ATR: Corteva's 'Snitch Line' Sparks Farmer Fury, Chinese Bioterror Plot? Game Wardens Trespassing?

Kenny Bergmann [00:00:00] The Ag Tribes report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews, a video service that captures people as they really are, so the future knows who they really were. Here's Legacy Interviews, guest Steve Alt on the importance of preserving stories for future generations today. I grew up with my dad and my uncle all the time, and I heard all the old stories when the kids and the grandkids want to remember what happened those years ago. I think it's a really good idea. Legacies. I mean, it made me nervous. Don't get me wrong when he first starts talking about all this stuff, but you know, if you keep waiting so long, the memories too fade. I'm not saying I'm getting old, but when you can relax enough to get into it, that's where the stories come from. Welcome to the Ag Tribes report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture with your host, Vance Crowe. The report begins in 3, 2, 1. Let's begin.

Vance Crowe [00:01:04] Welcome to the Ag Tribes report. I'm your host, Vance Crowe. Each week I bring on a co-host to represent the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture. This week we have Kenny Bergmann, executive vice president of S&H, farm Supply, chairman of the Board of FCS Financial, and on his local school board. Kenny operates at 500 owned acres and rents an additional 700 acres in Missouri raising alfalfa, grass, hay, wheat, fescue seed and oats, along with 200 head cow calf operation and backgrounding up to 150 head. Kenny, welcome to the podcast.

Kenny Bergmann [00:01:43] Well, vans, thanks for having me on. I promise not to create too much reputation risk for you.

Vance Crowe [00:01:49] So Kenny and I know each other because we are on the FCS financial board, and I always am surprised that I'll, I'll be talking with Kenny and he will reference things that people said in conversation, combines it together with his knowledge of what's going on in the world. So what have you been paying attention to lately, Kenny?

Kenny Bergmann [00:02:09] Well, I've been watching a lot of things at the national level. I don't think national leadership has ever been more interesting than it is today, and I think it's never been harder to accomplish meaningful change. There's a lot of self-centeredness in, in, in all of our leadership in the things that we fight about today. Don't have a lot of elasticity in them. They're, they're things that I think people are pretty deeply rooted in their beliefs that separate us as a country.

Vance Crowe [00:02:45] Yeah, I mean to you, when you say today, I mean I really, it is, today is one of the most wild days of news that I've seen and so far it hasn't resulted in, you know, people dying or, or crazy catastrophe. But with Elon Musk and Donald Trump having a fallout, at first I thought maybe this is like WWF wrestling and they're gonna try and do good guy, bad guy. But you see Elon Musk come out and say, Donald Trump is on the Epstein, you know, files and that's why they haven't released it. You know, these two are not joking around this. That's pretty serious.

Kenny Bergmann [00:03:18] That's going to a bad place.

Vance Crowe [00:03:21] Well, we are gonna talk about things that are related, not as just to national level WWF rusting. We're gonna talk about Corteva controversial letter threatening farmers using generic herbicides on GMO crops where they put in an anonymous snitch line. And we're gonna examine whether this is a good idea. We're also gonna talk about the two Chinese nationals charged with smuggling crop destroying fungal pathogens into the US through the Detroit Airport. And we're gonna talk about an article written by Chris Bennett about Alabama landowners suing game wardens who have been conducting warrantless property searches under the open fields doctrine. We're gonna do this plus the Bitcoin land price report. We're gonna hear Kenny's Peter Thiel paradox and talk about his worthy adversary. And we're gonna try and do it in just 30 minutes. So let's get started. Headline number one, Corteva sends customers threatening letter about using generic products on GMO crops. Corteva has sent a letter to, to technology use agreement holders warning them against using generic two four D herbicides on their enlist crops in a move reminiscent of Monsanto's aggressive biotechnology protection tactics. The May 5th letter states that Corteva has received allegations of non-compliant crop production recommendations and applications taking place over top of enlist crops. And in worms that generic enlist products should not be used. The company emphasized that they're only, they're branded enlist one and enlist duo herbicides containing two four D may be used with these enlist crops, claiming that products provide significant benefits to growers, including near zero volatility and the reduced potential for physical drift.

Vance Crowe [00:05:08] However, farmers on message boards are reacting extremely negative to this tactic, which includes proactive in-person audits during the 2025 growing season, meaning they're gonna send people out there to check to see if, if you're using regular enlist. So Kenny Corteva is acting to protect its interest. It's a bold move to send a letter with an anonymous tip line in it. How do you think this approach is gonna play out for him?

