Dan Kloeckener: A Life on the Cutting Edge

Dan Kloeckener [00:00:00] So now I've learned to reprogram my mind that I don't need the alcohol or the drugs and I can pray and meditate and not take it personal, you know? But why did it take me to be 68 years old to figure out, you know, quit taking everything personal.

Vance Crowe [00:00:17] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today we have Dan Kloeckener. Dan's the guy that cuts my hair and I have enjoyed talking with him for I think about five years. And it dawned on me that I should have him over for a conversation. One of the reasons that I have these podcast conversations is to illustrate that everyone you meet has exciting, interesting, and in-depth things to share. And I hope that as you are listening, you begin to realize that everyone around you is just as interesting as Dan. If you ask them the right questions. If you're the type of person that wants to improve the way you interact with people, then recognize that what's going on in these conversations is something that I teach in my class called Interest-Based Communications. This is a course that I hold here in the studio over three days to teach people how to have better conversations, how to negotiate, how to work through conflict, how to present ideas, and even really just have better conversations. If you're interested to learn more, go to Articulate Ventures slash IBC. Alright, without further ado, let's get to the conversation with Dan Kloeckener.

Dan Kloeckener [00:01:32] How many

Vance Crowe [00:01:32] Customers do you see in a day?

Dan Kloeckener [00:01:36] It could be 10, it could be 15, you know, days

Vance Crowe [00:01:41] A week. Did you set out to become a a, do you call yourself a hairstylist? You call yourself a

Dan Kloeckener [00:01:45] Barber hairstylist? Yeah. No, I never, I was a waiter and I, I, first I was a busboy and then I was a, you know, I did that for a while. Then I was a captain and I served drinks, and then I was forced to do waiting. I didn't really wanna do it. I was afraid of it. So then I started doing waiting, waiting tables at Port St. Louis, which was a fancy seafood restaurant in St in Clayton. And that's why I'm saying I'm looking at Clayton out here and I just, I'm blown away 'cause I worked all around here and where I am right now, working in the hair salon, there used to be a flaming pit there. And I was a busboy there right next to Al Baker's, which was in competition with Port St. Louis. And it was a seafood restaurant.

Vance Crowe [00:02:34] How long were you a busboy for?

Dan Kloeckener [00:02:36] Just like a couple weeks. And then I went to Port St. Louis because I was a, I was working as a usher at American Theater and this, my girlfriend's father, he was doing all the liquor sales there at American Theater and at the Fox. So he got me the job at Port St. Louis. And he went, he said, this is where you gotta make your money. You gotta do this, you gotta be in the business. So then I did that, and then I became a waiter, and then I went to Stouffer's downtown. And, but I, I hated the restaurant business 'cause it's all politics. You gotta tip the bus boy, you gotta tip the cook, you gotta tip the mare d you gotta tip if the owner's there, sometimes you even gotta tip the owner for giving you a good table and you gotta tip the connoisseur, the guy, the wine steward, and you gotta do all this stuff. So I hated it 'cause it's all politics. And this friend of mine's father was the maître d' and I had three tables and his son had four. So his son would get all these six tops and eight tops. And what would I get? Deuces. So I got all these deuces and I'm going, how am I gonna make money? So I said, I'm gonna sell 'em on everything. I'm gonna sell 'em on appetizers, drinks, I'm gonna wine and dine 'em on bottles of wine. I'm gonna sell 'em on Château Lafite Rothschild, $150 bottle of wine. I'm, I'm gonna nail it and they're gonna love it. And they did. This is 40 years plus.

Vance Crowe [00:04:08] Plus you had to be a great waiter. Could you? You had to be fun. And

Dan Kloeckener [00:04:11] I had hair then and I looked good, had a tan, and I wore a tuxedo and, and it was fun. So it was good.

Vance Crowe [00:04:19] It was a tuxedo restaurant.

Dan Kloeckener [00:04:20] Oh yeah, yeah. It was fine dining. You had to line tables. How long We had to polish every glass and clean all the silverware. I mean, dude, it, it's a lot more than you think. You have to get every drop of water off of, you know, any kind of smudge or anything. When they sit down, there's no smudge on those, those forks and knives and spoons and glasses and wine glasses. And

Vance Crowe [00:04:47] So you made pretty good money here? Oh

Dan Kloeckener [00:04:49] Yeah. Oh yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:04:50] What's pretty good money when you're, what? You were a teenager or you were in your

Dan Kloeckener [00:04:53] Twenties? No, I was 19, 20, 21.

Vance Crowe [00:04:56] And what kind of, what kind of day would you have you walk out with?

Dan Kloeckener [00:04:58] How much money? I, I could walk probably out with 2, 250, you know, this is 40 plus years ago. And it was, it was good. I mean, I, I did well, but I hated it. So then I went to Stouffer's 'cause of politics. So I went down there and the politics was just as bad. So, but I got in cahoots with the manager down there and he knew that I worked at ports, so he'd give us a lot of big tables. So I stayed there for a year and then I hated it. And this one, this one waiter, he keyed my car and broke my antenna and spit on my windshield. And I just said,

Vance Crowe [00:05:40] I'm done. Wait, wait, what'd do

Dan Kloeckener [00:05:41] I, I was working late and they let him go because I was working late and he didn't get the tables. So he got a little pissy. He got a little angry. So

Vance Crowe [00:05:51] Competitive over this, over the

Dan Kloeckener [00:05:52] Money. Oh dude, it's money man. You're talking money. And so then I went back to port and worked there for two weeks and I come back home from working two jobs. 'cause I was still working at the CLE building as a waiter for lunch. So I did lunch at

Vance Crowe [00:06:12] Like executive dining kind of thing.

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:13] It's, it's at the St. Louis Club.

Vance Crowe [00:06:16] Okay. Yeah.

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:16] You know, 16th floor,

Vance Crowe [00:06:18] 15th

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:19] And 16th.

Vance Crowe [00:06:19] Very nice people having business

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:20] Meetings and, but there's no tips. It's, you get a set salary. So I go in there, work breakfast there, lunch, and I get off at two, go home, take a shower, and then I go work at port from four 30 to close. So the only day off I had was Tuesday and Wednesday at port. But I had to work at the building Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So I didn't have a day off.

Vance Crowe [00:06:48] Everyone I know that a

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:49] Waiter. So I was doing two jobs.

Vance Crowe [00:06:51] Everyone I know that was a waiter doing this kind of slog. Like,

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:54] Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:06:55] Super intense. Oh, they all got into drugs.

Dan Kloeckener [00:06:58] Well everybody was smoking weed in the basement. They were doing it and they were, it was crazy man. It was just a party fest. And then if somebody leaves a bottle of wine, are you kidding me? Wait, Château Lafite Rothschild, you think they're gonna, they're not drinking a whole bottle. I don't know if you know it, but at the bottom of the bottle there's all that sediment. They don't drink that. That's bitter, you know. But dude, we were drinking that wine, we were drinking all that. It was, it was wild man. And and

Vance Crowe [00:07:27] How long did you stay

Dan Kloeckener [00:07:28] In? And then we, you make all this money and then you go across the bar across the street and you drink it all and it's like, and then you get up in the morning and then you gotta go to work again. Then the whole thing starts over again. So I wanted, it was insane. It was just nonstop party party. But it was just going,

Vance Crowe [00:07:46] There's so about like, 'cause when you're waiting, I, I used to be a valet, right? Like it's the first time in my life that like all of a sudden you walk out and you're like, I have a bunch of cash. Oh

Dan Kloeckener [00:07:55] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:07:55] That I didn't have 12 hours ago. Oh yeah. And that cash is burning a hole in my pocket because now I think what I could go do this, it's not the paycheck that comes right at the end of two weeks. You can go getting some bad,

Dan Kloeckener [00:08:07] We were going to the Oz over in Sauget and we'd go dancing over there till seven o'clock in the morning and then we'd come home and then we'd have to get up and go to work again. And so the only way you did that is we had to do a little coke to get up in the morning and, and then you get caught up into that and then you get caught up into the drinking. Well,

Vance Crowe [00:08:34] 'cause I would imagine that at first, how

Dan Kloeckener [00:08:35] Are you gonna get up?

