Podcast Host Reviews His Most Controversial Interviews of 2021

Vance Crowe [00:00:01] Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here today. We're doing something that we only do once a year. This is the 2021 Vance Crowe Podcast year in review, which is a really pretty fun time for me. When you think about it, if you publish at least one interview a week, that ends up being 52 conversations throughout the year that push me in some different way. Now, when I set up for an interview, I oftentimes know who the guest is. Most of the guests I find on my own, they're either people I've known from my past life or they're people that I've discovered through Twitter or some other connection. But every once in a while, my executive producer, Ben Anderson says, Vance, I've got an interesting character I think you'd like. And he generally sends me some reading material and maybe some other podcast they've been on, and he's like, Hey, did you check those out? And he always wants to know, 'cause he gets excited about these things. And I have to say, when I don't choose the podcast guest, 90% of the time, I'm not looking forward to it, right? I come in there and I'm like, ah, this feels like a job. I don't know, I didn't put that together, but almost always, Ben brings me these wild and interesting characters that really livens up the entire podcast. And if I were to say one thing about this year, it is that Ben really proved his ability as an executive producer. He found guests that were totally different and really upped the bar this year in ways that had never happened before.

Vance Crowe [00:01:33] So this year, 2021 was I think by far the highest quality guests, the most interesting topics that we've ever done. Now, a little bit of a look behind the curtain during the COVID extravaganza when everything was just kicking off and all of my speaking engagements dropped off, all of a sudden I started doing episodes on COVID. They were, what is going on right now? What is happening? What are you seeing around you? How is it impacting you? And we saw an explosion in growth. This was one of those things that I as a content producer had never experienced before. This is people downloading it in the tunes of hundreds or thousands of downloads a at almost right after we put it out there because we were such on the cutting edge. But last year, as Ben and I were looking at what do we want this next year, 2021 to be like we said, do we wanna go the route where we're really hitting a button and we know, hey, we can get more listeners faster. However, the downside is almost as soon as that podcast is published, it's degrading in its quality over time because you're talking about day-to-day issues. You're talking about things that are going on right now, and in a couple of weeks it's really not that relevant. We decided that we didn't want that. We decided that the more valuable thing, the way to get higher up the graph was to avoid

Vance Crowe [00:02:59] Becoming a daily news program or a weekly roundup or finding out what hot issues are going on that won't be relevant in the future. And so that was really a guiding principle. We might find someone that is willing to talk because they're now publishing a book or they've hit the limelight in some way in social media. And so that's how they come to our attention. But our goal in these interviews is to really have deep lasting conversations, explore topics and ideas that are not being explored by other people or other outlets, and really try and let patterns emerge. Try and discover things that are going on underneath the surface that we don't really know about and often aren't being discussed because society says, oh, those aren't important, or you're not supposed to talk about those ideas. So overall, I was elated with this year, one of the things that you'll notice is we had a huge swath of people from different parts of the world. We had several people on from the uk, we had scientists, we had professors, and we also had people that are living out in the world doing real things. We had a candidate for mayor out of the city of St. Louis, who ultimately lost but really became a close friend of mine afterwards. We had a mother of a, of a farming family on there. And I'd never really done anybody that had been famous on Instagram and trying to figure out, what are you doing? Why are you doing these things? We had all sorts of interesting characters like David Lesh who gave a middle finger to the environmental slash outdoor sportswear industry, which was a really interesting thing.

Vance Crowe [00:04:39] And we also had people on like Jack Butcher and Lacy Hunt, who are well-known figures in their own rights, and really having them sit down for an hour to talk about what they see is going on with the economy and the future of technology was really an interesting thing. So without going through every single interview, what we decided this year would be the most interesting thing to do was to invite members of the Articulate Ventures network. And I think we even posted it on social media to vote on what they thought were their 2021 superlatives. So these are things like what was the most surprising episode? And we let the community vote, which we got a really great response. And it was fun because people had very different takes than what I thought they would. And it actually reminded me of some of the interesting interviews that had kind of slipped my mind. And now we're gonna go through those superlatives and we'll bring up some things that our audience, our listeners, people like you brought up to us, but then also some memories that strike up in my mind and kind of what was the backstory or some of the interesting things that went on with that. So if you are a longtime listener of the podcast, this is gonna be a great episode for you. I hope you see a lot of yourself and your own interactions and your own memory of these conversations as we're talking about it. And if you're new to the podcast, you might find this as a great way to figure out, Hey, there's a huge catalog of hundreds of interviews here. What should I go listen to first? Well, this list will be a great one to give you a review.

