Coutts Four: 900 Days in Jail, Crown Appeals Acquittal, and Canada's Protest Crackdown

Vance Crowe [00:00:00] And as soon as the NCBA picks up the phone and says, Vance, you know, we don't like that you did that, I'm gonna be like, all right, well send your president on. Let's have him on. And I'm gonna just keep trying to bring as many different tribes as I can from all different directions,

Shaun Newman [00:00:14] Find whatever they want, and all of a sudden say, I got explosives. And then it becomes tacked on the chart. This is how insane it is. And I'm trying not to be too flamboyant, except it just happened. And to tack that on, I had the premier of Alberta on yesterday. And you know, like, I think one of one of my listeners said it best, you know, like if, if she wants a second career after politics, she could become a a, a tap instructor. 'cause she kind of tiptoed and tapped around all the questions, including the Coutts forum.

Vance Crowe [00:00:44] It, I mean, the, the answer seems obvious. It is that the government wants to make sure that people are afraid to protest. That they are afraid that, you know, if they have even a, a 22 in their, in their vehicle, that like their whole life could be ripped outta their hands.

Shaun Newman [00:01:00] But I'm pretty pissed right now, and frankly, I'm not gonna let some, like, you know, Justin Trudeau got a couple of choice words in my head, intimidate me, my family, my country, into a place that we don't want to go because it is strange world. And I think you go into that strange world farther and that's your own sort of bag over your head, live in hell that nobody wants to be a part of. So, hey, this is Shaun Newman, host of the SNP here in the great White North, and you're listening to the one and only Vance Crowe podcast.

Vance Crowe [00:01:32] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. Canadian podcaster, Shaun Newman Returns longtime listeners of the podcast know that Sean is one of my most frequent guests, and it's because we are brothers from another mother. I actually love talking with Sean. He has an energy and an excitement and a zest for life that is truly unparalleled by anyone else. He also is living up in Canada where he talks about with his guests and his audience about the news that's going on in Canada. And Sean has become a major force in Canadian politics, particularly out west. Just before he hopped on to record this interview, he was with the premier of Alberta, Danielle Smith. We talk a little bit about that, what it's like to interview a premier, what kind of questions he was asking and how she dodged those questions. We also talked about the Coutts four, which if you're not familiar with that name, you should be. Those were four men that were arrested in Canada and kept locked up for over 900 days before they finally had their day in court. Sean talks all about how their conviction played out, and you will probably be shocked by what you hear here. We also, throughout this podcast, talk more about politics than I normally do. One thing you may have realized is I very seldom tell my political views. Largely it's because I think political views aren't that interesting. What really matters is what are you contributing to the world? What are you actively engaged in? And so I don't like talking about who I voted for or you know, kind of the upcoming elections, but it's very interesting to talk about what are the consequences of an election now?

Vance Crowe [00:03:10] Are we headed towards a nuclear war? And do I think all the way down in the deep recesses of my heart that this is the best system that we could have, this democracy of our country? I think you're going to enjoy this podcast. At the end. We end up talking a little bit about Bitcoin and that prompts me to talk about a recording I did with a man named Jay Curtis who came down to do a legacy interview and then asked me to help him take Bitcoin off of an exchange and put onto a wallet. So I mentioned during the interview that we have recorded a video of us doing this so that you can learn too, so that you could get a Trezor wallet, you could buy Bitcoin on an exchange and you could put it onto your wallet. You can find that video by going to Legacy Interviews dot com slash Bitcoin where you'll see a video of Jay and I walking through the steps. I hope you'll enjoy it. We're gonna get to the interview with Shaun Newman in just a moment. But first I want to talk about Legacy Interviews, longtime listeners to the podcast. Know that Legacy Interviews are where I sit down with your loved ones to record them telling their life stories so that future generations have the opportunity to know their family history. One thing that comes to mind when thinking about Shaun Newman is how many Canadians have actually done Legacy Interviews. I offer this service online for people that can't travel to the St. Louis studio, and this is opened up a window into a world that I never imagined. In fact, I've had people now do Legacy Interviews over our online system here, and they started life in a house with dirt floors or didn't have electricity or had to get run water from a well.

Vance Crowe [00:04:50] These people that are out there that experienced their parents hitching horses in order to be able to go out and plow fields or had to actually shell the corn themselves, these people aren't going to last forever. And eventually we will hit a point in our society where it is a distant memory where people ever lived without electricity at all. So if you have a loved one that has had these experiences, they lived a life that was before all of this technology, and you wanna make sure that you capture their wisdom so that you can talk about what was life like back then. What did technology cost us in terms of community and family, and what should we be mindful of in the future? Then go to Legacy Interviews dot com and book a legacy interview online for your loved one. This is a profound experience and while the studio is always the best, because you're in person online has turned out to be an amazing ability to be able to capture these stories, be able to get people's feelings and emotions and interactions with the world that I think it's an awesome option as well. So Legacy Interviews dot com, check it out. And now onto the interview with my good friend, Shaun Newman. Shaun Newman, welcome back to the podcast

Shaun Newman [00:06:06] Vance Bleeping Crow. How's it going?

Vance Crowe [00:06:09] It's going great. So you are my Canadian friend. I have a few of you guys, but you're the one that has a podcast that talks all the time about the Coutts four. So for people in the United States that don't have any idea who they are or why this is a big deal, tell me about the Coutts four and what's the latest that's happened in there?

Shaun Newman [00:06:28] Well, the Coutts blockade was, was the same time as the Freedom Convoy, which I'm sure lots of your listeners know about, which was out in Ottawa, right? So you, you got, as soon as the protest starts out in Ottawa and, and it's, it's rolling along, there's certain people that can make it to Ottawa. So now you start getting slow rules or you know, these, these convoys essentially going into all the major cities and Alberta specifically, but it's Saskatchewan, it's Manitoba, and one of them set up a blockade at the Coutts border crossing. So you're looking for your American listeners, essentially Southern Alberta and what would be Northern Montana. And there's a, there's a border crossing there. And so they, there they became known as the Coutts blockade. And you know, like what happens in Ottawa is eventually they bring out the Emergencies Act, but probably what doesn't get talked about enough is why they felt like, oh, the Emergencies Act is needed. Because if people recall Ottawa was like ridiculously peaceful, like they were trying to push people into this box and they just kept smiling and bouncy houses and you know, and, and you know, just like all these fun things my hockey games and, and on it went. But what happens is four guys specifically get charged in Coutts for having weapons at the border crossing. And for this, they justify everything. They charge them with conspiracy to commit murder specifically against RCMP officers. And then, you know, like now it's been, you know, 900 plus days they've been stuck in remand.

Shaun Newman [00:08:00] And remand is where you go before they give you bail or before you have trial. And from all accounts that I've heard Vance, it's not a great place for people to go. And so they get stuck there. We're talking at times solitary confinement, we're talking, you know, where people come in and out all the time, except for four guys you are for fast forward the clock, two of them plead out, but not to conspiracy to commit murder. They, they pleaded out to weapons charges and a couple things in that and which sounds like really dangerous and nefarious and everything else. And that brings us up to present moment where this week two of them were, were found guilty of possession of a firearm, one of 'em possession of explosives, and both not guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. And so that sounds like you, you're sitting there and you're going, well this, this doesn't sound great except, you know, like the more I dug into it, you know, the explosives for all your farm listeners were 200 kilometers away from the protest. They were a family hand me down from the guy's dad, Anthony Olin's dad, who they'd had a business where they used a bit of like explosives, you know, with drill bits and stuff for mining. And so he didn't even realize they were there when the cops searched the place, you know, it comes out that he had explosives. This gets tacked on his charges. Don't ask me,

Vance Crowe [00:09:27] Wait, wait, wait, let me see if I got this right. So yeah,

Shaun Newman [00:09:30] These

Vance Crowe [00:09:30] Guys are at a protest, correct? They get arrested, they have weapons on them and so the the Royal mounted Canadian police take them into custody and then go search their house 200 kilometers away.

Shaun Newman [00:09:42] Correct.

Vance Crowe [00:09:43] And because there was an old explosive there. Correct.

Shaun Newman [00:09:47] They

Vance Crowe [00:09:47] Got charged with that as though they were carrying it around at the protest

Shaun Newman [00:09:52] As if there was intent.

Vance Crowe [00:09:53] This is insane.

Shaun Newman [00:09:55] Yes. So,

Vance Crowe [00:09:57] Okay, so, so how is the public reacting to this?

Shaun Newman [00:10:02] Well, I mean the people that have been following along with it are completely outraged. Like, I mean it's, it's, it's insane, but this is why it did so many round tables around it because when when I tell it to you like that, you know, part of your audience gimme be like, well they were heavily armed. That doesn't sound great. Now, for your, once again, for your audience, knowing that there's a lot of farmers out there, one of the guys had a 20 and a shotgun. Okay. And it sounds like they had been smart enough to like not carry it around with them. They'd put it off in a locked storage container away from the protest. And you know, like I think what I, what I caught is you got a a a bunch of men who probably got caught saying a few things like we're gonna go to war with the police and, and things like a that nature, that undercover cops, by all accounts, beautiful undercover cops. And I do mean that very attractive women kind of like got into this realm of where they used their words to then be able to go searching a little deeper and deeper and deeper so they find weapons, which on all accounts it was stupid, right? Like, I mean, bringing guns to a, a protest, not a good idea. But I always remind people, go back to that time where a country wasn't allowing us to leave, wasn't allowed allowing a lot of us to get on federal transportation. So that means flights, trains public or buses on and on weren't allowed to go into restaurants. We had our, you know, our largest city, I think Toronto's the largest, forgive me if I'm off on that to all your Canadian listeners.

