BJJ, Autism, and Cosplay; Charles Sheeley on overcoming adversity raising & raising an autistic son

Vance Crowe [00:00:02] As the crow flies on the Band's Crow podcast. Charles Sheely, welcome to the podcast.

Charles Sheeley [00:00:11] Yeah, what's up man? Thanks for having me.

Vance Crowe [00:00:13] You're a fascinating character. Last year I went to a Halloween party, and I typically hate Halloween parties 'cause I don't like getting dressed up in costumes. But our shared Jiujitsu coach, Mike Remi, was having a party and you think, well, if Mike Remi can get dressed up and look silly, then so can I. So I show up at this party and there's a guy that shows up dressed as Voldemort with a beautiful woman with him, and I had no idea that it was you. And that's because your ability to create costumes is on the level of being at Hollywood. And I, I was absolutely shocked when I found out, oh my God, it's Charlie from the Jujitsu gym and he also made this amazing costume.

Charles Sheeley [00:01:00] So

Vance Crowe [00:01:01] Who the hell are you? Why in the hell do you know how to make costumes that could be on movie sets right now?

Charles Sheeley [00:01:08] Well, that's a, that's a complicated background. So what's really is just, I love superheroes, man. Like, who doesn't like, I mean that's why Marvel is the, Marvel and DC are some of the biggest grossing films right now, right? Is because everyone can relate to a superhero. But what makes a superhero not someone that wins all time. Someone that has been beaten down to the worst possible scenario and then they just come back. Like they come back better than ever and they grow. So what actually got me going was I, I was always a gamer. I love games 'cause video games mostly multiplayer online. 'cause the scenarios are always different. It's always challenging. You're, I'm dealing with real people instead of AI or whatever. So I wanted to get into game and art design. So I went to school for game and art design, you know, and I, I met my wife and she decided to actually go, 'cause she was a part of a anthropology and she went to do like a, a cultural class and they had to do a study. And so the study on her particular group was science fiction. Right? Now, keep in mind, I've never been to a Comic con before. I have never been in this, what one might consider a nerd environment, which I don't, I I'm, I'm a nerd. You know what? Whatever cool. Call me whatever you want. I don't care. Like

Vance Crowe [00:02:28] Nerd, that can kick most people's ass.

Charles Sheeley [00:02:31] Yeah, that's true. I mean, I, I, I'm okay with that. And that's most, you know, it's like, not everyone, but No, most that's cool. I mean, I'm okay with, you know, being better than the average and that that's all I really want to do. And so what was awesome was when we went to this, it was called Arcon. It's in St. Louis. It's, it's been around since, gosh, I think like over 20 years I'm sure, or something like that. But we went there and it was only for like, for her class. It was actually for a study, right? And so we go there and we're kind of passing, I'm helping her hand out pamphlets, you know, helping my wife out their schoolwork. But I'm like, man, these people are really cool. And to be honest, like my first, I was always a Star Wars fan, but my first introduction to this was when I went and I took my nephew like 15 years ago. It was for a charity, it was called Shoes for Tots. Meaning basically you pay money and you're gonna go watch Star Wars film in a crappy theater. But all the money is for charity. Like the five Oh first is a great, great organization that has raised millions of dollars for charity. It's, it's a great organization for people that are Star Wars fans. 'cause these people make the most amazing, accurate costumes. Like they have really high standards for their costumes. Like movie quality, you don't get in unless it's movie quality, you know? I was like, I don't wanna be in there. But then I asked the guy, I was like, well, how much does this cost? I'm like, keep in mind I'm in my early twenties. And the guy's like, well that's about $2,000. And a lot of time

Vance Crowe [00:04:03] $2,000 to make a costume that you wear to a movie,

Charles Sheeley [00:04:06] Right? Right. And I'm like, two grand dudes. Like, I no, like not in the options. So I, I took my three E model schools. I, I learned from schooling for game and art design. And then I started learning this program called ura, which is a program that takes your 3D model. 'cause all three e models are just squares and triangle. Like, I mean, granted now you're talking about millions of them, but when you break it down, they, they get lower resolution. And so it's kind of like looking at a TV that's like, you know, 120 5K versus 4K or whatever, like higher resolution, more detail. You get the same thing with 3D modeling. So whenever video games were out at that time, they were really a little polygon. And I discovered, you know, because, well, I wanted to make this costume, so I figured out every way I could. So at the time it was printing out in paper and this pepper kura design would actually allow me to, to bend it. So if it was a do dot, that meant it was like a mountain fold. Now it was a dot dash dot that meant it was a valley fold. So it was like putting together a 3D puzzle. So I would print it on card stock and then I would glue it together. Now I'd cover it with fiberglass resin. And now I would put bond to it, and now I would sand and smooth it out. And then it, I created this, like, this arc, you know, it was like, wow, this is awesome. And so I, it evolved through printing started coming around.

Charles Sheeley [00:05:39] I, I got involved, like, granted you can get a decent three printout for like 500 bucks, but back in the day it was like two grand, you know? So I, I was really invested because I was having a lot of fun with this. And then some guy hit me up and was like, Hey, can you make this red hood character helmet? And I comic book, I'm like, who's red? Her like, I have no idea who he is. I'm like, what? You know, it was like, I don't know. I was like, I'm not that huge of a comic nerd. But then I started to discover this retro character was like the Crow, because I'm a big Bruce Lee fan. So, you know, of course I'm falling the lineage, you know, Brandon Lee the Crow. So I'm, I'm a huge fan boy fan. And then I started actually looking at this character and he is basically like a crow. So he is like an evil vigilante. So Red Hood is this. So Batman has Robins. He's had like, you watch the show, oh my gosh, it's on the DC streaming, it's called, I'm sorry, I'm actually lacking the memory of the term of the,

Vance Crowe [00:06:40] Well like, so you're talking about comic book characters that are way off the beaten path, right? Like, I know about superheroes that are like Superman, Batman, I know about Spider-Man. But when you start getting off of the, the main road of what is Yeah, movies. Yeah. Then I have no idea about these characters. So somebody showed up and was like, Hey man, can you make me this helmet of this guy that you've never heard of? You go and you look it up and you discover there is this huge lineage of, of like character development and ideas and things like that in the character. And now you're presented with, can I make this, this helmet?

