A Fifth-Generation Oklahoma Rancher on Motherhood, Marriage, and Passing Down Values

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:00:00] Going back to my ancestors. I feel like that's part of the legacy is values and values of family and how you raise your children and what their beliefs are as the crow flies on the Vance Crow podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:17] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today I speak with Julie McDaniel, who is a mother and runs a cattle ranch out in the far extreme panhandle of Oklahoma. This is a desolate, dry, cold, hot place that is really harsh, but Julie has managed to build a family and a unit there that I admire from afar. She's married to my good friend Jared McDaniel, who runs the Ag Uncensored Podcast, and we sat down to just have a conversation about what is it to be a mother in this modern age while you're living out in a place that her ancestors have passed down for generations, well over a hundred years. So we have a fantastic conversation and I'm really excited to get to that. Before we do, I want to give you a just a heads up about some of the things going on with the Articulate Ventures Network at the end of the month, the last Sunday of the month, we are doing a book club, and we are reading the book 1984 by George Orwell. There is still time for you to finish reading that book, even if you order it right now or you start checking out the audio book. It is a wild read through the concepts of surveillance and, and people giving over their rights and freedoms and what happens when you push back on it. So we are gonna have a book club at seven 30 on the last Sunday of the month, and if you'd like to join that, an easy way to do it is just to send me a DM in Twitter, or you can join the Articulate Ventures network where you can get the event listings, you can get invitations to it, and you can always stay on top of it.

Vance Crowe [00:01:52] Another thing that you might be interested in that the network is getting into is over the next few weeks, we are having several virtual reality gatherings where we're gonna be doing different experiments. We're just getting together. It's people that have the equipment, or even people that just have a desktop, and they wanna see what does it look like in inside of a virtual world. So if you're interested in these types of exploration, not only of technology, but in ways to communicate with other people and how to interact in ways that we don't really have structures for the way to do it, then I would recommend joining the Articulate Ventures Network. If you're a type of person that's interested in this stuff, you will love all the people that you'll meet, the classes that you'll get to take, that'll teach you everything from how to be have better conversations, to how to upload videos to YouTube. We are having a great community that is building slowly over time. And if you're loving these interviews, you enjoy hearing people like Julie McDaniel talk about her things in a deeper way, then you will love the other people that have also found the Articulate Ventures network. So I will include a link below and make sure you click on it, and if you enjoy it, I think you will find something very valuable for yourself there. So now onto the interview with Julie McDaniel. Julie McDaniel, welcome to the podcast.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:03:11] Thank you Vance. So I'm excited to be here.

Vance Crowe [00:03:14] So you are a woman that has continued a family tradition of living on in Oklahoma ranching cattle. Yeah. What is the story with your family? Why in the world are you out in the middle of the panhandle or where in a part of the world where nobody even knows exists?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:03:29] Right. Well, you know, my ancestors wanted something new and different and had an adventurous spirit and had the courage to come out into this area. I believe in 1890, it was either 1890 or 1894 before Oklahoma West State and try something new, be different, you know, just try something that, do

Vance Crowe [00:03:52] You have any idea what they were doing before this? Like what would prompt somebody to go to this? Like what I view as like really harsh environment?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:04:00] Well, they came from a really harsh environment, so I have descendants from on both sides, from Germany, Mexico, Ireland. They came from areas where they were being oppressed and they wanted freedom to do their own thing and to at least just have the freedom to try to be successful and, and not be oppressed. So they came out and they had lots of hard work and dedication to make it work. So

Vance Crowe [00:04:34] That's, so just to set the scene, like I, I know you through Twitter and you're married to a good friend of mine, but you have some element about who you are and what you do that I find to be something that's magnetic. And my wife is about to have our first child, and I know that you are a mother of many children. You're a part of a blended family, you've had children. Yes. And I, I see the way that you raise their kids, and I see it's something different. And I, and I, so I just kind of wanted to bring you on and talk about what is it to be a woman living on the high drop dry plains of New Mexico, raising kids and, and living out a, a life where you are essentially the descendants of a, of a like five generations of, of cattle ranchers in Oklahoma. And that's gone. You know, if, if you weren't there, it just wouldn't exist as a part of the culture. So I have no idea where this will go, but I'm very interested in hearing about your views of being a woman and a mother and living out in the High Plains.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:05:33] Well, first of all, being a mother is hands down the most awesome, amazing experience of all time period. And I feel very fortunate to be able to be a mother. I know a lot of people struggle to become a mother, and so I have a lot of sympathy in that area, but being, becoming a mother is amazing. I'll never forget whenever I had my, my first, when I saw him, man, something just clicked inside of me and, and I knew that I was exactly where I was supposed to be. Is being a mama,

Vance Crowe [00:06:08] How old were you?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:06:09] I was 25. 25 was my first, and it just was, I can't explain it. I, I always say that he saved my life, and I mean that in a way that, so, so just to give you a little bit of a background, I have a, I was a major computer, computer Information Systems was my major, and I was getting my master's an MBA and, you know, I was just very much so I own my own business. I, you know, was very career driven, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not, I'm not coming down on that at all. But whenever I had Alex, man, it just, my priorities straightened up really quick. And I knew immediately that he was, he was, it, he was my life, and I just wanted to be around him and show him the world and show him his strength and help him discover the, the awesome, beautiful paths that you can take in life. And I just, I, I wanted to do that. And so I cut down on my hours. I actually ended up selling my house because I, I didn't like being away from him. And so I sold my house and moved into a tiny little rent house, but I could afford it and only work three days a week. And it allowed me to be with him more. And, you know, were

Vance Crowe [00:07:40] You married?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:07:41] No, Uhuh I was divorced and Wow. And, and I wanna be real clear that my ex-husband is a wonderful man. He's a very good man. We, we probably just should have never have gotten married. We were high school sweethearts and we're just the best of friends, and we honestly still kind of are the best of friends, but we just, we, I think we both just needed more from a marriage other than just friendship. And he's now married to a wonderful woman, but he and I, we split custody. So, you know, it was really important to me that Alex have his father in his life and, and he felt the same way about me. And so, anyway, so I was not married at the time, and he, I, I just decided to quit those things because I knew that he was my priority. What could be, what could possibly be more important than raising him to be a good man? There's nothing more important. When,

Vance Crowe [00:08:48] When I thought about doing this interview, I have to say that I've had more hesitation about bringing up the fact that I see you first and foremost as a mother. Not because I think that's wrong, but because in our culture there's definitely like a polarity around implying that women have to, or that that's some something that they must do. But in other cultures, when I lived in Kenya, for example, a girl was just a girl until she became a mama. Yeah. And once she became a mama, everyone referred to her as mama. It was a transcendent experience that put them within the fabric of the community. So when I was bringing it up with you, I was like, am I going to upset Julie? She's a smart woman. She's driven, she works hard, right? Is is calling her a mother first gonna be insulting?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:09:36] Absolutely not. No. I wear that badge of honor. Absolutely.