Shaun Newman [00:11:33] I think it is basically say, you know, they unvaccinated were, you know, like killing people and killing grandma and all these crazy things we had we're, we're filling up the hospitals being talked about. You could just feel it. So in one breath you go, why would they do that? And on the other breath you go, because of the tensions that were going on at that time in Canada, it was an insane time. So they get caught with guns, never used it. They get arrested peacefully, everybody says they get arrested peacefully on and on this goes, they don't have this long track record of having it out with the cops, right? And so you go, in theory they should just get on bail, except this is political. And you fast forward to Monday, they both get convicted of six and a half years. They get a little bit of time served because they were in 900 plus days. And yes, Anthony Olienick did not have explosives on 'em. They were by all accounts corroded old and everything. And that was laid on 'em as well. It doesn't make sense to me and if I understood it correct for whatever reason, that didn't get entered into the court. So it's like, it's known outside of the court, but not in the court. Does that make sense to you? Like it, I'm trying to regard mean

Vance Crowe [00:12:47] That was, you never, the fact that he wasn't carrying it around with him was, was not something that was entered into evidence. It was just like, oh, and by the way, he also had explosives.

Shaun Newman [00:12:54] Correct. Now I'm being very simplistic of this, but on all the round tables I did, I as soon as I heard him, that's insane. Why, why, why would he, why would the cops do that? And then somebody said, well listen, this is what they knew in the court. They didn't know all the stuff about it being corroded and being up on a high shelf and that his dad had passed away and it was some of his dad's stuff and it was just stored in an old barn or shop or whatever. But I'm like, the more farmers I talk to about this, they're all going, oh man, like does like, think about this, if they come out to the farm, they can find whatever they want and all of a sudden say, I got explosives and then it becomes tacked on the charge. This is how insane it is. And I'm trying not to be too flamboyant except it just happened. And to tack that on, I had the premier of Alberta on yesterday and you know, like I think one of one of my listeners said it best, you know, like if if she wants a second career after politics, she could become a a, a tap instructor. 'cause she kind of tiptoed and tapped around all the questions, including the Coutts four. Now in fairness, you know, it's difficult for a premier to walk on and say this is a travesty of justice. But to a lot of people here in Alberta where we're supposed to be, you know, the last bastion of freedom in the, in in Canada for this to play out right in front of us for us to be talking about it so much, you know, it's just, it's it's like, it's pretty tough pill to swallow I guess. And that is knowing that,

Vance Crowe [00:14:22] Yeah, to me it's,

Shaun Newman [00:14:23] Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:14:24] To, to me when you're saying like, I don't get it, I don't understand like it, I mean the, the answer seems obvious it is that the government wants to make sure that people exactly are afraid to protest. That they are afraid that, you know, if they have even a, a 22 in their, in their vehicle that like their whole life could be ripped outta their hands. And so, I mean this is a chilling effect. There are probably a lot of people that would, that whose spouses would stand in front of a door saying, look, you may want to go protest this, but I can't have you be gone for the next three years, you know, serving time in a prison, so you're not gonna go protest. And then that just cascades on and on. I mean, it seems pretty obvious that's what they're trying to do.

Shaun Newman [00:15:04] Yeah. And when, when, when an outsider right, tell talks about them, I'm like, yeah, you're, you're bang on. Right? Like, so, so that's the big news on the Coutts four. And then to top it off, they're appealing the government, the crown is appealing, the conspiracy to commit murder charges. So it's almost like to add a little salt to the wound. They're also gonna appeal that they're not guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. It's just, it just seems like they're gonna drag this out as long as they humanly possibly can. And sitting here in this chair and interviewing people around it, you know, my my goal was to just learn more about it because I, when I first saw the picture and for, for your listeners when it first came out, there was this huge headline and it showed this gun cache of like, just like a crazy amount of weapons. And I, I was, you know, the human instinct was, whoa, I'm not for killing cops. Whoa, this has gone way too far. And everybody backed up and it got the, the, the effect that I believe they wanted to have. 'cause the longer you, you start to listen and talk to people. Yeah. Did they do some things that maybe like you could go, okay, that wasn't a smart choice, certainly, but, but like nothing happened beyond, nothing happened and we got things going on in this country right now where things are happening and they're having a slap on the wrist. So it's, you know, you listen to the mashup and you know, the mashup can be the funniest or the most depressing thing on, on my week every week because of just like the state of affairs in Canada and I, I, I mean we hardly enter into the United States.

Shaun Newman [00:16:39] It's not like you guys get a free pass, but like staring at some of this. It's, it's, it's pretty wild up here. And you know,

Vance Crowe [00:16:46] So you said something kinda kinda wild that I want to check back in. Sure. Like, so in the US when you go to trial, if you get found not guilty of something, the government can't come back and be like, oh wait, wait, wait, wait, we want another shot at this. It's called double jeopardy. You don't have the double jeopardy in Canada.

Shaun Newman [00:17:03] Well, I, I always thought, and I guess this is where I'll show it, you know, I certainly don't know. All I always thought double jeopardy is you couldn't serve time for the same crime twice. But that's not the case.

Vance Crowe [00:17:16] I mean, I, I could be wrong about the words I'm using here, but in the, in the US system, if you are declared not guilty, you never have to go to trial for that. Again, you can't be brought up again on trial, on charges. But regar because like the, the government doesn't get a chance to appeal when a jury comes back and says they're not guilty. But maybe that begs the question, was there a jury there who, who who said, yes, these guys are guilty.

Shaun Newman [00:17:40] Well, so this is what, so this is what got everybody real fired up this morning. Okay, so the, the Danielle Smith and now by the time this airs Vance, I realize I'm dating myself here, but, so by the time this comes out, Danielle Smith had been on the podcast and I'm just gonna see if I can pull up because everybody was in a tizzy because she said a jury of their peers found them guilty. And so that's what you're asking about. And then, and then the comments after that went absolutely berserk because a whole bunch of 'em said it was the judge. And so I'm just gonna, this is, this is where my thought was. It was a jury of their peers, found him not guilty, not guilty, blah blah blah, blah, blah. Found him guilty of certain things and then the judge came out and gave verdict on how much time they were gonna get. That was my understanding. But like when I started listening or watching the Twitter thread this morning, and I, you know, of course if I should have had it pulled up, but like people were like losing their mind about that. So I don't, I think there was a jury there, I'm like positive there was a jury there. I'm more than positive that that's how they got found guilty. But after that I'm like, I think it's the judge lab who came out and said, this is how much time they're gonna get. I think that's how it went. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

Vance Crowe [00:19:07] Yeah. And in our system, it just depends on what kind of case it is. Whether the jury gets to hand down the, the, the, in a civil case, a jury gets to award damages in a criminal case, I think most of the time the jury doesn't decide how long do you go away, their job is to say, did you do it or not? And then the judge looks at it and says, well, the jury found you guilty, so I'm going to give you these, this punishment for it. But regardless, the the Danielle Smith conversation is deeply interesting. So people don't realize that, you know, you only have a few premiers, you know, that's essentially the governor, you and of Alberta, which is a massive province in, in Canada. You get her on the, on the show. You had been accused in the past of going a little too light on her. You, you know, I've, I've heard twos give you jabs. I've heard other people say, yeah, hey, you know, you, you're not going hard enough. You're saying, look, I got her on. If I go too hard, she'll never come back on. What am I supposed to do here? How did you do this time? You said she tapped dance around some questions. Did you go hard in the paint?

Shaun Newman [00:20:08] Well, I don't, I don't know. I,

Vance Crowe [00:20:11] I wish I'd have listened to it. I just didn't know it was out this morning. Otherwise, I, no,

Shaun Newman [00:20:15] No. Let's, let's put it to you this way, Vance, who's you? Like? I don't know about you. I'll, I'll just answer my own question. The hardest critic, critic of Shaun Newman is Shaun Newman. So when I come out of any podcast, I sit and like when it, something really bothers me. And that's usually when I have the premier on. 'cause you know, you just know thousands of people are going to watch it and they want, some of 'em want blood. Some of them think she, it just doesn't matter. You cannot appease all the people. And so I would say, the thing I've been saying about my interviews with Danielle Smith since you became premier is the first one was like getting in a boxing ring, but having the big foam helmet on and the the mouth guardian and I got my big gloves and, and you know, I have, we're all kinda laughing and you're kinda, oh, this is fine. Right? And then I got tore up because I'm like, aren't you gonna ask her? And I'm like, oh, I was just, I was happy for, you know, like I, I voted like interviewed her all through COVID and I'm, you know, like I, I try not to show bias, but back then I was really pulling for her. She was the one who got my vote. I never said that on air, but like,

Vance Crowe [00:21:16] I think, and she has a ton of skills to be on air. 'cause that's what she was before she became premier, she was a conservative talk show host and Correct,

Shaun Newman [00:21:22] You know,

Vance Crowe [00:21:22] Spent hours and hours and hours doing this.

