South Dakota Feedlot Dad: Why Giving Kids Real Responsibility Fights Depression

Bryan Moes [00:00:00] You got a 8-year-old kid, a 9-year-old kid, and they hop in that tractor and they can drive it to the next pile on the wide open field. You know that's a great opportunity for them to learn how to control something that is way bigger than they are with tires that are taller than I am and give 'em that opportunity to show that they can learn. And

Vance Crowe [00:00:17] Howdy. I'm Hannah Nwi Wonderer, a production lead at a soybean seed facility in central Illinois and you're listening to the Vance Crow podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here Today we have a very interesting interview with a very rare person, a guy named Bryan Moes, who is a feedlot operator in South Dakota. He's an interesting guy. It's not very often that you meet a man that is in his mid thirties that has five children. He lives way out in what I would consider the middle of nowhere. But he is active in so many different communities that I often turn to him to say, how do I get better at getting along with people? How do I get integrated And think about this in a bigger way. And you can tell that Brian's slow talking demeanor, but his deep way of thinking about things is a great conversation to have and I'm really excited to be able to share this with you because he's a very rare guy. Before we go to the interview, I wanna talk about a concept called the Dunbar's Number. Dunbar's number is a concept of how many social relationships can you have so that you still feel connected with the community that you're in. And different groups have different numbers and it really is how many people can I keep track with what's going on in their life and understand the details enough of what is all around them that I can offer them advice, that I can be connected with them, that I can really understand what's going on. And the Articulate Ventures Network got together a couple weeks ago and we decided that we haven't reached our Dunbar number, but we wanna make sure that we never grow too quickly.

Vance Crowe [00:01:57] So we've decided that between today and the first of the year, January 1st, 2021, we wanna limit the growth to 45 new members. So if you've been thinking about joining, you may wanna do it early because we are going to shut it off after 45 and we wanna make sure that the most enthusiastic, the most interested, feel welcome to join before we shut it down and keep building our community and open it back up to grow again some other time. But if you're interested, I hope you'll check out Network Articulate Ventures there you can sign up to become a member, get away from the free social media where everybody kind of gathers and throws in ideas and maybe runs around. And there is no Dunbar's number. There's so many connections that you can't possibly keep track of. Other people know that we're doing things different at the Articulate Ventures network, so we hope that you'll join us there. Until then, we're gonna head over to the interview with my man, Bryan Moes. Bryan Moes, welcome to the podcast.

Bryan Moes [00:03:01] Thanks Vance.

Vance Crowe [00:03:03] So Brian, if this were a documentary film, you being a feedlot operator would be the villain and I would be hammering you with questions about why you're doing such evils to the world. But that's not at all the case, but there's a lot about feedlots that people don't understand. And when you think about being portrayed as a villain, what does that bring up for you? Why do you think that that's not correct?

Bryan Moes [00:03:28] The biggest thing is is because we have, we have 2000 head of cattle on feed right now and you know, the bigger is evil is corporate, but we're just the family operation. Me and my dad take care of the feedlot with help of a couple people. And that's the biggest thing I try and get out is we're a family operation. We're not evil, we're working hand in hand in our community. We support our community, we help try and grow everything we got going on locally and nationally.

Vance Crowe [00:03:57] I met you at a, at a Farm Bureau collegiate event up in South Dakota and you were like the youngest family man I think I had ever met. I don't think I'd ever met somebody that had as many kids as you did but also had this kind of sensation of being a father. So when you describe it being a family operation, what does that actually mean to you?

Bryan Moes [00:04:19] To me, being a family operation, I grew up on this operation. We started in 1987. Dad went off on his own, broke off from another farmer and we've grown from 30 head to 300 cows. We calve out it's hands on when I grew up and with my family, that's why I am back on the family farm 'cause we love this life. I got a nine, a seven and a 4-year-old that would rather be out here on the farm than going to school. They're sitting in the house and that's what I enjoy seeing them out there helping feed bottle calves. They wanna come out every morning and help if they can and take care of this livestock. It's that passion, that love, that care of these animals that you know, they're another family member to us.

Vance Crowe [00:05:02] So you have four, four kids that can get out and work and you have a newborn infant. It seems like you have a family that's so large that you're almost from a bygone era. I mean, I'm the middle child of seven, but it's very, very rare that somebody has five kids or at least around me. What, what are you living in a, in a lost world, is this ever coming back? Like what do you think about that?

Bryan Moes [00:05:25] I, I look at our community and we're one of a few of my classmates that we have bigger families, three to five to six kids. We're not alone in our rural community here locally. And even the ones that have moved away to different towns, they still have larger families too. So it's still alive and well and I'm really proud to say that you know, I got five kids and I'm trying to raise 'em in this world and help them get through to the future and help them to grow the world.

Vance Crowe [00:05:53] What was different about fatherhood than what you, how, how old were you when you first started having kids?

Bryan Moes [00:05:57] Well nine years ago, I'm 35, 34 now, just about 35. So nine years ago we had our first son and I didn't know if I was ready for it or not. I was fresh outta college. My wife was just finishing school and still finishing some of her teaching stuff. So we were young and kinda didn't know much and ready to take on the world, weren't gonna listen to anybody else, tell us how to raise your kid. It's like, no I know it. You should have been raising your kids like this. And I'm like, there's a reason a lot of people are saying don't tell me how to raise my kids until you've raised a kid. 'cause there's a lot you learn that you don't know, that you don't know.

Vance Crowe [00:06:32] Oh man, that is like my entire experience. You know, you think about like, oh well you know it's time for bed, you just put the child to bed. But you don't realize that child has like something inside of it that says I don't wanna go to sleep. And like all these old wives tales and all these little tricks, you have to have access to them because just trying to do it on your own is like this little mystery box doesn't want anything to do with me.