Charles Sheeley [00:07:19] Right? And that was actually the thing is that a as, so I, I believe especially through jiujitsu, whatever, whatever realm you wanna go through, right? Desperation creates creativity. I mean, to be honest, just like what's happening now, everyone with this COVID thing, right? Everyone's freaking out. I'm not because I see a problem and I'm gonna fix it. And that's what this was. It was like, this guy gave me this, it only exists in comic books at the time. It's actually in the injustice games now. Redwood is, but it was just this art. And I, I actually researched it. I was like, I can relate this. I like, I love this character, this guy's awesome. So yeah, I, I wanna do this project. You know, it's like I get offered all the time on like, can you make this, can you, I'm like, yeah, but it's you. It's gonna take me a year to get to it. You know this because I, I mean, I'm realistic. I don't just, you know, take people's money or it's like if I, if I'm not passionate, I'm not gonna do it because it's,

Vance Crowe [00:08:22] So when you made this first helmet, this guy did, did you, was it successful? Were you good at it? Was he happy with the thing you made?

Charles Sheeley [00:08:29] This was the first custom thing I made, and it was pretty successful. And I started seeing that people were liking it. They wanted to buy it. I made the molds. I learned how to make my own silicone molds. I, I was looking up everything I could on it. And then, I mean, I was just thinking this was a project was gonna pay for itself because like, I never viewed it as a, as a money making opportunity, right? It was like, this is cool, I want to make it. 'cause he, I got the attention because I made a, I don't know, I think it's from Ironman two, where he had all those different Ironman suits and one of 'em was called Shotgun. And I was a huge fan of Ironman. And I was like, I wanna make it Ironman suit that no one's made. It was called shotgun. It was basically the Tony Stark Ironman suit that was built specifically to go at mock speeds. So it was aerodynamic. And so I wanna be the first person to make it. And so I started 3D modeling it, and then I made the helmet. And then I, I went to my Arcon is the name of the St. Louis ComicCon is awesome. I suggest anyone that's interesting, ComicCon go to that. It's a good one. And so then I showed up there and people are like, wow, has that made a middle? And my like, now she's helping me guide me. 'cause I'm looking through this slit, you know, I mean like, like all I see, I, I can't see below me or anything. So

Vance Crowe [00:09:53] You wore it to this, to this event? Yeah. So you wear, you make this new costume that nobody's ever, nobody's ever made before. Oh, and then you wear it to this, this event that you had gone to a couple years before,

Charles Sheeley [00:10:03] Right? Yeah, it was super cool, man. 'cause everyone like, even people are like, is that actually made it a medal? And I'm like, to me, 'cause every artist is their own critic, right? And I'm like, it looks like crap. Actually, when my wife's helping me in it, she's like, I'm like, well, how does it look? She's like, well, it doesn't suck. And I'm like, oh great. You know? But so it it, it wasn't like I had anything writing on it though, man. It was just have fun. And so that's what I did. And we went and people were like, is that actually made out? And I'm like, this is made outta foam dude. Like this is, it's like the five oh first wouldn't accept this, you know, because they didn't accept anything. That wasn't what was made in the movies. So that was always my goal was to have this hardcore like, like what I really wanted to do was what they were doing. So when I saw my nephew, because I took him to this event, when I saw my nephew's eyes light up when this bub effect character ship, Mike, my nephew believed because Darth Bear was walking, there was bub a fe and then there was also, you know, storm troopers behind him. My nephew was like, like, you know what I mean? Like the kid man, like the kid in me came out and it's like, man, you know, this, this kid is like, I, I want, I wanna inspire that. Like, that's amazing. And so when I found out the charity they did and everything else like that, I just, I just wanted do that. But I couldn't afford the costumes, so I was like, I guess I gotta make it myself. And then boom.

Vance Crowe [00:11:34] And so how much did your, then, did you develop develop that into a business? Is that, is that a revenue stream for you?

Charles Sheeley [00:11:40] It did, it, it, it happened. I, I didn't plan it. It just, it just kind of happened that way. Like I was just out there to have fun and I was like, well, this is cool. Like, I can't buy it at the price I could afford. So I just had to make it. And then people started liking what I was making and then they're like, Hey, do you make copies? And so, well, I had to figure out how to make copies. And so it was, it was supporting my, my hobby, but it wasn't like, I never viewed it at the time. I never viewed it as like a income, you know? So that was, it would, I would say it paid for my fund. So I mean, if you would consider that income, then you, that's what I did do.

Vance Crowe [00:12:20] I mean, I think that the, that's like the first step towards doing anything is figuring out, can I be passionate about this? Do I do I love this? And there may be aspects of it that you don't love, but if there's something that pulls you through to the other side, like the look on your nephew's face when he is watching the superheroes that he loves and cares about, and you have developed something that, that generates, that look in his, in his eye. Like if you can find a way to get that paid for by the work that you're doing, that's the first, that's the first big step,

Charles Sheeley [00:12:52] Right? And actually, I, I mean, I think that's the core of any successful person. I mean, to be honest, like there's, you have to enjoy the suffering. You have to enjoy the problem solving. You have to enjoy the grit. Like, you have to enjoy the, the continuing learning, like the failures. You, like there was a good quote from like Will Smith, which was a fail forward. You know, it's like, you know, you have to look at everything objectively. And for me it's like, I remember me and my wife were getting out con and something broke and we're freaking out, but then all of a sudden it's like, I can fix that. You know, I, I just went after, it's like, I didn't know for sure I could, but I just believed I could. And so I'm like, okay, because it, it's all based off of reason. Like I've seen other people do it so I I can do it. So it's objective reasoning, meaning I, I saw a path and it wasn't an impossible path, right? Like I didn't just will it like, you know, people can will and wish all day long that they want to fly by jumping off the ground like Superman. But you have to have an objective truth of that, which is you have to calculate, is it, how successful can it be and how much are you willing to sacrifice? And I think people that are truly passionate about martial arts, whatever it is you want to do, whether it's, you know, you want to have a high income or you want whatever it is, you have to enjoy the failure.

Vance Crowe [00:14:27] You know, I think one of the biggest changes in my life happened, you know, maybe my late twenties or early thirties was when I realized that if you are going to ever make sacrifices that are worth anything, you have to want something. And it is okay to want something. The, the, the thing that gets you in trouble is if you're like, I don't wanna choose what I want because I may not get it. And so therefore I'm just gonna kind of have, I'm gonna look at what other people want or what other people think is cool or what other people think is good enough. And that's gonna be what, what my life is all about. But when I started to realize is there's a danger to wanting things because when you decide that you want something, now you have to make sacrifices. Because if wanting it was enough, it wouldn't be valuable. But if you find something you want bad enough, now you're like, oh, I gotta make those sacrifices. And those sacrifices are suffering until you find a way to incorporate it and it's, and it's not suffering.

