Missouri Attorney General on Cancel Culture, Administrative State, and American Founding Principles

Eric Schmitt [00:00:00] What is the nature of that social contract? And Hobbes was writing, essentially saying that life is, you know, nasty, brutish, and short. The strong man who provides you protection, that's who you're gonna follow. Okay? So that has been the way of the world. And what makes the American experiment so unique is we're, is what we're saying is no, we can do better than that, right? You can have civil liberties, you can live in an open society, you can voice a dissenting opinion against the President of the United States, or a military leader or whatever, and you're not gonna be killed for it. As the crow flies on the Vance Crowe podcast. Welcome

Vance Crowe [00:00:33] Back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today's interview is with a man named Eric Schmidt, who happens to be the Attorney General for the state of Missouri. And this conversation came together in a way that I really could not have predicted. I have avoided having politicians on my show, mostly because I don't really want this to be a political show. I want it to be a conversation where we're pulling out ideas and we're thinking about things from all sorts of different angles. But a few weeks ago, I had a chance to meet Attorney General Schmidt, and I heard him talking about history, and I heard him talking about his philosophy on where things are going with the education institutions and what's gonna happen when mobs of people are demanding justice that is different from our judicial system. And so I decided to invite him on the podcast, and as you will see from this conversation, he does not disappoint. This is a conversation that once it gets going, he talks about things with a level of candor, clarity, and passion that I guess I just don't hear very often from very many people. So it was a very, very interesting interview. Before we get to that interview, I want to invite anybody that enjoys conversation that is illuminating, that looks at ideas from different perspectives, and a place where you can practice getting better at how you speak, how you look, how you sound, how you are communicating, and even become a better listener. Then I would invite you to join the Articulate Ventures network. There's a link below, and it is a space where people that have a genuine curiosity about how to become a tangibly better communicator can meet other people that listen to the podcast, can take classes that help them think about what am I doing well and what could I do better?

Vance Crowe [00:02:09] And also communicate and practice and put things up that show what you've been doing and allow people to give you feedback. It's the sort of gym for the mind that we don't have in very many spaces right now. So if you're interested, check out the link below or go to Articulate Ventures. That's just the name of the website. Really simple, Articulate Ventures. I hope to see you there. So now onto the interview with Attorney General Eric Schmidt, attorney General Eric Schmidt, welcome to the podcast. Thanks

Eric Schmitt [00:02:44] For having me on.

Vance Crowe [00:02:46] So you're an interesting character. You have a role in the state of Missouri that makes you the attorney for the state, which until I met you, I never actually thought about what a job like this would entail. How do you describe what an Attorney General is?

Eric Schmitt [00:03:03] Well, that's a good question because it, it, it is a, the breadth of and scope of the, of the job is, is pretty immense in the sense that you're the chief lawyer for the state. You're the chief sort of legal officer for the state of Missouri. So we represent the state in lawsuits that are brought. So when the legislature passes a law and somebody sues and says it's constitutional, not constitutional, or challenges it from a, for some other reason, we represent essentially the will of the people, right? So in different agencies, a lot of our lawsuits relate to corrections officers, just some stuff like that. We also file amicus briefs on behalf of areas that have, you know, there's a state interest that's happening around the country and maybe other federal courts. So we have a civil and a criminal side. On the civil side, a lot of what you'll see is some of the consumer protection cases that we bring. We just had a lawsuit against a timeshare exit company that was filed this past week. We did, you know, during the, well, it's still in the, the, the pandemic, a lot of the price gouging that was happening. We'll take those on when you see a bad contractor, we bring those kinds of cases. So you really have on the civil side and on the criminal side, you have cases that go all the way to the United States Supreme Court. And then you have $5,000 contractor disputes that we help resolve for citizens across the states. The scope of that is pretty immense. On the criminal side, we don't have, typically in our office original jurisdiction, local prosecutors do.

Eric Schmitt [00:04:39] So there's 114 counties in the city of St. Louis. Each one of them have their own prosecutor. We are often asked to help when there's a conflict or they just want some assistance. And that happens more often in, in rural communities where our office will come in and help try a, a murder case or something like that. But then we handle all the criminal appeals. So as those convictions are appealed and make their way through the court system, our office handles all of those. So we have, on the criminal side, that's the best probably description of what we do. So we have a, a civil and criminal division. We have about 400 people across the state that work in five different offices. Jeff City, St. Louis, Kansas City, Cape and Springfield. So, and about 200 lawyers. So it's, but it's, listen, I, one of the things that I tell people, it's just such a, it's a great office historically. You know, Edward Bates, who was Missouri's first Attorney General was Abraham Lincoln's, attorney General during the Civil War. You had names most recently names like, you know, Tom Eagleton, Jack Danforth, John Ashcroft, Josh Hawley more recently. So a lot of, you know, very familiar and historic names have, have occupied the office. But the people, the individuals I get a chance to work with who are not the Attorney general, but Assistant Attorneys general, they all have their own unique stories too, and serve the public. It's their way of, you know, pub of giving back.

Eric Schmitt [00:06:11] It's public service. We do a lot of things in the office that I think make a difference for the people of Missouri. And then we do things outside the office. One of the things that I've tried to focus on as Attorney General is, is, is allowing people to have the time and encourage people to be engaged in their own communities. For example, this weekend I'm gonna be there along with several people from our office and Ken Lock, helping clean up an area in North St. Louis County that needs some help. We've helped tear down abandoned buildings in St. Louis City. 'cause those are, you know, typically places where crime will fester. So it's a big office. So you're kind of the, the managing partner for a big law firm. On one hand, your elected officials. So you wear a bunch of different hats, but it's a great job. And

Vance Crowe [00:06:55] I would think that the, the challenge with your job, that would be very hard to see if you were just a young person looking up at the role, being like, wow, look at being in control and having all of those people work for you, and you get to make decisions, but at the end of the day, you are left to bear the weight of the decisions that you make. And people's lives truly hang in the balance, right? Most people never have anybody counting on them, or maybe just a few employees or just a few, but yours, huge things happen at your decision. Did you understand that weight before you took it on?

Eric Schmitt [00:07:32] Yeah, I mean, you have a, yes, but you also, like with any position you, you learn, right? You're learning with people that you work with. And one of the things that, that I think is really important in any leadership position is that you have good people around you. And I was very fortunate to bring in an incredible team. There's a lot of great people that were already in that office and getting to know them and making sure they have opportunities to succeed and encouraging them and giving them a platform to do the good work that they do. But we brought in, you know, I'll give you one example. Tom Alvis, who had been at the US Attorney's Office for 17 years, I got him to come over and be my first assistant, and now he's a, a judge in St. Louis County, doing good work there. So we also wanted to be a place where people come and they serve, and if they want to be in our office for a very long time, that's great. If they want to be a judge someday, that's great too. I mean, one of the great success stories, most famous probably assistant Attorney general in the history of the office is Clarence Thomas. Jack Danforth recruited Clarence Thomas outta law school to work in the ags office in

Vance Crowe [00:08:43] Missouri.