Vance Crowe [00:06:12] So let's start the superlatives with the viewer choice for the most surprising interview. The most surprising interview of 2021 on the Vance Crowe podcast was Lucy Thackray. Lucy was a reporter from rural Australia. Now I found Lucy because I had seen on Twitter all these videos of mice coming out of the woodwork in Australia. Somebody would lift up a pale or a bucket and all of a sudden, not just hundreds, but thousands of mice would go scattering everywhere and people were poisoning them and lighting them on fire. And it just seemed like such a jarring thing to see out in the world that I went to Twitter and said, Hey, does anybody know anybody that could talk about this issue? And Lucy's name was brought to my attention. So when I get on the call, I really don't know what to expect with this reporter. And in fact, she's sitting in a, a really nondescript room on a couch with a white background, and she starts telling us about how she's the most unlikely person ever to be doing, to be reporting on this giant mouse plague that's hitting Australia because she is deathly afraid of mice. And so we go through this long and interesting story about how she became a reporter in that way. And then we started getting the nitty gritty details about what has happened in the ecology of Australia that has made it so these mice have run rampant, the conditions with drought and floods and things that have happened that have made it possible for these mice to come up. And she told us really interesting things like that The mouse plague was so bad and so pervasive that they don't even have a written record of it being like this.

Vance Crowe [00:07:51] So they were trying to go back to aboriginal people to discover, is there anything you guys know about how to overcome this problem or how to survive this? And when I think back on that interview, I think, man, you know, no matter what, just the experience of hearing somebody talk about thousands of mice being driven over by cars or lit on fire and how you have to push back against the animal rights activists and how do you handle these problems, it was really quite right. One of the most surprising interviews of the year, and really a fantastic one that even though the mice problem I believe has gone down pretty rapidly is still worth a listen just because it's such a rare thing that's happened in society. So the 2021 Superlative most surprising podcast of the year goes to Lucy Thackray. One of the great benefits of having a podcast like this and having such an engaged audience, whether it's on Twitter or for those of you that have joined the Articulate Ventures network, is that some of the times when a term is used by a guest, it names something that we kind of all saw or we kind of all felt, but we'd never had a name for it. So it was really hard for us to talk about or really share that idea. And so this year, the 2021 Pattern language Award is gonna go to a man named David Goodhart. David is a social scientist and a writer that lives in the uk, and he coined a term called Somewhere versus Anywhere People. Now, he had talked about this in his own writing and on the BBC, but it wasn't until he came on the podcast when we really got to explore this idea about the difference between anywhere people, those that really want a cosmopolitan life, they don't care about exactly where they live because their lives are transient.

Vance Crowe [00:09:39] They can take their skills and they can apply them in Atlanta or New York or Chicago. They can live anywhere. And what they want is all of the trappings that go with being able to live anywhere, wonderful restaurants, lots of culture, whether it's museums or other places to go. And they really like that sensation of being anywhere in the world. And now this is juxtaposed against somewhere people. Somewhere people are those that oftentimes say, Hey, where I'm living might not be the most beautiful or the most culturally rich, but I'm here because I like the other people I'm around. I want to be somewhere because I fit in in this place. Oftentimes anywhere people have a high education and somewhere people don't have as much higher education. But it's not necessarily just those two things, it's that makes them in one group or the other. But it's this idea that there are people that are finding that they thought they wanted to be anywhere. They thought that they could live this cosmopolitan life, but they end up having found themselves being rootless. Whereas somewhere, people I think for many times in our culture, particularly as I was growing up, felt like they were experiencing that other people thought they were better than them 'cause they got up and they left. But when 20 years goes by and they've raised their family among people, they've known their whole lives and they have, they live in neighborhoods where kids can be free to run around and engage in ways that just can't happen in suburban America, you start to realize that the pull to being an anywhere person is not one that I think is necessarily permanent in our society.