Vance Crowe [00:08:36] Can't get up. Coke probably makes it way easier at first. Like, hey,

Dan Kloeckener [00:08:39] Well you're young and you, and it makes you wired for sound man. But it's not, it's not all up what it's supposed to be. 'cause then it catches up with you and then it's, it's a downward spiral.

Vance Crowe [00:08:52] I've heard people say Coke is expensive. What is it? How, how expensive is, well

Dan Kloeckener [00:08:58] A gram is a hundred bucks

Vance Crowe [00:09:00] And is a gram a lot. Is that one?

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:02] It's just, so that's nowadays that would be like two lines. Okay.

Vance Crowe [00:09:07] If

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:07] Two, two strips a line and you would do 'em, you would do one line. I mean you could do a gram in a heartbeat now

Vance Crowe [00:09:15] And that'd be a hundred dollars just going like that. Oh,

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:17] Gone. Yeah, gone quick.

Vance Crowe [00:09:18] Wow.

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:19] Quick. And so, you know, if you buy quantity then you can, you can sort of skim on it. You can, you can cut it and you can, and then you can sell some of it. And then you can keep some and sell some and you can make a little profit and, but it's just, you can get caught up in the dealing with it, you know.

Vance Crowe [00:09:39] And was that a part of the whole weight serving staff

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:42] Kind of like thing? Not as much. I mean we still did it, but it was more, at that time it was more brownies, weed, you know, eating the brownies and

Vance Crowe [00:09:52] Because people quickly forget now that it's legal, at least in Missouri. Right.

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:55] It was

Vance Crowe [00:09:56] That. It used to be like,

Dan Kloeckener [00:09:57] No dude,

Vance Crowe [00:09:57] You could only get weed if you were willing to talk to those guys that lived in the apartment. That's not so Right,

Dan Kloeckener [00:10:02] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:10:02] Not so good.

Dan Kloeckener [00:10:03] And the maître d' one time he would always check everybody's bag, you know the wine steward. He was a manager of port and one time he was looking at this guy's bag and he had brownies and he had marijuana brownies. Well he ate two of them. The manager, well his heart started palpitating and he

Vance Crowe [00:10:23] Didn't know what the heck was going on. You know,

Dan Kloeckener [00:10:24] I don't know what's happening now, man. He was French. And he goes, I don't know what's going on there man. And my heart was just palpitating and I, I thought I was having a heart attack, you know? And he was so funny. And his name was Antoine. He owned a restaurant right on Brentwood Antoine's. And his son was a waiter at Port. And then he opened up Antoine's with his father. And that's how I knew him too. So

Vance Crowe [00:10:49] Were you making, when you're 1920, are you easily paying for your apartment and Oh

Dan Kloeckener [00:10:54] Yeah. Making

Vance Crowe [00:10:55] Things

Dan Kloeckener [00:10:55] Work? Oh yeah, that was, 'cause I was working two

Vance Crowe [00:10:57] Jobs.

Dan Kloeckener [00:10:58] I was working, you know, breakfast and then I was working dinner and I never had a job. I couldn't, dude, I had so much money, but I didn't, I couldn't spend it. I couldn't buy anything 'cause I couldn't, I didn't have a day off. You know, my day off are Tuesday and Wednesday. That's my day off at night.

Vance Crowe [00:11:16] What do you think drove you to, to work this hard?

Dan Kloeckener [00:11:18] Well, so then what happened was I needed that money 'cause I was doing the drugs and I was, you know, dealing the weed a little bit and dealing the coke. And so I needed the money to sustain, you know, that 'cause I didn't wanna pay for it. So then I, I did that and then, but you know, when you're in high school, you smoke weed and you don't even think about it. You drink and you get, and then it escalates to more and more and more and more. And you don't even know how bad it gets. You know, when you're, when you're involved in the drugs and it catches up with you eventually. And then you, you just want more and more and you can't stop. You just can't stop.

Vance Crowe [00:12:03] Yeah. I feel like the sensation for addiction, like the things that I've been addicted to, like hard core tobacco, like it was really hard for me is that it's not that you don't want to quit, it's that it'll be painful to quit. And so like a lot of the time, the reason you keep doing it is not 'cause it feels so good, but because you don't wanna endure the pain of not having it.

Dan Kloeckener [00:12:27] Yes and no because when you're doing it, you don't feel any pain, you know? But it's, when you come down, you get depressed and you get so far down in that pit and lonely and nobody wants to be your friend unless you got the coke or the we.

Vance Crowe [00:12:44] Oh. 'cause your whole friendship network is built around. Other people

Dan Kloeckener [00:12:47] Wanna do

Vance Crowe [00:12:48] K We

Dan Kloeckener [00:12:48] Totally around that. Yeah. Because they al they, well what do you do man? What do you do you want to do? You wanna smoke some weed or you, you wanna do some coke or what? So it's always connection with that, you know. And then when you quit, it's like they're going, dude, what am I gonna do? Where am I gonna get my stuff? Not from me.

Vance Crowe [00:13:07] I'm done. I'm

Dan Kloeckener [00:13:08] Done buddy. I'm out of the business. You know? Well,

Vance Crowe [00:13:10] And that's gotta be hard 'cause you have people that are ready to throw money at you to solve their problem, which is how to get 'em drugs.

Dan Kloeckener [00:13:16] And it's, I was, it's easy to make, you know, a lot of money doing it. I was a little, I was, it was, it was minor. I was doing it to supply my, my own self, you know, stuff.

Vance Crowe [00:13:31] And how long did you stay in the waitering or surveying

Dan Kloeckener [00:13:34] Business? So then I was going back to my apartment at Canterbury Gardens, living with my brother who was a cop. He didn't know that I was doing drugs or anything. And I was dealing outta my, my trunk of my car. And I came back to the house, the apartment. And this friend of mine, he's loading up his, he's got a boat, he's got a Volkswagen camper and he's loading it up and he's getting ready to go on to Clearwater Lake for the weekend and he's gonna do that. And I'm going, dude, what do you do for a living? He goes, I cut hair for a living. I go, really? And I go, well do you think I could do that? And I'm waiting tables two days, right? And he goes, well yeah, you could do that. I think I just say when I get back from Clearwater, we'll go to beauty school. I'll pick a beauty school out for you to go to and we'll pick it out and you'll go. So he comes back from Clearwater the next weekend and we go to this Excel Beauty college on Hampton and Chip.

Vance Crowe [00:14:35] Wait a second. So for listeners, if you're watching, you can see you are a giant of a man that's been out doing like, you know, getting into a little trouble. You, I know you hunt and fish, you're now telling me, my buddy calls me and says, let's go to beauty school.

Dan Kloeckener [00:14:51] I, you have to understand, I played football, I played hockey, I, you know, ran track and I had a lot of hair and I was blonde and I had, it was beautiful. I had beautiful hair down to my shoulder. I was like a pretty boy. So I always liked hair. So when I got my hair cut, I would always go to the best places to get my hair cut. And so I said this and I asked this guy in the place when I had hair, I said, Hey, do you think I could do hair? And he goes, yeah, you could do it. You, you, yeah, you could do it. And that was in high school that I, that So that's So the seed. So you

Vance Crowe [00:15:31] Had this idea in your head.

Dan Kloeckener [00:15:31] I had the seed in there,

Vance Crowe [00:15:32] But the word beauty school.

Dan Kloeckener [00:15:34] I know, I know.

