Ag Tribes Report Corn Prices fall, Des Moines won't let lawn farmers water @JasonHanson2028

Jason Hanson [00:00:00] The Ag Tribes report is brought to you by Legacy Interviews, a video service that captures people as they really are. So the future knows who they really were. Here are Legacy Interviews guests, mark and Stephanie Mendenhall on the unexpected ease of their experience.

Vance Crowe [00:00:17] What'd you guys think? How was it?

Jason Hanson [00:00:19] Much easier than I expected. Yep. Much easier. You made us feel very comfortable. Was this

Vance Crowe [00:00:24] Something that weighed on you for a while?

Jason Hanson [00:00:26] Did her, I just heard, I, we looked at it and said, well, we'll just wing it because you know, you give this list to figure it out, this out and figure this out. Oh, well we didn't get that done. What? What we remember, we remember and what we forgot. We'll tell the kids later tomorrow I'll say, God, why didn't I tell this story? Why this, or why didn't I tell 'em about this? Say this. You do a good job of asking questions. Welcome to the Ag Tribes report, a breakdown of the top stories affecting the culture of agriculture with your host Vance Crow. The report begins in 3, 2, 1. Let's begin.

Vance Crowe [00:01:05] Welcome to the Ag Tribes report. I'm your host, Vance Crow. Each week I bring on a co-host to represent the perspectives of one of the many ag tribes that collectively make up US and Canadian agriculture. This week we have Jason Hanson, an NDSU alumnus, who relocated from North Dakota to North Carolina with his wife to start a farming venture focused on sustainable agriculture. A vocal critic of big Ag and government overreach. Hansen is working to establish a small farm on a former plantation with the goal of raising beef and promoting regenerative farming practices. Jason, welcome to the AG Tribes report.

Jason Hanson [00:01:43] Thank you Vance. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for the invite.

Vance Crowe [00:01:46] So tell me a little bit about this farm you just purchased.

Jason Hanson [00:01:49] Yes sir. So, yeah, about a year ago we re relocated originally from North Dakota, but we actually a few stops along the way. We were out in Utah for a couple years, all with my career with the N-R-C-S-U-S-D-A-N-R-C-S, which spanned about 14 years. But North Dakota, we went out to Utah for a couple years back North Dakota. Then we went out to the Pacific Islands. We were out on Oahu in Hawaii for the last four years before moving to the Raleigh area. We're actually east. We're in Tarboro mailing address north of Tarboro here in Eastern North Carolina. And yeah, we bought a 10 acre property out here. Took a national headquarters job with the NRCS based outta Raleigh. But actually I took the federal buyout here earlier this spring and just needed to get outta that and into, so now next, I guess that's the farm. Now it's probably gonna be a few different other things, but the goal here on this 10 acre property was to get it up and running again. It's an old 1848 plantation house we bought with the 10 acres. About four or five of it has been in production before dating back to, you know, when this place was built in 1848. All the things that come with those, you know, over those years too, we've got photo documents here, you know, of activities out here and, and the whole history as you can about imagine in North Carolina in those times, it's pretty interesting. It's on the historic register, but we have never, or nobody else, previous owners have never taken any money for it. So we don't have the limitations there. So we've got some flexibilities, but we did purchase with the idea of hopefully beef here at some point we might have to buy land for that, but we're doing a little vegetable production in year one, but also cut flowers, which my wife kind of her primary goal is to get out in nursing the medical field full-time, at least long term.

Jason Hanson [00:03:33] So that was kinda the goal here is to get into cut flowers. So vegetable production and just largely being able to grow what we can, you know, kind of subsistence farming, if you will, to a point. And then sell whatever else we can as well. So that's fantastic.