Kenny Bergmann [00:05:37] Vance? I would guess that this doesn't land well with farmers. You know, we, we use a lot of technology. Technology is intertwined in a lot of things, whether that's crop genetics, whether it's cattle traceability, whether it's right to repair on farm equipment. And I think this relationship between users, dealers, and manufacturers really requires a lot of communication and trust. And, and, and when that trust is gone, it, it becomes a tough relationship to manage because the pieces are, are scattered. They're hard to ascertain, you know, when, when something's determined to be manipulated or if you're using the wrong product on your, you know, in something generic to replace, enlist and trying to save a dollar. You know, is that, is that the applicator? Is that the owner who's at fault? Where does, you know, I, I know that the, the purchaser of the seed is the one who agreed to the technology agreement in that transaction. But I, I would guess that most of these enforcement activities lead to a damaged relationship.

Vance Crowe [00:06:57] Yeah. You know, having worked at Monsanto after they had done a lot of these actions when, when biotech was first coming on, they signed exactly the technology agreement you were talking about, which said, Hey, I'm not gonna do this. And then Monsanto felt a lot of pressure to go out there and check to make sure people weren't doing it. Because if one farmer is following all the rules and another farmer right next to him isn't following the rules, that guy has a huge advantage over him. And so they went out trying to enforce it, but when the public heard about this, the way they heard about it was, Hey, some guys in black SUVs and dark sunglasses showed up on my field, snuck into it, checked it and you know, wrote up fake it things and accused me of doing things. So whether or not this was truly the case or not, the reputation hit that Monsanto took for it, I think in large part maybe cost them the company 15 years later.

Kenny Bergmann [00:07:51] Years later. Yeah. I I think the, you know, we have a long memory out here on the farm and so we want to do business with people we trust and they trust us. And the fact is that we have to find a way to pay for the investment in technology that, that that's real. And, and Corteva needs to be rewarded for their investment and their development. 'cause it changes the world. It helps us feed people more efficiently and improves our production efficiency. But you know, the challenge is how do, how they get paid for that is, is the, is the way they get paid for it in only buying their branded product? You know, or do we have more of an upfront here's the fee to in to, to to buy the seed rather than the product that you put over the top.

Vance Crowe [00:08:45] Yeah, and I mean, I can only imagine the, the, the, the discussions they were having in the Corteva room because if you using a generic two four D that volatilizes and floats off of your field and goes and kills another farmer's crops or their trees or all of a sudden, you know, other things are killed in a neighbor's yard, nobody's gonna look and say, was that generic or was that two four D? They're gonna say, that was two four D. And all of a sudden people's congressmen are gonna get called and lawsuits are gonna happen and they're gonna get swept up in this. So it is an incredibly complicated thing, but you know, you never feel good about setting up a situation where neighbors can report on one another. That's not a good look either.

Kenny Bergmann [00:09:29] That's pretty tough.

Vance Crowe [00:09:31] Alright, moving on to headline number two, A story that made headlines all over the United States. Chinese nationals charged with smuggling crop destroying pathogens into the US two Chinese nationals. Yung Ching, X, Y, and z Yang Liu face federal charges for smuggling Fusarium graminearum into the United States. The fungal pathogen classified as a potential agro terrorism weapon was discovered hidden in tissue inside of Liu's backpack in the Detroit Metropolitan Airport. This fum causes head blight in wheat, barley, and corn, and produces toxins harmful to humans and livestocks, while it is common in nature, introducing resistant or toxic strains could devastate agriculture and disrupt food security. The fungus is classified as a select agent due to its potential agricultural impacts. FBI investigators revealed the pair had discussed smuggling biological materials multiple times, including in 2022, an attempt where Gian had hid material in his shoe and a 24 effort to mail the fungus inside of a textbook, which was intercepted by customs. Both researchers planned to study the pathogen at the University of Michigan without the required USDA permits, violating bio biosecurity laws. Gian, a University of Michigan researcher is funded by the Chinese government, faces charges including conspiracy smuggling false statement and visa fraud. Liu was sent back to China and is unlikely to face US charges due to lack of an extradition treaty.