Charles Sheeley [00:15:26] Right? Actually there's a good quote from Bruce Lee is like, one thing is not enough. You have to will it So that, I mean, it's not just as easy as will it, you have to see a path for success. Like, you know, like I don't, like if I look at something and there's a hundred percent brick wall, then, then I do kind of give up because I don't see light at the end of the tunnel. But if you see light, you see even just a glimmer of someone else's success and you kind of follow that same path, then I, and you know what I mean, it's kind of like that. Like, but I also believe that desperation creates creativity. So that's like why I don't like to do an art project that's just solely based on I need a time limit. Because that, that creates the innovation. That that is the, the building blocks of success is you have to create your solution. It's kind of like you,

Vance Crowe [00:16:24] You've said something twice that I think is interesting, which is desperation causes these things to happen. The only way you use that word desperation is if you've been there. Yeah. So when you look back on desperation, what are, what are the things that you're saying, Hey, I was desperate at this moment and it forced me to, to change in some other way?

Charles Sheeley [00:16:44] Well, I would go back to childhood. So my parents met in a martial arts gym. So one of my upbringing was actually watching Bruce Lee films in Conan. So I was like, probably not the most PC version of upbringing, right? But that's okay. And then my parents got divorced and then, so my reality was broken. And then, so, but after looking back at things, my mom worked as a secretary at SIU Carbondale and then she also had a second job. And then during Christmas time, she took on a job at Kmart at the time. So she was a very hardcore lady about keeping her, like basically being the caregiver. I mean, my mom is a warrior, period. She, she actually got a her belt judo. And so actually my example of success came from my mom because she was in the worst possible scenario. Like, I mean this is actually why I relate everything to is like, do I blame, do or am I gonna play the victim? Just like, well your jitsu's better and I just give up, you know, I, or or you pass my guard or you hit me, or, or whatever scenario you want to use, right? Is it's, do I blame you for that? Or do I accept that my guard retention sucks and I have to fix it?

Vance Crowe [00:18:13] Yeah. There's something to that objective reality, you, you've called it that is, is like, there's nothing about like when two people come together for juujitsu, right? They've decided we are going to both agree to exert as much of our will on the other person as we possibly can. And if I can't exert my will over you, it's not your fault, it's mine. Because I have not figured out how to do leverage and physics and use my weight and my strength. I have instead allowed you to outthink me out, have cardio over me, and that's all on me, right? 'cause everything is under my control. I can't control what you do.

Charles Sheeley [00:18:50] Right? And there's, there's so many things you can't control. Weight, cardio, athleticism, I mean even especially when, if you, I'm, I'm gonna not spend too much time here, but like different body types will decide. And that's what objective truth is. Your body type will decide what your ju style is. Not you, you mean You can have, like me, I got short legs, I love spider guard. I think it's really cool. But guess what I got short. Like I am five foot eight and now I know this specifically from my costume design is I'm five foot eight. I have the torso of six foot and I have the legs of somebody five foot four. So, so I am not as proportionate as you should be. Like every single, like from an artist perspective, your head come here and then two heads. That is actually the proportion of human beings. But my proportion is different. My wife who has discovered that she has spider guard potential long legs. 'cause her hips are like, you know, like a, a at least that much higher than mine. So her juujitsu will be different, but I still understand it. 'cause you have to, you have to understand your environment before you can conquer it.

Vance Crowe [00:20:05] What is spider guard? You've mentioned this.

Charles Sheeley [00:20:08] Oh, so spider guard is whenever I, you know, it's mostly in a gi but it can be in nogi to a certain degree, which is I grab your wrist or your sleeves and I put my feet inside your biceps, right? So now the feet is kind of controlling like a puppet, like north south. So if she leans me this way and then, and as soon as she gets my elbow past my spine, I'm off balance. And then over takes me and long legged people, people long legs or athletic legs will be very good at triangles. They'll be very good at spider guard because it, it plays to their physical abilities. And that's what objective truth is. It's like juujitsu will make you look at yourself and be like, well why, why can't I do this technique? Well maybe because you're slightly overweight and it's hard for you to breathe. So now you're gonna reflect on that and be like, well maybe I can lose some weight and maybe I need to fix this. You know what I mean? And then, and then, so jujitsu is this pattern of constant testing the truth. And so then you go out there and you'll eventually grow and figure out. And that's why I believe jiujitsu is like a fingerprint for people. You will, you'll develop just like articulating the world, right? How do people articulate the world? Well I'll ask you, how do you articulate the world? How do you have your perspective and why?

Vance Crowe [00:21:32] Well, the the only way that I have my perspective is that I test things, right? So I I am always approaching people I don't know. I'm asking them what they think. I'm taking my ideas and I'm presenting it to them. And I'm, I'm actually not hoping to best people in an argument. When I was younger I used to just love winning arguments. But now I realize the best situation is for me to find an argument that I have that actually fails when it's tested is why this podcast is awesome.

Charles Sheeley [00:21:59] Yes, no, I agree. And actually that's why, I mean I listened to your podcast with coach with Morgan and Luke and others. And I was also congrats on getting interview Jordan Peterson, one of my personal heroes. Awesome. And that was amazing. And so it's like, you know, I that's what it is and that's why perspective is important. So I have a son that's on the spectrum and he you

Vance Crowe [00:22:23] Mean the autism spectrum?

Charles Sheeley [00:22:24] Yes, yes. And he actually, it's, he's his IQs not low man. And there's, there's perspective and you have to understand that difference, just like teaching a white belt, right? Like I would love to show all my students, 'cause most of 'em are white belts because I opened my gym almost a year ago, right? And all of them are still white belts because you have to allow them to test it and fail. And that's objective truth. I mean that's how everyone articulates the world. Kind of like a, a bully. You know? Like for the most part, every single bully kind of had a mother that wasn't very strict. So, because if he just pushed enough, his mom gave in, so then that creates bully tendencies. So now he's pulling people at school, on the playground, whatever. I don't wanna go too deep into psychology 'cause I'm no expert at all. But that creates certain aspects. Just like me working in a, so I am a salary person at a corporate job, to be honest. People that get higher up aren't honest, you know, they're fake. And actually I despise that. I don't, I don't like fake people. I, I enjoy honest, objective truth people and that's why I mostly relate to jiu-jitsu people. And, but that's what I mean is, but, but I understand them. I don't hate them necessarily. Right. I just don't choose to associate with them. 'cause I understand that's how they articulate the world.

Charles Sheeley [00:23:56] Hey, if I'm really nice to this guy then I'll get promoted. Like it makes sense that that's how you test your world and that's how you, how you see it. And that's fine. That's just not my perspective.

Vance Crowe [00:24:10] Yeah. The challenge with living in a world that doesn't get tested is just like the bully goes around and, and can beat a hundred little kids up, but eventually he runs into a, a ground truth that isn't that the strongest, most aggressive wins. He finds somebody that pums him. Right? And because he went so headlong into it, you get into trouble. You know, coach, when I had him on, he had something that was very interesting when he was describing the various belts and he said, you're a white belt until you can defend yourself against most people, right? So if you come up against somebody that's untrained, you are going to win. Which is why he is so reluctant to hand out blue belts, right? He wants those people to know every aspect about it to be able to defend themselves before he hands them that blue belt. 'cause if you give somebody the idea that they are further along the path than they really are, that's when you go out into the world and get in trouble.