Vance Crowe [00:03:49] Pretty, it's a pretty wild ride to go from NRCS to actually farming. So I'm, I'm glad to bring on your perspective this week. Yeah,

Jason Hanson [00:03:57] Appreciate that. So

Vance Crowe [00:03:58] This week we're gonna be talking about corn, the corn market, facing a perfect storm. We have a lot of supply and we're watching the potential for ethanol demand to decline as EVs are gaining traction. We're also gonna talk about central Iowa's unprecedented nitrate contamination crisis, forcing the first ever lawn watering ban. And we're gonna talk about Trump's decision to rescind the Roadless rule opening 58 million acres of national forest two logging. We're also gonna do the Bitcoin land price report. We're gonna hear Jason's take on the Peter Teel paradox and we're gonna hear about his worthy adversary. And we're gonna try and do that in just 30 minutes. So let's get started. Headline number one, corn market faces perfect storm over supply meets EV threat. The US corn market is under pressure from near record production and growing inventories with a potential challenge from the rise of electric VE vehicles and robo taxis that could reduce demand even further for corn-based ethanol. The USDA estimates that 2024 corn harvest at 15 billion bushels, one of the largest ever on record and ending stocks, are predicted at almost 2 billion bushels. This is an increase of over 178 million bushels from the previous year. Corn futures were trading at $4 and 11 cents per bushel down over 10% from the past month. So if you've been storing grain, hoping for prices to rebound, things just got a lot worse.

Vance Crowe [00:05:31] This is all set against a backdrop of Elon Musk launching robo taxis in Austin, Texas this week, which are both electric and will potentially lower. The need for people to own vehicles rides during their training phase are marked at just $4 and 20 cents as a flat rate. And Musk has claimed that future costs could drop as low to 30 to 40 cents per mile for the cyber cab. So if you consider this and how much that might take out of demand for ethanol production, which currently accounts for 35 to 40% of US corn use, this could have a pretty big impact on what is already a lot of supply. So Jason, it seems like supply is outstripped demand and that the markets are gonna put a lot of farmers in a perilous position. Is this a passing phase or is this the new reality for corn farmers?

Jason Hanson [00:06:25] You know, Vance, I can't, I got a brother that farms up in North Dakota yet, and you know, mom and dad farmed forever. We grew up working on small family farms, but I, I don't think it's a new trend by any means, but I also don't think it's the new reality either. I think it's the reality that's been here. You know, I, again, I remember my parents auction sales about five years old. That's what I remember of my parents farming. They got out like a lot of people did in the late eighties, early nineties. You know, they just, it was what they had to do to save the land. That's what they had to do. And like I said, I got a brother that farms up there, corn, soybean, sugar, beets, those things, you know, so it, it hits home here in these things. I got another brother that has a excavation business, a lot of drain tile installation, things like that. And he's done very well for himself. And I started, I worked for him for eight years too, up in North Dakota. And then combined with working with, you know, small family farms and big farmers as well all across the country with the U-S-D-A-N-R-C-S, I mean, it absolutely hits home, but it's not a game that we can even consider playing. And you know, financially it just isn't. And you know, unless you're born into it, it doesn't seem like there's any way to really get into it unless you get really lucky. And of course those stories happen. It isn't something that can't be done. But for us realistically to get into corn, soybean production, but specifically corn production at scale, it's just not something that we can do. So that's why we're going to different route the cut flower. Yeah, I mean,

Vance Crowe [00:07:46] Farmers this, this week have been talking all about how crazy the markets are. If you follow any grain traders, they're talking about it trying to catch a falling knife. And I heard one guy on X, he was a banker, he was talking about how this is really impacting people's operating lines of credit. If you were taking out, I think he gave the example of $300,000 for an operating line and you're waiting for corn prices to go back up. So you could sell, now you're trying to go to the bank to extend the operating line 'cause you don't wanna sell at these depressed prices. But the bank's gonna say, Hey, you, you gotta sell. Then that further adds more su supply onto the market, thus further dropping prices. Seems like pretty rough out there for corn farmers right now.

Jason Hanson [00:08:29] For sure. Well I can tell you Vance, I never thought I'd be in invited to something like this years ago. 'cause I think when I first got on Twitter, you know, I was coming from, you know, the N-R-C-S-U-S-D-A side of things and you know, kind of with that lens, if you will, and I remember making comments on Twitter or tweeting, I guess you could say. You know, hey, like if you guys know the corn prices are terrible, then why do you keep planting it? You know, it's just very simple question. And I tell you the hate that you get for saying something so simple, it's kind of astounding sometimes. Of course that comes with anything on the internet. But I think it's a fair question.

