FBI Informants, January 6th Prosecutions, and Government Surveillance with Julie Kelly

Julie Kelly [00:00:00] I thought the overreaction was absurd. A lot of different things were happening at different vantage points at different times on January 6th. But I would say overall, the government and the people who were in charge are ultimately responsible for what happened. Howdy. I'm Hannah Newin Schwer, a production lead at a soybean seed facility in central Illinois, and you're listening to the Vance Crow podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:00:28] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today we sit down with my longtime friend, Julie Kelly, longtime listeners of the podcast. Might remember when I had Julian during the COVID epidemic, and I got more hate from that podcast than anything else I have ever put out after having Julian people talked about how could I platform this person that I was a eugenics, that many of the things that she was saying were totally off the rails. But if you go back and listen to what she was talking about during COVID, I dare say she was even more appreciate than Alex Jones on a lot of things she knew about what states should be doing to stand up for themselves, pushing back on a lot of regulation. It is a fascinating interview, and I can say that one of the reasons that it is difficult to have Julie Kelly on is because I'm afraid that she is definitely on lists. She is probably going to be audited by the IRS, somebody from the FBI will probably knock on her door one day unexpectedly and lead her away to ask her some questions. And I mean that seriously. I think Julie really pushes the envelope, and I think we are in for a very interesting conversation. We're gonna get to that in just a moment. But first, I wanted to talk about an experience with Legacy Interviews that recently happened. A woman called me up that said her friend's father had just been given a diagnosis of cancer and he only, he was trying to get all of his things in order and wanted to know if we could do a legacy interview remotely.

Vance Crowe [00:01:59] We ended up talking to the family, we set something up, and we've now done three different sessions with that family in order to be able to capture his memories, the things that he wanted to be recorded about his land and the ranch that he's run. And he wanted to talk about what he thinks his grandchildren can accomplish. And I think that his legacy interview is a powerful testament to how important it is to pass stories down so that future generations know where they came from and what is possible for them to do in this life. So if you're interested in having me record a legacy interview, either in our St. Louis studios, or if it's best to be done online, go to Legacy Interviews dot com to find out more. Alright, without further ado, let's have Julie Kelly on. Julie Kelly. Welcome to the podcast.

Julie Kelly [00:02:48] Hey, Vance. I, I think I was trying to remember the last time that we did talk, and I think it was during the early stages of COVID, so

Vance Crowe [00:02:56] Oh yeah, it was during the lockdowns.

Julie Kelly [00:02:57] I'm glad you brought that up.

Vance Crowe [00:02:58] Yeah. You were talking all about how's, right, how like, because at the time there were, there were, Florida was talking about blocking their state from people coming in. And then you were down there and there weren't mass mandates. And I remember you were sitting outside and there was like an open air and you were like, people are moving around in Florida, unlike other parts of the country. And it was something that people had just not seen online. The regular news was not portraying this. And I think that that's actually where you really fit, is where the news is not talking about what's going on in the world. And one of the most important stories that you've been shedding light on is the Michigan Governor Whitmer kidnapping plot started by the FBI. So to start off, maybe if somebody had not heard at all about this, how would you even explain this crazy situation?

Julie Kelly [00:03:47] Right? So this sort of has percolated as an issue, at least in the Republican presidential primary, because as you know, Vik Ram Swami has brought this up and he brought it up to a CNN reporter who really fought back on the idea that it was an FBI entrapment scheme. Well, of course we know now, and especially in light of what the FBI is capable of, and you and I will talk about that, I'm sure, especially related to January 6th, is that what the FBI did is concoct a kidnapping assassination scheme for Gretchen Whitmer and the governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam, who Donald Trump at the time, after lockdowns, like April, may of 2020, was starting to say, you might recall liberate Michigan, liberate Virginia. And so the FBI put this together, stitched this group of men together who had protested at the Capitol who were online talking about witmer's really severe ongoing lockdown policies. And the FBI ran at least a dozen informants known as confidential human sources into this group, lure these men into this trap, set up various events, field training exercises, a militia conference, if you can believe it or not, that some of them attended in June of 2021. Man had already been on the FBI's radar screen since 2019. So they stitched this random group together using 12, at least 12 undercover, or excuse me, 12 informants, at least three undercover agents, numerous supervising agents out of multiple field offices.

Julie Kelly [00:05:28] This was known as a terror enterprise investigation. But Vance, it was none, nothing like it. It was one of the most extensive expansive FBI entrapment operations in decades, which resulted in the arrest of 14 men, six who faced federal charges, the arrest, who faced state charges. And we could talk a little bit the outcome of those trials, but I followed this extensively. I have a relatively new piece up on real clear investigations where I write that sort of details, well, not details, it could be a 20,000, it could be a book and it should be a book, but at least we'll give people sort of an overview of what that FBI entrapment operation looked like.

Vance Crowe [00:06:08] Yeah, it's still crazy to think about that your own government could send people out and, and not just be like, Hey, we're gonna have these people show up at these gun shows, or we're gonna show up at these public meetings and kinda watch what's going on. But according to your article, which I would recommend to everyone go read it is so expansive. I really had no idea how much detail there was to know about this. But they actually were saying, Hey, come on guys. I got an idea. Maybe we could go do this thing with, with the governor. Hey, maybe we should get training for this. And like, they definitely took people that were, you know, I, I think disenfranchised with their government that were definitely saying like, Hey, something's gotta change. And pushed them down the path of doing something that that way they could get arrested for it.

Julie Kelly [00:06:57] That is exactly what they did. Not only did they exploit anger about Michigan's lockdown, they also exploited anger about the George Floyd riots. So this militia conference that one of the lead FBI informants organized a longtime felon, by the way, including convictions for sex with minors. I mean, a lot of these informants are really degenerates that our government should not be using in any capacity, let alone paying them cash to do this sort of thing. He organized a militia conference the weekend after the Floyd Riot started, and this was outside of Columbus, Ohio, where as you probably recall, there were a lot of protests and rioting in that city. So not only were they exploiting the anger about the lockdowns and then George Floyd, but Vance, these informants were paying to get these guys stoned, taking them to get them drunk. The informants were also getting drunk with their targets, which is violates FBI pro. I mean, they violated basically every FBI protocol that there is for informants because there's no way, there's no accountability to this informant program. $45 million a year. Our government pays in cash only to informants across the country, really across the world. But this is what they're doing. But the reason why Vance is because the FBI wanted to use this to denigrate Donald Trump before the election. The arrests were announced in October of 2020. Another example of the FBI, just like Russiagate, getting involved in a presidential election against Donald Trump.