Vance Crowe [00:09:40] Why do you think in culture it is that way? Why do I feel that way, do you think?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:09:44] I don't know. And you know, I see that a lot too. It's almost like our culture has stopped putting worth on it, on being a stay at home mom. I've, I've got that. You know, Julie, why would you ever give up your own business? And it was a successful business, very successful. Why would you ever do that? To be at home, to just be a stay-at-home parent? The, the decision was incredibly simple to me, because that's what I wanted to do. And so I would do it, and I would do what it took to make it work. And luckily, I was raised by generations of, of people, men and women, to think for myself. And not necessarily what society tells me is right and wrong. I feel like a lot of society, it, it's where they place value is your career. And I have lots of friends who went down that path, and I was going down that path also. And, and again, I'm not coming down on career driven people at all. I'm really not. But there is a biological clock there. And I know so many of my friends have really struggled with that. When they finally decided, Hey, I wanna have kids, maybe there was some more difficulties that perhaps if they were younger, they wouldn't have had those. It's just,

Vance Crowe [00:11:09] Yeah. I mean, I feel, I feel straight up lied to. I mean, like, and it was entirely on me. I, I had all of the data, all of the information, all of the cultural emphasis, and I had, but I feel like I was convinced by society that this clock was really not that important. And if you decided you wanted to be a parent, that was just kind of a part of things. But once we made the decision that this was like going to be a fundamental component of us being married and of us actually being human beings by having this child, then once we'd made that decision, now we had to walk over hot effing coals.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:11:46] Yes. And

Vance Crowe [00:11:47] I I so to hear you describing this and having that knowledge early, I, I just, I I, I want to, without overstepping my bounds, tell other people that this is important.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:11:57] Yeah. Well, I, I do try to tell people that it's important. And I, and I just try to encourage that, in my opinion, there is no, there is nothing more important. I don't care what you do for a living, there is nothing more important than our children and our future and their belief system and raising them the way that you feel like they need to be raised. I had wonderful babysitters with Alex when, you know, I wasn't married and they were, they were sweet and wonderful, but they didn't necessarily share the same value system that I, that I do. And that's nothing against them. We were friends, but they were spending more time with my kid than I was. And so he was picking up their value system rather than mine. And going back to my ancestors, I feel like that's part of the legacy is values and values of family and how you raise your children and what their beliefs are. And that's, you know, my, my grandparents and, and their parents that was passed on generation upon generation upon generation of just your beliefs and the way that you see the world. And I wanted to pass that on. I don't want a another person passing their belief system onto my child. That's my job.

Vance Crowe [00:13:24] Do you think that, I mean, like, so in the one context of being in an Oklahoma cattle ranch where you're kind of far away from the rest of the world,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:13:32] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:13:33] It, it, it, it seems like time would move at a slower pace and that, and that oftentimes in the city, people feel like, well, we had the values of our ancestors, but those don't really apply here and now and in this context. Right?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:13:46] Right. What

Vance Crowe [00:13:47] Do you think, do your values apply because you're living in a slower place? Or are those people forgetting the values that their ancestors had?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:13:53] I think they're forgetting them. I think you can look around in society and see how losing touch with where you came from, what those value systems are, what those belief systems are. I, I feel like that's part of why our society is breaking. And when you don't have that basic anchor in your life to go back to and, and just to center you, I, I think it's really easy to get lost. And I feel like our society is lost in a lot of ways. There's good things that are coming in society, but I just feel like they, they really have, have lost those general beliefs. And, and instead of going back to what their, where their ancestors came from and what those belief systems are, they're looking at outside sources. And those people are lost too. So it, it, you know, it's the blind leading the blind. And I feel incredibly fortunate, incredibly fortunate to live on a ranch where, you know, yeah. The same values you, so that, like when we are working cattle, for example, Jared and I try to talk about perhaps maybe the way that our ancestors work cattle or the way that they, they ran them or gathered them or maybe some of the difficulties that they had to work around. And my kids get it. They can see it. They're doing, they are doing the exact same thing. Now, there might be some different technology involved or something like that, but the basic core, you know, the condition of the animal, the grass, you know, are they eating enough?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:15:32] Is it okay? Is it nutritious? They, our ancestors, were doing the exact same thing. And I love that they have that basic connection. 'cause they can always go back to it. Even if they choose to go off and live in a city, that's fine, but they will still always have that anchor and that, that general core that they were brought up on to, to fall back on.

Vance Crowe [00:15:55] Yeah. There's something about the, if you work in ag, you have to be more in tune with what is going on with nature. Like yeah. For example, when I looked into the weather, it's like, am I gonna wear sandals and shorts? Yeah. Or am I gonna wear jeans? Not does this have an impact on my life? Like, you know, like Right. But with, with yours, like the, it's not just the day-to-day weather that matters on and off. It's the overall seasons and where are you heading into and where are you coming out of? Right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:16:21] That

Vance Crowe [00:16:21] Seems to me to be like something you have to cover over in values, because otherwise, I, I don't know, there's something interesting about that raising a kid in that environment.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:16:31] Yeah. I think, and I think they appreciate life more. I think they, I think they see the how delicate it can be. And you know, this, we've, we talked about this the other day, but, you know, we were in a horrible drought and we got some much needed rain, which was amazing, and praise God. I mean, it was awesome. But we went, my son and I went and were checking the cattle and we found a dead one, and then four hours later we found another dead one. So what happened was that amazing rain, beautiful rain, which we're still very grateful for, had sprouted some seeds and had, you know, a toxic plant was growing somewhere in this field and in this pasture. And so we immediately called our kids, especially our older kids, and explained the situation, and we gathered them and moved them that day. And we just had to do it. And it was a very long, very trying way. Well

Vance Crowe [00:17:34] Explain to people that don't have cattle when you're saying, we went out and moved them. It's not like you went out and moved a bunch of puppies No.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:17:40] Where