Shaun Newman [00:21:25] Yes. And so the next time around I would say, you know, you understand you're getting in the ring like, okay, we're not putting the protective gear on, but you're still, you're fighting the person who's made the career of doing this. Right? And, and, and before she was a radio host, she was the official opposition of our government in Alberta, right? This isn't, this isn't just somebody who willy-nilly got into politics. And so this time around I knew exactly what it was gonna be. But now you're starting to see her be able to be like, okay, you wanna step in the ring? That's fine. We're gonna dance around some of your questions. I'm gonna pick apart, you know, I brought up Donald Trump talking with Elon Musk about, you know, looking at efficiency in government because he reduced 80% of Twitter and I stupidly said 80% of Twitter. And so she's like 80%. Wow. 80%. And she went off on a 80%. I'm just like, you realize that's not what I'm saying, but I get what you're doing and you know, like there's a time crunch so I don't get Danielle Smith for two and a half hours. That'd be a lot of fun. It'd be a lot of fun to just be like, okay, let's talk about Coutts. Why are you, but but then the, like, the way it works up here is the official opposition, which is the NDP are going to lamb baster. So they give you this time constraint. At least this is my, my experience. And in that time constraint, a politician is gonna talk. So you better pick your questions very well. And then you gotta get real comfortable real fast with interrupting her when she ain't answering the question.

Shaun Newman [00:23:00] But then she's gonna push back on that, oh, why are you interrupting me? Don't talk over me. And I would say, how did I do better than the two before? But I got a lot to learn. I'm still learning. And I look forward to hopefully sitting across from that lady for years to come where I can go back and forth with her. Now we have an official, she has a leadership review coming this year. And so that's, you know, part of what the conversation was on, because like literally there's, there's some undercurrent here of people that were like staunch Danielle supporters that are questioning her leadership right now. And the Coutts thing is just one of multitude of things from I would say more of the freedom minded group. But in, I'm not saying that's the entirety of it. And so, you know, like I think,

Vance Crowe [00:23:47] I mean to hear twos talk about it, he's prepared to vote for the NDP because of how disappointed he was. And I imagine there are a lot of people, you know, when you have unmet expectations, you're gonna have conflict. And people really thought, Hey, we're putting somebody in into office that's gonna be able to make the sort of changes that allow Alberta to be sovereign, you know, have some energy freedom, have some ability to not be bottled

Shaun Newman [00:24:10] Down. A simple, a simple one was just a tax cut, it was just, she ran on giving people a tax cut hasn't happened, you know, when she simple little stupid things. But they all matter. As we had a ta we had a, a gas tax of 13 cents and it was at zero provincial fuel tax. And you know, the, the way a politician taught, well it goes to roads and it goes to infrastructure and on and on. When she got in, it was zero. They, they had put it to zero to help people cope with what was going on. And then it went up to nine, you know, and then on April 1st when the federal government was introducing all their taxes, which she's mad about, they put it all the way back up to 13 and you're like, read the room, just read the room. And I don't know if it's her or if it's her entire team, but you know, it's just, it's politics and you see people all the time get involved in it and you're like, they're, they're staring at a different world than what this simple podcast host stares at. I guess I'm just one voice right out of 5 million in Alberta.

Vance Crowe [00:25:11] So, you know, you mentioned taxes, people having a lot of pressure on them, inflation, I know in the US inflation is bad. The government wants to tout like, hey look, it's down, you know, to two and a half percent, two half percent, or it's down to, but it's still, that's, that's two and a half percent of the new normal, right? It's it's that e that even if you bring that number down, you're still accelerating the amount that you're, you're decreasing the value of the dollar. What's going on with inflation in Canada right now?

Shaun Newman [00:25:38] Yeah, well they're doing the same thing. They're saying, oh, it's, it's going down. But I I I, I saw a great post and because somebody said, could you just explain it to me in like layman's terms, I don't get what we're down to. Two and a half percent inflation's going down. Meanwhile everybody's struggling to pay their grocery bill and their heating bill and rent and on and on and on. And somebody said, oh imagine you're 180 pounds and, and you know, and then you gain 20 and then the next year you only gain 10 and the next year you only gain five and the next year you only gain two and a half. And you go, I only gained two and a half pounds this year. And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly it. And that's Canada right now. And we're not doing like go to the grocery store. Anyone will tell you that the same cart load is like, you're getting less and less in a cart for the same amount of money. Right. Money isn't doing what it, what it was. I don't need to tell you that, you know, like other than to just say Canada is very similar to the states. We probably have a few oddities that are a little different than you guys, but have been for quite some time. And the one I'm thinking of specifically is probably fuel, like gas is, is more expensive here. It just, it just add

Vance Crowe [00:26:47] Well and you buy it by the leader and that's weird. Nobody really knows. We knows how much is in leader.

Shaun Newman [00:26:50] We've gotta differentiate ourselves from the old Americans for sure.

Vance Crowe [00:26:54] Well, I mean, when I think of, of the struggles that Canada's gone on, one of the things I've learned, you and IB friends for all these years traveling up there visiting you, it seems like everything that you guys go through two years later we have going on here. And it really seems like people are, I think people that used to be like, ah, government's not that big of a deal, Trudeau, ah, I could go either way. When I am hearing, when I'm talking to people that I know in Canada that are relatively liberal, most of the people I know are, are either in farming or fishing. Like, so there's gonna be conservative people, but there are a lot of people that I have would never have imagined would would say a course word about Trudeau is basically like, turn the whole thing over. We want nothing to do with this. So, but I have a very skewed perspective on this. Does it ultimately meet out that you think Trudeau is gonna be exited? Are you gonna have a conservative government in Canada after all this inflation and people having trouble buying houses and all this stuff?

Shaun Newman [00:27:57] Well, if you go by polls, which I hate polls, but let's just, you know, let's see what the polls, the polls say, yes, we're gonna have conservatives in.

Vance Crowe [00:28:07] I don't believe in any polls. I don't, I I think they're a total, I think it's like throwing confetti up in the air and being like, count how much is here? I don't, I don't think it means anything. At least in the United States. I don't know.

Shaun Newman [00:28:18] There's been, there's been, I hate to throw this, you know, like when do people change vans

Vance Crowe [00:28:23] When things are awful? When they cannot awful stand it anymore. Yeah,

Shaun Newman [00:28:27] Right. So things are really, really, really, really bad and, and yet times are just good enough that it doesn't have enough people mad, right? Like during COVI, there was a point where you couldn't even walk across the street without being yelled at if your mask wasn't up to your nose, right? Like it just got to insanity points can't leave the country can't do this. It is affecting everybody. And when everybody's affected like that, all of a sudden the convoy happens and the government says they can't do anything fast. And let me tell you, boom, boom, boom, you know, things happen quick. Jason Kenney, we were just talking about this two days ago. I was saying, you know, the freedom convoy happens and it's like within two weeks things start coming off and the person looks at me two weeks, no, he comes out and he says, by a week we'll have the, the, the VAX pass. So this pass, you know, that allows you to get into places. It'll be off by, you know, a week from now then it was four days, then it was the next night. Like, things happen fast because everyone was pissed. And it doesn't matter how many little Karens are running around saying, well, you know, like boys can be girls, sorry to all your listeners, if we, if I'm offending anyone, I don't think I will be, but you know, like they're just stupidity in the world and Karen's have this loud voice somehow and they're getting funded by all these people. And somehow the rest of us just like, well I guess, you know, whatever, let bygones speak bygones. So why I'm saying all this is during COVID, you could have overthrown the apple cart and they knew it. And so that's why, you know, the EA pisses so many people off.

Shaun Newman [00:30:00] And that leads back to Coutts. Okay? So where we sit right now is, it looks to me if I was the guy pulling the strings, and I don't wanna get too tinfoil Hattie, but I would put Pierre Poilievre in. And the reason why is people will go back to sleep like right away. Like Pierre in conservatives in things are going back to the good and in fairness, you know, he's gonna do some things. He's probably gonna ask the tax, the carbon tax. That is, he's probably gonna defund the CBCI would guess. And then he is gonna try and do some other things that conservative minded people probably will endorse and be like, rah rah, we're on, we're we're going right way. But you bring it back to what Danielle Smith is doing and why part of her base is pissed is 'cause she ran on a bunch of things. And even if she's doing a lot right, it feels like it's taken way too much time. She's dragging her feet and people wanna, they've already seen how quickly governments can move and they're playing this game where it takes time and we need, we need to have another group and another panel take a look at this. People are getting fed up and on top of it times are tough, inflation is brutal, things are strange, you know, like it's just, and the judicial seem system seems like it's, it's it's wound up against us, which has probably been for a long time. That is rant off fans have your saying.

Vance Crowe [00:31:16] Well, I was thinking that when I was younger. I remember I I watching this documentary and it was of people in East Germany and there was a kid there talking about how things weren't that bad and the parents were like, well, you don't understand, before the wall was put up, we had way better, you know, access to groceries. We had way better, you know, the, the electricity, we just had better access to the news, whatever things they were saying they had better access to. And the kid was like looking at them bewildered. And I think that that's something that's kind of going on right now in our culture is that as you lose freedoms, as you lose, you know, the benefit of technology, the, the low prices, the new normal comes in and people forget what it used to be like. I mean, how much do people remember what COVID was like just a few years ago? People have already forgotten it. You get this new normal and that level of complacency for what will it mean to upset the apple cart? Where are we trying to get back to becomes very distorted in people's minds. I think

Shaun Newman [00:32:21] Y yes, I, I listen, I I agree with you on what you just said. People have a very short memory and sitting in where I sit, I just talk about things, you know, over and over and over again. I see different sides. I follow up on certain stories and you know, people right now just think of our age group, right? Young kids, some days it's just like you roll into bed at eight 30 at night and you hammer your pillow and you are out and you get up and you brush your teeth, you comb your hair and you go back to it and that's rinse and repeat. And pretty soon, like a month's gone by and you're like, or a week or whatever you, timeframe you want and you're like, where the heck did the days go? And you don't have enough time to, to worry about some of the things that are going on on a, on a political stage, let alone you know, who the Oilers are playing next. And apologies to Vance. 'cause I know he isn't that big of a hockey fan.