Bryan Moes [00:06:59] And that's with five kids. I don't think we've had two of 'em that have been the same. You know, everyone's got a different routine at bedtime. You know, one wants to be cuddled, the other one wants to lay out and sprawl out and it's amazing. You know, they have the same parents but they're totally different kids that everyone's their own person. And to deal with that and I'm sure it's different every night for you with your little one that she doesn't always want the bottle every night. Sometimes she just wants to cuddle or wants to stretch and you know, that's, this fifth one's really throwing us for a loop. He is different than all the other ones. So it's like we're learning over all new.

Vance Crowe [00:07:31] And when you think about what you expected fatherhood would be like versus what it actually is, like what's the, what's the difference between those two things?

Bryan Moes [00:07:42] You know, I thought it would be, you know, it's kinda easy. I grew up, my dad was hands on on the farm so I was always with him and me being the only boy, I have two older sisters, it was a little different. I was kinda like the oldest child 'cause I was the only son in some respects, but I was still the baby of the family. And to be there hand over hand with him every day, all day, you know, I thought, oh this is gonna be pretty decent easy. And you get into it and you realize it's so complex and there's so many layers that it's hard to realize what all you have to do. 'cause you're worried about the financial, you're worried about that everybody's happiness, you're worried to make sure everybody's gonna make it to the future and stay happy, healthy. And I'm really family orientated. So I want to be with our grandparents, with our parents, show the kids what our family is. We're, you know, we're a big family unit. We're kind of our own tribe. We stick together and we still, every Sunday morning go to our grandma a's and we all sit and have coffee whether she's there or not. We get together as a family and get together. And that's the one thing I wasn't quite ready for is it takes extra time And I was the hurry up, let's go. I'm gonna get in a vehicle and drive somewhere and be there. Well no, it takes time to get everybody loaded. You've gotta make sure everybody's happy. They've got all their own individual things. You gotta have seating arrangements when you get to five kids. So the two that fight with each other aren't next to each other and split 'em up a little and rearrange. But really I wasn't expected to take care of these kids and watch 'em and make sure that you're here at this time and taking care of all their needs.

Bryan Moes [00:09:13] There's a lot of person doesn't realize.

Vance Crowe [00:09:16] Yeah, I think one of the things that when you're a kid you think, well my parents just say things and I just do it. But you forget as a kid, no, you didn't just do it like you. You were bucking the system at all times and, and you got your parents all the way to the edge that you knew you could push them and then you stopped what you were doing. And so then there's this like weird tension as an adult, I'm starting to realize watching my brother go through this or my sister is that you need to have that child know where that edge is. But if you fall into the trap of making that edge be as soon as they step outta line, then you've got a real problem because that's when you become a tyrant. How do you, like, how do you think about this? Are you afraid of becoming a tyrant?

Bryan Moes [00:10:00] I, I am afraid of becoming a tyrant. 'cause I don't wanna be the guy that just says no or do what I say because I said so. But in the same breath, some of that needs to be okay, you've asked a couple times now I've responded with some answers. You need to just say, okay mom, okay dad, you know, and understand you'll learn more later but you still have to go with the flow and do what needs to be done at that moment. 'cause we can't always sit and explain as parents, you know, everything that's going on and these young developing minds, you have to feed that curiosity so they learn, but at the same time they need to know when enough is enough. And I, I struggle with that point 'cause I got boys that are so enthusiastic about this farm. They wanna know, well why are we doing these bales this way? Or why aren't you pushing this lever or that lever right now? And I try and explain to 'em the best I can, why it's going on. But some of it is you don't know what you don't know. And to get 'em built up to that point, it takes time and there's a lot of knowledge that they don't know as kids and you forget that they don't know. And it, it makes it difficult to relate to 'em sometimes. But you gotta start small baby steps and keep working with 'em and have 'em actively involved with whatever you're doing. So they learn,

Vance Crowe [00:11:13] You know, if you have kids on a farm, I think about the safety aspects. I mean how much this society has moved towards protecting these children is totally different than what it was when I was growing up. And probably really different for you too 'cause you were living out on a farm. But like it, I know people that live in a small town that it's not acceptable anymore for the kids to walk to school like they are expected that parents drive them and that you're abusing kids and then you go all the way over to the other pole where you're talking about, you know, your kids maybe starting to be e either be around machinery or actually starting to run it or starting to handle it. What do you, what do you think, I mean you're living in, in a bygone era in a, in a modern age.

Bryan Moes [00:11:57] Yeah. And to go back at eight years old, I was driving a loader tractor with you know, 8,000 pound bales behind me on the state highway at eight years old, you know, and we didn't really didn't think much of it. You know, you just, you didn't go in road gear. You, you stayed at 14 miles an hour instead of 20. And my wife was the same way, you know, she was strapped onto the seat of the tractor and she drove the square baler while her dad stacked the bales on the hay rack. And now I think back to that, I'm like, I don't know what I want my kids doing that at that age. You know, it's, I'm still worried. But at the same time we gotta give 'em the opportunity to show that they can do it here. Recently we've been hauling bales home from the field with straw bales and we got 'em stacked in the field so we could plant some cover crops and in between stacks it's a long walk if you gotta walk, but you got a 8-year-old kid, a 9-year-old kid and they hop in that tractor and they can drive it to the next pile and the wide open field. You know, that's a great opportunity for them to learn how to control something that is way bigger than they are with tires that are taller than I am. And give them that opportunity to show that they can learn. And by golly they did pretty darn good for driving all by themselves. I mean they've helped me drive around the yard, but you give 'em control of a big behemoth of a machine that can lift 3000 pounds and say here drive this to the next pile for me and park it, put it in park, get it in neutral, make sure it's safe to get in and out. And they're doing a good job. We can challenge these kids and they can really show us their capabilities if we give them the opportunity. And I think we're losing some of that.