Vance Crowe [00:17:40] You went out and moved a bunch of like animals that are like, we're gonna do whatever you say you're talking about. Right. Thousand pound beasts that Yes. If they decide to harm you Yeah. Or your children, they can do it. Yeah,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:17:51] Absolutely. They absolutely can do it. And you have to show strength. You have to show strength. You cannot, I'm not saying be mean, but you have to show strength that you will not overpower me. You do not scare me. And, and I think that my kids seeing me in that situation gives them strength. Like, well, gosh, if mom can do that, you know, I can do this. And I like to present myself in strong situations. I try very hard to show my kids strength and to help them to discover their strength. So when we are moving these thousand pound animals, you know, this is gonna sound funny, but I played college basketball, so I, I tell my kids, you know, get in your defensive stance. Make yourself as big as humanly possible. Get those arms out wide, you know, show this animal that you are a force to be reckoned with. And, and so, you know, we had to do it. And at the very end, we had a group that would not leave. This was 460 animals. They're going on two years old. And so they're kind of, it's like a big group of teenagers that you're trying to gather up. Yeah. And they don't wanna lo they don't wanna ma move or leave because it's this beautiful lush, green pasture. And, and they're loving life. They don't wanna leave there. And so anyway, we, we just had to force the issue just, and so I had to grab, I, at the very end, Jared, he's like, I wish I would've had my camera.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:19:31] But this group, probably about 15, they just were not, they were not gonna do it. And so I just grabbed a scraper, you know, kind of like a shovel, just a scraper off the back of the pickup. And I just, you know, went over there and I showed them that they, that they were going to move. And Jared said, gosh, I wish I would've recorded that. He said, those animals had seen that you had had enough, and they just went in. And so I think that there is a time and a place to show force, you know, I didn't have to hit 'em or anything like that, you know, I wasn't like abusing them in any way, but it's just, it's just showing dominance that no, I you will do this and you're moving today and you're going to do it now for the own good, you know? So anyway, but it was fun. It was a great experience.

Vance Crowe [00:20:27] I often talk about like the cultural divide that occurs between the city and the countryside, and that, and that, like, in some respects, you're talking about entirely different cultures as though they were in different countries because of the expectations of what you are responsible for if you're living out on the planes, versus

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:20:47] If

Vance Crowe [00:20:47] You're living in the city, you have to have so much more cooperation, right? So there's this weird dichotomy that seems like an imbalance, but one of the things that strikes me about it is like the values that you were talking about, it's not like you sat down and you're like, Hey, this is this book of a list of like 150 values that we're gonna pass on. The values that you're passing on are, this is what you need to know in order that you survive at all, let alone thrive in this environment.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:21:15] Right? Right. Yeah. And a lot of our values that we, that we do, like you said, is, is for basic survival. You know, if you were, if you were confronted by an animal that is threatening you, this is what you do. You know, we have tons of rattlesnakes around here that's very common. Learning how to deal with them, what you do, the, the proper way to act. I mean, I keep a, a shovel, a flathead shovel by my front door, and I kill snakes all the time. And that's just what you do. I mean, and I love the fact, I love the fact that my kids know that, you know, I don't call Jared to come home and kill, to kill something. I don't, I am com completely capable of doing that on my own. I have a little four 10 shotgun that I take care of things with. And, you know, sometimes we have strange people pull up to our house. And the thing is, is that our house is kind of hard to find. And so if someone is there and they didn't call before, that's, you know, they're lost or, you know, maybe don't have the best intentions. And so I've greeted people with a shotgun before and I'm not being rude. I'm just letting them know, Hey, I don't, I don't mess around. So what do you need? And we can move forward from here.

Vance Crowe [00:22:37] Well, that sounds exactly like the, the cattle thing that you were describing, right? Yeah. Like if you put on a face of being a slight little flower, they're gonna come over, you know, they're just gonna go do whatever they want. And, and you don't wanna find out after the fact

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:22:49] That

Vance Crowe [00:22:50] They were testing you. That's right. You wanna know, you want them to know right away that you passed the test, whether they're testing you or not. Yeah.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:22:56] Right. Right. I don't suffer fools. So, you know, state your business, what do you need? And not that it's rudeness, but I'm not gonna, I'm not here to play. So same way with cattle people,

Vance Crowe [00:23:10] You know, you were talking about sewing your children, like, Hey, we wanna talk about the dead cows, or we have to kill a rattlesnake.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:23:16] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:23:17] There's something like that seems like an opposing force with a mother that's talking about the first time I held my, my baby in my hands, it clicked and it changed my life.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:23:27] Yes.

Vance Crowe [00:23:27] With the making children confront the reality that life is not forever. Right. That's a like a loss of innocence in a way. Yeah. How have you balance that? How have you thought about exposing your kids to these rough elements?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:23:41] I think you're doing a disservice. If you don't, it's life, it's reality. I would rather them experience those things with me so I can help guide them through them than when they maybe go off to college or, you know, their first job or whatever, whenever they move away. And they, they have these questions in their hard questions. But, you know, maybe turning to a friend or someone else who, going back to someone who, if they don't have that basic anchor in their life, that one thing to bring them back to center them, I feel like that's my job as a mom, is to help them through that and to show them death. I was never shielded from death as a child. I remember watching several people that I loved pass away and being in the room when they did.

Vance Crowe [00:24:33] Really? Yeah. I've never, I've never, I've never seen that. I've only seen violent deaths. I've never seen a passing death.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:24:38] Okay. Yeah. So I watched my grandfather die. He had, he had smoked his entire life. And that was the first time I had actually watched somebody die. He, he was an, he was an amazing man. They, they came from Ireland and completely self-made man. He went on a first cattle drive him, and I think his 11-year-old brother moved cattle, like several miles. And his dad just sent him off. And I think his dad, or he was nine, and maybe his brother was 10 or 11, and they were moving like 200 head of cattle, you know, just crazy things. But he just, he lived his w life, he did it his own way. And, you know, he rolled his own cigarettes. And I, I helped, I won't forget, like he would be rolling them and he would, you know, he showed me how to do it and all of that. And he did a sign of lung cancer. I know, I know. But, you know, he lived his life this way.