Vance Crowe [00:33:13] Oh man, I think that you're, you're totally right about the amount of stuff when you're, when you're at the prime age of I should be paying attention to politics because this is gonna impact my children's future is when you have the least amount of time to do it. And this is like,

Shaun Newman [00:33:30] I've been totally, well I've, I've been wrestling with this Vance, okay, our age group right now. Okay, now, now you can take that anywhere you want, but I would say 35 to let's say 45, you are like, you know, very energetic. You, you, you know, you, you got ideas you want to implement, you want to be a part of your community, you want to do all these things. But then being a young father, I'm like, I'm trying to balance out, but I don't wanna be gone every night. I wanna be around my kids. Every old timer tells me, when you get to their age, they wish they would've spent more times with their kids. And that's what they miss. They don't, they don't cherish there. There'll be billionaires out there that go, you know, you want your kids to wanna hang around with you when they get older. Well, you don't get that by just disappearing out of their life and not to mention what that does to a marriage and everything else. So I wrestle with this all, all the time, right? Because right now with the limited success I've had with the podcast, you get asked to do like a ton of stuff, which you wanna do. But then I'm like, but then I'm gone that weekend and then I'm gone the weekend after and then I'm on, then I'm gone there and you start to realize, well then I can't coach my kids' hockey team. And I can tell you right now, the best, the best decompressing like to just to relax the stress relievers, to go around with a bunch of five and six year olds on the ice and watch them scream and yell and cry and everything in between. And so to lose that outta your life is like, and yet, so to lose that outta your life might be the most detrimental thing in the world.

Shaun Newman [00:35:00] But on the, on the flip side, while the world's burning right in front of your eyes and you are getting asked to go help things, I don't know how to balance that. Well, I I know how to balance it. I just, at the same time you, it's, I don't know, how do you do it?

Vance Crowe [00:35:14] Well, I, I would say that doing these Legacy Interviews, I know you've started doing some Legacy Interviews, you did 'em in the past. I have had this great benefit of hearing people talk about their lives and my perspective is a little bit different than yours. I've heard a lot of dads in particular, but moms too say years later, Hey, I didn't wanna be gone, but I needed to, the family needed that money and I don't regret it. And I hope my kids understand that sacrifice. And that's been something that's been really good for me to hear because I have this incredible tension between if I want my business to be successful, then I need to be working on it. But if I'm working on it, I am not with my children. My wife is also running a business. And so there's that constant tension. Every minute I'm spending with my children, I'm not spending on my business every minute I'm spending on my business again, away from your children. But w but I don't want to just feel guilt for where wherever I'm at, you know, I don't want be with my kids and being feeling guilty that I'm taking away from their future. And I don't wanna feel the guilt of I'm working late and being like, ah, I didn't get a chance to read 'em. And they're not gonna wanna read biscuit books for very long, but they're, you know, they wanna read about that little puppy. And if you give that up, you're not gonna be able to go back and get it.

Shaun Newman [00:36:30] Yeah, that's, it's once again though, it's, it's the balance of that, right? I think the, the the the guilt thing is important. No matter what you're doing, don't feel guilty about it, right? Like, but at the same time, make sure you're not sitting up till 12 every night playing video games. You know, like, like there's, there's sacrifices you have to make even in that train of thought, right? Like, if I'm gonna push, let's go push. But when I'm with my family, let's be with my family and let's not have guilt over where I'm at.

Vance Crowe [00:37:00] I have this great marketing mentor of mine named Steve Boden. I, I hope he listens to this, but he one time said to me, you know, Vance, if you wanna be successful in this world, you wanna run a business that works. Sometimes you gotta kill your puppies. And that was like, what are you, what are you talking about? But just like you were saying, you get offered these things to go give a speech to take on, you know, different opportunities with Legacy Interviews or different podcasts and you're like, I don't want to give that up. That's such a precious thing. Not very many people get this, what a big opportunity. And he was like, yeah, you can't do it all. You have to kill some puppies along the way. And that's, I I think there's probably a metaphor similar to that with, you know, how, how you balance everything raising your kids and whatnot.

Shaun Newman [00:37:43] You know, I was out a that's a real tough analogy, right? Go kill some puppies.

Vance Crowe [00:37:50] I hope he's the one that told me that otherwise he's gonna be sitting there being like, I never said that, but I'm pretty sure it's Steve.

Shaun Newman [00:37:55] I just came from, you know, like of all the things that, you probably have things on your side you've done, you're like, I never thought I'd be doing that. This will be the second funeral. I've, so today why I was late getting in here, not that your audience knows or cares, but I was, I was MCing a funeral which was about as un uncomfortable a stage you can be on, right? You have to be somber kinda, and you know, you're trying to respect a family's loved one that's passed on and on and on for some reason it took me back to the first conversation me and you ever had where you're like, what do you want when your dad, I'm like, I dunno. People show up community to show up and like, you know, I probably sound like a real hill hillbilly back then, but I was watching this, my, my, it was in Hillman where I'm, or originally from this small little farming community and you know, like it was a, it was beautiful. It was like all the families came out and shared some laughs, some smiles. It was a sad day. They talked about that being a sad day. And yet there they all were, they all came out, supported the family. You gotta see people you hadn't seen in forever. The food was that you will find no better food than a small town Saskatchewan funeral. I mean some Saskatchewan person's gonna argue with me on whether you can get it at the curling club or what have you. And like that's what I, I think that's what people need outta life is that type of community. And yet I go, I don't know how the heck you find it in today's world because we're, we're running at such a fast pace and there's such a lack of trust for rightfully, rightfully so at times, right?

Shaun Newman [00:39:34] Because, you know, some horrific things have happened in, in different places over, over the course of time. But I don't know how you get back to that. I was, I was kind of watching it and there's a generation of my parents, so, you know, people probably in their late fifties to probably early seventies, you go, what do we got 20 years of this left? And then this is just gonna, is this gonna slowly dissipate or is there gonna be a new way to find community in this, in this future we're running into where you can have all these families come in at a, a funeral and and really surround one. I don't know if that makes sense. I don't know how it goes in St. Louis. I just see what my eyes from a small town farming community do. And I've seen it over and over again today just really knowing I was coming on here, I was, I was paying attention to it going like, this is something, and I think we're losing this.

Vance Crowe [00:40:21] Well, I know where I grew up, small town, central Illinois, the a funeral was a big part of the community activity. It's, it's actually like sometimes you would have some churn there where you'd get to see people you hadn't seen in six months or a year or a couple of years. And now that I'm in St. Louis, I think I've only been to one funeral. I've been here for 10 years, right? And that just goes to show how disconnected from the community I am. I, this made me think of an experience I had when I was growing up. I, one time was dating a girl and her brother died and it was really unexpected. And so, you know, I go to the funeral and she's so upset and she and her parents ask me to sit next to her. I I really hadn't been dating her very long. And she's sitting there crying and I don't really know what to say. So I, I lean over to her, you know, the rest of the, the church is quiet. And I said, you know, I think if your brother were looking down right now watching this, the thing he'd he'd wanna know is, who the hell is that guy sitting next to my sister? And I thought like, oh, it'll like perk her up. But instead it made her burst out laughing. And I don't think I've ever been more embarrassed in my life, but I, that story has no place in it. What we were talking about other than I've never had a chance to tell that story. It's all it works. 'cause you can't walk outta there and be like, did you guys all hear that joke? That was awesome.

Shaun Newman [00:41:52] Well, you brought a smile to her face, obviously, right?

Vance Crowe [00:41:55] Oh man, that was embarrassing, right? 'cause then you're sitting next to the girl that's no longer crying. She's laughing and you're clearly the one that did it. And everybody is like, no, for real. Who is that guy that's sitting there moving on? What do you guys think of,

Shaun Newman [00:42:14] You

Vance Crowe [00:42:15] Know, hey, I wanted to throw something out there so you have a co-host on your mashup.

Shaun Newman [00:42:18] Any, anyways, going back to what we were talking about.