Vance Crowe [00:13:23] I definitely think we are, you know, I've been playing around with this idea of, I think that the city culture, whether you're in Atlanta or Washington DC or New York or San Francisco, we like to think of those as really heterogeneous environments and in some respect because of where they're located geographically, they're a little bit different. But I really think that there is a new cosmopolitan culture that emerges. And a big portion of that is you have very few responsibilities, right? Like you, like you're basically caring for yourself and a big part of caring for yourself is giving up rights that you have so that that way you can live in this giant community but when you give up those responsibilities, there's some aspect of the individual self that goes with it, right? Like, you know, a kid that learn that that is learning how to drive a tractor or learning how, how hot it can be in the middle of July if they have to work that does something to who they are as an individual self. And I, I wonder what must the cosmopolitan society look like to a guy that's living out in the middle of South Dakota? Does, does, is it something that you look down on? Is it like how, how do you think about the people living in these societies?

Bryan Moes [00:14:42] I don't know that I necessarily looked down on it. I had the opportunity to move down to Arizona and live in a big city for a few years down there while I was doing some engineering work. And it's a different way of life. But you can still find people who are putting values into their kids. You know, it to me, going to church and believing in God was one of our big staples when we moved down there that was our rock. And to meet people in the church and to see people who are still teaching their kids values and making 'em work. And it was a little different because I look at people who say they don't have time and down there, you know, most people had their weekends off and you know, they had time to do whatever they wanted on weekends. And I took the opportunity to do some woodworking, some of my passions where I was off on the weekends. But now that I'm back on the farm, you know, it's 24 7, you know, it's go, we have a feed lot so it's kinda like a dairy gotta be here to feed on time, morning and night. And that's the one thing, the schedule where they had more flexibility that they weren't pinned down to the schedule where they could go and do this or that. That there's not as much this rigid structure where you have to be there work and you have to take care of this. And some of that was lost on some of that, I believe not everybody, but some of them didn't have that extra ethic where, no, I have to be here at seven, eight in the morning every morning, every day of the week. Or these cattle don't eat, you know, cattle gotta get fed before I do. And that's a big thing with the stewardship of these livestock that I think is kind of getting lost where we're getting three or four generations removed from the physical labor side where a lot of people are getting more of that blue collar work behind a desk all day.

Vance Crowe [00:16:19] Yeah. I really think that the idea of responsibility is one of those things that keeps the darkness away. Like the the, you know, if I wake up on a Monday morning and I decide, ah, I don't really wanna do some work today, there is nobody that's, well now there is because I have a child. But if you're in that environment where you don't have things that are reliant on you, then yeah you're free from it. You do go do whatever you want with your time, but at the same time you the, the responsibility is what actually makes you who you are. And without it, I think that that is one of the things that leads people to depression. I think particularly men because I think men are set up and structured so that the way that they keep the, the depression away, the way they keep the, the i I call it the darkness, right? The, the suicidal thoughts or the, what is it all for is because, well I don't really have time to mess around with those ethereal thoughts. I gotta get things done. And I think that that's one of the consequences of living in a cosmopolitan society is that you don't have those responsibilities in the same way that your boys, they're, they're learning real fast. Hey if I don't get up and feed that calf it, it's gonna die. It doesn't matter that it's cold. Doesn't matter that I'm tired, doesn't matter that I'm don't feel well, I've gotta do it.

Bryan Moes [00:17:37] That's right Vance, you know, they learn that I gotta take care of this and I can watch this grow and blossom into something wonderful. That's, I wonder with you, how has that changed now that you know you have your baby girl there, you know, know you have her counting on you more than it's just not just your wife, it's you have a whole family now and you're trying to grow and develop your daughter.

Vance Crowe [00:17:57] I think one of the biggest things that I didn't expect out of having a a daughter is that the things that are a real pain, right? Like the things that are actually difficult to do, you've got a crying baby, you don't know how to fix it. I thought you would only have this frustration but that frustration has meaning in it, right? Like it's like yeah you're crying and I don't know how to fix this and I'm tired and I want to go to bed, but here I am doing something valuable because if I don't do it no one else will. Or you know, or, or maybe the state would in some crazy situation but like that ends up giving you so much more meaning. And I think, man, I really think that I somehow got way off the path for a long time because I didn't, I didn't really understand that responsibility is a huge component of meaning and now that I have all this responsibility, I don't wanna shirk it. And now I'm like what else can I do? How else can I help? I see the value of my wife and I working together, being so much more deep and important than I did when we were just two people living together that were sharing resources now. We're not just sharing resources, we're sharing this, this, you know, it's a burden but a a great burden.

Bryan Moes [00:19:15] Yeah. And that's one thing that I really learned when we kind of segregated my wife and me after we got married a few years later we had our firstborn child and we moved, you know, 1700 miles away from any family we had and we had to really rely on each other. And I thought that was an awesome building opportunity for us to rely on one another to provide for the house for our son and for our life down there and to make friends and family and connections and learn how to do it on our own. And I think that really developed my wife's relationship and mine to the point where we're able to get through really tough times and we've seen some with the economic times we've had back in oh eight and here recently in 2015 with the cattle market prices, we've been able to lean on each other and pivot and you know, she has her teaching degree but we decided it was in our best interest with our kids that she could be home to raise 'em and use her teaching degree and do a daycare here locally. You know, fill a need in our community. And

Vance Crowe [00:20:16] Do you, does your wife then homeschool your kids?

Bryan Moes [00:20:19] We don't homeschool, we do send our kids to school but she starts 'em going through your colors, your letters, showing 'em how to hold a crayon so they can draw inside the lines and trace and get them to learn the fundamentals so they have that, you know, that step up when they get going in school that they're ready to go and try and do what we can.

