How Banks Deployed $350 Billion in Emergency Small Business Loans During COVID-19

Vance Crowe [00:00:01] As the crow flies on the Vance Crow podcast, Travis Liebig, welcome to the podcast.

Travis Liebig [00:00:10] Hey, Vance, thanks for having me.

Vance Crowe [00:00:11] So longtime podcast listeners probably know who you are. You're one of my longest friends. You and I are work together at the bank. You're the bank president of St. Louis Bank, and I'm on the board of directors. And, but for anybody that's new to this podcast, what I have done is I took a weekly podcast and turned it into coronavirus perspectives. There are all kinds of people, industries impacted by coronavirus right now. And as society is going through these wild and rapid changes, I wanted to give as many different perspectives of different industries and individuals. How are they dealing with it? What are they seeing? And although I've been doing this podcast for a year and we are very close friends, we've never been on together, but when the SBA loan stuff came through with the government, we sat down and said, Hey, now is a good time for us to talk about what does the world look like from the eyes of a community bank president and what is going on with the stimulus package. So thanks for coming on, man.

Travis Liebig [00:01:11] You bet. Yeah, thanks. Thanks again. Yeah, it's definitely a lot to, to take in, you know, the CARES Act, which we've heard a lot about in the media here recently that was signed into law on Friday afternoon. And part of that is a, a new loan program that's guaranteed by the federal government. It's under the SBAs program, known as the payment protection program or the paycheck protection loan. And that's what we've been working this morning. And really over the weekends just to be able to put things into play where our customers and, and other businesses in the community, they're really needing to find an easy way to access those dollars. And I don't know that banks are prepared or set up to, to follow through with that as efficiently as I think our, our clients and really the business owners need. So there's a lot of strain on, on the system right now, but we're here to try to make sure that we're as responsive as we can and will be.

Vance Crowe [00:02:04] So we'll get into some of the particulars of that program. I actually, when I said, when I found out I was gonna do this, I got a lot of questions from people that I wanna get a you to a answer. But before we do that, te walk me through what has gone on from the perspective of a bank who is open whenever the federal government is open, you have to be there because people need access to their money. How did Coronavirus come on to you guys a couple of weeks ago? You started making changes and kind of walk us through what that was like and how was it to make decisions about who comes to work and who works from home, stuff like that.

Travis Liebig [00:02:36] Yeah, I think, you know, we've been talking about it, you know, internally amongst executive management for, you know, over a month. And when it first came up in conversation, you know, that there's a pandemic out there, it almost was laughable. I don't think that any of us probably saw this coming, you know, really at the force that it's coming and really the impact to business and communities and just the shutdown. So as we've talked about that, you know, just what we were doing to plan ahead and making sure that we had procedures in place, they've been there, this is really the first chance that we've had to test those procedures and really then adapt from our business model. So probably three weeks ago is really where our operations changed. And it was over that weekend that we could tell that, you know, that we were gonna have to do a lot of things differently as an organization, specifically getting as many people out of the bank as possible and working remotely just to avoid, you know, the spread of this. And, you know, we didn't have anything locally that required us to do that. We were really trying to err on the side of caution and be a little bit proactive. And while we like to say that we have a remote workforce and remote remote workforce capabilities, this is our, our test, our chance to, to prove that we did shut our bank branches, or at least the lobbies so that, you know, they, you know, customers, you know, could only really visit with us by appointment drive up was still available. And all the other, you know, services that we already provided became the way that clients needed to bank, which can cause a little bit of panic if you think about customers that are so used to coming into the, into the bank and visiting their money as we joke.

Travis Liebig [00:04:14] But not being able to come into a bank is, is a unique situation. And so far, so good. I feel like our focus has primarily been on business customers. We don't have a lot of the consumer focus that, you know, other banks do. So for us, a lot of our clients were already working, you know, remotely or working, you know, with technology more so than coming to the bank.

Vance Crowe [00:04:35] One of the things that I noticed through this buildup to the pandemic is I have a group of friends that are scientific and academic, and they were watching this online and they were much more pliable and and flexible as this pandemic started building. But then the other side of my world, whether that's farmers or business owners or with the bank, you have people that have always walked past the warnings of others in order to build something, in order to be that entrepreneur, you have to have that kind of mentality of, now it's not that big of a deal and it's not gonna get in my way. But this is one of those times where an unstoppable object comes in contact with an immovable wall, and you started to see that the people that are the builders, the ones that are business owners waited a, in many cases the longest to react to it. And it, it's, it's a bizarre thing, kind of the psychology of the type of person that's an entrepreneur.