Vance Crowe [00:25:39] But on some level, yeah, on some level that was like the color that makes him who he is, right? Yes. If you take the every blanket you have and you say, I don't want any stains in these blankets, then you take away all the incidences around

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:25:52] All the cool character from it. And so, you know, I just was never shielded from it. And I also wasn't taught that it was a bad thing. I mean, honestly, when you watch animals suffer, you learn really quick. There are a lot worse fates than death. And it's, it's brutal. And sometimes that's the mercy is death. And so I wasn't really taught to fear death. And I don't fear death, you know, if I die, okay, that's my time. I, I grew up, several of my friends have passed away. Like I said, I've been around people who, a lot of people who have died. And so it's just not something I'm very, I'm very comfortable with it, it's going to happen. I want to give that comfort to my children. It, it is what it is. And it's not something to necessarily fear, but while you are on this earth, you better live it up and, and, and make your mark. And even if that mark means passing good values, like to me, that's my mark is I'm passing my values and those good values, what I consider to be good values of, you know, a hard work ethic, treating people with love and respect, not tolerating bs, you know, not suffering fools, you know, showing your strength, but in a respectful way. That's my legacy. And I feel comfortable with it, with that being my mark. I, it makes me proud that I'm doing that.

Vance Crowe [00:27:25] When you think about your mark, that's, I really like that term. I probably start using that more because it, it's something, it's something more powerful than just your signature. It's, it's, it's your signature that transcends, it lasts into the future, even when you're gone, even when the buildings you put up are gone or the

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:27:42] Right. Right.

Vance Crowe [00:27:43] That's really interesting.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:27:45] Yeah. So I just, I've always felt like that is legacy. That was a legacy that was passed to me is, is your value system. And I don't, I don't know, maybe that's why death doesn't freak me out, is, is I know that I'm passing those on, and I know that my children will pass those on. And I know that it is just something that has continued through generation, upon generation, upon generation, and, and we're going to stick with it and we're gonna keep with it. And that makes me happy. It makes my heart happy to know that

Vance Crowe [00:28:17] It, it strikes me that leaving your mark is actually like art. Everyone's art. Yeah. That, that it's like, it may not have meaning other than the meaning that you can see in it. The meaning that it, like that it shares with other people that it, that it impacts out in the world. I've never thought about that. I mean, the reason I say that is because you're talking about your values living on through your children. And at this point, even if you were to pass away, you Yeah. Those will live on and they will pass on to their children. And that's a, that's a, it's, it's a's a humility that I think we don't get in the city, but I don't think it's because people are falsely modest or falsely humble. It's that they don't actually understand. It's harder to understand your place in the universe when you're a part of a city.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:29:04] Right, right. I, I personally don't like cities. I'm not coming down on anyone from a city. But man, I think I would just, I don't think people are meant to live in a concrete jungle. I think it messes with them and just needing that connection to the earth. And with nature, I, I feel like you learn about life from it and the, the way that, that, that there is a circle to life and, and that's okay. And it's good. And there's nothing wrong with it. Like, when I die, I don't wanna be embalmed or anything like that. I'm completely fine with being fertilizer for our land, you know? And that in some way, that brings me a lot of comfort to know that through me, other things will be given life and maybe through, in the same way with my children, through me. They have a value system that will hopefully keep them anchored their entire life. And then they can pass that on and pass it on. And like you said, like that's, that's my mark. That's, that's an art to shape and mold a soul to see life in a certain way and not become bitter.

Vance Crowe [00:30:19] Yeah. People don't really have that perception that you can talk about the soul and the, and that I, I do think that leads to people, because when you don't accept that there is some voice inside of you that is both wrapped into who you are, but also somehow distinct. When you deny that thing, then you don't really have a soul. It is separated from the body. And what you're trying to do is only in the physical world, it is only in your awards and your accolades and your what is going on right now. But when you understand the connection that you have a voice that is telling you to go somewhere, to manifest something in the world, you feel connected.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:30:57] Absolutely. Absolutely. And you, you also feel that, like I said, that when, when I saw my son for the first time, man, that voice was strong. And, and selling my house and giving up my job, or just getting rid of my job, all those things passed away really quickly. They, they held little to no importance. You know? Yes, I needed money, but I just needed enough to provide for my son and I, and I didn't need all that stuff. And I can't carry it with me. But, but the values that I place in him, yeah, that's where it's at. That's the importance. Do

Vance Crowe [00:31:39] You have a name for that voice? I mean that voice that we're talking about that both of us know, do you, do you, is it something you have a communion with that you can talk with whenever you want? Or is it something that only happens in these very intense moments?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:31:53] I feel like, well, my soul are my spirits. And then of course I, I have Christian value, so of course God. And, and also I, and I'm gonna get kind of, some people might think this is weird, but I do feel like there is something guiding me in either ancestors or, you know, a spirit, something that helps guide your way in life. There's something very spiritual about it. And listening to that voice and denying it, I don't know, it almost makes you, what's the proper word for it? It's like there's a void inside of you if you denied it. And it's not, it's almost like you're not living a whole life and understanding the whole picture of life. But yeah, just your soul spirit. I think just having that connection to it is, is very, very, very important.

Vance Crowe [00:32:57] You, you mentioned the circle of life and then the whole life. And it, it's funny. So when my wife and I decided we were gonna get pregnant, we had a long road to, to get down, to be able to make it happen. But the whole time I just kind of had like, like a, okay, well I'm just gonna keep going. I'm just gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep going. I wasn't really thinking about what I was doing or that there was a human life at stake or it, it wasn't really like that when we were in the middle of it. But the day that she called me to say she went to the doctors and the pregnancy had gone on long enough that she knew what the gender was, she then says,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:33:32] It's

Vance Crowe [00:33:33] A little girl.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:33:34] Oh.

Vance Crowe [00:33:35] And to me that was like, I had had this image of like a blob that was our child, right. But it wasn't like anything I could relate to. Right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:33:44] But

Vance Crowe [00:33:44] When you all of a sudden defined it has feminine energy as opposed to masculine energy, it would be a girl as opposed to a boy. Now all of a sudden it's realness snapped into place. And I had a picture in my mind of a symbol I had, maybe only seen once in my life, but it suddenly, and it was the snake eating its tail that the You're a burros. Yes. The, the beginning and the end, the alpha. Right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:34:07] You, and

Vance Crowe [00:34:08] I'm saying this and you immediately agree, right? Like, yeah.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:34:10] That

Vance Crowe [00:34:11] Was one of those things that I didn't expect that when we knew the child was coming, it came into existence. And so much about the world that was right in front of me became unveiled.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:34:24] Yes. So

Vance Crowe [00:34:25] As you're talking about these experiences, I relate to it, but like almost from behind a screen, like I haven't gotten there yet, but you make me very excited about it.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:34:32] Yeah. Just wait until you meet her. It's going to be amazing. It you are, you will love it.