Vance Crowe [00:15:35] I mean it sounds like you're gonna go play with Barbies,

Dan Kloeckener [00:15:37] But there's gonna be 60 women and five guys. And so come on. How? And there's gonna be five of those guys, three of them are gay and the other two, the other guy and me are straight, you know,

Vance Crowe [00:15:52] And genius actually, now that I think about it,

Dan Kloeckener [00:15:54] It's like, what? And they're beautiful. Everyone is different. Was

Vance Crowe [00:15:58] It

Dan Kloeckener [00:15:58] Expensive

Vance Crowe [00:15:59] To go to school? Was this like, I, you

Dan Kloeckener [00:16:01] Won't believe it. I, 40 plus years ago, it cost me $1,500. That's it. And I had to do 13, 1,330 hours.

Vance Crowe [00:16:13] 1300.

Dan Kloeckener [00:16:14] And I did full beauty. I did manicure, pedicure. I could do a facial on you. I could do massage your elbows to your hands, your knees to your feet, your shoulders to your head, but nothing in between. So I get that

Vance Crowe [00:16:31] It keeps you out of being the massage therapist and it's just around the extremities with some of the extremities. Right?

Dan Kloeckener [00:16:37] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:16:37] So as you're doing this, like, I mean mani-pedis, are you sitting there like whistling away talking to people? I mean I see how you are now. You just talk and talk,

Dan Kloeckener [00:16:47] Talk. Well did I had to do it right. So I had to, I had to do the job. So yeah man, I had to file it and put 'em in the soaking bath to get their funk out of their feet. These old ladies, when you're in beauty school, their old ladies, all the old ladies coming 'cause it only costs like nine bucks for a pedicure. Back then it was like $9 for a pedicure and a manicure was like $5 or $3 because

Vance Crowe [00:17:11] They're getting a deal. 'cause you're doing

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:12] A

Vance Crowe [00:17:12] Suit

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:13] Have now it's like $35 for the manicure and you know, it's like 75 for a pedicure. It's, it's, it's,

Vance Crowe [00:17:20] Do you know how to apply then? Yeah

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:21] Man, I know how to do, I had to learn, I had to go to beauty school and we, and I had to go to state board to get, you know, to do it. To go get passed. What

Vance Crowe [00:17:31] Do you mean state board? What do you do?

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:32] You have to go to state board of Jeff City and pass

Vance Crowe [00:17:34] Somebody. Analyze it. Whether you're

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:35] Pass the inspection, you have to

Vance Crowe [00:17:37] Take like a DMV style test.

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:39] Just like a nurse. You have to go to state board. I had to go to state board. Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:17:43] Well I will say this because my daughters have had me paint their fingernails.

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:47] Well you're probably good.

Vance Crowe [00:17:49] No, I'm terrible. I realize it's an actual skill. 'cause they come out looking like dads dip their fingers in clay or something. That's funny because they come out that's funny. Blobbed up.

Dan Kloeckener [00:17:57] And if you make a mistake on their painting their nail, take your finger lick it and then touch it and it'll smooth it out.

Vance Crowe [00:18:04] So do you, so you're doing this for nails, you're doing, you're

Dan Kloeckener [00:18:09] Spread people's feet learned do total cosmetology is what it is.

Vance Crowe [00:18:12] Dying people's hair.

Dan Kloeckener [00:18:14] Oh yeah. They're doing total cosmetology. So they teach you in beauty school how to do that. Perms, color manicure, pedicure massage, head massage. I don't give you a head massage even though I cut your hair. I don't

Vance Crowe [00:18:28] Give you, I'm starting to be a little upset about this. I can give you a head massage

Dan Kloeckener [00:18:31] And then you go, damn, when are you gonna do that again? But I give it to my wife and my kids. They love it. They, my kids are addicted to it. So

Vance Crowe [00:18:39] When you get done with beauty school,

Dan Kloeckener [00:18:42] Then you have to go to state board

Vance Crowe [00:18:44] And then you go to the boards. Is are you high pressure, are you worried about this test? Or are you like, no, I got

Dan Kloeckener [00:18:49] This. Oh, I was freaked out. Okay. 'cause I'm not good at tests. Okay. I cut hair for a living. I'm not good at math or English or, you know.

Vance Crowe [00:18:59] So here

Dan Kloeckener [00:19:00] I am in the, in the hotel with my mom. 'cause she's my model. I'm gonna have to do her as a model.

Vance Crowe [00:19:06] You have to bring your own model in

Dan Kloeckener [00:19:08] My mom. Yeah. My mom was my model. Okay. So I get, so you have to roll her head like a perm. You have to do a whole roll. You have to roll her whole head. Like I'm gonna do a perm. You know? So she has to sit there the whole time while I'm doing it. So anyway, I'm freaking out and I'm starting to panic and I'm hyper anyway, so then she, she sits me down and she puts a glass down and she goes here, drink this. And she pours some vodka in the glass and pour some orange juice in it and says, drink all this. And I drank it. Next thing you know, I was like, I was mellow. I went in, took the test, flew through the practical, which is, you know, hands-on. And then I get to the theory, I fly through the theory and I flunk the theory. One point I missed it by one point. So then for three solid months, you got three months to study again for three months and then take it again. The theory. And if you don't pass it, you gotta go back to beauty school for eight months and take it again.

Vance Crowe [00:20:12] This is like law school. Do you think it, do you think it, it's, it's insane. Is it necessary? Did it help you be a better

Dan Kloeckener [00:20:17] Yeah dude, I never picked up the book. I, it was multiple choice. I never studied.

Vance Crowe [00:20:22] So I just said

Dan Kloeckener [00:20:23] I could do this. I could, my whole life in high school, that's what I did. I just slid through school. I just didn't, you know, it was just, I was easy for me. Plus I was good looking at that time. And all the teachers felt sorry for me. So they just slid me through man.

Vance Crowe [00:20:38] I was, is that

Dan Kloeckener [00:20:38] Right? Yeah, I was, I was a good kid man. I was good. I was sweet, I was kind. And I have always been that way. You know, my dad raised me, I'm one of eight. So my dad raised us, you know, there's seven boys and one girl. Nothing like a firm hand that can't take care of the situation. And he was, he was a, he was a badass.

Vance Crowe [00:20:58] Your dad was?

Dan Kloeckener [00:20:59] Oh yeah dude. He was a lieutenant commander in the Navy. Flew PBS PBMs. And my mom was, she was a secretary and

Vance Crowe [00:21:10] They both work and they had eight kids.

Dan Kloeckener [00:21:12] Well my mom didn't work at first. I got in trouble in third grade and I went to the store to buy candy and I was at Jackson Park. I ran down to the store to get some candy and this girl, Marilyn was her name. She goes, well can you get me candy? And I go, well gimme the money. Let's go. You can come with us. Well I'm not gonna go there. I go, well I'm not getting you candy. So we did, we got it. We came back. But we didn't get her candy 'cause she didn't come with us. So then I see

Vance Crowe [00:21:44] Her come around the corner

Dan Kloeckener [00:21:45] And there she is. Next thing you know, she's busting us. So we got busted. Three of us. So my mom had to come up to the school because

Vance Crowe [00:21:52] You snuck outta school to go get this candy. Yep.

Dan Kloeckener [00:21:54] And I was only in third grade.

Vance Crowe [00:21:55] And because you didn't get her candy, she busted you busted

Dan Kloeckener [00:21:58] Me. What

Vance Crowe [00:21:58] Was the lesson in that?

Dan Kloeckener [00:22:01] Don't trust her man. I didn't trust her all through high school. I didn't trust that girl. I was sort of like a little bit, you know, angry about it. But, but anyway, so then my mom got a job out of the deal. So she became the secretary's, she became the principal's secretary

Vance Crowe [00:22:18] Because she came into to be like, I gotta look at my third grade.

