#277 | John Launius; Psychology of smell, hypnotherapy, human behavior

About this episode

John Launius, a 40-year student of world incense traditions, hypnotherapist, martial artist, and executive coach, turns a planned interview into a live sensory demonstration — warming a series of raw incenses (Borneo camphor, sandalwood, Kaifi, frankincense) on Vance as they talk, narrating in real time how each fragrance shifts Vance's physiology and mental state. The conversation moves through the neuroscience and folklore of scent (imprints formed before age 13, the "brain of the dragon" concept from Tang Dynasty poetry, incense across Buddhist, Christian, Egyptian, and Judaic traditions), into hypnotherapy concepts like the "91 days" identity-upgrade window and "letting go" versus "quitting." Launius shares his own path — trained post-9/11 by an unnamed government contact in use-of-force and interrogation psychology, where he learned everyone lies by omission, exaggeration, or outright untruth — and his decade-long research project identifying misattributed 19th-century Japanese incense artifacts at Washington University's art museum, tied to rediscovering forgotten St. Louis banker and abolitionist Charles Parsons. The episode closes with a moving story of playing his dying, atheist father a recording of Alan Watts' "Going Over the Waterfall" the night before he passed, and Launius's core credo — inherited from his grandfather — to leave people better than he found them.

“It's interesting that the sense of smell has been used for thousands of years to skip what you might say is our waking and cognitive brain. And it goes right to the unconscious... when you begin to use fragrance as a way to start to untap or unlock parts of your brain, then you can truly use it as a path to peak performance.”

“So when we're looking at the five levels of psychological trust... the first two are, do you get me? And are you for me?... And once I know that is really true, then I can start to be my authentic self in a safe way.”

“It takes 91 days for a human being to actually upgrade their identity around whatever it is that they're doing... they're still gonna be 91 days where that individual feels uncomfortable... but then one day in that span of those 91 days, they're like, I am a guitarist.”

Key moments

• Launius asks Vance to describe the smell of a lemon, using it to demonstrate that smell can only be "imagined" fleetingly, not summoned (craft).
• Launius introduces incense as a tool that "skips the waking brain" and goes straight to the unconscious, citing a Tang Dynasty "brain of the dragon" incense used by poets to hyperfocus overnight.
• Vance recounts a childhood boy scout imprint — being caught shooting a .22 range unsupervised, and the counselor's face-saving fake phone call — as an example of a formative "positive imprint" (legacy).
• Launius lays out the "five levels of psychological trust," starting with "do you get me?" and "are you for me?" as prerequisites for authentic connection (trust).
• Launius explains the "91 days" theory of identity change and why hypnotherapy language uses "let it go" instead of "quit" because the subconscious resists framing things as loss.
• Launius describes being recruited post-9/11 for classified use-of-force/interrogation training, where he learned the three forms of lying — omission, exaggeration, outright untruth — a rule he still applies when hiring (windows).
• Launius recounts discovering mislabeled Japanese incense artifacts (a Tokugawa incense burner labeled "a bowl") in the Kemper Art Museum collection, leading to his decade-long book project on forgotten 19th-century St. Louis figure Charles Parsons.
• Launius describes playing Alan Watts' "Going Over the Waterfall" for his dying, atheist father the night before he passed, and asking if it helped (legacy).
• Launius states his life credo, inherited from his grandfather: leave people better than when you found them.

Notable quotes

“The first two are, do you get me? And are you for me?... once I know that is really true, then I can start to be my authentic self in a safe way.”

“First of all, everyone is a liar. And there's only three ways that all human beings lie, lie by omission, lie by exaggeration, or an outright untruth.”

“The day before he died... I played for him a short lecture by Alan Watts called Going Over the Waterfall... And when it was over, I said, did that make a difference for you? And he nodded, and he was gone the next day.”

“It takes 91 days for a human being to actually upgrade their identity around whatever it is that they're doing.”