Vance Crowe [00:42:23] You mentioned the mashup. And for my listeners that don't know you, you have your Shaun Newman podcast and then once a week you put out the mashup. It used to be that you did it on Monday nights. And so Tuesday mornings when I'd be working out, I'd listen to it. Now you guys do it on Fridays at 10:00 AM Eastern or 10:00 AM

Shaun Newman [00:42:39] Mountain, 10:00 AM Mountain Standard. Yeah. So 11 Central,

Vance Crowe [00:42:43] You have a co-host on there. He is been a guest on my podcast twos and the, the, I love talking with twos. I didn't like him when you first, when you first had him on the podcast. I don't know if Tus knows this, probably as long as I'm just doing confessions here. I'm just gonna say, I remember being like, what are you doing with this guy? This, this? Like, he's a bozo. Like he's, but then I came to find out like, no, actually this guy is incredibly intelligent and he uses his humor and his like dirty jokes to throw people off the scent. But I listened to this mashup for, for, I don't know, two years. And one time it dawned on me, like is actually the only podcast that I listened to regularly. And I loved the cadence that you guys were talking about the news and you were talking about what's going on. And I, I was learning all about what's going on in Canada and that's what prompted me to start the Ag tribes report. So I started this podcast where each week I bring on a different co-host to talk about what their view of what's going on in agriculture. Because a lot of people think of ag as like one big thing, but the reality is dairy farmers are different than grain farmers are different than cattle ranchers are different than almond farmers. And so now I've started using the fact that I've met all of these people throughout the United States and Canada to interact with all these guests, but part of me is jealous that I don't have a twos where you have this rapport and all these jokes and all of this interaction

Shaun Newman [00:44:04] That you guys have, all this inner hatred. And I told him today that I was nervous. Hang, what the hell did I say? I might as well say it on air, you know, confessions here with Vance. I said something to him along the lines of, I was nervous of my interview with Danielle Smith because I thought twos was gonna tear me apart on Friday. And he goes, you were nervous about my thoughts. And I'm like, ah, fuck. He goes, no, stop it. And he's like, ah, you're never gonna let that down. And we'll see what comes on on the next couple mashups where he takes that. Matt, I don't know, man, I think it's out there. I think everybody's can, can find a partner in crime if you would. Me and twos do a show once a week. And when I first heard him two years ago or three years ago now, maybe he just, he talked differently than most of the people I was normally wanting to associate with. And a, a good show that has back and forth. And now in fairness, my hope is over time we'll have a producer so I can actually have a true back and forth. Because right now, as your guests probably get, maybe they don't right to, to have a show with bells and whistles and dings and dongs. And my brain is half the time listening to whatever he is saying, half the time it's just focused on making sure we move on to the next thing. 'cause if twos was left to his own devices, we'd have a four hour mashup every, every, every Friday. Oh,

Vance Crowe [00:45:25] I know. I did the mashup with him, right? And I kept chatting, I'm like, how much longer are we going here? And he's like, we could just keep going. And I about wet my pants. 'cause I was like, I need to go to the bathroom so bad. And I think we did it like two and a half hours or something like that.

Shaun Newman [00:45:38] Well, so that's a fun month. You know, this was the first year I ever slowed the podcast down in five years. So in five years minus right after the convoy, I have done everything so methodically, whether it was one podcast a week, whether it was two, whether it was three, whether it got up to five. And then for once on family holidays, I went, okay, July, I'm gonna slow it down. I'm gonna get, we're gonna have some guest hosts come in on the, on the mashup, which was a ton of fun. The audience loved. Because now when you talk about cadence, me and twos have our cadence, we have our things that piss us off about each other, and we go back and forth kind of like an old Mary bickering couple is kind of what I've been told. But for the most part, we have our little cadence. But as soon as you stick in a guest host, the cadence gets thrown way outta whack because Tus is trying to figure out, well, I got Vance Crowe hot, and you can hear him trying to like, but you can't do the same cadence because you're not me, nor is Drew Weatherhead, nor is Chuck pr. Right? And so this, this little thing starts happening and it's, it's almost like enjoyable. I went, I listened to all of them. I was like, this is, this is fascinating, right? I don't wanna do I I wanna be back in the seat, but at the same time, to be a part away from your show, right? To le release things on the Shaun Newman podcast that don't have me in it is like, this is, I have no idea where this is going. And I don't know how long I see two and a half hours. I'm like, what is dues doing? He knows we shoot for an hour and 15 minutes. Whether we hit that folks is, is beyond, I mean, we're pretty awful at that.

Vance Crowe [00:47:07] Well, so that's the, the side that I get is the guest co-host. And one of the things that I've tried to set up with the Ag Tribes report is we do headlines. And then I ask them like, what, you know, what's the price of land where you're at? We convert it into Bitcoin. And then I start asking them, who's your worthy adversary? So who is somebody that's on social media that you respect but you totally disagree with? And what is your Peter Thiel paradox? And what I love about this is you take somebody that is normally very comfortable, really well respected in their, in their tribe, and you, you we're doing headlines, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Then we go to like, now tell me about a, you know, something nobody agrees with you on, but you gotta say it in a way that now you can talk me into agreeing with me on it. And then you've gotta tell me about somebody that you don't like, but that you respect. So it makes people nervous and I love it, right? It's like this high pressure situation and, and you start to see the colors of people peek out that you maybe wouldn't normally see. And you see who's successful at creating that banter and who's just like colliding into the wall.

Shaun Newman [00:48:11] One, one of the things that I like seeing about you Vance right? Is something that lights you up, right? Like I started doing on my side, I got a sub stack, right? I'm not a great writer. I'm gonna say that right off the bat. I'm not a great, I'm not gonna sit there, write a, you know, an essay and everyone's gonna be like, wow, you should write a book. Nope, not me. But I really like walking back through the week, chopping it up a little bit in a little clips and putting out like a little week in review. I did it like two years ago, but it was so much freaking work that I'm like, I just can't justify it fast forward and I'm like, I got this substack and people want me to release stuff, but I don't wanna just fill up their inbox. Like, what's the point of that? And I'm not having fun. Like I just, I just, it's eating at me. So I just stopped July. I'm just like, fuck it, I'm not doing anything. And then I had the idea again. I'm like, I should do the weekend review again. I haven't done that in a while. I started doing it, I started getting up at five in the morning and chopping up these little things. And I'm no magician when it comes to videos, but I think they're decent. And I'm having lots of fun again, I'm having so much fun that I'm getting up on 5:00 AM on Sundays to do this. And when you talk about your ag report, I go, you're having fun. That's the main thing. That's what me and two said about the mashup while we're at what, 1 24 this week. So what is that? Over two years ago we said we're gonna do five and if we weren't having fun, we're gonna stop. I said, I don't wanna give a shit if we get 10,000 views or we get zero views. If we're not having fun, there's no point in doing this because like every week will become monotonous where I don't wanna see and talk to you and I don't care.

Shaun Newman [00:49:48] Not to mention the mashup is like three hours at least, of reading of headlines. At least every week you just sit down and you just gotta crush newspaper after newspaper, after newspaper. Sometimes I get so frustrated by the CBC, I just want just, I just don't wanna stop. But I enjoy it so much. And when you talk about the aport, I'm like, I'm glad you're having fun. 'cause I think that's the main thing. And once you start having fun with it, your audience is gonna catch on to that. And then they, and then they come along for the ride because it's fun. Like this is a ton of fun. But that's a different cadence. It's a different field than just a one-on-one.

Vance Crowe [00:50:23] Yeah. The, the Ag tribes report, like interacting with all these people that are really like highly esteemed in their field. So I had a woman named Tyne Morgan on, so she runs, you know, one of the most prestigious weekly news shows. And in a couple of weeks I just got an agreement from a guy, this won't mean anything to you, but a guy named Bill Bullard who runs an organization called Our Calf is gonna come on. So our calf is the rebel cattleman. These are the guys that are saying, oh, your national checkoff, like F off, we hate you. You know, what you guys are doing is all wrong. You're in bed with the lobbyists. And as soon as the NCBA picks up the phone and says Vance, who, you know, we don't like that you did that, I'm gonna be like, all right, well send your president on. Let's have him on. And I'm gonna just keep trying to bring as many different tribes as I can from all different directions. 'cause right now there isn't a place you can go. You can either go to the rebel side or you can go to the mainstream side, but there's nobody mixing all these things up. Mixing

Shaun Newman [00:51:20] And matching. Yeah. There

Vance Crowe [00:51:21] Is nothing more fun for me in the whole world than finding people that don't agree and being like, let's just push you closer together. And I wanna get to the point where like, what you were doing, I, I wanna get to the point where I'm making debates happen where, where we, where I'm moderating a debate and, and we make this like really a place where people can have different ideas, but we talk it out because I mean, I think we can all see what happens when we stop talking and we just say the other side is evil.

Shaun Newman [00:51:48] Yeah. We get to exactly where we are on the brink of World War ii Civil War. Nobody's willing just go to the simplest coming to your communities. Nobody's willing to talk to each other anymore. And what did I say back at the funeral? I'm like, I look around, I'm like, man, this is what you want. You want people sitting down and happy to see one another and what are you doing? And oh yeah, that's great. Not worried about some of the insanity that's certainly government is pushing right now. So bringing people together, especially if they disagree, is probably of utmost importance at this point. I, you know, it's, it's a hard thing to do though. It's a hard thing

Vance Crowe [00:52:31] To do. Your tweet right before we got on was about, you know, the adults need to step in, otherwise we're gonna hit to either nuclear war or World War iii. And it was basically a tweet with Putin in, and I didn't, I didn't even have to look at it. I just had to say like, look no further than the conversation in the Trump Kamala Harris debate. Like, these are not people having sophisticated thoughts about foreign policy. These people are bludgeoning each other with bats. Do you think the west may stumble into a nuclear war?

Shaun Newman [00:53:02] Well, I'm gonna say this first. Okay? I get no vote. Sadly, this Canadian doesn't get to vote in your election. So before I piss anybody off on who and what I think I just want make that very clear, right? Like I don't get to vote. So it's like a Canadian watching what's going on. I don't like the Democrats because they have been in government, acting government now for four years. And we are precipitate, we are so freaking close. It is insane to me. And I look at that and I go, if they stay in, we're going to war. Like it. To me it just like, heck, we might already be at war. We probably are at war. And the video I was showing with Putin is, you know, the west has given you Ukraine, the ability to send long, long range missiles into the, into Russia, right? It's like, and what Putin's saying is, if this is true, then it's NATO countries, EU countries giving them things, which means they're attacking us, which actually means we're at war with nato, which means we're, you know, and you're like, listen, you can hate or love Putin. I give two craps, look at what our countries are doing and look at where we're heading. We're heading per so freaking close. It is mind blowing. And so I go, if the Democrats get in, for sure we're going to war scares the shit outta me. You know, I am of age where I'd probably, you know, be if they ever drafted, you know, if it ever got to that, if it wasn't a nuclear war where everything just blows up and we all carry on to the abyss.