Vance Crowe [00:11:08] The University of Michigan condemned the actions and confirmed it received no Chinese funding for the research. So Kenny, the news cycle is so fast, the story came and then was quickly forgotten about. But do you think this was a serious breach by the us, by the Chinese government? Or is this just some overzealous academics that didn't think about the consequences?

Kenny Bergmann [00:11:30] Well, I think there's probably a 50 50 chance that it could be either Vance and, and at the end of the story, I, I don't know that it would matter if it was intentional bio-terrorism or if it was just ignorance of what they could cause had that pathogen been released and our crops be damaged with, with something that might take years for us to recover from. And I, I think that that's the, that's the thing that that stands out to me is wow, whether this was intentional or whether it was an act of ignorance. I'm just impressed by our customs people that they could detect bacteria in a shoe or something that's turning male. That gave me confidence that we do have a certain level of protection, especially after the last two years of the discussion of our open southern border. It's like, this is the exact opposite. We're we're watching some things really closely and we're doing a good job of watching over production agriculture. So that gave me a, a bolster of my confidence in, in our ag department, our, our customs agents that they could detect and stop this kind of activity, whether it was ignorance or whether it was intentional.

Vance Crowe [00:12:42] Absolutely. I agree with that. That's a great perspective because I I, it is astonishing to me that these guys have been doing this over and over again. And my sense from reading pretty deeply into this story is twofold. On the one hand, I am sure the, the bureaucracy to be able to study these types of pathogens, I'm, I'm sure it is absolutely absurd. I'm sure it's hoop jumping like you wouldn't believe, but these are the very people that understand on a deep level just how dangerous this is. And so to your point about it, does it really matter whether they had MAL and 10 or not? My father has this saying whether the rock hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the rock, it's bad for the pitcher. It, you know, we can't allow this at all. I think, I think this is, you know, throw the book at 'em because you need to make sure that nobody tries to do this.

Kenny Bergmann [00:13:31] That's right. And, and you have to increase and bolster your efforts to, to stop more of it. 'cause everything something comes up and bubbles up, it causes somebody else to think about doing a similar kind of thing.

Vance Crowe [00:13:41] Yeah. And I am one of the most anti TSA people out there. You know, I, I always think they miss everything. I've, I've gotten to hotels after flying and found out I've had a relatively large pocket knife in there, all kinds of things. So I don't think they're very good. But you're right, like not only did they catch this one, they caught one in an academic book and they also have found out they were able to look into their text messages. So bravo to to whoever's on on border security right now.

Kenny Bergmann [00:14:09] Yeah. And to the point, whether it was intentional or ignorance, I I love one of the, the Warren Buffett quotes and that is the absence of stupidity is of far greater value than the presence of genius.

Vance Crowe [00:14:25] Probably true. You know, the thing I think was scariest about this is it had real ramifications that when I looked into this fusarium and how quickly it can spread, particularly in really wet conditions like we're having right now in Missouri, this is not something that should just pop outta the headlines. I mean, there's so many news stories going on. This was a pretty serious overreach. So I'm, I was glad to cover this 'cause I think it didn't get nearly enough time for people to realize just how serious this was. All right, moving on to headline number three, Alabama landowners sue Game warden over warrantless property searches. Former Ag tribes report guest Christopher Bennett from Farm Journal, reported this week on a stunning case that reveals the staggering overreach of game wardens have in the us three Alabama residents have filed lawsuits challenging a state statute that allows game wardens to enter private property without a warrant or consent. Dalton Boley Regina Williams and Dale Lolley's partnered with the Institute for Justice to contest Alabama code section 9 2 6 5, which grants game wardens the authority to enter upon any land in the performance of their duty without requiring a warrant or probable cause. The plaintiffs who owned marked private properties with no trespassing signs have experienced multiple intrusions. Williams owns 10 acres in Killen where she was lived her entire life with Lilly's owns 85 acres where he uses for hunting with his grandchildren. And none of the landowners have been charged with hunting violations. The law reflects the federal open fields doctrine, which exposes about 96% of all private land, roughly 1.2 billion acres to warrantless searches.

Vance Crowe [00:16:06] However, the lawsuit argues that this violates the Alabama Constitution protections against unreasonable search and seizures. The Institute for Justice has successfully challenged similar laws in Tennessee and has ongoing cases in Pennsylvania and Louisiana. So, Kenny, what's your take on this balance between wildlife enforcement and private property rights?