Charles Sheeley [00:25:05] Right? You see, and to be honest, like, just so you understand, the difference of blue belt is in my opinion, one of the most important belts because it, it's actually in my opinion, right, is that is a black belt in every other martial art a blue belt is that in Brazil jujitsu and every martial art is when, because you do karate or TaeKwonDo, you could mo according to most gyms, get your black belt in two years. I mean, there's nine year olds with black belts, right? So I mean there is this, but that's why I love coach. 'cause he is this honestly like modern day samurai. I mean I love coach. I I I appreciate everything he does and it's, that's why I clinging to him Morgan and all the other guys I train with. 'cause we've been through the grit. We, we constantly challenge each other and it's always this, this growth. We learn from it. We don't get butt hurt. So here's, here's actually what I think is the problem that most people is they don't have grit. They don't, they they see it. It's hard and they quit. Well. That, that's no good. I mean, if you're gonna be good at anything, you can't quit. Now, it's not to say, like I was saying earlier, I, I wish I can just jump and fly like Superman. You can't just will it. Or I heard a TED talk where they said like, oh, I'll fake it till it's real. I'm like, there's certain things you really can't, like no chin knockouts, you know, you've seen all that.

Charles Sheeley [00:26:36] In fact, I actually did, before I got into Brazilian jitsu, I could break coconut in my bare hand YouTube, iron palm coconut break. I posted 11 years ago and I'm like, you know, third on the research from that. And it's like, that's cool, but can you get there? And so that was one of my motivations for Brazilian juice. I was like, I need to get to mount so I can, you know, end it. And so, and to be honest, like I was just always fascinated with the art of martial arts. You know, a lot of people that, the majority of people that come to jiujitsu or self defense or whatever, and I've heard this across the board, was, I'm just gonna simplify it because it, it's ultimately true in this simple fact is everyone got in this situation where they were conflicted with another human being. And that other human being said, what are you gonna do about it? Okay. So what Juju has done for me was in any scenario, it doesn't matter what the scenario is, is when it comes to that, my know, when we know. And so that has given me peace. I had to become the line in order to become the land. You know what I mean? It's like I I like, I love Jordan Pearson's quote, which is, if you're harmless, you're not peaceful, you're just, you're just harmless.

Vance Crowe [00:27:53] Yeah, that's right. A rabbit isn't virtuous because it runs away, it doesn't have an option to stay and fight. And so the, he always talks about the meek will inherit the earth and the meek doesn't mean that you are not willing to fight. It's a meek actually should translate to the people that have swords but decide to keep them sheathed. Right? Exactly. That's actual power.

Charles Sheeley [00:28:13] Yeah, it is. I mean that is that I am actually peaceful because I have decided to be that way. And, you know, everyone that's within reason can reflect and be like, you know, I was, I I, what I did was wrong. And it's only like nurses that believe that they're always right and everyone should follow suit and there's a lot of 'em out there. But it is about perspective and perspective is is a huge thing. Like I said, my son being autism, I, I had to really reflect on a lot of things. And it, it is not that the boy, actually, one of the videos that I saw that blew my mind, there was this girl that was actually, they, they put her at like severe autism. She couldn't communicate. She would bang her head on the floor. She would smear feces on the wall, like horrible things. Every single psychologist they said would be like, well this, she's not gonna develop past the IQ of like an 8-year-old. Like, you're basically gonna be dealing with an adult 8-year-old and they have a lot of power. So, and emotions run strong. But what happened was she was watching her dad type and she actually started typing help hurt. And then they figured out they could, she could communicate this way. And so then she learned how to type and then she sounds like a normal teenager.

Vance Crowe [00:29:38] Wow. She had been locked in.

Charles Sheeley [00:29:40] Right. And that's the thing. It is communication, it is perspective. Like, so this girl may asked her, and, and this, this is really relative to people that have oversensitive and what was it, sorry, I'm missing the technical term. But she, they asked her why she banged her head on the floor and she said, well, if I don't, it hurts. It's kind of like people's twitches or nervous twitches, fidgeting of spinners, whatever. It's like this calms you down. Well, banging her head just kind of relieve the pain because it's a different perspective. They're, their wiring is different. So you have to Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:30:22] I, I mean I can relate to that, right? Like, we do things in our life in order to stop the short term thing. And particularly if you are completely isolated and you can't discuss it. So I, one time was in Africa and I had an allergy and I broke out from head to toe. And the hardest part about this breakout, it turns out I was allergic to mangoes. But I didn't know at the time that's what it was. It was like eating poison ivy. So I was broken out everywhere, right? And when I was conscious when I was awake, I could say, don't scratch yourself because that's gonna hurt you. You're gonna bleed. But I would go to sleep and I would, you know, unconsciously do all these things to my body because I couldn't fast forward into the future and say, Hey, you're gonna wake up and you're gonna be bloody. And so if you have this child that has been kept away from being able to explain or think through their ideas, they are only captured in that one moment. There's no way for them to think about or talk about or project out into the future. They're just dealing with what is right now,

Charles Sheeley [00:31:23] Right? And then now you're emotion based, right? And that's why they lash out. That's why they, they have all these problems. And so I have really grown because of that. And I understand, especially with the whole COVID thing, man, that it's so crazy out there. Like it's, I know my mom's 78 years old and smokes, so I can't get her, I, I can't be responsible for, for catching that, right? So I'm safer than most and I get majority of people, Hey man, go do whatever you gotta do, but I'm gonna be safer. And that's cool. It's like, I believe everyone should have the free will to do whatever they want. And it's, it's just that I get the, the fear and I get the over paranoia. But I also get that, you know, it, it it, it's a perspective thing, man. Like, you have to understand that some people aren't as experienced as you just like a white belt. So teaching and opening up a gym has really helped me a lot because it's taught me just like my wife being very successful in used to being Mike Meyer's, first four stripe blue belt is awesome like that, that's an honor. You know what I mean? It's like when Mike, like, like when he was saying when he gives his self promotions, man, that means something like that, that's a lineage you have to live up to. And I respect the hell outta that because that's, that means a lot. So

Vance Crowe [00:32:50] I don't think there's very many things in people's lives right now where they are a part of a lineage of a legacy, right? You know, like I, I, I, so, so Mike's gym, the BJJ Lifestyle Academy, it's a long way away from me. It's like 30 minutes to get there, 30 minutes to get back. You do two hours of classes. That's a lot of time, right? But I think about like, well I could save a bunch of time and go to a different gym. But then you're cut out of that lineage, you're cut out of the, the fact that there are very few people that carry this knowledge. The only way to pass it forward is by, by like the same way that you do steel, right? You heat it up, you pound on it, then you put it back in. And there are other places, I'm sure they're perfectly fine at teaching, but you're a hundred percent right. That lineage, that thing that you're a part of means that if you have a blue belt, you have a blue belt that dates back a long, long time, goes all the way to Brazil, back to Japan, like it's a long, deep thing,

