Coronavirus Perspective: The Homeless During Coronavirus with Sam Miller

Vance Crowe [00:00:00] As the crow flies on the Vance Crowe podcast. Sam Miller, welcome to the podcast.

Sam Miller [00:00:09] Yeah, thanks for, thanks for having me.

Vance Crowe [00:00:11] So you are a connection, deep, deep

Sam Miller [00:00:13] Quarantine

Vance Crowe [00:00:13] Between my, between my longest and oldest friend Jake now who lives out in the, in Washington state working with, as far as I know, at risk youth. And I've been trying to get different perspectives about how people are impacted by coronavirus from a variety of different angles. And he really thought that you would be a good person to talk with because you guys are at the epicenter of dealing with a pandemic with guys that don't have a lot of options. So, Sam, tell me a little bit about what, what work you do. Where are you at right now?

Sam Miller [00:00:46] Well, right now I am stuck in my house because my mom has, she's high risk for coronavirus stuff. She has, she's older and she has like a heart condition. So I'm not working around youth right now. My job, basically, if school is in session, I work with youth in schools in the Gig harbor, key Peninsula area. And I work with students that are in unstable housing situations or, or students that are having like more severe like behavior stuff going on. And then when school's not in session, then I work at our, a drop in center in Tacoma for unhoused youth. And that's what Jake's main deal is. And that's where I met Jake was when he started working there, back when we were working for a different nonprofit before we got bought out, which is a whole nother story, sir.

Vance Crowe [00:01:44] God, Sam, I didn't even really think about that. But you're dead, right? I mean, there are people that are out of their jobs there. I mean, I think the government is gonna try and push people for a while to not evict Yeah. People that can't pay, but eventually that train's gonna run out. And if those people don't get regular jobs and catch up on their bills, you're exactly right. We will see a homeless population increase.

Sam Miller [00:02:04] Well, a cool thing that is gonna happen is that rent's probably gonna go down. Like that's one thing that hopefully we see rent that's more like, 'cause I mean the area that me and Jake work in, and this is what people don't talk about when they talk about homelessness, is they say, oh, like drugs, addiction, mental health and all that stuff plays a part. But I always like to say this, so like, the reason I was homeless was because I, I suffered, I had, I was a drug addict, right? And I burnt so many bridges, but I grew up middle class and I know how to operate in the middle class world. And I, yeah, I was, I was homeless for, for a couple years, but when I stopped using, I could get outta that really easy. But my mom let me stay at her house basically. So I had that door that I could walk through when I was ready. You know what I mean?

Vance Crowe [00:03:01] Right.

Sam Miller [00:03:03] A lot of people don't have that. A lot of people, a lot of homeless folks that do use drugs, They're not homeless because they use drugs. They use drugs because they're homeless and it helps folks cope. There's also a lot of homeless folks that people assume use drugs that aren't using drugs, and that's like mental health symptoms or trauma that they've experienced and that's coming out. You know what I mean? Like basic, it's like the same idea. It's it's the weirdest thing in the world. Like if I know somebody who's like a combat veteran, I'm not gonna tell them what war is like, but it's crazy. 'cause in the United States when we talk about homelessness, it's all these people that have never experienced it, wanna tell other folks what it's like or like what's causing it or what's doing it. But they don't got any idea. 'cause they, they're not, they haven't gone to school for it. I know that. And they sure still haven't experienced it, you know what I mean?

Vance Crowe [00:03:55] So if you were, if you were homeless right now in, in the situation of coronavirus, what would, what would the guy that was a drug addict be worried about? What would be on the top of your mind, how would you be handling this?

Sam Miller [00:04:10] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I would do. I would imagine that I'd, you know, are you familiar with, with Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

Vance Crowe [00:04:21] Sure. Yeah. But yeah, give it to me from your angle, man.