Travis Liebig [00:05:28] I think it's a, it is a great point. I think, you know, that entrepreneurial spirit, you know, may be a higher tolerance for risk. And that's what, you know, is the beautiful thing about entrepreneurs, that they see a problem, they go solve it, they take risks to, to get there. That is what our business community is, is, is, is built upon, which is a a good point. On the flip side, I think you can imagine that, you know, bankers historically, you know, are probably risk averse. They're trying to know and understand all the risks in every situation. And this is one that you don't know, you know, and bankers do a good job of reviewing the past to make future decisions. That's how loan decisions are made. Looking at, at former payment history or just overall fundamentals that are in the business from the past to make the decision. That's where I feel like this really has some banks or bankers, you know, in a, in a bit of a pickle, because the unknown variables, how this affects all the decision making skillset that we've accumulated over our career, you kind of have to throw that outta the window here, or at least in the short term, you have to throw it out the window because you, you aren't gonna be able to predict the impacts. And this isn't industry specific and this isn't regional, you know, this is a very different situation where everybody is in the same fight at the same time, experiencing maybe varying difference, varying differences as far as the extreme, you know, impact. But all in all, everybody is experiencing things. And then how do you figure out what that means in the different sectors that, that we have as as clients. So while that's important, you know, our job at first is check in with customers, how are they doing?

Travis Liebig [00:07:03] Let's learn from them. They're the ones that are out there in the field right now and can bring information to us. So it's been a, a learning experience for everybody. And then for us, you know, where we've learned the most is, you know, contacting our, our client base to understand what they're up to.

Vance Crowe [00:07:17] And it's, it's fascinating because you start thinking about any one area that gets tripped up, even just a little bit, like people that own apartment complexes that are not collecting rent, and then what happens as the knock on effect, who can they then not pay? And then who can they then not pay? And I have never felt more responsibility for taking on risk than when you're involved in a community bank, right? If your, your community bank essentially means the, the deposits that you have to give out as loans come from the community. So to you, you're making decisions that are really difficult right now. Do you think that the government program, well, actually maybe a better question. 'cause I had, I don't really understand what the government has offered banks to do, but it seems like they have taken huge volumes of money and said banks that are capable of doing SBAs get this money out to business owners. But that's all the more I know about it.

Travis Liebig [00:08:12] Yeah. And it's, you know, such a, a new program that not all the details are known, but I'll kind of speak to the way that I understand it and the way that we've read through the CARES Act and this program, you know, again, this was signed into Law Friday, the SBA is still working on some of those forms that they're gonna require, but the way that you just, you know, summarized it is exactly right, there are is $350 billion that we need to get into the hands of business owners go do it. And we don't have all the answers to the process yet, but we do know this. We know that we can, you know, be in front of this as and proactive as we can that while we don't have a specific application yet, we know the, the, the, the, the bolts and the nuts of this, this program and what it's gonna look like. And that's where we've been spending our time, you know, really over the weekend and today, just making sure that we can still keep the ball rolling even though not all the forms which we expect today or tomorrow are, are available. But yeah, it's a government guaranteed lending program. So banks should have the, you know, the desire to do this if they're set up under the SBAs preferred lending program. Unfortunately not all banks are. So you take that $350 billion that we're talking about just for this specific program, and you say, all right, all the banks out there go to work. Well, there's just a, a right around 5,000 banks in this country, and about 1500 or 1800 of 'em are set up under the SBAs program already. Some are scrambling right now to get in the program, but we're already in it. We're a very active SBA lender now it's just understanding the requirements. And I'm not concerned about that.

Travis Liebig [00:09:43] What I'm more concerned is, you know, can we be as responsive as that we, as we need to be putting into practice a new process for a new loan program, essentially overnight. And that's where our time's being spent right now to make sure that we're not just doing some of these, but that we're doing as many of these as we can do, not just for our customers, but just other business in the community that are aware that we're, we're a preferred SBA lender. So

Vance Crowe [00:10:07] What is the experience? One of your clients calls you up and says, Hey, I wanna know about what's going on with the SBA loan program from the government. What are you then responding with?