Vance Crowe [00:20:40] You know, a couple years ago I went with my, with my buddy Bernard, he goes by chubby IMU on YouTube and we had a chance to go out and speak to this grain co-op in Kansas and there were families from all throughout Kansas and on our own we were just kind of talking with these various families and 12 of the families totally independently at different conversations told us we're homeschooling our kids. And at first I thought like well isn't that funny or isn't that kind of cute? But then you start realizing when you're now responsible for this child, you're like hey, I want this child to have my values and I want it to have the values of my family members that are outside of you know, our immediate family and then maybe my community. But you start seeing like there is like this weird pressure, danger, what are you going to be teaching my kids when I send them off to school? Is this something you and your wife had have had to grapple with or is it because you're in South Dakota you're pretty much fine with what they're teaching your kids?

Bryan Moes [00:21:42] Kinda a little bit of both. I'm still worried with what the kids are getting taught but I'm probably a little guilty of not paying as much attention as my wife. But she's been involved, she has her special ed endorsements to take care of any A DHD kids or behavioral and how to deal with that, with her schooling. With that she's able to understand a little more what's going on with these younger kids. You know, she's up till fifth grade, sixth grade teacher and she pays more attention to what the kids are doing in school. But that's why I try and instill, that's why I try and instill these values in my kids on the farm and locally I know who all my school board members are and a lot of 'em graduated with me and they have the same values as me. And so that really puts my mind at ease that they're looking out for what my best interests are. 'cause they also have crop or livestock and they have the operations that they're taking care of the same thing and want the same goals I do to build our community and build this next generation.

Vance Crowe [00:22:40] That idea, you keep bringing it up as community and you and I have been talking about this for quite some time. I also, before having a child really thought that I, you know, that I was cosmopolitan that that the, the better community was the people far away, the people living in the big city. You know, I was living in Washington DC and in New York and I, I really did not pay any attention to my homeowner's association, my school board, my, the things that were closest to me because it just didn't seem all that cool or all that important. And now I'm realizing like, oh my god, this is by far the most important thing. The fact that I can't name the school board members but I know what's going on with the speaker of the house and the president seems like a a really foolish mistake on my part.

Bryan Moes [00:23:27] Yeah. And when we moved back I had the opportunity, I was approached by, from four HI had bought a heifer calf to show from our local farm bureau member and she kind of heads up all the East River, South Dakota and she kind of said, Hey, we got this position opening for district three young farmers and rancher committee member, I'd really like you to fill it, come down and see what we're all about. They, we had a winter conference and that's one of the best things that's ever happened to me. 'cause it's really pushed me to know I need to take this time away from the farm and build on this community and start working towards my better community and also besides just helping local events, FFA four H and our fire department with their events, getting them up and going. I also need to be a little bit more regionally on the state working on it and touching some of that national. But it all starts small in your local community and you gotta be making sure we've been talking about it quite a bit. You gotta make your own bed first before you can go make other people's bed. So you gotta start small and local.

Vance Crowe [00:24:31] Yeah and I I I, it's one of those things that I keep thinking to myself, well I don't have time, I've gotta do this thing or that thing. But when I look back on my life, there's almost nothing. It's, it's just like this order and chaos concept, right? Where you in everything that you already know and you have control over, nothing new comes from that. Certainly you extract value from, from being a part of your feedlot or my business, but nothing new is ever going to sprout outta that. So you have to go to places where you're encountering different people. And I like one of the, one of my best friends in the whole world, the guy that has probably altered my life more than anybody else is a guy named Rob Long. And it's 'cause I went to an event where they were having a bunch of people that were trying to start their own businesses. It was called the Startup Weekend. If I had not gone to that event, I would never have met him. And literally everything that's going on in my life right now, it would be so totally different that it's not even you. It's not, it's not possible to calculate. And so I always have to have that in the back of my mind of like, no, you're not wasting time. You just don't know what value is there.

Bryan Moes [00:25:38] Well that's go back to when I first met you Vance and I listened to a few podcasts here and there, but our collegiate farm bureau wanted to start something new and I'm so grateful that you decided to agree to come and join them on their big endeavor 'cause wow, all that I've learned from that it was worth the 45 extra minutes drive time to come see you, meet you and to expand my horizons and realize I can go slay my dragons and get out there, get on the edge and stand up for what I believe and help bring people together for a common goal.

Vance Crowe [00:26:13] So you've been a part of different book club parts and, and reading these things. What, what of the book club have you enjoyed? What's been one of the ones that stuck out to you that you wouldn't have read if it hadn't been for the book club?

Bryan Moes [00:26:25] Yeah, the biggest one that I think is The Stranger, 'cause I had a hard time relating to it. I actually listened to it three times. I not very good at reading with my time commitment, but I sit behind the steering wheel of a tractor quite often that all I have to do is put my headphones in and start listening. And I really shied away from the radio and listening to that book it, I hate to say it, but I kinda related with him some. Initially I used to kind of be kind of emotional less and kind of pulled away. And now I that I have a family and I've really grown into that position as a father and trying to raise them, I realize, you know, I gotta be more active and involved and not so passive. And I don't think I ever would've picked up that book and got past Page one of the Stranger if it would not have been for the book club.