Vance Crowe [00:34:39] What should somebody that has been like me has been a masculine guy hanging out with a lot of guys. I love women, but what should I know about raising a woman?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:34:50] I think, well, you should know that my dad, he raised me and honestly all of us kids to be strong. And my mom too. Like I said, we've a wi generation upon a generation of very, very strong people. And incredible willpower. I think, I think raising a woman, I think showing her her strength, it's almost, I think sometimes there's a stereotype that men, you know, get to be like masculine strong and you know, all of that. And maybe there's a stereotype that women shouldn't be that. And so I think perhaps the, that's why society rejects it and almost goes overboard the other way, where a woman has to swear. You come across women who are, it's almost like they are a rebellious teenager towards those feminist ideas. I think just teaching a woman or your daughter to, to have those soft touches. But man, love is strength. And I think women in particular have a real ability to love and a natural ability to love. And so much strength can come from that. And that is in no way a weakness at all. And tell

Vance Crowe [00:36:11] Me more about that. You're saying something to me that's, I understand on like a literature level, but I don't think I really get what you're saying,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:36:20] Right. The, the idea of loving someone. So for example, and I'm gonna reference my son, because again, I feel like he saved me in so many ways. Just that unconditional love that will never end ever no matter what. And that takes incredible strength, incredible strength. Whenever you are confronted with something that you don't like, it's so easy to say, I'm done with this. I don't wanna mess with this. But I think learning to love through that, even if you're super angry at the person or, or wanting to reject them, just having that deep seated love that is, that is never ending. And it drives you. So your actions come from a place of love. That is your motivation. And I feel like whenever you start to adapt or adopt those, that that way of life, it changes your entire outlook. Whenever you say, okay, love is my vote, my motivator, not necessarily revenge or not, the revenge is a good motivator. Although some people, it does motivate not revenge or power or money or fame, you know, my motivator is love. So what do you do with that? It changes everything. It changes the way you see the world.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:37:52] It changes the way you, you conduct yourself in your, in you, your business and the way you raise your children, you know, just changes everything. So my son showed me that

Vance Crowe [00:38:05] You, you, you have a marriage with a very good friend of mine, so I have like a weird view into it. But one of the things that I've observed about you that really resonates with me is that you are a worthy adversary for your husband. And I don't mean that in terms of like, you get to get him. Yeah. But like you are, every bit is strong in the ways that he is not. And the, and the, i I don't know how to describe that, but maybe you can describe it better. Like,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:38:30] Well, I think, I think showing love, going back to that loving spirit is, is challenging people, you know, calling 'em out when they need to be called out. You know, is loving someone, enabling them to do something that is harmful to them or hurts them in some way. I don't think so. So, or maybe allowing someone to, to talk a certain way or, or, you know, go present something in a way that you don't agree with. And it maybe just in silent on just for the sake of getting along. I personally don't think that that helps that person grow to be better. And so, and I was raised that way too. So I, I do challenge him. My mom challenges my dad all the time. My grandmother challenged my grandfather. I just, I think I'm surrounded by women that do challenge, but do it in a respectful way. Not in a mean way, but in a way like, Hey, you know, maybe you should rethink that, or here's a different perspective. And I think that Jared loves and respects that. I think that's a good thing. And if he didn't, then he wouldn't have married me. 'cause that's the way that it was from the very beginning.

Vance Crowe [00:39:45] Yeah. I think maybe that's another weird thing. So the other day, last night, I saw this weird graph that showed how people were introduced to one another. So like, where did couples meet? And it used to be, you know, a blind date. Did your parents set it up? Did you meet at work? Did you meet at a club that you go to? And so you have these lines and they start declining over time that that's not how people meet. That instead it's now people met online and that line went way up, right. That, that's how many people did it. And you find that, like, that makes me have this weird sensation because you, the algorithms are choosing how you're paired up.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:40:21] And

Vance Crowe [00:40:21] Maybe it's a good thing, but one of the things that can be overlooked, if you can find somebody that you like or connect with because you have the same interests, that's one thing.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:40:31] Yeah. But

Vance Crowe [00:40:31] It's a whole nother thing to find a person that is your opposite and, and like the equal opposite force that can

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:40:38] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:40:39] Somebody that you can

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:40:41] Yeah. Hustle with. So I'm a perfect example of that. I, like I said, I'm divorced. So I married my best friend. I mean, I did that and he and I are still, sorry, Vance. We have a

Vance Crowe [00:40:55] Train. I love it. I love it. Of course, there's a train. Keep going. There's no problem.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:40:59] But he was my best friend. We still are incredible friends. There is nothing wrong with being amazing friends with someone, but man, I don't think your marriage should be based on that. Just my personal experience. I did not. It was, and I love, I, his name's Joe. I love Joe. He is an amazing guy. But man, he deserved more and I deserved more too. We both deserved more from it. And, you know, having someone who challenges you, who inspires you, who brings that passion up in you, something that, that just, oh, it's like a fresh, a fresh breath of air. You know, just someone, you need someone who, who does that for you. And Joe is a great guy, and I think he would say the same about me, but it wasn't necessarily that way. He was very comforting and a wonderful friend. But like you said, the algorithms ba you know, pairing people up, I think they would've paired Joe and I up repeatedly. And that doesn't always mean that that's the way that that's gonna work out. Well, I need someone who challenges me. And as you know, Jared, he, he does that.

Vance Crowe [00:42:20] He challenges everybody. But I like the, the tension is what creates, like the, the symbol of the yin and the yang sign has a lot of meaning to me. And I'm sure there are other ways that you could construct it, but like, you know, the way that my own life has churn is because my wife will not let me stand still. Right. And it's not in terms of she wants me to go make more money or have a better house, like none of that. It's like she sees something in me, and if I'm not living up to it Yeah.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:42:49] She

Vance Crowe [00:42:49] Can't fake the fact that she doesn't see it. And so you're like, oh no, I've gotta get better.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:42:55] Yes, yes.

Vance Crowe [00:42:56] And your best friend will help you on that path, but never like the full tension of a partner.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:43:02] Absolutely not. No, because that best friend, to me it's a, it's a comforting thing, but maybe doesn't just push you and push you and push you. Jared definitely pushes me and I push him to think differently or, or to, you know, maybe consider things in a different way. But if it's, if it's coming from a place of love, you know, and I do have to remind Jared of that sometimes that

Vance Crowe [00:43:30] This is coming

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:43:31] From a place of love. But he could be. He has. So I think women in particular, so this is something else. You will have a daughter. I think women have the unique ability to really see the potential in a man. I really do. Especially like a man that she loves. It's like

Vance Crowe [00:43:55] You can see

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:43:55] Right past so many things and so many insecurities that they have. And you, it's almost like you filter all of that, that like insecurity, BS like immaturity maybe. And women, they see straight through it. And, and I, you

Vance Crowe [00:44:15] Were describing actually, my, my why, it's a weird thing to say, but it's when I think of having a daughter, right? That I had this like transcendent, the angels have come out, the euro burs has been split in half, and you can see the male and feminine energy.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:44:30] Yes.