Julie Kelly [00:08:34] You had Gretchen Whitmer go on this victim, you know, cable news circuit writing editorials about how Donald Trump is trying to instigate domestic terrorists to take out his political rivals. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris talked about it on the campaign trail, especially in Michigan, a key swing state. This was all orchestrated and the timing executed by the FBI to make this really a key campaign issue the last month before election day. So who knows how many votes were swayed, especially in Michigan because this was such a big story there. And now is the trials commenced. And this is really the most important part. You had state and federal trials, half the men who went on trial were acquitted, found not guilty amid this FBI entrapment scheme. Two men were convicted after a second trial, which I talk about in my article in other reports, a second trial in Michigan where the judge really did everything he possibly could to help the DOJ get those convictions after a second trial. So this is a huge defeat for the government. And the reason why is because these jurors saw right through this FBI entrapment scheme, the two men convicted at the federal level. Now that's on appeal. Those appellate briefs have been filed on both sides and the government and the defendants have asked for oral arguments. So I'm hoping that that will, you know, take place sometime, perhaps this summer in Michigan.

Julie Kelly [00:10:07] Now, it's also important, a New York judge just released the fourth member of what they called the Newburgh four. And these were men ENT trapped by another informant to make it look like Muslims wanted to blow up Jewish community centers in an air force base. And this was all to help promulgate, you know, fuel for the first war on terror. These men were arrested in 2009 and this judge blasted the FBI. So these men had no capability. They were targeted by the FBI, they were lured into this plot by this longtime FBI informant. They, they never would've done any of this without the help of the FBI. Now, four of those men finally released on appeal amid another example of FBI entrapment. What else is our FBI doing aside from setting up entrapment schemes to advance political agendas, which we know that FBI director Christopher Ray certainly has,

Vance Crowe [00:11:05] Well, it's like really truly scary to think of the FBI as becoming so self-righteous, believing that like whatever political agenda they're supporting would allow them to do these things that would, would radically alter a person's life. Just the accusation alone of being involved in domestic terrorism would be horrible. But then to actually send people to prison, like it, it, it boggles the mind. So of the Whitmer people that have, have been convicted, what's the status with them? Are they in prison right now?

Julie Kelly [00:11:39] So you had 14 men arrested, six faced federal charges. Of the six, two men pleaded guilty including one right before trial started. Of course, that's what the DOJ does. They pressure individuals threaten to add more charges. You're gonna spend a lot more time in jail if you don't plead. So six men, two of them pleaded guilty, testified for the government that did not go well for the government. Two of the men, so four men faced trial in March and April of 2022. After four days of deliberation, the jury in southern west, southwestern Michigan came back fully acquitted two of the men on all charges. The other two men, Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr. Had a hung jury. So one holdout juror were told, the government immediately came back, said they were gonna retry those two individuals, which they did in August of 2022. As I said, the judge realizing what happened in the first trial, making sure that the jury would be prevented from hearing more information about the FBI's involvement, really put, I call his whole body, not a sum on the scale that resulted in the convictions. Those two men events were then sentenced to 19 and 22 years in prison. They are both in super max prisons with legitimate terrorists, some of the worst criminals in the country. These two men are now in Supermax prisons cut off from their family and now their a appeal criminal appeal attorneys.

Julie Kelly [00:13:19] And so that is the punishment these two men have for daring to go to trial. Had they not gone to trial. And we could talk about this in January 6th too, had all these men pleaded out, we never would've known about this FBI entrapment operation. So DOJ is punishing those men. Then you go to the other eight individuals.

Vance Crowe [00:13:40] Well wait, wait, you said something really interesting. You said that when they use the people that pled on the stand, it didn't go well. What happened there?

Julie Kelly [00:13:49] Right. So you had two of them who took the stand and under cross examination from the defense attorneys, it became very clear, number one, that they were coerced into plea deals. Number two, that they changed their story from what they told the FBI after they were first arrested to now the story that they were telling on the stand, which was they were blaming at first, they had blamed the lead informant, Dan Chapel, for bringing this group together, coming up with a kidnapping plot, driving the targets who had no cars to the surveillance, what they called reconnaissance mission near Gretchen Whitmer cottage. Keep in mind, Gretchen Whitmer knew about this for months. Her staff and her, they were in communication with the FBI, they allowed pole cameras to be installed around her property so they could capture evidence as the FBI. Informants and undercover agents drove these guys to her summer cottage, which was supposed to be the scene of the kidnapping crime. So she knew about it too. She was never in any danger except that these FBI informants really could have took, taken this to a whole different level if they were dealing with men who really were capable of doing something like this, which they weren't. Anyway, the two men who pleaded had changed their stories. The defense attorneys basically busted them for changing their stories, getting sweetheart, you know, sentences in exchange for their testimony. Obviously the jurors did not believe the two men who then were government witnesses in the second trial advance the, the judge actually limited cross-examination of one of the government witnesses, one of the guys who pleaded guilty that is now part of the appeal of Adam Fox and Barry Croft jr's conviction.

Julie Kelly [00:15:36] So I know it sounds complicated, but I always say until you understand what the FBI did in the Whitmer Fed napping hoax, I call it, you cannot possibly come to terms with what the same department did related to the events of January 6th. So it's just such a useful backgrounder, I think.

Vance Crowe [00:15:55] Well, as I hear this, you know, my, the, the little voice in my head says, okay, maybe some of those guys weren't guilty, but were there some that were preparing to do this? Do you, do you have any sort of sense that some of these guys are not good people, that, that the world is better having locked them away?