Vance Crowe [00:11:12] And I think David Goodhart for bringing up this idea, this was an interesting interview where we were able to pull it apart and talk about some of his other concepts as well. And congratulations to David for winning the pattern language award for the Vance Crowe podcast in 2021. Longtime listeners of the podcast know that really my goal, my passion is to find up the graph ideas that is ideas that are really valuable to know but are being talked about or accepted by a very small number of people. Now, oftentimes we project that eventually these ideas will go down the graph and become a part of mass adoption. People will know them, they'll accept these ideas, they'll be well understood, and there'll be things that people just assume we always already knew. Now, I owe a debt of gratitude to a man named Jim Rutt who had heard me talk about this idea, but he said, Vance, I can't really get my arms around an idea unless you write something down. So I took an idea that I've given speeches on dozens, if not hundreds of times, and I sat down and actually wrote it all the way out. And by writing it out, it really helped me crystallize this idea of that's what the podcast is all about, searching for up the graph ideas. Now this year we had a chance to talk to some incredible scientists. We've been able to talk with people like Michael Levin and Lee Cronin, and both of those were in the running for what was the most up the graph. And the voters have spoken and they said Lee Cronin's interview where he was trying to take chemistry and figure out how to make that convert over to become biology, that these ideas were some of the most ep, the graph, and that he was willing to push the envelope and talk about things that other people don't often talk or think about.

Vance Crowe [00:12:57] Now, if you go back and listen to this interview, you will be amazed to hear Lee's experience about going to school and about being around his teachers who would try and teach him a lesson and say, you have to do the the equation this way, otherwise the answer is wrong. And Lee found himself being able to invent new ways to do things like mathematics, coming up with the same answer or the correct answer, but just doing it differently and getting scolded and really finding a hard time for his life because of the way that the situation was formed around it. Now you see Lee out on Twitter saying things that are really interesting and unorthodox and really trying to push the envelope of how can we get people to do more and interesting science, the way I came in contact with Lee Cronin was he had actually made a joke about his lab being called Pom Hub, which is actually really similar to PornHub. And he had created this logo and for whatever reason, academia really hated that idea. And so there were people calling for him to be thrown off of Twitter and for him to lose his ability to run a lab. And Lee just came out and said, look, I didn't mean to offend anybody, this is what I meant by it. This is what it was. If it offended you, I'm sorry, but I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing. And I think if you go follow Lee on Twitter, you will discover that he is every bit as Avantgarde as he was before we interviewed him, and we are so glad to count him among the ranks of 2021 superlative winners for being the most up the graph, I am certain that we will have Lee on again and most likely Michael Levin if he'll come on.

Vance Crowe [00:14:31] That was another interesting interview talking about the electricity of cells. So congratulations to Lee Cronin and we look forward to having you on again in 2022. Moving on to the next 2021 superlative, we're looking at which podcast had ideas that changed something about the way you live your life now as a podcast host, many of my guests change the way I think about things and even how I behave in the world. But there was one guest this year that really stands out among all the others as somebody that changed the way that I viewed the world, and that was Erik Hoel. He's author of a book called The Revelations, which is all about neuroscientists and a murder mystery and dreams and all of these really interesting things wrapped together. So when I had seen Erik Hoel an article that he had written called Enter the Super Sensorium, I was really kind of taken by the way he writes and the way he thinks about things that I decided I would have him on the podcast. He said, sure, I'd love to come on, but I'd like you to read my book first, which I was happy to do. And it turns out his book was phenomenal. So to back up a little bit, Erik's research, or at least some of the things that he's finding most interesting is about why is it that we dream and he plays around with some ideas. And one of the ideas that he mentions that I find so striking is that the value of dreams is that they allow your your mind to find patterns that you did not see in your conscious life. So you're walking around in the world and you're seeing all these things, but normally your brain has to say, Hey, I already understand these things.