Vance Crowe [00:44:31] Great experience. And then all of a sudden I came down from it and been like, but Vance, if there's karma in the world, you have a huge debt that you're gonna have to repay. Right? Because there were a lot of girls that I met along the way

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:44:46] That

Vance Crowe [00:44:46] They didn't see through my bullshit. Right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:44:49] And

Vance Crowe [00:44:49] I, and I would date him and it would not be a serious thing for me. And I did not, I didn't have an understanding that there's a soul there and a person trying to give you something that matters to them. How, like, I feel like my job from day one is like, I have got to show you how to see through the bullshit of somebody like me.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:45:09] Right. Am

Vance Crowe [00:45:09] Am I destined to like, have to repay this karma? Is this the way the world

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:45:13] Works? Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so, man. Yeah. Give her those skills. That's great. I, I feel very fortunate that my parents taught me that to just cut through that, cut through that stuff. And, and I think that'll be a wonderful skill that you pass on to her.

Vance Crowe [00:45:33] And if you don't, then you have to be the one that watches your own daughter get hurt by some asshole. Like you.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:45:38] Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think I put this on Twitter, but Jared and I, we knew each other in high school and, and we were friends. It wasn't that we weren't friends, but man, I thought he was kind of a jerk and, you know, just kind of the way he treated women. It was not, I wasn't really down with all of that. And so when he asked me on a date, I told him no several times, I don't want anything to do with you. You know? And my mom was actually the one that said, Julie, you know, people change again, coming from a place of love, people change, you know, second chances are important in life. And I've been given second chances too. And so to deny someone else, the, the chance to present themselves differently, you know, is an injustice in some way. So I did give him a second chance, but on that date, we sat at least 15, 20 feet apart the entire time. And, and I basically just grilled him the whole night. It was like a test, I think in many ways. But I just didn't wanna put up with, I didn't have time for that. I had a kid and I didn't have time for a bunch of nonsense and, and just someone who wanted to act like an idiot. I didn't really, I, I didn't have any interest in that. And so, yeah, that first date, I pretty much grilled him for five, six hours and, and he passed the test and then we move forward.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:47:11] So,

Vance Crowe [00:47:13] Have any of your kids started dating yet?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:47:16] Yes, they have. They have. So my daughter, our oldest daughter has a boyfriend who is very nice. She also does not suffer fools well. So she had previously dated a guy that, you know, just kind of brought some drama into her life. And she, I think she realized, eh, that's not, that's not the way that I want to go from now on. And so she recognized that. And, and so she's with a guy who, you know, very stable, very much so, has his head on straight. And she just doesn't suffer fools. She just doesn't, which makes me proud. So,

Vance Crowe [00:47:58] You know, like, you know, the, the two, two brothers that Jared and I know the Ring brothers or young guys, and they got married in their early twenties. Right. And, and as you're a mom, what do you think in this modern age, is it okay, do you know yourself well enough? Can you find a partner in your early twenties? Do you want that for your children or, or is that like ripe for decision, you know, mistakes? Well,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:48:20] I think everyone has to choose their own path in life. I think that's important. So if my child chose to do that, I would definitely, I think I would. So I got married at 19 to my

Vance Crowe [00:48:33] Oh, to

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:48:33] Joe. Yeah. So I was very young, and again, he was my best friend. I felt very confident that I would love him forever. And I do love him. It's not that I don't, he's an amazing man. He's just not who I should be married to. But I did get married at 19. And so I felt like, I would feel like if my children chose to do that, I would encourage them to hold off. I think there's a lot of maturing and changing that goes on, especially when you first, you know, go through college and get your first job and dealing things with, oh, like real life, like a mortgage and paying for health insurance and, you know, just learning those things and everybody navigates that differently. And I think the mistake that I made in my first marriage was he, Joe did not like taking care of that stuff. And so as his friend, I thought, well, I'll just take care of it 'cause he doesn't wanna take care of it. And then I think slowly I began to resent that, and I felt like I should have a partner rather than someone that I just took care of, you know? And it wasn't his fault. It, it wasn't, I completely put it upon myself to do it, but I wanted to be nice because he was my friend. You know? I wanted to help out my friend and my husband at the time. So I, I don't know, I would caution against that.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:50:07] I don't make that same mistake with Jared now, you know, if he doesn't wanna do something, you know, a lot of times we'll do it together because the job sucks and it's horrible and neither of us like it. But I, I don't think that, that that's necessarily a, a positive thing to just constantly say, I'll take it on. I'll take it on, I'll take it on. Because eventually you'll get tired of it and you'll get burned out. So, I don't know, you know, it took me a few more years to come to terms with that. But maybe some people, when they're 19, they already understand those things. I tend to learn lessons the hard way.

Vance Crowe [00:50:43] So Yeah, I think that's true. I think, I think the Ring brothers, when I think about like their work ethic and partnership and all of the things that they know, I had no idea about these things when I was in my twenties. It was like, Hey, we're gonna do it my way, or I'm just gonna bolt, you know? Right. Oh, and if you don't like it, I'm just gonna bolt. Yeah.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:50:59] And like,

Vance Crowe [00:50:59] That's not a partnership, right? That's a one sided deal.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:51:03] That is a one-sided deal. And so, yeah, I think everyone just choosing their own path in life. And I, and I try to put that into my kids too. And even Jared, I think we try to encourage each other that way too, is to discover new, interesting things and know that we are always behind each other a hundred percent. Even if it's not something that I particularly understand and interest that they want to pursue. They know at the end of the day, I've got their back and I know that they have my back. And it's just this awesome network and family that no matter what, you know, you have got this, this rock behind you that even when you don't believe in yourself or you are having doubts that you can lean upon this rock and you know that there, you have their support and love. Even if I don't necessarily agree with it all the time, I'm not going to reject them and they won't reject me.