Vance Crowe [00:09:03] Well, I mean, I think it's 'cause they're insured to do it, right? I I absolutely. I spoke with a buddy this week that got a six figure check Yeah. For, for things not going right. And he didn't, he didn't, he wa you know, things go wrong and you still get paid and as long as you plant corn and soy, the government's gonna keep giving you that money. I think it's clearly incentivized by the government.

Jason Hanson [00:09:24] Absolutely. Especially when you're doing it by the acre too. And, and even by, you know, if you've got more than one person, you know, in your entity, you're getting more dollar. You know, there's so many things that the USDA does that promotes the big time operators versus small farms. That's part of the reason why I left.

Vance Crowe [00:09:40] All right, moving on to headline number two, central Iowa nitrate crisis forces first ever lawn watering ban. According to Iowa Public Radio, Des Moines Waterworks took an unprecedented step of issuing a lawn watering ban in an effort to keep up with demand for nitrate-free drinking water. After nitrate levels spiked in the Des Moines and Raccoon Rivers Central Iowa's experiencing a severe nitrate contamination crisis leading to the first ever watering ban affecting over 600,000 residents. The crisis is being blamed on agricultural runoff from nitrogen based fertilizers used in corn and soybean farmers. According to a Polk County report, linking farming pollution to the unsafe river conditions, nitrates LE levels in untreated water consistently exceed the EPAs 10 milligrams per liter limit, forcing the central Iowa works to run nitrate removal facilities at full capacity using reverse osmosis and ion exchange. This is incredibly expensive and they still have struggled to get it down to 10 milligrams per liter. In fact, it was at 11 milligrams per liter. And this is such a big risk because for infants under the age of six months, they can develop blue baby syndrome because not you can't get enough oxygen in the blood. So this is going on. Iowa Ag Secretary, Mike nag took to LinkedIn to attribute the nitrate spikes to weather saying there's, Hey, there's been so much rain in Iowa. It's, you know, it's not just agriculture, it's also natural in soils.

Vance Crowe [00:11:15] There's urban runoff and other sources like golf courses. And so he's trying to say, Hey, don't blame agriculture too much on this. What do you think, Jason, you have been in this field, a lot of accusations happening. Is this agriculture's fault? Is this just the way that it is? Or are golf courses trying to keep their lawns too green?

Jason Hanson [00:11:36] Well, I think it's, I think like anything in life, I think it's a little bit of everything and there's a lot of nuance here. And I think on the agricultural side of things, you know, not to get too long-winded on this, but you know, the NBS has been around soil conservation service centers. CS has been, you know, active for over 90 years here. And we still haven't figured out the baseline soil health, you know, to raise that, to raise that bar to achieve baseline soil health across the country, which basically was the mission of the Soil Conservation Service in NRCS. Effectively, it's not the first time it's rained heavy in Iowa. It's not the last time, it's not the first time it's been dry. You know, those things happen. It goes in cycles. I think we all know that, you know, the climate change kind of stuff, it gets politicized and whatnot. But I mean, what we're truly trying to achieve is resilience in keeping those nutrients in the field and where they're put and so they can be used appropriately and not over applying and all these things. And that echoes for everybody. That's not just ag, that's golf courses, that's your residential, you know, all across the spectrum, you know. But I think to blame it on the weather, I don't know, he must be up for reelection or something, but I just, I don't, that doesn't work with me. 'cause again, it's not the first time it's rained, it's not the last time it's gonna rain. I think you have to expect these things and I think we have to raise the bar on what we're willing to accept or not. I just,

Vance Crowe [00:12:54] Well, Elliot Henderson just commented it's a hundred thousand pounds of naturally occurring nitrate in Iowa's farmland. The farmers are not the problem here. When I was doing research for this story, I did find out like when you have heavy rains and man Iowa has been just getting hit over and over again. Sure it does leach out nitrates also, they've got, all this land is tiled, which means that water is moving much, much faster off the fields. I don't know, it's hard to say that it's not agriculture's fault, but it, you know, it's, it's definitely, they're definitely making a contribution.