Vance Crowe [00:27:10] That's been an interesting one, right? Because there were very few people that were like, yay, we're reading this book on, you know, nihilism at its, its most extreme. So for anybody that hasn't read the book, the Stranger, it is essentially a guy that has no feelings in the very beginning of the book. His, his mother dies and he shows very little feeling and he goes through a series of experiences that you would imagine any one of them would elicit a really shocking emotional response from a person all the way up till, and this is not a spoiler, it's in the middle of the book. He kills a guy and it, it has no impact on him. He just doesn't, he doesn't even care. And it's funny how many people have said I related to him and, and and it's like, I think that that's the darkness thing that we were talking about before. Like he didn't really have any responsibilities or if he did have any responsibilities, he didn't take them unwillingly. And I, I think that that's one of those things that I keep coming back to as deeply important for our society to face is like if you don't take responsibility for cleaning your room or for feeding a calf or for doing something, the darkness is coming for you because it's the responsibility that is that light. And it's that book that gave us this whole set of, of language and words and ideas to be able to describe. And then when we were talking about zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, which is literally the exact opposite where the guy was getting meaning out of things as small as turning a screw to be able to fix his motorcycle.

Vance Crowe [00:28:43] And, and you have this whole language that you can pattern back and forth with with people that were from all over the country.

Bryan Moes [00:28:50] Yeah, and that's another book that caught me a surprise is, you know, I really, with me being a farmer and being more hands on, you know I kind of related with the side that you know, yeah we gotta fix this and you gotta know how to fix it. Why would you not wanna know how to fix your own equipment? I mean you're stuck on the side of the road, you're not gonna get anywhere until the next day when somebody can come that knows how to fix it. You, you gotta know what to do. And maybe granted with my engineering side, I know you aren't gonna be well versed in with all this technology behind engine emissions, how we're changing to the high digital side. You're not gonna know all that and be able to do it, but you gotta know how to diagnose it and get going. And that's really strange that a lot of people anymore the common knowledge of how to fix your own stuff. We've pushed that so far to somebody else that we're so localized in our own knowledge of whether it's like you, you are a great communicator and you ask these amazing questions of everybody. I don't think I could do that but I know how to go in and troubleshoot, you know, an electrical issue as they talked about zen and the motorcycle, it can drive you mad till you find it, then you find it, it's like, well duh, it was right there in front of me the whole time. Why didn't I catch it?

Vance Crowe [00:30:07] And the best part about that book was the, so he talks about, at least to me, he talks about these gumption traps, right? Where it's these he's describing where, where you quit when you're trying to do maintenance or where you really screw up and you and you get frustrated or you get hot or you get annoyed or whatever that is. And the thing that was so amazing was I don't think anybody that has ever tried to fix anything in their life has not eventually hit one of those gumption traps. But I had never heard anybody else describe them. So for a lot of those sensations that he was talking about, I always thought, well it's just me that feels this when I can't figure it out, it's just me that feels this when I'm too hot and I'm tired and I just want to give up. But by by reading something that he had also observed, then you're like, okay, well it's not just me, I have a shared understanding of this author and then you're in this book club and you're like, everyone felt this gumption trap section of this, of this book was like describing something deep to to who you were.

Bryan Moes [00:31:07] Well yeah and it's kind of that breath of okay I can relax. It's not just me, it's everybody else is having these issues and being able to talk with people from all over and realize it's not just localized to farming, it's not localized to sitting in an office. Everybody has those issues and that fact where you can just step back, look at it and come back to it later makes a big difference when you come back and it's, it's right there. It's like, well I just needed that break that breather. Go do something else. Quit for the night and start over fresh the next day.

Vance Crowe [00:31:39] So you, you've mentioned a couple of times that you're an engineer. I don't know what, what kind of engineer are you?

Bryan Moes [00:31:44] I went to South Dakota State University and got my ag engineering degree and I concentrated on power and machinery emphasis. And I also with Noah, I kind of wanted to come back to the farm and have the engineering as my backup. I also got a ag business minor and I did some math minor work towards a math minor as well where I had so many math classes already, maybe a little over achiever and got done in four years with too many things.

Vance Crowe [00:32:10] When you say ag engineer, were you out there learning how to weld or how, what was, what's ag engineering?

Bryan Moes [00:32:17] Ag engineering is kind of an offshoot from like more mechanical engineering but we deal more with kind of the ag equipment side. I mean I had the thermal dynamics, I also had power and machinery where we talked about hydraulics and also gears and ratios. And the one thing with the egg engineering is we got a little more of the environmental side and kind of of cross discipline between the engineering side over here and the egg major side over here where the soils and the natural resources and try to put 'em together. And that's what I really wanted to do 'cause I was able to take soils class to understand our different soil classifications and to monitor those and also our natural resources to watch our waterfall, our rainfall and how everything hits the ground and does it get absorbed. You know, we've worked on our farm since I've learned some of this stuff. Our water infiltration, we've got our organic matter in our soils from two point a half percent up to five, 6% organic matter and each percent gives us an extra inch of rainwater holding capacity. And my engineering side with my statistics, I just, I love this data side where we can show our improvements and we're really pushed to try and get more technology. That's a great thing that I feel I'm able to bring back to the farm is the analytics and the digital side.

Vance Crowe [00:33:38] You know, it's funny, as I was getting ready for this conversation, I was looking up, you know, MO'S family farms and I saw that you got an environmental stewardship award and to be totally honest, in the back of my mind I was like, well they're gonna give those awards to somebody so there's always gonna be somebody that wins. But I see the look on your face as you're talking about the changing the organic matter in your farm and it's not what I was expecting. Like it's something that you actually take deep pride in. Tell me about like if there was no award, would you be going after this? Would you be doing these? The

Bryan Moes [00:34:10] Yeah, we'd still be doing the same thing. I mean my dad has planted over 25 acres of trees on our place that wouldn't have been here originally to give us shelter belts, give us wind breaks and take care of our environment and intertwine with the wildlife we have around. We also have, you know, we're in a prairie pothole region, the glacial lakes area, so we have a lot of slews and low waterways that we wanna make sure that they stay clean and we're not giving any manure or fertilizer runoff. So that's been really important to us. And our neighbor Lynn Johnson really helped with getting us going on that too and working with the natural resources side and working with everybody in the community to make a good hunting place, a good place to live and grow. And we've really taken a lot of animal health into it as well. 'cause we built these mono slopes so they can be partially under the roof or outside they got room to run or they got room to get out of the weather.