Eric Schmitt [00:08:44] In Missouri in the 1970s. And that's where he launched his career. So he has fond memories of the Ag G's office. So again, it's a very historic office, but you need good people and just like with any position. And so I think good leaders do that. They know that the success of any organization is shared success. And, and we wanna make sure that we encourage that. In the ags office,

Vance Crowe [00:09:08] You're living in an age where everything you say is recorded, even things where you don't really know, or you could be on the side of the street and somebody could come up and record you in a way that in the seventies it wouldn't have happened. It, it also seems to me that everyone, no matter what side you're on, lives on a knife's edge of could I make one mistake or did I make one mistake that will just wipe me out? Because when you're in public life, right, the public has to agree that you should be there and that, and, and you have elections. But we also now have created this alter culture, right? Where, where it's not just elections, it's not just about meritocracy of getting a job, it's people get angry and they want justice now, or they want change. Right? Now you're living in that world. What, what is it like to make decisions where things can change so quickly?

Eric Schmitt [00:09:57] Well, I think you have to, you have to get good counsel and just make the right decision. And, you know, and people are accountable for those decisions. I certainly am. But I think you want to make good decisions for the right reasons. And, and again, I think it's really important to have good people around you to seek people's opinions, even those that are different than yours. And in a broader sense, as a culture, we've gotta be very aware that the lexicon of speech is narrowing. That if we really believe in the free exchange of ideas, we have to stand up for that, that people can have different opinions. It doesn't make 'em a terrible human being. It just means that you might disagree on an issue of public policy. And I think that where we're headed right now can be very dangerous if we're not careful, because, you know, the, there's a lot of courage in, in standing up for somebody and their ability to, to say something or speak in the town square for something that you don't believe in, in fact, that you might vehemently be against. But the idea is that through that, you know, shared discourse and through those conversations, we end up in a place where people are heard. I always refer to the First Amendment as the beating heart of the Constitution, and it's our pressure release valve. Most of these disputes, even now, but certainly throughout human history, were solved by violence. I come and take your stuff, right?

Eric Schmitt [00:11:30] I mean, you club somebody over the head, that has been the way of the world. And so this great experiment that we're in, that hope we get a chance to talk about a little bit more historically, is very unique in that when we have these disagreements, we have two ways of dealing with people can, you know, have their say, but we also have a court system, right? So as a lawyer, you take that very seriously, that disputes that people have that may have been solved in years past or in other places around the globe that don't have our, our system of justice. They're solved in the courtroom. And we accept those results. And the integrity of those institutions are really important so that we can all pursue our dreams with a level of safety. We, we come to expect,

Vance Crowe [00:12:10] You and I had a very interesting conversation about history. In fact, I, if I had guessed what I was gonna talk when I first met the Attorney General, I would not have thought, well, we're gonna go talk about hundreds of years ago, but you have a different perspective on the way justice and the system was set up that I had never heard of before. You were always a student in history. Where did you, where did you come up with this way of thinking about the past?

Eric Schmitt [00:12:34] Well, I was always interested in, in, in history, in government, in politics. Not sure I ever thought I would run, but that was my background as an undergrad. And then going to law school, obviously the law is very important for establishing. And the reason why I wanted to be a lawyer, nobody in my family had been a lawyer. I was the first person in my family growing up in North St. Louis County, in a pretty blue collar background to go to college, right outta high high school. And, but I knew early on I wanted to be a lawyer because I felt like the law gave, provided guardrails for people to pursue their dreams, that you needed to make sure that those rules were set so people could, again, live the American dream. And so I went to law school and of course my legal career and now is ag but a couple years ago, I taught a 21st century American civics class at St. Louis University, which was my alma mater, which about half upperclassmen and women and law students. And in fact, a few of those law students that took the class are now working in the office, which is, which is kind of cool. But I was, I felt compelled to do it because of some of the things we just talked about that, you know, you feel like descent is being squeezed out, that differing opinions are being pushed to the far corners of the quad on college campuses. That free speech, especially at that age when people are exploring new ideas and kind of branching out, is really important to protect. And so the class was really kind of a tour de force of, of history. And, and essentially, if you could boil it down, is that the way of the world has always been to sort of subjugate Mike makes, right?

Eric Schmitt [00:14:12] And that people accumulate power. And we lived under the world, under a world of the divine right of kings, and we were subjects. And then, you know, you sort of have this age of the American Enlightenment, and we're the first country founded on a, a philosophy, a creed, you know, and we just celebrated the 4th of July, which is why I think it's really important for people to read the Declaration of Independence, that, that all men are created equal, that we're endowed by our creator with a certain unalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That was revolutionary because what the founders were saying was that everybody had it backwards, right? That our rights don't come from a king. They don't come from a queen, they don't come from any temporal authority. They predate government, they come from God, right? And government is just our shared project then to protect those God-given rights. So that is a very revolutionary concept. And why we, when we talk about American exceptionalism, that's what we mean. America is exceptional in that way and still in many pa places in the world today. But certainly back in 1776 when the founders made that declaration, a war was fought over it. And our constitution really is that framework then to protect those rights of spreading out authority, of limited government, of separation, of powers, federalism. All of that is meant to disperse power so that no one single person can have, can accumulate the power that we've seen, the abuses that, you know, across history. And so you have that sort of on the political side.

Eric Schmitt [00:15:44] And then historically, and I think this is something that is to me, is fascinating and certainly not an original thought by me. Jonah Goldberg's talked about this and Ben SaaS in some ways, that if you think about it, we've had four big economic systems, epochs, if you will, in, in sort of the history of, of humanity. You know, we were hundreds and gatherers for a very, very long time, right? And then for tens of thousands of years, we're settled agrarian farmers. And then about 150, 170 years ago comes the big tool economy, the industrial revolution. And things start to change pretty quickly, right? And so from the Civil War to around World War ii, 50 to 60% of the population had moved from the farm to the city. That is really disruptive, right? That is in, in the, in the history.

Vance Crowe [00:16:34] I refer to it as the largest migration of human beings in the history of time.

Eric Schmitt [00:16:37] Yes.

Vance Crowe [00:16:38] We had never seen so much change go from people living and thinking and communicating in these small clusters of people decentralized way out in the countryside. News moved much, much slower. But now you're bringing them together and everything changes. There's, I, I interviewed a guy who one times talked about if you increase the population density of a group, the people will walk faster. And in fact, you can measure how fast people walk and tell how dense of a city they live in. And so you think about when we went from people moving very slow agrarian lifestyle to bang, speeding up how fast they walk, exactly what you're talking about, the culture is gonna change faster and faster and faster and faster.