Vance Crowe [00:52:08] So speaking of things that you don't agree with, like right now, as you look out in the world, what is something that you believe that you think the rest of the world doesn't see eye to eye with you on that, that you think like we're somehow off kilter here?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:52:23] I think the value of family and children, I think there is, I, I strongly disagree with abortion and I, I cannot wrap my head around, I cannot wrap my head around it. I just can't. I know that there are times that there are medical issues involved, and I have more sympathy there, but I think I just place such value in children, all children that just the idea of not allowing them to make, to make their mark on the world is just a huge disservice. And I think that it destroys people's soul a little bit. It it almost like it, it, it creates this void. Taking that from someone is just a, it's huge. It's huge.

Vance Crowe [00:53:21] When, when I was younger, I, I fortunately was never in this position, but I don't know that I would've had the foresight or the understanding. I mean, I was so disconnected from the voice that I talk about being wrapped inside of me that I would've said, if there's some voice that told me not to do it, it's 'cause it's the old antiquated way of looking at it. And I wouldn't have realized whether it's right or wrong in the fabric of society. I would never have known that I was giving away a piece of my soul. And I, I think that that's one of the challenges is you have people that are in a really tough spot

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:53:55] And

Vance Crowe [00:53:56] They don't, and they don't know what to do. And the wasn't until I was nearly 40 years old that I realized how much I wanted a child. And so there's, there's something there that I, I feel like our society, it's probably exactly what you started off by saying, like, this information can only be passed on to you by your ancestors,

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:54:16] Because

Vance Crowe [00:54:16] Society's answer is going to be something different than the tradition of old of, of, that we've learned over time.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:54:25] And society's answer is constantly also changing. And so, you know, the right answer may have been something, you know, different 20 years ago than it is today. And so there is no legacy to pass on. It is constantly changing with the way that people view the world or it, it's, it's constantly evolving and not always in a good way. So I, I don't know. I think people sell a little piece of their soul off in a lot of ways. You know, maybe making compromises with things that they don't believe in. And I, I recognize that I am incredibly blessed to be able to even say that. I know a lot of people, maybe with the job that they have or just the circumstances that they're in, don't feel free to speak their mind. And luckily, I have always spoke my mind and I've had the freedom to do so, and I have, I'm not not going to do it. I, I feel like if I, if I ever stopped doing that, I would lose a piece of myself and I'm not willing to do that. And so, but I'm willing to forego, you know, maybe having a big career or, you know, just different, different things. I'm willing to sacrifice those things to keep my compass, to keep me going in the direction that I feel like I need to be going.

Vance Crowe [00:56:01] Well, I can tell you with a hundred percent certainty that I would not be sitting in this chair had I not spoken with your husband. And he basically told me, if your goal is to be able to be free to speak to other people, then you can't be paid by one corporation for your opinion, because That's right. They are rightly in charge of, of what you say publicly. And so if you don't want them to be in charge of it, you have to give up the money. And it was, I remember where I was walking, I'll never forget it because that was when I was confronted with a reality that I always knew, but, but wasn't willing to face and he made me face it. And I think that that's the thing that allows people to get to the place where their voice tells them they need to be.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:56:43] Yeah, absolutely. And then having the courage to follow that voice and having a partner to encourage to, to follow that voice too. You know, I know people who have that voice and maybe their spouse is a little more apprehensive about it, you know, just having the courage and rightfully so. I, I am not even coming down on the spouse about that. But, you know, just having the courage and the faith to move forward and to do, to do it, to follow it. And to me, you, you will never regret it. Never. It's, it's an amazing thing to be able to be free and to be not, have, not allow someone to have their thumb on you. I've never liked that. I, I'm, I'd never want to be in that position to where someone has control over me. I just, I think I'd rather die. Honestly.

Vance Crowe [00:57:42] I think those are powerful words and I believe you in that. When, when you think about home, right? I, well, I maybe my, one of the challenges, so the other day I was talking with some people I'm really close with, and I was pointing out that if things start to get really bad in the cities, it might be a good idea to leave. Right? Right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:58:00] But

Vance Crowe [00:58:00] It was pointed out to me by my mentor, that's only true if the place you're leaving isn't your home.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:58:05] Right. If

Vance Crowe [00:58:06] It's your home, then leaving it is something you should take very, very seriously. It's not to say you should never leave your home, right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:58:12] But

Vance Crowe [00:58:12] That you, you stay and you, you fight for your home and you get involved before the battle becomes, becomes physical.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:58:19] When

Vance Crowe [00:58:19] You think about home, what is that for you? What do you want your children to feel and to know about the home that you and Jared are creating?

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:58:29] Well, when I think about home, I think about no man's land. You know, where we live. It's, it's a bit desolate and you know, maybe isn't for everyone, but

Vance Crowe [00:58:44] You're being very like, modest there. When you say desolate, it's, Jared sends videos. You can look in all directions and see nothing but horizon in every direction. And it's dry, dusty, hot fields or cold for that matter.

Julie McDaniel Mother [00:58:58] Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I love that. Like it speaks to me. It really does. And I find a lot of beauty in it. I know that that's strange, but I feel very much so a real connection to this area. The harshness of it. I love it. I think it's amazing. I think it creates strong people. You have to be strong to be here and you have to find your strength and you have to find that strength from a young age. And I think that's one of the most important things that a parent can show their child is where their strength is. And so this area, it's really easy to do that in because it is harsh. And so I think it molds and shapes amazing people and creative people because you learn to see beauty in things like desolate, you know, wind blown area. But being able to see for Miles, man, it just speaks to my heart and it brings me a very real sense of peace to see those things. And I would absolutely fight for this area. And, you know, no one else probably even likes it. And that's okay. It's, it's my little corner. But I also recognize that just like my ancestors that had to leave, you know, Ireland and Germany and Mexico and to go off and, and search for something else, again, you're home.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:00:35] You carry with you, even though I have a real connection to this, to this earth and the land and, and this area, if we move somewhere else, I would still carry that, those things with me and the things that no man's land has taught me, I would carry that. It would very much so be a place in my heart and would be forever. And I would try to pass that along to my children and hopefully their children's children, you know, my ancestors, they brought hardships and things that they learned from, you know, their countries and the things that they were escaping. They brought those with them and those value systems. And so, you know, home you carry it with you. Those the legacy of, of how you view the world.