Julie Kelly [00:16:14] Well, you know, that's always the argument and I think it's a very legitimate question. I mean, I've said, you know, some of these guys are not exactly the guys that you would want living next door to you, but they're extremely passionate. They were very passionate against the lockdowns, you know, but by August of 2020, this group was splintering because they really didn't get along. They really thought that Barcroft Jr, who was the oldest one involved, who'd been on the FBI's radar for a while, saying anti-government, anti-authority posts on social media. So they were starting to kind of fall apart. Well then the FBI runs in more undercover agents, including an alleged explosive expert, and get this Vance in September of 2020, the FBI's desperate to keep this plot together. They run this other undercover agent in, he is the explosives expert. He says, I can get you the material, we could build a bomb. We're gonna blow up the bridge outside of her cottage so the police can't get there. We're gonna kidnap her. We're gonna get this van put her on a boat in Lake Michigan in October of 2020. These guys didn't even have like a house to live in. I mean, some of them, Adam Fox was homeless, living in the basement of a vacuum repair shop in Grand Rapids. They're gonna put her on a boat in Lake Michigan in October. That would be a good trick. We're Midwesterners, we know how pretty cold. That's impossible. So this undercover agent shows them a video of an SUV blowing up. So he has legitimacy.

Julie Kelly [00:17:46] The video was made by the FBI, this is the same thing we just saw in the Newberg case as well. They manufacture or fabricate these plots from start to finish, including making videos of blowing blown up Tahoes so they can convince their targets that they're legitimate. It's a crazy story,

Vance Crowe [00:18:06] Story. I mean, it's so crazy. And it's one of those things that, as I hear you say this, you think if they're willing to do that, then what else would they be willing to do? As you've done the stuff with the, the Whitmer kidnapping, all the stuff you did around January 6th, are you worried that somebody's gonna knock on your door and, and take you away for questioning?

Julie Kelly [00:18:27] I mean, I think anyone who is out there vocal against this government, especially Department of Justice, surely is under some sort of surveillance. I'm, I'm quite sure that I am, and all the journalists and other, you know, influencers on social media who not just cover my work, but ask a lot of other questions, whether it's about COVID and now to your point, what we talked about earlier, all of what we were told at the beginning was a lie. You know, the whole origins of it, the now Anthony Fauci comes out and says, oh, six feet of social distancing. We never really knew where that came from. You know, masks, vaccines, everything. So anyone who challenges this government, this regime, the Democratic Party, and certainly the administrative state, which really is in control, you are gonna be on a list. So we kind of joke around my house, like what our escape route is. If the FBI is not a escape route, you know, my, my husband's like, okay, we're we have to protect the dogs. Like what are we gonna do with the dogs? So we kind of joke about it, but we know what this FBI and this government, we saw it with social media in 2020, as you know, where the government was in cahoots with big tech to suppress information about the Biden family to suppress information about, you know, possible voting fraud. And so this is, this is nothing new. And unfortunately it's accelerated because no one has paid a price for unlawfully the government unlawfully being in cahoots with especially private interests to suppress free, free speech and political activity.

Vance Crowe [00:20:07] Yeah. And it's wild that the media, the more, I guess more traditional media, maybe we should just say that, that you are the media, but the traditional media isn't at every single turn saying, excuse me, alright, who was the person that made the six foot designation and told everyone this? Okay. And at what point did you guys find out that there, that, that this was not actually scientifically back. Okay. And who said this thing about the way masks work? Okay. And why aren't we bringing all of those people up? And at a minimum recording how it happened, but more than likely, why aren't they being prosecuted? No one in everyday life gets to make mistakes on that level and not pay a price for it. And yet the media isn't calling anybody to task and there's no, you know, report or trial or anything about the people that, that did these really crazy things to American culture.

Julie Kelly [00:21:03] It's so frustrating, Vance. And I think if, you know, especially what happened with COVID and the Lockdowns and Anthony Fauci and Deborah Bs and their bogus data, which I think was something you and I talked about initially, these models that were being created based on untested data, that no one knew the validity it was coming out of China and then Italy. Well, you know, you've been in the scientific community your entire professional life. You don't just take data like that, plug it into some made up model and then say, oh, we're gonna have 2 million debt of COVID. You don't take what was really an eighth grade paper about the benefits of staying six feet apart during some sort of pandemic and turn that into federal policy that resulted in the destruction, permanent destruction of businesses and other venues, certainly our children still paying the price for schools being shut down, grade schools, high schools, and certainly universities still paying the price. Now we're seeing the results of that. How far behind American students who were already behind are now so much further behind. And then you have the gall of someone like Randy Weingarten pretending that they never authorized the shutdown of schools. Of course you did. You have all of these experts now who the media, to your point, unflinchingly echoed what they were saying did no deep dives into the alleged data science that we were told, which was all bogus.

Julie Kelly [00:22:38] And now these same people are backing away. And the real frustration is who is going to pay the price? Anthony Fauci should be in jail, so should Debra Berks, you talk about a conspiracy to defraud the United States like a charge that Donald Trump is facing for January 6th. These people, evil people intentionally lying to the American public who trusted them and resulted in so much catastrophic permanent damage. I have compared it to one of the worst decisions that I blamed Donald Trump for this to one of the worst decisions outside of declaring war, what happened early in 2020, and the people that we put our trust and really control of the American economy and everything else in these total liars and frauds and scam artists. Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:23:32] I mean, control is absolutely right. Like we allowed so much of the local decisions to be made by this like giant federal government that was saying what you could and couldn't do. I mean, and I have this very strong sense that so much of this will get memory hold. I mean, I have specifically saved every single podcast I did during CVID, you know, on a separate server to be stored away safely because like these things happened. And it even just two years later, it's hard to remember how it all played out and what did we know and how there were people saying like, no, you can't force me into a mask. Like, no, you can't tell me that I'm not allowed to leave my house. And yet the insane in numbers of people, like the things that people said to me on Twitter when I would say, I don't want my daughter to only see adults with masks on, I'm not gonna do this. I mean, the things that people said to me were some of the grossest, darkest things I'd, I'd ever, you know, they're cheering on the tyranny. And so if we don't have a, a record of us going back and saying, all right, you need to pay a price for your tyranny, then it will happen again.

Julie Kelly [00:24:45] And I think that that is how a lot of people feel. And I was with you, as you know, from day one, I think my first article opposing the initial 15 days to slow the, it was March 19th, 2020, and the title of it was Dangerous Curves. And it was like, this is not how this goes. And I think most shockingly advance is the scientific community, doctors and academia and the scientific world and medical community who embrace this without a single thought of the other human consequences of what would happen to our children, letting people die alone without their parent or their spouse there, the inhumanity that was exposed during C-O-V-I-D-I think, and to your point, the comments that you got, the comments that I got, you're a grandma killer. You know, you're evil. You should be, you know, I would wake up and open my Twitter and expect it to be suspended because of what I was writing at the time. I called for Donald Trump to remove Anthony Fauci and Deborah Burkes from that White House Coronavirus task Force in April of 2020, as soon as they called for the extension of the shutdown through March, excuse me, through April. And I said, he needs to remove these individuals. They are dangerous. And so I would wake up and wait to, you know, for the account suspended, because as you know, at the time, they were de platforming people like crazy.