Kenny Bergmann [00:16:28] I think it's a legitimate issue, Vance. First I wanna say that I have a great appreciation for the Missouri Department of Con Conservation and I, you know, I can think back to the days when I was a a child. I remember seeing our first white-tailed deer that I ever saw in the wild. I was probably eight or nine years old. And that was, that was quite an event because they were simply not there before and now they're everywhere. I I nearly hit three this morning, you know, and so, so it's become a, a routine site there in our yards. They eat our, eat our flowers. And, and I'm an outdoors and I love to hunt and fish, but most states, and in Missouri, you know, we have a, an independent commission that has a board that's point by the governor and they really have no regulatory oversight by our legislature. They are governed by that commission. And so they're largely, the, the wildlife code that they develop goes unnoticed or, or un unchecked by the public. There's not a, there's not as much of a sunshine that's shown on it. And when you, when you get to thinking about it, if you really, if you want to get a little concerned, pick up a Coffee of the Wildlife code and read it. Understand that if your buddy goes fishing, catches a limit of fish, cleans them, gives you something to eat, and you don't eat at all in that setting. You put some in your freezer and an agent were to come to your home and search and you didn't have the date and the license number of the harvester that you might be in trouble.

Vance Crowe [00:18:15] It's laws like this, you know, they, they start off from a place of, Hey, we wanna make sure that everybody has wildlife. You can't just protect it on these 10 acres and not those 10 acres. But it seems to me that just like all bureaucracy, it is spread out and become so powerful that, I mean, when you go read Chris Bennett's story on this, he's talking about game wardens coming on, turning their cameras around so they couldn't be seen and then coming and installing their own cameras on their property. It it, like the things these game wardens are doing seem completely inexplicable. Like what purpose could you have doing these things? And right now, without this kind of larger push to, to sue them, you're left just to the the devices. Devices of, of an independent game war that can basically do what he wants as long as he says it's in service of his duty.

Kenny Bergmann [00:19:07] Yeah. And I think therein lies a lot of the risk. I think this is, this all comes down to an individual individual integrity, right? And how do you view your role? And, and anytime you empower an agency or a group of people with that much unfettered power or or lack of oversight, you create a lot of risk that they will behave in a population friendly manner, right? And, and that they will keep true to their, to their purposes and not, not let things become personal or just overstep because the authorities there and, and it gives 'em something to do.

Vance Crowe [00:19:44] You know, this is just a shout out to Chris Bennett who I think is one of the best reporters in all of the United States. 'cause he's bringing a light to this. He pointed out this concept called curtilage, which I did not understand. And it is worth every listener here. Understanding curtilage is the area that you use, you kind of mow around it. You kind of, this is the area you keep cleaned up around your house. Anything outside of that curtilage, if you have like a little bit of woods behind your house, the game warden can come and put on a camera and it can be facing your house. As long as they don't come into the curtilage part of it where you're mowing and where you keep it up, they're totally within their rights. And this has prompted several of my friends to really push back how much area they mow, how much lawn they have, because that actually makes them feel like, Hey, I, I need to be able to push, you know, the government from being able to look right into my yard.

Kenny Bergmann [00:20:37] Yeah, I think we all feel a little presence with Big Brother technology, satellite, drone activity, you know, night vision. There's just a lot of things that I, I think when, you know, there, there's more need for conversation about what, what our agents doing, what are their purposes, what's, what's they're involve in, in the community. They have, they have a lot of good things that they do. We need to, we need to know whenever there's operations going on or they need to be on our property. I think there should be some communication to us that they're gonna be there.

Vance Crowe [00:21:14] Well that is going to do it for this week's headlines. If you have news that you think as your report this week, it was all sent to me by listeners, you can send it to me Vance at Legacy Interviews dot com or of course on X at Vance Crowe. Alright, moving on to the Bitcoin land price report. Last week Bitcoin was at 106,000 and today we're sitting at 101,000, which means we're down nearly 5% from last week. So Kenny, where do you live and how much does an acre of good quality farmland cost in terms of US dollars?

Kenny Bergmann [00:21:49] So Vance, I'm in southwest Missouri where our primary crop is ticks and, and ragweed and, and the subsoil is rock. That's about a half inch below the surface. So, you know, here, land values have increased significantly in the last few years, like most places. But a good acre of of land here is gonna sell in that 5,500, $6,000 range. And it's pretty consistent. Doesn't change much by size of tract or, or what, what type of ground it is.

