#282 | Brian Carpenter; College Professor teaches young people about growing old

About this episode

Part two of Vance's five-part "Memento Mori" series brings in Dr. Brian Carpenter, a Washington University gerontology professor who co-teaches an oversubscribed freshman course originally titled "When I'm 64." The conversation opens by challenging the idea that 65 signals "old age" — a benchmark rooted in outdated Social Security/Medicare eligibility rules from an era of much shorter life expectancy — and moves through ageism (which Carpenter frames as bidirectional, affecting both young and old), the taboo but real topic of sexuality in later life, and the financial anxiety many young people feel once they grasp compound interest and retirement savings gaps. The episode's most provocative territory is Carpenter's critique of how modern society segments life into rigid stages — education, then work, then retirement — arguing this structure isn't natural or necessary and that more fluid, interwoven models (common historically and in some non-Western cultures Vance references from Kenya and Latin America) might serve people better. Vance shares a formative personal story: preschool visits to a nursing home that left him dreading elderly people rather than embracing them, contrasted with his 103-year-old mentor "Pete," who deliberately maintained friendships across generations and is held up as a model for aging well. The two also discuss intergenerational policy tension (younger vs. older claims on public resources), NORCs (naturally occurring retirement communities) as an underappreciated cost-effective alternative to institutional care, Alzheimer's diagnosis and prevalence (roughly a third of 85-year-olds), and close on mortality contemplation — Carpenter says thinking about death "constantly" is not morbid but energizing, and reframes the classic "what do you regret" interview question into "what was the most difficult lesson to learn that was the most valuable to know."

“Why not do it on your own time and do it on your own terms. It's likely to be much less scary and much more beneficial.”

“Many of our social policies were created for a demography that doesn't exist anymore... something's gonna need to change because those policies aren't working the way that they did for us decades ago.”

“It often gets framed as an us versus them, that it has to be a zero-sum game. That if we take care of old people, we have to lose something else... I don't think that's the right way to think about it.”

Key moments

• **[00:04:22–00:07:57]** Why 65 no longer means "old" — life expectancy has risen from ~70 to ~82, and half of today's 18-year-olds will live to 100.
• **[00:11:48–00:12:39]** Carpenter defines ageism as bidirectional — bias against both old and young people, not just a one-way street.
• **[00:15:15–00:18:32]** Frank discussion of aging and sexuality, including rising STD/HIV rates among older adults due to lack of pregnancy-related caution.
• **[00:22:40–00:26:50]** Carpenter's critique of the rigid education→work→retirement life structure and why it's a social construct, not a natural law.
• **[00:30:13–00:32:38]** Reframing intergenerational resource tension: "old age is the thing we all aspire to" — being biased against old people sets a trap for your future self.
• **[00:32:39–00:36:11]** Vance's personal story of dreading childhood nursing-home visits, contrasted with meeting his 103-year-old mentor Pete later in life.
• **[01:03:48–01:05:47]** Surprising cost fact: staying in your own home with added care services is almost always cheaper than moving into an assisted-living facility.
• **[01:10:09–01:12:26]** Introduction of NORCs (naturally occurring retirement communities) as an organic, community-driven alternative to institutional elder care.
• **[01:16:06–01:19:41]** Carpenter's answer to Vance's "hardest lesson" question: fear of what others think holds people back from taking meaningful risks.

Notable quotes

“Old age is the thing that we all aspire to. We all want to be old someday.”