Travis Liebig [00:10:18] Yeah, so we put together a webpage that outlines the basics of this program. And then there's the other common program that's being used in these types of, in these crisis is the economic disaster loan program. So we put together a webpage that really breaks out what is the difference between those two programs. And then me as a business owner, reading that, you know, how do I get enough information to know whether or not I qualify and then what the general framework of the dollar amount that I might be able to request is. So that's was our, was our first step and we got that up and running over the weekend and it went live this morning. And we've sent that communication out to our clients to let them know you, we know you're gonna have questions, here's some of the basic answers, and then here's what's next, and then what next is, you know, if you wanna take part in this, let us know. And we've got a form out there that they can complete with very basic info and then some other recommendations.

Vance Crowe [00:11:09] What type of information, what, what do you, what do you wanna know right now for a program you don't, you don't know very much about?

Travis Liebig [00:11:14] Yeah, so, you know, we, we built the website and the website is there for our existing customers, but honestly it's for anybody that might need the program. So the form itself is, you know, tell us a little bit about your business. You know, your name, your contact number when you started, you know, what your revenues are and what your payroll expense was for last year. We feel like those are some key parameters that will help us understand their situation, but, and then also what the, the, the loan size should be. But it isn't intended to be necessarily the application or the end all be all. It is just a way for them to get the process started. And then the best thing that they're gonna be able to, to do is have a, a direct interaction phone call with one of our experienced lenders that can then ask the deeper dive questions to understand their, their unique situation. So we're trying to get enough out there, so if people have the basic info that they need, it helps us, you know, field a lot of those questions, you know, consistently and give the answers that that, that they need to hear. And then starts this process of getting them into a queue that allows us to then reach out directly and spend time with them to know what's going on. You know, let's, let's talk about these programs in further detail and then what the next step would be would be to gather some, some documentation to start down that path. The general rule of thumb here that we, we are using related to that loan for the payment, excuse me, the paycheck protection program, that is two and a half times your average monthly payroll expe expense. That's just a really general rule of thumb. But if I'm running a company and I've got a hundred grand a month that I'm, you know, spending in payroll and that's my average for the last 12 months, I can borrow two and a half times that under this program that is forgivable, or at least a portion of it's forgivable, very limited information is required to get that in place.

Travis Liebig [00:13:02] We just have to check the boxes, as we say, just to make sure that they do have the appropriate loan size in place for them. And then it's, you know, getting the, the normal paperwork done. But it's gonna be, I think, in my opinion, less than most loan applications that we really process just because we have to have speed urgency in getting this out. And

Vance Crowe [00:13:22] So the, the purpose of this, as far as I can tell, is if you give two and a half months of payroll, then you can then businesses, even if they're shut down, can keep paying their employees without having to have revenue come in.

Travis Liebig [00:13:34] Yeah. The way I look at it, again, right or wrong, this is the way I see it, is if, if I own a business and I gotta start laying people off, they're gonna get on unemployment. This program is built so that, you know, those decisions don't have to be as abrupt. We can keep people employed and we can keep paying 'em, and these, these dollars that we're receiving under this program allow us to do that. But we can also spend that on other things besides payroll. We can spend it on keeping the lights on our, our our our lease or our mortgage payment on our building. And then, you know, for the forgivable nature of it, it's gonna be looking at how you're using and spending those dollars and those dollars don't have to be repaid under the program.

Vance Crowe [00:14:13] That's interesting. I mean, that that is, it's funny almost that it's called a loan, right? Because if it's forgivable that's more like a grant or, or is you got it unprecedented. I've never heard of this before. That's right. Is is there another program that's like this before,

Travis Liebig [00:14:27] You know, there, there probably are some forgivable pieces, not necessarily from a bank's perspective, that's for sure. But when we look at it in, in terms of what this is, it starts as a loan and then if you get these certain qualifications, it's forgiven. So yeah, it would be very similar to what that grant would be. And then that payment structure being super flexible where they're not looking for a big repayment right away, get through this storm, keep your people employed, we come out the other side, deferring those payments, and then when things get back to whatever the new normal is, then you can start clipping away at that outstanding balance.