Sam Miller [00:04:24] Well, I mean, you got the physiological stuff. So I'm gonna be trying to get enough to eat. I'm gonna be finding, trying to stay warm. That would be, those would always be my number ones. And then after that, I'm gonna try to make myself feel better emotionally and all. See, and that's the thing is that if I put myself back in that spot, then yeah. Then I'm, I'm gonna try to get high. You know, that, that's what, when I, when I'm active in my addiction, that's what happens. Unfortunately. What what I think is, is, is folks, I'm not a good representation of that because I'm an outlier in that I grew up middle class. Most folks that are homeless or poor in the United States were were raised in a, a system that where their parents were poor. Like it's generational poverty versus situational poverty. So I experienced situational poverty where most of the issues that we see revolve around generational poverty. You know, that's generational poverty is like, you know, like a, like trailer parks in Arkansas or like inner city areas and like the major cities and stuff like that. That's more generational poverty.

Vance Crowe [00:05:37] Yeah. Where when a guy goes to try and climb out of it, let's say he's made some mistakes along the way. He doesn't have the basement necessarily to go live in and his parents or Exactly. Or even know how the social norms of how to interact with people so that you can get a job Exactly. Or, or function in that way.

Sam Miller [00:05:52] Yeah. People don't realize it's, it's a really, I like to use this example of like, folks that live in poverty, middle class and like rich folks. Like even if the way you look at something like food, like if you grew up poor, it's kinda like, did you eat enough? Are you full if you grew up middle class? It's like, did it taste good? Was it, was it, was it delicious? And if you grew up rich, it's like, did the food look good? Like, wow,

Vance Crowe [00:06:20] I

Sam Miller [00:06:20] Never thought about it like

Vance Crowe [00:06:21] That. The

Sam Miller [00:06:21] Same thing. Yeah. And when you look for a romantic partner, if you're poor, it's like, will he keep me safe? Can he protect me from, from people middle class? It's like, what can they bring to the table? Like, can they help meet my needs? And then if you're rich, it's like, can it advance me? Can I like marry? You know what I mean? Can it advance me in a social class basically? Like, can I like marrying up or whatever. It's really wild stuff, man. And if you don't know that, you don't know that. And the only way to know that is by living it and learning it, you know?

Vance Crowe [00:06:55] Yeah. And if you've been in, like, in the situation where you haven't been confronted with that, like, I mean, I, I gotta tell you, Sam, you are the only, there's, there's only a handful of people I know that have ever been homeless, and this is the longest I've ever talked to somebody Yeah.

Sam Miller [00:07:09] About

Vance Crowe [00:07:10] Being homeless.

Sam Miller [00:07:11] And that's the, and that's the thing, man. And that's the, I guess that's the, that's the wall right there, you know, and the ideas. And I would like to say too that like, I don't consider myself like a fair represent. I think I've made that pretty clear. But that I don't consider myself like a fair representation of like a formerly homeless individual because I am an outlier in those ways. And it in a lot of ways, like I have a lot of privilege by basically having a middle class mom and being able to go to her house and to find my way out. You know, it's, yeah. If that makes sense. I just wanna make that really clear

Vance Crowe [00:07:54] Because Yeah, man, I I think you're, you're being incredibly humble. 'cause I think if I had been homeless, I wouldn't let anybody put caveats on me. I'd be like, I was homeless and so therefore I I know it, I know, I know the experience completely. So I think it's very humble. Yeah. So I, one of the things that I'm trying to do with this particular podcast series is to make sure that I, I think Coronavirus is gonna rewrite the rules of society. I I think this is one of the rare times, maybe once in a generation, once every two generations, you have a situation that's so radically alters what's going on in society, that rules get rewritten, the way things are done get changed. And I think within the boundaries of reality, like we're not gonna suddenly shift the lower class all the way to being the upper class or something like that. Yeah. But things are gonna change as people are going back to rewrite the rules as, as they're going to think about who they should care for, how they should look out for people. What do you hope they know about the unhoused or the people that you're dealing with to make sure that they're considering a population that somebody like me would never come in contact with.