Dan Kloeckener [00:22:21] She was gonna talk, I was a bad kid so she's gonna talk to me. And she talked to my mom and my mom was secretary at Normandy High School for her class. My dad was president of the class. So then she knew she had skills of pre, you know, secretary skills. So then she got her the job and that's what got her the job. So really my being a stinker got her the job at.

Vance Crowe [00:22:46] Isn't that the way though? Like I was just talking with a friend about that this morning. Like all of the things that were bad that happened in my life. Yeah, you look back on 'em and you're like, well if that wouldn't have happened then this. So I one time did this thing when I was working in corporate America, I brought Jordan Peterson to the Farm bureau. So this caused all sorts of like conflict. And I don't, do you know who Jordan Peterson is?

Dan Kloeckener [00:23:07] I've heard the name.

Vance Crowe [00:23:08] He's like this guy that at the time it was like a big deal socially. Well all these people got super mad and then they said bad things about me and Rey to get me fired. And I was talking with a friend today that was like, yeah, I was talking with those people that tried to get you fired and you know, blah blah blah. I kind of feel bad about them, you know? And I'm like, I don't, because if I had, if they hadn't done that, then this wouldn't have happened. Yeah. And then that wouldn't have happened. And I wouldn't be hearing this office. I wouldn't be talking to you on the phone. So like the bad things that happen almost always lead to a better outcome.

Dan Kloeckener [00:23:41] But, and I call that a god wink,

Vance Crowe [00:23:43] A god wink,

Dan Kloeckener [00:23:44] God wink.

Vance Crowe [00:23:45] Tell me what a god wink is.

Dan Kloeckener [00:23:47] It's things that you can't explain, just like you said. And it just happens. And you don't even know why. Like I was fishing over the weekend two weeks ago with my buddy and he was walking down the beach and he is, he's a local and I was in Pensacola and he came up and I hadn't caught a fish all day. Next thing you know I catch this little blue gill like a thing. And I said, I can't believe it. He gave me, he gave me good luck. You're a godwink. And he starts laughing and stuff. He said he is been there forever. 1958. He was nine years old. So now he's in his seventies, he's walking down the beach. He looks like he's 60. And so then I put the fish on the line and I catch the biggest fish I ever caught.

Vance Crowe [00:24:31] You put the blue gill on your hook on, then threw it out bigger.

Dan Kloeckener [00:24:35] Called a pin fish. A pin fish, pin fish. And then I threw it out and the next thing you know, I catch this 40 inch crevalle jack. My wife says crevalle jack is what it was. And Jack helped me get the fish. And he said, if the fish goes this way to the right, he said Don't fight the fish. Let you fight the fish. If the fish goes to the left, you pull him to the right. If he pulls, if he goes to the right, you pull him to the left. After 40 minutes of fishing, he tells me that. And I bring the fish in in 10 minutes. I wore him out. I go, thanks Jack. You know, now you tell me. And the guy, I call that a god wink

Vance Crowe [00:25:15] Is because he connected you with Jack who now is like getting you fish. And right. All these

Dan Kloeckener [00:25:21] Good things

Vance Crowe [00:25:21] Are happening. And then

Dan Kloeckener [00:25:22] On top of that, I had a client, her husband was dying and I had a feeling that he was dying. I didn't know when. So then I come back from work. Okay? And I'm back at work and she comes in and she had sent me a text. And the text was, you know, we have another angel. Let the games begin. And you know, and I'm thinking, okay, well we're playing soccer. Let the games begin. Right? I didn't think anything of it. So she comes in and I'm gonna cut her hair after I get back from my trip. And I go up to her and I go, how's Hank doing? Her husband who is not doing good? She goes, Dan, he died. And I go, what? I go, no, when? And she goes, he died that Wednesday the 10th, June 10th. I go, what time? She goes, nine o'clock. I said, Sally, I said, you won't believe this. I caught my fish at 10 o'clock. And I said, that's a god wink. Hank sent the fish, you know, the, the god's fish to come and let me catch that fish. And Jack was there. Who I caught a jack crevalle. I mean it's just too coincidental.

Vance Crowe [00:26:36] These things.

Dan Kloeckener [00:26:36] That's what I call God way.

Vance Crowe [00:26:38] Okay, we're gonna take a quick break here to talk about a service that I offer called Legacy Interviews. This service is designed to help people record their family stories so that future generations have the opportunity to know their family history. This is a service we offer both online and here in the studios where a host will deep dive into the ancestry, the childhood, the career, marriage and parenting and the wisdom that people have learned along the way. So I thought I would share a quick clip of some people talking about doing a legacy interview. What do you think you'll tell your kids about the experience?

Legacy Interviews client testimonial (ad segment) [00:27:18] Oh, I'm gonna thank 'em a lot. I realize this is more for them and their kids and their kids than it is us, the grandkids. Right? Don't know these stories. I can't wait to, for us all to get together and see it. This went better than I thought it was gonna. Time does go fast though. It's what time is it? It's almost three o'clock. No way. Yes. God, you talked so much. I know.

Vance Crowe [00:27:45] When you say God wink, what is your relationship with God? Are you a religious man?

Dan Kloeckener [00:27:49] Oh yeah, because I, here's another God wink. I was sitting at my farm. I cut all these trees down and I had my little pistol. 'cause if there's coyotes or something around, it's just a little 25 automatic. I put it between my legs. I sat down, I cut 30 trees down and I leaned back and all of a sudden the gun shoots hits me in the shin. And I'm like going, what the heck? I, I see the bullet, the gun is aimed at my body and my shin is hurting right here. And I'm thinking I shot my foot and I pull my, my shoe off. I pull my pant leg up and there's this blood just squirting outta my leg. And I shot my leg and I go to the hospital and I I, what happened was, it wasn't bleeding that bad, but it, it bled first. At first I stuck it on the counter. And then after I stuck it on the counter, when I hopped in there for five minutes, took me to get inside, it stopped bleeding. So then I went, oh, I don't have to worry about it bleeding. I'll call my neighbor, they'll take me to the hospital. I'll be, so then I go to Sullivan, they take me to Barnes from Sullivan Hospital to Barnes. They do this MRI and they do the MRI from my waist down. And then the lady goes, well we're gonna do another MRI because

Vance Crowe [00:29:16] They can't find the bullet

Dan Kloeckener [00:29:17] Because no. 'cause we, we gotta do something. So then she did it from my chest, from my neck down to my waist. And I go, I worked in radiology in between going to beauty school. I forgot to tell you that. And to go through beauty school. Beauty school. 'cause I, I quit waiter, you know, and then I was, I had to, when I was in beauty school for eight months, I had to do something. So that's when I was in radiology. So then they did this radiology, this radiation, MRI. And I said, so I go in the room and they come back in and they go, well we got good news. We have other news. The good news is the bullet, you get to keep it and take it home 'cause we're not gonna cut through your hamstring and get it out. But you have a tumor on your kidney that's three centimeters big. We think it's cancer, you need to see a urologist. I went, what? And so that I got it checked out a week later. And then when COVID hit April 29th, I got it taken out. No cancer, no nothing. If I wouldn't have got shot, I wouldn't have known about the tumor and they wouldn't have taken out. That's a god wink.

Vance Crowe [00:30:28] Okay.

Dan Kloeckener [00:30:28] And I have had numerous of God winks, my wife. Okay. She, she tried to do things to hurt herself and nothing happened to her mentally or physically. And she's healthy as a clam. And it was carbon monoxide poisoning. And she was in, in the garage for five hours. Nothing happened to her. Nothing except for she's obsessive compulsive. And it took away the obsessive compulsiveness for her to be obsessive compulsive. I call that a godwink.

Vance Crowe [00:31:12] So she was cured of, of, of like an OCD kind of mentality. Pretty much. Wow.