Vance Crowe [00:14:58] And so from a bank's perspective, are you able to generate interest on this or a fee? How does this work for the, from the bank's perspective?

Travis Liebig [00:15:07] Yeah, so we've been given, you know, at least most of, and we'll have all the rules of the game here from the SBA on how they want these to be done. They're providing us a, a guarantee. So the entire loan balance is backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government. The interest rates on these are 4% fixed for 10 years. So that's a atra an attractive rate. So they're not huge yielding loans. When you look at it from an interest rates standpoint. The SBA will then also pay you a processing fee as well just to put these into, into the market. So from our perspective is it's, it's helping the businesses do what we need to help them do, and that's keep their people employed from a profitability standpoint. Yeah, we're going to charge interest, we're gonna put payment deferrals out there, but those are mandated or are, are guided by what the small business administration says these loans should look like. So we're not pricing 'em on our own, we're using their, their formulas.

Vance Crowe [00:16:03] So if you're a business owner right now, and you've, you've been, you don't, you're not, you're a non-essential service. You're selling your retail or something like that, you know, right now, hey, I'm in trouble. I I, my business is gonna struggle and I have loans to repay. What is the way that you call up your banker and start that conversation because it's gotta be embarrassing. Sure. And it's gotta be a little bit scary that you, something you've worked so hard for could just evaporate in the matter of weeks.

Travis Liebig [00:16:34] Yeah. And it really, this is where the human element comes into play here of talking to, you know, a banker and, you know, we pride ourselves on having, you know, great client service and great interaction as well as, you know, great technology. Nothing against, you know, those institutions that are, you know, more so built on just the technology platform. But when you have questions, you wanna talk to somebody across the table or across the phone and tell 'em about your situation because you, you know, not, this doesn't apply directly and overlay directly over every business, every entity, every different industry. So first things first is hopefully you have a banker, and I don't expect everybody to have a banker. They may just have a bank. And so now, now becomes the game of how do I get to somebody that knows what the heck they're talking about that can help me when I'm probably the most frightened I've been as a business owner and I need answers. I don't need a bunch of canned corporate speak here. I need somebody to tell me how to get there, how to get across the, really this really chaotic situation. So all in all, it's finding a banker that you either know or can be referred to that can, can really shoot you straight. That is where I think you need to be In the meantime. It's, you know, understanding what the program looks like, but then the next connecting of the dots becomes, I need to talk to somebody that can help me get there. Having, you know, built businesses, I think, you know, business owners a lot of times have done a good job building those relationships with a banker that, you know, knows their story, knows it through and through. And if they don't, you know, that doesn't mean that they're not able to find somebody.

Travis Liebig [00:18:08] But that's where you've gotta really probably trust in, you know, those individuals in your circle that you might be able to ask for a reference that will help you get in front of somebody that might be able to shoot you straight a little bit quicker than just picking up, you know, the, the phone and dialing every bank in your town. There are some things that the SBA has done to do a lender match program that's on their website that says, Hey, look, I don't have a banker. I need help. Here's my city, state, my, my, my industry. Help me find a banker in my community that can help me with these programs. They've set something up and I think that will help. But what I would do if I was sitting in the shoes of a lot of businesses is if I don't have a banker that I know well in my community, I'm probably asking my accountant, I'm gonna ask my financial advisor, I'm gonna ask some other peer individuals that might have some resources and try to get to the best person that I can as quick as I can because there will be a backlog on these. I think we're already gonna experience that no matter how well how well prepared we are, but the sooner you can get out in front of somebody and just say, Hey look, here's my story, help me get started. That's what I think people need to do.

Vance Crowe [00:19:13] Yeah, I mean, you and I have talked about this for a really long time, so, you know, I was around when you first tried to bring together the investors to get this bank together, and we had always talked about how do you describe the value of a community bank, right? Where, where, you know, it feels one thing to, it's one thing to say, Hey, we have relationships with our customers, but it, in a time like this, having an actual person that you can call up to at your bank has gotta make a huge difference. A huge difference relative to, I mean, I tried to call up one of the big banks the other day just to ask him a regular banking question and I was on hold for two and a half hours. I ended up giving up because I couldn't get a hold of somebody. And that's probably going on all over the nation right now.