Sam Miller [00:08:58] So I always say this, like, people see the, they see the people struggling sometimes or what looks like a struggle and they, but like folks are resilient. Like folks find ways to survive and honestly like just existing in a society that, that puts so much where wealth is considered to be like the most important thing and existing within that society, at the bottom, at the bottom. What would be considered like the bottom rung of that? That that doesn't mean that there's not still like moments of like joy and like amazing things happening within that community. You know what I mean? And like the best support that homeless folks have is other homeless folks is, is the relationships that get developed and the amazing things that can happen like within the community. And the best thing I think folks like me and folks like you and other folks can do is to, is to build up that community and, and, and kind of sponsor folks helping other folks, if that makes sense. And along with that, like, I'm always gonna be upset that we live in the richest country, the world's ever known, and there's people sleeping outside. I know some folks, I get that idea where it's like, oh, well I, you know, I pay my mortgage and I pay my rent.

Sam Miller [00:10:37] But to me that kind of speaks to what we were talking about earlier about generational poverty versus situational poverty. Like it takes a long sustained effort to break generational poverty. It's not a sprint, it's like a marathon. Like the folks that do climb out of generational poverty, like the amount of work and things that have to like go right, makes it almost as a unit as like a, not, I'm not talking about individual cases, but as a, as a whole, as a whole system, generational poverty. It needs a more sustained effort to break as a whole. And that is something that this country could do. And it wouldn't take as much as people think it would take, you know, like just basic shelter. And so folks know that they're gonna be like warm at night. Like I've, I've slept outside and I know what it's like to be wet and cold and I know what it's like to be wet and cold for like a, for long periods of time. And I know what it's like to, to want to do anything, to not feel wet and cold. And unfortunately the way it's set up, the the same things I do to make myself feel better when I, the same things I did to make myself feel better when I was homeless were the things that were gonna keep me homeless basically. You know what I mean? Like, and that would be like drug use or other coping strategies and stuff like that, you know?

Sam Miller [00:12:07] Yeah.

Vance Crowe [00:12:07] I mean it's that, it's that short term that if you're, if you're standing at the top of the mountain or even a little bit up on the mountain, you can see, oh, those are bad decisions. But if you're cold, like, I, I don't know man, like I, I hate being cold. And yeah.

Sam Miller [00:12:22] If

Vance Crowe [00:12:22] You start looking at that and saying, not only am I gonna be cold tonight, but I'm gonna be cold tomorrow night and the next night and the next night. I mean, you start to understand why people do coping strategies. 'cause even people up the ladder have coping strategies. They just figured out how to totally, how to not let it cut 'em down. People

Sam Miller [00:12:38] Get so mad. People get so mad at homeless folks. They're like, oh man, I saw somebody smoking weed or doing drugs someplace in a park. Like, and they're like, and a lot of times those people are people that smoke weed and do drugs at their house 'cause they have a house to do drugs in. You know what I mean? Or to, to have weird foot sex or whatever they're into, you know what I mean? Like, like whatever you wanna do. And I'm sorry, anybody who's having foot sex, I don't actually think it's weird. It's cool If you wanna fuck feet, that's cool. Dammit. I swear I was doing really good, but

Vance Crowe [00:13:13] Now I'm gonna have to hit that

Sam Miller [00:13:14] Explicit button. Are you gonna, I, sorry.

Vance Crowe [00:13:16] No, that's fine. That's fine. So just creep it out. So, so to finish out, I, I think one of the big concerns, and I heard of people trying to get housing for people in LA is that, you know, how is this disease gonna spread among people that they don't have a way to socially distance? Do you have any thoughts on that? About, about the way the disease will spread among people that are living under bridges and in boxes? And