Vance Crowe [00:22:23] Alright, well with Bitcoin sitting at 101,000 an acre of high quality farmland being $6,000, that would mean that one acre is worth about 0.0591 Bitcoin or in other words, one Bitcoin would purchase you 16.9 acres in, in Kenny's county, Polk County, is that right?

Kenny Bergmann [00:22:44] Polk County. Polk County, yep.

Vance Crowe [00:22:46] And how does that sit with you? 16.9 acres for one Bitcoin?

Kenny Bergmann [00:22:51] Well, I probably wouldn't trade any acres for a Bitcoin, even though I probably should. You know, I just, I don't, I don't understand it, but I do understand an acre of ground and that, that the numbers that you spit out there, my experience I probably would've bought last week and sold this week.

Vance Crowe [00:23:09] So where are you at on Bitcoin? How do you feel about it? Are you familiar with the technology?

Kenny Bergmann [00:23:14] You know, I just know enough to be dangerous and I'm looking forward to you teaching me more, but I, I'm not afraid of it. I just don't know how to apply it to my, my life or investment strategy or equity.

Vance Crowe [00:23:30] Yeah. One of the things that I've really enjoyed about being on the FCS financial Board is like when you're going out to dinner or you know, in between sessions, the guys are more than happy to tell me that. Like, I think you're crazy about this Bitcoin, but I would like to actually learn how do you use a wallet? And it's been, it's shown me like there's a lot of people that the reputation farmers have for being slow on technology, not these guys. These guys are open, open and, and willing to push on things. I love it.

Kenny Bergmann [00:23:56] I still like the gold standard, but I'm willing to look at Bitcoin.

Vance Crowe [00:23:59] Well it seems like, you know, with Elon Musk quitting and Donald Trump coming out and saying that he and Elizabeth Warren agree on one thing, which is to take off the, the, the debt limit ceiling. It seems like whether you're buying gold or Bitcoin, everybody should be putting money into scarce assets because they are going to print money to give themselves whatever they want. And I don't think anything stops this drain.

Kenny Bergmann [00:24:25] I think Jerome Powell has his work cut out for him to get 2% inflation with this money creation.

Vance Crowe [00:24:30] Oh gosh, it's gonna be crazy. Well, I personally buy Bitcoin using river.com and if you would like to buy Bitcoin and use a a and where you buy that, we'll support the show. Go to the, use the link in the show notes to buy Bitcoin. Alright, we're gonna move on from here into the Peter Thiel paradox, which I'm super excited to hear Kenny's 'cause I think Kenny is one of the most thoughtful people I know. What is one thing that you believe that almost no one you know, agrees with you on?

Kenny Bergmann [00:25:02] You know, Nancy, you asked me that question and, and I thought about this quite a bit. I think that I believe young people today can still start a farm and have a viable operation. And I think that's a challenge. Maybe it hasn't changed much in the last 40 years since the eighties, but it's still true. If, if that's what you wanna do, if that's where the fire burns in you is to be in production agriculture, you'll find a way to do it. I did and you can too.

Vance Crowe [00:25:32] When you say you did, did you, did you come into farming with land? How did you approach this?

Kenny Bergmann [00:25:38] No, I, I grew up on a, on a, on a farm, beef, cattle, hogs. But my parents and grandparents, they needed their operations to remain viable to, to help fund their lifestyle. And so I worked and I learned there. But when my wife and I got married, we, we were renting little pieces of land here and there, putting together a cow herd. My son was, was born in September, in, in about February we went and, and took $5,000 from our savings account, got a first time farm owner loan swallowed hard, set that baby carrier on the lawyer's table and thought, what in the world are we doing? And that, you know, that first winter we lived about five miles from the farm we bought. And the winter was tough. That winter it was, we had a spring cabin cow herd. And I remember being a young man and this is what I mean when, when you really wanna do it, you'll do it. I went, oh, I drove over to that farm at 10 o'clock at night, two o'clock in the morning, six o'clock in the morning. You check those cows all went along, lost one calf. But we needed every one of them to make that payment. And you'll find a way if you wanna do it bad enough.

Vance Crowe [00:26:56] You know, I I think that is a really strong Peter Thiel paradox because this is something that has become almost a truism. Oh, you can't get into farming. It's not possible. And I think it feels really good to hear somebody say, no, you can, but it's, it's maybe gonna cost you, you know, a a winter of sleep and that's not gonna be fun. And, and it may not work out. I mean you knew you had a lot of risk doing that, but it's, I I like this one.