Vance Crowe [00:16:04] You can't become completely fascinated by everything around you all the time. You wouldn't get anything done. And so oftentimes we see things in the world and we just kind of take them for granted. But Erik says that our brains, when we go to sleep, they are trying to take all of the imagery that we saw, all of the activities we did, all of the things that we encountered, and trying to match them up to new things. And they're trying to prevent the the brain from thinking that there is a pattern there that there isn't there, or breaking apart things and saying, Hey, maybe there's something here that you didn't know or understand. I find this concept to be completely enthralling. And after having spoken with Erik Hoel, and he talked about the value of dreams, I really spent most of the rest of the year trying to do things that would allow me to dream more so in the Articulate Ventures network. At one point we did a month long experiment where we tried to all get to bed on time, we didn't have to go to bed at the same time, but we just said, what a time would I have to go to bed in order to ensure that I got my seven or eight hours of sleep? I also did things like sober October, which allows you to have more dreams when you're not being inundated with substances like THC or alcohol. And then finally, just a few weeks ago, I gave up coffee or caffeine entirely, and each one of these experiences gave me a different flavor for dreams, and I found that I was able to remember my dreams, I saw them far more vibrantly, and I really feel like those dreams enabled me to spot patterns in the world that really helped me get past certain issues or certain challenges that I'd been facing.

Vance Crowe [00:17:42] So I was so excited when the viewers agreed with me that Erik Hoel had such an interesting interview that he should definitely win the award for the I the 2021 Vance Crowe Podcast Ideas that Change Something about You in the real world. So congratulations to Erik Hoel, and if you are loving to hear more about this, not only should you listen to the interview I did with Erik, but also pick up his book The Revelations. Moving on, we're gonna take a look at the most memorable podcast from 2021. Now, when we wrote up memorable, we meant what is the one that you really sticks out in your mind, you think a year, two, three years from now, you're always gonna remember that crazy character that you heard on the Vance Crowe podcast. Well, for me, the voters and I completely agreed that they said the most memorable, and it's probably the largest character that there was in the 2021 season, was of course Jim Rutt. Now, Jim Rutt is a bizarre and unique character that if you saw in a book or in a movie, you might think, no, that can't be real. Nobody really acts that way. Nobody really thinks that way. But the more time that I've spent around Jim Rutt, and it's actually been quite a few hours that we've had to spend together, you realize, no, this guy is for real, his aspirations to start a game B movement that allow people to escape the rat race of game A and try and figure out a new way to live. He actually is giving it a go and doing it in a legitimate way. So Jim is the former CEO of Network Solutions, a company that back in the late nineties I believe, controlled almost all of the IP addresses.

Vance Crowe [00:19:22] How the internet works was basically a monopoly by him. These are in his own words. And at one point he ended up selling that company for over a billion dollars. So it's very rare to be around someone that's ever made a transaction worth a billion dollars. But Jim and I sat down for an interview and we had such a great time that he invited me on his podcast where we talked about up the graph ideas. I got to explain some of the things that I worked on in the past. And then Jim and I decided we were gonna do a second podcast on the Vance Crowe podcast where we actually did it in vr. And this was a really interesting and intriguing experience. There had been only a handful of people that had ever done podcasts on VR before, but we did it in a special way. Not only did we record what it would be like if you were in the the space, we have a bar that we've built for the Articulate Ventures network where we do our book clubs in, in virtual reality. So Jim and I met there and we could see one another and we sat down and did a conversation, but we also at the same time, flipped open our cameras and were able to watch what is it like in the real world. So you can see me with my virtual reality head mask on and and Jim on with his. And we were able to put those two together so you could see what was going on in the real world and what was going on and what we now think of as the meta world. And so this is a really interesting conversation and I know