Jason Hanson [00:13:28] Yeah, I think, I think you'd be a little crazy to say it's, it's not contributing, right? I mean that's, that's just not realistic to what degree, you know, again, those things can be debated and decided. But again, I think, what are we doing knowing that the rains are gonna come and keep coming? What are we gonna do about it? And I think that's the question where I go to in my mind is, okay, knowing that these things are gonna happen, whether it's now or 10 years from now, or 30 years from now. 'cause again, the cycles have always been there. What are we doing to prepare for it? How can you keep it in place? And I think that's what,

Vance Crowe [00:14:01] What do you have outside of not put on, you know, fertilizer? Are there other options?

Jason Hanson [00:14:06] Well, I think, you know, again, the, the, even the term soil health has been probably abused. Not to the point of, you know, climate change, but probably abused and, you know, I think regurgitated enough, and forgive my comment here, but bastardized enough, you know, that some people just laugh at it when they hear it. But I think basically the principles, if you can do the no-till or the strip till, you know, I think there's some things there. I think incorporating the cover crops, you know, I know people get sick of hearing that, but they are an effective tool, just like drain tiles an effective tool. You know, I think the nutrient management, I think the grazing options that aren't used on the bulk of American cropland, I think there's a, a lost resource there. And I think, you know, instead of applying all these synthetics, is there other ways that we can get the fertilizers on the ground in a more natural way? I think there's a ton of things we can do. The crop rotations are a big part of it. Look at what Jason Milk is doing. I was supposed to be in Indiana last week for his field day, the alley cropping. We were working with that in Hawaii too, and trying to get figured out, you know, we've lost the ability on how to do a lot of those things. But people way before us were doing it. And now with our new technology, I think the combination there is gonna get us there, but we just have to, we gotta do it at scale. And I think it is scalable. It just, you know, I think we, we let perfection get in the way of progress on a lot of these fronts.

Vance Crowe [00:15:29] Well, we're gonna follow this and see just how long the nitrate stays in Iowa's drinking water. We'll revisit this, but moving on to our final headline of the day, headline three, Trump Rescinds Clinton Era Roadless Rule opens up 58 million acres to logging. The Trump administration has rescinded the 2001 Roadless area conservation rule with Secretary of Agriculture. Brooke Rollins announcing a decision during the Western Governor's Association meeting in New Mexico earlier this week. The move ends decades of protection for nearly 59 million acres of national forest land opening areas to road construction, timber harvesting, and wildfire prevention efforts. The roadless rule was implemented by Clinton, the Clinton administration prohibited road building and commercial logging across the 58 million acres of pristine forests. The policy is aimed, was aimed at preserving wildlife habit, safeguarding drinking water, and protecting recreational areas. I did do a little look into where this is, some of this stuff is not going to be logged. The Tongass National Forest is, is unlikely to be logged, but Sierra Nevada, the Wasatch Range in Utah, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Washington, all have had serious problems with, with wildfires in, in Utah, the rule allegedly reduced economic development in the forestry industry by over 25%. And the rescission aligns with President Trump's executive order directing the Department of Agriculture and Interior to reduce wildfire risk and boosting timber mill sales.

Vance Crowe [00:17:06] So, and it looks like there might be up to $500 million that will go to the US Forest Service for stumpage fees if they start cutting those out. So Jason, what do you think is, is this really a genuine forest management issue that's gonna lower wildfires or is this a corporate giveaway?

Jason Hanson [00:17:27] You know, again, Vance, I think it's probably in some respects, maybe a little bit of both. But I tell you, in the two years, we spent two years from 2015 as 2017 working for NRCS out in southwestern Utah. Lived in Cedar City wife, worked down in St. George, worked up in Penit, right by Bryce Canyon National Park. And I tell you, coming from, you know, North Dakota where it's, I forget the percentages, but basically all private land in Eastern North Dakota to going out to southwest Utah where I think it was 97%, 96% federal lands out there, either Forest or BLM had control. It, it, it really was kind of shocking to see the difference, pros and cons. But I tell you, the locals wanted more local control and I understand that to a point I think state control and you know, the stuff with Mike Lee, the senator from Utah here lately, also kind of in a line here trying to sell some of the federal lands. I mean I think all these kind of things overlap, these discussions and these policies overlap in some respects. Sure. Is that a corporate giveaway? Yeah, potentially. I think there's a real high potential for that. 'cause everything in our government seems to go that way. But also do some of these lands need to be managed to reduce the fire risk and other things. I think absolutely. You've seen, I forget what the name of the beetle out in Southwest Utah. I mean the fire has basically killed that thing off and when it runs rampant, it kills all the trees and then you get these massive fires following, again, that's been 10 years since we've lived out there now. But it's, you know, I think anybody out in that area would know what I'm talking about and they can speak to it obviously far better than I can.