Julie Kelly [00:26:17] And then when I started challenging the masks, especially the vaccines, that too, so thankfully now with Elon Musk in control, we don't have to worry on the right about having our account shut down because we're seeing something contradictory. But at the time it was very nerve wracking because we really felt like those messages, the handful of us who were opposed to it, those messages had to get out. I'll tell you, I'd never lost more sleep than those early days of digging through what actual data existed. And that was flu data and hospitalization, because outside of a few cities, as you know, the hospitals weren't overblown with COVD cases. So anyway, it was a very scary, dark time. And unfortunately, will there be a COVID reckoning? I think the big chance to do it was 2022. And look, fans, every governor who shut down their state from Gretchen Whitmer, the Democrat, Phil Murphy in New Jersey, Mike DeWine in Ohio, who had very harsh lockdowns for a Republican, every single one of them got reelected and some by big margins. That was the chance to get rid of the people responsible for what happened during COVID. And it didn't happen.

Vance Crowe [00:27:39] One of my big lessons from COVID, you talked about the scientific community really kind of failing us, right? They, they got in lockstep with the media. So did the doctors, is the danger of professional organizations and professional accreditations, because these people are given the right to work because their professional certification says, okay, you're allowed to be a medical doctor, you're a part of this, you know, group of scientists. And what they, those groups did was they said, Hey, anybody that talks outside of this accreditation, we're gonna ruin you. And we didn't know how this would all play out, like all those soldiers that were bumped out of the military because they didn't want to get vaccines. All of the scientists that would say like, Hey, I'd like to tell you more about things like ivermectin or what I know about masks, but I'm, I will lose my license the way that I feed my family. And you know, I I I think that professional organizations should be something we take a cold hard look at because we don't want centrally controlled one way to look at problems, one way to fix them. And that's what those organizations are doing.

Julie Kelly [00:28:47] I think that's such a good point. And that is something that I think at least congress or state legislatures can look at where this grant funding went, what their support is of these professional organizations, whether it's tax exemption or whatever. But when you have medical, powerful medical groups, I think it was the obstetrician groups that came out and recommended that pregnant women get an untested vaccine. And they pushed that, and now we see what happened. I mean, that to me was the height of irresponsibility recklessness. And then I think it was the pediatrics association that came out and said, children two years old and older should be getting these experimental vaccines. How in the world can they possibly look at themselves in the mirror not knowing? And now you see these health cons, you know, health problems that people are having, especially young people. You had girls, I know just anecdotally, my neither one of my daughters got the vaccine, even though they, one was high school, one was college. We did everything we could to get those exemptions and fought really hard. But her friends right away in college were already complaining about their changes in their menstrual cycles immediately right after the vaccine. Who knows what that's gonna mean for these girls as they get older and want to plan a family and the medical community.

Julie Kelly [00:30:19] Ha have they done any other follow up to that? Okay, we forced vaccines on our young girls. We saw immediately complaints about their physical condition, their changes in their menstrual cycles. Are we now looking back three years later to see what's happening with those young girls? Are there any tests being done? The scientific community, are they stepping up to make sure that the recommendations that they made are not having detrimental, you know, irreversible health consequences on young people? To your point, been completely memory hold, don't even talk about it. There's no information out there whatsoever.

Vance Crowe [00:30:57] I mean, can you imagine somebody applying for an NHS grant or you know, a grant from a government agency to be able to run these kinds of tests? There's just, there's no chance that those things would happen. That's right. And if somebody out there knows, like, no, no Vance, you're wrong. Look at all these studies that are getting funded, I'd happily see them. But I, I strongly sense that just like we still don't have, I mean, you would think that the Wuhan lab would be under unimaginable scrutiny, absolutely unending every single moment of every single day, people pounding on the door to say what exactly happened, who did it, who knew about it. And it's, it's just not happening. And it's because, I don't know, I mean, like the easy answer is that we're living in clown world and I oftentimes wonder, is it that the people are totally incompetent, or is it that they are driven by some sort of a narrative and some higher like 3D chess game that I just, I just can't possibly understand?

Julie Kelly [00:31:56] Well, I think in 2021 of it, you know, anyone who suggested that this was manufactured in the lab was called a conspiracy theorist. Now, everyone who was called a conspiracy theorist early on ends up being actually the person who exposes the truth. And so when Rand Paul or someone bring, brought that up in 2020, or at least wanted to investigate it, he was just vilified by the media and everyone else, Democrats and Republicans calling him a conspiracy theorist. I think that they took down even something he wrote at the Washington Post or New York Times about it. But in 2020 recall it was really important, especially in these swing states, to make sure that the pandemic panic continued through the election because that is what enabled all of these long-term Democratic party preferences of how to vote. You know, same day voting, absentee, the ballot harvesting things that Democrats have wanted for a long time. And so this, the extension of the panic really enabled these extremely lax voting rules the Democrats have wanted for a long time and obviously benefited Democrats. So, and you had key swings states, several of them, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, who were, had Republican, or excuse me, democratic governors who instituted a lot of this. So you can't really separate the COVID panic, especially towards the latter part of 2020 with its ties to the election.

Julie Kelly [00:33:32] But Vance, what do we do now you've gotta, you know, DO J's not gonna investigate any of this. So who is, you know, if Donald Trump, you know, not to be political, but if he wins the presidency, what's he gonna do? Investigate himself for what happened early on

Vance Crowe [00:33:50] And

Julie Kelly [00:33:50] Just,

Vance Crowe [00:33:51] Yeah, you know, I was, I spent the weekend with a little bit of, the little bit of time I have with two young girls looking at some videos of the way that mainstream media portrays January 6th. Because really, and like I know I'm talking to somebody that has spent a lot of time and energy on this. I kind of saw it from afar when it was happening. A few days later, my dad and I talked on the phone and he was like, did you see what happened? And I was kinda like, I don't know, it seems like it's kind of a bigger deal than it is. But then I watch these videos and they're of huge throngs of people beating police with batons and people spraying stuff and banging on the doors. Gimme a rundown now that you've spent so much time and maybe give a little bit of background on how much time you have put on this, what, what happened on January 6th and how is it that there is so much footage that makes those people look like they really were banging on the doors and about ready to take down the capitol?