Travis Liebig [00:19:56] Yeah. And you know, there's frustration if you have a $2 fee on your checking account and you wanna get an answer on it. And if you, if you need to keep your business alive, now is the time where you're gonna have even more questions. And the pain of being on, on the phone that long trying to get to a straight answer is something that I can't imagine right now is going on with the business community. But you know, me, I'm a, a proud banker. I feel like, you know, I'm somebody that can make a change and make an impact in my community. And I love this profession. If we think about the last recession, you know, banks, big banks, you know, they were blamed for, for starting it. My hope here is that bankers can prove who they really are and who we've always been by helping in this one, we're not part of the problem. We can be part of the solution. And I do hope that, you know, people are taking that seriously for what this is able to do for the business community. But now is a chance to prove, all right, are all these reputations that are out there that have been built in tough times as the, as the tough bankers. You know what show the other side of it. And that's really what our goal is, is to, you know, prove that we are who we said we are through, you know, the nice messaging that we put out. Well now's your chance to test it and we're gonna do that.

Vance Crowe [00:21:10] So I think one of the toughest questions going on right now, particularly for somebody that I know is as fiscally conservative as as you are, we're adding billions, trillions of dollars into the economy. Is this gonna turn into wild hyperinflation? Should, I mean, like, how, how should a how should a person that understands economics, at least the basic of macroeconomics, not assume that this will be hyperinflation?

Travis Liebig [00:21:37] Yeah, I think, you know, if you think of some worst case scenarios, you know, this has some of the fundamentals of what that would look like to get towards that hyperinflation standpoint. But being a international global problem where, you know, governments from around the world are doing some of the same things, I feel like our currency does remain strong throughout this. So we probably have less risk of the hyperinflation standpoint that I think early on people might've thought could be a reality. But there are so many things that we just don't know that, you know, from, you know, the, the economics and the, you know, the things that we've all studied, you know, there's a lot of things that's, that are going on right now that really have never played into some of those models. So I'm gonna let smarter people than I kind of predict some of what the future impacts will be. And while I could probably debate, you know, the, the, the different programs that are there lack thereof or too many, you know, I think right now it's emergency response to make sure that we just protect as many people as possible as fast as possible. And the only way you can do that is really, I think, through some of the programs that are being put in place to keep people employed, to keep, you know, their, their lights on at home. It's all flows through the entire economic system from business through community. And we're seeing it in real time right now. You

Vance Crowe [00:22:55] Know, it really is exceptional. However you think about, like in the, in the last recession when I was whatever, going to grad school, I had a lot of really strong opinions about, you know, just let the economy burn down and we'll see what's left. But now being a part of a bank and seeing like, hey wait a second, these people don't have a choice on whether or not they go to work. They're locked in their houses. For all intents and purposes, they are on house arrest. You bet. And you've gotta keep money flowing there. So this has been a weird moral economic conundrum for me because as you say, like these programs are there now and this is the way that it's getting meted out. And frankly, from what I know of banking now, having been involved in it for about two years, I'd much rather have private banks being the ones like, or banks that are owned not by the government doing these systems than I would be to have some giant government bureaucracy out there. So this is, has me really conflicted, but it is what it is and I'm glad that you're, you're at the helm of, of a group of people trying to make something happen. So let's change subjects just for a, a real quick bit, just because people don't get to talk to a bank president very often. Like, what's going on with your family? How, how prepared are you? What, what are you thinking about? Like how are you worried about your kids? Tell me a little bit about that.

Travis Liebig [00:24:17] Yeah, it's, nobody was prepared for this, you know, and you hope that the things that you've done that you would do in normal times can help you through tough times. But, you know, we have two young kids. So I have a 7-year-old boy and then a 4-year-old daughter and you know, they're outta school right now, so they're at home. My wife's been furloughed, so she's at home. And actually that's been a, a, a, a good thing because I don't know what we'd be doing for childcare had she not, so that's not desirable. That's not necessarily what I think we'd hoped to, to have happen over a situation. But it's where we are and you know, they're, they're doing their schoolwork. I'm trying to keep them aware of what's going on in this situation, but they don't need to have a lot of the things that maybe we as adults should be a little bit fearful of. They need to know enough to keep themselves safe. They also need to watch how we're responding during this time. 'cause I will guarantee you for sure my 7-year-old he'll remember this, he'll remember it vividly because it's such a contrast to the normal life. You know, mom's home all day, they're doing different activities, the weather's turned nice so they're able to get outside more. I've been home a little bit more, you know, working from home a little bit. And then on weekends, you know, trying to talk to them a little bit about what's, what's taken place. Those are the, the the beautiful things that I think are, are happening right now out of this. And that's that closeness of what matters most. And that's the family when you start to think about, you know, how long could we, we operate this way? Do we have our house in order from a, from a fiscal standpoint, those are the questions that all Americans are asking.