Eric Schmitt [00:17:20] Well, and one other thing too is, and then whatever it is that we're in now, right? Which is, you can call it the computer age, the tech age, the post industrialism, which just means people don't really know what to call it. But whatever we're in right now that started, you and I are about the same age, sort of, I was born in 1975. So you start to see the advancement computers start to go, and you think about how quickly things are changing. Now, what it took to map the human genome a decade ago, can, you know, now can be done in about an hour. And that probably, now that was, that's last time I looked at that was probably almost 10 years ago. It's probably like 10 minutes now. But the pace of change and innovation is accelerating. And that's not gonna, that's not gonna change. I mean, that's the trajectory that we're on. And so, you know, that poses really interesting questions. And to put it in another way, and Jonah Goldberg's talked about this, which is things an interesting author. But if you think about the history of humanity, let's just say 250,000 years, and you were an alien from outer space, and you visited Earth every 10,000 years, okay? You, your first visit would be, you know, semi hairless apes, wandering the countryside, fighting and foraging for food, okay? That would be your first visit. That would be your second visit. That would be your third visit. That would be your first 23 visits every 10,000 years. That's what you would see. Okay? And then on your 24th visit, it starts to change a little bit, right? You see dots on the countryside, you see more settled agrarian farmers, you see more trade and commerce.

Eric Schmitt [00:18:55] And then on the 25th time you arrive and you know, NORAD stops, you, you see the Super Bowl halftime show, all the stuff that we live in. But what the point is, all of the things that we sort of live with now have happened, not just in the last 10,000 years. That's actually not even fair. The last 300 years really, you know? And so you combine that rapid change with what we were just talking about with the philosophical statement that the founders made, that has created this, this system now where people can live freer, you know, more people are out of poverty. So you combine, you know, our Republican democracy with capitalism, and that is the world that we live in today. So it's, it's unnatural in many ways, right? So we gotta protect it. And why, why I'm so passionate about these kinds of things and making sure the rule of law remains intact. And that as we're educating people, civics is really important. 'cause if you don't have that foundation, it makes things more challenging. But if you do have the foundation, you realize we can get past some of these disputes we have and appreciate and have gratitude for the system that we're in right now.

Vance Crowe [00:20:01] So civics education is something that when I was growing up, not a controversial subject, right? It was George Washington cut down the cherry tree, Abraham Lincoln lived in a log cabin, and then you would progressively, you'd start these mythologies, and then by the time you got to high school, you were, at least in the state of Illinois, you were taking the constitution test. So you both knew what was going on with US Constitution, you knew what was going on with your state constitution. And it, and I, as far as I can tell, the education that I received about our system, and the one that my father had 40 years before me was relatively similar. But if you go look at my nephew's civics education and the path that they're on, it really appears very different. Now, I, when I say something like that, I have to wonder in the back of my mind, is that because I've gone from being the young liberal, I'm open to all sorts of new ideas, and now I want everything to be the same. Or is it actually changing as fast as I perceive? Is it, is it, is it a matter that I'm getting older and don't want change? Or what, what is it?

Eric Schmitt [00:21:01] No, I think it's actually changing. And my, my point of view is, even in my class that I taught the civics class, I don't want, I mean, I'm realistic. Not everybody is gonna agree with me. I, that would be an unrealistic expectation that everybody would, you know, that isn't the point. The point is that if we appreciate these basic foundations that are, you know, in the Bill of Rights and things like that, we have a commonality. We have shared values, right? And we should be celebrating more of those shared values. What you see now as a more of a tearing apart, I think social media plays a role in that, of course. But the statistics don't lie. You know, American pride is at its lowest level in decades. Over 40% of Americans under the age of 35 believe the First Amendment is dangerous. Which is,

Vance Crowe [00:21:50] Is that right?

Eric Schmitt [00:21:50] Which is crazy to me. One in 10 Americans believe Judge Judy is on the Supreme Court of the United States. So that's a problem. And I'm talking about the, the daytime judge on tv, right? So we haven't done a very good job of, of teaching it. It hasn't been a priority. One of my favorite things when I was a state senator representing St. Louis County for eight years, was when school groups would come to the Capitol and they walk around that, that capitol, which is really a temple to our, to our democracy, right? And the inscriptions that are on those walls and the history that's there. And you get to talk about these big things and you can just see their minds expanding. And they ask questions, you know, some of 'em are great, you know, the younger they are, they ask if you have to wear a uniform, you know, things like that. But, you know, you get some insightful questions from kids, and that's important. And there's fewer and fewer classes that go to Jeff City now, and certainly for a field trip, you know? And there's certainly less of an emphasis in our classrooms on civics education. And I think it's had a disastrous effect because if, if we don't teach that and people become adults without the foundation of understanding kind of how we got where we're at, and a real gratitude, and it, by the way, the work to have a more perfect union continues, you know, America's the greatest vessel for the advancement of human dignity in the history of the world. But we always have work to do. And, but it's important to have those kinds of conversations.

Eric Schmitt [00:23:23] And if we, if we, so as

Vance Crowe [00:23:24] You were, as you're, as you're talking about, like, it's, it's a monument or it's a, a temple to the, the, the Great American experiment.

Eric Schmitt [00:23:33] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:23:34] I, I have to wonder, because I'm reading 1984 right now, I find this book fascinating. And when you're reading that book, you certainly put yourself in the perspective of Winston, the small guy that's, you know, swept up into this system. And he's starting to see that the inner party and the outer party, maybe not things that he wants to agree with. How are you certain that you're just not a part of the inner party and you're just convinced that the system, that this is a temple and everybody should, should celebrate at it, as opposed to this is massively oppressing other people, and that we just aren't hearing, or we, when we look at it, we see a, a castle, and when they look at it, they see prison gates.

Eric Schmitt [00:24:13] Sure. Well, I think, look, that examination is always healthy to have at any moment in history, no matter what society you're in. But I think if you take a step back, and you, and again, this is why I think understanding the historical context in which we live, you know, most people have lived, you know, in a, in a hobbesian kinda world where it was nasty, brutish, and short, the way of the world was extreme poverty and a lot of violence, okay? So what we've carved out in this world in the last few hundred years is very unique. It's a system where people can live their lives and they can choose, titles don't matter. You can persuade someone to marry you. I mean that, think about that, that did not exist. You can persuade someone to actually marry you. You can be willing to be persuaded. So my my belief is that in openness with the structure, and not a predetermined path necessarily, but the idea that we, we are living in a society with some guardrails that provide security for people to speak their own minds and live their own life. If they want to be a farmer, great. If they want to be an astronaut, great. And this has really come to light. You know, we sued with the coronavirus here. We sued China. We were the first state to sue the People's Republic of China and the Communist Party. Yeah. And, and if you, and if you read our complaint, which was the first of its kind to really lay all this out in one document of what they knew, when they knew it, what they did to cover it up, the lies that they told and the disastrous impact it's had across the globe that we're still living with.