Charles Sheeley [00:33:46] Right? And that, that's important. You see that that is only driven by people that are passionate about it. Like people that aren't passionate about, they wanna learn stuff. You know? So that's kind of the difference there, there is a difference. Like, just like you, you know, I, I drive 45 minutes to get there and I actually maybe some days get only five hours of sleep and I go in train because that's how important it's to me, I'm passionate. So I, I make the sacrifice and there's like, how bad do you want it? Like if I wanted to kind of just do, so what happened with the business on the side, the ruthless effects thing was, it was going great, man. I got on, you know, the sci-fi whereas New York City Comic Con I was being interviewed, it was great. Amazon people were hitting me up. So then I started, I contacted DC and then I, I hit this big huge brick wall of, I don't own a factory in China. It won't make me money. Like I, that was,

Vance Crowe [00:34:42] 'cause you can't get to economies of scale, you mean,

Charles Sheeley [00:34:44] Right? Like, I don't have a million dollars to invest in a factory. I I didn't have all this ability, even though I can kind of, you know, if, if you're not really making that much money, they don't really pay attention to what you're doing as far as copyright goes. But when I looked into the licensing and everything, I, I did hit this big huge brick wall because I was looking into making my own little factory in my own yard, building a pole barn, a roto casting machines. I calculated all the, all the silicone that would go into it, all the resin, the man hours. Like I actually really broke it down. But then when I was talking to the sea people, they're like, well, we're gonna get 50% of the retail. And I'm like, well, you know, the only way I can even put value then I would have to limit how many helmets I sell. And then, 'cause then it would be a collector's item. And so when you act, you know, the, the fact is, is that I, I can't compete and so that's okay. And I was like, oh man, I'll just make what I want and make copies and it'll be fun. And so, but then also at the same time is when there was an opportunity. 'cause I was calculating opening up my own gym for a while and 'cause I do love what Gigi does, it gives people peace. You know, that was one thing someone asked me that was very important, and I heard this term before, was like I said earlier, when people ask why did you start learning YouTube? And most people are like, well, someone kind of came at me and they're like, what are you gonna do about it? Well, I want to give people that freedom.

Charles Sheeley [00:36:15] And I think when you give people freedom, they, they act more like them and they are better people. You get people based on fear, they act really horribly. I I think they act emotionally, they don't act logically. But when you give them the freedom to be without fear, they become better people. So that's why I was like, well, you know, I wanna share this knowledge and let's, let's smart, you know, entrepreneur wise, like let's go about this smart and make the gym and make it as best as I could. And to be honest, man, it blew up. Like I was, it was 'cause I'm passionate about it. So is my wife, like we live it and she's a coach equal to me pretty much, right? I mean, granted, my, my jujitsu knowledge goes better, but look at her. She just got gold at IBGF Kansas City. I mean she beat one of the, like this girl that she beat her first got bronze at the worlds, which is like the, one of the biggest Brazil biggest Brazilian jit competition you can go to. And it is this objective truth that, you know, it works.

Vance Crowe [00:37:28] It's an amazing thing. Like when you first, so when I first joined the Jiujitsu gym, I had probably five classes or so five sessions before I ever encountered a woman at one of these things. And like at first it was deeply uncomfortable for me because it's like, hey, I'm married, I'm rolling around. Like you, when you're, when you're rolling with somebody, you're gonna touch their breasts. You're gonna put your arm in between their legs, you're gonna do all these things that our entire society has told us not to do. And so at first you're like, man, I wish these women just wouldn't be here. So we just go with the guys and just do what we want. But then what you realize is when you start rolling with a woman that has even a modicum more experienced than you, if you limit your ability to beat them based on just your raw strength, right? Like I can pick this person up and throw them and now you have to like outthink them and you start saying like, I'm going to do these other things. You start realizing like, this person that I'm rolling with was not, was not empowered to out muscle anybody. So they've had to outthink everyone. And so they know these moves so much better than the bohemoth guy that I just got done rolling with and the other guy that can bench 200 pounds. And so what you realize is, if I just cut that thing out, because it's a little bit awkward for me 'cause I don't wanna roll around with women, you miss the fact that there is a sophistication and a complexity to the way a woman rolls that you can learn a lot from,

Charles Sheeley [00:39:00] Right? Actually there's a term, it's called pull guard like a girl and it's, it, it's actually, well women's, most of their weight comes in their hips, right? So 'cause we're up, men are mostly, upper body is where most of our weight technically is to a certain degree putting on your body type. But what what's amazing is, is all the ways of thing like society, social structures, whatever you wanna call it, right? When someone's about to break your arm, you don't give a crap what sex they are. It's like, all I care about is you're not breaking my arm. You know what I mean? And then that's the raw truth of jujitsu is guess what? Like it's all fun and games till you're in trouble, just like everything. And so you kind of do whatever you gotta do, but it doesn't change the fact that you just got caught. You can put up any excuse you want. Well, as she was a girl, I didn't treat her that way, but whatever dude. Like maybe, maybe don't treat her like a girl and see what happens.

Vance Crowe [00:40:00] Yeah, that's that's exactly right. And you know what, any of the women that have been around more than two or three classes have decided I'm gonna get my ass kicked and I don't care. And so like you're talking about a person that they're saying like, Hey, don't, don't treat me brutally, but like as long as you are playing anywhere near the, the realm of fair, which is use what you have, they use what they have, you're gonna find sometimes where you think you should be able to beat a girl and she whips your ass,

Charles Sheeley [00:40:27] Actually. And I would say I've been like, and I've seen this 'cause I, I I, I kind of learned, you know, from like 10 years ago when it was still wasn't mainstream or anything, it was, there was one girl there that, hey, I remember the instructor being like, well, you would actually stick the girl in the biggest, you know, worried it out, dude coming in like, oh, I'm the best dude at the barbecue. And then this 110 pound girl kicks their butt. And to be honest, like I said, once you're in danger, like I said, you can get all the excuses you want for the beginning, but your muscle and strength will only take you so far and it will put you in good. Now once people that are bigger and stronger learn you to, and they understand the fundamentals, then it, then that's why there's weight classes there, there's these different things. But if you're ignorant, and that's why I say like, I'm 90% sure my will be enforced that you don't know jiujitsu. I, I, I, I'm not so arrogant. I'm like, I'll defeat anyone that that's ego. I I I'm an objective truth person and Rock Ner would probably submit me, you know what I mean? It's like you have to understand like your ego gets in the way of a lot, especially like in MMA now you see people where they're like, especially Tony Ferguson dude's an amazing grappler didn't attempt more than one take down. And it was a super lazy m and r role after he is had a concussion. You know? And not thinking straight, but the reality is, is like, look at U ffc one man, one 70 pound hoist, gra

Vance Crowe [00:42:04] Voice crazy, just out there annihilating people. It

Charles Sheeley [00:42:08] Doesn't matter to sex or anything. It, it was pure physics of understanding juujitsu, understanding the objective.