Shaun Newman [00:54:36] You know, like if, if we're to actually have where people go off, and it was something that resembles World War ii, which I don't think it will be, but you get the point. I'm still of age and then I got young kids and they're boys and where are they gonna grow up into? Right? I'm just not for it. On the flip side, you got the Republicans and you know, Trump the bombastic ass. He is, I do believe he will call Putin the first days he's in office. And if you listen to what Putin's saying is like Biden hasn't called him in two years. There's been no communication. What are we talking about with communications? Like, listen, I

Vance Crowe [00:55:11] Get it. He couldn't even talk to who would be the president that he would call That would be a coherent per, I mean, who literally could he call

Shaun Newman [00:55:18] It isn't Biden and I mean Kamala Harris resembles Justin Trudeau so much to me, it's just we live in really fucked up times. Pardon the F-bomb. And I don't know, world War III feels like it's already here and I don't know if you can put all everything back in, but Putin specifically seems like he's dragging his feet for the next 50 days. Maybe I'm wrong to see what happens and shakes out in your guys' election.

Vance Crowe [00:55:47] To me, the thing that is driving us towards World War III and my audience is, you know, they've heard me say this type of stuff hundreds of times you have too is is the fiat system. It is the endless printing of money and the war machine that was like, Hey, what a great way for us to get rid of all our old munitions so that way the government can print more money and then buy more real munitions in advanced weaponry. And they're doing this because they're all making money off of that. They're taking cuts. And I never used to be a person that thought our politicians were literally corrupt. But now I think it is absolutely undeniable. You look at the way that they get to do insider trading the way that they own, you know, they get to know what stocks are gonna do well, and, and if we're going to war, and the only way this ends is to get on a Bitcoin standard because the war machine, the draw to it just there, there is such an endless draw towards war, towards power, towards spending money that you, that is somebody else's. That until there is an absolute control where there is no ability to print money, we're we are in the inevitable trap. Even if Trump gets in then, you know, how how long could he be president for at most four years? You know, like that's it. Like that's, you know, so to me we are on the path of nuclear war until we get off of the US dollar.

Shaun Newman [00:57:10] So you're not worried in 50 some days. Who gets in then?

Vance Crowe [00:57:15] I mean, I think that you're right. I, I agree with your assessment that Donald Trump showed during his first election that he was absolutely gonna shut down wars and figure out a way to do it so that the US could save face and also, you know, back out. And then when Biden got in there, you see what happened in Afghanistan and all of that insanity. But the over the long term no, because I, I mean like I think the fact that Biden is the president, but he's not the one actually running things is all the evidence you need. Yeah.

Shaun Newman [00:57:47] That

Vance Crowe [00:57:47] The, that position is ceremonial and that it is, it is far more ceremonial than people believe. Because at the end of the day, the only reason that president has power is if the military listens to him. And I think that our military has shown when Trump was in office before that they were going to openly say, yeah, we, you know, we showed him reports that told him this thing even though we wanted this thing to happen. And I, I think that it's very clear to me that it doesn't really matter who you elect because we are being run by the bureaucracy.

Shaun Newman [00:58:23] Hmm. I am I think Trump buys you time, or at least in my mind, that's the way I look at it. Trump buys,

Vance Crowe [00:58:32] Why, why does he buy you time? Last time he got elected, they burned down cities, right? They, they were dropping off pallets of bricks and people were burning down cities and you know, the whole conversation was about, you know, should we, like all the fires that were going on outside the White House, I mean all the insane protests, I I mean I think it, it it is equal chaos in all directions.

Shaun Newman [00:58:57] Trump gets elected and they burn down your cities. Biden gets elected, they go burn down, trying to burn down the world. Like yeah, I mean you look, you look at it, right? I I mean I

Vance Crowe [00:59:09] Think I, I, I see, I think I feel the the temptation to be like, ah, the group that we have, you know, they're, they're leading us towards this thing. Let's get the new one in. And like, I, first of all, I think that Trump, like whoever he was when he ran for office eight years ago, I don't think he's that guy anymore. I watched part of the debate and I mean, I found that it was so farcical. I was like, I could either be doing this or sleeping and sleeping's more valuable. But what I noticed was he does not have the same pop. Right? Sure. There were opportunities for him to make jokes that he

Shaun Newman [00:59:44] Or, or, or it's, it's not the pop, it's that he's done it for so long that everybody knows it's coming. You know, I watched him and Theo Von and I'm not a big giant Theo Von guy. So like, not because I don't, it's just his style. I don't know what it is about his style that kind of just irks me on, on a level. But saying

Vance Crowe [01:00:04] That now you guys are remarkably similar. Me, me

Shaun Newman [01:00:08] Feel v

Vance Crowe [01:00:09] Yes. Yeah, absolutely. In the fact that you both disarm people by how simple you come off and that, that that's, that's actually like why people are, are, did

Shaun Newman [01:00:19] Vance just call me simple folks? I think he did.

Vance Crowe [01:00:22] Yeah,

Shaun Newman [01:00:23] No, you come off, he's simple.

Vance Crowe [01:00:24] You know exactly what I'm saying. You ask simple questions and the people that ask the simplest questions are the best listeners and that's what he

Shaun Newman [01:00:31] Does. Oh man, he

Vance Crowe [01:00:32] Ask great questions 'cause they're simple. So you can hate on Theo von all you want, but you're just looking at a little mirror reflection. You're just not from the south.

Shaun Newman [01:00:40] All right? All right, well when I'm doing cocaine and I'm on my front porch like an owl, you know, anyways, What, what I was saying about that interview was what Theo Von did for Trump. I, you know, I'm sure somebody else has done it, but I, I can't remember it. I listened to the Tucker Carlson one, it didn't come out there. And with what Theo Von did was he allowed Trump to show his his human side, like his actual person. No, I don't drink. And he actually disarmed him like you're saying. And you got to see, oh my God, Trump is actually like, you know, when his guard's down talks like a human being and and actually like has a human side to him. I feel like what Kamala Harris is doing exceptionally well right now, hated her love. It is she is selling this portrait of herself, of how she was. She's just one of you. She's just like this whole humble girl and she roses up and everybody's, you know, we're all gonna be better. The middle class gonna be better. Meanwhile then Trump all has to say is listen, look at the last four years what you're selling doesn't match what the world is. So stop it. And I wonder with Trump's team if they should do a little more of what they did with Theo Von, where it's like appeal to the voter base. You already got the mega fans, you already got the, we're gonna, you know, I, I can't do the voice. Do

Vance Crowe [01:01:59] You do think anybody doesn't already know who they're voting for? I dunno. Do do you think there's anybody in the United States that's like, I don't know, I'm kind leaning this way and I'm kinda leaning that way. I think the probably not question is will I go to a vote or not? Is probably the biggest question is,

Shaun Newman [01:02:14] So what would

Vance Crowe [01:02:15] Will I take the time?

Shaun Newman [01:02:16] So what would you wanna see out of any of the presidential candidates that would get Vance out of his chair and go, yeah, I think it's time to go vote.

Vance Crowe [01:02:26] I mean, the Ukraine war is, is probably the biggest thing to get me out out of my chair. Like, I mean, my brother, you know, mocked me mercilessly, but I mean, I got iodine tablets to put in my house because I am, I'm, I feel like it is a strong possibility that there'll be a nuclear weapon that'll go off somewhere that will blow fall out. And I want my children not to lose all their hair and they'll, you know, the, their liver's ability to function. So as long as we don't get hit by a nuclear weapon, I'm gonna try and do everything I can to survive. And I think that's a real possibility now. And I like that. Probably makes me seem like a crazy person.

Shaun Newman [01:03:01] It doesn't,

Vance Crowe [01:03:01] But, but you know who

Shaun Newman [01:03:03] Fucking whatcha talking about Russia had boats at Cuba. What, what do you like, feel like a crazy person? No, you're crazy if you aren't paying attention to this. Realizing how precipitously freaking close we are to this and you got sleepy Joe and I am gonna use their words at the helm and we all just, we've been discussing, you got nobody at the helm, there's nobody to call. He's walking around giving handshakes to nobody. He's calling people by the wrong name, he's going the wrong way. It's just, it's awful. So you got Kamala Harris who walks in. I just don't get, your guys' process is probably like the hardest. The thing I've argued with Democrats specifically about, and Republicans, you can come at me too, it's fine.

Vance Crowe [01:03:47] You don't know any Democrats. What Democrat do you know? Oh, I'm,

Shaun Newman [01:03:52] I'm married into a family from Minnesota.

Vance Crowe [01:03:56] Okay, believe me, fair enough.