Julie Kelly [00:34:51] So I always say January 6th, a lot of different things were happening at different vantage points at different times on January 6th. But I would say overall the government and the people who were in charge are ultimately responsible for what happened. And in terms of what I've, how much time I spent ban, I have no idea. I mean, I was watching it on that day. I thought the overreaction was absurd. I was very suspicious that all of a sudden everyone from Joe Biden to lawmakers, to the media, to George W. Bush were issuing statements calling it an insurrection. That that was crazy. Especially in light of all the violence we had seen throughout 2020, the second, especially in Washington D. So I immediately thought it was so overblown, such an overreaction, and it just didn't add up. That's just not how Trump supporters who had had all of these rallies, including November and December in Washington, they were the ones being attacked by BLM and Antifa rioters in the streets. I mean, young families being assaulted by these, by these protestors or rioters, whatever you wanna call them. So it just didn't add up to me. But I think right away, when you're tipping off, like what you just talked about, COVID lockdowns, the first lie that was told was that a capitol police officer had been murdered by Trump supporters bludgeon to death with a fire extinguisher. This is the Brian sick story.

Julie Kelly [00:36:24] That is what the New York Times wrote in Ja on January 8th, 2021. And right away I am thinking, and this went viral, you know, then everything changed to the alleged murder of Brian sick. No one was talking about the four Trump supporters who died that day, including Ashley Babbitt, who was shot at near point blank range by a capitol police officer. This very successfully, within 48 hours shifted the whole focus of the story. Two Trump supporters bludgeoned to death, a capitol police officer. Well, I'm thinking, I'm already watching it, it's already immersed in it. There's video everywhere. The, if a capitol police officer was being beaten to death with a fire extinguisher, we would've seen it. This is the most photographed recorded event in American history. The Department of Justice says this in their court filings. There's no video of this. So then they kept overblowing it, and then they laid Brian Signe in state, a very rare honor. You know, Joe Biden and Jill Biden went to the ceremony, he's eulogized by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, and everyone's going, wait, we still don't have any video photographs of this happening. None. The autopsy wasn't being released. His brother had sent out a text that said he had been pepper sprayed, but he was fine. So then what happens after all the optics, after the impeachment vote for Trump comes out? Oh no, he, he wasn't bludgeoned to death by a fire extinguisher. Completely made up the, a completely made up story. Did anyone at the New York Times get fired for that?

Julie Kelly [00:37:57] No. Did any editor get fired? No, nothing. Did Dean back at the publisher, did he apologize? No, no one said a word just corrected the story. Then the next thing was, oh, he had a, he, he died of allergic reaction to pepper spray. So this is what I started following early on in 2021, was the Brian sick story again, just all the changes to the story, the same media outlets, New York Times, M-S-N-B-C, everyone in on this. Then they changed it to a diet of an allergic reaction to bear spray that ends up not being true. The DC coroner obviously another partisan figure, 'cause everyone in DC is finally releases a report in April, a delayed report saying that he died of two blood clots or two strokes from a blood clot near his brain, had nothing to do with fire extinguisher, had nothing to do with being sprayed with pepper spray. Then we found out later what happened, actually, how he was sprayed. So I think that's what really alerted me that no, there's something more. And then I will tell you the big thing to me, someone sent me video in May of 2021 of police assaulting protestors outside on that western side that afternoon. And that is what prompted all the confrontations, most of them between protestors and police, was excessive force by Capitol Police and DC Metro Police against protestors. That prompted a lot of the violent clashes that we saw that afternoon.

Vance Crowe [00:39:26] When you talk with somebody that like, that's only watching what's on the news, they like, they're not bad people. They're sitting there saying, look, I'm seeing the exact same thing that you Julie Kelly are seeing, and I'm seeing things like these people were trying to break down the doors and they were, you know, in the Capitol building and they shouldn't have been. What do you think about those people? Are they just fooled? Do they just have a different opinion than you? What, what's your take on that?

Julie Kelly [00:39:54] Well, I mean, I would argue with the fact that they are seeing the same thing that I'm seeing because they just haven't, I mean, if they're following, if they're watching CNN or M-S-N-B-C, or even just the nightly local news stations in St. Louis or wherever, they're only seeing what the DOJ and Biden regime want them to see, which is why Vance, the other thing is, when the DOJ and Capitol Police wanted all of the thousands of the hours of surveillance video captured inside the building and outside under a protective order, they did not want even defendants that they were arresting to see all of the surveillance video. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:40:33] Why, yeah, explain this. This is wild, right? Mean we're

Julie Kelly [00:40:35] Seeing the same

Vance Crowe [00:40:36] Clips. This is, this is that there was all this surveillance video and it came, it became under lock and key and, and you couldn't, they didn't just release it out. You got to see that footage, didn't you?

Julie Kelly [00:40:46] I did. I've gotten to see a lot of it. But from March of 2021, all of the 14,000 hours that we were told at the time from an affidavit that was filed by the General counsel for Capitol Police said all of this video was sensitive government material, it needed to remain under protective order. Vance even clips as small as 45 seconds, 60 seconds were under protective orders if they were being used in these January six cases. And in many instances, believe it or not, a group called the Press Coalition filed lawsuits in court trying to get access even to these very short clips that the government for some reason didn't wanna put on the public docket. Well, then finally, they successfully got surveillance video in one of the cases of the Proud Boys that very clearly show police several officers standing by on the U upper west side of the building, allowing at least 300 protestors to walk through. So as some of that footage came, became available, it really did contradict what the January 6th select committee was trying to do at the same time, and DOJ and all the corporate media, which is, to your point, all these protesters showed up, thousands of them incited by Donald Trump beating up cops, you know, beating down doors. That certainly did happen. There were windows broken that allowed access for individuals to get in. But by the same token, you also saw doors were open, the police were not telling people not to come in.