Vance Crowe [00:42:15] So Coronavirus has made it so nobody's doing juujitsu right now, or very few people, if they are, they're doing it in, in basements and nobody's talking about it. But what, what has that been like for you to go for years of doing Jiujitsu to now not doing Jiujitsu?

Charles Sheeley [00:42:29] Well, I'm lucky my wife, she's a practitioner, but you know, it was like actually when it, when it first started, my company is kind of an essential company. So for me it's not really that much different other than I don't get to train like what I was like six days a week at least, and at least an hour of grind and grit and rolling and split and everything. I did have a, i I did treat it like a vacation. I'm like, okay. And I, and you know, I got a little lazy sure. Like, you know, like it was, like I said, they're stealing my vacation time, so I'm gonna treat like a vacation, right? And then, but then me and my wife were actually kind of noticing this moment where like, you know, we need this, like, there was a certain, certain type of satisfaction that comes from that pure exhaustion that pure pushing yourself to the breaking point. Like not just, you know, I'm tired, I'm gonna quit. No, you gotta push it till you can't stand up so you can't hardly breathe.

Vance Crowe [00:43:27] It has cost me in so many creative ideas. I, I, I think like the hardest thing and probably the deepest lesson that I've learned from this is without that absolute burn down exhaustion that you get from Juujitsu, where like you, the only thing you can focus on is try to not get choked. Okay? I don't have access to these ideas that are deep in my mind. Right? I the only other way to do it is to run five miles. And even that isn't the same level of clarity. So you go to do this juujitsu and you're driving home and you're tired and you're eating your banana or your protein bar or whatever, and these ideas just start floating through your brain, right? And I don't get any of that. So one of the biggest costs of this, of this coronavirus has been, I'm missing out on a major part of my ability to come up with new ideas, right?

Charles Sheeley [00:44:18] And actually, you kind of hit on the nail, right? Like I said earlier, especially with artists or whatever, desperation creates creativity. So you already said it right there. It's like, there's nothing, nothing like you pushing yourself to the point of exhaustion, unlike someone else trying to choke you unconscious. So that, that pushes you. Like you need that. And that's what a good coach is. A good coach isn't someone that, you know, passing them that says good game. You know, after you got your butt kicked, a good coach is gonna tell you what you really don't wanna hear the, the objective truth to make you a better person. And that,

Vance Crowe [00:44:56] Yeah. You know, it's naval, who's this guy on Twitter? He is interesting philosopher. He had a quote that I probably won't get quite right, but he basically was like, when someone says something that hurts you look for the truth in it. When somebody says something that makes you feel good, look for the lie in it, right? Because it's, and like both of those things you, you could make it into like, okay, then you're always suspicious of people. But if you get yourself hurt, like when my wife tells me something that hurts my feelings, I'm always like, all right, why is this hurting my feelings? What part of my ego am I going out of my way to protect? Because my wife has nothing but good intentions for me. So she tells me something that hurts my feelings, or coach tells me something that hurts my feelings. What's the part that I'm being like, I don't wanna deal with that because it's too hard. 'cause that's exactly where you gotta go.

Charles Sheeley [00:45:41] Yeah. And that, that's so true and that's so true. And everything actually, whenever I was working on a, well, some new Star Wars helmet, I can't remember which one it was, but some guy actually critiqued my model, my 3D model because I, I do very accurate renderings. And he made a comment about an inaccuracy and I'm like, you know what? You're right. I'll, I'll fix that. And he is like, dude, like you're the only person I've ever made a comment on. You actually agree to it. I'm like, well, it's true. So, you know, you can't be but hurt by no, it's gonna but hurt you essentially. And you have to understand you're human and you're emotional. So you have to, you have to allow some, some time. So when someone says, gimme time, you, you really should. Like, that was something I had to learn. 'cause it was a, it was a thing and it was like, I, I always, I like to problem solve, which is a big way of thinking of me, right? So I know it's to me only, and when someone isn't quite catching up, I still, I keep pushing and sometimes that turns into a negative thing. So you have to realize when you're pushing too much, you know what I mean? And you have to,

Vance Crowe [00:46:51] Yeah, I think that's true. It was easier for me to see with new coaches that they have so much that they want to give, that they often forget. Like, how much can a student drink? You know, how, how much can they possibly take in from what you're saying? Because you hit a point where their saturation goes from, hey, like he's trying to help me to, I feel like I'm being held under water here. There's too much for me to think of. And in my world where I'm helping people learn how to be a better speaker or to be less afraid of saying what they really think, I have to have that same patience too, right? I can give people all the instructions I want, but the only instructions that matter are the ones that they can take on practice, do something about, and then, and then, then they can incorporate more. But I think new coaches have so much that they wanna deliver because they're like, I don't want you to suffer the same pain that I went through. I can help you speed this up by giving you more. And like really there's an, there's an upper maximum on how much people can learn at any given time,

Charles Sheeley [00:47:48] Right? It's like you're a black belt in that area, so you understand that there's, you have to fail and fail forward. And then that's kind of like what I like about it, it's like, you know, they're a good quote because I'm only use another Bruce Lee one, which is I don't figure a man that knows 5,000 kicks. I fear the man that practiced one kick 5,000 times. And there's a lot of truth to that. Just like I see sometimes not names, but I had one of these students and you know, they weren't doing the drills. And I just go, I'm like, well, maybe you know, you know this drill so well, why don't you show it to me? And it was subtle off. I'm like, man, this is why you gotta drill it because you're, you're doing it wrong and you don't realize you're doing it wrong. And that is perspective. Everyone thinks that's why learning off videos, when it comes to a, you need someone else looking at you, you need a different perspective than your own.

Vance Crowe [00:48:46] Oh, a hundred percent. That's why you can't teach it to yourself. It's my, so my wife is a physical therapist and during Coronavirus she started having people record videos of them running. Now these are people that run a thousand or 2000 miles in a given year, some of them way less, right? They're just getting started, but they, so they know their own body's running. But it isn't until they can have an expert watch like, Hey, your hips are dropping every time you run. Or you're not holding your abs or you're not doing these things without it. You can't, you don't even know that there is something to know. You just think like, Hey, my back hurts. I don't, it's, it's 'cause I'm, you know, must be doing something wrong in some other part of my life. And that's what coaching is. It's somebody that can objectively look at you and, and pull out the part that you could change and, and feed that to you in a way that you can do it.