Vance Crowe [00:20:47] That Jim and I actually swapped a lot of viewers. So there are a lot of people that were Vance Crowe podcast listeners that started also listening to the Jim Rutt world because he's talking about also up the graph ideas, but in a very different way. And then I know for certain many of you that are listening right now came because as a result of me going on Jim's show, so what a wonderful opportunity to talk with an interesting character. And I know Jim and I are already working on setting up another virtual reality podcast in January, so I'm looking forward to that. But for now, Jim Rutt is the 2021 award winner for the most memorable podcast. Thanks Jim. And check out the interview and check out the Jim Rutt show. The 2021 Most talked about episode award winner is Rob Henderson. Many listeners will remember that Rob started out as a small boy in foster care and eventually worked his way all the way up to going to military school and eventually getting into Oxford where he is studying for a PhD. Now, because of that life experience, Rob has been able to see the span between what it is to live in low resource, low status hierarchy, all the way to the top. And it allows him to make some observations that most people wouldn't naturally make, but are really interesting and are something that you can talk about at length. In fact, Rob was the runner up for the pattern language award by quitting this term called Luxury beliefs, which are beliefs that can be held by people in higher status and high resources that don't really negatively impact them.

Vance Crowe [00:22:25] But if are taken on by the much larger low resource, low status people can cause all kinds of problems. Something like polyamory where people in higher status situations maybe talk about it, say that it's okay to do support it, but don't actually live it out. But people in lower class groups, if they live it out, it leads to a lot more divorce, it leads to poverty and all sorts of other challenges. And Rob makes a series of observations like this about beliefs that are held by different groups in their impacts. And really the whole conversation gives you many things to talk about with other people because it's so rich in this way of looking at the world from a different angle. So the 2021 winner of the most talked about episode this year on the Vance Crowe podcast was Rob Henderson. This year as a little bit of fun, I decided to ask viewers, what did you think was the episode that made me the most uncomfortable? And I'm not so sure when we asked the question if it was all that clear, whether it was what made me the most uncomfortable or what made the viewers most uncomfortable. But the winner of this year's award goes to Aella. Now technically, we actually did the Aella interview at the very end of December, but since we voted on superlatives last year, we didn't get to count her in. So we decided to open that up this year, and she was the overwhelming winner. Many of you will know that Aella has a career on OnlyFans, has openly done large amounts of psychedelic drugs and is open about talking about leaving her religion and even doing things like prostitution.

Vance Crowe [00:24:02] I remember when I set this interview up, I had seen Aella talking about things like philosophy and economics. I think Ben Anderson is the one that brought her to my attention, and I found her to be really interesting and quite well thought out, really articulate. And it was only later when I started thinking like, wow, what will it be like to interview a prostitute? To be someone that is close to some, somebody that is breaking social norms and morays in such a, a vibrant and overt way? Will this be negative for me? Will this make my wife unhappy? Will this make my viewers who I know oftentimes have devout faith, will they be, you know, appalled or turned off by this? And so definitely coming into this interview, I was really uncomfortable, but during the interview I found Aella to be incredibly open and insightful and caring, and she really had a lot of observations about challenges in our society that because we are so uncomfortable, we don't think about, she talked about the number of men that are never hugged or touched tenderly in any way, and what that does to the human psyche. She talks about religion and different aspects of how she grew up and what impact that had. And I have to confess, I had just had my daughter a few months before that and I was sitting in the interview wondering, how can I make sure that my daughter's fate is not the fate that you have chosen here? I really don't want that. But I have to say by the end of the interview, what I really came away with is how can you make sure that your daughter or children in general don't have to walk this perilous path, but yet can still find a way to be as open and as caring and as empathetic as Aella?

Vance Crowe [00:25:50] So while this conversation was really uncomfortable for me, it definitely opened me up to new ways of thinking ideas and got me up the graph in ways that I am deeply grateful for. And you know, I'm pretty sure in 2022 we will have Aella back on. She's continued to be an excellent person to follow on Twitter and really just a, a good person to, to stay in touch with and to, to make sure that you encounter their ideas if only just to challenge what you think you already know. So the 2021 winner of the most uncomfortable episode award goes to Aella. And now moving on to the 2021 Award winner for the most relevant episode for Current Times. And this year it is Alina Chan. Dr. Alina Chan is at the Broad Institute and she co-authored a book called Viral with Matt Ridley. Now, I had found this book to be completely enthralling. Anything Matt Ridley puts out, I'm open to reading. And longtime listeners know that we've had Matt Ridley on not once, but twice. And both times he's been a really riveting guest. But he came out with his book with Alina Chan just a few months ago, and I was first to try and put my hand up to say, Hey, I want to interview one of you guys. And Alina was available. So we sat down and did this interview. And what you discover through this interview is a profound and exciting web of stories, talking about where did COVID come from? How did it get out of a lab?