Julie Kelly [00:42:20] We saw then, now we've seen the inside of the building, and certainly some of your viewers have seen this where Capitol police are just standing there letting people walk by fist bumping them. You know, people are taking photos and of themselves in the rotunda. And so, as I said, there were different things happening at different times. But the idea that, and initially it also, let's go back to the fact why did Nancy Pelosi, the people responsible for protecting the capitol, Nancy Pelosi, DC Mayor Muriel Bowser, the Capitol Police Board, why did they keep that area so unprotected? Why did they just have a couple flimsy bike racks? Who were the people that were tearing down the snow fencing? That was another surveillance video that I've posted. Some unidentified man, this all happened right at the time. Donald Trump's speech ended at the ellipse, which is about a mile and a half away from the capitol grounds. So then the timing just all started to not make sense. And the biggest thing is, why was this so unprotected if then as we found out later, there was intelligence that was being collected that said something could happen. So Nancy Pelosi, DC Mayor Muriel Bowser, the Capitol Police Board, which is really responsible for the security, all denying please and offers for National Guardsmen to be there. Well, why I, so why did they leave it that way? And then of course, then we have Nancy Pelosi on video.

Julie Kelly [00:43:52] Her daughter is following her around. She's a documentarian, you know, she's filming every movement that day. So yes, big parts of what happened on January 6th were indeed orchestrated FBI informants run into these alleged militia groups months before stoking conversations, just like we saw Whitmer stoking conversations later used as evidence of these militia men supposedly planning this violent armed insurrection

Vance Crowe [00:44:23] When all of this, the dust has settled. I don't know actually if it has or not. There have been people that have gone to prison over this and they're, they're locked away. You followed these trials quite closely. How many people were prosecuted? And is it over yet?

Julie Kelly [00:44:39] It's not over. The total caseload is now approaching 1,300 defendants, the FBI, the US attorney for the District of Columbia, still arresting people every week, if you can believe it or not, most of the char these charges are bogus. You have the weaponization of a post Enron tampering with evidence statute that now has been weaponized by the DOJ. It is now before the Supreme Court ban. So this is the top felony that has been slapped against more than 300 defendants and Donald Trump. It has been intentionally misinterpreted by DOJ to turn these people into felons, allegedly obstructing an official proceeding. So how so? And we have hundreds who have gone to jail for petty offenses such as parading in the Capitol, something that is never even handled by the federal courts in Washington. Usually if you get in trouble for trespassing in any capitol building, you're protesting, say Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation, or you're, you know, pro-Palestinian activist occupying house buildings. You get a slap on the wrist, you leave. If you walked into the capitol at three o'clock on the afternoon of January 6th, not only could you be a potential felon, your life is destroyed. Your family, your community, your neighbors abandon you, you lose your job, your bankrupted. I mean, this is the fate of what's happened to these people because they have been called domestic terrorists by everyone from Joe Biden to Chris Ray, attorney General Mayor Garland, and certainly the national and local press.

Julie Kelly [00:46:16] So hundreds already sentenced, pring, the obstruction, felony assaulting police officers, seditious conspiracy. This is the charge that several members of the proud boys and oath keepers have been convicted on. So when people like Elise Stefanik or Donald Trump call them political prisoners or hostages, it is true because these charges have never been used in this way. Seditious conspiracy obstruction of an official proceeding parading in the capitol, just for a few that have never been applied this way. And then long harsh prison sentences that are attached to those convictions or plea deals. And then DOJ coming and asking judges and getting it domestic, or excuse me, terror enhancements for things like shaking a metal fence. Well, you attempted, you tried to destroy government property in pursuit of seditious conspiracy. So we're gonna add time under terror enhancements. These are all things that were targeted created during the First War on terror. These are scented terror enhancements that were applied to the Blind Chic and his crew. Not a proud boy who shaped a temporary metal fence outside of the Capitol.

Vance Crowe [00:47:29] Well, and anybody that, the public

Julie Kelly [00:47:30] Property

Vance Crowe [00:47:30] That has been that, that has, I, it's so funny because I think of all the riots and the, and the burning and the, all the stuff that happened around the time when Trump was elected and, and then afterwards, George Floyd and, and and anybody that's even watching that has to say like, well, weren't they like throwing Moab cocktails over fences at, at just federal buildings in Portland? Like, weren't, didn't they like light entire blocks on fire? You know, like, why, why is this like, and I think people like me, and I probably just continue to have naivety about all of this, are like, you can't be blind to this, this, this must be an intentional or, or willful way of, of choosing who you're going to, which disruption are you going to go after?

Julie Kelly [00:48:19] Well, the biggest comparison I have is what happened in Lafayette Square in May and June of 2020. So the biggest comparison is you had rioters, BLM George Floyd rioters at Lafayette Square, which is public property. You had them attacking federal police officers, which is charges the j Sixers Face Park police and Secret Service. You had them trying to scale the fence of the White House. If you'll recall, the White House was sent into lockdown Memorial Day weekend when these protests started. And to your point, assaulting police trying to scale the fence there, they had to add more barbed wire and fencing around the White House. And this lasted for days. This didn't last for three hours on a Wednesday afternoon. This lasted four days. Hundreds of police officers who were injured, hit with firecrackers, hit with motor scooters, hit with frozen water bottles. This was what Antifa and BLM were doing to police across the country, but certainly in Washington. What happened to those rioters fans? The same DCUS attorney who is now now threatening on January 6th, the three year anniversary threatened to round up more people who were just standing on public property outside the capitol on January 6th, promising to round up thousands of more the same DCUS attorney's office dropped all charges against the Lafayette Square rioters and helped settle a civil lawsuit that the rioters filed against police, against the two police departments. And the DCUS attorney blamed police for being too aggressive against those rioters, all charges dropped, far more dangerous, a legit insurrection because they were trying to scale the walls and get to the president of the United States, not enter a building that had been evacuated at two 20 in the afternoon.

Julie Kelly [00:50:08] So that is the double standard, I think, whether you see those images on January 6th, and you want people who assaulted police to be punished to the full extent, or you want people who smash windows or open doors, you want them punished. What really upsets people is seeing this double standard. We just got more news of BLM settlement, I think, I don't know if it was, maybe it was Seattle. You have all these major cities entering agreements to lawsuits and, and settling and giving these rioters money. But then you've got someone who walked into a public building peacefully, you know, high fiving a police officer and they're thrown in the slammer for, for months or months and years after. Their lives are already personally and professionally destroyed. So when they say that there is, these are political prisoners, they are, because they are being treated far differently than the protestors and things that we saw just months before January 6th.