Kenny Bergmann [00:27:21] You know, the, the fire's either in you or it's not Vince. And, and I have conversations with producers every day in my role at S&H and and the ones who are truly successful, they have a fire burning within them. And it's not a job to them, it's, it's not it like anything else you would do. It's a, it's a passion that they're driven to produce. They love to see the land bring forth life. They love to see the production cycle. They love the art of farming, they love the science of farming. Everybody has their own way that they will figure it out. And there's not a template that I can give anybody other than to say, if you want it bad enough, you will find the way.

Vance Crowe [00:28:02] You know, when I joined the FCS financial board, I remember they were talking like, we wanna support young farmers and you know, you kinda roll your eyes at that. But then I've actually been in the conversation about how much risk are we willing to take and you know, there's, some of them aren't gonna be able to make it. And like there are real organizations like FCS Financial that are willing to take risks on people. And I like, it's really surprised me and delighted me. But just to your point, getting the money's not enough. You're gonna have to,

Kenny Bergmann [00:28:27] To do

Vance Crowe [00:28:28] Some crazy stuff. Yeah. Alright, well I'm gonna give you a solid 7.5 on this. I think it was, it's a good one. 'cause people don't believe it, but not too controversial and it feels good, you know, I kind of want you to be right in a way.

Kenny Bergmann [00:28:41] I'll take that.

Vance Crowe [00:28:42] Alright, now moving on to the worthy adversary. This is where we spotlight an individual that we respect, but you don't necessarily agree with. So that we kind of widen out who are we, who are we listening to? So Kenny, who is your worthy adversary?

Kenny Bergmann [00:28:58] Oh, that's a great question, Vance. And I haven't, I haven't found that there's an individual who's maybe a worthy adversary. I, there's a lot of things that I like to battle. You know, one of the things that I hate with a passion is when I encounter someone and I say they, they're, I say, how are you doing today? And they say, I'm just living the dream. And it's like, that's a very, that's a very derogatory way to talk about being at the top of the food chain in a first class country where you don't have to worry about what you're going to eat that day, what you're, where you're gonna sleep that night if, if your country is secure, if you're, if you're protected by fire protection, police protection. So I guess my pushback is against the, the lack of appreciation for the things that we enjoy in America and the United States of America, probably more than anyone that I would debate about an individual topic. You know, there, I've, I've told a lot of people who have asked me what's the best product here? And, and I, I'm a firm believer that there's not a best for everyone, but there's a best for you and a best for me. And we have to do our due diligence to figure out what our real need is and what we need to accomplish and what our capacity is to accomplish that.

Vance Crowe [00:30:24] You know, I think you're in a very interesting position. You have been on several boards, you're an executive at a large

Kenny Bergmann [00:30:31] Farm

Vance Crowe [00:30:32] Equipment company, and you do have a way about getting along with people. And I think that has something to do with the way that you view people. They are, they aren't people that come into conflict. You, you don't really seek it out, but you're open to a diversity of opinions. What have you learned by being on boards and in your leadership positions?

Kenny Bergmann [00:30:51] Well, boards are people. People have opinions and opinions are fine. Our decisions should be made by things that are a lot deeper seated than that. And, and I had, I guess I was blessed early in life to spend a lot of time around mature people and people that made me think, and someone gave me some guidance early on in life that I've never forgotten. And that was, we should spend most of our time thinking about and developing those things that we would be willing to die for. What are the things in our life that we would stand up and fight to the death for? Not things that we would fight about or go around or two or argue about the things we'd be willing to die for. What are those things? Identify them, guard them like you would give your life for. And I think to me, there aren't very many of those things. And I find that most people agree on most of those things. And when you take it and you boil it down to that level, you can find common ground and then you can build from there to seek where you want to go with most decisions.

Vance Crowe [00:32:00] Yeah, I think that's great. I think so much of our time is spent arguing over something that as soon as it passes, we no longer have strong feelings. You know, somebody, you know, volcano erupts in Iceland and all of a sudden we're, we're volcano experts and then we're fusarium experts and we get really passionate about it, but we don't really care about it. But if you really boil it down to what matters and what you really care about, what you'd be willing to die for, that changes how many things you'd engage your time and attention on.