Charles Sheeley [00:49:34] Right. And that, that's a good coach, man. And that, that's objective reasoning, which is, 'cause you know, no one believes they're evil. I mean, no one, everyone justifies everything they do. 100%. There is not a single bad guy in the world. Which is what I liked about Red Hood was, you know, and if you look at someone's perspective, their environment, the way they're bringing in everything was like, yeah. You know, and they were justified in their thinking. But it's not, yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:50:03] I mean like, if you ever watch a movie, if the villain is just pure evil, if they're just like, Hey, they're bad and twirling their mustache because they like doing bad things, nobody cares about that movie or that story. What

Charles Sheeley [00:50:15] We care

Vance Crowe [00:50:16] About are the villains that think that they're doing right. But they've just gone too far. It's somebody that has like, you know, this terrible problem and I need to wipe out all of those people in order that the new good thing can, can come in. I mean like the, the Batman example over and over again is that these, these villains are oftentimes trying to prove something in order that a new thing can grow up and they don't view themselves as evil. Because if you have a purely evil villain, they're not, there's nothing to learn there from them. Right?

Charles Sheeley [00:50:48] Not, and it's not relatable. And, and that's actually what I think why the Joker was so good. I don't know if you saw the Joker movie.

Vance Crowe [00:50:56] Oh, I did. Oh, the, no, not, not, I haven't Uhuh

Charles Sheeley [00:50:58] No, no, you need to watch that because it's, it, it is a way of like every single, like you said, successful story is one that can draw you into that. And that's this. It's, and that's what I just do. And what I think has made me successful is I, I pick and choose what to do. If I had the luxury of like, I work a job I hate, I mean, I was like, I really, I work midnights man. I, IIII work a horrible shift that most people quit. It's like, but this fuels my happiness, this fuels my, well, it fuels my family prosperity and it basically secures all my fundamentals and it gives me some freedom to do what I need to do. And that, and that's great. So I actually think that most people quit because it's hard. Life is hard. You know what, as an infant, walking is hard. Everything is hard at first. I don't care what it is. Drawing, walking, running, mountain climbing, jujitsu, TaeKwonDo, roddy, boxing, MMA, blah, blah, blah. Doesn't matter what it is. Everything's hard at first. And it's only through failure. Just like if you watch a toddler, right? They stand up face plant like you're like, oh my gosh. And you freak out. But they're like, man, they just sit back up and try it again. They just keep falling. And so then they figure out walking is the art of not falling.

Charles Sheeley [00:52:30] So that's, that's life. Life is like the art of not falling

Vance Crowe [00:52:37] Well, and I know the trap that I started falling into with Coronavirus was I got into the mindset of like, not that we're on vacation, 'cause I kept up with my routines, but some of those routines weren't that hard or they weren't as full. And then you start thinking, oh, the thing that I'm suffering through is getting through coronavirus. 'cause we're not allowed to go out. And then you realize, Uhuh, that's like choosing, I want life in general to be suffering as opposed to I'm suffering because I'm trying to get somewhere else. And so as soon as I started taking on the mentality of like the, the suffering should not come from waiting for St. Louis County to open up. The suffering should come from, did you wake up and get this stuff done? Did you go for your run? Did you get your administrative work done? Have you started to make changes to your business that you know you need to make? That's when the suffering becomes meaningful.

Charles Sheeley [00:53:27] Right. Actually, I, I say vacation because my, my job mandated. I, I use my vacation time, you know, and it, it's a corporate thing, so that's okay. And so that's kind of why I took it that way. And then, and then after like two weeks, I'm like, okay, well vacation's over for me. You know, and then, and, but I do, I I do agree it, it's a serious thing. And I think this all, I, I really believe majority of this could be prevented if people just wash their freaking hands, you know? And we're just actually conscious about washing hands before they eat and real basic hygiene. So I work at a place where it's a big factory, like 5,000 people work in there. So I touch what 5,000 other people touch in a day, right? So that's way different than, and it's not really that much different from you go on a gas station, right? So you should really wash your hands after that or anything, but whatever. I was always this guy that used to eat food off the table. If it French wife fell off, I'd pick it up and eat it. That was me. Back then, my wife was always real paranoid. She always washed her hands 'cause she was in charge of an infection control at her parents' dental office. So it was like, she's like, eh, and she would cringe. And so I actually quit doing that. But when this whole virus thing kind of started, I remember I, we went to out to eat after training and I went to grab this ketchup bottle and when I grabbed it, I felt the grease and I was just like, ugh. And then all of a sudden it went through my mind how many other people touched that ketchup bottle and didn't wash their hands.

Charles Sheeley [00:55:00] And then, and I, and where I work, I've seen people come out of doing number two and they don't wash their hands, which is why I fist bump people. I never shook hands anyway, unless I trust you to be a clean person. And I mostly fist bump people do avoid the transfer germs. I'm not a germophobe, I'm just aware. I mean, I'm, you can't be

Vance Crowe [00:55:23] A germophobe and being jiujitsu, it's not possible. It's like you're rolling around, there's, there's, it's like one step away from being naked with people because you're sweaty, you're spitting, you're trying to gasping for air. So nos no germ phobes in Jiujitsu,

Charles Sheeley [00:55:38] Right? No, actually I think your immune system is pretty good. If you train jitsu, like I would agree, like you probably got a pretty good immune system and the COVID probably won't affect you. But, so

Vance Crowe [00:55:48] What's your thought? When, when will Juujitsu be back?

Charles Sheeley [00:55:51] Dude, I think for the people that are already addicted, it'll back in a month. I mean the hardcore, right? I think the, the people who are kind of more hobbyists, which not hating on, I mean, that's fine. I mean, hobbyists can get to blue belt and even up to purple belt. It's, and, and there's no shame in that at all because that's how I kind of mostly went through. I just wanna learn how to defend myself and my wife and my family. I didn't want ever to be that moment where someone says, what are you gonna do about it? And me be like, well, absolutely nothing. I'm like, I'll choke you unconscious, bro. I have no other way of putting it other than I know how it's gonna end. 'cause I, there's no way a newbie is gonna put me in some scenario I haven't been in 5,000 times. It's like playing somebody that doesn't know chess for the first time. When I get on with those first, you know, in chess you have the, oh, I can't remember what it's called, but you basically can check made 'em in three moves. I can't remember the name of it, but it's the same thing. Like jiujitsu, the basics, the fundamentals are, if you don't know it, I will defeat you in three moves. And it's when you, only when you get into dealing with other people that know Jiujitsu, do you get into the complication of the game?