Vance Crowe [01:01:20] I, as I'm hearing you say that I, I come to recognize why I, I really wanted to talk with you. It was definitely the voice telling me that you're, you're a form of, of the godmother that I would want my child to have. So This has been a wonderful recording because I think that, I think that it's too easy to not hold home that valuable. I think that it's easy to say like, ah, it's not that big of a deal, or, oh, things change or oh, whatever. And I think that that gives up something that's fundamental, that's core to we are a family and we wanna carry on this tradition and the legacy and the beliefs that we have. That, that to me is something deeply important and very, very rare I think in today's society. So I'm really glad you're willing to come on and share all this with me.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:02:07] Yeah, I I I wish that more people held that dear, you know, that family unit and that core that's gonna be with you forever. And to me, and I, and I tell Jared this, sometimes, you know, when you're on your deathbed and or you're, you know, you're thinking about your life when you're older, you know, whether or not you raise that amazing corn crop that time, that's really not what you're gonna be thinking about. You're gonna be thinking about your children and their legacy and how their life is and you know, whether or not you did a good job. And he is, he's an amazing father and I love him to pieces as anybody you know, knows from Twitter, but that those are your values. That's what's important and that's what you're gonna be thinking about. You're not gonna think thinking about, well I got that one cool promotion that one time and they all said, I did a good job. No one cares. You know, I know that sounds harsh, but no one cares.

Vance Crowe [01:03:05] No damn right. That's damn right. They don't even care if you were CEO once that part of the conversation's over, they don't care. Yeah.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:03:10] No one, no one cares. That's not a legacy. It's not a legacy that family unit. I feel like our society needs to get back to that. And I don't care if that family unit is, it, it really doesn't matter if you are, you know, a gay couple or even, you know, interracial. I don't care about all of that. I care about like how you guys are interconnecting with each other. Are you each other's support system? Are you challenging each other to become better?

Vance Crowe [01:03:43] Are you forging together two different traditions so that something bigger can tr can, can, can come together? Like, right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:03:49] And are you building something good? Are you making the world a better place? And like, what are you doing with your life and and challenging each other? I think that those are so important and I think it's so easy to, to just kind of like, oh, well, home is a stressful place and well, yeah, it's stressful. It's the most important job you have. Yeah. It's gotta be stressful and you've got to learn that it's worth it. It's worth it. And that's where you pour your time and energy and heart into. That's what it needs to be poured into. Not necessarily making sure a corporation makes millions of dollars because they don't care, they don't care about you.

Vance Crowe [01:04:30] I feel like a lot of the truths that you have are, are simple, but very difficult to look at. And I think that that requires a certain kind of person to be able to deliver those. If people wanted to stay in touch with you, if they wanted to get ahold of you. You mentioned Twitter a couple times, how would they find you?

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:04:47] Just look for me on Twitter, I think my handle is Julie M oh eight. I'm pretty sure that's my handle. Every once in a while I get rid of my Twitter account 'cause I get sick of it, but

Vance Crowe [01:05:02] That's good. And when it's there, it's there

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:05:04] It is. I have a tendency to, I don't know, I think social media is a good thing, but I think it can also become toxic. And so if I feel like, again, listening to your inner voice, you and I have talked about this, man, that's your guide, that's your compass. And so if that inner voice is like, you know what, you need to distance yourself from this, you need to get rid of this. So when I hear that, then I'm like, yeah, I'm done. I'm done with that. I'm not wanna do that. So you,

Vance Crowe [01:05:33] I I was gonna wrap it up, but you made me think something, I have a new theory that I call the Dunbar Social Media Theory.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:05:41] Okay.

Vance Crowe [01:05:41] So the, the Dunbar number is the number of connections that you can keep track of in a given community. So how many people can, you know, like, oh, they're in a breakup and oh, this is what's going on with that guy, and this is right.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:05:53] He,

Vance Crowe [01:05:53] His wife's getting sick and her dad, you know, just lost his job. Right? So I think that once you get over the Dunbar number, they say it's about 300 people you could add or subtract depending on who you are, how many social relationships you can track

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:06:07] That

Vance Crowe [01:06:07] Once you get over that number and the number of people that you see on social media,

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:06:11] You

Vance Crowe [01:06:12] Inherently view so much of what they're saying as noise that you let in voices and you care about things that you don't actually care about and you couldn't understand the context of. So it inherently overwhelms you.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:06:24] Right, right. Yeah. And that's, and it's unhealthy too, because if you are on social media and you're worrying about, like you said, like these, these things that are silly or affect you in no way, or you would have no way of even helping that person, particularly with through those issues or what you said really wouldn't even matter to that person. What are you sacrificing in your real life? And maybe in real life you would have a friend or even just an acquaintance that you really could help. You know, are you, where are you putting your love and energy? Would it be better focused in a different place? I I tend to think that social media is great, but I, I also think that personal interaction with someone, even just like at a grocery store just to check out, you know, just gathering that, that taking the five minutes to maybe just ask someone how their day is and then just be genuinely interested and really talk to them. I think that that can make a real difference.

Vance Crowe [01:07:32] Well, Julie McDaniel, this has been a great pleasure and I love, love, love, not only the sound of your voice, but what you say. And so I'll definitely have you on if you'll come back on again.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:07:43] Absolutely. You bet. Anytime.

Vance Crowe [01:07:45] Well, thanks for joining me.

Julie McDaniel Mother [01:07:47] Yes.

Vance Crowe [01:07:48] Well, that's gonna do it for this week's interview with Mother and Cattle Rancher, Julie McDaniel. I want to thank her so much for coming on. I really did not prepare her at all for the conversations that we were going to be having. And we were talking about the very fundamental core of life. What is it to be a mother? What is it to raise a child? How do you keep a daughter going on the upright path when you feel like you have some karma to repay? What a wonderful conversation. If you're interested in having deep conversations and exploring the way that other people see the world, how they understand where their place is in it, and when they're asking questions to get feedback and advice about how you've navigated not just communications or technology challenges, but how to think about things out in the world. Then you might enjoy the Articulate Ventures network. I talked about it at the beginning of the podcast, so I'll leave it there. But I just wanna say, if you're thinking about it, just come join for a month or so. And it's one of those things that when you check out what's going on and you see what's all available to you, you realize this may be the type of community that you've always wanted, but could never get to, could never make the time for, or could never in integrate into. And this community is a really interesting one. So even if you've never been the type of person that's joined a community, I'm making this call out now that if you're enjoying, if you've listened all the way to the end of this podcast, this may be a network for you. So check out the link below and remember we've got that 1984 book club on the last Sunday of the month at seven 30. And if you're interested, either join the network or send me a DM on Twitter.

Vance Crowe [01:09:22] Thanks so much and we'll be back next week with more interviews.