Shaun Newman [01:03:57] I'm surrounded by

Vance Crowe [01:03:58] Democrats

Shaun Newman [01:03:59] And the thing that I don't understand right, is why you wanna win so bad that you'll put your finger on the scale and won't get the best candidate, right? So Biden gets in. 'cause everybody thinks he's good. I I don't quite get that 'cause he was the president and they probably sold some story and then by the time they're around he does the first debate, they just give it to Kamala. And I'm like, but that's not the way democracy works. Like if your best leader is RFK Junior and I know you're a big fan of him or it's somebody else, Bernie Sanders, I don't care. I honestly don't care. Whoever it is, Gavin Newsom, I could care less if that's who people vote for. That's who should be the leader of the Democrat party. But what they did was a little slight of hand all of a sudden Kamala Harris is your leader. And I'm like, okay, you talk about it being a figurehead position as a president. I'm like, what they just did proves it more so than the, than Joe Biden being the guy. 'cause they just circumvented how you should elect your leader. That, that it happened right in front of you. And here's the thing, can you're not alone. Canada's the same way. Pierre Poilievre is gonna be the leader of probably Canada here in another year. But if you go back to when the conservatives had their leadership race, there was three guys who made the, the, they had to hop through these hurdles to get on the national debate scene for becoming the leader of the conservative party. And they did some funny, funny stuff there too. And nobody raised an eyebrow. It's like, well, the conservatives know what's best. It's like, no, that's human beings playing. Like they're playing. They're, they're stacking the board so that they get the guy who's gonna do the things they want because they care about winning so much.

Shaun Newman [01:05:35] It is no longer about democracy. And honestly, I might be getting black pilled about this a little bit more. I talk about Vance that maybe this has been the way ever since the beginning. And this is just human nature and humans are gonna constantly screw ourselves over because they want the power, they want to be at the top. And so, you know, like rant off again, you got me fired up.

Vance Crowe [01:05:57] I mean IIII probably was the most naive about politics and government that, that anybody could be. I mean, I, I went to Washington DC and joined the World Bank thinking like, finally I'm going to be able to help save the world. And then you get to DC and you're like, holy shit, there is so much corruption here and it's way out in the open and doesn't anybody see this? And then over time you kind of fall down that path. And I like the challenge of democracy is that it is really only effective at the smallest possible level where you know, the other people that you're voting with, where like what your vote does is it elects somebody that you know, somebody that's gonna have to see you. It probably only works in communities somewhere around the Dunbar number and then beyond that, you know, you're voting abstractly for, for the, the figment of an idea. And I think that could work for quite some time. But the, one of the lessons I'm pulling from Legacy Interviews is how much community involvement people had in the past. And a lot of that stemming from the fact that we didn't have cell phones, we couldn't do email, we couldn't imagine that the, the efficiency was allowing us to transcend. So people had to show up and in showing up over and over week in, week out, month over month being the president or the treasurer or the secretary, you got to know those people and then you were gonna go serve in this elected office. And then when you came back, you had to have a job. You had to be a part of the community. So you were answerable to that.

Vance Crowe [01:07:29] None of the politicians at the national level are gonna answer to us. Nancy Pelosi has so much money from her, you know, amazing ability to trade stocks. She's never gonna answer to any of us. So the, i i, it's, I feel weird saying it, but I don't think I'm going to teach my children like democracy. You live in the greatest country on earth because look how much freedom we have. Like, I, I don't know that I believe it.

Shaun Newman [01:07:53] Yeah. This is this, this where we get to or where I'm getting to is kind of what you're saying in is that that, like, what I'm starting to realize, right? I'm an eternal optimist, but where I'm getting to is like, this has been going on for thousands of years, not, not 50 years. Don't kid yourself, you know, you take any tinfoil, hack conspiracy, you want, you put it back to Club of Rome, Fabians, go further back, go further forward. I don't care. It's just today's version of what went on in days of Rome and before that. Like people are corruptible and people are selfish. Hey, I got a selfish bone in me too. And I'm, I I wrestle with that all the time, right? And like, this is, this is a human problem we got going on. And then we put it in a package of democracy. And I've said this a lot late, well over the course of probably a year is monarchy here in Canada gave us our freedom and gave us the illusion of democracy. And I feel like I'm starting, or maybe I've been clueing into this for some time. And then you start to see the illusion or the game, right? I just, on Monday, I I I'll have Martin Armstrong out again. He was put away for 12 years and he has a light way of talking about it. And he just says like, once you understand the game and what the game is, you know, you, you start to see for what the consequences are, you start to see of what a government is capable of, of what people are capable of, of, of attaining power, of trying to attain power.

Shaun Newman [01:09:28] And then you have to either play by the rules or go and not play that game, but you're still gonna live under what they build because you're in a country that has a government and, and then all the things that stem from it and you know, you just keep talking about this and it just keeps presenting itself over and over again. And the more you realize it, the more you're watching the debate stage. You're like, this is like, is everybody else seeing this? Do people even care that this is what's going on? And I think part of what politicians and people in power realize is the bread and circus thing, right? If people are busy and for the most part happy, they're gonna grumble and then they're gonna go vote their day and they're gonna forget everything and, and just carry on. And the weird thing about sitting in these two chairs, vans is we stare at it all the freaking time.

Vance Crowe [01:10:13] The book that Black Pilled Me was a book called The Dictator's Handbook. And there was a, there was a YouTube video it

Shaun Newman [01:10:20] Created fantastic. Created

Vance Crowe [01:10:21] A guy named, named CGP Grey called, yeah, called the Rules for Rulers. And it's describing like when you get in charge, you're not, if you're like the president or the dictator, you're not actually in charge. What you do is you get to be the CEO, you get the money that comes in the door and then you hand that money out to these different groups. And as long as you continue, as long as like you're, you're buying both what they can bring you military roads, whatever. But then they are also like, they wanna serve you 'cause they want to stay, keep you in power. And, but if you mismanagement, they, they throw it out. I, I listened to this and I was like, yeah, well that's for people in Cuba or Venezuela or whatever. And then you start looking at it at the United States and you're like, whoa, actually that's what's going on here. That's what they're promising, you know, they're gonna do for a leader. That's how the, so for me, that black pilling was a dark time for me because it, it took me from this naive, very hopeful person to being not hopeful until I found Bitcoin. And I, this may be why I'm, I'm so, I, I so try and talk about it with as many people as I can because it is for the first time in human history that you have a money that the government can't take over and, and you know, start the idea of seigniorage where they're the ones that get to choose what is money and how, how, how available it is that gets taken away from them. And when it gets taken from them, then the power gets pulled out of that and back into the hands of the citizens.

Vance Crowe [01:11:52] So I've been black pilled and then probably orange-pilled that brought me back up to the surface.

Shaun Newman [01:11:57] I told you I bought my first bi, oh, well not my first actual Bitcoin, but I've bought Bitcoin. I dunno what that means, you know?

Vance Crowe [01:12:02] Yeah. Talk about it. How did that go?

Shaun Newman [01:12:04] Awful at the beginning. Like I, I just, so I bought Bitcoin and then my bank shut down my entire account I was in, I was in the States and they wouldn't gimme access, you know, and most Bitcoiners would be like, oh, they just chuckle like you just did. Oh yeah, welcome to the game. And I'm like, welcome

Vance Crowe [01:12:23] To the game. I'm

Shaun Newman [01:12:24] Like, they literally shut down my bank account, my main bank account. And so then I called them and listen, I wanna be very clear it was a hundred bucks. It wasn't anything. I just wanted to make sure I knew what the hell I was doing and that it got deposited in the right place and you know, there's no point in going crazy. I, you know, I don't even know what the hell I'm doing half the time. And so I called them and they're like, oh okay, this is Mr. Newman. Yeah, well can you, you know, you go through the thing, do you remember what you were buying? I'm like, yes, I know exactly what I'm buying. Why are we doing this song and dance? I was buying Bitcoin, why is it such a big deal? And yes, I sounded like this folks 'cause I was pissed and I was in the States and I couldn't access anything. And they're like, well you know, we've had problems with that site. Let me get my manager. So then they put me on hold for another 10 minutes and then they come back on Mr. Newman. Yes. Yes. So do you remember what you were buying? I'm like, yeah, I already told the first guy I was buying Bitcoin. I don't know why this song

Vance Crowe [01:13:17] And dance is going on. And then

Shaun Newman [01:13:19] They're like, well we've had lots of complaints about that website. Do you remember for sure this is the website? I'm like, yes, I met the guy. Well how do you know the guy? I'm like, what are you talking about? If I send money on an etransfer, how do you know I know that person well Etransfer. And I'm like, well that's all it is. It's an e-transfer, it's an e-transfer anyways, it doesn't matter. I'm getting into the nuts and bolts of this thing. I get to the point where finally they unlock my account. He said, okay, just so I'm clear, I'm going to etransfer this again. Is this gonna shut down my account? And he's like, well I can't be sure. I'm like, you can't be sure that I've just spent half an hour talking about you shutting down my account to this specific one and I'm telling you I wanna send money to it and you're gonna tell me it might get shut down again. Let me tell your audience. What I ended up doing was starting a new account, showed up to Bow Valley Credit Union and Brett Oland in Alberta. 'cause I just started a new account and I transferred there. Nothing got shut down, nobody cared and life carried on. So that is my experience in it. And as soon as I shut it down, I'm like, oh, I kind of, part of me is pissed. Part of me is like, oh, I'm over the target right now. And let me tell you folks, when you're over the target, they do weird crazy things to you. And you're like, you know what? Screw the system. Screw all of you. Just let me do what I wanna do with my money and leave me alone. So that's how it went. That's how it's going.