Vance Crowe [00:35:11] So you're talking about in a, a mono slope for somebody that doesn't know is is a roof that just is, it kind of looks like a lean to, but, but i, I don't know how to describe it better than that.

Bryan Moes [00:35:21] Yeah, we, we have two buildings. Our newest one that we really like is 80 foot wide by 310 foot long. And we're able to let the cattle get all underneath that in the summertime to get out of the sun and shade in South Dakota. We get relatively warm here, but also we're able to let 'em go outside and stretch their legs at night when it gets cool, it's fun to watch them cattle, they, that sun goes down and they're outside running around where it's cool and having fun and kicking up their heels. And we really take pride in keeping our farm clean and keeping the cattle clean and happy.

Vance Crowe [00:35:57] You know, it's interesting, I was at a wedding this weekend and one of the, one of the people at the wedding had heard the podcast and they had said, oh yeah, so you know, some cattle farmers and we were kind of chatting back and forth and then he brought up a feedlot cattle and he, he, he was nice enough about it, but you could tell he has a little bit of a, a bitter taste in his mouth about feedlots. And we kinda mentioned this at the beginning when I was saying people think of you as as or feedlot operators as evil. Where do you think that comes from? Why, why is that that that is the normal state that people are in?

Bryan Moes [00:36:31] I think a lot of that comes from just the not knowing, being so far removed that everybody thinks a old McDonald's farm, you know, you got a cow, you got a pig, you got sheep, you know, you got a little bit of everything but where we're bigger and have more availability, we specialized in these cattle 'cause we were having a hard time getting land around us. So we decided we have a passion for cattle, we know what we're doing with cattle, you know, and my father led the role on this that, well let's expand on our feedlot. You know, we had good luck with what we were doing with very few facilities and now we've built it up to quite an operation where we're able to run 2000 head through our operation and take care of 'em and keep 'em healthy and you know, give them vaccinations so they don't get sick and get out front of 'em. And that's the biggest thing with all the vaccinations and the bigger numbers. A lot of people are scared that, well you just got all these numbers, you're not looking at 'em, you're not paying attention to 'em. And that's the biggest thing on our operation is I feed every day and if I don't it's my dad feeding, you know, 99% of the time and when we're feeding, we're looking who's coming up to the bunk who's not as perky as they should be, you know, who's a little slow coming up to eat. And we take pride in taking care and watching all these livestock come up every morning and every night when we feed and we clean their water tanks, it's just like you have a glass of water, you know, that you're drinking out of, do you leave that glass there all day to get dirty And you know, it sits there a week, a month.

Bryan Moes [00:38:02] Well we wash our water tanks regularly to keep 'em clean just like it's their drinking glass. And we try and bring people into the community to show 'em and break that stigma where they're so far removed.

Vance Crowe [00:38:13] Yeah, it's, it's one of those things that something happened in the culture where the, where things became so plentiful and so easy to, to get access to, right? Like for somebody to go and get steaks or ground beef or whatever. And so it almost feels like, well it's so easy to criticize, right? It's, it's like criticizing security when you're secure it's very, very easy to criticize it but then without really knowing what's going on, I, I think one of the most surprising things that ever happened to me with feedlots is finding out a lot of the time the cows are raised on pasture and it's just at the very end that they're spending their time in a feedlot. Is that how your feedlot works as well?

Bryan Moes [00:38:57] That's how all of our, we have about 300 black Angus cows that we calve out each year and that's how those are. We just got 'em weaned here a couple weeks ago and we've been watching 'em and taking care of 'em, make sure they're bedded and clean, but they've been on grass with mom side by side with her drinking and also we put out some creep feed, some extra feed for them so it's less stress on mama so she don't have to provide quite so much milk. And when we get 'em in the feed lot, they come right up to the bunk and start eating and we're just like clockwork, you know, the next spring they're ready to go and we got 'em ready to go into somebody's freezer and they make good quality beef. We make sure they have a good life that they also on the pasture and also in the feedlot that they're taken care of

Vance Crowe [00:39:41] Out on Twitter. You know, it's, it's pretty cool to not be, to be against the kind of feedlot system or to be against the NCBA or against these larger groups. Where do you think that comes from and and what, what's your, what's your thought on on the people that are highly critical of these cattle organizations?

Bryan Moes [00:40:03] The biggest thing is, is that lot of people need to get involved if they don't like where something's going. You know, in the livestock industry I've really gotten involved more since I've come back in our local cattlemen's on the state level and we're working on getting our young cattlemen's going a little more in our state here. And my dad has been a big proponent of beef and he does a lot of stuff with the Cattlemen's. We help with our local community blood drives through the Cattlemen's and we set policy from a grassroots there and that goes all the way up to NCBA and a lot of people don't like the $1 per head, you know, fee on when you sell cattle. But I see where it's done a lot of good things for the beef industry and helped us get through some hard times when our markets may not have been as good as they were. Granted they may not have shown a big bonus, but I think they helped our markets and went through it. And I, I'm open to anybody's opinion about it, but I really have seen the benefit of what the Cattlemen's nationally and, and our local state have done to help our beef industry and get the news out that we are here trying to help and work for a better association for everybody in the livestock industry.