Travis Liebig [00:25:48] And you know, it's even, you know, further compounded for a business owner to have to ask the same questions themselves for the company that they're running and the people that are depending on them. And that's kind of some of the things that I've been thinking about as, you know, CEO of the bank. You know, I need everyone's help here to help the community, but they need, you know, our help to help them not be in the same situations as a critical service. You know, most of us are all still working just not here in the bank day to day. But, you know, we talked on a, on an all employee call earlier that, you know, we're in Missouri, so we have been a little bit at an advantage to watch this happen, you know, from afar in, in other states and other cities. But it is growing and it's growing here and as it gets closer to home, that's where the anxiety starts to get created because your loved ones now are at further at risk or maybe are sick and how that will change behavior. So I, we've tried try not to be naive in the fact that yeah, we've operated seamlessly throughout this and everybody's been laser focused on helping the customer and helping the community. But as we get into this week,

Vance Crowe [00:26:53] Next week, almost all the sickness has been far away.

Travis Liebig [00:26:55] Exactly.

Vance Crowe [00:26:55] That's right. And that it's, it's like watching a slow motion tidal wave. And I, I was thinking about this that, you know, in St. Louis, there was a guy that apparently was his daughter, they thought maybe had COVID-19 or Coronavirus. And he a apparently stayed apart from his daughter and took his other daughter to the daddy daughter dance and went to the Ritz Carlton and then people found out his one daughter was sick and maybe he exposed all these people at the Ritz Carlton. And in St. Louis that became huge news and the guy was considered an absolute pariah, one of the worst people out there for, for having exposed all these people. And it turns out you can never look at an experience in the moment and say whether it's good or bad because I'll tell you the fear that was struck up by the fact that that guy did it, I guarantee got people to stay at home way before they would have, because they saw how upset the community got. They saw how serious businesses were taking it. And so it's just really hard right now in the moment to look at any one individual event and say that's good or that's bad, or that's gonna have this impact. 'cause it's just everything is interconnected with, with one another right now.

Travis Liebig [00:28:06] Yeah. And I think everybody's been searching for the, the beacon of truth through this whole thing. You know, usually in situations you can call on, you know, a mentor or you know, an old wise individual that's been around the block and ask them what they think and they can kind of level set and tell you how to think about it. This is one that, you know, I have not found anybody that says, yeah, this is how this feels because nobody's been through it. That's a scary thing. And I think you and I have talked about this before, whenever you know, it hits the fan, you know, you wanna be one of the people that people look to for, you know, advice and guidance, right? You know, everybody kind of turns and looks to somebody during a situation when things go wrong and we're trying to be that person. I'm trying to be that person, but it's also a very difficult position to be in because you don't have the answers that people need and want because they don't exist yet. Nobody has a crystal ball. And on the flip side of some of these things that we've been talking about, I think a lot of people just wanna be told what they need to do, tell me what to do and I will do it. And this has been a very confusing time where people in their own centers of influence are telling them two radically different things. Ah, it's a hoax or oh, batting down the hatches 'cause we're all gonna, you know, be impacted by this. Then it starts to have you start to doubt and then where do you get your information? And that's what I think has been a major, major eye-opener here is where do we get our information that we need when we need it, where is the trusted information we need when we need it, and how will we respond as individuals when we're being told what we, we, we we need to do to help minimize the situation.

Travis Liebig [00:29:41] But you don't have that one source that I think you can find because there's a lot of well-respected people that have very different opinions. So you're trying to assess what you can and make the best decisions that you can for yourself and obviously those that you love and then those that are around you.