Jason Hanson [00:19:00] But, you know, again, do the forest management plans need to happen? Does the actual action need to take place? Absolutely. I think so. You know, again, it, it gets chalk up to, to climate change, but I think it's just poor land management and I, you know, that kind of covers all these topics.

Vance Crowe [00:19:16] Yeah, the 2021 Dixie fire that caught over almost a million acres in the 2017 Rice Ridge fire was 160,000 acres. And these are sparked by lightning and they get way worse because there haven't been any roads to be built in there. So you don't have the, the access. And then you also have way over abundance of trees. On the other hand, 60% of fires are started by humans that are in camping areas that aren't going to be logged. So, you know, maybe there's other things they should be doing if you're really going after wildfires.

Jason Hanson [00:19:48] Right, right. And knowing that, I mean, is there more management could, it could be done closer to the roads, you know, versus, I mean there's a whole bunch of things there that a forester could tell you better than I could, but I think again, it's, it seems to be a little bit of everything.

Vance Crowe [00:20:02] All right, well that is gonna do it for the news this week. If you have stories that you think I should be covering, you can always send them to me on X at Vance Crow or email them to me Vance at Legacy Interviews dot com. All three stories came from listeners this week, so thank you very much for that. Moving on now to the Bitcoin land price report. Last week Bitcoin was at 105,000 and today we're sitting at $107,500, which is up 2.3%. So Jason, what county in North Carolina do you live in and how much does land going for a good acre of farmland there?

Jason Hanson [00:20:40] Yeah, so we bought our property north of Tarboro, which is situated right in Edgecombe County, North Carolina. And average value out here is about 6,000 an acre. And you know, it's, it really is quite the variety out here. There's a lot of development coin kind of coming from both directions, east and west, from the Raleigh, from the West, Greenville, from the southeast. You know, it's just, it, there's a lot of, a lot of activity out in this area.

Vance Crowe [00:21:05] If you're paying 6,000 for an acre, what are you doing with it? Are you, are you grazing? Are you tr ra running crops? What are you doing?

Jason Hanson [00:21:11] There's a lot of crop land out here. A lot of the trees that were here, there's been a lot of trees removed even since we moved out here last year. You know, and again, I don't know the history of it, I don't know, you know, what the cycles are there, but a lot of, you know, there's watermelon production, there's cotton production's big, of course tobacco production is big. There's soybeans out here, there's field of sunflowers out here as well. And, and then of course our little 10 acres. But you know, it's, there's a lot of interesting things going on around here. Different ag than I'm used to, but it's an interesting part of the country.

Vance Crowe [00:21:44] Alright, well at 6,000 an acre, that means you can get an acre for 0.055 Bitcoin or one Bitcoin would get you seven point 17.9 acres. How does that sit with you?

Jason Hanson [00:21:59] I wish I had some Bitcoin, man. We have a little but not enough.

Vance Crowe [00:22:03] Well, I love hearing that, you know, this week actually just last night I encountered a, a guy that I follow, his name's Jack Mallers. He's, he sells Bitcoin on a, on a, on an app called Strike. He's runs a different company, but he actually put something out that I thought is, is something worth listening to. So I thought I would let him play for just two minutes. This is a video by Jack Mahler's on how is the Economy actually doing?

Jason Hanson [00:22:29] He's asking me, Hey Jack, if Trump's official policy is America first and telling China get their money outta the country And everyone goes, well isn't the stock market then gonna have to go down? And I say, yes, absolutely. And they say, but Jack, it keeps going up. Aha, going up in what? Brooklyn Daily Eagle, October 24th, 1929, the Great Depression, the DGIA hits its lowest point on July 8th, 1932, 89% below its September 29th peak, defining the most significant bear market in Wall Street's history. The market would not return to its 1929 high until 1954. The Great Depression. So the stock market down 89%. And people say, but Jack, the stock market has not been down that much in recent memory. In 1929, the dollar was backed by gold. So the stock market was down 89% in gold terms. That's why it was a real depression. You see, let me show you, from 2000 to 2011, the stock market was down 89% in gold terms. So if you measured the stock market in gold, you already lived through a great depression hot shot, you just didn't see it. We had a great depression in plain sight. How manipulation of the money.