Dan Kloeckener [00:31:17] After, after she had gone in there. But it was a shock, you know. But she or my son was five months old. My other son was two and a half years old. She had postpartum depression really bad.

Vance Crowe [00:31:27] That's a real thing. Yeah.

Dan Kloeckener [00:31:28] That

Vance Crowe [00:31:28] You can't know until you're husband watching your wife go through that. Holy shit. That

Dan Kloeckener [00:31:33] Was tough.

Vance Crowe [00:31:34] Yeah. I am fortunate that my wife like, did not have that. But I watched my brother go through it with his wife.

Dan Kloeckener [00:31:40] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:31:41] And like, you wanna be like, come on, be happy you've got the kid and there's nothing.

Dan Kloeckener [00:31:46] But you don't, it's their mechanics and their brain. It's me. The

Vance Crowe [00:31:51] Chemistry is just fried. It's just gone.

Dan Kloeckener [00:31:53] And they're, they're, they're right.

Vance Crowe [00:31:55] So let's go back because I'm interested in getting the story from you. You prac you passed your practicum, you, you came back and had to do the theory again.

Dan Kloeckener [00:32:05] Three. So I did the theory, I flew through it again and I passed it and I was done.

Vance Crowe [00:32:11] You have to drink the second time.

Dan Kloeckener [00:32:12] No, no, no. 'cause I studied for three months. I didn't go, I didn't go out. I didn't watch tv. I didn't go out to the bars. I would go to work. 'cause I was working right across the street. It was called Facade at the time, right here in Clayton. And I was going there, working there, and I'd work from 7 45 until three. And then I get off at three, go home, get in the room, turn the radio on real low. And I'd hit the book. And I did the book for three months. And now I know how doctors, how they can over and over and over. I, I just, I don't know how they can comprehend all the, the stuff that they can remember, but they, they have to have it. But I was smoking weed and drinking. So, and ISI was still, I, you forget when. And I thought the weed was making me forget. It was the drinking that made me forget. And so when I quit drinking, I remember more.

Vance Crowe [00:33:12] It's unbelievable. So when you were in your twenties and you went out and drank hard, did you get hangovers?

Dan Kloeckener [00:33:20] Dude, I was, I was so hangover. It was, it was not good man. And then I drank Gatorade 'cause the Gatorade would zip and I'd have my electrolytes back and I didn't really have that bad of a headache. And that was the problem. 'cause I drank for 55 years.

Vance Crowe [00:33:40] Right. And you could get over those hangovers. Yeah. Because I'll tell you that I am blessed by God that I got hangovers because I did not use to get hangovers. Right. And then I get into my mid twenties and I would have just a little bit of alcohol and I would be really hungover. Right. And for the next 10 years I fight through that. Right.

Dan Kloeckener [00:33:58] But

Vance Crowe [00:33:58] Then one day you wake up and you're like, hey you idiot. You wouldn't feel so sick all the time if you didn't drink alcohol.

Dan Kloeckener [00:34:05] Right, right.

Vance Crowe [00:34:05] And like, but if I had not had hangovers, I am certain that my life would be a totally different thing if I did not get punished the next day for drinking too

Dan Kloeckener [00:34:15] Much. And you're lucky because you have kids and your kids didn't see you get, you know, toasted. And I was a good actor, man. When you're drinking and you're drugging, you act and you can act and you can be the best liar ever. You can lie. And that's what I did the whole, for 55 years I was lying and my wife for, for 38 years. She didn't even, or no, for 30 years she didn't even know I was drinking as bad as I was.

Vance Crowe [00:34:43] Is that right? Yeah,

Dan Kloeckener [00:34:44] Because you were, I

Vance Crowe [00:34:46] Was lying. Were you, well were you? 'cause I think one of the things that loops people in to drugs and alcohol in their everyday life is at first you are more fun to be around. You are more patient because you can be more relaxed. Right.

Dan Kloeckener [00:35:00] And

Vance Crowe [00:35:00] That the challenge is like, yes, but only if you keep going more and more and more was that

Dan Kloeckener [00:35:06] Case. Well that's because you're insecure and you want to drink and you want to be the, the fun guy and you want to be this and that. And so you take everything personal. And when you take it personal, then if somebody says something to you, then you bury it with alcohol, then you're the fun guy again. 'cause you didn't take it personal. So now I've learned to reprogram my mind that I don't need the alcohol or the drugs and I can pray and meditate and not take it personal, you know? But why did it take me to be 68 years old to figure out, you know, quit taking everything personal, you know? And that's where I would bury it. So it's so easy, you know, like these young kids today, they, you know, they have the kids and then they stress out. So then they get a glass of wine and then they chill, then they get another glass. Next thing you know, they're drinking every day, coming home from work, have a glass of wine. And the next thing you know, they're slamming bottles of wine. Next thing you know, they'll go, well I won't do the wine anymore. I'll do the, the vodka. Or I'll do the bourbon. We'll do the bourbon. So then when they start doing that, then it escalates even more. 'cause then you want more of a high and then you just get caught up in it and then you're, you're stuck and you're, it's a downward spiral if you're allergic to drinking.

Vance Crowe [00:36:29] Well thank goodness I had hangovers because the negative consequences of me making a fool outta myself was not enough to get me to stop. It was the pain of hangovers that that, but

Dan Kloeckener [00:36:40] When you're an alcoholic, you, it's like you can't stop. It's like a never ending. It's a never ending. Like that thing inside you that just, you have to have it. You have to have it.

Vance Crowe [00:36:57] And you're thinking about it and shaping your day 24 7 to be able to get it

Dan Kloeckener [00:37:00] 24 7.

Vance Crowe [00:37:00] Yeah.

Dan Kloeckener [00:37:01] Or you're, let's say you're a weekend alcoholic, you know, a weekend alcoholic. Like I was, I would drink on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And then I wouldn't drink on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. And then when Wednesday rolled around, 'cause I'm working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. But when Wednesday rolled around, I couldn't wait to go to the bars and I'd say to my wife, Hey, do you want me to pick up some food? And she goes, sure. What, what do you need? I go, I can pick up some food and bring it home. Well, I'd sit at the bar, but I'd wait five minutes, two minutes to order the food. 'cause I'm two minutes away from the bar. And I'd order the food two minutes from the bar. I'd get to the bar and I'd sit there for 15, 20 minutes. I'd slam probably six drinks. Right? A row doubles

Vance Crowe [00:37:50] Six double.

Dan Kloeckener [00:37:51] So I'd do three doubles. I could do three doubles.

Vance Crowe [00:37:53] And when you came home,

Dan Kloeckener [00:37:55] She didn't, she didn't really know. 'cause I was, I would eat and I'd play it off and I'd lie. And then I had the food. And then I'd do everything around the house and you know, try to make everything happen and moving and, and I go in and brush my teeth. And I, you know, it's a, it's a vicious cycle, man. And and you do it over and over so you can be a weekend drunk too. And that's what I was for 55 years. I didn't really know that it was, that it was that I was doing it, you know, until I went to this rehab facility one time and I'm looking at the rehab and this person's talking, this person's talking this. I go, that's me, that's me, that's me. That's feet. I'm on the other side of the, of the room. And I'm, I'm looking at these people that are in house in Harris house in St. Charles. And I'm going, oh my God, that's me. That's right. Everybody, I'm an alcoholic.