Vance Crowe [01:14:34] Well I mean everybody that gets engaged in Bitcoin has this like learning curve that often is when they encounter the world allowing you to get involved with Bitcoin. My learning story is that I actually was, I had a a client before I went to work for Monsanto. I was running my own company then and I had a client pay me in Bitcoin and I didn't know very much about Bitcoin at the time. It was very early. So I left it on the exchange and for whatever reason, time passed my, I shut my company down because I went to work for Monsanto. So I didn't have access to the email that I used to start that account. And I would try and call Coinbase and be like, Hey, I don't have access to that email account. This is my stuff. I can prove it. You know, you used my id, I can show you got another government id, but you couldn't get anybody on the phone. And so they went for, it was actually more than two years where I was calling them about once every two weeks to be like, Hey, what can we do about this? Until they finally released it. And when I had it on those exchanges, it was worth virtually nothing. And then by the time I got it back, it was worth a lot more. But that was when I learned that very cold hard lesson. Not your keys. Not your coin. So if you don't actually have the wallet that says that you can send the Bitcoin somewhere, then you don't have it. But everybody has to go through these experiences and far better to go through it Now when we're not on a Bitcoin standard as

Shaun Newman [01:15:54] Opposed to have you, me and you have talked back and forth about this off air of like, you know, talking about Bitcoin journey and, and different things. I wonder Would there be a way, now maybe this is an offline discussion, but that heck bring your audience in and maybe they can laugh or maybe they'd be like, that's a, a good idea. Have you ever thought of like doing an online conference style Bitcoin conference for there's, there's like two sections of this group. Okay, because I went to Bitcoin rodeo and Bitcoin rodeo was so far over my head. I don't even know what I was doing there, but I gotta do some interviews with some people and that was really cool. I had no idea, like everything they talked about useless. And I'm sure if somebody were to step into the Cornerstone Forum next year, hopefully when that, you know, I wish I could announce it here, but we haven't quite firmed up where it's gonna be. So when they walk in, I assume if they're uninitiated, I'm like taking that experience into my back of my brain. I'm like, how can I make sure that everybody's like enjoying the ride? Because I went to Bitcoin rodeo and I'm like, man, I I I don't even know what I was doing there. I, you know, it was cool. I get it. Yeah, there's some cool people here, but if I wasn't interviewing anyone, it, it did nothing for me. It didn't help me learn anything about Bitcoin. Now in fairness, if you're Vance Crowe or or Dave Bradley who put it on and you've been in Bitcoin for 10 years, you don't need the, the ABCs of Bitcoin. And you would probably argue, well guys like just go online and, and find the 10 YouTube videos. And yet I'm like, that's another human piece of nature that we just are where Vance Crowe did a ABC's a Bitcoin and brought out his 10 guys.

Shaun Newman [01:17:32] He knows that could explain the nuts and bolts and different things. I'd probably tune in and watch. I, I just, I probably would. And honestly if you had me on to ask some questions, I'd probably ask really dumb questions. But it would help the beginner because the one thing about Bitcoin, I, I was just shocked at how hard it was. Not in the physical realm, but in the mentality around it to get things to work and all these little intricacies to make sure you have a wallet to the wallet's gotta go here and on and on and on. And me, and you've just talked about this offline a lot. I think it'd be an interesting idea for you just throwing that out there.

Vance Crowe [01:18:08] Well, it's a good idea. And in fact a guy named Jay Curtis, who you may know, he, I know he listens to your podcast. He lives up in Ontario and he came down with his wife to do a legacy interview and he'd originally been like, Hey, I want to pay you in Bitcoin. And I was like, sure, let's do it. And he's like, well I don't, I don't really know how to use Bitcoin. And I was like, okay. So what we did was when he came down the day after his legacy interview, he stayed at the hotel right next door to the studio. And then the next morning when I came in, we recorded him moving Bitcoin from an exchange, which is really easy. That part you wouldn't need help to do. You just, you sign up with an exchange, you say, I'm gonna give you this much money, you're gonna gimme this much Bitcoin. But when you wanna move it to a wallet, that takes a little bit of, of a little bit of technical knowledge. So what we did was we, we got him a Trezor wallet and we plugged it into his computer and we filmed us going through each step to get it done. And Jay has since gone back to Canada and sent me money with his Bitcoin and like you see like, ah, you know, like he got it, but I'm totally with you. There's like it when when you've done it, it's not hard. But when you're a white belt, when you're that first day there, every word doesn't mean anything to you. There's so many concepts that you're trying to get your head around that you just need somebody to take you by the hand and walk you through it. I had somebody take me by the hand. And so I'm gonna post that video here. Yeah, you prompted me to do it. I'll, I'll get it out. It'll be at Legacy Interviews dot com slash Bitcoin and that video should give anybody that wants to get onto the Bitcoin world, it'll give you, it'll give you an understanding of it.

Vance Crowe [01:19:42] So you've just made me prompted to get this thing done before, before we end this podcast.

Shaun Newman [01:19:48] W and the other, the other thing is like the, the group of Bitcoiners are like extremely friendly and extremely closed off. I don't know if I can make that make sense because it's like, how can that be? I found, I found them so eclectic. All you find bitcoins and yet it's, it's like this closed off group. It's, it's a really interesting thing to interact with. And so I just look at it and I go, there's gonna be a ton of people that think bitcoin's a scam. And in truth where I sit could be, I mean it could be, but we all know I, I had one of the guys at the conference telling me, yeah but what do you think of fiat currency? And I'm like, well that's, it's a bit of a scam. And he's like, right, so what are we talking about here? And I'm like, fair. Okay, okay. So you're gonna have a whole bunch of people that got their, their tail feathers out. I dunno, I dunno. And yet as you start to interact with some things, as you're pointing out, I'm like, oh this kinda makes sense. I don't mind this. And maybe there's some things that can start to happen and get the wheels moving and some ideas flowing and you know, I just, I look at your audience of probably Bitcoiners mixed with certainly my group of, I got some Bitcoiners on this side, but I would say there's more like me than not where we're like, eh, I just bought some Bitcoin. Don't know what the hell to do with it. But I got some and my bank account got shut down and that was a lot of fun and I had a crazy afternoon and I still got some and it's great, but I don't know what I'm doing, you know, I'm just, I'm hanging out here. There might be something there. So I look forward to seeing the video 'cause I, I think I'll, I'll make sure that I, that I share along with my audience.

Shaun Newman [01:21:19] 'cause I think it'll be much needed and it always helps when it's somebody you know and you're like, they're not trying to bamboozle you. Right.

Vance Crowe [01:21:28] Well I, I, Jay was the one that suggested we record it and I was glad that we did it and I have just needed a reason to get it up. So that'll be at Legacy Interviews dot com slash Bitcoin. This has been fantastic Sean, I know you had a lot going on today. Thank you so much for hopping on. If people wanted to check out the podcast or interact with you more, where should they go?

Shaun Newman [01:21:47] I think the easiest place is probably just Shaun Newman podcast on Spotify Apple podcast. If you're an X user, that's where I interact for the most part, the most. I'm not a giant social media guy, but Shaun Newman podcast on, on, on Twitter asked Newman podcast is the handle. And yeah, I would love to hear from your audience if they start listening and they like my stuff on all the episodes. I have my phone number, they can shoot me a text. I do answer it. I do talk to people from all over the place. And if for some reason you found me through Vance, I would love to hear that too. 'cause I'd love to share with Vance. Hey, got a couple, 'cause we've had some people who started listening to you that have come over to me and, and are sitting in Alberta and we know exactly who we're talking about. So shout out to Dan and, and, and there's others I should point out. And that's been a really cool experience for me on this side. I'm sure you have your own thoughts on all of that.

Vance Crowe [01:22:39] Oh yeah, I mean the, our crossover audiences are fantastic and even though it makes me a little nervous to be too close to you, 'cause I think one day your government officials are gonna come pick you up in a, in an unmarked car and take you away forever. But if that happens then I'll, I'll I'll come up and take care of your favorite. You

Shaun Newman [01:22:57] Know, I read, I read and I know Vance is trying to shoo me outta here. So I read short little story, I read the Gulag Archipelago and there is an old woman in it who eventually gets to the point of like, you know what, just do whatever you gotta do. And it's unnerving for the Russian guards because they're just like, you know, their fear, their their bravado. They're like, we're gonna, we get in and it's like, I wanna be like a little old woman. So like, if that's what they gotta do is they gotta come, if we get to the point in Canada where they're gonna come put a bag over a married man, happily married with three beautiful kids because he talks to people from all over the planet and that's the stage, maybe it'll wake some people up. And if that's where my journey takes me, I ain't afraid to go there. I don't wanna go there, but I'm not afraid to go there. I'm just like, well, I'm just talking to people. And if that's so offensive to you, well it's time more people woke up. And so where I sit is like, I don't know how to do this dance any other way than I've been doing it. Which is, you know, at times, four steps backwards and one step forward. And at times I feel like I've made a little bit of an advance. I get to talk to the premier, I get to talk to some other people, I get to talk to this person, I get to talk to that person. I get invited on Vance Crowe show and if at some point the Canadian government says that guy's gotta go, I firmly believe we are in real bad do-do. And when they do that, I guess they just best realize I'm not gonna sit there and cower and go, oh, poor me, I'm gonna be like, well better finish the job then.

Shaun Newman [01:24:29] And I know that sounds pretty dark, but I'm pretty pissed right now and frankly I'm not gonna let some, like, you know, Justin Trudeau got a couple of choice words in my head intimidate me, my family, my country, into a place that we don't want to go because it is strange world. And I think you go into that strange world farther and that's your own sort of bag over your head living hell that nobody wants to be a part of. So, Vance, I know you, you warn me about this all the time. I've taken some advice and other times I think it's just you gotta plow straight through the wall and see what happens. Appreciate you having me on and I hope you continue to do so. And I never become too, what's the, what's the word I'm looking for here? Hot.

Vance Crowe [01:25:12] Too hot. Hot to handle. That's right. Well thanks Sean and we'll talk again soon.