Jason Hanson [00:24:03] What I'm saying is yes, the stock market is going to get obliterated. Obliterated in what? Not in dollars. Stop looking at things in dollars, you're gonna miss these things in broad daylight. The whole world has already lived through stock market crashes, just not in dollar terms. People say, oh man, my stock portfolio's up again this year. Weird. Why can't I afford rent? That's weird. Why am I getting less groceries? That's weird. Filling up my tank is really expensive, but my stock market went up. Depends what you're measuring in. You understand the s and p 500 against Bitcoin over the last five years, down 81%. What about food food's down 85% against Bitcoin in the last five years we lived through a depression and a performance that was greater than the Great Depression, but no one batted an eye. 'cause they used the wrong measuring stick.

Vance Crowe [00:25:03] So I know he is talking about the stock market, but to me, I look at that and I think, man at, at corn prices at $4 and 11 cents, I wonder what it is, price in gold. And I went and looked it up. I was trying to put it up here, I I'm not able to get it up, but it's not looking good. Like yeah, yeah, we're not only are we at depressed prices, but the value of the dollar and what it can buy you, even if you were able to sell it at a higher price is hurting. How does that sit with you, Jason?

Jason Hanson [00:25:30] Well, I think dating back to even the, you know, the initial wave of COVID back in 2020 when they were, you know, talking about sending out checks to everybody, I remember making comments at that point, like, man, that $4,200 or whatever we got in our family of three, we're really gonna pay for that. And I think the more money we print, I mean we see it every year and it's just, it's insane. It needs to stop in my opinion, you know, but it's gonna hurt. But I think the more we go on here, it's gonna hurt worse. And I think again, just the, the general policies that we've been, you know, kind of stuck in the ruts that we've been, you know, just kind of coasting along here and keep spending and spending and spending, it's gonna catch up with us sometime. And I think the argument could be made that it certainly already has.

Vance Crowe [00:26:09] Yeah, I think that farmers right now are feeling that and, and even if you're upset about $4 and 11 cent corn, if you compare that to what $4 and 11 cents bought you just, you know, a year ago, it, that's really, that's a really big hurting you're putting on.

Jason Hanson [00:26:25] Absolutely.

Vance Crowe [00:26:26] All right, so now moving on to the Peter Thiel paradox, this is where I am gonna ask Jason, what is one thing that you believe that almost nobody in your tribe agrees with you on?

Jason Hanson [00:26:38] You know, I kind of struggled with this one a little bit Vance, but I think one thing I come back to is, one of the reasons I, I felt comfortable leaving the USDA, the NRCS was I think the ability to do the mission better, more efficiently than we have been as an agency. And I think the way, one of the ways it could be done is running through a nonprofit. And I know the NGOs, nonprofits especially have been catching a lot of flack, especially since the new administration, administration came in in January. I think like USAA id, you know, those kind of things, those topics, whether you believe what was going on or not, I think there's, you know, again, some of that stuff may be up for debate what was truly going on, but I think the nonprofit world has taken a hit in some respects in that. But I, I also think that nonprofits could largely, if you get the right people running them and if you have the right missions associated with them, I think they could largely replace much of what the federal governments do or federal government does. And I think state governments as well. And I think there's a lot of, you know, NRCS specifically, you know, the old mission, I don't remember the new long worded one, it doesn't matter. But the one that I came into the agency with was helping people help the land. I mean there's a million way ways to do that, but there's some very easy ways, like we were talking about with the rain situation and the nitrates in Iowa and elsewhere, there's some soil health things that could be done with a nonprofit offer long-term land rental contracts or put it into easement form. And I think if you had the right mindset, and I'm working on that, trying to create my own, and if there's anybody out there listening that already has the framework for it and they want to go work together, let me know.