Vance Crowe [00:38:46] What do you, what did you see in what they were saying that you said, that's me. Well,

Dan Kloeckener [00:38:50] I couldn't stop. I had to do it. I, I woke up in the morning and I had to have that drink and or I had to have that, you know, I either, I quit doing drugs when I met my wife. And then it wasn't until, so then for 38, 35, 30 years I drank and I drank in excess. So I had to have that liquor man. I had to have that drink. And I, so it's an addictive thing. And you, you can't say no. You just have to have it. So it wasn't until I had a shock like that, that hit me and that I didn't want to, what really hit me was I realized that I had two boys that I raised as an alcoholic and an addict. 'cause I would smoke weed once in a while with my friends and then I'd drink. So when you drink, then you wanna smoke. And then when you smoke, you wanna drink. So I can't do either one now. Weed's legal now. One, one hit of weed is like, we used to smoke a whole bag of weed. It was dirt weed. And now one hit and you're flying high all day. One hit with the weed that they got now. So I can't do weed, I can't do gummies, I can't drink. But I, I'm okay with that because I've learned how to reprogram my body, my mind and soul to have a higher power, to pull me away from the addiction so that I don't have to break down and take everything personal.

Dan Kloeckener [00:40:24] And I don't take it personal anymore. And I feel a hundred percent healthier and, and, and clearheaded and I'm there man. I'm, I'm where I should have been 30 years ago. And I, I would've flew through that, that 40 years ago. I would've flown through that, that cosmetology test. I would've remembered everything.

Vance Crowe [00:40:46] What did you give up during that time that you say, I wish I would've known this earlier. Had you known it back then, you wouldn't have just been, your test would be easier. How would your life be different?

Dan Kloeckener [00:40:57] Well, like you said, God has a, everything happens for a reason. And I was in exactly the same place that I should have been that I'm in now. And it was always, it would've happened either way. I don't, I don't know what you're asking me. I'm trying to,

Vance Crowe [00:41:14] I guess what I'm saying is like who, what would you, what would be different about your life if you had stopped drinking when you were going to beauty school and just not drink that

Dan Kloeckener [00:41:24] Whole time, time? Oh, I probably wouldn't have been a, I probably would've been a vet veterinarian.

Vance Crowe [00:41:28] Really? Yeah.

Dan Kloeckener [00:41:29] I would love dogs and I loved cats and everything. I would've wanted to go to school, but I'm not gonna go to 10 years of school for, are you kidding me? I could, there's no way. I did it for three months, studied for three solid months. And that was like, oh, that was so painful. But it was so hard. And I didn't, I didn't watch tv. I didn't go out, I didn't drink, I didn't, but it was good because I, I passed the test and I knew what I had to do. I wasn't gonna be a waiter. There's no way. So I make more money as a hairdresser three days a week that I did as a waiter five days a week with two jobs.

Vance Crowe [00:42:13] I mean that's 'cause you have a skill, right? And people are willing to pay for

Dan Kloeckener [00:42:16] It. And you gotta go to college to get it.

Vance Crowe [00:42:18] What is, what is it about your job that is different now than it was when you started?

Dan Kloeckener [00:42:27] You are so funny. There's not a challenge. Nothing's a challenge.

Vance Crowe [00:42:33] Nothing is a challenge. Meaning that somebody can come in and tell you to do, I want you to do X, y, Z with my hair and you're gonna make it happen.

Dan Kloeckener [00:42:39] And I can either say yay or nay. I can say, yes, I can do that. You're gonna look great. Or you know what? I don't think you're gonna look good in this, this cut. I think you should do this. And I'm not afraid to say that when back in, in beauty school or when I got out of school, in the beginning I would say, okay, yeah, well maybe we can do this. And okay, you wanna do that? I think we can do that. People come in a shop, okay. And they want the perfect haircut. They want, they want whatever's happening right then. Okay. But what they don't understand is what do you do to your hair? What do you do to make it look the way you do? Because when I do it, it's not gonna look like that

Vance Crowe [00:43:25] Uhuh.

Dan Kloeckener [00:43:25] So I gotta figure out how are you gonna, how can I cut your hair to make it look like I did it? See what I'm saying? So I try to pick their brain to figure out what they're gonna do. Unless they're gonna come in the salon and get a blow dry every week, then, then they can cut whatever they want to do. But that's high maintenance. And then not everybody's high maintenance anymore. They're more free flowing, they're more letting their hair go natural. And

Vance Crowe [00:43:51] So when you, when you are cutting people's hairs, you're talking all day long. There have to be days when you come in and you're like, I want it to be quiet today. But like to the person that's sitting in your chair, they'd be like, oh no, what's wrong Dan? Did I do something wrong? How do you, how do you do this day in day when you are making money? You are talking

Dan Kloeckener [00:44:11] Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday took me 40 years to get there. I can do three days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, working all the time. But I will say this, I am blessed beyond measure. And every morning I get up and I hit my knees

Vance Crowe [00:44:33] Every morning.

Dan Kloeckener [00:44:35] And I thank God

Vance Crowe [00:44:36] For

Dan Kloeckener [00:44:38] My life and what I have because I'm blessed beyond all measure and that with God. And, and I do act, there's a lot of acting in it. But I will say that I hit my knees and my God pulls me. And why am I upset? Why should I take anything personal when I come to work? I'm happy. I'm joyous. There's a guy in my shop and or a girl and they say, no talk Tuesday, we're not talking today. I go, what? What do you mean? And they go, no, we're not talking today. And I'm like, going, what? And I have to say, okay, whatever. Talk to the hand. And I don't say a word. They

Vance Crowe [00:45:27] Have a day that they just don't wanna talk to. They don't wanna talk to anyone.

Dan Kloeckener [00:45:30] No, they don't talk to me.

Vance Crowe [00:45:32] Oh, not to you. Yeah.

Dan Kloeckener [00:45:33] 'cause I'm, I'm,

Vance Crowe [00:45:34] You're pretty chatty.

Dan Kloeckener [00:45:35] A little wired. A little wired.

Vance Crowe [00:45:37] So the,

Dan Kloeckener [00:45:38] But that's okay. I mean, I get it. And I understand. So I, you know, I can do that. Well, so

Vance Crowe [00:45:44] You're, you're thought about the prayer. You know, I have heard it. It said that the highest form of prayer is gratitude, telling God what you're grateful for, tumble.

Dan Kloeckener [00:45:53] And

Vance Crowe [00:45:54] Like it really is one of those things that if it is very difficult to be unhappy, if you are truly grateful for the things that are around you. Because if you are grateful, if you really understand what you have,

Dan Kloeckener [00:46:05] Right,

Vance Crowe [00:46:06] You would be down on your knees saying, thank God. Right? 'cause I don't deserve this.

Dan Kloeckener [00:46:10] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:46:11] And if you don't have a life like that, then you need to be like, what is it that I need to change?

Dan Kloeckener [00:46:15] Right.

Vance Crowe [00:46:16] But I, I'm with you on the, on the prayer of gratitude. And

Dan Kloeckener [00:46:20] I will say this, I stretch every morning. I don't, I stretch, I do karate stretches, I do stretches. I stretch my legs. I, when I'm on my knees, I stretch, stretch, stretch, stretch. And there was this old lady that would come in the shop where I used to work and every time she would come in, she would drop her keys and

Vance Crowe [00:46:43] I'm

Dan Kloeckener [00:46:44] Going, what? And I would go running over and pick the keys up and give them to her, right? So this one time I saw her do it. And then I turn around and all the girls, her friends, there's all these chairs and they're all laughing 'cause they're looking at my tush and I'm going, what is this? So, you know what I did the next time I didn't pick her keys up. So then when I didn't do it, I'm telling you she had to bend over and she was so, she probably never bent over, ever in her life. And dude, she was, it was hurting me to watch her. And she bent over and it was, that taught me to stretch my body and to stay stretched. And I'm 68. I can do a split, I can do a split right here, man. I could do karate kicks and stuff, but I stretch in and Gatorade and drinking and staying hydrated. If your brain is, is got hydration in it, my theory, then your brain is gonna think correctly. But if it's dry and you're not feeding it with fuel, with electrolytes and all that, you're, you're not gonna think clear. You're not gonna be. So I learned that when I was drinking alcohol and then I do the Gatorade drink. And so it really helped carried

Vance Crowe [00:48:05] That over.