Vance Crowe [00:27:22] Why do they think there's a lab leak? And many of the other issues that don't seem to be talked about in regular culture. Now, when I interviewed Alina Chan, this was still a conspiracy theory. People came out of the woodwork to tell me that I was spreading lies and that this was not a good thing to put out into the world. But just a few short weeks since we've done this interview, Alina and Matt Ridley have been invited to speak before the the Parliament in the UK and have been on many, many other news shows talking about this hypothesis, the lab leak hypothesis and have brought it to the forefront so that it's no longer considered a taboo conspiracy theory, but actually something that Joe Biden, the president of the United States, directed his Department of Justice to look into because it is now gone beyond just a, a weird conspiracy theory to being something that has enough evidence to move it forward. So if you are interested in a thrilling conversation with a brilliant scientist, you should check out the recent episode with Alina Chan, author of the book, viral Alina Chan. Congratulations on winning the 2021 Most Culturally Relevant podcast episode. What we're rounding out the last 3 20, 21 superlatives. And the next category is the most viewed. Now, this is one that we don't let anybody vote on. This is just the one that we count up all the views on YouTube, on our different podcast apps and far and away the huge winner in the 2021 season was Economist Lacy Hunt.

Vance Crowe [00:28:56] Now, Lacy Hunt is a rare guest. He does very few interviews. In fact, almost every time I put an interview up with Lacy Hunt, there's all these comments about how did you get this oracle on here? How did you get him to come on? Fortunately, he's willing to come onto the podcast and he is always an interesting guest. I do my best just to ask him some simple questions and let him talk because that's what people are there for. And he did not disappoint this year. While I still struggle with his concepts about how all of the money being printed is not something we have to worry about in inflation, but instead we have to worry about deflation. But I have to tell you, he's so good, he's so eloquent, so articulate that I really enjoy hearing it and I'm really excited because I'm certain we'll try and have him back on again in 2022. So the award winner for the most viewed this year is Economist Lacy Hunt. And now on to the category Voted on by only me and my executive producer Ben Anderson. We had a category that we didn't think was right for asking people to vote on because it's like some feeling that we have by being the hosts and executive producer of the show. And that was, which episode is worth a second? Listen, what is one of those episodes that you could listen to one time and think, oh, that's pretty good. But by going back and listening to it a second time, you would really pull a lot more out of. And this year, Ben and I both agreed very, very deeply that the most, the episode most worthy of a second listen is with John Jennings.

Vance Crowe [00:30:29] John works at a company called the St. Louis Trust Company, which manages the wealth of extremely wealthy people. But John is an unorthodox person in this field. While he has a background in in law, and he understands accounting and finance, his real gift is that he is always searching for new ideas, new ways to understand how the human mind works, and he becomes completely obsessive about discovering things on a far deeper level than almost everyone else. I find that John Jennings and I have a lot in common, and that our conversations about things like art and what books we choose to read was a fascinating way to explore a mind, not just like mine, but one that at least operates in the same paradigm. John and I have since become friends, and I find him to be a really engaging person, but that also says things very simply, and that if you are just listening to him passively, you might not notice just how much thought has gone into these ideas. But if you sit down and listen to this episode for a second time, I am certain you will take things away from the profound mind of John Jennings that you didn't pick up the first time. So the 2021 Award winner for the podcast worth the a second listen, is my man, John Jennings. And finally, the last of the 2021 Superlatives is the award for the most profound Vance Crowe podcast episode. This award this year goes to none other than scientist, Michael Levin.