Eric Schmitt [00:25:44] What you see is, is the real danger of what an authoritarian regime can really do. That's not open. That's not honest. And so I, you know, we mentioned earlier that our structure of government and our system to allow people the maximum amount of liberty is to disperse power. And it's really that, that space. And, and I think this is an important concept between the individual and the state. That space in between is where we really live our lives, and we have cultural pluralism. People belong. I mean, interestingly, Tocqueville comes to America if anybody's never read it. Democracy in America, it's a, it's a big read, but don't read it all at once. It's like a, it's a travel log. So read it in these different chunks. But Tocqueville comes to America in the 1820s, 1830s, in the early part of the 19th century, because for a lot of Europe, we weren't really free until after the war of 1812. And they, okay, America's its own place now. So we are our own country, and there's all this economic dynamism happening here. There's religious freedom, right? And so Europe thought we're a bunch of religious malcontents that came here. We fought off the British and some big upset,

Vance Crowe [00:26:52] Oh, I never thought about the fact that the Europeans wouldn't actually know. You can't just get on Google Maps or open the textbook. You don't have any idea what's going on over there,

Eric Schmitt [00:27:01] Right? So Tocqueville comes here, gets on a boat, comes here, and he's expecting to think to, you know, what's, what's going on in America. And the belief, you know, was that, you know, we just had better bureaucrats than they had in Europe. And he found out that wasn't the case. And he went to Washington, DC and there wasn't a lot of innovation. And it was a swamp. And the joke is, of course, that not much has changed in a couple hundred years, but he went out into the, to many of the several states. And what he found was that the uniqueness of America, what made America thrive, what was making America this emerging superpower? And he's very predictive in the rise of America. And this is back before anybody considered us to be a superpower, right? Was that we are a nation of joiners, right? We have this cultural pluralism. We belong to a church, you know, nowadays, the Rotary Club, you know, we've got all these different interests. And by the way, that is the real danger with identity politics is it just sort of crystallizes people to one thing. And we're, we're way more complex people than that. And we all have different interests. You know, I'm a dad, I'm a Cardinal fan, I'm a, you know, I'm a

Vance Crowe [00:28:15] Republican. The things that transcend what you were born with and allow your intellect to be the thing that connects with other people and your interests and your passions and your, that's what allows you to transcend where was I born and how do I join this, this fabric that is, that is a community and

Eric Schmitt [00:28:33] Have that commonality with people and have shared values, right? And so that space between the state and the individual is maximized in America, right? Because we don't have this, and we wanna guard, at least my political philosophy, is you want to guard against the oppressive state to tell you what to do and to tell you what to say and to tell you what to wear. Because in that freedom that we have, we're allowed to be ourselves. We can find, you know, people of of different interests, learn that, you know, your neighbor doesn't have to have all the same beliefs. They may not have the same yard sign you have up, but they're a good person, right? And they work hard. And I will, you know, go to bat for my neighbor and build a sense of community. And, and that's what Toque Hill found in America. I still believe that's true today. But there are challenges, right? There's trouble on the horizon. You've gotta, you know, people are trying to drown out descent, those mediating institutions that are really important, as Tocqueville talks about, like church, these, these nonprofit organizations that people are involved in. They're shrinking. Some of that is the technology age. And you can sort of correlate that with a sense of loneliness and people, you know, there's a lot of things that are happening. And again, this disruptive age that we live in, we're in a fascinating time. And it's true, it's very true to say it's unprecedented in human history, the time that we live in the level of disruption, economic disruption, social disruption. So it's a challenge for us, but I think we're up for it. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:29:56] The disruption you're talking about, like is a question of do people believe that they can get justice in this world, right? Whether it's for them or for their community, or for the group that they're with. And I remember, I, so I lived in graduate school with a guy from Afghanistan, he's a Fulbright scholar, and we talked about he lived there before the Taliban really came in and took over, and he talked about what it was that made it pee. We have this feeling that all of the villagers hated the Taliban from the moment they showed up, and they didn't want anything to do with them. And, and, but those guys were just strong arms. But it turns out, Zuber said that the, the people would have a problem with somebody stole some land from me, somebody took something from my family, something happened. But they had no judicial system,

Eric Schmitt [00:30:45] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:30:45] So when the Taliban rolled in, they're like, Hey, if you start listening to us for court cases, we'll met out the justice and whoever decides right or wrong, we will go enact that justice. And the people welcomed it because they had been living in lawlessness, and they were willing to give an authoritarian over lawlessness. And he said, if you gave them that choice again, they'd choose the Taliban again, even for all the terrible things they did to them.

Eric Schmitt [00:31:09] What you're hitting on is at the core, we talked about political philosophy before the Enlightenment and the American Enlightenment, Thomas Hobbes, who wrote the Leviathan, right? Leviathan was the beginning of this social contract theory, right? That in order for people to feel safe, they will give up a certain amount of liberty, right? And that is always the, that's always the tug in the pool of government

Vance Crowe [00:31:38] That's going on with Coronavirus, right?

Eric Schmitt [00:31:39] Right. It's always the tug between the individual and government, but forever and still to this day. And you're giving an example of like, you know, in the last decade, two decades, right? Of what is, what is the nature of that social contract? And Hobbes was writing essentially saying that life is, you know, nasty, brutish, and short. The strong man who provides you protection, that's who you're gonna follow. Okay? So that has been the way of the world. And what makes the American experiments so unique is we're, is what we're saying is no, we can do better than that, right? You can have civil liberties, you can live in an open society, you can voice a dissenting opinion against the President of the United States, or a military leader or whatever, and you're not gonna be killed for it. So that, you know, this kind of experiment, which is unique and unprecedented, and, and I believe we'll stand the test of time, but there are doubters, right? There are doubters who believe that what you're talking about and what happens in authoritarian regimes to this day, like in China and in other places, that there, that that system's gonna win out because that's what we've had through most of, you know, history. So anyway, I, I think that's why, again, getting back to civics, it's so important for people to understand the historical context, to understand human nature. And the founders knew and understood human nature very, very well, which is why you have in the Federalist Papers where, and I think it's great that, you know, people are, are watching Hamilton and kind of a new spin on history and, and learning about it. Because in the Federalist Papers where they're arguing for the adoption of this constitution, you've got the Declaration of Independence in 1776, you fight a war, the articles of articles of Confederation exists, which is this loosely tied group of states.

Eric Schmitt [00:33:19] There's no central government at all. It's not working. You have trade barriers being put up between like Virginia and Maryland and it's not working. And so they go to the constitutional convention, they say there's gotta be a better way. So the bargain is we will give the federal government, the central government limited powers, very limited powers, we all have to agree on the states retain to this day way more power than the federal government's supposed to have. Now, that's changed.