Jason Hanson [00:28:16] But we don't have to reinvent the wheel. But I just think there's a lot of opportunity through the nonprofit well realm to get a lot of things done to actually help people. And then it can be said for health insurance. I mean, anything,

Vance Crowe [00:28:28] What's interesting to me about your Peter Teal paradox is, I, I completely agree with you that the government can't do a good job of it, but I would go towards private enterprise towards, you know, a business' doing this. How come you say nonprofits instead of private business?

Jason Hanson [00:28:43] Well, again, I think there's some nonprofits out there that are, are worthless too. I mean, I think we all can admit that there's some that, you know, raise a lot of money and what do they get done? I mean, I think there's some hard questions that need to be asked, but I think even like a good politician, which I don't know if there are any, but I think if you are transparent with what you're doing and if you're really being efficient with the money that you are raising, I, I just don't see how it's, you know, it basically is private, it's actionable. Like a private entity could be, it can be as efficient as a private entity, but you're just getting your financing from, you know, basically the collective, you know, if you have a good enough mission, I think people would be willing to donate to you and, and that money wouldn't have to get through fed, you know, run through the federal avenues and actually the tax savings and things that can be achieved by donating to a nonprofit that's certified. You know, I think bypassing the federal government, not only on the policy side but also the tax side, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.

Vance Crowe [00:29:38] Yeah. And then at that point, if you're doing it any time you're doing it outside of the government, then it's not done through force, then it's, hey, whatever can collect and what they can get on board, other people on board for, then it's, then it's, it's demand driven as opposed to supply driven. Correct.

Jason Hanson [00:29:55] That's the one thing I always appreciated. Well, two things I appreciated about my career at the NRCS was, number one, the people, 90% of the people are absolutely excellent and they want to be there and they're trying to do the right things. And I think that's probably with every federal agency and or you know, really in any part of life, I think most people are trying to do a good service. But also, you know, I think I lost my train of thought there, sorry. That's

Vance Crowe [00:30:19] Alright. Yeah, I mean there's the real Peter Teal paradox about the, you know, 90% of the people are they actually contributing when they're working in the government? That is, would you make that case?

Jason Hanson [00:30:32] Yeah, I think it's pretty high. I mean, some of the folks that I've been able to work with over the career, you know, again, there's 10% that you never wanna work with again, right? I think that's, I think that's whether you're working in a bank or in a me mechanic shop or on a farm, you know, I think that's just life. But most of the, it, it always amazed me that as bad as we can butcher some things policy wise and whatnot, we were always able to find great people. And a lot of 'em were younger, but they're motivated and they truly, and I think if you have the buy-in, you get the result, you know, and I, I guess as a millennial, you know, whether that's a good thing or not, but I think if you've got personal buy-in and if you can see, you know, the end product, I think oftentimes you can get people to buy in and, and really go to work for you.

Vance Crowe [00:31:15] Well, I think you, you definitely have me already on your side when you want to take that away from the government, but giving it to a nonprofit, it's very clever. So I'm gonna give you a seven five on this Peter Teel paradox. Appreciate it. Moving on to the worthy adversary, this is where I'm gonna ask you, who is one person that you respect but strongly disagree with?

Jason Hanson [00:31:36] I struggled with this one too. Vance, you and I talked before the show here, but honestly, I'm calling out the conservation districts across the country as a 14 year veteran of the U-S-D-N-R-C-S. There are some conservation districts and the boards that, you know, work for 'em, lead 'em, some of 'em are excellent and some of 'em are not worth the taxes that are going to 'em. And I've seen both of worked with both. And when they're working well, man, they can get a lot of stuff done and they can help a lot of people and they can solve these issues locally like we're seeing, you know, in the Iowa conversation here tonight. But I tell you, there's also some that they just show up to the meetings and they're not getting stuff done. And I think as landowners, taxpayers, farmers, but anybody in the community, you have the infrastructure in every county in the country, essentially. We should be getting results outta these folks. And again, I'd like to, I, I think a worthy adversary in terms of if you're not getting a job done, let's get some folks in these positions that are, and, and I think we can do a lot of good things. And again, that local control versus federal, I think it always probably side at the local or at least, again, maybe 90% of the time. But I think there's a lot of opportunity. The infrastructure's there and, and they can, they can demand that the USDA ups their game a little bit or changes policies. I think if enough of 'em get together, they can make some things happen. So I'm calling out the conservation districts again, there's some good, there's some really bad ones I think. I think it's an important tool, again, to get things done locally.