Vance Crowe [00:57:10] I wanna go to Jiujitsu two days after they open up, right? Because I want the, I want you and, and any of these other cra crazy dudes to just plow into one another. And then I'll be there on day day two or day three.

Charles Sheeley [00:57:27] Okay, well here, here's kind of my view on this, right? Because I actually believe that if it's already gotten, I mean if you really think about how behind like, oh, how behind all the places where the COVID first started popping up, like, you know, old folks homes and it's like there's how behind are they in in the actual interactions of the world? So the fact that it's first popping up, like, you know, I'm sorry I'm not

Vance Crowe [00:58:08] Well, I've seen it. So, so for me, the thing that's leading me to believe that we are headed back to regular land is that I, I interviewed a guy named Brad Fracking and he was one of the first people to get access to a huge amount of testing. So he was able to test 2000 people. A thousand people had it at his meat pack packing plant. And 90% of those had no symptoms. They didn't even know they were sick, right? And once you start seeing that, and then you start seeing it replicated, because once Brad came on and shared his results with me, I started getting results from all kinds of people and I started saying like, Hey, we reacted to this when we didn't know what it was. Hey, we, we had to be careful. But now we're getting data back and data allows us to readjust and say, okay, how, how much do we need to keep this going? How, how dangerous is this? And we get to evaluate and reevaluate. And to me, from everything I'm seeing, as long as I don't watch CNN or CBS, you know, if, if I watch a broader scope of things, to me it says we're headed in this direction. And that's why like if you were thinking you're on vacation now, it's time to start jogging now it's time to stop eating badly. Like regular world is about to begin. So everybody buckle up and get your shoes tied.

Charles Sheeley [00:59:21] And I a hundred percent agreed with that first month lockdown. You know, in fact I was off work for a month. I, I thought that was really necessary to prevent the hospitals from being over in. Now we're jumping into two months and it's like everyone that was gonna make physical contact for the most part I think is already done. And I'm actually kind of blown away by how many people, how many businesses are actually already closing. It's like, did you not prep for not making money? I mean, so I act like that, that's kind of mind blowing to me. Like I heard Gold's Gym was going down, I don't know if it's true or not, but it was just like, I heard these Yeah,

Vance Crowe [00:59:56] Gold's Gym is gone man. So that's where I used to live. So I'm gonna take all that money and, and invest it into a weight gym in my basement because I found out I do not need a gym to work out. I can work out in my house. I've done it, I don't know, 45 times in the last 50 days. So

Charles Sheeley [01:00:11] I I, I like a gym. 'cause it, it's a, this is only gym only time. And unless you have a certain amount of space, it's hard to make that separation. Some people need that because they, they have to separate it, you know what I mean? People think differently.

Vance Crowe [01:00:26] Yeah. The act of going somewhere that, that used to be me, I used to think like the act of needing to be at the gym by five 30 in the morning is what made me wanna lift. And what I came to realize was like, that's just you telling yourself that and other people they need to get away from their kids or they need more space or they don't have the investment into it. But for me, one of the things that I learned was I was tricking myself into being like, oh, you gotta have a gym to work out. Like no you don't bitch, go downstairs, do some pushups.

Charles Sheeley [01:00:53] Right. No, that's true. I mean that, that, that is right for most people I think. And they need that separation of being in my own like backyard or whatever and they don't get motivated. 'cause it's not, it's like, it's not gym time, right? It's, I'm at home and everyone has a separate mentality of, and I, I kind of fell into that because like I said, you know, kind of vacation. 'cause I'm so used to being so busy, like no break man. Like I wake up, I train jiujitsu, I go to work, I come home, spend family time, go to sleep and repeat over again. So I got in such a crazy pattern and this happened and it kind of was like, oh well vacation time, like okay on vacation time. And then once I thought it should be over and it wasn't, I'm like, whoa. So then we started, me and Taylor started doing like the Zoom class. 'cause I wanted to keep people interactive and active. I mean you can, these solo drills are actually really exhausting. I mean, you follow coaches that he is been posting that'll kill you, especially if you got a dummy to train with. But even if you don't, the solo drills, if you really do it. And that's why I also wanted to zoom 'cause I also miss the community. I, I'm,

Vance Crowe [01:02:10] Yeah, community is a big part of it. So as we, as we wrap up, if people wanted to know about your gym, they wanted to look up what you're doing. Coach is the one that I go to and the one that you train at to, to build your skills is BJJ Lifestyle Academy. But what's yours?

Charles Sheeley [01:02:25] It's a fathom. Brazilian Jiujitsu in Highland, Illinois. It's, we chose Fathom because fathom's how you measure depth and water and ju it's always related to water. So I kind of, and also when you go in depth in something and I, because I view Jiujitsu as not just a martial art. It's a way of thinking and it's a way of improving yourself. So

Vance Crowe [01:02:49] Dude, that's good. I don't know. I, I know a shot of chain is 70 feet is a fathom. 70 feet

Charles Sheeley [01:02:55] Fathom is six feet.

Vance Crowe [01:02:56] Six feet, okay.

Charles Sheeley [01:02:58] And that comes actually, that comes from a Nordic term or, or Viking term or whatever you wanna call it. 'cause most vikings are around six feet. And that term also used to mean like from finger fingertip. So that's why it came up to be like six feet. 'cause then, and it's measured, it's actually, I think I'm pretty sure like when a, an article like the, it's how depth of water is measured and it's every six feet. So they say fathoms, that means it's like a yard or whatever.

Vance Crowe [01:03:28] So if people wanted to get ahold of you, you got a website for Fathom Brazilian Jiujitsu?

Charles Sheeley [01:03:32] Yeah, it's Fathom brazilian jsu Do com or or fathom bjj.com. Sorry. And,

Vance Crowe [01:03:39] And if people wanted to see your crazy, crazy costumes that you've put up, where's a good place for them to go to see that stuff?

Charles Sheeley [01:03:45] Actually it's on Facebook or Instagram underneath Ruthless fx, the letters FX and, well, I think on Instagram it's ruthless FX props. And so that's where I do most of my costume stuff. So it's kind of taking a backseat and I'm waiting to do, me and the wife are working on what we wanna do next for the next big show. But we're, when we do something, we kind of go crazy. We, we go all out and that, that's what it takes. I think

Vance Crowe [01:04:12] That's passion, man. That's passion. So hey, when, when the gym opens up, man, I will come on up to Fathom. I've, I've always been wanting to make the trip and we will roll and I'd love to get your feedback, so.

Charles Sheeley [01:04:22] Oh, for sure man. Anytime. Just let me know, brother. Great.

Vance Crowe [01:04:25] It was good talking with you other, thank you so much

Charles Sheeley [01:04:28] Man. See you later man.