Dan Kloeckener [00:48:05] Yeah. So now I drink Gatorade and now I don't drink. So,

Vance Crowe [00:48:09] So you, you sit with people all day that are looking at themselves in the mirror and you're looking at them in the mirror looking at themselves. What do you know about how humans view themselves? That somebody that doesn't sit by a mirror every day wouldn't see, do you know what I mean?

Dan Kloeckener [00:48:27] They're in there for the miracle. That's what they want. They want that miracle cut. They want that miracle color. They want it to be perfect. Okay. So I try to figure out the best way and the, the best way to make it perfect. You know, and, and that they can make it look that good the way I make it look.

Vance Crowe [00:48:55] It's gotta be a little bit weird. Do you see people look in the mirror and they're not happy with how they look or they 4, 4, 4 7.

Dan Kloeckener [00:49:03] Yeah, man, every, I mean, and they'll look in the mirror and they'll go, oh, look at that. And the lighting in here is too bright. Oh my god, look at me, look at me. My wife does it all the time. I shouldn't even say that. And I'll go, Betsy, you're beautiful. You're beautiful. But yeah, it's, it's a, that's why they come in there. They want to get, but some of 'em, their hair lights and their highlights they need and bad, you know? And so when you, when you make an, when you cut it and you do it, it looks great when they're done, you know, and then they love it, you know, and they go, oh my God, look at that. And, but they should have done it weeks ago. You know, they push it, they, they push it off too long sometimes.

Vance Crowe [00:49:45] So in the beauty world, right, it's gotta be that you're turning over clients and new people and you do a lot of older people. How do you, how do people find you? How do they become your client?

Dan Kloeckener [00:49:59] It's word of mouth. It's just, you know, I, that's how I do it. You know, you send two people, you get a free haircut or you know, just word of mouth. And then I also give out certificates. I give, I give a lot of donations to charitable things, you know, like highlighting haircut and blow dry. Oh

Vance Crowe [00:50:20] Really? That's

Dan Kloeckener [00:50:21] Good idea. Yeah. So

Vance Crowe [00:50:21] That's a good idea.

Dan Kloeckener [00:50:22] Anybody, anybody that you know that wants a certificate, I'll give you man, I'll give them them out to you and you can put your name on it or

Vance Crowe [00:50:28] Whatever

Dan Kloeckener [00:50:29] And just say that.

Vance Crowe [00:50:30] So during our first time you told me I, and I think I had told you that I was going to Florida and you're like, you gotta watch out for shark attacks, right?

Dan Kloeckener [00:50:38] And

Vance Crowe [00:50:38] I was like, who the hell is this guy that he's warning me about shark attacks in Florida? Why did you get so swept up into shark attacks that you would tell me about my first time? Well

Dan Kloeckener [00:50:50] I've been going to Pensacola 'cause my mother and father-in-law, they have a, they rent a condo down in Florida. So I've been going there for 39, 40 years to Pensacola. So we were down there in 2001 and this boy was fishing with his uncle and he got bit by a shark and the uncle didn't even know it. And the uncle's fishing for sharks and he is down at Fort Pickens way down the beach. And the kid, he grabs the tail of the shark 'cause the boy was getting dragged out. He drags the shark up on the beach, the boy's arm gets bit off, they put a tourniquet, they fly him, helicopter him back, we're down on the beach, but miles down we hear the sirens, we hear 'cause it's an island and they're going down to that island, you know, and there's only one road in between. So we heard the sirens go and then we heard the helicopter fly. So we knew that something happened. Then when we found out, I talked to locals and the locals told me that this boy got bit and I fish and I've been fishing there for 40 years. But at that time, oh shoot, that was 2001. So I'd been fishing for 20 some odd years and I fish on the beach and I tell my nieces and nephews, no, you can't get in the water. I just fished wait two hours and then you can fish, then you can go swim and they wanna swim.

Dan Kloeckener [00:52:24] So I tell 'em no they can't do it. So that uncle knew he was fishing for sharks, he was fishing from eight o'clock until five o'clock. And that's when that boy got bit. So

Vance Crowe [00:52:35] He was out there chumming the water, bringing, being, making sharks that's come

Dan Kloeckener [00:52:38] In. That's exactly what he did. And the locals told me since then the uncle has not been doing too good mentally. The boy's, not really mentally. 'cause he's like three or four years old. He is in a wheelchair. He can't really function too much. And

Vance Crowe [00:52:52] And so seeing this prompted you to be like, people need to take this serious.

Dan Kloeckener [00:52:55] There's not a book out there. There's not one book out there that tells anybody how to avoid shark attack. So I wrote the book and I got the book and my wife said, why are you writing this book? What you don't know anything about sharks? I go, no, I everything about fishing and I know how to catch a shark. If I wanna catch a shark I can catch a shark anywhere and it's put the blood in the water you know, at the right time or whatever. And I've caught so many sharks so I know when to fish, when not to fish, when to go into bed in the water.

Vance Crowe [00:53:29] Okay. So give me the 62nd crash course. How should people avoid shark attacks?

Dan Kloeckener [00:53:36] Do not go in the water before nine o'clock in the morning. Don't go in the water after four o'clock. Do not go in when there's birds present that are hitting the water. Do not go in bait fish, don't swim with the bait. Fish in the water. Do not go anywhere near the water. If you see fish bait, fish swimming to you, get out of the water. And those are all pertinent things. Do not swim in really rough, murky water. Do not swim with cuts, you know, on your legs. Don't swim with jewelry 'cause they like shiny and bear

Vance Crowe [00:54:20] Food is are worse. You take, take it so seriously because like for me, my automatic reaction, if my wife was like, oh we gotta be careful there's sharks around here. I'd be like, we don't have to worry about sharks. But you're saying legitimately if you don't follow this, if you're around chummed waters, like people get,

Dan Kloeckener [00:54:39] Get nicked. That boy was in that water standing up to his chest. He was nine years old, the uncle was waist high and the water was going from right to left and the boy was on the left side and the chum line was coming back 'cause he pulled up the bait all day. And I have it in my book, the chum line. And there's a chum line that you create and it drags the bait on the ground. Well when that shark hit that chum line, he came right in and hit that boy's arm. They bit him three times, bit him on the thigh, the side and then he bit his arm and started dragging him out.

Vance Crowe [00:55:16] And after you wrote this book, how did you even know to write a book? How,

Dan Kloeckener [00:55:20] How I, I just, well I had to write it first and I'm not really Grammarly correct so to speak. So my wife, I wrote it and then she would look at it and then I had an editor correct it, correct it. And then I had another editor correct it and another editor correct it. And now I'm on the fifth editor correcting it and now my wife is gonna be happy with the book 'cause it's getting corrected again.

Vance Crowe [00:55:51] It was her that wanted those corrections. Oh

Dan Kloeckener [00:55:53] Yeah. But I wanted them too. But she said if you're gonna write a book, you have to sound like you know what you're talking about. You can't sound like you're illiterate, you know. So I said I get it, but it's all common sense of you know, what not to do and where to go and what not to, you know, so I have a lot of common sense and there's a picture on every page. So you know, every page has a picture of what to do and what not to do. You know.

Vance Crowe [00:56:23] Well I see these books at your shop,

Dan Kloeckener [00:56:26] Right?

Vance Crowe [00:56:27] But where do other people encounter these books? Has it been popular?

Dan Kloeckener [00:56:30] It's on Kindle and I, I need to get it on Amazon is what I need to do. I need to get it out there on Amazon when I get the next shipment. 'cause I'm getting it edited this week coming up again. And then I can get it mass production and then after I get that, then I can sell it again and then I'll try to promote it.

Vance Crowe [00:56:53] Like people think that like if they're the way they're hearing you describe it, it's like, oh, you're just about to finish up. But you gave me a book like

Dan Kloeckener [00:57:00] Right, right.