Vance Crowe [00:33:07] Well, all right there, that's gonna be a little hard to put on the list, but we do keep a list of the worthy adversaries and if you want to go find people that are worthy of respect, but strongly disagree, they're right there. I wanna thank you for putting so much thought into it. So Jason, as we wrap up, if people wanted to learn more about you to connect with you, where would you recommend they go to do that?

Jason Hanson [00:33:32] I don't know if I could recommend the Twitter, 'cause I don't know, I probably get a little wild on there sometimes and have likes and stuff that maybe I shouldn't. But that's one way. But honestly, if somebody ever wanted to reach out, hit me up through there and I'd be happy to connect. And actually I'm kind of, you know, in a transitional part of life right now, having stepped away from the USDA, having another job job lined up that I'm currently just started, but I'm kind of looking for, for other things here too. And I wanna stay in the conservation realm, but also in the ag policy realm. And, and Vance, we talked before the show, taking a test in summer to see if I might be going back to school for a little bit too. And maybe an idea that, you know, I had dating back to my college days back in the early two thousands. Might end up going to law school if it works out. But if I fail that test, then if I fail that lsat, you know, then I'm gonna save myself a lot on tuition too. So I'm not worried about it.

Vance Crowe [00:34:20] Well, best of luck to you man. I love your ex, that's how we found you. You know, I, I thought you were tweeting some good stuff today and when I told one of my buddies that you were coming on, he was like, oh, that'll be great. And he knew all about you even though he'd never met you. So, oh, that's scary out there. So thank you Jason for coming on and we'll see you again all to wrap up the show. I want to thank you for joining me. If you would like to be a part of the ag tribes report, you can always send me stories on at Vance Crowe on x or at Vance Crowe at Vance at Legacy Interviews dot com. Also, if you're interested in having me sit down with one of your loved ones to record their life stories so that future generations can know about their childhood, what it was like when they were growing up, the challenges they face, the things that they built throughout their career, their marriage raising kids, then go to Legacy Interviews dot com and there you can schedule a call with me, I'll talk with you for 15, 30 minutes, something like that. And we'll talk about what stories are you hoping to capture, what are your parents like and what kind of options do we have that might be right for you? It has been a very busy summer, but I am always up for these calls to try and find them. And the calls that are the hardest are when people say, ah, man, I waited too long and now can we rush and get this done? We always help people out whenever they're doing that. But you wanna do this at a point where your parents or your grandparents are in a great state of mind and, and they're excited about doing and nothing's rushed.

Vance Crowe [00:35:53] So go to Legacy Interviews dot com to find out more. Also, last week, I kind of at the last minute throughout there that I've taught this class called Interest-Based Communication, which is where I combine interest based negotiating the type of negotiating that I learned in graduate school and then used over the last 15 years. And different communications techniques, like how to introduce yourself, how to tell stories more effectively, how to present your eyes ideas so that other people wanna listen to them and how to get through conflict. And I had seven people reach out just from that one mention. And so I'm gonna throw it out here. I don't know what the cost is gonna be when we do it in person, it's a thousand dollars. I don't think I'm gonna do that price, but if you are interested in being in an online class where we can learn these skills and you can develop them in a way that no other communication class does, what people tell me afterwards is that this is an incredibly practical class. People are able to use what we talk about in each lesson and immediately apply it to their lives. Then just send me an email at Vance at Legacy Interviews dot com and once we get, I don't know, maybe when we get 15 people I'll pull the class off and we'll get it all set up. So if you're interested, send me an email Vance at Legacy Interviews dot com. I will also include a link in the show notes to buy Bitcoin. As you can tell from the show, I believe that this is one way to be able to head off the the scourge that is inflation. And I believe that it makes everybody's life better when they have hard money.

Vance Crowe [00:37:29] That's gonna do it for this week's show. We'll be back next week. And as always, feel free to disagree.