Vance Crowe [00:41:14] Yeah, I, you know, I'm, I'm always like on the, the contrarian side of things or on the opposite side just 'cause that's the way I am wired. But I remember hearing you talk about getting involved and being really pretty embarrassed about not, not anything to do with the cattle but like being critical about things but not also being involved. And I think that that's one of the things I really like about you is that like you, my natural tendency is almost to be like the protestors, right? I'm gonna have my complaint and hold up my sign. I don't really but but that, that the real value in in a community is showing up and actually lifting some weight and if you don't like it, well then get there and and lift some weight. Do you think if there was something deep and important that you wanted to change about it that you could make change there?

Bryan Moes [00:42:03] Well I know absolutely I could. I've really learned that if you don't ask the question you may get told no but you aren't gonna know if the answer's no unless you try. And there's a lot of things I've helped grow in our farm bureau that I've been real active in in the last few years and now I am trying to be active in getting more younger cattle producers involved in our state cattlemen's association. And it's amazing the people that, well I never thought of joining it, you know, they're this bad organization. I'm like you can be part of that and you can make it good and the reach we have there, let's keep going with that reach and you change it to the policies that work for you and help get this grassroots. I mean Farm Bureau has had a lot of local grassroots policy that have went on to help nationally, like the diesel fuel for ag equipment being tax different. That's really made it better that we haven't had to pay as much for diesel fuel because we're not using the state highways. And it's the little things that one voice can reach all the way up to the top level, but you have to start with that one voice.

Vance Crowe [00:43:09] So speaking of groups like the farm bureau, I think there's a tough question that that comes out about. 'cause you had also mentioned that you had trouble getting more land and it's not that you couldn't go out and buy land, it's that the land was so expensive that in order for you to buy it, it became prohibitive. You couldn't turn a profit on on that. So what do you think about the idea of getting payments to farmers? Because we don't want them to lose their, we don't wanna lose the number of farmers, but at the same time farmers going out of business is what breaks up a farm and allows land to come up for sale. So how, how should somebody think about the, those two things being balanced, not wanting to lose farmers but also wanting to keep land prices in check so that a guy like you could buy land and break into the system.

Bryan Moes [00:43:57] And that's one of the biggest things is you know, you always have the turnover, the age of the average farmer is getting older every year and if a guy can get out and start working with some of these older farmers, I mentioned Lynn Johnson before, we worked with him for many years when I was just in grade school yet and now we're farming some of his land in our operation because we started working with him. And that's where I think the turnover needs to happen is these older people need to be looking, where's this next generation coming in at? Can we start getting them involved and do some sharecropping or you know, do even cash lease to these young guys that wanna get started, wanna improve that are looking out for the soil health and everything. Not just to farm the ground, to farm it because they have a, a lot of acres. And I think there's getting back to more of that, that these incentives are out there for these older generation to work with these new people to get them in and get 'em more land. And that's where I think we really need to go is help these young beginners get started.

Vance Crowe [00:45:01] So you have been a, an ardent listener of the podcast, so you probably know this question, I'm hoping you've thought of it a little bit, but I didn't give you a warning about it, which is my favorite question. The Peter Thiel paradox, which is, what is one thing that you believe that barely anybody agrees with you on? So if you're involved in all these organizations, what is your idea right now that you're like, aha, people don't agree with me yet on this. What, what's your idea there?

Bryan Moes [00:45:28] I don't know if it's as good as it was before when I initially thought, but you know, don't treat your children like children. Give them these responsibilities and opportunities and you'll be surprised what they can do. Don't just call out 'em and do everything for 'em. They gotta do the hard stuff and learn for themselves. And I think I'm still gonna stick with that 'cause there's a lot of people out there that they're that helicopter parent or they won't let their children get these experience and let 'em drive a tractor at age nine. Age seven by themselves, you know, with nobody in the cab with them. And there's not a lot of us out there anymore.

Vance Crowe [00:46:02] Yeah, I think about that a lot. I mean I had a tremendous amount of freedom when I was a kid. Not only to ride my bike around to wherever I wanted, but I worked on farms 'cause I grew up in a small town, so I'd walk beans, which meant you got to drive trucks, which meant you got to climb into to grain bins and you got to do all kinds of stuff. And I wonder about that for my child who's gonna be growing up in a suburban kind of cosmopolitan world, how is it that you expose your child to the sort of risks that allow them to grow in an environment that says you shouldn't be doing that at all for your kids. You should drive them everywhere. They should be hyper scheduled. I don't know how this is gonna look, raising a parent, raising a child, living in the suburbs.

Bryan Moes [00:46:44] Well and that's just it. And I struggle with it here on the farm even to not be the helicopter parent. 'cause I mean, we got bigger equipment than when I was a kid. You know, I ran a smaller 90 horse tractor, now we're talking 230 horsepower tractors driving around the yard with, you know, 22 tons of manure on the back that going through the yard that, you know, if they're in the wrong spot, that equipment can't stop on a dime. So I still, I'm torn yet that yeah, we still gotta treat 'em like children that, but at the same time they gotta learn that it's their responsibility to pay attention too and, and really learn what they can and can't do safely.

Vance Crowe [00:47:22] Yeah, I remember I was in college and I took a class that I thought was gonna be a blow off class, but it's one of those classes that I have probably probably referenced more than almost any other class in my life, which was a story about the sociology of childhood. And that really childhood is, is almost a new concept. Like basically from the age of like eight or nine, the children had so many expectations for contributions to the family that there wasn't this idea like, oh you get to play all day and then when you turn 18 now you, you know, go into the adult world, which now we've extended beyond 18, it's 21 or it's 24 or whatever. But that's an interesting concept and I wonder how long childhood will be extended for in, into the future, right? Because the longer you go without giving those children responsibilities, I think the less capable they, they feel like they are, are gonna be like you've talked about how many responsibilities you had as a kid or given them to yours. That's gonna keep the darkness away from a lot of, from a lot of children. I I think extending childhood much longer is probably not a great thing for our overall society.

