about the price of hamburger and made a comment that there are other types of protein. And they took that clip and they showed a guy flipping a burger saying, you choose another protein, I'd rather choose another senator. And they had multiple people saying that. And it was, it was a great ad and, and it, and it moved people. So, so those types of things, you know, sometimes you hit that moment where, you know, affordability is an issue.

Duane Simpson [00:38:40] You can make a case that somebody maybe is losing touch. I don't think Cindy Heights Smith had lost touch with Mississippi voters, but it was, it, it resonated with voters and it, and it definitely, you know, helped surprise that state, put that state in play. If you don't get ads, you, you, you and I maybe need to talk offline about how I can, how I can avoid it. My, my problem is, I, I like sports too much. And they figured out that live sports is a place where it's really hard to avoid advertising. And so you get inundated with advertisements as you watch live sports. And that, that seems to be the only place that people don't pay to get a get around them. So,

Vance Crowe [00:39:21] So you know, just a huge election and a big sea change. And, you know, to hear the Monday morning quarterbacking, people are describing it as like, this was shocking or surprising to me. This seemed like obvious or inevitable that there was gonna be a change, that people were unhappy from where you're sitting in DC was this a shocking thing? Are people just, they have to act like they're shocked because they lost and, and they had just been trying to play the game as hard as they could. What is this sea chain like? There

Duane Simpson [00:39:53] A couple things. First of all, even when you know, you're losing, you can't tell your everybody you're losing because then

Vance Crowe [00:39:59] They'll come out.

Duane Simpson [00:40:00] So, so I, I don't think it was a surprise that Democrats took the House of Senate. I I was in Texas about two weeks before the election. The head of government affairs was in Kansas at the same time. I mean, we came back from there knowing Paxton and Marshall were gonna lose. What I couldn't have told you was that, that Texas was going to elect every statewide constitutional office as a Democrat. I didn't see that. I thought Abbott was ba maybe in trouble, didn't realize Patrick was in trouble. I thought Nate Sheets was gonna win that, that Ag Commissioner race. So the depth really, really generally at the top of the ticket, you know, when you have a high turnout for something like that, it doesn't go all the way through in a heavy red state or a heavy blue state. So how deep it went is, is a little shocking. And I think that, you know, as widespread as it was, there was always the potential that there'd be a pulling miss one way or the other. We've kind of become used to seeing polling misses, making, you know, it towards, you know, making it look like Democrats have more strength than they do this time. The polls underestimated the energy and the democratic base and, and frankly, the frustration that Republicans had with, with the President and independence. I mean, I, you, the Republicans lost every single demographic compared to 2024. Every age group, every, you know, every race, every gender, every religion, all of them move left.

Duane Simpson [00:41:37] And and there's a lot of reasons for it. I I don't need to be that commentator for you, but, you know, I don't think people should be surprised. I think the most interesting outcome of that is what happened in rural America. Because since President Trump came on the scene, rural America had been voting more and more and more Republican every election. This cycle has swung very hard the other direction. And I think that'll bode well for agriculture and Congress because democrats now again have to have to protect those members. They have, they have members there that, that represent rural America. What had happened from 2016 on is that you were losing rural American champions in the Democratic caucus. They were losing races. Colin Peterson, blanche Lincoln, and people like that were no longer there. And so you had a, a democratic caucus that was made up of people from the cities and the suburbs and not rural America. Now they represent rural America again. And they're gonna have to, you know, that'll help get us to bipartisan ag policy that we've grown used to over generations and and it'll be a good thing overall for agriculture.

Vance Crowe [00:42:48] Yeah, it's so interesting 'cause it, you would think like, hey, if you have a state that is leaning entirely in one direction, that that would give you a lot of power. But it's actually, if you're closer to being purple, if you're a little bit blue and a little bit red, now all of a sudden people are like, let's get in there and figure out what we've gotta do to please the constituencies. And in a lot of ways, farmers were dealing themselves outta the game by having such uniform support that if you break that up, now all of a sudden people have to compete for that, that rural vote, which they, they hadn't even been playing for it before.