Sam Miller [00:13:41] This is the deal, is that it's gonna hit homeless communities harder, but it's the same thing where people are like, I hate needle exchanges because you're enabling people to do drugs or whatever. But the people that do drugs and it use IV drugs, like they have sex with people that don't. Okay. And a lot of times it's like, oh yeah, there's a, like, there, there's where the homeless people are. No. Like, you don't, you, you don't, like, folks don't understand it. They're homeless folks are around, they're working in the community. Like I, I know a lot of homeless folks that have jobs and they, they work, a lot of 'em work full time, you know, and they, they can't quite get out of it and they're either living in their car or living in a trailer or they're living on couches, stuff like that. Basically, if they want this, this is the time to do something about housing. Like give folks an ability to, to distance themselves socially. I know in LA some of them are like, screw it and they're taking over abandoned houses. And honestly, I don't blame 'em. And honestly, that might be the best thing for society right now is to take those abandoned houses and give 'em to people that, you know, know that need them. You know, it doesn't make any sense to have people like in these large groups that are going to, that are gonna be spreading this thing. Like, 'cause that is a thing. It's really hard when the government is saying, oh, socially distance, like, stay at home. You know? And at the same time, it's like for the past, what, I don't know how many years it's been where like all the shelters, everything, it's like, we operate at this bare minimum.

Sam Miller [00:15:19] Like they barely fund us enough to even operate. You know what I mean? And now they're like, oh yeah, make sure folks are staying apart from each other. It's like, nah. Like, you don't, you can't do both, you know?

Vance Crowe [00:15:32] So, so if, if people wanted to help

Sam Miller [00:15:35] The

Vance Crowe [00:15:36] Homeless population right now in whatever city they're in, what, what should they do? How, how can they help? Right now?

Sam Miller [00:15:44] I know food banks are always, are always looking for help. A lot of the times what's needed is, depending on the area, I guess, and I probably shouldn't speak to this 'cause I don't all the way know what I'm talking about, but contacting nonprofits that they know work with homeless folks, contacting shelters and just asking them, Hey, what do you need right now? Like, what can I do? 'cause different shelters are gonna have different needs based on the communities they're serving and what resources they're getting from other areas. One thing that's awesome, and I said this before, is that there are already people that help homeless folks a lot and things are changing. But one thing about a lot of folks like me and Jake, and a lot of the people we work with we're extremely flexible and we can change to meet demands and whatnot. And the best thing for folks to do is contact shelters, food banks, charities in their local area and ask, Hey, what do you need? What are you looking for? What can I try to get you? You know, because a lot of times we will, I remember there was some folks, they wanted to make kits for people. So they had like these little kits of like deodorant, toothbrush, I can't remember some of the other stuff. Just stuff that you would give if you had, if you almost what people would bring if they were camping or something. But the thing is, is that we had, we already had way too much deodorant in toothpaste, so we just kind of took the kits apart and took the stuff that we needed and then put the other stuff, and then we gave the other stuff to another charity and then they gave some of our stuff.

Sam Miller [00:17:27] There was

Vance Crowe [00:17:27] One time, so good to find what they, what they need. Right? Yeah.

Sam Miller [00:17:30] Hey, so,

Vance Crowe [00:17:31] So the final question that I ask everybody that's been on the podcast is, where do you think the world will be two weeks from today?

Sam Miller [00:17:41] From, you know, I have some hope that that apex of this is going to be sometime in the next like 11 or 12 days maybe. I hope. I know it's gonna be different in different parts of the country. I also feel like there are more respirators coming and I hope that it all lines up in the way. I don't trust our government and I don't trust CEOs, but I do trust, like most Americans, and most people, I should say, not just Americans, but like that we know how to meet demands. And I think at our base level, like we do care about each other and I bet whoever it is, like the same way that folks that work at shelters are working harder than they have before. I think folks that make respirators are working harder than they ever have before. And folks that make ventilators are working harder than they ever have before, and they're teaching other people how to make ventilators. I don't know. It's,

Vance Crowe [00:18:46] Man, that's the most hopeful thing anybody said on the, on the answer. So th thank you for that.

Sam Miller [00:18:50] There you go.

Vance Crowe [00:18:51] Sam Miller, I wanna thank you so much. I hope your quarantine goes well. Keep your mom safe and the rest of your family safe. And, and of course tell Jake I said hi. Any friend of Jake's a friend of mine, so yeah,

Sam Miller [00:19:03] That he's the, he is the reason I'm here man. Jake's good people, so

Vance Crowe [00:19:06] He's good people. All right, man. Be safe out there, Sam. Yep. We'll see you later. Thanks.