Vance Crowe [00:33:47] It feels like it's the opposite. It feels like

Eric Schmitt [00:33:49] It now, it's going because, you know, and if people, you were to ask people, again, this is why civics is important. We ask people to sort of rank the hierarchy of government. They go federal, state, local. Well, the truth of the matter is the states stand at the center of that because the states have granted the federal government authority, they came together in a contract, which is the constitution for that limited authority. And the reason why they had the Bill of Rights to say, wait a minute, now we're doing this, but there are these protections we want everyone to know about. Right? You got a right to speak your mind. You got a right to bear arms. You got all these rights in our judicial system. And by the way, anything that we're not mentioning here, those are rights too. But the states retain a lot of control, right? That is the Bill of rights. So, you know, I think understanding that the states granted the federal government, that authority, which is why those limited powers and checking them is important. And then also at the local level, the states grant locals the ability to, you know, create a city and then have certain, you know, ordinances that they can decide on. But so

Vance Crowe [00:34:46] What's the exchange then? So if we're giving these powers to the state, the individual within the state of Missouri is giving it over to the state. What's the state's responsibility to protect people? I mean, you're in that position where you're having people right now that feel so threatened that they, they go out into their front lawns, brandishing weapons, right? And you can look at that from one angle and say, how dare a human being threaten somebody else with a weapon? And then you have other people saying, this is absolutely 100% the American way that you, if somebody's threatening your property, you should, you should be able to, you know, protect yourself. Where does the state come out on this? What's the state's responsibility to met this problem out? Well,

Eric Schmitt [00:35:23] It's a great question. I mean, think, I think one of the things that's important to keep in mind is that, and we, something we talked about earlier, that what the founders were saying was that we have rights that predate government, right? The right to defend yourself, the right to speak your mind, the right to petition government, the right to write about things. You know, the freedom of the press, the right, you know, for you to have a, a, a podcast and have your voice be heard. Those are, those are rights that we're born with. They're so central to who we are that we're born with 'em. And government is there to protect those rights. And so the state has authority, obviously, to regulate, to protect those rights. If they see injustices, the state can right those wrongs, of course. But it's a balance. And that's what's beautiful about the system. And if you take a step back, the debates that go on, I'm sorry, I'm using a lot of hand motion.

Vance Crowe [00:36:15] Oh, that's great. I mean, I do too. Yeah.

Eric Schmitt [00:36:17] You know, that's the media training, you know, that, that I never took stay in the golden

Vance Crowe [00:36:22] Triangle here. Right?

Eric Schmitt [00:36:22] Right. But, but you know, that's the balance. And that is why free and open discussion is so important that you and I might disagree on it, that's okay. You know. But the, the biggest challenge where I think we're in right now is that we're, you know, whether you want to call it cancel culture or whatever it is, like if somebody's got a different opinion, you know, you need to ruin their life. You know, they need to be exiled. It's not healthy. And by the way, it will lead to greater resentment. And again, well,

Vance Crowe [00:36:56] People will go to places where, where no one is listening except for their little cluster. So no other new ideas are there. Nobody being like, Hey, wait a second, we may be going too far here. If you push people into alleys, into dark corners, into the recesses of the world, they'll go there. And what happens when they don't have their ideas out in the sunshine, where other people can be like, Hey guys, let's talk about this. Are you sure that's the way you wanna look? Things get dark quick.

Eric Schmitt [00:37:20] Well, right, and think about it. I've got a, a mug. My dad worked for Anheuser-Busch for 30 years, so I got a lot of beer steins in my office at home, but I've got one, which is an a, a famous Norman Rockwell painting of the, I think it's entitled, freedom of Speech. And it's this man, you know, a a humble guy speaking up at a town hall, right? If you think about that kind of interaction, right? Of somebody going to an open forum like that, speaking out people looking at somebody eye to eye, having a conversation, that is a very different thing than living in a virtual silo where, you know, you can have your opinions expressed only with the people who agree with you. And in a, in a forum like Twitter where everybody believes the same thing necessarily, that's the group that you're in, that's not healthy, right? And so I think making sure we have free and open discussion in forums is really important and needs to be protected. Because as I said earlier, the first amendment's really our pressure release valve, because the way of the world and to solve most disputes, even today, is through violence. And we don't, and there should be no room for that at all. Whether it's on the left or the right, or whoever. We all should be denouncing any form of violence when

Vance Crowe [00:38:30] Amen. Amen. Because there is no violence begets more violence, always.

Eric Schmitt [00:38:35] Always.

Vance Crowe [00:38:36] And the only way it stops is if you bring in somebody that has so much power that they wipe everybody out, and then you're in just as bad a spot.

Eric Schmitt [00:38:43] Yep.

Vance Crowe [00:38:44] Changing subjects, you, you mentioned consumer protections and you mentioned things like, Hey, it's our responsibility to, to step in for, for things like price gouging. And I, I, I think there's some nuance there that'd be interesting to discuss, but the thing that's on my mind right now is that the founding fathers could not possibly have imagined what it would be like if we strapped trillions of dollars of debt into our youngest workers in order that they can get a piece of paper that says, Hey, corporation, if you hire this person, you can pay them within this price band, because other people that have that same degree also get, get paid within that price band. So you can't be blamed for having any sort of discrimination. So in order to get that piece of paper, you have to pay extreme amounts of money. You go into debt to take on those student loans, you get into the corporation. And now if you lose that job, the, the thing that carries you to another place is do you have that piece of paper? And I think universities have gone amuck in how much they're charging students and what they're delivering. And I think that it's been allowed to, it, it's not just the university's fault. There's all these forces coming together. The, the government saying you can't declare bankruptcy on student loans. Corporations want not wanting to get sued. What do you think is the state's role in, in netting this out? Because I think that the student loan debt prepares us for a situation where a strong man can come in and say, come with me. I will wipe out your debts. All you have to do is give me power.

Eric Schmitt [00:40:14] Well, I think we're, and maybe what you're getting at here is I think we're on the verge, and I don't know what it looks like, I don't presume to know, but a massive disruption as it relates to higher education. Because the idea that we have a model that's still based after the Oxford model, that's a few, at least a few hundred years old now, of educating people in this age of economic disruption. We just talked about how quickly things can change. The idea that you'll know everything you need to know and learn from the ages of, you know, 18 to 22 for the rest of your life is gonna change. It's not realistic anymore. And, and if you graduate, I gave a commencement a year ago about this and, and mentioned this, where a college graduate today. So again, thinking about this as early as the the, or as recently as the early 1980s, Jo, and we talk about job change. Most people, in fact, well over 80% of people, they weren't just in one industry, their entire working lifetime. They were in one job. Right? You got a job. And this was a lot of my family experience. I had an uncle that worked at at and t for 30 years, another uncle that worked an Anheuser-Busch for 30 years. My dad worked, my dad was, it was interesting. My dad started out as a, as a butcher and went to night school at Lindenwood and got his degree while he had a young family. So he worked during the day, went to night school.