Duane Simpson [00:43:21] Yeah, you, the, the thing that you would hear people say on Capitol Hill sometimes was, there's nothing in this bill for me. If it wasn't, if it didn't have nutrition in it, and it was only about ag policy and that you never want to hear that. You know, you want every single member of Congress to think that ag policy is something that's important for their constituents. You know, being part of the having your vote be competitive is a good thing. You know, when people are competing over soccer moms, soccer moms issues rise to the top. When people are fighting over seniors, Medicare and social security are at the top of the issues. If farmers vote the same way, no matter what happens, well, Republicans can get to the point where they think they can't lose them and Democrats to the point where they think they can't be get them. So why would they try this election? I think disproved that it showed that, hey, if, if Democrats make an effort to, to help rural America and to talk to rural America to hear the issues that that rural America is dealing with, rural America will, will split its vote. And that's

Vance Crowe [00:44:28] Yeah, look no further than Iowa, right, where farmers are voting for a guy that city's gonna get involved in water policy and they're there for it. The farmer's voting for him.

Duane Simpson [00:44:35] Yeah. You look at Iowa, you look at Kansas, you look at Texas, I mean, you, you saw a lot of people, you know, that are traditionally rural states, rural congressional districts, south, South Carolina, you, you've, the, the Democratic caucus moved, right? And the, the rural America moved left and, you know, is it permanent? No, I don't think it's permanent. I think that, you know, some of those seats may flip back in the next election cycle, but that's gonna depend on how those representatives and those senators, how they serve their constituents over the next two years or six years. And, and if they serve rural America, well rural America will stick with them. And if they don't, they'll replace them. And, and that's just the way politics works. But you know, it's, it's, it's a healthy thing for, for the ag community to have every single member of Congress competing to get our votes because that's how your policies actually get to the forefront.

Vance Crowe [00:45:35] So JD Vance has gone out there and said, look, I think that this big washout loss largely can, you know, was because of the Iran war and people were unhappy with that and the knock on effects, when you hear that, do you think that he's saying something political in order to, you know, save his own career or keeping it on, you know, narrow so that way people don't, you know, think too much about other things they didn't do well on?

Duane Simpson [00:46:02] You know, I mean, JD Vance has to say what JD Vance has to say, right? He has to, he has to define the loss on something that he, that he's already built a reputation that wasn't really his call, right? I mean it, you know, and some people are responding to that by saying, well, you know, you lost some people on the Iran war when you tried to cut a deal with them that basically, you know, surrendered and, and trying to put it back on his plate. I think the Iran War helped drive inflation, especially on energy where it really mattered. And I think it was a huge part, part of what happened, but it is not the whole story. I think tariffs is a real issue. I think that, you know, if, if you're just look from rural America, if we didn't pass E 15, you had the whole Argentinian beef issue. You had you, we haven't passed a farm bill, you have, you lost trade markets because of tariffs and, and trade wars and including Canada, China, you're, you're trying, you're looking to blow up the U-S-M-C-A. So even Mexico, our biggest markets, you know, at some point your fertilizer prices through the roof, diesel prices through the roof. I mean, at some point, you know, you are having a real impact on a farmer's day-to-day ability to stay on the farm. It should surprise no one that some of those farmers looked at that and said, we gotta be able to do better somewhere. And, and, and did something different. Is that all the Iran war?

Duane Simpson [00:47:34] No. Are fertilizer prices and diesel prices higher because of the Iran war? Yes. Is was that the straw that broke the camel's back for some voters, for all voters? I don't think so. I think there are a lot of things that helped make this happen, but I also think there's this general sense that people in Washington were paying attention to the wrong things. You know, the number of people who have asked me about reflecting pools, the the Kennedy Center, the the Trump arch, the, the picture on a passport and gold coins and, and the ballroom and all of those things when, you know, the, the first, the first public appearance of the president post-election was in the ballroom. You know, there are plenty of people out in the country that are saying, wait a second, I I can't afford my groceries and my gas bill and my healthcare at the same time. And you are worried about the gold leaf and the quality of the marble in a ballroom. We are not, you, you, you're missing the connection opportunity with your voters here. And this is the same president who in 2016 put his finger right on the pulse of the American voter that that said, look, I get it, you used to work at an aircraft manufacturing facility or an air conditioning manufacturing facility and now you're a greeter at Walmart because free trade didn't work for you and it only worked for the, for the elites on the coast. And he was right and he was able to get voters there, but he didn't have his finger on the pulse anymore. And, and at least that's the perception there, and they didn't feel like they were being heard.

Duane Simpson [00:49:05] And so they made sure that they used the one opportunity they have to make sure people hear them. And they voted and they voted very loud and everybody heard them on the election.