Vance Crowe [00:51:10] I talk about it all the time on, on the podcast about how afraid I am of mob action. And I think everybody got to see that very clearly with, with what happened around BLM riots. And, and you know, just when you get a group of people together and they feel like injustice is going on, you can't control them. They, they will, they will burst out. I I now think about what's going on at the border of Texas and how the governor, after three years of complaining to the Biden administration saying he, he wanted them to do something about it, finally said, no, we're gonna, we're gonna take care of this on our own. Now we're seeing the country split up and you start to have people say, I am with the Texas government, or no, I'm with the federal government. I know this is not something you are focused on. You're, you're on other issues. But as you look at this, where do you think this is heading?

Julie Kelly [00:52:06] I mean, it could really escalate to a point where I think some Americans have suspected all along that this was going to go, that you have such a complete dearth of trust in every government institution. We've been lied to and misled so much as we've just talked about just in the past few years. And now you have an administration that is intentionally putting this country at deep risk and preventing governors and mayors from protecting their own citizens and stopping this influx of people who we don't know. And of course, as you know, this is spilling over. This isn't just Republicans. We have democratic mayors in major cities saying, we, we can't handle this. Oh, we're a sanctuary city. Hate has no home here coexist, whatever. Then all of a sudden you have these busloads of people coming in, overrunning all of their public services, putting their own residents at risk. And so this is not just a partisan Republican issue, but to have this administration, to have Secretary Mayorkas, to have the press secretary continually bald, face the lie to the American people, that the border is secure and that this poses no national security threat. You know, the American people see what's happening before their very eyes. And you know, I think naturally instinctively we want to help people who are fleeing poverty and oppression.

Julie Kelly [00:53:44] But when you see the makeup of the individuals coming in, these are not families. These are not mostly young children. And that doesn't even address the child trafficking and drug trafficking real crisis that's happening there. But these are young men and we already know that there are people who are on the terror watch list who have been allowed into this country. So states have a right to defend themselves. The Supreme Court for now, this was a temporary vacating of, of an injunction. Not really sure where that's gonna completely end up. But the idea that states have to abide by what the Democrats and Joe Biden want, which is this influx of immigrants who they hope to eventually turn into democratic party voters. You know, this, this really could get to a dangerous level. Of course, I hope that's not the case, but if it is, is

Vance Crowe [00:54:39] That what your sense is? So this is, so I guess two questions here, right? The, if you go watch, I, you know, I try as best I can to go and watch news that I don't really agree with. 'cause I'm, I just wanna know what they're saying

Julie Kelly [00:54:51] And

Vance Crowe [00:54:51] What I, what they're saying is this is a PR stunt done by a Texas governor to be able to draw attention to his own state. That's not gonna really matter that much in the primaries right now. And that this is giving him a better chance to gain favor with Donald Trump if he can help win the election. But that this is really just a big PR stunt. And so that's my first question. And then my second question is, if the the, if it is actually happening, it's not just a PR stunt, why is anyone funding this? What is the draw for them in the most charitable explanation that you have? Why do you think that someone would be trying to bring in upwards of 6 million people into the United States illegally?

Julie Kelly [00:55:37] So the first part, is this a publicity stunt? It could be. I mean look, Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas has been under fire from the right. And specifically people like Tucker Carlson who have asked him, why haven't you taken more action? You have a job, you have a responsibility, why haven't you done more? So this could just be a reaction, kind of a late reaction from Governor Abbott who also was sort of a pro lockdown governor too. I mean, he's not exactly what you would call most people would sort of consider him what they call rhino Republican. Meaning,

Vance Crowe [00:56:12] Yeah, the secessionist people in Texas don't, don't think of him as on their team by any stretch of the imagination. They said it, he had three years to do this and he's just doing it now.

Julie Kelly [00:56:22] Exactly. So I think that that is sort of why is he doing it now? I think the situation has gotten so desperate that he was sort of coerced or pushed into doing it. So, and it's great to see these other 25 Republican governors immediately support what he's doing. So the test will be, to your point, is this a publicity stunt? If things really do es escalate, if the Biden administration does, I guess maybe nationalize the National Guard there or send troops or tries some other legal maneuver, what the counter response will be. So I think it's hard to predict. We'll just kind of see what happens from there. But why do they want this influx of immigrants? No one really can explain why, except that this is something that Democrats have wanted for a long time. Excuse me, just getting over something that they've wanted for a long time, which is to fundamentally change the population of the United States and turn it into a less white country. And this is not something they've hidden. And this isn't a replacement theory. Conspiracy theory. These are things that they wanted for a long time. And so have a lot of Republicans, by the way, you know, Republican in action on illegal immigration, especially for the past few years, is very frustrating to the base. Why they haven't done more this week. They're supposed to finally proceed with articles and impeachment again, secretary, secretary Mayorkas.

Julie Kelly [00:57:56] Well why wasn't that one of the first things you did when you took over over a year ago? Where are the budget cuts or where is the support for these states to help them? So there's widespread frustration towards both parties and leaders of both parties and, and again, I don't think it's just Republicans who are concerned about this influx of the legal immigrants. It's Democrat voters too. And this is why they're very concerned how this will impact the 2024 election. Not just president, but up and down the ticket. If something dramatic doesn't happen to cut off this stream and the unknown people, the drugs, the child trafficking, human trafficking, et cetera, all the things that we know that are happening because of this open border.

Vance Crowe [00:58:45] Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens if, if the, the cartels or whoever's escorting people over if they move from the Texas border over to Arizona or California, and you start to see those states have to deal with their population saying, what are we gonna do with 40,000 more illegal immigrants here in Phoenix? Or what are we gonna do with them in San Diego? And they start having their own cities go. I, I was listening to a guy talking about how all it could play out, and you know, me, I'm kind of a, I kind of like to push back on things. I like changing it up and seeing what new happens. Like I'm comfortable with that. But he said something that really kind of made me say like, this is not the area to mess around in. Right? We, we wanna take very, very careful steps. And he said, because if, for some reason this battle on the border were to take a, a turn, there was some sort of shots fired by a National Guard or by a state guard. Now all of a sudden the language that the, that the, that the Democrats have been using, you mentioned it before, insurrectionists, secessionists, you know, that they're in a civil war, all of a sudden gives them the ability to say, oh, we're in a civil war, which means we now can suspend the Constitution like Abraham Lincoln did. And now all these rights that have kept us from being able to move faster on our agenda is possible. I think this is like worst case scenario, but you now can see a path to that happening.