Kenny Bergmann [00:32:27] Yeah. I mean, somebody else is going to deal with all these problems when I'm not here on this earth any longer and the problems are still gonna exist because where there's people and there's weather and there's disaster, there's problems. Right. And we're, we're going to disagree on some ways in how to handle those. And you know, I, I'll use our current political landscape maybe as a, as, as a point to talk to. And I, I think, you know, I I've told many people I would support a candidate who would go to Jefferson City or to Washington, DDC and would promise never to introduce new legislation outside of something that would rescind a currently existing regulation or, you know, put freedom back in our country, maybe push a decision from the national level back to a state level. I think we have far more bills that are introduced today. They're almost all to create a, an advantage for some group of people rather than truly to protect freedom or our country.

Vance Crowe [00:33:36] I mean, you're singing my song, I am all about like, let's just throw as many rules out as we possibly can make the rules that we enforce because that truly every law is enforced at the end of a gun. It doesn't matter whether it's a seatbelt law, it doesn't matter, it could be anything. It's all done at the end of a gun. And really, if you think about how much should we be willing to use force, because right now most of democracy is about like, well I'm gonna use those police officers to enforce this law and you know, we just keep stacking more and more and more laws on and, and that makes everybody criminals and it gives certain people a lot of power and other people to be subject to it. So I'm totally with you. If I, whatever that party is that is slash and burn laws, I'm, I'm all about that.

Kenny Bergmann [00:34:20] Yeah. And, and there are laws that are meaningful, there are laws that are important, but there are a lot of regulations, there are a lot of code that just gives certain groups of people in our society an advantage. And then those are not the way to govern, in my opinion.

Vance Crowe [00:34:38] Well, this is gonna do it for the show, but before we wrap up, we are just two short Sundays away from Father's Day. So I thought I'd ask you, Kenny, a question about your dad. When you look back, you're a grandpa now, in what way did, do you see your father showing up in the way that you are a parent or a grandparent?

Kenny Bergmann [00:35:01] Well, dad loved people and he was pretty straight shooter and I always loved the outdoors and, and he was always trying to accomplish something. And so I can remember when I was a young man, I wanted to go hunting. I said, dad, let's go hunting. And he, he would say something like, well yeah, sure, jump in the truck, I'll grab the chainsaws. And I thought why we using chainsaws to go hunting and, and I knew we were gonna cut wood and pretend to be hunting. So I know myself well enough to know he was fueled by accomplishment. I tend to be fueled by accomplishment. And so turning, turning playtime into some type of a teaching environment, whether that be gardening or livestock or saying, Hey come ride the tractor with pawpaw. Combining work and play is probably the the key thing that I would point out.

Vance Crowe [00:35:58] I love it. I absolutely love that. You know, there are so many people when they get a legacy interview, they buy it, you know, for their parents, Hey, we wanna record your story. But really what they're thinking is a lot of men, I've heard them say this, is I want my kids to see this so they can know why I am the way that I am. Because they can see what dad or what grandpa was like because I mean, we all are like, we're all the dads, you know, there's so much of our dad in us when we're raising our own kids. Yeah,

Kenny Bergmann [00:36:24] I can remember when my kids are grandkids are just getting the ball playing age and I can remember my dad saying to you, I'm gonna throw the ball at your head and you will learn to catch it.

Vance Crowe [00:36:33] That's a good one. Alright, and Kenny, if if people wanted to learn more about something you're interested in, where would you point their attention to?

Kenny Bergmann [00:36:42] Yeah, so if you wanna learn more about s and h or S and H Country, just go to sandhcountry.com. We have an extensive website there. You can check out all our links. If you wanna learn about F Cs financial and farm credit system, go to my fcs financial.com. Good groups of people in both organizations can help you find what you need.

Vance Crowe [00:37:02] Well thanks for coming on Kenny. Alright, that's gonna do it for the Ag tribes report. We have. It was so great to have Kenny on. If you are interested in getting your father a legacy interview, go to Legacy Interviews dot com. You can click on the contact page and sign up for a quick phone call with me. I did about four calls just today. Our schedule is pushing way out into July, but it is really an exciting time and if you wanna capture your dad's story so your kids know why you are the way you are, a legacy interview is a great way to do that. Also, I will throw a link to river.com into the show notes and, and if you wanna buy Bitcoin there, that'll support the show. So, all right, that's gonna do it for this week's show. As always, feel free to disagree.