Vance Crowe [00:29:55] Yeah, I, I have a friend that talks about this concept called left of bang. And I know you and I have talked about this, but if you look at a timeline and you think of like swat team, right? The, the people that throw the flash grenade into the house and then it explodes, they, they were aware of it before the bang went off, they were left of bang, everybody right of bang is reacting to the explosion. And the challenge has been for a while there, watching the news and being hyper connected with social media put you left of bang and it might have put you pretty far left of bang, but now if you're watching the news, the value that you're able to extract per hour that you listen or watch or engage with doesn't put you necessarily left of bang. It really just leaves you to seeing how are other people reacting. And that's been a hard transition for me to make because I got a lot of value outta knowing stuff early and now I gotta set it down and just get things done otherwise,

Travis Liebig [00:30:50] Yeah, I think it's information is critical and valuable and you know, when we say information's critical and valuable, it's the right information and there's, you know, hard to comb through a lot of things that are, that are right And you know, I sometimes I think about this situation because social media has the world connected and has this connected instantly and that is a great thing, you know, in this situation, you know, it's been good and bad because had we not had a lot of the information that was out there on social media, we might not have really known what was coming as soon as it was coming. But also I think that, you know, because we knew it was coming, but we knew a lot of different ways to think about that. Nobody really had a plan of action to take place. And I don't wanna get too far down that path, but let's assume that it didn't exist, social media didn't exist. There would've been a point in time where, you know, government bodies would've said, here's what you need to know and here's what we're gonna do and we're gonna do it. And I think if you look back over history, you know, during, I mean the second World War how people followed suit and they did it here it was, yeah, it was almost too late. People had their minds made up before, before it was ready, which has made this problem, I think, even tougher to fight because the only way you can really stop it that we know of now is just staying put, right. So again, you know, I don't have the all the answers on on that front, but what I do know is that, you know, it's still picking up here in Missouri and this week I think we'll continue to see it come closer to home for a lot of our associates at the bank.

Travis Liebig [00:32:21] And that's where I think the change in behavior and thinking starts to happen even more so because even though we've known it was coming, it wasn't until it hits you directly that I feel like people a lot of times fully believe that that what's been said is, is true. So it's a unique, unique situation to say the least.

Vance Crowe [00:32:38] Well Travis, I know you have a thousand things going on. I think you and I should just agree in a week or so. Let's just hop back on here and you'll know a lot more about the lending program. We'll find out what's working well, what's not working well. If people wanted to get ahold of you or St. Louis Bank, how would they do that?

Travis Liebig [00:32:56] Yeah, I think the easiest way to to find us is St. Louis bank.com, that's S-T-L-O-U-I-S-B-A-N k.com. On there we've got some of the reference material that I talked about. It's not perfect, but we put that together quickly to give people enough of the understanding of the programs and what they are and then how they could take the next steps. So that'd be the easiest way to, to get in touch with us if we could help. And I encourage people, you know, really think, who do you trust and your centers of influence continue to stay close to them. They'll be well informed on who can help. I would like to think that, you know, every bank out there is gonna help and, and, and can I think, you know, no knocking them, I think just some are gonna be better equipped with this type of program and I think some are gonna be probably more informed on the specifics of it. So it's finding the quickest pathway to get to those that I feel like are maybe more suited for what this discussion needs to be right now. And having that direct human interaction I think goes a long way to help put minds at ease. And I'll say in full disclosure and disclaimer, this is not gonna be a, a seamless, easy process, but getting it started is key and having somebody that can help

Vance Crowe [00:34:01] Keep

Travis Liebig [00:34:01] You posted would be the goal. And then, you know, some level of patience, whatever that can be at this time because I have a full appreciation of what the business owners are dealing with. But we're gonna help you know where we can to get them through and give them some peace of mind and then hopefully translate that to some of their employees as well.

Vance Crowe [00:34:18] Well brother, it's been nothing short of painful to not lift to with you two, three times a week, but it's good to see you here and thanks for all the work you're doing and we'll have you back in a week or so. So stay safe

Travis Liebig [00:34:27] There. Absolutely. Thanks

Vance Crowe [00:34:28] Man,

Travis Liebig [00:34:29] I appreciate the time. Stay safe. Bye.

Vance Crowe [00:34:30] See you.