Vance Crowe [00:41:45] Oh, we will revisit this 'cause I wanna talk about the butchers in the state of Missouri.

Eric Schmitt [00:41:49] Yeah. So, but he, anyway, so he gets his college degree and works at Anheuser-Busch for 30 years, another uncle that worked at Boeing for 30 years. That doesn't happen anymore, right? I mean, you've got people graduating from college today that will not just change jobs, but careers, entire industries, three times in their first decade of work. And that's only gonna accelerate, right? And so, do we have a university or higher education model that addresses that? Right now we don't. And you know, I think a lot of universities are stubborn in this regard. There's a model that they've created that has worked well for them, but it's not really working well for the people. And especially, you know, not just the students, but the middle class families who want their kids to have a, you know, a better life. We want every generation to do better than the last, I know, certainly as a dad, that's what I want from my kids. I want them to get a great education and have every opportunity right here in Missouri. I don't want 'em to have to go anywhere else to do that. I, and selfishly I want them to be here and then, you know, hopefully they have grandkids, you know, have grandkids and they're in, you know, Missouri and all that. So,

Vance Crowe [00:42:53] And in my, in my theoretical knowledge of economics, right, about how the, how the world functions best it is when human beings are able to go to a job very easily. Somebody says, I have a problem, you have a solution. I'm willing to pay you for that exchange. And maybe you come in for six months, maybe you come in for two years, maybe you come in for 10 years, doesn't really matter, but that you can leave and enter smoothly. But now the, the, the fear of litigation, the fear of being sued as a corporation means that they take so much longer. And you could say, well, that's protecting the individual. So that, that way, if they are mistreated by a corporation, then they have the ability to protect themselves. But the flip side of that is then we gum up these, these organizations, if you become a company of a certain size, you can no longer freely hire people and let them go and push them towards getting more education. And we're, we're limiting the signals that people have that you're becoming obsolete because your skills are not up to date. And instead of clearing that out quickly and saying, Hey, you know, you're, you're a little behind. Go, go learn some more things and come right back. And it's easy to bring you out and bring you back in. We have some different system now. And if this doesn't change, how do American corporations in general grow and, and thrive? Well,

Eric Schmitt [00:44:07] It's, well, what's interesting is you are right. Like you're gonna have a lot more 50 year olds that need different skills to adapt who still have a decade of work left in them, right? Like, or more, we've gotta figure this out for people because we all know what earned success means. You know, whatever happiness quotient you believe in, earned success plays a big role in that, right? And so people, oh,

Vance Crowe [00:44:38] That's interesting. Tell me more about that. What, what is this?

Eric Schmitt [00:44:40] Well, I mean, I, so there's a lot of different theories on, you know, what is happiness? Arthur Brooks wrote a book called The Conservative Heart a few years ago, and he was the executive,

Vance Crowe [00:44:51] I have it upstairs. I didn't, you know, Arthur Brooks?

Eric Schmitt [00:44:53] Yeah, I've

Vance Crowe [00:44:53] Met him. I had a chance to meet him. He's a very interesting character. He's one of those people that, when I first met him, I was like, you are foe Zen master guy. And then you start listening to him and you're like, no, you're actually a Zen master guy. Yeah, he's

Eric Schmitt [00:45:04] A smart guy. Well, it's interesting that it's,

Vance Crowe [00:45:05] He's got,

Eric Schmitt [00:45:06] I was educated by Jesuits and he's got a lot of sort of Jesuit influence too. I told him that. And so I've got, I've been invited to be part of this, A EI, which was the group, he was part of American Enterprise.

Vance Crowe [00:45:16] Me too. Oh, really? I was in, yes, I was in the class, I think after years. And by the way, I have a degree from Marquette, so I'm also a Jesuit. Alright, there you go. I, I believe deeply in the, in the learning philosophy. See,

Eric Schmitt [00:45:26] This is the commonality that we can only have when we have a, you know, cultural pluralism. But yeah, no, so in, in that book, he talks about, you know, a lot of what his writings have been about what, what is happiness? What makes you happy? And, you know, there's a lot of it that sort of the things you can control or your, you know, family, faith and work knowing that pe somebody relies on you when you get up right in the morning and you go to work, or you're doing what you do, that somebody's counting on you that what you do matters and you get meaning from it. And that earned success has a lot to do with how we feel, right? And, and our outlook on the world. And that's really important. So when we talk about education, it's not, we're not talking about it in a vacuum or in a silo. It has a profound impact on people for the rest of their lives. And so, you're right, people entering and exiting is really important. I think there's a really, and I gave a speech to the community college group a couple years ago. There's a great opportunity for these community colleges to step into that role. Whereas as, as opposed to just being viewed as sort of a feeder school as they were before, like a junior, you know, a junior college and then people, but, you know, go to go to a four year after that. And that's still an important role to play if people, it's very economical to do so. But if somebody wants to gather a different skill or something's changed, or the economic landscape that they can move in and out of an institution of higher education to develop those skills and have that kind of meaning and continue to work for decades is important. And I don't know.

Vance Crowe [00:46:54] Well, I think one of, one of the parts of this culture change that is going to happen is that because people have pulled their kids outta the regular school system, they now have seen some of their kids blossom in ways they had never thought before. So they're gonna think about education in a different way. And now the the fundamental drumbeat of university, university, university, that is the, if you were a successful kid in high school, then your next step is obviously college. I think that's gonna be questioned in a very real way. I have an intern right now who said, if I go back to school, at most, I can go to one third of my classes is in person, otherwise it's online and we're not changing my tuition. And he's a super sweet guy. He wants the university succeed. He loves that experience, but he's also looking and saying, I don't know, it, it, should I take on that debt?

Eric Schmitt [00:47:41] Yeah. Well, the cor the coronavirus is I think opening up people's eyes too of a different way. We need to get better at it, but a different way that people can be educated. So this brick and mortar model of building a bunch of buildings on campus and having the, and you know, and the part of the reason why tuition is so high is that, you know, everybody's trying to keep up with the Joneses on what that new building looks like or what that dorm looks like. Maybe that's gonna change it a little bit, right? And that people value different things moving forward. And I, I think there's a space for a massive disruption. Again, I don't pretend to know what that looks like, but I think it's coming and it will probably be better for it.