Vance Crowe [00:57:00] Five years ago, like, but I, you've been doing this for a long time,

Dan Kloeckener [00:57:03] But I'm still editing the book too and tweaking it to get it perfect so that my wife will she'll then she'll be happy with it and then I can sell it. And that's, she's, we're real close to, to doing it. So now it'll be perfect and she's happy with it and then she'll let me, and then I'll feel good about it. 'cause she wasn't feeling good about it because she goes, what do you, how do you know about sharks when you're not a marine biologist or, and my brother-in-law's, he worked at the zoo for 40 years and he, he thinks I'm crazy. Anyway, so when I wrote the book he said, well why, but I'm, the only reason I'm writing the book is 'cause I wanna prevent people from getting bit and it's common sense. There's not a book out there, you know, that says anything vance about it. There's not one book out there that says how to prevent shark attack.

Vance Crowe [00:57:54] So how did you decide, yes, I'm gonna pick this up and write a book about this. Like, yeah, there's no book out there, but there have to be other people that have observed that. There's no sheriff book out there, bitch,

Dan Kloeckener [00:58:05] The helicopter flying over my head, the sirens. And that made me hurt for that kid. And if I can prevent one person from having that happen, one having their arm cut off or leg or whatever, then I did my job. You know what I mean? And that's where I, I felt for that kid. 'cause I've heard that he's not all there, you know, and how could you be if you got bit that many times and what was your uncle doing? You know? I mean, come on. Like you don't let a kid that little, but I don't know, I'm, I shouldn't talk about it.

Vance Crowe [00:58:44] It's, it's interesting to me. It hurts like, 'cause I know you as this giant that stands over top of me and cuts my hair and like interacts with me that you are really sensitive. I mean, you said two different things today, like about the, I drank in order to not have to process that somebody was criticizing me and I saw a little boy being taken away on a helicopter and that impacted you. It's just, it's it'ss great to talk with you and that you're so open because you appear as like big burly hunting guy.

Dan Kloeckener [00:59:14] I've never been that big burly hunting guy. I always to weigh 165 pounds and I was playing football and I was a wide receiver and now I weigh 236 pounds and people think I'm huge, you know, and I'm, I don't think of me that way, but it's weird. It's just a weird sense. And you're a big guy too, man.

Vance Crowe [00:59:34] Yeah. Well it's funny because you,

Dan Kloeckener [00:59:36] And you're a gentle giant when

Vance Crowe [00:59:37] You get around other big guys, you're always like, is this how it feels to, to look up to another person? I, I don't realize this is, but Dan

Dan Kloeckener [00:59:45] Man, thank

Vance Crowe [00:59:46] You so much for coming by. If people wanted to use you as their barber as I do actually this is not your haircut, this is the haircut of your teacher. The, the woman at the, at the clinic that said she ran your beau the beauty school. You went to

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:03] Chris,

Vance Crowe [01:00:04] Older lady maybe in her sixties, seventies. Chris

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:07] Muzzi.

Vance Crowe [01:00:07] Yeah, she was awesome.

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:08] She's in the, in the, yeah, she cuts my hair

Vance Crowe [01:00:11] In the corner there.

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:11] She's cut my hair too.

Vance Crowe [01:00:13] I'm thinking about firing you. And you, you sit it down now buddy. Yeah, she was great.

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:19] She cut my hair. Yeah, she's got a good touch. And that woman is, she is sweetheart. She owns the Grabber School.

Vance Crowe [01:00:26] Yeah, I know. Yeah. She told me all about it. Oh,

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:28] She did tell you about that.

Vance Crowe [01:00:29] And I then I started looking around being like, how could I give Dan the slip start coming to this lady,

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:34] I could fix that haircut. And

Vance Crowe [01:00:36] She left it a little longer on what's, so if people wanted to get a haircut from you, where, where would they go to find that out?

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:43] It's just Christopher's hair salon man. That's where it is. And

Vance Crowe [01:00:46] You call up and you ask for Dan and

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:48] Talk to Tammy, my receptionist and she can get you an appointment.

Vance Crowe [01:00:52] And if people wanted to find your book, what, which hold up the book and say what it's called

Dan Kloeckener [01:00:57] To, it's called the Jaws of Life, which my oldest son gave me that name. And it's how to avoid shark attack for locals or for snowbirds and locals we're snowbirds and so the locals, they know what to do but some of the locals don't, you know. But that's, that's, yeah, that's it.

Vance Crowe [01:01:19] Dan man, thanks for so much for coming in

Dan Kloeckener [01:01:22] Vance. Thank you for, it's been great man. Thanks.

Vance Crowe [01:01:26] Okay, that's gonna do it for this week's show with Dan Kloeckener. Thank you so much for tuning in. As I talked about at the beginning of the show coming up, we have the Articulate Ventures interest based communications course and I believe for this succession coming up July 6th through the eighth, that we have two slots open. So if you are interested in taking this course, go to Articulate Ventures slash IBC and also if you're interested in having us record a story with your loved ones, go to Legacy Interviews dot com. All right. We'll be back again with another interesting person.

IBC Course Testimonials (montage) [01:02:01] Good negotiation is one where both parties walk away slightly disappointed. That was probably my default world model BV before Vance. Well, Vance had a lot of these models that he created. I ingrained a lot of these models so deeply from working with Vance for a long time that I started to, to recommunicate them to my friends and my friends' eyes had the same sort of light up of understanding of like, this is a thing that could help me be more effective in life. Whenever Vance let me know that he was working on sort of putting this into more of a workshop form, I was like, yeah man, I want that for my team. Like now if my first two employees go through this so that we have this shared set of context and a shared set of language that's gonna create value for my team going forward. I wanted to get better at communication myself. I knew I had good ideas in my head that I wanted to be able to communicate to potential investors and I was not super confident in being able to do that before. I thought that negotiation was basically for people in a boardroom, like CEOs, words like shareholder are involved. So I thought that you had to have a lot of resources at your disposal to even care about negotiations. Both people had to lose or both people weren't happy in the end. I found that what you both want is achievable by understanding the needs of the other person more. A negotiation is really a way to solve a problem that you have. You can rearrange the world in such a way where all parties get something that they're happy with. So you don't need to possess great resources to be involved in a negotiation or to really benefit from knowing how to negotiate.

IBC Course Testimonials (montage) [01:03:38] RJ and I initially were two different businesses. It became clear to us over the long term that we would be much more bullish on our shared future if we like found a way to like actually be one entity, one whole working together that required us to have what to many would be very hard conversations because we are both CEOs of our own independently funded businesses. But we were able to have conversations and get to the root of what our actual interests and what our actual skill sets were. Having both people understand this pattern of communication, it was useful to pull out those tools when we needed them the most in like difficult conversations. It's very helpful to have that quick language to do something more productive than continue to like misunderstand or whatever, whatever else you're doing. Building relationships isn't just you communicating to the other person. It's also figuring out how to let the other person communicate to you so that they trust you. Getting into a real conversation and and diffusing tensions before you, you know, get to business. A lot of people have a default model where they're like, I wanna raise my own money. I wanna start my own business. I wanna do my own thing. We find that they have specific interests that could help us. We become allies instead of competitors. I guess the course gives you tools to know that you can say the right words to like extract those things out of the ether and put them in your life. Learning interest-based communications from Vance might actually be the single highest leverage skillset that I ever developed before starting this company. I'm by default an introvert. I think that I've developed the ability to interact with people in such a way that it's energizing and it's fun and I look forward to interacting with strangers on a regular basis.

IBC Course Testimonials (montage) [01:05:16] You should just take it, do it already. Yeah. I feel like you should just do it like, no, I don't know. I feel like it's life content. It's like definitely fun life content. I am doing exactly what I want to be doing with my life. Interest based communications did that for me more than anything else that I've learned.