Vance Crowe [00:49:17] One of the things that I see going on here that I don't hear talked about in, in the media, but I see it in social media, I hear it among the younger people that I talk to, is that there is a very large political divide growing between different age brackets between the old and the young. And there are younger people saying like, you guys just keep, you know, like look at all these politicians that are clearly benefiting so much from their, you know, being in Congress for so long, look at how many rules are being set up so that the older continue to benefit from it. And I know they're a giant voting block. Does DC see this? Do they, do they feel this generational push coming?

Duane Simpson [00:49:58] Yeah, I I think it's, they're starting to see it. I, I think that there is, there's not the unified generational push the way the boomers are pretty unified if you try to touch social security or Medicare, but you're starting to see people say things like, Hey, why do I have to keep paying social security? You're already getting more out than you paid in. And my I'm put I, every time I pay in, there's gonna be nothing left for me. Like I, I mean when I was a kid, hey, you know, I'm a Gen x Gen Xer, when I was a kid, we were told there won't be any social security for us now, you know, I'm not that far away from social security and there may not be social security when I get there. You know, there are people somewhere along the line that are gonna say, we need to make sure that, that this system works for the future. And they, it it's, it's it's a generational divide that, that absolutely is. You touched on something different though, and you talked about members of Congress who are doing well themselves. One of the big issues that showed up is the idea of corruption. You know, and you, you see, you know, members of Congress who are better investors than Warren Buffet, you know, stock trading, you see these big bets being made on calci and poly markets right before an announcement with Iran and then right after an announcement with Iran and they're, they're somebody is front running decisions being made by the administration and they're making a fortune doing it. All that does is turn off voters.

Duane Simpson [00:51:29] And you know, I think that there is a huge opportunity for both political parties to clean that up because I don't think that this is the problem of one party or the other. I think that you could make a case that, you know, people that are close to the last president and the current president have profited in ways that are unseemly and the voters certainly don't like and possibly illegal. I think that you can say that about members of Congress from both political parties. I think the vast majority of 'em don't. But the ones that, that don't need to hold, the ones that do accountable, even if they're in their own political party, their own tribe, you know, you have, if you can't police your own, then it becomes a partisan issue. This shouldn't be partisan. Nobody should profit from public service like that. You shouldn't be able to take advantage of your public service and make yourself wealthy. And the people that do should pay a very heavy price and, and, and that heavy price should involve prison time. You know, that that, that I think is, I think if you ran on that as a candidate, you would probably get a massive, you know, crossover vote. I I And you saw it,

Vance Crowe [00:52:45] You saw

Duane Simpson [00:52:45] It in in States? Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:52:46] Yeah. I mean, like, you take somebody like a OC you know, I have very little in common with her, but there was funny 'cause somebody like they, they were showing her bank account or how, you know, her filing for how much money she had and it was like very clear that she does not have any money And so the one thing that she could hold up there and be like, see, I am not benefiting from this corruption. And other people are kind of rolling their eyes and being like, you idiot, everybody else is. But you're saying no, it's not that, it's not the vast majority, I think the general public, maybe myself included, feel like this is the reason people go. They're gonna go and get as, gather as much as they can from the public coffer or their, their situation that they have set up and and, and then they'll get out when they get out.

Duane Simpson [00:53:31] Yeah. I I think that the, and, and I still think it's a very small number of people who are trading on non-public information and that are, are, are taking advantage of others in the marketplace by doing that. Have, have there always been people who when they retire voluntarily or involuntarily from public service, turn around and get into the business I'm in? Yes. And they, and they make good money doing that. I think there are lots of them that go serve on public boards for companies that they used to write regulations for. And there, those, those public companies that are paying former members of Congress to serve on their board, you know, that's, that's a type of a soft corruption that that also gets seen. You know, I think that those, those are different things, but I, I think that's all of a kind, and, and that's, that's what turns voters cynical. And, and voters don't want to see that. They want to see the public, you know, service be truly public service. That's why there's calls for things like term limits. You know, it, it's amazing to me that Ron DeSantis and a OC agree on stock trading. You know, you, Josh Hawley is right there with them. You, you could find people up and down the political spectrum and say, Hey, we should do this. And, and people will actually try to make it a political hit that a OC doesn't have any money as if, because hey, she must be bad with money. And well, you know, maybe that's, that's an endearing thing, not a bad thing.