Vance Crowe [01:00:20] Whereas a few months ago, the path was not clear for how that might happen.

Julie Kelly [01:00:25] And look, we know that, we've seen this, that the Biden regime and Democrats, they, they thrive on crisis and chaos. It's not the Republican party, it's Democrats who create these crises and especially intended to influence elections. And so, yeah, this could get to, this could escalate and to your point, what happens if there are shots fired? You know, what happens if there are national Guardsmen or border patrol or just individuals who are showing up there to help secure that border? What happens then? And would you put, I've, I've covered this, this regime in the DOJ, especially in these agencies, would they stop at anything to get what they want and stay in power? No. They, they respect no boundaries. They certainly don't respect the constitution. They are completely reckless and lawless. They, because they're not accountable to anyone, they always get away with whatever they want to. And so would they say, or would, or would the media say, okay, this is a step too far. You can't start, you know, attacking or doing whatever to your own citizens? No, they wouldn't. There's just no stop gap. And that, I think that's the scariest aspect of that. So

Vance Crowe [01:01:45] I, we're gonna wrap up soon, but I wanna hear Julie Kelly's crystal ball on, on a couple of different things. The first one is,

Julie Kelly [01:01:54] Oh,

Vance Crowe [01:01:54] What do you think is gonna happen with the presidential election in January of 2025? Who will be being sworn in as the US president?

Julie Kelly [01:02:03] I don't know. I, I, I honestly don't, I don't know. Obviously Donald Trump is gonna be the Republican nominee. We're still waiting, you know, with these cases. Both of his federal trials right now are on hold as they kind of flush out some immunity issues. There's some legal things that need to be settled before he can go to trial. He was supposed to start trial in Washington. Keep in mind, on March 4th, would they put him on trial in September and October in Washington? Absolutely. Merrick Garland just said that basically it's out of his hands. It's in the hands of the court. So if this immunity issue is finally settled, whether a president could be criminally prosecuted and the Supreme Court comes back and says, yeah, you can, will they put him on trial in the most democratic city in the country as early voting is going on? Absolutely. So could that impact it? Guess? I, I honestly don't know. You know, Donald Trump obviously is still very popular. A lot of people still believe the 2020 election was illegitimate. And so they, they want him, and a lot of people just want him back as president because of the country was better off the economy, national security, all these crises that we see didn't happen under him. So that's why he still maintains such popularity in the Republican party. Joe Biden right now is extremely unpopular. I think he, he's at historic lows for approval of his presidency. But will that unpopularity and anger about what's happening translate into needed votes for Donald Trump?

Julie Kelly [01:03:35] I don't know. You know, that people who hate Donald Trump want him behind bars. They're not gonna change their mind because, you know, inflation is high or you know, that they're, they're not. So there's such an entrenched opposition on both sides. It'll just basically be, I think, go back to these swing states, how the voting proceeds, you know, lawsuits that are filed before and after. Because in these swing states, there's gonna try to get away with what they did in 2020, which is violate state law in many cases, especially Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, in Michigan, to make sure that there are enough votes for Joe Biden. So I think people are understandably very nervous about that too. Look, this is gonna be a tough year. Everyone was expecting it. And I think it's playing out that way, especially with the crisis at the border now facing Donald Trump going to trial and, you know, who knows what else will pop up?

Vance Crowe [01:04:34] Well then my la

Julie Kelly [01:04:35] So I don't have a prediction.

Vance Crowe [01:04:37] I'm sorry. So, so this one I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you an even harder question after. You couldn't answer the first one, but I, I, you know, gave a great analysis. But five years out, what do you think is gonna be going on in your life? Not necessarily around the world, but what, what do you think, what do you think will be important to you in five years?

Julie Kelly [01:04:57] Wow. I don't know. Hopefully have, you know, a son-in-law or two, maybe a couple of grandchildren. I don't know. It's hard to even say that out loud, but five years, you know, a lot can happen. So personally, you know, just obviously hoping for the best for my family and myself. But as far as the country, really hoping that in five years we're really starting to roll back, you know, the destruction, destructive elements in our government that really wanna fundamentally radically change what this country is, what our people are about, our laws, our traditions, everything else. So I'm really hoping five years from now we kind of look back and say, you know, those of us who were fighting and wanting the truth and defending those who needed it, that we had the outcomes that we were hoping for. Whether that happens, again, I don't, I don't have an answer because I know these powerful interests, you know, I've seen them in court. I see what these prosecutors and judges, this government is capable of doing. Their lack of humanity, as we talked about with lockdowns in some ways there's sadistic impulses where they enjoy people suffering. That's, I think, my biggest angst of following January 6th. But let's hope that all of this at the end of the day, is a successful exercise and salvaging our country and rooting out these really bad people who have wanted to destroy it for a very long time.

Vance Crowe [01:06:38] Well, that was a fantastic answer, Julie. If people wanted to read more of your stuff, follow what you're doing, where, where should they go? Well,

Julie Kelly [01:06:46] Vance, it's so good to talk with you. As you said, we've been friends a long time. We go way back. I'm so proud of your success and now you're a dad and you know, it's so great to see everything that's happened to you. You so deserve it. So, so my work can be found at Substack Declassified with Julie Kelly. I also write for real clear investigations. So I've got some pieces up there, including the Whitmer piece. I'm on Twitter XA lot, Julie Kelly two, I have my own podcast, happy Hour with Liz. So, but those are the main places where you could find my work and my reporting.

Vance Crowe [01:07:20] Well, I am so glad I get to hear you on Mark Rearden's show every now and then talking about what's going on. And I have just watched you go from being a woman that was wondering why people were against GMOs, to now putting out information that I think actually puts you in in actual real danger. And I'm grateful that there are people that stand up for their convictions in that way. So thank you so much, Julie, for coming on. Thanks

Julie Kelly [01:07:42] Fans. Great to see you.