Vance Crowe [00:48:19] So the massive disruption I see going on right now, I'm, I'm connected with a lot of farmers and when coronavirus hit, I had the experience of trying to order meat and at the grocery store and I, I could get some, but I couldn't get anywhere near what I wanted. And so I ended up talking with some farmers that raised cattle and I ended up getting a steer. In fact, I got more than I could handle because once I started looking, however, it, it revealed a part of our system that has some lags in it. Like we created so much regulation in order that our meat processing be safe, that no one ever be in danger. That it made it so only these enormous processing facilities could handle the, the weight of this. And it also brought down, it had, it had tremendous benefits. Benefits that are difficult to name in fact, that people that were poor could get access to animal protein on a scale that you couldn't anywhere else in the world. But the flip side is when, when we start having some of those processing plants shut down. Now if a farmer wants to sell you a steer and have it butchered, they have to break the law in order to do that. Like they had to, they had to bend some things, they had to. But I think that what we've discovered is that hyper localism, the way of making our food system way more resilient is to say, how can this farmer right here find an, a group of people that want his cow and make it so he can deliver it to them healthfully, safely and, and without too much burden.

Eric Schmitt [00:49:47] Well, one thing you're bringing up, which is a really interesting and a huge topic, but is regulation, right? That's a, it's its own kind of subset and it can kind of all get lumped together. But one of the things that we did in our office when you sort of, we led off with, and it maybe sounded super boring, so hopefully people didn't turn off the podcast when I started describing the office. But one of the things that we do too is you can be a thought leader on issues as it relates to regulation. I had a chance to lead a discussion nationally about some of the things that we're doing in Missouri by way of regulation. Some of it's spurred, deregulation, spurred by the coronavirus. So we did early on where the first Ag office in the country to write, we represent our client agencies or a lot of these boards and commissions, right? The medical licensing boards, the cosmetology, all the, you know, we represent them in a number of different ways. We wrote a letter saying, look, we think that you should be making people's lives easier not harder. We think that you ought to look hard at the, at regs that you can waive fees, you can, you know, get rid of, and deadlines you can extend. Well, that is leading to a very robust discussion across the state, including in our office of, well, and by the way, one high profile example that we advocated for was people being able to take, you know, a drink if they wanna order, you know, something from a restaurant. You know, when people aren't able to sit in the restaurants that you can buy a margarita while you're at it. I mean, that was illegal

Vance Crowe [00:51:14] In Missouri, which is crazy. It doesn't have a sealed cap on it. Yeah, that's, yeah.

Eric Schmitt [00:51:18] Right. So, but now what can we do moving forward? Right? Should you have to have all of this training to be a barber or to braid hair? I mean, really it creates economic barriers to people to pursue their dreams. And so we're, we're gonna move forward with that aggressively to say, look, there's a better way to do this. Some of the things we thought about that, you know, that maybe people didn't think about, 'cause they've been on the books for decades, and maybe it was a decent idea 40 years ago, but it certainly isn't now. Let's

Vance Crowe [00:51:49] Get rid of Well, I can, I can tell you that I have one that's really close to my heart, which is, and I think it would solve a major problem in every, in every state that enacted it, which, like, we have a problem with pain in this country. We have a problem with people having back pain, knee pain, whatever. And a lot of that stems from not feeling productive, not being a part of the economy. It all mixes together. And, and so then we end up having opiate problems and people are trying to solve, like is it that we should regulate who can get those pills or who can distribute them? But right now, in the state of Missouri, if you want to see a physical therapist that was trained at literally the best physical therapy program in the country in wa at Washington University, you have to first have someone else write you a prescription that this person can see you about your knee pain or your back pain. So you, you can go to an anesthesiologist and say, I have back pain. And they can write you a script that says, now you have permission to go see a physical therapist. And it creates a block and it forces people to go through the insurance system. And it's insane.

Eric Schmitt [00:52:52] Well, it's not the only example I, I think actually one of the things it weren't, weren't even on the examples I was talking about, alcohol and other things, but certainly healthcare industry, we saw some of these ridiculous regulations that prevented people from getting care. You know, with, with COVID-19 crisis, I mean, you know, nurses ought to be able to, to do a little bit more telemedicine. We ought to encourage that, you know, but there are all these blocks and some of it is a payment structure that is again, antiquated and doesn't work for people and makes healthcare way more expensive than it needs to be also. But I think making healthcare more accessible to people online is, is just a simple thing that we can do that we've

Vance Crowe [00:53:35] Learned and everybody wants it except for the, except for the small group of people that are in power. Yeah.

Eric Schmitt [00:53:40] And then

Vance Crowe [00:53:41] Well-meaning people that say, Hey, we had some problems and we wanna create rules that make it so those problems don't happen. But as we do it, we strip the autonomy of the individuals. And I mean, for me, when I saw what can change with somebody through something as simple as physical therapy and you say the government is stopping people from being able to do that, to me, my definition of the word evil is creating suffering where it is not needed. Right. Where it's unnecessary. So to me, anything that we can do to remove the barriers from people getting healthcare simply and easily and quickly is a way that you're eliminating evil from the world.

Eric Schmitt [00:54:20] Yeah. Well, look, I think we got a lot, and I'll also point out as Attorney General, one of, one of my stated goals is, is is to take on this administrative state that has developed over the last, and some people call it the deep state. You know, there's a bunch of names for it. But really since the New Deal era, government agencies have been empowered. We talked about the founders way more. This is one thing actually, maybe the greatest threat to our republic is, and I, what is what has come of age that the founders never saw coming, which was these unelected bureaucrats who are accountable to nobody issuing letters or opinions or rules that have the force and effect of law that are never voted on by Congress, never gone through that kind of scrutiny. And it has a huge impact on people's lives. And so, you know, there's a lot of cases making their way through the federal courts and ultimately the Supreme Court to unwind some of that. And we're a big part. That is one of the things in our office that we're very focused on, and me personally, 'cause I believe it does stifle innovation, it stifles creativity, it inhibits liberty and it's very under the radar. It's not something that's gonna be on NBC nightly news, right? It's just something that's so pervasive now,

Vance Crowe [00:55:38] Man, that's a dragon. And I wonder if people realize how dangerous it is for somebody to take that on. Because as a voting block, the federal, federal government employee, there are more people employed by the federal government than any other company in the United States. So it goes federal government, Walmart, right? And oh, actually I think it's the military, federal government and Walmart. And like, so if you go to take that on, you are talking about in every single state in the country, you have a huge percentage of your and a large percentage of your population that are employed by the federal government. And you're talking about changing that system.

Eric Schmitt [00:56:12] Well, listen, it's a, it's a misallocation of resources. The idea that we have be, you know, nobody, when I talk to farmers or ranchers, they don't know who the undersecretary of compliance for the Department of Packet,

Vance Crowe [00:56:25] Right?