Duane Simpson [00:55:02] And, and that's, you know, as you were saying, so I think that there is a place for having a sea change around this. The last time you saw corruption be this high up in the polls in an election cycle was 1994 and the contract with America. And that was following the banking scandal, the franking scandal, where members of Congress were using their, their kite checking, their, their ability to write checks and bounce checks on the congressional bank and their ability to get free mail, those two big scandals. And you also had that they were writing laws that didn't apply to Congress. And that that more than anything else, wa was part of the Republican revolution of 1994. And I think that corruption or the perception of corruption more than most other issues has a lot to do with red states that are turning blue. I I think it's, it's one of the top three issues. Inflation cost of, you know, those types of things. But corruption absolutely is an issue and, and both parties would do very well to stamp it out.

Vance Crowe [00:56:08] One of the most hilarious memes I've seen after this election was the guys from the All In podcast are suddenly dressed and have purple hair and they have nose rings and they have pronouns in their, in their bios. And it's, you know, it's a playoff of when the last election happened, there was a bunch of this stuff that was thrown off and now people are joking, oh, it's all going to come back. Do you expect the culture to change rapidly in, in this way? That's kind of being MeMed right now?

Duane Simpson [00:56:38] I, you know, I I, I'm, I'm probably as far from the culture, you know, what's gonna happen here or there as, as anybody out there. I I, I'm probably getting to that age where I, I, I'm like, you know, stepping off of those, those trains. I, I would tell you, I would tell you that there was a very decided movement, you know, post 2020 from corporate America to show that they were aligned with the, the moment. And, and I think that they went further than the public. And you saw that with some advertising that had bad backlashes. You saw that, you know, when the 2024 election came. And so then you started seeing all that stuff kind of strip away. I think that this is one where I don't know that the pendulum is gonna swing quite so far the other direction, because if you look at the political campaigns that Democrats ran on, they weren't running on those issues. Republicans were, but voters weren't voting on it. Democrats weren't running on, on being woke this, this election cycle. They were running on pocketbook issues. They were running on on corruption. And, and so I don't know that I anticipate a full swing back. I could tell you if they do, that's probably the fastest way to flip the, the Congress yet again. And so, you know, all people want is the pendulum to, to end up somewhere in the middle. And so, you know, it swings far to the right, it swings far to the left and you know, for a short amount of time while it's going through the middle, people are pretty happy.

Duane Simpson [00:58:16] And then it goes to the excess and people dump it out, and then you go back and forth and, you know, there, there's an opportunity, the first political party that figures out that, hey, a win doesn't mean a mandate for my base to do everything at once, is going to have a longer term majority. But every election except two, it since the turn of the century has been a change election where one one, either the house, the Senate or the presidency changes. And so, you know, it's, it's a quarter century now and we haven't figured it out. I think the first party that does is going to be able to have a lasting majority for some time.

Vance Crowe [00:58:55] Yeah. I, I watched a short excerpt of a New York Times reporter interviewing, I think the woman that won governorship of New York and she, or of of Texas. And I'm pretty sure she was just sitting there being like, Hey, look, this just isn't on my agenda. Like I'm not, the culture war is not a part of what we're doing. And I was like, Hey, wow, that's totally sensible. If we could keep corporations and politics out of being a part of the culture war left or right, that's, I prefer that.

Duane Simpson [00:59:22] Yeah. I, I think that, I think that most Americans would prefer the government and, and their, their employer to not be involved in culture wars. And, and if frankly, you know, at those of us that came up in more of a libertarian bet have been begging both political parties to do that for, for our entire lives. And so I, I think that if, if you actually saw that happen, I think that that would probably be a good and healthy thing for, for the next political campaign. You know, maybe we can have a campaign that's, that's talking about issues that matter to the American voter and, and not issues that, that are on the fringe that most people don't see every day.