Bryan Moes [00:48:33] No, because to be a a good functional person in society, you have to be involved I feel and have to take the action to make it better. And if you can't make it better, at least talk to the people who can and get involved and get that outreach out. 'cause when I was younger I didn't realize you can reach out and if you're determined and have the drive to you can accomplish a lot of things. I grew up, I was in about every activity I could be and I was in four H and I learned then on the junior four H leaders team that if you ask people if they can do something, they'll usually try and help you and you can make a difference. But the biggest step is you gotta go out there and ask.

Vance Crowe [00:49:13] Yeah, I think that one of the, the four word phrases that's the most important to learn is I need your help. And if you are going out and asking people for help, and particularly if it's teaching you how to do something, because there's very few things that are more gratifying than having somebody come to you and say, I saw that you knew how to do that thing. Will you teach me how to do it? But I've found that there are people my age, you know, in their late thirties that have trouble saying, I need your help. Not because they're so independent, like the farmer mindset of I don't want to ask for help, but for the other reason of like, I don't know how to ask for help or I don't want to interrupt them, or I don't want to impose on their, on their life. And I think that one of the reasons that I had as many mentors in my life as I did was because I was either willing or able or naive enough to go up and ask people for help. And that that is like one of those things that if you're an older person, it, I, I think you really extract a lot of meaning in your life when somebody comes and asks for your help.

Bryan Moes [00:50:15] Well, that's just it. Where we are, we're close enough to our local technical college. We have kids come out all the time and with COVID of course we've kind of went down. But we love giving tours and I feel that's where we've learned the most is giving these tours, giving these explanations, you know, training young kids that are just outta high school responsibility on our farm that come out here to work. And not only telling 'em, go clean this pen, but okay, we gotta clean this pen because one, the water tanks, if those aren't clean, our cattle aren't gonna produce. Just like you, you want a clean water glass, our feed bunks, that's just like your dinner plate. We gotta keep that dinner plate clean so that them cattle keep healthy and growing well. And trying to explain the how and the why together to get that buy-in, you know, get that stakeholder buy-in really has helped us fortify what we do, why we do it. And that's really developed our procedures here on our farm.

Vance Crowe [00:51:12] What is the most difficult thing about being an employer to you?

Bryan Moes [00:51:16] The biggest thing is in the ag industry that I've found is finding people that wanna do this work. 'cause you know, sometimes it's not bad. You sit in the tractor and run it, but then you gotta get your hands down and dirty with the livestock. Washing water fountains isn't fun, especially when wintertime comes. It's cold out freezing temperatures, you know, the, the actual physical hard side of it and reading that livestock and keeping yourself safe and working with everybody else in tandem. It's just, that's the physical labor part and the long hours that I find difficult, trying to get people to be employed and to retain 'em. And the biggest thing we try and give 'em purpose and train them something new and help them learn how to run this equipment. Why do we wanna run it this way, you know? Well it's important to run it good because you don't wanna break it. If you break it, then you gotta do it by hand with a shovel. And to show 'em that it's a lot easier to use the equipment the right way and the careful way and not have to do it by hand makes a big difference.

Vance Crowe [00:52:17] Are you a good boss?

Bryan Moes [00:52:20] I hope I am, but sometimes I wonder, you know, we all have that that mean streak in us and it's like, no, just do it. Get it done. I want to get in the house. It's 10 o'clock at night, you know, let, let's get outta here. But at the same time, I try and step back and think with some of the training I was fortunate, fortunate enough to have is ask more questions and say, okay, well why did you do it that way? Have we not shown you, you know, sometimes you forget that they haven't had all this experience and training. So we gotta step back and say, okay, well we need to do it this way and this is why. And to remember that sometimes it might be your fault that you didn't train 'em in fully and to step back and not just always blame just 'cause you're the boss. I had a boss when I was in high school that told me, well, why do you gimme this? We were doing concrete work and I had to give him a bottle of water. And I said, well, because you're the boss. And he goes, no, that's not why it's, 'cause right now my job is to trowel power trowel this concrete. So it's flat and smooth and that power trow is the set point, the pinch point. And that needs to keep going. If it doesn't, all of our hard work, a level in this concrete pad is worthless. And I've really taken that kind of to heart that it's not who's doing the job, it's what job is most important in the pinch point to focus on that.

Vance Crowe [00:53:39] Oh man, that's a great lesson. You know, and that's kind of goes all the way back to the, to the point we made in the very beginning about you think fatherhood is gonna be like I tell you what to do and then you do it. But if the child has no context for it, no, no way to understand why are we doing it this way then the, then the only reason they'll do it is because you told them. And that's not fatherhood, right? That's dictatorial tyranny as opposed to teaching somebody. But in order to have the patience to teach a child, it's all, it's all internal, right? You've gotta figure out how to be balanced enough to be able to give them instructions and enough context. And then like you were saying, purpose, purpose being I, man, I love that word. That's, I'm really glad you brought that up.

Bryan Moes [00:54:22] Yeah. And that's, it's kind of how the pendulum swings. It's always swinging one way or another, but I always try and remember, we gotta try and keep that pendulum in the center or try bringing it back to center all the time.

Vance Crowe [00:54:34] Well, Bryan Moes, our lives both changed when you decided to drive 45 minutes to the South Dakota State University Collegiate Farm Bureau. And I'm really glad you did. You've been a good friend to me and it was fun to do, to sit down and do an interview.

Bryan Moes [00:54:49] Well, same here. I I'm really glad that we decided to spend that extra time in the snowstorm to come and meet you. It, it's been an honor.

Vance Crowe [00:54:56] Well, thanks Brian. We'll have you back and talk more about feedlots and all things agriculture, community, and fatherhood. Appreciate it, man.

Bryan Moes [00:55:03] Thank you.