Eric Schmitt [00:56:26] They don't know who that is. They didn't elect that person. And if you want accountability, we gotta get back to this idea. And part of this is Congress's fault, to be honest. Congress has willfully sort of said, we're gonna pass, you know, name the title, greatest legislation, waters

Vance Crowe [00:56:41] Of the US

Eric Schmitt [00:56:41] America Act. And then they empower these agencies to do all the dirty work. And that's gotta change. That is not consistent with our sort of system of, of checks and balances and accountability and all, all those sort of things we talked about earlier. We gotta, we gotta change that. And I, and I, again, I think that if you want to supercharge this engine that is economic engine, that is America, that's one way to do it.

Vance Crowe [00:57:04] I came to this conclusion about the bureaucracy, the same one that you're at when I went to Washington DC and I was a huge supporter of government programs. I was working at the World Bank, I believed in institutions and I had a chance to go on a tour.

Eric Schmitt [00:57:18] You're a convert, you're the, the, the greatest believers are the converts.

Vance Crowe [00:57:22] Oh man. Because I went in there when I worked at the World Bank and I saw like, wait a second, this is not at all, this is a giant bureaucracy that is meant to move money from one pile to another in a system that no one on the outside has any idea how this is working. That's a discussion probably for another time. Yeah. But I had a chance to go to the USDA. There is no rational thinking human being that walks up and down those hallways and isn't shocked by how many people are in Washington DC Yeah.

Eric Schmitt [00:57:51] At

Vance Crowe [00:57:52] The USDA. It is so large that you, you could, even if you worked there for 20 years, you wouldn't know where all the offices are.

Eric Schmitt [00:58:00] Well, and think about it, the, a big win for Missouri right, was to get the USDA, they're gonna move to Kansas City. And you had all these employees in Washington DC who thought it was the end of the world 'cause they were gonna be outside the bubble of Washington DC And I think again, that's kind of where we're at. DC has lost touch. You know, we sort of, you know, we're in flyover country or the heartland or whatever you wanna call it, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of common sense that comes from the, this part of the country. And I think the decisions that are being made in that bubble of Washington DC where you have all of those bureaucrats, and by the way I saw this in state government, they can outlast a lot of the elected officials anyway. Even if the elected officials didn't want to get, they're there, they are there and don't

Vance Crowe [00:58:48] Have to fight for an election. They're there and you don't even know how much power they have. 'cause it's hidden way back in the recesses of an office.

Eric Schmitt [00:58:55] Yeah. So I, I think having greater accountability in those structures is very important. And again, it's kind of under the radar, but i, i, I think is, is key.

Vance Crowe [00:59:04] Well, attorney General Schmidt, this has been a, a fascinating conversation as we wrap up. If I were going to talk with somebody that you respect the most but disagree with, who would, who would you put out there as somebody that you're like, I really respect that person, but it's not the way that I view the world? 'cause I, I think it'd be interesting to find somebody else to have that has a different point of view in the world.

Eric Schmitt [00:59:27] I'd have to give that some thought. I think that, that some of the people I've served with, I mean, one of the great lessons for me in the, when I was in the Missouri Senate, which is in, in Missouri state government, there were, you know, we have 163 state representatives, which is one of the biggest in the country. Too big in my opinion. And then we have a senate that has 34 members and one of the smallest in the country. So typically they average about a hundred and, you know, in the rep side and 50 on the Senate side. So it's a smaller group in the Senate. But some of the greatest relationships I had were with Democrats in the Missouri Senate. You know, I take like a Victor Callahan or Ryan McKenna, people like that, that aren't, were on different sides of the aisle or even other people too, who we disagreed with on policy. But we'd go to dinner and we'd talk about our families and, and they would learn that, you know, I'm a, you know, I'm a dad and, and my son Steven, who's now 15, is nonverbal and has special needs. And, and you know, those issues are really important to me. And I fight for, you know, individuals with disabilities in addition to the other things that I believe. And when you get to add layers to, to people you recognize and see their dignity and their humanity. And I think that's really important that we keep that in mind in a, in a culture now that seems so willing to discard people simply for one view or 'cause they say something online you disagree with. So maybe I can give you some other names, but off the top of my head, you know, some people I served with in the Missouri Senate that were, again, different parties, different backgrounds, different views, different votes, but they were good people who were elected just like I was to go do a job.

Vance Crowe [01:01:05] Well, the, the person that told me to pay attention to you, our, our, our joint friend Travis Liebig, said, you may not agree with everything Eric says, but you have to respect his why he says it. And I, I think that's a hundred percent i i, I really have enjoyed that. You've been so open and interested and, and you're welcome back anytime to, to talk about how you see the world shaping up. This has really been an enjoyable conversation. Well,

Eric Schmitt [01:01:28] Thank you and thanks for providing this forum for, for different topics and I think it expands people's view. I think it's needed now. So thanks for what you do and, and hopefully we'll have a chance to visit again.

Vance Crowe [01:01:39] And if people wanted to find you on Twitter, you actually are kind of a prolific tweet. Tweet,

Eric Schmitt [01:01:43] Yeah. Eric underscore Schmidt. S-C-H-M-I-T-T. And then, yeah, I'm, I'm on Instagram and Facebook too, but Twitter is in, in politics is probably the forum that I'm most active. And then, you know, on the official side we've got updates from our office too. But, but yeah, they can find me on Twitter and, and there's a lot of great discussion that happens. But I also try to remember, you know, your Twitter timeline is not real life. You know, like real life

Vance Crowe [01:02:12] Is

Eric Schmitt [01:02:13] Real, life is lived, you know, in communities. And I think it's important to engage where people are at. But I also think not taking yourself too seriously is important.

Vance Crowe [01:02:24] Yeah. I use Twitter as a, a fishing expedition and I find interesting people and then I meet them in some other domain. 'cause you can't really do it deeply in Twitter. Eric Schmidt, the Attorney General of the State of Missouri, thank you so much for joining me.

Eric Schmitt [01:02:37] Thank you.

Vance Crowe [01:02:39] Thanks so much to Attorney General Eric Schmidt for coming on the podcast. This is a really fun conversation. One of the things that you noticed was that Attorney General Schmidt was, had a brown background and light coming in from the side and his camera was in just such an angle. And you can tell that he must do a lot of calls and he knows how to make himself look and sound professional there. If you're interested in improving the way that you look and sound online, I have created a class that I was originally just delivering to clients, but now I've put it online so that any individual can go and get the lessons that professionals, attorneys, bankers are getting on. How do I create a relationship with people over a video call when I don't sound quite right or I don't look quite right. And so this class helps you understand how do you use lights? Where do you put your camera? How should you think about sound and limiting echo? It's a fun class. People have really enjoyed it. And if you're interested in it, go to store dot Articulate Ventures and you can find a link to a class that we put on. Take the class, review it, send me a photo of what you look like before and after, and then tell your friends about it. Thanks so much. It is a great way to support the podcast and I hope you'll check it out. We'll be back next week with more interviews.