Vance Crowe [01:00:00] So Dwayne, as we're wrapping up, you are so, and you've always been this way, you've optimistic and forward-leaning and trying to find a bigger picture. It is, it's one of the reasons why we've, we've been friends beyond just our, our work. But I, when you look at the world, I think there's a lot of cynicism out there. People choosing not to vote, people thinking maybe we're about to head into a civil war. Hey, these, the, the politics is broken. What is the case you make to people that like, hey, don't, don't take the black pill. There's, there's a, there's another way,

Duane Simpson [01:00:35] You know, if, if you go read the Declaration of Independence, and a lot of people do that are saying, we need a civil war, you know, it does say that you shouldn't have a civil war for light and in transient causes, right? That the history is littered with people who threw off a government and because of a petty grievance that ended up with true tyranny and, you know, spent some time studying the, the French Revolution only to see how the leaders of the French Revolution went to the guillotine. You know, so I, I would start with be careful what you wish for a civil war in the US would be an absolute disaster for everybody. So don't wish for that, that that's first and foremost. Let's not wish for that. Secondly, I would tell you that somebody that voted different than than you is not your enemy. You know, they, they are an American citizen that, that believes in the same thing. You believe they want to have a better life for their kids, for themselves, for their grandkids. And, and they are trying their best to make sure that they have, you know, clean streets, that are safe, safe schools that teach their kids and, and good jobs that are available in good healthcare and a safe world where, where, you know that we're not at war though. We disagree on how you get there. And, and so I, I think that the worst thing that's happened in politics the last several years is that we have demonized our opponents.

Duane Simpson [01:02:12] They're a Nazi, they're a communist, they're a, you know what, whatever, whatever it is, you know, the, you know, Donald Trump isn't, isn't Hitler, Bush wasn't Hitler, you know, Joe Biden wasn't, wasn't, you know, sta or pull pot. I mean, we need to stop that. I think social media makes it harder to stop that. I think the algorithm is drive it. I think the black pill meme, you know, is, is something that people find attractive. I I think that this country works a lot better when we focus on the people that are trying to make things better. And, and honestly, I would tell people the best way to make things better is to not look to Washington to make it better for you, but to make it better in your own community. And, but, you know, maybe step back a little bit from politics, you know, the, the meme go out and touch grass. You know, there, there is, there is certainly some truth to that too. I have hope in our government being able to do good things because I know the people who work here and, and I know they're good people. I know in their hearts that they want to do good work and, and they're trying to, they're just gotta get to where they can get enough votes to get it across. And we have, we've been sending narrow majorities to Congress for a very long time, and those narrow majorities have incentives to not work together because you're gonna go from the minority to the majority very easily. And so I, I think that people are, give a, give a little grace to your leaders. Give them some time. And I think you might be surprised at, at how far we can go.

Vance Crowe [01:03:46] Well, Dwayne, as always, that was a message of, of hope and, and I'm, I'm actually really glad to run a podcast where, where people get to hear a, a different perspective. 'cause this is a very uncommon, if people wanted to learn more, get in touch with you, learn more about what you do, where would you send them?

Duane Simpson [01:04:02] Hey, you know, my, my LinkedIn account's probably most active, Dwayne, Dwayne j Simpson, there on LinkedIn, you can come to cfc.org. We have a podcast. It's called Cooperative Voice. You can find that on anywhere you, you subscribe to podcasts, you know, welcome, welcome people. Come in there, there, we talk mostly about cooperatives and, and agriculture. But you know, you, you can, you can find me. I'm on Twitter. If you go find my Twitter account, you're most likely gonna see me talking about football, Kansas City Chiefs and the, the very, very poor football team in, in, down at Florida State. But, you know, happy happy to engage with anybody on social media if they wanna reach out. I, you know, I, I, I am an open book. I, I love to talk to people and, and, and meet people and, you know, w would happily engage with any of your listeners.

Vance Crowe [01:04:52] Well, Dwayne Simpson, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Duane Simpson [01:04:56] Thanks for having me, Vance. It's been great.

Vance Crowe [01:04:57] That's gonna do it for this week's show. Thank you so much for joining us. As I said at the beginning, I have a book that's coming out about communications and negotiation skills for highly logical people. We're gonna play a quick video about people that have taken this course and kind of what they felt about it, how they, how this has changed them and what its impact is. If you are interested, you can both check out the book or consider coming to my interest based communications course. This is where we sit down for three days for an intensive class where you can learn about negotiations, about how to tell your story and introduce yourself in a way that's memorable, so that you can have better conversations deeper where people decide, you know, that is a great listener, somebody I wanna share more with. Or you can become really good at handling conflict, dealing with those tough, challenging situations that we don't know our way out of. And finally, one of the most popular parts of the class is the presenting section where I teach you some of the heuristics, some of the little tools that you need to make yourself both somebody worth paying attention to and somebody that can communicate an idea that changes people. Alright, we'll be back next week with another interesting interview.

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