Vance Crowe [00:32:01] Dr. Levin works at Tufts University. He studies the electricity of living things. And it's really difficult for me to give an explanation for this that won't sound anything other than science fiction. But truly, Dr. Levin has done some things with living beings that could have world changing implications, including the potential ability to regenerate lost limbs the way a salamander does. Now, I won't go into all the details because it is completely worth a listen to Dr. Levin describing the way he thinks about these things and what's going on with the electricity of life. But towards the end of the interview, we start having a conversation about the future and about what it will mean if some of the work that he's putting into the world actually comes true. And we can not only regenerate limbs, but actually create entirely new beings. And he starts to talk about how the Garden of Eden will change and how we've been in this place where things were so simple. Before, if you knocked on something and it had a hollow metallic sound, then it was a robot. And if you touch something and it was soft and squishy, then it was living. But now those two worlds are merging together, and the future is going to be so different that we will look back on this current time as a time when we were in an innocent childhood where we didn't have an expectation of how different the world could be. Now, at first, this seemed shocking and actually somewhat scary to me, but to hear Dr.

Vance Crowe [00:33:32] Levin talk about this in terms of what it would allow us to do and where it could take us was truly a profound experience. So if you've not listened to any of the episodes and you want one that will really take your breath away, then I highly recommend you check out this year's 2021 superlative winner for the most profound episode with Dr. Michael Levin of Tufts University. It will take your breath away and is a really engaging and interesting way to look at the world. Well, that's gonna do it for this year's 2021 superlatives. Thanks so much for hanging out and checking this out. I hope that this list of interviews you resonate with, it's stuff that you remember, conversations that you can picture where you were when you heard them, and ideas that you found worthy of sharing with other people in your life that you love to talk about up The graph ideas with 2022 is going to be an interesting year. Right now, Ben Anderson and I are working on getting in a new studio. We've been sitting down with architects and getting everything just right, and if we can get all the paperwork signed and everything put together, we will be in a new studio during 2022. We're also really amping up the ability to do podcast interviews in virtual reality. Sometime in January, I'm gonna get on with artist Alex Dodge, who we just had on last month, and we're gonna talk about art by looking at it so you'll be able to have that experience with us of being in the space. We're also going to re-interview Michael Levin because he's such an interesting character and we have many, many other people that have great ideas that are pushing us to think about things in new ways.

Vance Crowe [00:35:12] Also, I'm going to try and do some more As the Crow flies episodes. It turns out the episode that I did about Violet, my daughter, and some of my observations in being a parent was wildly successful. I got more emails from that episode than I have on any other episode I've ever published. And it seems like you, the viewer, really enjoys that kind of deep thought about a single topic. And so I'll try and do those, but I have to say, talking straight to the camera like this feels somewhat unnatural to me, and it's actually way more fun and engaging and something that's simpler when I'm talking with a guest where I can actually be bouncing back and forth with them. But I know I should overcome this because doing those episodes requires me to think about things deeply with my own family and writing 'em out and saying them and sharing them with you gives me a chance to learn and think about things more deeply. So to wrap up, I am so grateful you're here. I'm so glad that you come and you listen every week. You check things out, you send me notes, you write me dms on Twitter, and some of you have joined the Articulate Ventures Network in 2021, the network blossomed in many interesting and intricate beautiful ways. We gained new members, new things that we've been working on, and we found a rhythm to our monthly shared experiences that has really been quite profound. In the coming year, we're hoping to add new members, and we really want these experiences and things that we're working on to be something that allows us all to learn and get better. And if you're the type of person that's loved listening to the podcast, you've loved chatting with me, you, you like having these up, the graph ideas, consider joining the Articulate Ventures Network.

Vance Crowe [00:36:54] Everyone says the same thing when they join. I've thought about it for a while, but I didn't know if I'd fit in or I didn't know if I'd have enough time. And yet, once they're there, they participate in the different activities and they start to realize that we can have a Somewhere community in a digital space, and we are all better for having participated in it. So if you're interested, go to Network dot Articulate Ventures to find out more. I hope you'll join us and no matter what, I'm looking forward to having you be a listener in 2022. Thank you so much for being here.